Nintendo faces 'path to irrelevance'

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  • MyBitches 7 Sep 2013 08:46:54 2 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23995569

    Nintendo, whose latest console has sold poorly, could be on a "path to irrelevance", the founder of legendary games company Atari has said.
  • Flying_Pig 7 Sep 2013 08:53:10 11,354 posts
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    Yeah, 'cos Atari did so well to avoid that themselves...
  • Ashleyfiddes 7 Sep 2013 09:02:11 980 posts
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    @Flying_Pig I read it he says it was different as Atari was taken apart from the inside (pretty much what he said anyway) whereas Nintendo just aren't relevant any more

    Don't think he is right as I honestly think their will always be a place for Nintendo in the console race (we would all be poorer without them) not to say they will ever be industry leaders again but I still think they will be relevant for a fair while. It is a shame they decided against straight competition to the other two but as a games company rather then an entertainment or software with gaming divisions it was always going to be difficult to follow their decisions

    Ie Microsoft can afford to sell consoles at a loss because windows covers the loss. This means they can offer more for less and get a bigger piece of the pie, same with Sony. If Nintendo tried to follow their business plans they would be in trouble alot sooner

    Edited by Ashleyfiddes at 09:04:16 07-09-2013
  • jonsaan 7 Sep 2013 09:09:57 25,439 posts
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    People always say this about Nintendo though. Always have. Yet they always under estimate their ability to ignite the industry with left field genius. Right now, it's difficult to see where that will come from but their track record suggests it will come, sooner or later.

    FCUTA!

  • Deleted user 7 September 2013 09:18:30
    How many times have Nintendo ignited the industry with left field genius?
  • sega 7 Sep 2013 09:23:13 908 posts
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    I don't think there is a place for Nintendo in the console race any more. Well, there is, but what they have this generation is not enough.

    I'd say some of my favourite games from the last generation were on the Wii. Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid Prime Trilogy (and Other M), Xenoblade etc are just a few of them. The thing is we also had third party support then. There was a lot of dumbed down ports, but it was enough. There were some great third party exclusives and lots of interesting games to try outside of Nintendo.

    I think it's a myth that people buy a Nintendo machine purely for Nintendo games. I know I'll be tempted by the new Zelda when it is announced and I'm always interested to play a new Mario game, but I can't see it being enough to invest in such a console. I don't think Nintendo will leave the hardware market, I'm not sure they should, but they've lost me this generation and it'll take more than new Marios and Zeldas to win me back.
  • jonsaan 7 Sep 2013 09:24:00 25,439 posts
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    dpad. analogue stick. motion control. NES Mario. N64 Zelda. Game and Watch. Tetris. Pokémon ffs. Gameboy. DS. I'm sure the list could go on.

    They didn't invent this stuff but they applied it to the times in a way that made you wonder how life was without it (game wise).

    For me personally they are more irrelevant than ever, but I don't discount their ability to disrupt.

    FCUTA!

  • DFawkes 7 Sep 2013 09:32:54 23,828 posts
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    I could honestly see them going handheld only in a couple of generations, but they still do so well in that market that they're not going anywhere soon. Heck, they've made so many mis-steps with managing the Wii U it's not even funny, yet they're still a profitable business.

    They are still a business, after all. They make money. For them to become truly irrelevant, they'd have to do a lot more wrong than one console that's not selling as well as they'd like. Without the 3DS and all the many bits of merchendising, I'm not so sure.

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • Blerk Moderator 7 Sep 2013 09:40:52 48,225 posts
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    I can see them going handheld only NEXT time, never mind in a couple of generations.

    It's the only thing that makes sense for them now - put a TV out on their new handheld and combine the two devices into one. They've already proven time and again that they don't have the resources to service two machines simultaneously, so make one machine and you're sorted, right?

