Unpopular gaming opinions Page 112

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  • Mola_Ram 16 Aug 2013 02:15:41 7,770 posts
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    Most Japanese people I know don't talk like anime characters. Particularly not the squeaky-voiced ones.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 16 Aug 2013 02:19:25 11,413 posts
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    And I'm not saying that they do.

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • Mola_Ram 16 Aug 2013 02:31:48 7,770 posts
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    Ah.

    I disliked Tales of Vesperia, but only partly because of Estelle. The voice acting was alright, although I think there was less of it than in the Japanese version.

    But, generally, I think most games would be better off with less voice acting. Not because I don't like the idea of voice acting, but because little or none at all is better than a half-assed effort.

    I guess developers are trying to save money by getting a few people to do many voices for, say, Skyrim. But these people aren't exactly Dan Castellaneta.
  • PazJohnMitch 16 Aug 2013 03:44:16 8,411 posts
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    sajasanman wrote:
    oh ye and xenoblades was good too.
    Apart from Shulk! Reyes was also a bit iffy.

    Dunban was usually excellent though.

    The main problem however appears that the voices tracks were recorded independantly. So even if a delivery is good it does not match up with the person they are talking to.

    Getting all the actors in the same room would have improved the acting a lot.
  • PazJohnMitch 16 Aug 2013 04:50:24 8,411 posts
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    Obviously Telepathic.Geometry is the expert here on Japanese to English.

    I know nothing of the Japanese language but I do know a small bit of Chinese which has similar routes.

    The Chinese use many more words to describe something when we use only one or two. A simple example is something like 'beef' the Chinese say 'Cow meet'.

    Expanding this to something like a 'beef burger' it then becomes 'grilled, minced, cow offal meet'. You often see things like this on Chinese menus when something like google translate has been used to create the English translation.

    This extension does not just apply to nouns it also applies to verbs and adjectives. The Chinese can sometimes require 3 words in a sentence to say something we only use one for. In English 2 of those words appear redundant but all 3 are required in Chinese or it does not make sense.

    Something like 'big', 'round' and 'fat' may be required to say someone is of above average girth. (Note this is not actually a true example and has been fabricated for example purposes. My Chinese is not good enough to give a real example).

    This means that although everything is reasonably logical it is rather long winded and to do a decent translation requires very good knowledge of both languages. Going between Asian and European languages is much, much harder than going between two European ones.
  • Mola_Ram 16 Aug 2013 05:21:12 7,770 posts
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    Well, I've studied Japanese for years, and while I agree that there are some nuances that won't completely translate across languages, a good translation will keep them minimal. That's why translating and interpreting is such a specialised area, separate from mere language learning.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 16 Aug 2013 05:33:12 11,413 posts
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    That's pretty interesting Paz. I heard from a few of my ex-chinese students that they have some Chinese straight into English expressions that they sometimes use for fun, like "Give you colour see see!" ^_^ Oh, and I'm no expert.

    The biggest problem for me when translating from Japanese to English is that in Japanese, so much is left unsaid.

    Just from a linguistic point of view, the subject is rarely stated explicitly, the gender too sometimes, and even the verb is often left out. You get it in English too, like say if zombies were coming and I screamed "Paz! The door!", it could mean close the door, look at the door, get away from the door, but in Japanese, I find that this sort of thing is much more common.

    There's also the cultural element. I have met so many Japanese people who are unwilling to give a straight/honest answer to even the simplest of questions. And I've become that way myself a bit. If someone asks me if I like whiskey, (and I'm just using this as an abstract example), I'm considering the angles "Oh my God, are they planning to give me whiskey for my birthday?", or "Maybe they want me to come to a whiskey refinery on a tour with them" or "Maybe they hate alcohol/alcoholics" or "maybe they think all Irish like whiskey and if I say yes, I'll be reinforcing the stereotype"...

    I used to just say "No!", but then you'll end up ruffling someone's feathers because people here are very sensitive. That's why I have to tread so carefully all the time, not because of me, because of everyone around me. I don't make small-talk in the elevator any more because people have really fucking weird and negative reactions, for example, ignoring me, laughing hysterically, shaking (I am not joking), getting startled, pretending not to hear me because they're using their phone...

    Anyway, sorry for going off on what must seem like a very racist rant there. I really do love Japanese people, but I feel like I've been here long enough to criticise these obvious failings in Japanese culture. I have faith that the younger generation will eventually turn things around once the bubble bosses start dying. Not much mind, but I do have faith...

    And for the record, I like voice acting in RPGs if it's done well and sparingly.

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • Telepathic.Geometry 16 Aug 2013 05:42:09 11,413 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:Well, I've studied Japanese for years, and while I agree that there are some nuances that won't completely translate across languages, a good translation will keep them minimal. That's why translating and interpreting is such a specialised area, separate from mere language learning.
    I think that if you can talk to the person you're translating for and ask them to directly tell you what they are trying to say and what they are trying to leave unsaid, this could be true.

