The FA Cup Page 91

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  • RedSparrows 7 Jan 2013 10:28:11 24,287 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I think you blame the man and not the system myself.

    Football is in danger of ruining itself through creating rules to bring "fairness" and "consistency" to the game, most of which shouldn't really be necessary if players could just resist acting like cunts, which for many years was enough.

    People have been joking about this for years, but I think there's a real chance tackling could be completely removed from the game in years to come. We're getting closer and closer to it. I can see football becoming a genuine non-contact sport.
    I don't mean the rules - I'm not sure the rules are in question here. I mean the 'unwritten rules' of conduct, which should apply to any sport. But generally don't.
    They're sort of the same thing. The more rules you make, the more you take away common sense and general sportsmanship, as the assumption becomes that because there are so many rules, anything that isn't written down is ok.
    Aren't they the 'general sportsmanship'? I.e. you foul, you take the punishment without screaming about it. Etc.
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 10:30:53
    I don't follow.
  • THFourteen 7 Jan 2013 10:33:28 34,481 posts
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    The sooner people realise that football is what it is, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it other than continue watching and take what enjoyment you can, or stop watching and watch something else, the better it will be for those people.
  • liamthemaster 7 Jan 2013 10:36:34 1,610 posts
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    Football used to be way more "cuntish" Suarez would have been a normal striker 20 years ago.
  • captbirdseye 7 Jan 2013 10:38:46 5,490 posts
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    FutileResistor wrote:
    He should have owned up? This is what I mean when I say it's not possible for 90% of football fans to think rationally when it comes to anything that Suarez does.

    I've watched football for about 25 years and in that time the only two times I've seen a player go to the ref and 'own up' are Fowler and Klose. And also Di Canio catching the ball and stopping play when he could have scored when he saw the goalkeeper lying injured on the ground.

    So, by most people's reckoning Suarez is a cunt but he should have owned up because you hold cunts to a higher moral standard than the 99.99% of righteous footballers who have never owned up to similar incidents.

    That makes perfect sense and you're not being irrationally hypocritical at all.
    He created this 'cunt' and by owning up it might've changed how people view him.

    You can only judge players on what they do on the pitch and sadly Suarez has created more crap than your average player (biting, diving, cheating) which is extremely frustrating because he's easily one of them best players in the world.

    Also, most Liverpool fans can't even debate about Suarez without some form of hysterical rubbish about conspiracies and Fergie and the FA etc.

    Edited by captbirdseye at 10:43:58 07-01-2013

    Edited by captbirdseye at 10:45:20 07-01-2013
  • RedSparrows 7 Jan 2013 10:42:50 24,287 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I don't follow.
    I meant 'unwritten rules' as 'general sportsmanship'. I agree with you that too many codified laws will ruin the sport. But I think a sense of 'fair play' to use another cliche, is important and should be enforced.
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 10:46:30
    liamthemaster wrote:
    Football used to be way more "cuntish" Suarez would have been a normal striker 20 years ago.
    This really isn't true.

    Football was different in the old days but the kind of player Suarez is (theatrical, always whinging at refs, snide, devious) is very much a modern thing. He would have been utterly exceptional in the old days.

    It's true that football used to be rougher, but everyone got on with it a lot more as well.
  • nickthegun 7 Jan 2013 10:47:33 61,348 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:

    I personally find the handball to stop a goal being scored somehow far more loathsome - the intent is crystal.
    it is and, technically, it is allowed in the rules. You essentially elect to take punishment rather than concede a goal.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 10:47:50
    RedSparrows wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I don't follow.
    I meant 'unwritten rules' as 'general sportsmanship'. I agree with you that too many codified laws will ruin the sport. But I think a sense of 'fair play' to use another cliche, is important and should be enforced.
    I still don't really follow you. How do you enforce unwritten rules other than by making them written rules?

    What I'm saying is that it's all part and parcel. I think the general sense of sportsmanship has been eroded by making a rule for everything.
  • liamthemaster 7 Jan 2013 10:48:46 1,610 posts
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    lol at players being less snide/devious 20 years ago.
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 10:48:46
    nickthegun wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:

    I personally find the handball to stop a goal being scored somehow far more loathsome - the intent is crystal.
    it is and, technically, it is allowed in the rules. You essentially elect to take punishment rather than concede a goal.
    Hmmm, not sure about that. That's like saying murder is technically allowed if you elect to go to prison for your whole life.
  • nickthegun 7 Jan 2013 10:49:35 61,348 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    It's true that football used to be rougher, but everyone got on with it a lot more as well.
    Literally every interview ive heard in the last few years with an old school striker was along the lines of '...and I woke up in hospital, lol. I never went in late again!'.

