Paedogeddon - Jimmy Savile and other celebs Page 84

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  • vijay_UK 10 Sep 2013 16:39:15 2,079 posts
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    Grax wrote:
    what is the likelihood of this falling back on the accuser?? Because technically she should be in the firing line if the claims could be found baseless but who would want to take the risk
    This is the first thing that went through my mind.

    Somebody is lying and if the courts found Kevin Webster not guilty than it is the girl who lied? Is he not in a position to sue her, especially as it has had a negative impact on his reputation?

    Should the courts not take into account - if an accused is not guilty than the prosecutor was lying? Should she not go to jail instead? (I'd like to point out I'm no legal expert so no trolling ty).
  • Cacoethesludum 10 Sep 2013 16:43:38 16 posts
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    So now that he has been acquitted it must therefore be accepted that the accuser was deliberately making groundless accusations for whatever reasons...surely the accused should now have some form of redress against her.

    ^ beaten to it.

    Edited by Cacoethesludum at 16:44:59 10-09-2013
  • Shikasama 10 Sep 2013 16:45:25 6,608 posts
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    Yeah but you'd have to prove that she was lying, just as much as you had to prove that he was. He was found not guilty of being a child molester, but it would be hard to prove that she was guilty of lying.

    I know logistically it's a bit weird, but legally it doesn't really work that way.

    It'd end the same way, with all the bad press of picking on the 'victim' from various groups.

    Edited by Shikasama at 16:46:48 10-09-2013
  • kalel 10 Sep 2013 16:46:56 86,369 posts
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    While someone is lying, it certainly hasn't been proven that it's not him. There just isn't enough evidence to prove it is him.
  • Psychotext 10 Sep 2013 16:48:27 53,839 posts
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    You can be found not guilty even if there's quite a significant amount of suspicion and evidence against you.

    There's a reason they don't find the defendant "innocent".
  • billythekid 10 Sep 2013 16:50:16 11,023 posts
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    By the letter of the law he's been found not guilty of all offences. If it was entirely down to lack of evidence then surely we need the 'not proven' verdict to be added to our judicial system.
  • Cacoethesludum 10 Sep 2013 16:50:29 16 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    Yeah but you'd have to prove that she was lying, just as much as you had to prove that he was. He was found not guilty of being a child molester, but it would be hard to prove that she was guilty of lying.

    I know logistically it's a bit weird, but legally it doesn't really work that way.

    It'd end the same way, with all the bad press of picking on the 'victim' from various groups.

    So, as it appears no actual evidence existed its all a balance of probability thing...I'd be pretty fucking scared if I had the risk of going to prison as a kiddie fiddler based on someone's interpretation of the balance of probability.

    Looking at how quick the verdict was returned and how little evidence the prosecution seems to put forward you have to wonder why the hell the CPS decided to prosecute...it cannot be right to proceed for a prosecution in such cases.
  • Maturin 10 Sep 2013 16:54:37 2,890 posts
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    I think given Saville and other recent cases they probably felt they had to prosecute.
  • Megapocalypse 10 Sep 2013 16:55:04 5,318 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    There's a reason they don't find the defendant "innocent".
    No, that's because no one ever needs to be found innocent. You are innocent unless proven guilty.
  • Psychotext 10 Sep 2013 16:59:05 53,839 posts
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    Of course, except in reality no-one is... especially in the court of the media.

    In reality your best chance of being seen as innocent is if the case is so flimsy that it never actually makes it to court.
  • nickthegun 10 Sep 2013 17:01:24 58,787 posts
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    The problem is that the things he has been accused of and the fact that a teenager is accusing him is the ultimate 'theres no smoke without fire'.

    Theres a reason everyone assumed he was guilty, its hard to imagine anyone making things like that up.

    That and the fact that he chose 'Le Vell' as a stagename, like some kind of seventies comedian.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Cacoethesludum 10 Sep 2013 17:02:35 16 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Of course, except in reality no-one is... especially in the court of the media.

    In reality your best chance of being seen as innocent is if the case is so flimsy that it never actually makes it to court.
    Which it appears should really have been the case in this instance.
  • Cacoethesludum 10 Sep 2013 17:05:07 16 posts
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    BTW, just checking but people do realise that the guy isn't actually called Kevin Webster right?



    ...on a semi related note guilty or innocent I'm still not taking my car for its MOT to him.
  • Load_2.0 10 Sep 2013 17:09:13 18,906 posts
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    A lawsuit against a potentially mentally unstable woman is probably not a great move if you want to stay out of the spotlight.

