Need some help with an application as was fired from my last job. Page 2

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  • FWB 14 Feb 2013 19:16:00 44,268 posts
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    Suspended with pay? I would start clicking everyone in.
  • superdelphinus 14 Feb 2013 19:17:36 8,050 posts
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    Its not quite correct that an employer can't give a bad reference. They are able to simply state fact, just not opinion on that fact
  • Stranded87 14 Feb 2013 19:37:43 890 posts
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    Jesus christ, late forms, and for being even one minute late. While you absolutely should have been on time that is retarded. I've only had a few jobs but even the very worst of them (also a call centre) wasn't quite that strict, it's like being treated like a child.

    I am never late for work, except once or twice due to major train delays etc, but even so I'd be inclined to resent any employer that had that kind of policy- not to their face of course, we all need a paycheck.

    Edit: If you want to stay close to the truth then maybe say you were fired for being one minute late 3 times in 3 months. Obviously it still doesn't look good, but it's surely better than gross misconduct. And some (probably not many) employers may even agree with my stance that that's a little ridiculous.

    Edited by Stranded87 at 19:44:09 14-02-2013
  • skuzzbag 14 Feb 2013 19:58:24 5,638 posts
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    I would seek advice from a solicitor or the CAB as this is something that could dog you for years. Employers see it as fraud.
  • SBfistfun 14 Feb 2013 20:56:31 124 posts
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    Stranded87 wrote:
    Jesus christ, late forms, and for being even one minute late. While you absolutely should have been on time that is retarded. I've only had a few jobs but even the very worst of them (also a call centre) wasn't quite that strict, it's like being treated like a child.

    I am never late for work, except once or twice due to major train delays etc, but even so I'd be inclined to resent any employer that had that kind of policy- not to their face of course, we all need a paycheck.

    Edit: If you want to stay close to the truth then maybe say you were fired for being one minute late 3 times in 3 months. Obviously it still doesn't look good, but it's surely better than gross misconduct. And some (probably not many) employers may even agree with my stance that that's a little ridiculous.
    Me agree.
    Good luck anyway.
  • pacrifice 14 Feb 2013 22:48:05 1,072 posts
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    So, "terminated due to being two minutes late, twice within a three month period"...?

    Then maybe if it gets to an interview stage and they inquire, I'll explain as to what happened that, i asked a friend to sign in as I was entering the building...

    God, no one's ever gonna hire me.
  • beastmaster 14 Feb 2013 22:59:32 11,330 posts
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    It's illegal for them to give you a bad reference. If you got caught sacked for nicking stuff and got caughr red handed they still can't give you a bad reference.Like people say, worst they can do is confirm the time you worked there. You can sue if someone gives you a bad reference and you don't get a job because of it.

    You can just say you had a personality clash with a new manager or you got bored and wanted to move on. If they ever question you about it later, you can say your leaving did not go down well.

    I was told this illegal reference thing by a consultant employed by Jobseekers specifically aimed at professional people.

    It may seem like hell

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • beastmaster 14 Feb 2013 23:01:11 11,330 posts
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    now but you'll get a job and eventually forget this.

    Damn fucking phone!

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • Deleted user 14 February 2013 23:03:25
    The bad reference thing doesn't matter. If he lies on his CV about the reasons for firing, but includes them as a reference, they can legally state the exact reasons why they fired him. As it was said above, they can report fact, but not opinion (which would basically be libel). So they can't say "he's really lazy and doesn't ever show up on time" but they can say "we fired him for gross misconduct after he was caught trying to defraud the timeclocks".

    Edited by meme at 23:04:19 14-02-2013
  • TVoJ 14 Feb 2013 23:22:07 1,860 posts
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    Whatever you decide to do, just remember that even if you get busted in an interview, fuck it! You'll be no worse off if you have a bad interview, just a blip on the employment highway of life. Just move on to the next interview and try not to fall into the same trap.

    Don't be haunted by the past, it's done. Keep on trucking.
    Apply for everything you fancy and just go for it! You seem to have a great regime and obviously don't lack motivation so I really don't think it'll be long until you get something.

    Good hunting Sir

    Edited by TVoJ at 23:22:45 14-02-2013
  • Chopsen 14 Feb 2013 23:23:07 15,871 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    Indeed you can't give a bad ref. the least you can do is confirm the person worked there. That's it.
    You can give a bad ref. You can ring up as a referee unpromted and say don't employ this person.

    But, if the candidate doesn't get the job, they can ask you to justify that in court by suing you.
  • graysonavich 14 Feb 2013 23:24:30 7,320 posts
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    pacrifice wrote:
    I've googled and the net says to be honest
    Sage advice.
  • mrpon 14 Feb 2013 23:25:02 28,765 posts
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    Were they as stringent with lunch/toilet/fag breaks pacrifice?

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • Moot_Point 14 Feb 2013 23:41:13 3,983 posts
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    Whatever you do, do not lie. If the new employer finds out you have lied, you could get fired for that too. So yes try to be as honest as possible.

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • Deleted user 14 February 2013 23:41:59
    Chopsen wrote:
    But, if the candidate doesn't get the job, they can ask you to justify that in court by suing you.
    The problem is, he can't even really do that. His case would literally be "I lied on my CV and they told the truth when asked". He's better off just leaving them off the reference list entirely. Although that in itself will raise questions.

    In short: You'll look bad no matter what you do.
  • Deleted user 14 February 2013 23:46:23
    On another tale of ridiculous time-keeping bureaucracy, I was once put on review when I worked for Safeway when I was 16 (when they still existed). I was told that, even though I was well within limits for my sick-days, I had too many that were clustered around Fridays and Saturdays, and I'd been flagged by the system as potentially pulling sickies.

