Childlessness Page 2

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  • Deleted user 31 December 2012 16:02:17
    kalel wrote:
    meme wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Also the whole "I don't want to change nappies and get up in the night" thing is really overstated. It's nothing.
    Bearing in mind I still retch and heave after scooping out the cat's litterbox every other day for over a year, the thought of dealing hands-on (perhaps literally) with human shit a couple of times a day for several years doesn't inspire much confidence in my coping abilities there.
    Do you manage to wipe your own arse? If so you'd be fine. Somehow when it's your own kid, it's magically ok. Believe me, I was worried about that one.
    That's fair enough, but still. You'd think they'd toilet train easier. Kittens know what a litterbox is for after about two days of being alive. You'd think with our advanced brains we'd be able to not shit ourselves regularly past the age of two. Mowgli excepted.

    If I have kids, if they're not walking and talking by day five then the entire thing would be a disaster.
  • Psychotext 31 Dec 2012 16:04:03 54,196 posts
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    Graveland wrote:
    One thing that I have noticed though is how many childless couples have a pet (usually a dog) and lavish it with affection as though it was a child - often going so far as to referring to their pets as "boys" or "girls" and themselves as "mum" or "dad".
    You know some freaky fuckers.
  • Maturin 31 Dec 2012 16:06:12 2,995 posts
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    I never wanted to be a dad. I don't like other people's children - though that's probably down to shitty parenting than the kids themselves.

    But I have three children. Why? Because I married two women (not at the same time obviously) that did want children.

    I love my children and I'm very proud of them. I mostly like being a dad. Like it more than working full time that's for sure, and so am a full time dad while wifey works full time.

    Being a parent is damn hard. The hardest thing I've ever done. It is relentless and draining. And there are several times every day I think I may have been happier just being on my own - especially as I'm an introvert. But then my youngest son - aged three - will give me a cuddle. And I can't think of anything I'd rather be than a dad.

    I completely understand the OP. If I'd married someone who didn't want kids I would have said okay, no kids then. It wouldn't have caused me any pain or problems at all. My life didn't go that way, but I totally get why people could happily live without being a parent - because I could have too.
  • MMMarmite 31 Dec 2012 16:06:23 1,036 posts
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    EndlessSolitude wrote:
    Life is suffering: it's downright sadistic to create more of it.
    This, also you'll add to the growing population trying to live off finite resources problem.

    New years resolution: Happy thoughts... ;)
  • FWB 31 Dec 2012 16:08:18 44,573 posts
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    Reckon 31 and 28 is far to early to rule them out entirely. Don't get the snip. You may never have kids, and that's cool, but never burn your bridges if you don't have to.
  • Deleted user 31 December 2012 16:15:48
    Maturin wrote:
    Being a parent is damn hard. The hardest thing I've ever done. It is relentless and draining.
    This is a key part to me, mostly because I am very, very lazy.

    Incidentally, what I mean by selfishness is stuff like what just happened to Rhythm in the boardgames thread. I enjoy my social life as it is, and it already gets messed around enough by other people's kids (most of our friends are couples with kids). That does seem like it would be fundamentally selfish to a lot of people - that a large part of not wanting kids is because I enjoy my freedom, and enjoy being able to do what I want, when I want, without having to plan things days or weeks in advance and still running a high risk of it falling apart anyway.

    With regards to getting the snip as well, the idea I had was to put some of my swimmers into cold storage or something, just in case. Though I know it's not exactly foolproof. But the idea of not having to use any sort of birth control is an exceptionally appealing one.
  • captbirdseye 31 Dec 2012 16:16:38 4,978 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Graveland wrote:
    One thing that I have noticed though is how many childless couples have a pet (usually a dog) and lavish it with affection as though it was a child - often going so far as to referring to their pets as "boys" or "girls" and themselves as "mum" or "dad".
    You know some freaky fuckers.
    You should see San Francisco for this totaly crazy.
  • Spong 31 Dec 2012 16:18:35 525 posts
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    neilka wrote:
    Fuck kids
    A mantra I believe Jimmy Savile secretly lived his life by.
  • kinky_mong 31 Dec 2012 16:20:44 10,286 posts
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    Don't have them.

    Just think, if you don't have a kid you can drive a humvee while spraying aerosols out the window for a full year and not do a tiny fraction of damage to the planet that contributing one more crying, shitting person does to it.

    All the eurogamers who actually play with each other on xbl rather than just post pseudointellectual pc handwringing bollocks on the forums, love the shit out of biggy.

