It's not unique to games. As SS mentioned, books were doing this very thing years ago. Cage doesn't allow you to create your own story, he allows you to pick one of multiple threads that he's already devised. Every version of the story that you can "choose" can be played by multiple people. Choice would come in the form, as SS again mentions, similar to sandbox games where you can stop the intended narrative and go and play out your own. You're correct in saying that the options are still limited and, crucially, they have zero impact outside of the time spent doing that specific action, but it's the most actual freedom offered to the player in any game to date.|
GTA, even though you've written it off as a bad example, already offers exactly the same type player choice that Cage's games exhibit when it gives you the option of choosing which of multiple villains you would like to kill, choosing to keep the other remaining in play for further missions down the line. The only thing Cage does is offer you more choices throughout the course of the narrative and spends more time tying those choice outcomes together.
Edited by Derblington at 07:13:37 02-10-2013
Beyond: Two Souls • Page 5
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Derblington 26,133 posts
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Uk demo up today ?
I checked before leaving for work, had to do an update...of course
no demo, mind you it was 05:15 this morning
Progguitarist 10,780 posts
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I liked the demo and will be picking this up on release.
Thought you meant "Axiom of Choice", the Progressive Rock band briefly famous during the 1970s.
Punctum 1,251 posts
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Demo is up on the the UK store
So does Heavy Rain let you fuck it all off and go to the cinema or ride the Ferris wheel on the pier at any point?
There's a merry go round and some children's tv.
Downloading the demo. Very rare that I bother with a demo with a game I have already ordered, but I have to be sure. Im 95% sure that my preorder is safe...but need to be 100%
Got the demo downloading now. From the description, it seems like it's the same one that was on the show floor at EGX.
CosmicFuzz 30,621 posts
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Looking forward to reading your views soon!
Downloading demo as we speak
Humperfunk 5,345 posts
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Just played the demo, fantastic stuff. Absolutely loved Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain and have no doubt I'll love this too.
Well I quite enjoyed that. I watched the same sections being played at the Expo last week and it seemed a bit overlong for a demo, but now I've played it myself at home it seems a little short!
It's pure QD, which means QTEs and gesture-based controls ahoy (and it often feels like all you're doing is triggering animations), but it's quite fun getting up to mischief as Aiden, and the supernatural bent has me wanting to find out more. The facial animation is also generally very, very good - on par with LA Noire for the most part I'd say, though mercifully without the detached-looking body animations.
I've seen enough to keep my pre-order in place.
Also, the title screen is very nice!
StaffyDog 996 posts
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If this is anything like heavy rain, the one game I just did'nt like, then it's a miss for me.
@StaffyDog I've only played the demo of Heavy Rain, which put me off the game a little. It's on my shelf but I've yet to play it. I did play Fahrenheit though - loved the first third, hated the final third.
This demo, rather than put me off, has made me want to see more. Mechanically it feels very similar to Fahrenheit/HR, but it's the supernatural stuff that interests me. So if you hated the way Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain played, you probably won't like this either.
Oh yeah, for those that have played the demo: Did anyone watch the cartoon? Anyone know what it was?
elmastero wrote:Hi mate
Hey Duffy, correct me if I 'm wrong, but you were absolutely
the target audience a day ago or two, how is it that today you're
Purely on the feedback of other people and little bits I have seen/read.
...Well I have played the demo (twice) and I'm still unsure to be honest. I kept fooking up the prompts, no big deal as I would get used to it I'm sure. I felt empathy for Jodie when she was a child, which was a big positive. I liked the forrest bit, less happy about the "siege" bit with the Police.
I'm probably 70/30 for keeping my pre-order
Jono62 16,324 posts
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@DUFFMAN5 If you keep your pre order, I'll get it too.
Having just played the demo, I'm really impressed. Aiden is fun to play around with, but you soon realise how scary it can be for people, when all your really doing is messing around. The acting is really good, and the music picks up just at the right time and tempo for it too have an effect.
Would i buy this? Yes. And I plan too. I can see why people might be put off if their not a fan of the heavy rain type of game play (QTE etc) but for me personally, they never bother me.
