The UK General Politics Thread Page 51

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  • DaM 16 Oct 2012 13:37:36 13,210 posts
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    I'm not for independence, I just get to follow the arguments more closely so can answer questions :)

    I realise the MP thing does seem a bit unfair...but think about what it was like before areas like education and health were devolved - instead of 70 Scottish MPs voting on issues not concerning their constituents in England/Wales/NI, Scotland would have 600 odd MPs voting on laws solely for Scotland (eg education stuff) by MPs not voted for by Scotland - and that's going back to 1707! It's part and parcel of being the UK.

    As for the University fees, in England this was done to compensate against cuts in the education budget - we've had the same cuts, just had to find them elsewhere. So our universities are getting a lot less investment and are thought to be falling behind comparable English ones as a result.

    It's particularly an issue where you have a Conservative majority in the UK, yet the Tories might have 1 Scottish Tory MP.
  • Dougs 18 Oct 2012 11:29:31 67,727 posts
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    The Energy Price Bill seems in tatters already!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/18/energy-price-row-mps-expenses-live
  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 11:41:42 44,245 posts
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    Yeah, it was a bit of a dumb one that. How they failed to see that compelling companies to offer energy at the cheapest rates available would lead to those 'cheapest rates' becoming sweepingly more expensive is beyond me.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dougs 18 Oct 2012 12:12:40 67,727 posts
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    I'm sure it was pointed out to them, but as ever, they chose to ignore it.
  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:17:57 39,457 posts
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    How is Ofgen supposed to know what the cheapest rate is?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 12:20:05 44,245 posts
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    They didn't, that's kind of the point. It was the cheapest rate the companies offered. Solution for the companies - make that rate more expensive.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:21:41 39,457 posts
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    /facepalm

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • shamblemonkee 18 Oct 2012 12:24:38 14,392 posts
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    Yeah no idea how that was allowed to go through, bloody obvious.
  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:31:12 39,457 posts
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    Couldn't they use an index of prices and have their costs published?

    Trying to create a solution to a fucked up policy.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • TheSaint 18 Oct 2012 12:32:29 14,397 posts
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    The thinking seemed to be that all the companies would offer just one tariff and then it would be easy to spot the cheapest.
  • Dougs 18 Oct 2012 12:34:25 67,727 posts
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    This is just a policy proposal at this point though - there's been nothing presented to or passed by the House. Plenty of room for manoeuvre in other words!
  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 12:35:31 44,245 posts
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    Why not stagger Energy Costs by income?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:35:56 39,457 posts
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    Good cause they'd be fucking retarded to just do that.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 12:36:02 44,245 posts
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    Why am I Putting random Capital Letters in my Sentences Today?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:36:50 39,457 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Why not stagger Energy Costs by income?
    That's a little too interfering isn't it? Sounds like something an uber left wing Labour government would try and do.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 12:40:30 44,245 posts
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    Sounds like what we do already with tax. Why not make energy a basic right of people in the UK, and flex it according to income the same way as with taxes?

    You'd save money because it would all be negotiated at a national level, it would mean everybody had hot water / gas that they could afford (although they'd still pay according to usage so it'd not encourage excess), it wouldn't punish you for wanting a big house and a dead social life as opposed to vice versa, and it'd save lives.

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 12:41:14 18-10-2012

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:42:27 39,457 posts
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    Yeah but what forces down costs then? It's too inefficient at the suppler side.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 12:43:33 44,245 posts
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    The chance to secure an entire nation (or chunk thereof) of customers rather than having to woo them piecemeal.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:46:06 39,457 posts
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    What happens when they have their chunk? I suppose the incentive is to lower costs to gain more profit even if prices are fixed at income levels but I don't think that's as efficient an incentive as prices and competition.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 18 Oct 2012 12:48:49 44,245 posts
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    There is still competition, this isn't a nationalisation. Companies will negotiate at a national level now, and will be up against informed negotiators with significant purchasing clout.

    There are problems of course, but efficiency isn't one.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 12:52:07 39,457 posts
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    So companies will bid to be the supplier of the entire nation?!

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Dougs 18 Oct 2012 12:56:50 67,727 posts
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    Still isn't solving the one big problem - how to ensure cheaper, long-lasting energy supplies for the future. Drive the cost of wholesale down and prices should fall. Assuming the regulator does their job anyway
  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Oct 2012 13:01:47 39,457 posts
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    I'm not liking this one supplier talk, sounds an awful lot like a monopoly.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • senso-ji 18 Oct 2012 13:15:31 5,912 posts
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    Trying to get the cheapest energy prices from imported natural resources is stupid. If we want affordable electricity in the future, the government will need to start the building of the renewable energy power stations that are waiting to be approved.
  • RobTheBuilder 18 Oct 2012 13:26:38 6,521 posts
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    Just like banks, petrol stations, top bosses, as always cost go up and prices go up, cost go down and prices remain.

    I think the government should start a no frills energy supplier service that undercuts the big suppliers, making money for the country and forcing others to put their prices down.
  • Dougs 18 Oct 2012 13:39:13 67,727 posts
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    Isn't all energy no-frills? There's no difference in the end product, only differentiation is price. And service if you give a shit.
  • Carbon_Altered 18 Oct 2012 13:42:40 675 posts
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    senso-ji wrote:
    the government will need to start the building of the renewable energy power stations that are waiting to be approved.
    as well as relaxing the environmental constraints on all that lovely shale gas??
  • Mortey 18 Oct 2012 13:44:16 27 posts
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    People will die due to not being able to afford to heat their home, but hey as long as investors get their money.

    That is the real issue here. Re-nationalise all necessities and charge a little more in TAX (which could be fair if they bothered thinking about it) to build futher generators.
  • RobTheBuilder 18 Oct 2012 13:48:46 6,521 posts
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    @Dougs Well yeah, I meant service basically, a simple tariff, no complex options, no paper bills etc. Something that gives the energy firms (who essentially operate as a cartel in the manner that BA and Virgin were fined for doing in air travel) some real competition in pricing, as they clearly ignore realistic pricing.

    I read that in the past decade or so energy costs have gone up by 50% but bills have gone up by over 100%. It's scandalous.
  • TheSaint 18 Oct 2012 13:48:50 14,397 posts
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    MORE TAX.
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