BioShock Infinite - Irrational games Page 71

  • Page

    of 78 First / Last

  • Armoured_Bear 24 Oct 2013 23:22:47 10,246 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    Played tonight till Port Prosperity, really enjoying it.
    I then started to get crazy corruption in the visuals, all temps and stuff were fine.
    Hopefully just a one off...

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • mikew1985 24 Oct 2013 23:34:19 12,585 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    King_Edward wrote:
    mikew1985 wrote:
    Really a load of bollocks and a terrible game to pick on for the tenuous point he is making.

    To use an example from the music world; OK computer is the worst album ever produced ever. Why does everyone agree it's brilliant?

    Ooh you stopped listening to me? Hmm.

    Some things are just universally loved. What a twat.
    They're not though. Nothing is universally loved, or should be, and Bioshock Infinite is the perfect game to illustrate this. It's grossly offensive, pretentious, weak minded, cowardly racism. The same thing it portrays it's city as being. I liked it subjectively, and so did you, but why is his (and anyone else's concise enough to why) subjectivity so unwanted? 
    It's hid ludicrous assertion that it's the worst game if the generation that makes his point hard to buy into.

    OK computer is pretty much universally loved. There are some detractors like infinite but for anyone to say it was the worst album if the last twenty years is just silly.

    He may not have liked infinite but even still I just can't abide the level of hyperbole he himself is spouting to try to illustrate his point.

    Some things are just generally loved because a lot of people genuinely like them, not because there is some zeitgeist like force making them all agree with each other. He's just the typical overreaction in the opposite extreme.

    I'd find his point more easy to take if he went about it in a reasoned way.
  • ecureuil 24 Oct 2013 23:58:22 76,482 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I've read a few reasonable critiques of Infinite since it came out. It's clearly a well thought out game that has themes worth dissecting, regardless of whether you enjoyed it or not.

    I'm going back through it at the moment actually, it's not quite as good as I remember it being. Bioshock is a clear classic, but I think over time, general opinion of Infinite will slip a little. I'm looking forward to the EG Bioshock retrospective in their games of the generation countdown.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 25 Oct 2013 00:32:04 11,263 posts
    Seen 24 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    I think that over-time, the story and setting and style of Infinite will appear less and less impressive, and the gameplay will be revealed as a bit more of a gem, but that's just me.

    Clearly, Infinite is never gonna take the original's crown, but I think it is the worthy sequel that Bioshock 2 was not (although I'm not saying that that other game was shit or anything)...

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • Mola_Ram 25 Oct 2013 00:36:08 6,946 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    In a way I wish there was less shooting. My favorite parts of the game have little to no action at all. After the amazing intro, it's almost a let-down when you have to start killing people.

    I know it's the shooty stuff that brings the sales, but I personally would have rathered more wandering and detective-type stuff. Hopefully this Rapture DLC will scratch that itch.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 25 Oct 2013 00:44:20 11,263 posts
    Seen 24 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    I think you need to look elsewhere if that's what you're after mate. Or wait for a remake of System Shock 2.

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • Deleted user 25 October 2013 00:58:28
    Better still, a system shock 3 :-)

    Surely irrational have the clout to make that happen now???
  • Mola_Ram 25 Oct 2013 01:14:00 6,946 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    Telepathic.Geometry wrote:
    I think you need to look elsewhere if that's what you're after mate. Or wait for a remake of System Shock 2.
    Well, I liked the game for what it was as well. It just felt a bit of a shame that inconsiderate goons have to come along and spoil my admiration of the scenery. :)
  • damagedinc 25 Oct 2013 06:15:47 685 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Agree with the above easily one of my favorite games this gen. A more slow paced detective esk approach though would have been awesome.
  • King_Edward 25 Oct 2013 07:36:43 11,454 posts
    Seen 23 hours ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    @mikew1985

    You don't think a detailed point by point analysis of a game is a reasonable way of making your point? It's racist, misogynist, clunky, plastic, conflicted and cowardly. These points are made, and explained in detail, but invalid because of a little hyperbole in the opening line?
  • ecureuil 25 Oct 2013 08:00:36 76,482 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Those points are wrong and I don't agree with them at all. Reflecting an environment where people are racist doesn't make them game itself racist. Unless you're a simpleton, I guess. Doesn't matter if it was clumsily handled at times or not. There has to be racist intent and the message was determinedly opposite. It's hard to take someone seriously when they try to claim this game is racist.
  • King_Edward 25 Oct 2013 09:52:06 11,454 posts
    Seen 23 hours ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    You either didn't read it, or didn't understand it. It's not racist for portraying racism. It's racist for just justifying the suppression of the Vox. They revolt and murder and destroy society, just as the white man feared.
  • glaeken 25 Oct 2013 09:59:03 11,086 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Are you familiar with the French Revolution? The Russian Revolution? Revolutions rarely work out particularly well. I think that was the point. There was no justification of the suppression but just a demonstration of the fact often with revolutions historically you end up replacing one tyrant for another even if the impetus for the revolution was a good cause.

