Google campaign for free and open internet

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  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 13:35:12 86,245 posts
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    Take action.

    Not mad about the company but a very important cause.
  • sport 3 Dec 2012 13:48:06 12,499 posts
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    I'll support any campaign that gets rid of the mods and promotes and free and open EG.

    Go Google!!!
  • Chopsen 3 Dec 2012 14:18:42 15,699 posts
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    They were fine with it for a bit when they were trying to get a foothold in China. And only got miffed because they got hacked.
  • Fab4 3 Dec 2012 14:25:42 5,975 posts
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    They only want it free and open so they can milk as much info about you as possible.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 14:27:37 86,245 posts
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    Again, not in love with Google, but surely we're all on the same page on this one.
  • Tonka 3 Dec 2012 14:33:37 20,006 posts
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    I'm not buying the free internet = democracy line that is being sold.

    I think it's the other way around. Treating the internat as anything but a dumb pipe is ... dumb.

    I'm mad about google though. So yeah. I'll +1 that
    /sleeps well

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • SClaw 3 Dec 2012 14:39:35 826 posts
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    Replace “free” with “sole property of Google” and “open” with “Google own everything past present and future so there”.

    There could not be a worse company to front this sort of thing.

    This problem will naturally fix itself when the last of the non-internet generation drop dead in about twenty years.
  • Fab4 3 Dec 2012 14:44:09 5,975 posts
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    The internet has never been free. Most of the major nodes are owned by big businesses and then there is the cabling involved....They could pull the plug on it tomorrow and we'd be up shit creek.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 14:44:49 86,245 posts
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    Think people are slightly confusing two really quite separate issues here.
  • Chopsen 3 Dec 2012 14:46:18 15,699 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    I'm not buying the free internet = democracy line that is being sold.

    I think it's the other way around. Treating the internat as anything but a dumb pipe is ... dumb.

    I'm mad about google though. So yeah. I'll +1 that
    /sleeps well
    It's more the freedom to use it, rather than the fact it exists. Just like the the right to free movement. It's not so much about the roads you travel on, but the right to use it as you want.

    Generally I can get behind keeping the internet "free." But you can get painted into all kinds of odd corners with sort of thing. Bit like saying you support free speech and then realising that means you have to defend people's rights to say really retarded things.

    So why is google not everybody's friend any more?
  • Trowel 3 Dec 2012 14:47:17 17,425 posts
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    I support the ideal, but I'd feel happier about this if it wasn't for their deliberately ambiguous and repeated use of "free" as a synonym with "open". Verging on misleading, given the way the campaign will be spread virally as a headline.

    Edit: as others have just mentioned.

    Edited by Trowel at 14:48:20 03-12-2012
  • nickthegun 3 Dec 2012 14:49:03 58,782 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    So why is google not everybody's friend any more?
    Because they made a big thing about 'dont be evil' then went ahead and did the exact opposite.

    (not that I necessarily subscribe to that. I like google)

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 14:49:33 86,245 posts
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    Quite surprised that people are tripping up over the word "free". Do you also struggle with the concept of "free speech"?
  • Fab4 3 Dec 2012 14:52:24 5,975 posts
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    I love this idea that the internet is 'open'. Have any of you read the 'rules' attached to your ISP contract? And most of those were in place before government started poking their beaks into it.
  • disusedgenius 3 Dec 2012 14:56:36 5,195 posts
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    The internet is open, it's just getting that unfettered access to it which is the issue.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 14:58:36 86,245 posts
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    Fab4 wrote:
    I love this idea that the internet is 'open'. Have any of you read the 'rules' attached to your ISP contract? And most of those were in place before government started poking their beaks into it.
    So what are you saying? This isn't a worthy cause? That there's no issue here? That it's pointless to protest?

    Have you ever been to a country that really limits your internet access? Are you aware of what's happening in the Arab nations or North Korea? Do you know what is being discussed at the ITU? Are you aware of the role the internet played in the Arab Spring?

    If this is a pointless and worthless cause, I'd be interested to know why you think that is.
  • WrongShui 3 Dec 2012 15:00:01 6,598 posts
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    Think of our middle eastern brothers unable to fire off a quick one to broadband pornography!
  • skuzzbag 3 Dec 2012 15:02:03 5,635 posts
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    Fab4 wrote:
    I love this idea that the internet is 'open'. Have any of you read the 'rules' attached to your ISP contract? And most of those were in place before government started poking their beaks into it.
    You need a better ISP in other words!
  • nickthegun 3 Dec 2012 15:04:42 58,782 posts
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    Can you please point me to one that doesnt have reams and reams of Ts & Cs then? I would love to see it.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Fab4 3 Dec 2012 15:06:33 5,975 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Fab4 wrote:
    I love this idea that the internet is 'open'. Have any of you read the 'rules' attached to your ISP contract? And most of those were in place before government started poking their beaks into it.
    So what are you saying? This isn't a worthy cause? That there's no issue here? That it's pointless to protest?

    Have you ever been to a country that really limits your internet access? Are you aware of what's happening in the Arab nations or North Korea? Do you know what is being discussed at the ITU? Are you aware of the role the internet played in the Arab Spring?

