Revolution in the middle east Page 64

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  • RelaxedMikki 19 Nov 2012 13:58:52 927 posts
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    I think the vast majority of the individuals on both sides want a cease-fire. In Israel plenty of Muslim and Jewish people live and work side by side - they have too, they share the same space day in day out. I am not saying they don't talk shit about each other - and many have swallowed some pretty poisonous ideologies - but they're getting on with life together.

    It can be tempting to believe that some people in positions of power and leadership have a vested or misguided interest in prolonging the conflict. But most people just want to, and just have to, get on with their lives.
  • RedSparrows 19 Nov 2012 13:59:43 21,991 posts
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    Yeah, but he did it from the left, rather than as a contended, conceited Tory-boy.

    /sorry, I was 'in mode' then.
  • kalel 19 Nov 2012 14:02:05 86,267 posts
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    senso-ji wrote:
    Both sides want peace but are not willing to sacrifice anything for a two state solution. Both want Jerusalem. Both want the land Israel seized in 1967.
    I don't know if there's completely true. There's been a lot of quite progressive discussion over Gaza and the Golan Heights, and Jerusalem is Jerusalem - everyone knows it's a shared territory. Fundamentalists will have these views, but I'm not convinced there are the huge barriers to peace some suggest.

    Long term security is the big issue. If Israel genuinely believed that the rest of the Arab nations weren't going to gang up and try to push them into the sea the second they took away the walls and the checkpoints, then they'd probably be able to play nicely with the land a bit more.

    In truth, this isn't a totally unreasonable fear and it's not without precedent, but equally their current response to the problem is again, appalling.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 19 Nov 2012 14:02:22 6,654 posts
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    Yeah, If I were to guess at a solution it would be grounded in a correlation between the quality of life for the moderate majority and the frequency of violence.

    Irrespective of the religious significance of the land.
  • Bremenacht 19 Nov 2012 16:10:16 17,600 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Long term security is the big issue. If Israel genuinely believed that the rest of the Arab nations weren't going to gang up and try to push them into the sea the second they took away the walls and the checkpoints, then they'd probably be able to play nicely with the land a bit more.
    They'd could play nicely by not allowing more of these inflammatory settlements to go up, but with Likud firmly in place, that'll never happen. People voted them in, so this form of conflict is something the Israelis have accepted. Fear is a powerful tool.
  • Madder-Max 19 Nov 2012 16:52:17 11,618 posts
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    senso-ji wrote:
    It's not retarded, it's human instinct.
    Humans are basically insane and retarded and we cling to laws and such as a coping mechanism. They seem to be a bit more insane in the east due to a lack of ale and it being too hot

    Edited by Madder-Max at 16:53:24 19-11-2012

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • kalel 19 Nov 2012 17:04:43 86,267 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Long term security is the big issue. If Israel genuinely believed that the rest of the Arab nations weren't going to gang up and try to push them into the sea the second they took away the walls and the checkpoints, then they'd probably be able to play nicely with the land a bit more.
    They'd could play nicely by not allowing more of these inflammatory settlements to go up, but with Likud firmly in place, that'll never happen. People voted them in, so this form of conflict is something the Israelis have accepted. Fear is a powerful tool.
    Equally Hamas were voted in. Hardly a progressive vote for peace.

    Of course that in turn was part if the ongoing vicious cycle, but cycles can be broken.
  • Bremenacht 19 Nov 2012 17:09:13 17,600 posts
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    Yeah. Although I fear what will break that cycle will be something much more awful than what we've got now. No-one knows how to de-escalate.
  • kalel 19 Nov 2012 17:14:38 86,267 posts
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    Sometimes other influences are the key. Support drying up etc. That's how the whole IRA thing chilled. This Arab spring will have an effect, Syria certainly have bigger problems. Maybe the financial crisis will limit Israel's support.

    I don't know. Weirdly despite the latest escalation I feel somehow more positive a solution is nearer. There just feels like a shift in the world attitude somehow. Like enough already.
  • MetalDog 19 Nov 2012 17:16:22 23,708 posts
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    Don't Hamas get voted in heavily on the strength of all the social care they provide?