    Surely?
  • Blerk Moderator 7 Sep 2013 09:43:09 48,225 posts
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    Of course, if they continue to lose the family market to smart phones and tablets then they're probably still fucked. :)
  • DFawkes 7 Sep 2013 09:43:43 23,828 posts
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    Goodfella wrote:
    If they carry on with crap like the 2DS they'll be out of the handheld market too.
    To be fair, it's not that bad as a business decision. They make a cheaper version for kids in the run up to Christmas. No hinge to break, no 3D for thier developing eyeballs and Pokemon is due. You may not like the design, but it's not for the likes of us. It's certainly a logical business move that could well pay off nicely. Either that or those same kids will get a 3DS, but that's still a sale :)

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • jonsaan 7 Sep 2013 09:44:05 25,439 posts
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    But the 2ds is specifically designed to appeal to someone that is not you. There is a new Pokemon game incoming and it's a tough as nails, entry level priced way to play it whilst also removing the one feature that was deemed bad for young kid's developing eyes. It's a smart move.

    As gamers, we make the mistake of thinking everying these companies do is for us personally. It's not. But that doesn't mean there's no market for it.

    FCUTA!

  • jonsaan 7 Sep 2013 09:44:40 25,439 posts
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    Or what dfawkes said...

    FCUTA!

  • Fake_Blood 7 Sep 2013 09:44:50 4,386 posts
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    If they sell these at £85 they will fly off the shelves.
  • Rhaegyr 7 Sep 2013 09:44:59 2,670 posts
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    It's very hard for me to see a company who own the rights to arguably the only 'icon' in games to be on the path to irrelevance.

    I can't imagine what a shit place the console market would be if Nintendo went handheld only...
  • Fake_Blood 7 Sep 2013 09:48:08 4,386 posts
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    That's the cool thing about kids marketing wise, every year there's new ones.
  • spazmo 7 Sep 2013 09:52:04 2,800 posts
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    Nintendo do manage to make the naysayers look stupid at times.
  • THFourteen 7 Sep 2013 09:56:58 34,270 posts
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    You had me at Wii U
  • JiveHound 7 Sep 2013 10:15:03 2,671 posts
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    Goodfella wrote:
    True but it's like a downgrade. Happy Christmas son, here's an inferior version of the handheld you already have.
    What are you on about? Why would anyone do that? It's aimed at people that didn't buy the 3ds to further their reach.

    I don't like the 2ds either aesthetically at least but it makes sense to me as a business move.

    Live: Jive Hands
    PSN: Jive_Hands

  • macmurphy 7 Sep 2013 10:33:59 999 posts
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    I already gobbed off in the Wii U thread (which is probably where this should be TBH) about Nintendo's downward spiral.

    All I would say is that yes, Nintendo will always be a second console unless they finally decide to compete with a machine that offers more than just games. But you can never say never, some crazy Nintendo Samsung partnership could come out of left field.

    Also I think there is also always a place for a gaming handheld. The idea that smartphones will eclipse them is bollocks, having got a 3DS I never touch the phone/iPad any more.

    The risk is that Microsoft or Sony come up with a successful competitor, but until they do Nintendo will do very good business.

    All I would really say is that Nintendo's refusal to adapt and their pride is costing them. The Wii was a blip in a downward trajectory of success in the home console business, but if they can ever replace their upper management (or at least their business strategy) then they have a chance.
  • Deleted user 7 September 2013 10:57:58
    Blerk wrote:
    I can see them going handheld only NEXT time, never mind in a couple of generations.

    It's the only thing that makes sense for them now - put a TV out on their new handheld and combine the two devices into one. They've already proven time and again that they don't have the resources to service two machines simultaneously, so make one machine and you're sorted, right?

    Surely?
    You see, I've always thought this idea would be a great way to go forward for them. Combined the two devices into one. The Wii u already has a whiff of the DS about it with its two screen setup.

    People can carry it around as a portable or pair it up to a TV when they are round their friends house or on holiday etc. Having more then one device would allow multiplayer. Games can be downloaded onto it via the Eshop or via a card slot for physical copies. Nintendo clearly aren't going for high end tech anymore anyway, but this would truly give people a different and unique experience.

    I feel Nintendo will have some really difficult choices ahead. Whatever happens though, I think Nintendo will never just disappear. They still have a style in their games that no-one has completely replicated on other platforms.
  • TarickStonefire 7 Sep 2013 11:06:58 3,332 posts
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    Anyone aware of the Smugness that is John "I Bum Apple" Gruber? He's been ranting for about a week solidly now that the only way Nintendo will survive is if they embrace his bum chums at Apple and start churning out shitty iOS version of Mario Kart etc.