    All well and good, except for the fact I only ever worked Fridays and Saturdays, so literally couldn't have had any other days off sick. Mongs.
  • Salaman 14 Feb 2013 23:46:45 18,959 posts
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    pacrifice wrote:
    So, "terminated due to being two minutes late, twice within a three month period"...?

    Then maybe if it gets to an interview stage and they inquire, I'll explain as to what happened that, i asked a friend to sign in as I was entering the building...

    God, no one's ever gonna hire me.
    No, you left because you needed a new challenge or you were made redundant. Then when it gets to an interview, you can explain that you were on the redundancy list because you were late 2 minutes 2 months prior to the redundancy round or that the straw that broke the camels back was how being two minutes late three months apart effectively meant you had to fear for your job.
    No mention of any gross misconduct, that friend that clocked you in doesn't exist until after you sign a new contract somewhere.
  • L0cky 14 Feb 2013 23:49:18 1,521 posts
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    I would tell half the truth and leave the rest out. Say you were 1 minute late on 3 occasions.

    If they kick up a fuss then you wouldn't want to work there anyway.

    Man the fuck up when you go to an interview. You're not just a candidate for them, they are a candidate for you.

    The more people do this, the less employers will take the piss; and most employers will actually be impressed if they see you are also evaluating them.

    Unless it's a job at McDonalds; in which case they already know you're a student, or broke, or a fucktard. Show you have half a brain and the manager will show you the door because he'll be worried you're going to take his job.
  • bladdard 15 Feb 2013 00:06:14 933 posts
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    Don't "man the fuck up". If you go into an interview and start acting like you're doing them a favour with 50 other candidates you'll be one of the 49 unlucky ones. You can only be confident to the point of arrogance if you've 15 years experience and you know you're the best man for the job and they know it too.
  • Deleted user 15 February 2013 00:07:48
    Yeah, bit hard to take that particular attitude with an 8% unemployment rate and a ridiculously competitive job market.
  • SparkyMarky81 15 Feb 2013 00:20:18 565 posts
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    I would lie.

    As an HR person myself I very rarely come across references that contain any information other than length of service, and job title. It is standard policy at most companies I have worked for. The exception tends to be smaller employers, where line managers are allowed to respond to reference requests. In larger companies, they are usually handled by HR, and are standardised.

    Do you know anyone else who worked at your ex-employer and left who might know what kind of references they give?
  • Youthist 15 Feb 2013 00:36:38 10,010 posts
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    If they got you out over that timekeeping rule, I say there was more to it and they went looking for a technicality to get you out of there.

    PS do not listen to the "man the fuck up" advice. Absolute bollocks.

    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that

  • El_MUERkO 15 Feb 2013 00:45:32 16,975 posts
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    Get a Friend to request a reference from the company that sacked you. If they mention anything negative then remove them from your C.V.
  • L0cky 15 Feb 2013 00:50:38 1,521 posts
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    bladdard wrote:
    Don't "man the fuck up". If you go into an interview and start acting like you're doing them a favour with 50 other candidates you'll be one of the 49 unlucky ones. You can only be confident to the point of arrogance if you've 15 years experience and you know you're the best man for the job and they know it too.
    As an employee I've attended about 20 interviews over the last 16 years and got offered the job on all of them; I turned down about 5 of those. Everything from a dish washer; a crew member at McDonalds (which was actually one of my most enjoyable jobs!); up to a CTO, and everything in between.

    I'm not an overly confident type, and I don't think I've ever come across as arrogant but I think my belief that employment is a partnership and not a master/slave relationship played a large part in that success rate.

    You're wrong, when you go to an interview you are doing them a favour; no matter how many other candidates there are - they're not holding interviews just for the fun of it. At the same time they are doing you a favour by seeing you, and you should be grateful for that.

    As an employer I don't hire people who come with their hat in their hands, all "yes sir, no sir" because they usually turn out to be incompetent; and that's the impression that they are giving. If a prospective employee is honest about their abilities; asks questions that evaluate us and they take the job, I'm more confident that I'll get commitment from them.

    There's a large difference between arrogance and having self respect; the latter will help you in spades in an interview, no matter what the job is.
  • pacrifice 15 Feb 2013 15:11:40 1,072 posts
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    "As I was approaching the building, I asked a friend to sign me in. It was deemed as a conduct issue and lead to me having to leave the business".

    I'm just gonna tell the truth and yeah, maybe they'll reject.

    I was raised a muslim, I don't follow Islam anymore, but I do believe in God. I think maybe it's all God's plan. I reap what I sow. Maybe in time, God will show mercy. Maybe there'll be one after a hundred rejections, just one person will be open to giving me a chance.

    I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna carry on, keep the faith, pray for better days.
  • Roddles 15 Feb 2013 15:17:34 1,839 posts
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    pacrifice wrote:
    I was raised a muslim, I don't follow Islam anymore, but I do believe in God. I think maybe it's all God's plan. I reap what I sow. Maybe in time, God will show mercy. Maybe there'll be one after a hundred rejections, just one person will be open to giving me a chance.

    I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna carry on, keep the faith, pray for better days.
    So you've wasted all our time, great! Cloud alien will protect you!
  • Bremenacht 15 Feb 2013 15:18:10 17,810 posts
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    Follow the advice you've been given above: tell the part of the truth you need to, and hope for the best. Make up for everything else by not being tardy again.
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