    On the game in general I was also disappointed when the shooting started. I thought the atmosphere was brilliantly well done and I wanted the game to develop things more but it seemed like suddenly a switch was flipped and it went into shooting people in the face mode which then continues for most of the rest of the game. I found the society itself fascinating as it seemed like what if based on if the values of the South had won out in the civil war.

    The original Bioshock never had the jarring switch over as you knew you were going into anarchy from the start. The world building in Infinite is still dam impressive though.

    Edited by glaeken at 10:13:53 25-10-2013
  • Deleted user 25 October 2013 10:02:32
    dsmx wrote:
    Infinite is a bit over rated but only because reviewers keep sticking to the need to give their own subjective opinions a number.

    I know giving a nice number at the end helps drive web traffic and create endless arguments in comments sections about the number but it's a completely pointless number in the end and while it helps at a glance to tell if a games worth playing it would be far better served by having a score system based on yes/no/maybe.

    Infinite is a very good game, but it's not as good as bioshock and it's also not the best game I've played this year but I did enjoy it more that GTA5 so that's something.
    Thing is , it only seems to the game industry that has a full on fit when a review scores a low score - or has shown this morning in the batman thread, a 7. A flippin 7!

    I Guess its to do with price, value for money, and time to consume, with films, tv and music, they are short enough to form your own opinion (Even if you have binary opinions of fucking shit or fucking amazing. BEST THING EVA! )

    Don't Kotatu review on a YES/NO/MAYBE format?

    It be interesting to see review scores of the next gen games, it gives an opportunity for reviews to start with a clean slate. Batman today, across many review sites, reviewed - solid version of an already good engine, game. Not ambitious. A 7. Which is fair. Good.

    It'd be interesting to see how all the threequels, and fourquels score on the next gen systems. AC4 actually seems to have re-invented it self a little bit with the pirates and ships, and KZ4 looks like the only proper next gen title. The rest, i'm unsure on.

    Just wish there was more consistancy.
  • Deleted user 25 October 2013 10:18:25
    glaeken wrote:
    Are you familiar with the French Revolution? The Russian Revolution? Revolutions rarely work out particularly well. I think that was the point. There was no justification of the suppression but just a demonstration of the fact often with revolutions historically you end up replacing one tyrant for another even if the impetus for the revolution was a good cause.
    I thought about this too, i thought it was a bit of an odd point to make.. If you surpress anyone, they are bound to react the same way, with violence. We get existence back by hurting others.

    Then i thought about Martin luther king - I'm not overally clued on his history, but wasn't he himself mostly peaceful?

    At the end of the day, if Daisy Fitzroy, just waited and waited, got punished, and punished and deWitt came in and saved the day, that would be, yup just another white man story saving the day, and magnifying the white man in a good light, and not all white people are racists etc. That would have been more tiresome.

    It was made clear in other realities fitzroy didn't scalp and shit the place up, but it fitted the story, either that or create a political procedure game and have debates and bills to pass through motions.

    At the time i thought it was an interesting take on matters, like you say, you end up replacing one tyrant with another. Even if the impetus for the revolution was a good cause. The environment cause violence, oppression and bad things to happen. Pretty much what all Cormac McCarthy books are.

    Also Comstocks claims are valid - but they are manipulative - he knows how people reacts when oppressed - its a cheap shot to prove his point and induce fear in the population. Its not that Fitzroy is proving HIS point, she is just playing out human behaviour.

    Edited by joelstinton at 10:21:02 25-10-2013

    Edited by joelstinton at 10:23:40 25-10-2013
  • glaeken 25 Oct 2013 10:35:07 11,086 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Comstock made his points valid by his oppression. His fears and the actions he took to keep them in check created the thing he feared. I think that is really the nature of unjust and cruel oppression.

    I think in the reality where Fitzroy went to the most extremes the oppression was at its worse so the reaction was at its worst. An equal and opposite reaction kind of thing.