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • kalel 19 Nov 2012 17:30:33 86,267 posts
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    The mandate of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. There probably are other reasons that people voted for them, but, you know, it's a core philosophy they're unlikely to be ignorant of.
  • senso-ji 21 Nov 2012 18:04:42 5,789 posts
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    Ceasefire agreed

    Let's hope it holds. Also, the Arab spring seems to have done Egypt some good for them to successfully mediate this deal.
  • sirtacos 25 Nov 2012 15:43:41 7,267 posts
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    Atheists and Islam

    Apparently, one result of the Arab Spring is the rise to power of right-wing Islamic groups. As a consequence: repression of anyone who refuses to toe (tow?) the line of an increasingly rigid & codified vision of Muslim existence.

    Simplified analysis but worth the quick read.
  • RedSparrows 26 Nov 2012 11:15:40 21,991 posts
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    The sound of this Egyptian president's intention to give himself decrees that cannot be overturned is oh so positive...
  • nickthegun 26 Nov 2012 11:21:33 58,782 posts
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    Its almost as if he forgot how he came into power in the first place.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • LeoliansBro 26 Nov 2012 11:27:52 43,175 posts
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    Yeah, some of Morsi's new powers are sensible, but some are deeply undemocratic (especially the last one).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • SClaw 30 Nov 2012 09:23:20 826 posts
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    Palestinians win upgraded UN status by wide margin

    Hell yeah!!!

    Finally the UN does something useful. 138-9 in favour. Eat it Israel. EAT IT.

    In all seriousness, I do think that in the long term this will be a good thing. If Palestinians think they have a proper way of responding to Israel then I hope that the violence will start to diminish over time. Israel might not like it, but in truth this is a good way for them to start compromising without losing face - if they're forced to deal then Netty can't really be blamed for it.

    Edited by SClaw at 09:24:11 30-11-2012
  • senso-ji 30 Nov 2012 16:52:27 5,789 posts
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    Israel approves 3000 new settlement homes to be built

    What a kick in the teeth of the Palestinians that is after yesterday's vote. The map on the article above is just scary.
  • teamHAM 6 Dec 2012 11:27:23 2,745 posts
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    So less than 2 years after the riots in Egypt there are tanks back on the streets of Cairo.

    XBox Live, Origin, PSN and Steam: teamHAM

  • Psychotext 6 Dec 2012 12:04:30 53,788 posts
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    They must be loving themselves some democracy right now.
  • jellyhead 6 Dec 2012 13:15:50 24,350 posts
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    They will do when they get it. What with Syria, Israel and Egypt kicking off recently it's not a good time for the Middle East... again.

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • glaeken 6 Dec 2012 13:17:53 11,086 posts
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    That is what you get when you vote into power people who cannot be wrong and are backed by the supernatural.
  • WoodenSpoon 6 Dec 2012 23:31:20 12,275 posts
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    You mean when you have a representative government in Egypt.
  • Khanivor 6 Dec 2012 23:39:32 40,360 posts
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    No, when the government starts to represent just a subsection of the population and the president gives himself absolute power.

    I fear things aren't going to end well in Egypt.
  • Oh-Bollox 20 Jan 2013 15:51:14 5,155 posts
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    Utterly fucking grim pic in the next link.
  • Psychotext 20 Jan 2013 16:57:30 53,788 posts
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    Why did I click that. I knew it couldn't be good. :(
  • Moot_Point 20 Jan 2013 17:03:18 3,912 posts
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    @Psychotext Curiosity killed the cat.

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • MrTomFTW Moderator 20 Jan 2013 18:02:42 37,304 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    @Psychotext Curiosity killed the cat.
    You do realise your sig makes it look like you're saying you got an erection from a photo of a young boy with his legs blown off?

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • mcmonkeyplc 28 May 2013 11:35:38 39,384 posts
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    Russia arms Syria government to deter intervention

    Oh goody.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

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