    Let him get back to his wife Sally and his real job as a mechanic.
  • kalel 10 Sep 2013 17:09:54 86,369 posts
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    He was ironically falsely accused of rape in Corrie last year.
  • Cacoethesludum 10 Sep 2013 17:12:57 16 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    He was ironically falsely accused of rape in Corrie last year.

    This I did not know...once I can understand but twice?? No smoke without fire etc.
  • DaM 10 Sep 2013 17:31:32 12,901 posts
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    DJ Chris Denning arrested by Yewtree.

    I've never heard of him, clearly because he's spent half his life inside for noncery. Why the fuck do they let him out, his rehabilitation doesn't seem to be working....
  • jonsaan 10 Sep 2013 17:47:30 25,326 posts
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    Do you think him and Sally will get back together now?

    FCUTA!

  • Anthony_UK 10 Sep 2013 20:56:16 2,461 posts
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    Did they actually explain who this girl was and how he supposedly came into contact with her?
  • tuff 10 Sep 2013 21:08:41 622 posts
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    RE: Webster

    Under scrutiny, the accuser was found to have lied during early reporting to the police and that's all the defence team need to begin to swing the doubt.

    Just the minor details reported, I too find it difficult to believe someone could 'dream it up', but its that element of doubt that counts (unfortunately sometimes) in court.
  • superdelphinus 10 Sep 2013 21:27:29 8,034 posts
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    billythekid wrote:
    By the letter of the law he's been found not guilty of all offences. If it was entirely down to lack of evidence then surely we need the 'not proven' verdict to be added to our judicial system.
    Anything less than beyond reasonable doubt is "not proven", in the criminal law

    And that is also why reaching a not guilty plea does not = that anyone else is guilty of something, it simply means that the jury weren't able to be sure that the defendent was guilty on the evidence presented to them. You can go to these things and feels as obvious as night is dark that the defendent is as guilty as hell, but the evidence has to stack up (and be legally correctly obtained and presented evidence as well).
  • superdelphinus 10 Sep 2013 21:31:12 8,034 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    A lawsuit against a potentially mentally unstable woman is probably not a great move if you want to stay out of the spotlight.

    Let him get back to his wife Sally and his real job as a mechanic.
    It's exceptionally unlikely that he'd be successful anyway. The CPS had a look and thought it was worth a punt so there will be evidence of some nature that they thought was worth being tested in court. He's got fuck all basis to sue on unless she now sets about defaming him left right and centre
  • senso-ji 10 Sep 2013 21:52:33 5,793 posts
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    Nigel Evans resigns after being charged with rape and sexual assault
  • YoshiMcTaggis 10 Sep 2013 21:59:42 2,810 posts
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    Noncey Nige, yeah he did it

    Edited by YoshiMcTaggis at 22:00:09 10-09-2013
  • Megapocalypse 11 Sep 2013 17:21:19 5,318 posts
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    Richard Dawkins says a little paedophilia never did him any harm. These victims should just man the fuck up. :confused:

    Edited by Megapocalypse at 17:21:45 11-09-2013
  • faux_carnation 11 Sep 2013 17:26:03 9,062 posts
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    vijay_UK wrote:
    Grax wrote:
    what is the likelihood of this falling back on the accuser?? Because technically she should be in the firing line if the claims could be found baseless but who would want to take the risk
    This is the first thing that went through my mind.

    Somebody is lying and if the courts found Kevin Webster not guilty than it is the girl who lied? Is he not in a position to sue her, especially as it has had a negative impact on his reputation?

    Should the courts not take into account - if an accused is not guilty than the prosecutor was lying? Should she not go to jail instead? (I'd like to point out I'm no legal expert so no trolling ty).
    The trial and conviction rates for sexual assaults are low enough as it is without further discouraging people from reporting cases through the fear they might end up on trial themselves.
  • Moot_Point 27 Sep 2013 13:50:38 3,917 posts
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    WTF?!

    That's just sick. A child's mother holding her son down to be raped by his stepfather. Surely this is worthy of the death penalty being restored?

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • localnotail 27 Sep 2013 14:33:31 23,093 posts
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    Random aside: I was looking for the credit to Why Don't You? just now and found this public information film from 1985 - Say No To Strangers.

    Shame there wasn't a companion piece about celebrities.

    edit: ah, doesn't like t=x on the end of the youtube link.

    Edited by localnotail at 14:35:52 27-09-2013

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • danathjo 27 Sep 2013 14:37:37 7,225 posts
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    I don't weither to feel sick or angry, actully couldn't read past the first paragraph.

    Boggles the mind what is wrong with some people, I just hope the kid doesn't remember it :(
  • X201 27 Sep 2013 14:42:19 15,138 posts
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    Stuart Hall, again.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24284739
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