  • TheSaint 31 Dec 2012 16:27:59 14,386 posts
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    31 & 30 here and we have no desire for kids either. Most of our friends have them and if anything that has put us off even more.
  • ResidentKnievel 31 Dec 2012 16:30:19 6,197 posts
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    I agree, they should get a Humvee and a year#s supply of hair spray

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • elstoof 31 Dec 2012 16:34:13 7,330 posts
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    I was never particularly interested in kids until mine, and I still don't much care for having someone else's kids around me. Love my little girl to pieces though, it really can't be explained what it feels like to look at your child and the feeling doesn't go away. Piss, vomit and shit just is a total non issue, I was worried about that quite a bit.

    You might not be into the idea of looking after a baby for a few years but what about the thought of a grown up person down the line in your image, who you've watched grow and helped to get where they are? They could be a really interesting person to know in 20 odd years time. One thing I've been thinking of lately, my wife and I are down to one parent each - what do you do if the unimaginable happens, it'll be just you left.

    Might be wishing you knocked out a spare or two eh.
  • Bremenacht 31 Dec 2012 16:39:44 18,242 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Maturin wrote:
    Being a parent is damn hard. The hardest thing I've ever done. It is relentless and draining.
    This is a key part to me, mostly because I am very, very lazy.

    Incidentally, what I mean by selfishness is stuff like what just happened to Rhythm in the boardgames thread. I enjoy my social life as it is, and it already gets messed around enough by other people's kids (most of our friends are couples with kids). That does seem like it would be fundamentally selfish to a lot of people - that a large part of not wanting kids is because I enjoy my freedom, and enjoy being able to do what I want, when I want, without having to plan things days or weeks in advance and still running a high risk of it falling apart anyway.

    With regards to getting the snip as well, the idea I had was to put some of my swimmers into cold storage or something, just in case. Though I know it's not exactly foolproof. But the idea of not having to use any sort of birth control is an exceptionally appealing one.
    You may grow bored of your social life, your career, your personal pursuits. Freedom to do anything may end up as freedom to do not an awful lot because you CBA a lot of the time. Kids bring some interesting chaos into your life and bugger-up all your previously held values - often in a good way. Your perspective on life -and what matters most to you in life- inevitably changes. Changes for the better, in my experience. I'm probably outwardly a lot more boring and sensible for having kids, but it doesn't bother me.

    What price your personal freedom, I suppose.
  • FWB 31 Dec 2012 16:45:06 44,573 posts
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    Not every parent is a selfish dick who feels the world should revolve around them and their little farts.

    And your freedom does not go forever. Yes, the next 15 years will be heavy, but kids become adults. They go off and do their own thing.
  • dr_swin 31 Dec 2012 16:54:42 4,890 posts
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    I love that quote.

    "kids are like farts - you can only really appreciate your own"

    I would echo what Kalel said about you not having to decide yet. You've only been married a short while. Give it a few years and you might welcome a new challenge or someone else to add a bit of variety into your life.

    Also, you just can't beat that feeling of being so loved and so important to someone else.

    Also, stop using the term 'birth control' it is a sickening Americanism and it has no place here. 'Contraception' is the word you were looking for. ;)
  • guts 31 Dec 2012 16:55:58 1,690 posts
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    I'm 37 and was 25 when my little Em came about. It was unplanned but I was, and still am, in a loving relationship (now married) and we had already been together a few years at the time. We were never massively social people so it never disrupted our lives a great deal. Less eating out and cinema visits an had to knock going to motor racing events on the head a bit but other than that it has all been good. Although as they get older you get more and more of your'own life' back. It never seemed like a sacrifice and although she was unplanned we were never gutted about it. We were engaged at the time so it just meant putting off the wedding for a couple of years because of money and Em was our bridesmaid so all was good.
    One of my mates had a very shitty childhood and was a typica; 'kid from the wrong side of town'. I have known him since we were at secondary school, and he has always been so against having kids because of the unlucky way his child hood developed. He now has a lovely 4 yo son (planned) and he would not change his life for the world.
    I also know people older than me that love being single and childless. At the end of the day, everyone is different, wants different things from life and are attracted to different people. It looks like you and your good lady are fine at the moment but I would say it might be foolish to completely rule things out just in case you have some sort of epithany or life changing experience and you decide that you do want little puke monsters after all.

    Whassamattayou, whyoulookasosad, itsanicaplace, itsanotsobad, heyshaddupayourface.

  • ZuluHero 31 Dec 2012 17:00:18 4,147 posts
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    I have one, but I wouldn't have anymore. I love her to bits but I think some people just aren't cut out to have children.

    I'm having my tubes done soon, and even though I already had one child I had to argue my case pretty strongly because of my age (34). If you do go for the big V, be ready for lots of questions, especially because of your age.

    By the way, I have one child for sale ;)
  • Maturin 31 Dec 2012 17:14:58 2,995 posts
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    All joking aside the whole loss of freedom thing can be massively overstated.