    I don't think the Martin Luther King approach would have work in that reality. King had freedom of speech he would not have had under Comstock. Comstock clearly would not have allowed that kind of peaceful movement of change which means the only option open to Fitzroy was a violent rebellion.
  • ecureuil 25 Oct 2013 13:11:53 76,482 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    King_Edward wrote:
    You either didn't read it, or didn't understand it. It's not racist for portraying racism. It's racist for just justifying the suppression of the Vox. They revolt and murder and destroy society, just as the white man feared.
    No, they revolt and murder and destroy society BECAUSE they are oppressed. That's the message the game was pushing.
  • King_Edward 25 Oct 2013 13:23:14 11,454 posts
    Seen 23 hours ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    @ecu
    Why are the Vox capable of just as much cruelty? Because the legacy of violence is passed on from oppressor to oppressed? Perhaps, but that?s not actually in the game. Is it because history is full of examples of bloody rebellions and reigns of terror? But then that ignores the actual historical context in America that Infinite claims to care about, where the struggle for civil rights was remarkably non-violent (at least on the side of the disenfranchised).
    No, the Vox are just as cruel as the Founders because Irrational decided they would be. They wanted to show a city fall, not just the aftermath as in the original BioShock. They wanted a new set of enemies, a literal skin palette-swap, halfway through the game. They wanted to make a point about how any extreme position is dangerous. Even if that position is racial equality, fair wages, or medicine for your daughter dying in Shantytown.
    I argued these things to while reading it, but I think he really covers all bases.

    Edited by King_Edward at 13:25:00 25-10-2013
  • King_Edward 25 Oct 2013 13:23:38 11,454 posts
    Seen 23 hours ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    I'm double posting everything at the moment.

    Edited by King_Edward at 13:24:37 25-10-2013
  • Deleted user 25 October 2013 13:35:56
    Problem is that the civil right movement, by in large was post world war 2, this is set late 19th century and early 20th century. I don't think you could bring the two together - by in large, the world had gone through two traumatic changes, and a close third with the cuban missile crisis by the time people like Martin Luther King were peacefully demonstrating.

    Infact the american civil war is closer to the events of (must remember its ficitional:) ) Bioshock Infinite than the civl rights movement in the 60'S
  • glaeken 25 Oct 2013 13:56:40 11,086 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Comparing it to the actual civil rights movement is nonsense. Columbia is clearly a city built upon the ideas of what might have happened if the South won the civil war.

    Or are we arguing that there is something inherently noble about the minorities in the US and given a completely different set of circumstances they would always have gone the peaceful route? Compare it to India and its relativity peaceful route to independence under Gandhi and then look at what happened during the Indian mutinies less than a 100 years before. Same peoples completely different approach.

    All I am seeing in the claims of racism is the usual hyper sensitivity they have in the US around the whole area which to me is just an overreaction based on the fact they were so find behind the rest of the developed world in race relations. They have problems integrating that into their land of the free myth.

    Edited by glaeken at 15:54:02 25-10-2013
  • King_Edward 25 Oct 2013 14:18:06 11,454 posts
    Seen 23 hours ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    Those are good points. I continue to flip flop it seems. :S
  • Armoured_Bear 28 Oct 2013 22:58:22 10,246 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    I just finished this.

    Fuuuuuuuuucccccckkkk!

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • ecureuil 29 Oct 2013 18:25:31 76,482 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I finished it for a second time this weekend. It's far less impressive after playing The Last of Us.
  • Deleted user 29 October 2013 18:29:38
    I'm currently playing the walking dead game atm, its interesting that theres been 3 similar games in the past year or so that focus on the anti hero father figure and taking care of young girls.

    When i finish it i might start up a topic and discuss it.

    Edited by joelstinton at 18:30:13 29-10-2013
  • ecureuil 29 Oct 2013 18:37:05 76,482 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    The amount of combat in this game really gets on my tits. I don't know whether it was to pad the game length or they thought it was oh so enjoyable, but it's immersion breaking a lot of the time.
  • Armoured_Bear 7 Nov 2013 08:56:48 10,246 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    I think Burial At Sea is the first piece of DLC that I'm excited for and will be buying on day one
    \o/

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • ecureuil 11 Nov 2013 13:07:00 76,482 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Just read the Joystiq review of Burial at Sea. Apparently it's not very good.

    Edited by ecureuil at 13:07:19 11-11-2013
  • Pinky_Floyd 11 Nov 2013 13:12:08 7,357 posts
    Seen 43 minutes ago
    Registered 5 years ago
    It's only 2 hours long which is the main problem.
  • askew 11 Nov 2013 13:55:22 12,020 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Is this the expansion back on Rapture?

    Edit: Yes it is - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-11-bioshock-infinite-burial-at-sea-episode-one-review

    Edited by askew at 13:55:59 11-11-2013
  • Page

    of 78 First / Last

Log in or register to reply