The UK General Politics Thread Page 46

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  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 22:44:58 27,355 posts
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    Then the solution is to improve the assessment process, not just cut across the board.

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  • Moot_Point 7 Oct 2012 22:45:25 4,106 posts
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    What an ironic thread. /chuckles

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 22:51:28 27,355 posts
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    AWTFAY

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  • Moot_Point 7 Oct 2012 22:57:47 4,106 posts
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    Someone who knew exactly what would happen to the Lib Dem policies as soon as they signed the dotted line with the tories. /golf clap

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • RedSparrows 7 Oct 2012 23:02:20 22,735 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    I'm at odds with myself...

    On a wide level, I think the government should support those who need help by using tax money such that all of society contributes to the needy.

    On a more personal level, I can't count how many times in my life I've came across people who are clearly just exploiting the benefits system and do nothing but take from society whilst not giving a single thing back, and being proud of this. I'd love to see benefits removed from those people, as they've infuriated me so much.
    You aren't at odds with yourself really.
  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 23:02:47 27,355 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    Someone who knew exactly what would happen to the Lib Dem policies as soon as they signed the dotted line with the tories. /golf clap
    Yes, because Labour was such a viable option.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 23:03:20 07-10-2012

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  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 23:05:45 27,355 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19863868

    "But we've changed, honest!"

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  • Moot_Point 7 Oct 2012 23:08:16 4,106 posts
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    If the people voted for them, yes. Better that than some idiotic coalition that benefits one party in particular (especially when the boundary changes happen). But continue to bury your head in the sand about how the Lib Dems have influence over the Tories.

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 23:09:57 27,355 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    If the people voted for them, yes. Better that than some idiotic coalition that benefits one party in particular (especially when the boundary changes happen). But continue to bury your head in the sand about how the Lib Dems have influence over the Tories.
    But people didn't vote for them, did they? So your point is what exactly?

    With regards to what the Lib Dems have achieved, We got the 10k income tax threshold. That's had a direct benefit on your wallet. We got the pupil premium. We are getting gay marriage. Benefit reform.

    Yeah they didn't get everything they wanted - that's the nature of coalition - but neither did the tories. And they're the ones chucking their toys out the pram a hell of a lot more.

    But yeah, they should have gone with Labour and eroded a few more civil liberties.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 23:12:17 07-10-2012

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  • MrDigital 7 Oct 2012 23:10:37 1,866 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Geesh wrote:
    I'm at odds with myself...

    On a wide level, I think the government should support those who need help by using tax money such that all of society contributes to the needy.

    On a more personal level, I can't count how many times in my life I've came across people who are clearly just exploiting the benefits system and do nothing but take from society whilst not giving a single thing back, and being proud of this. I'd love to see benefits removed from those people, as they've infuriated me so much.
    You aren't at odds with yourself really.
    Why not? Ideologically I'm for benefits, in practice I occasionally find a hatred for it.

    Formerly TheStylishHobo and Geesh.

  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 23:17:11 27,355 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    Geesh wrote:
    I'm at odds with myself...

    On a wide level, I think the government should support those who need help by using tax money such that all of society contributes to the needy.

    On a more personal level, I can't count how many times in my life I've came across people who are clearly just exploiting the benefits system and do nothing but take from society whilst not giving a single thing back, and being proud of this. I'd love to see benefits removed from those people, as they've infuriated me so much.
    You aren't at odds with yourself really.
    Why not? Ideologically I'm for benefits, in practice I occasionally find a hatred for it.
    You find a hatred for people who exploit the system, you mean. Big difference.

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  • Moot_Point 7 Oct 2012 23:21:24 4,106 posts
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    /chuckles even louder

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 23:22:17 27,355 posts
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    A labour supporter, laughing at the state of politics.

    How ironic.

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  • Moot_Point 7 Oct 2012 23:28:44 4,106 posts
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    Its dangerous to assume anything. Which is what you have done.

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • Deleted user 7 October 2012 23:49:20
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Moot_Point wrote:
    Someone who knew exactly what would happen to the Lib Dem policies as soon as they signed the dotted line with the tories. /golf clap
    Yes, because Labour was such a viable option.
    Genuinely have no interest in getting involved but i have to say this is not what you were saying at the time. The complete opposite in fact.
  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2012 23:59:14 27,355 posts
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    What I would have preferred as an idealist is different to what I recognise as being practical as a pragmatist :-)

    Although, fwiw, I preferred the option of a tory minority govt over any sort of coalition.