    He's been effortlessly rebutted by a guy called Lukas Mathis on his blog ignorethecode time and time again, and he just keeps coming back with ever more deluded denials that there's any way out except the iOS way. His latest involves the assertion that no kid faced with a 3DS or iPad on the table would choose the 3DS, and cites his son as evidence.

    His son, the son of an Apple-obssessed walking bucket of Smugsick, would *never* choose anything that wasn't made by Apple, therefore ALL children would *never* choose anything that wasn't made by Apple - given the choice.

    So if you want to really get into this argument, jump on Twitter and pick a side. @gruber or @lkm.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 7 Sep 2013 11:09:44 3,332 posts
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    Goodfella wrote:
    If they carry on with crap like the 2DS they'll be out of the handheld market too.
    Others have made this point but I just want to add my voice: the 2DS is for people who don't want or can't afford or aren't a suitable user of the 3DS.

    I don't really understand why anyone has a hard time with the 2DS's existence.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • Deleted user 7 September 2013 11:13:43
    macmurphy wrote:
    I already gobbed off in the Wii U thread (which is probably where this should be TBH) about Nintendo's downward spiral.

    All I would say is that yes, Nintendo will always be a second console unless they finally decide to compete with a machine that offers more than just games. But you can never say never, some crazy Nintendo Samsung partnership could come out of left field.

    Also I think there is also always a place for a gaming handheld. The idea that smartphones will eclipse them is bollocks, having got a 3DS I never touch the phone/iPad any more.

    The risk is that Microsoft or Sony come up with a successful competitor, but until they do Nintendo will do very good business.

    All I would really say is that Nintendo's refusal to adapt and their pride is costing them. The Wii was a blip in a downward trajectory of success in the home console business, but if they can ever replace their upper management (or at least their business strategy) then they have a chance.
    You see, i dont think Nintendo get enough recognition for the wii and ds from gamers.

    I have always read, it was just a blip, fluke or luck, not actually, yeah nintendo done good, got it right this time round. They had two of the biggest gaming products ever sold on the market at the same time.

    I'm not saying nintendo should not criticised, but no one harps on about the ps3 not selling as much as the ps2. It seems pretty much an exclusive thing to nintendo, everything they do gets over analysed to the point of sillyness. For me they have an awkward narrative around them - they always have, but i think it starting to damage them as a company now.

    From the article, not sure if this is a typo: "I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore," he told the BBC. "Not when you have an iPod or an Android microtablet".

    But i think that sums it all up. An Ipod? He doesn't even know the market himself, and the fact the 3DS is selling well, proves handhelds are still around for a while.

    I think the observations about making a tv/handheld thing, kind of makes sense actually. its whether they can get a powerful enough handheld in a small package, and it looks good on the tv, and i guess they could release a dongle thing that streams games to the tv as well as the pad can stream games from the tv with the wii u.
  • Deleted user 7 September 2013 11:14:07
    No thanks lol. iOS really isn't as great as people think. Especially now. The shop has become flooded with games etc. It's almost impossible to filter through the good from the bad. While its true Smartphones have taken a part of the market, I really don't think it's in danger of completely destroying the handheld market like some say.
  • PenguinJim 7 Sep 2013 11:18:05 5,957 posts
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    Sure, but while a lot of people will still want a dedicated gaming handheld, there will also be a lot of people that can make do with their smartphone now. The kids-in-the-back-of-the-car cliché - just pass your phone back to them (with the appropriate parental locks!) to entertain them for an hour or two, instead of spending £200 on a new machine and some games.

    While the people who want a dedicated games device will always be there, their number might be too small to keep the market sustainable.
  • Cappy 7 Sep 2013 11:35:02 12,097 posts
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    I don't think I'd care if I never played another Nintendo game again, so as far as I'm concerned they already got off the path to destination irrelevance.

    I suspect that with each passing year more and more former Nintendo fans feel the same way.
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