Anyone dabbled in NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming)

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  • Carlo 23 Oct 2012 09:07:08 17,913 posts
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    Anyone dabbled in this (pseudo-)science? What books did you read and do you have any amusing stories on if it worked or not?


    Camels.

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  • sport 23 Oct 2012 09:12:11 12,046 posts
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    Well depends, are you referring to the Flumeberg model or the well established Shalamar cycle?
  • Carlo 23 Oct 2012 09:15:07 17,913 posts
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    sport wrote:
    Well depends, are you referring to the Flumeberg model or the well established Shalamar cycle?
    Is your answer different for either of those choices?

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  • Zomoniac 23 Oct 2012 09:17:27 7,402 posts
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    I read the Jeremy Lazarus book last week. Not really attempted to do anything about it. An awful lot of it struck me as alternative hippy bollocks.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2012 09:21:13
    It is complete and utter bollocks, a scam and a waste of time for anyone of sound mind.

    It has even less basis in reality than alternative medicine.

    Edited by Aargh. at 09:23:03 23-10-2012
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 09:26:52 83,875 posts
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    I think it's interesting. It has a direct relationship with my job so I've read a few books. The Gladwell books obviously are top of the list, and Cialdini's "Influence" has some interesting stuff in it.

    And yes, it absolutely works in my experience although to be clear I'm talking about "the dark side" i.e. marketing as opposed to therapy.
  • Lukus 23 Oct 2012 09:55:50 18,955 posts
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    A couple of psychologists I know reckon it's mostly complete bollocks. There's an element of truth in it, the whole mirroring thing we do naturally for example, but to suggest there's some Derren Brown-esque level of suggestibilty you can inflict on the weak minded, is bollocks.

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  • sport 23 Oct 2012 10:01:06 12,046 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    And yes, it absolutely works in my experience although to be clear I'm talking about "the dark side" i.e. marketing as opposed to therapy.
    No wonder you were de-modded!!!


    ;-P
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 13:24:31 83,875 posts
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    Lukus wrote:
    A couple of psychologists I know reckon it's mostly complete bollocks. There's an element of truth in it, the whole mirroring thing we do naturally for example, but to suggest there's some Derren Brown-esque level of suggestibilty you can inflict on the weak minded, is bollocks.
    Yeah, to be honest from my point of view a lot of it is just putting a bit of rationale around things that some people do naturally.

    A lot of the theory and pseudo-science I don't bother with, and the stuff about therapy is irrelevant to me, but what I am interested in is the whole suggestive and persuasive communication side. And as I say, really it's about articulating why good communicators are effective - it's deconstructing what they're doing that is successful, and by understanding that being even better at it.
  • DJCopa 23 Oct 2012 13:50:00 1,055 posts
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    I'd go along with Kalel says - It's an interesting concept to back up everyday occurrences, but I wouldn't go in for the whole 'jedi mind trick' bollocks.

    'Influence - The Psychology of Persuasion' is an interesting read - Doesn't pretend to do anything it can't but shows plenty of real life examples that I found useful. I'm not in sales, but get an awful lot of sales calls, etc. so find it useful to know some of the 'tricks' that are being employed on me.
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 13:52:06 83,875 posts
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    Yes, I mentioned Cialdini above. Puts it all into a very real context.
  • sport 23 Oct 2012 14:11:46 12,046 posts
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    DJCopa wrote:
    I'd go along with Kalel says - It's an interesting concept to back up everyday occurrences, but I wouldn't go in for the whole 'jedi mind trick' bollocks.

    'Influence - The Psychology of Persuasion' is an interesting read - Doesn't pretend to do anything it can't but shows plenty of real life examples that I found useful. I'm not in sales, but get an awful lot of sales calls, etc. so find it useful to know some of the 'tricks' that are being employed on me.
    So give us an example then?
  • w00t 23 Oct 2012 14:19:53 10,976 posts
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    My boss got hold of a book on this. Since then, he has been obviously manipulative in a very annoying way as he thinks he is now Machiavelli, but is barely Tommy Cooper.

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  • Carlo 23 Oct 2012 14:58:07 17,913 posts
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    sport wrote:
    So give us an example then?
    One of the 'examples' IIRC is touching your other half on the shoulder every time you say to them, "Coor I really fancy a curry" or something like that.

    Then one day, you walk up to them, touch them on the shoulder and say "What do you fancy eating tonight"

    The suggestion is, they'll associate the touch to you saying "curry" subconsciously and reply "I really fancy a curry" but not understand why...