    If this is a pointless and worthless cause, I'd be interested to know why you think that is.

    I'd be more worried about the ones that give you unfettered access to the internet and eavesdrop on your traffic, and then come visit you if they find you of interest.


    The point is, that the internet has never been free, open, whatever you want to call it. And while state censorship is difficult to swallow, having Google as your champion against it smacks of hypocrisy, as they were quite happy to go along with when it suited them.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 15:09:08 86,245 posts
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    Fab4 wrote:
    I'd be more worried about the ones that give you unfettered access to the internet and eavesdrop on your traffic, and then come visit you if they find you of interest.
    What's that referring to then? Specifically how does that occur?

    The point is, that the internet has never been free, open, whatever you want to call it. And while state censorship is difficult to swallow, having Google as your champion against it smacks of hypocrisy, as they were quite happy to go along with when it suited them.
    Again, some specifics here would be good.
  • Fab4 3 Dec 2012 15:11:28 5,975 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Fab4 wrote:
    I'd be more worried about the ones that give you unfettered access to the internet and eavesdrop on your traffic, and then come visit you if they find you of interest.
    What's that referring to then? Specifically how does that occur?

    The point is, that the internet has never been free, open, whatever you want to call it. And while state censorship is difficult to swallow, having Google as your champion against it smacks of hypocrisy, as they were quite happy to go along with when it suited them.
    Again, some specifics here would be good.
    I'm sure ECHELON (google it) has been updated for net traffic since its inception, and as for Google and censorship...never heard of the Great Firewall of China?
  • skuzzbag 3 Dec 2012 15:12:54 5,635 posts
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    They're providing a service so you can't expect them not to cover their own backs so that when Mrs Brown's son hacks into the pentagon, she doesn't try to blame the ISP for not preventing her son from doing so.
  • senso-ji 3 Dec 2012 15:13:26 5,789 posts
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    Certain Governments in the world want to regulate internet access, then it will decide what kind of pages and search engines it's population can use. Stopping this kind of legislation is good.

    Google only care because it means more China like scenarios will appear as a result, and that will effect their profit margins.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 15:20:28 86,245 posts
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    Fab4 wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Fab4 wrote:
    I'd be more worried about the ones that give you unfettered access to the internet and eavesdrop on your traffic, and then come visit you if they find you of interest.
    What's that referring to then? Specifically how does that occur?

    The point is, that the internet has never been free, open, whatever you want to call it. And while state censorship is difficult to swallow, having Google as your champion against it smacks of hypocrisy, as they were quite happy to go along with when it suited them.
    Again, some specifics here would be good.
    I'm sure ECHELON (google it) has been updated for net traffic since its inception, and as for Google and censorship...never heard of the Great Firewall of China?
    Re: ECHELON I'm not quite sure exactly what you're saying (as you're still not actually saying anything, just lots of sinister alluding), but Google have always been anti internet anonymity, as am I, so I don't see the problem here.

    RE: the Great Firewall of China (and again, you're still not actually saying anything or making any points so I'm going to have to guess what you're specifically alluding to in a sinister way), Google operate within the laws of the regions they are active in. Does that make campaigning against those laws hypocritical? I don't think so.

    My personal issue is around advertising, and specifically how they now merge ads into search results which I think is dodgy, as search results are now ingrained in our heads as based on popularity. I think it's misleading. This issue has nothing to do with the one being discussed though, and I back Google taking a stand on it.
  • oceanmotion 3 Dec 2012 15:30:55 15,641 posts
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    It's a worthy issue with or without Google who only care because it affects their bottom line and love anything that makes the internet and technology cheaper as they can steamroll everyone with their business model.

    Back to the issue, there has been a change in focus with the internet which is the result of it's popularity and power that governments obviously don't like. I don't think it has hit crisis point and in other countries, they are always backwards. I think it's big enough to fend for itself, just too many voices in the western world to squash. Best to keep an eye on it though so good for Google and whoever else talks about it.
  • B0rked_Gamer 3 Dec 2012 15:40:44 2,481 posts
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    Google: you are the product

    Google can go fuck itself. There are, and always will be easy ways around internet censorship.
  • LeoliansBro 3 Dec 2012 15:42:16 43,137 posts
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    As easy as there being no censorship in the first place?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • roz123 3 Dec 2012 15:44:35 7,112 posts
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    Its a bit cheeky that there are no Libyans on the map considering a few months ago they couldn't stop going on about "freedom".
    Chad can fuck off as well. :-P

    Edited by roz123 at 15:49:20 03-12-2012
  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 15:48:14
    One of the big moral problems with tunneling under censorship rather than directly fighting it is that it strengthens the underground internet where all sorts of dodgy, suspect and downright illegal stuff happens. So when the anti-censorship people start using it as a protest, they're basically being lumped into the same category as paedophile rings and contract killers, with equally as much suspicion from the ones doing the censoring, which just strengthens the censorship argument for those applying it. It's a horrible vicious cycle that can be resolved by fighting, rather than subverting, it.
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