    I was a lone parent with newborn twins and managed to hold down my job - working at home as a website editor - while looking after the babies. Okay it was knackering on my own, but not many people look after twins on their own.

    I still managed to get enough free time when they were babies - thanks to friends who would babysit in the evening - to go out, meet, date and ultimately marry my second wife.

    Once married and still living in London we often got evenings out thanks to babysitters. And now we live in Dorset the in-laws are happy to watch our telly for an evening instead of their own while wife and I go out.

    Yes babies need attention regularly round the clock. Those first few months are mental. But unless you're unlucky after a few months they'll be sleeping 12 hours a day. Babysitters can watch your telly uninterrupted by children and you can go out for an evening.

    My twins are now nearly six and our youngest is three and a half. Unless they are ill they go to bed before seven and sleep for nearly 12 hours. That leaves the evenings very free. My wife works plenty of evenings, I find myself with so much free time now, though not always time I can necessarily go out. But that's my own choice - I don't bother with babysitters unless wife and I want to go out together. But I could easily arrange to go out.

    My twins are at school five days a week. My youngest at pre-school three mornings a week. There's loads of daytime freedom for me there too.

    I have never been in the situation where I was a parent of just one child but I reckon it's probably a complete doss. :)
  • psychokitten Moderator 31 Dec 2012 17:16:34 7,794 posts
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    Urgh. Kids.
  • riz23 31 Dec 2012 17:39:56 1,289 posts
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    There are a lot of sensible comments in this thread. Especially Kalel I feel. Each to their own, you are entitled to live your life, your way. There is nothing to feel guilty about if you remain childless. There are too many people on the planet anyway.

    However the OP is too young to make that decision now, as is his partner. She may be the one who comes to see things differently when her biological clock starts to tick down. Then again there are always exceptions to the rule (see above poster perhaps?). Men are lucky in that they can knock one out pretty much up to the day they die.

    Having kids can give your life a new focus when the lure of travel, adventure, socialising and material luxuries seem a bit jaded and meaningless. Yes, that can happen!
    So don't feel bad about not wanting to, but don't make any drastic decisions yet.

    Edited by riz23 at 17:41:07 31-12-2012
  • neilka 31 Dec 2012 17:41:27 15,919 posts
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    I'll cut your balls off for a fiver Gremmi

    A map is like comparing velocity and speed.

  • elstoof 31 Dec 2012 17:43:50 7,330 posts
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    riz23 wrote:
    There are too many people on the planet anyway.
    I've never understood this statement. Has there ever been an optimum number?
  • Tonka 31 Dec 2012 17:46:08 20,415 posts
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    I think it's great that people nowadays can choose not to have children and I think it is very important that if you are not 100% sure whether or not to get one you don't.

    There is no shortage of either children nor unwanted ones. No need to make more in either category.

    Just promise me you won't think less of your friends that do get children when they start preferring afternoon home get togethers over nights on the town.

    I feel there's a lack of understanding in both camps where the ones with children usually end up feeling boring.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • riz23 31 Dec 2012 17:47:11 1,289 posts
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    @elstoof I think there probably is a figure based upon economics, agriculture blah blah but I wouldn't know what it is. The planet is over populated for sure. Have you ever been to India?

    Edit: I hope that doesn't make me sound racist! Substitute India for Oxford Street if you must.

    Edited by riz23 at 17:48:59 31-12-2012
  • elstoof 31 Dec 2012 17:52:32 7,330 posts
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    Densely populated areas are densely populated shocker. You can fit every person on the planet on the Isle of Wight if you wanted to, giving them a 30cm radius of space. Perhaps there's not enough people when you look at all the leftover space in that experiment b
  • Luckyjim 31 Dec 2012 17:53:33 2,873 posts
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    elstoof wrote:
    riz23 wrote:
    There are too many people on the planet anyway.
    I've never understood this statement. Has there ever been an optimum number?
    Depends if you're a Malthusian.
  • RabidChild 31 Dec 2012 17:55:15 2,292 posts
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    Loads of my friends have decided against having kids. There are already too many people anyway, so good. We need a good apocalyptic event to sort things out, say I.
  • docrob 31 Dec 2012 18:00:23 289 posts
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    I very, very much doubt you would manage to persuade a surgeon to do a vasectomy on you if you're only 31 and childless. However convinced you may be that you don't want kids, sterilisation (male or female) is supposed to be final (it can be reversed but you're not guaranteed to be fertile) and they are likely to take the view that there's too great a chance you might change your mind in future.
  • mrpon 31 Dec 2012 18:04:20 28,913 posts
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    I smell four kinds of shit daily. Cat is by far the worst.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

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