    But usually, this is not the case, and you aren't given the time or the resources (but mostly time) to give something the translation that it deserves. Throw in other restrictions like the Japanese subtitle character limit and you are pretty much guaranteed a shitty translation. Have you ever read the Japanese subtitles in the cinema in Japan? They are fucking brutal...

    Edited by Telepathic.Geometry at 06:08:37 16-08-2013

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • Mola_Ram 16 Aug 2013 05:58:52 7,770 posts
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    Yeah, the English subtitles are pretty poor there, but then I don't think there's a huge market for English subtitles.

    A lot of it seems to be done by people who don't have enough range of expression (in one language or the other) to capture the nuance. They might be fluent enough, but professional translators need more than that.

    At any rate, I do actually agree with what you are saying. There are some things that don't translate. But in other cases, things that aren't translated well *could* be, if someone was good enough. Without access to the author it is trickier - see: translations of ancient Greek - but far from impossible.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 16 Aug 2013 06:11:41 11,413 posts
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    Sorry man, I meant Japanese subtitles. I edited my comment...

    Actually, I've never seen English subtitles in Japan, didn't even know they existed. Complete tangent here, but I have come to love and respect whatever mad bastard decided to translate Naruto's "-ttebayo" as "Believe it!" I don't think it's a very good translation in one sense, but in another, it's kinda genius. ^-^

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • A_FAN 16 Aug 2013 10:48:50 3 posts
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    mentioning how much you want a shenue 3 in every thread does not impress anyone.
  • rivuzu 16 Aug 2013 18:21:25 2,271 posts
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    I want more games like Asuras Wrath. Stupidly fun, energetic, with a daft yet enjoyable storyline and I didn't mind the QTE's at all because of the art style made them... fun.
  • PazJohnMitch 17 Aug 2013 04:27:11 8,411 posts
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    Pretty much agree with rivuzu. A bit of daftness can be very welcome in a sea of identikit grey shooters.

    I got into gaming for adventure and escapism not based on some weird gun fetish most Americans seem to have.

    I want to do things in games that are impossible in the real world. Not just things that I cannot do but things nobody can.

    I think the desire to be realistic has had a huge detrimental effect on the games industry. Unique and interesting ideas are been squashed because they are not realistic.

    Edited by PazJohnMitch at 14:05:51 20-08-2013
  • Deleted user 20 August 2013 10:23:25
    Bayonetta and Vanquish - both just average.
  • spamdangled 20 Aug 2013 11:34:34 27,417 posts
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    @PazJohnMitch

    Is this just the logical outcome of China and the East being largely insular for most of their history though? The reason English has so many synonyms and things is mainly through a history of cultural and language mix.

    Could explain why easterners often come across as pretty blunt and rude in their language if it's just a reflection of the language shaping a more literal mindset through linguistics.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • spamdangled 20 Aug 2013 11:36:07 27,417 posts
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    Alipan wrote:
    Bayonetta and Vanquish - both just average.
    I like Bayonetta. I'm utterly shit at it, but I can see a mile off that it reeks of depth.

    Vanquish on the other hand... played it for half an hour and turned it off in disgust. Might have had a lot to do with the utterly generic presentation though.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • PazJohnMitch 20 Aug 2013 14:33:37 8,411 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    @PazJohnMitch

    Is this just the logical outcome of China and the East being largely insular for most of their history though? The reason English has so many synonyms and things is mainly through a history of cultural and language mix.

    Could explain why easterners often come across as pretty blunt and rude in their language if it's just a reflection of the language shaping a more literal mindset through linguistics.
    I think many Chinese people come across as rude because they are. (Particulary the men). This is certainly not all of the Chinese people but there are a high number of assholes here.

    Things that Chinese people do that I find rude:
    1. Spitting on the floor inside buildings and lifts
    2. Not letting people off the tube before boarding
    3. Not letting people out of the lift before boarding
    4. Shouting at 4 in the morning. (For fuck sake just pay the prostitute).
    5. Setting off fireworks at 4 in the morning. (And then at 5, 6 and 7)
    6. Answering their phone when I am talking to them
    7. Ignoring queues and pushing in front of everyone at the train ticket office
    8. Driving down the pavement on scooters directly at me bibbing their horns.
    9. Shouting Lao Wei (foreigner) when they see me in the street.
    10. Punching the table when they lose an arguement
    11. Punching the interpreter when they lose an argument
    12. Staring at me. (Although it is funny when they are on a scooter and nearly crash).
    13. Take a shit with the door open whilst shouting on their phone
    14. Men walking around with their bellys hanging out
    15. Pointing at me
    16. Driving their cars directly at me when I am on the pavement
    17. Cleaners opening my hotel room door without knocking first
    18. Smoking in the lift
    19. Forcing me to drink Bai Jiu. (Chinese Vodka).
    20. Pushing me out the way
    21. Very loud advertising announcements at 7am every morning
    22. Bibbing horns between 1am and 6am
    23. Pulling out in front of people and forcing the second driver to take emergency action to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic.
    24. Continually playing with their phones
    25. But most of the thing that annoys me is just that most of the men seem to be trying and make as much noise as possible. Whether it is shouting, horn bibbing, ridicuosly loud mobile rings or door slamming there seems to be an overwheliming desire to be heard and then seen.
  • King_Edward 29 Aug 2013 07:58:24 11,460 posts
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    Spelunky