    The idea is the brain crates pathways on stimuli, but doesn't record the difference between the touch, and the suggestion of curry as food. When you query the brain for food while making the same touch, the brain just follows that weighted pathway.

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  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 14:59:56 83,875 posts
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    That's Pavlovian Response. I don't think that is NLP.
  • sport 23 Oct 2012 15:00:18 12,046 posts
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    But I don't fancy a curry right now...
  • Carlo 23 Oct 2012 15:01:13 17,913 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    That's Pavlovian Response. I don't think that is NLP.
    Oh

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  • Carlo 23 Oct 2012 15:01:39 17,913 posts
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    sport wrote:
    But I don't fancy a curry right now...
    Are you sure? What do you fancy?

    /touches shoulder

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  • sport 23 Oct 2012 15:03:29 12,046 posts
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    Carlo wrote:
    sport wrote:
    But I don't fancy a curry right now...
    Are you sure? What do you fancy?

    /touches shoulder
    ooooohhhh care for a fondue luv?
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 15:03:29 83,875 posts
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    I suppose you could argue it's a form of it, but Pavlovian Response is a much older theory that doesn't really have much to do with linguistics as such, which is why I wouldn't consider it NLP.
  • sport 23 Oct 2012 15:04:42 12,046 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I suppose you could argue it's a form of it, but Pavlovian Response is a much older theory that doesn't really have much to do with linguistics as such, which is why I wouldn't consider it NLP.
    So what's a real world example of NLP? Preferably one you've no doubt ruthlessly used to get to where you are now.
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 15:05:50 83,875 posts
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    To be clear, Pavlov taught his dog to salivate by ringing a bell and giving him food, and eventually he'd salivate just when he wrung the bell.

    So it had literally nothing to do with linguistics. NLP is about how language very specifically can make things happen in your brain.
  • Chopsen 23 Oct 2012 15:07:27 15,178 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    It is complete and utter bollocks, a scam and a waste of time for anyone of sound mind.

    It has even less basis in reality than alternative medicine.

    Edited by Aargh. at 09:23:03 23-10-2012
    Yeah, utter bullshit. It does, weirdly, have a vogue with certain types of GPs with I find both weird and worrying.
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 15:10:10 83,875 posts
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    sport wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I suppose you could argue it's a form of it, but Pavlovian Response is a much older theory that doesn't really have much to do with linguistics as such, which is why I wouldn't consider it NLP.
    So what's a real world example of NLP? Preferably one you've no doubt ruthlessly used to get to where you are now.
    A very basic and classic one is cold-callers asking you questions which they know the answer to is "yes". And then they ask you a question that it's hard to say "no" to.

    For example:

    Do you live in a house?

    Yes.

    Does that house have windows?

    Yes.

    If double glazing was free would you get it on all your windows?

    Yes.

    So you need some of your windows double-glazing then?

    Yes.

    We're in your area tomorrow, so it's no trouble for us to come round and give you a quote etc etc
  • sport 23 Oct 2012 15:11:45 12,046 posts
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    Get outta my head kalel!!! /o\
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 15:15:01 83,875 posts
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    Look, there is a huge amount of quackery and nonsense related to it and I really wouldn't argue with anyone who thought as a "science" it was a load of nonsense.

    There is however again some observations made by the likes of Gladwell and Cialdini that are interesting, and people who work in advertising and marketing have done very well incorporating their thinking. That almost certainly doesn't validate it as a science, but at the same time I don't think it's fair to dismiss it as a total nonsense.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2012 15:16:52
    It's fair to dismiss the "REMOVE YOUR ANXIETY/DEPRESSION/POLIO/AIDS BY LISTENING TO THIS SOUND OF ME TALKING WITH SOUNDS OF THE OCEAN IN THE BACKGROUND" stuff as total nonsense, though.
  • kalel 23 Oct 2012 15:22:28 83,875 posts
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    Of course.

    Part of the problem is that it's a very broad term, and has lots of baggage.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2012 15:25:38
    I tried one of those things one (on the advice of a GP, though I think it was more a case of "fuck's sake, use this and go away" than a genuine "this will work" move), and all it did was make me sleepy. Considering it was one to "enhance the power of concentration" I can't say it was a success.
  • sport 23 Oct 2012 15:33:49 12,046 posts
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    meme wrote:
    I tried one of those things one (on the advice of a GP, though I think it was more a case of "fuck's sake, use this and go away" than a genuine "this will work" move), and all it did was make me sleepy. Considering it was one to "enhance the power of concentration" I can't say it was a success.
    But you don't have polio anymore DO YOU??!?!

    GP 1 - meme 0
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