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  • LionheartDJH 8 Oct 2012 00:04:42 19,460 posts
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    @mowgli
    The Ministry of Truth is in action again.

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • TheSaint 8 Oct 2012 16:29:10 14,413 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19865692

    Some interesting proposals in here, in particular the option for companies to offer shares to staff who give up certain employment rights.
  • Dougs 8 Oct 2012 16:35:17 67,739 posts
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    Pretty much all rights by the looks of it.

    Edit: No housing benefit for the U25s? What about those who have no parents to live with, or have been cut off from their family for whatever reason? This country.

    Edited by Dougs at 16:38:21 08-10-2012
  • TheSaint 8 Oct 2012 16:46:40 14,413 posts
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    In fairness that article does say 'limiting housing benefits for under 25s'.

    The shares thing could be interesting, "here's 30k of shares for giving up those rights and another 10k if you agree not to take a lunch hour."

    Edited by TheSaint at 16:47:05 08-10-2012
  • disusedgenius 8 Oct 2012 16:57:15 5,332 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    Some interesting proposals in here, in particular the option for companies to offer shares to staff who give up certain employment rights.
    That's a good thing? Starts to make quite the mockery of them being 'rights', really. All in all looks like they're making quite the effort to make themselves unvotable again. Didn't take that long. :(

    Edited by disusedgenius at 17:23:20 08-10-2012
  • Deleted user 8 October 2012 17:22:41
    I like to be fairly open minded when it comes to the Tories but those are fucking disgusting ideas. Its bad enough we are still fighting the EU working week rules without actually going down the 'liberal scaremongering' argument against Compliance.
  • RobTheBuilder 8 Oct 2012 17:29:33 6,521 posts
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    @RedSparrows Problem is that in reality the benefits problem is almost entirely insignificant in the big scheme of things. It's used a demonisation and distraction policy to hide from the real issues.

    Of course there are people abusing the system. But what they do is make people focus on those stealing 5,000 instead of those stealing 5m, who happily get away with it over and over again. (And in the process, get rid of jobs which is what results on many of those being back on benefits again in the first place.)

    When the rich are screwing this country out of billions of pounds every year, and are clearly seen by EVERYBODY to keep getting away with it, why shouldn't people feel like stealing for themselves is justified?
  • Chopsen 8 Oct 2012 17:38:44 15,999 posts
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    So who's stealing 5m?
  • RobTheBuilder 8 Oct 2012 18:07:03 6,521 posts
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    5m is a random example figure, but there are many many people using dodgy tax loopholes to 'semi-legally' cheat the system out of hundreds of thousands to millions of pounds. There are plenty using outright illegal tax avoidance (which is no different to falsely claiming benefit).

    Then there are the companies who do it. Let's recall for example that Vodafone LEGALLY owes the UK treasury around 6bn, and the government just said they didn't have to pay it.
  • DaM 8 Oct 2012 18:10:10 13,225 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    So who's stealing 5m?
    1000 folk stealing 5000 :)

    The shares idea is ridiculous.
  • LeoliansBro 8 Oct 2012 18:28:27 44,246 posts
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    limiting the number of children in a family that should be supported on benefits.
    This is a horrible idea, effectively saying some people are more important than others. The share scheme, depending on what they actually mean, could be pretty disgusting as well. I worry it's just basically a 'Here's a grand (or whatever), however you future security is out the window' which leads to two things: either everyone takes it, and so redundancy becomes a brutal affair creating true poverty, or some take it, in which case there's a thought in the back of the mind of every decision maker about who would be better to fire, and those who took it become more likely to go, creating true poverty.

    Osbourne really hasn't delivered as Chancellor.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 8 Oct 2012 18:30:08 44,246 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Edit: No housing benefit for the U25s? What about those who have no parents to live with, or have been cut off from their family for whatever reason? This country.
    It's a funny one, but actually one I agree with. U25s ARE much more likely to be living at home anyway, but more crucially thet aren't as likely to have families, and so there are other options available to them (hostels etc).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dougs 8 Oct 2012 19:14:39 67,739 posts
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    But if they don't get housing benefit, how will they pay for hostels, bedsits and the like. Which is pretty much all single people on HB can afford these days anyway from what I can gather. But yeah, the devil will be in the detail, assuming any of this sees the light of day and aren't just headline grabbing ideas thought up by special advisors. Big assumption that though...
  • Jeepers 8 Oct 2012 19:21:30 13,181 posts
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    On the one hand, I'm yer classic hand-wringing, bleeding heart liberal.

    On the other, I fucking hate poor people

    What to do?
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