    Its a cliche but it was a mans game back in t'day.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • nickthegun 7 Jan 2013 10:51:16 61,348 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:

    I personally find the handball to stop a goal being scored somehow far more loathsome - the intent is crystal.
    it is and, technically, it is allowed in the rules. You essentially elect to take punishment rather than concede a goal.
    Hmmm, not sure about that. That's like saying murder is technically allowed if you elect to go to prison for your whole life.
    Not really. Unless a law is explicitly written to say something like that results in a massive ban, people are always going to choose a red over a goal every time.

    But, we are getting away from the point that its an entirely different crime.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • RedSparrows 7 Jan 2013 10:55:40 24,287 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I don't follow.
    I meant 'unwritten rules' as 'general sportsmanship'. I agree with you that too many codified laws will ruin the sport. But I think a sense of 'fair play' to use another cliche, is important and should be enforced.
    I still don't really follow you. How do you enforce unwritten rules other than by making them written rules?

    What I'm saying is that it's all part and parcel. I think the general sense of sportsmanship has been eroded by making a rule for everything.
    We're not really at cross-purposes here, and forgive my ineffective clarification.

    I agree with you that written rules stifle, in a sense, sportsmanship. What I am saying is that sportsmanship should (!) be 'enforced' - not by written rules, but by social pressure. I.e. we live our lives aware of codes of conduct that are never, ever written down, but are are shaped by them. It'd be nice if they made a slight resurgence in football, as they could do a lot to stop written rules from over-reaching.

    Sportsmanship offers us rules - but not FA rules.

    Edited by RedSparrows at 10:56:50 07-01-2013
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 10:57:34
    liamthemaster wrote:
    lol at players being less snide/devious 20 years ago.
    lol at you saying "lol at".
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 11:00:19
    @RedSparrows

    OK cool. I think this to an extent does happen. We've seen Ashley Young change his game due to social pressure and I think Bale is in the process of doing the same thing.

    To be fair others might have done as well but it's hard to tell. Who knows just how racist John Terry would be if it wasn't for social pressure not to be.
  • nickthegun 7 Jan 2013 11:08:40 61,348 posts
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    I think young probably changed his game thanks to pressure from a size nine boot up the arse.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • RedSparrows 7 Jan 2013 11:08:51 24,287 posts
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    Tru dat.
  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 11:20:08 69,539 posts
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    liamthemaster wrote:
    Football used to be way more "cuntish" Suarez would have been a normal striker 20 years ago.
    He'd have also been booted up in the air at the first sign of such cuntiness and would have stopped pretty fucking sharply
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 11:23:34
    The whole "twenty years ago" thing needs updating to "forty years ago" really. Twenty years ago we had the Premier League and a reasonably high number of foreign players. It was neither more nor less cuntish. It was basically the modern era of football, just like now.
  • captbirdseye 7 Jan 2013 11:23:36 5,490 posts
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    Vinnie Jones would've broken his legs and Julian 'The Terminator' Dicks probably would've killed him.

    Edited by captbirdseye at 11:25:35 07-01-2013
  • nickthegun 7 Jan 2013 11:27:20 61,348 posts
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    The late 80s marks the end of the era. I think up until then it was still, largely, what we would romantically know as a mans game.

    Its seen in the most famous players of the era. Outside a the really skilfull, all the cult heroes are ones that could kick you into the fucking carpark.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • THFourteen 7 Jan 2013 11:31:09 34,481 posts
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    i'd love it if Duncan Ferguson and Nasri had a headbutting competition.
  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 11:31:54 69,539 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    The whole "twenty years ago" thing needs updating to "forty years ago" really. Twenty years ago we had the Premier League and a reasonably high number of foreign players. It was neither more nor less cuntish. It was basically the modern era of football, just like now.
    True enough, it's as much a reflection on my inability to see myself as a nearly 40 year old and am still in my 20s.
  • Stickman 7 Jan 2013 11:32:25 29,664 posts
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    Kevin Moran was the tipping point.

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT

  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 11:32:53 69,539 posts
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    A RED CARD IN AN FA CUP FINAL? OUTRAGE!
  • reddevil93 7 Jan 2013 14:16:01 12,083 posts
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    ESPN apologising for John Chanpion calling Suarez a cheat, what horseshit

  • FWB 7 Jan 2013 15:42:51 45,642 posts
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    I must say, on second viewing, the way he hits the ball suggests he didn't think it'd count. The handball looks bloody intentional though.

    Think footballers got away with a lot more intentional violence in the past, but I really don't recall the level of diving and cheating being this high. Not sure if I'd blame any of it on foreigners. Our players are just as guilty of it. I think it's the higher stakes of winning - money mainly - that is largely to blame. Though I know in some cultures diving is seen as a valid part of the game.

    Edited by FWB at 15:47:18 07-01-2013
  • LeoliansBro 7 Jan 2013 15:45:07 44,965 posts
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    Here's fun - in rugby only the captain is allowed to talk to the ref, and is responsible for disciplining his team.

    Why wouldn't this work in

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 7 Jan 2013 15:45:23 44,965 posts
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    football?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

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