Edited by SG59 at 19:05:08 02-10-2013
Had a ball freaking the lady in the test room out, definitely agree with the good acting
due to funds and time not a day one but will purchase for sure
elmastero wrote:I think you are misunderstanding our point.
In short, the axiom of choice is what makes video games especially unique , it gives video games the edge on any other medium or form of art.This can turn out to be a tooth-breaking answer to those who deny games as a form of art.But unfortunately, among the game developers ,nearly only QD offers that.
You and SS are on one side of the fence while I am on the other.We obviously have different opinions.I only implore you to ponder this question : Will those choices in sandbox games truly have different consequences ?(I mean choosing this gun or that , this car or that car , this path from A to B or that path ) if the answer is honestly the negative , then that choice is fake. One last thing is worth mentioning ,I never crossed paths with those books , nevertheless, if it existed back in the 80s and doesn't exist now, it only means that the axiom of choice is not an appropriate feature in that medium , but it perfectly contributes to video games, and to me that means that the axiom of choice is uniquely meant for games.
Videogames are indeed unique in the freedom they offer the player. Books or film cannot compete with that freedom. Cage is right when saying that. However, none of Quantic's games so far have progressed from what written media successfully trialled back in the Eighties (and still to this day), so therefore are not unique to other media. You are still playing someone else's story, and are still selecting predetermined choices. The only difference is the interface governing how you select these options and that it's visual as opposed to written word.
Also. Is what a player gets up during a GTA free roam session, or any other sandbox game not just a story being developed on the fly? Is that not true narrative development? A story I write at home might be awful in comparison to a professional author's, but it's still just as much a story.
I'm not debating which method is better as both have their place (stealth sections aside, I loved Farenheit), but that Cage's output isn't "unique" to other media at all, and for him to imply as much is either him being disingenuous, ignorant, or arrogant.
In fact I'd make the argument that Quantic's library has done amazing things for the development of the movie industry, and genuinely deserves huge credit for that, but very little for the gaming industry. Games should be aspiring to more than just interactive movies that have freedom of movement. Games like Heavy Rain will always have their place as author pieces, and rightfully so. But they are not unique and never will be.
Edited by SomaticSense at 19:46:23 02-10-2013
You do realise QD are trying to blend the two right?
They've not trying to do work for one or the other. Comparing their work with GTA etc is just silly. They're two completely different things.
Edited by SG59 at 19:57:34 02-10-2013
CharlieStCloud 5,820 posts
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Surprised you folks are playing the demo!
... going in BLIND because I love knowing as little as possible.
Never did finish Heavy Rain because some CUNT on here spoiled who the killer was with no remorse.
No. I'm comparing what he implied his game's offer with regard to player agency with GTA. He says his games offer this. They don't. Other games do. I could pick another game that offers the player agency he's referring to if you'd prefer?
And yes, he is trying to blend the two. That much has been mentioned already. Which is entirely the point. Nothing he has made has at all been unique from other media. Nothing wrong with that at all, except when you proclaim otherwise, arrogantly, during promotion of the game.
@CharlieStCloud Yep, I remember that. Part of the reason I haven't played it yet.
Going back to Beyond, the demo really doesn't give anything away, and it's from segments that have been shown in trailers etc. Plus I watched it being played at the Expo anyway
I watched the David Cage dev session the other day, and a couple of bits stood out for me. He mentioned that you can switch between Aiden and Jodie whenever you want. Going by the demo, this simply isn't true. Also, he made a bit of a big deal about games bombarding you with cutscenes and that he wanted all the story to take place during gameplay. Yet there are traditional cutscenes in the demo.
You know you can just keep opening and closing the cupboards in Heavy Rain. Just over and over and over again. You can't do that in a fighting fantasy book. That's making your own story every bit as much as firing rocket launchers at rollercoasters in GTA is.
Charlie, who is the cunt? A regular on here, or some random nubcake?
I recall it being a random, ruined it for me too
still loved the game but still always wonder how much more i'd love it if I didn't have it ruined for me
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