    It's poop.
  • FuzzyDuck 29 Aug 2013 12:07:11 4,451 posts
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    @darkmorgado

    If you think of Vanquish as a big, 3D version of all those 16-bit Konanmi-type shooters the presentation becomes a whole lot more palatable.

    It's got as much depth as Boynetta though, best shooter this gen, hands down.
  • Banyans 1 Sep 2013 16:12:50 89 posts
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    I enjoyed Halo ODST.... I should be hung I know
  • Rajin 1 Sep 2013 17:07:43 638 posts
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    Bayonetta is overrated, while the combat is good, it feels more or less like a slightly updated version of the DMC combat.

    What ruins the game is the bad presentation(bad voice acting combined with strange visual novel like cut-scenes)

    I personally also think that the music isn't on par with DMC, Ys or other games in the same genre.
  • Deleted user 1 September 2013 17:32:33
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    @darkmorgado

    If you think of Vanquish as a big, 3D version of all those 16-bit Konanmi-type shooters the presentation becomes a whole lot more palatable.

    It's got as much depth as Boynetta though, best shooter this gen, hands down.
    Found it stylish but difficult.
  • FuzzyDuck 1 Sep 2013 17:36:45 4,451 posts
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    Vanquish is one of those games that feels like it's got a relatively short play time (like MG Rising) as it's designed for repeated play.

    I did way better on my second Hard playthrough than my first romp on Normal.

    It takes a bit to click for sure though, I know plent of people for whom it didn't click at all.
  • famous_roy 1 Sep 2013 17:43:29 4,102 posts
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    King_Edward wrote:
    Spelunky

    It's poop.
    Probably one of my favourite all time games. Care to elaborate? Play it for 10 mins and die a few times or something?

    I'm papercaves on the Twitter. This is mah Tumblr and I'm ulysseys31 on PSN :D

  • Rodriguez 1 Sep 2013 17:57:14 1,097 posts
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    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    Vanquish is one of those games that feels like it's got a relatively short play time (like MG Rising) as it's designed for repeated play.

    I did way better on my second Hard playthrough than my first romp on Normal.

    It takes a bit to click for sure though, I know plent of people for whom it didn't click at all.
    Vanquish was brilliant. The suit-blasters that slide you all over the place whilst shooting the shit out of enemies was tremendous fun and so much more fast paced than the 'run here, hide behind cover, shoot' of so many TPS's these days. It was graphically and artistically lovely too.

    I played it on Hard from the start and after learning the controls found it a decent challenge. The last boss was an utter cunt though; I think I died about 25+ times trying to win that fight, but the elation of eventually winning was a proper 'jump up from chair, pump fist in air and shout fuck yes!' moment :D!

    Edited by Rodriguez at 17:57:45 01-09-2013
  • FuzzyDuck 1 Sep 2013 18:10:45 4,451 posts
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    Haha, that last boss should be pictured beside the word 'cunt' in the dictionary!

    I think I dies 35 times on him/them on my first run :(

    But my subsequent Hard playthrough sharpened my skills to the point where it only took one attempt.

    When I hear people say it was just a cover shooter with a gimmick I say "no!". The whole idea is to keep moving, while the cover is there to afford you time to recharge.
  • Deleted user 1 September 2013 19:07:44
    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    @darkmorgado

    If you think of Vanquish as a big, 3D version of all those 16-bit Konanmi-type shooters the presentation becomes a whole lot more palatable.

    It's got as much depth as Boynetta though, best shooter this gen, hands down.
    Found it stylish but difficult.
    I really like Bayonetta but if anything I found it a bit easy. Oh, you were probably talking about Vanquish. Haven't played that.

    Edited by rumblesushi at 19:08:13 01-09-2013
  • King_Edward 1 Sep 2013 19:51:37 11,460 posts
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    famous_roy wrote:
    King_Edward wrote:
    Spelunky

    It's poop.
    Probably one of my favourite all time games. Care to elaborate? Play it for 10 mins and die a few times or something?
    Dodgy controls, random levels, and an ugly art style. I know two of those things are on purpose, but I still don't like them.
  • Kay 1 Sep 2013 19:53:49 17,937 posts
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    Spelunky controls are perfect imo, and I love the art style as well. Don't let the dreary mine levels put you off, it's a bit of a looker in later worlds.
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