BioShock Infinite - Irrational games Page 68

  • Page

    of 80 First / Last

  • Telepathic.Geometry 7 Aug 2013 08:19:35 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    @PenguinJim: The existence of the vigors is explained in the game.
    They were copied from Rapture's plasmids...

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • PenguinJim 7 Aug 2013 08:24:07 5,905 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Hmmm, strange how I missed that! I thought there was going to be much more to it, as they're being distributed on every street corner, but less than a percent of the cannon fodder seem to use them.

    Or maybe the "bad guys" think that vigors are useless. ;)
  • MrSensible 7 Aug 2013 08:30:18 25,202 posts
    Seen 25 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Yeah as much as I like the Vigors, they make a lot less sense than in the first two games.
  • nickthegun 7 Aug 2013 08:32:55 60,399 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Telepathic.Geometry wrote:
    Oh come on, Bucking Bronco is obviously incredibly powerful right from the get go. The only vigor I would accept that criticism of is Possession, which really goes through your salts fast, even when upgraded.

    It's funny, I seem to remember similar complaints about the original Bioshock years ago... Did you two feel the same way about Bioshock?
    It wasnt 'obviously' powerful. It lifted people into the air and was given to you at a stage in the game where you likely had two or three fully upgraded vigors that you had been using for *hours* thanks to the slow pace of them being given out.

    You are given bucking bronco before a battle and, as a long range character, I had absolutely no use for this apparently weak new vigor.

    Same with the tentacle thing. Why would I experiment with that when it takes half my salts? All of these *needed* to be placed next to an infinite salt vending machine so you can experiment. As it was, they were placed so you were virtually forced to fall back on tried and tested vigors.

    And, yes, I kind of did the same thing in the original however, they were much better explained, usually through the story, so I knew what I was choosing to ignore, and they actually explained things like combos (zap+wrench, for example) so you at least knew they were possible.

    I think you are forgetting that, if you read back, the majority of your vigor revelations didnt come until you had started your second play through and/or read a faq or two.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Ged42 7 Aug 2013 20:55:39 7,748 posts
    Seen 42 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    IGN article on playing as Elizabeth.

    Glad they're not making her a machine gun totting Sarah O'Connor/Ripley clone. I hope they are really inventive with the tears, always felt Infinite could have done more with the Multiverse.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 8 Aug 2013 01:41:26 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Well, I guess in a videogame where you have weapons like swords/guns/grenades and other means of interacting with the world vigors/magic/cyber-powers, I'm always gonna go for the latter.

    I admit it, I can't understand the feelings of a dude who just becomes a brute in DS and doesn't explore the magic/miracles/pyromancy. I can't understand the feelings of someone who wouldn't go the biotics route in ME, and instead just go for a hard-ass soldier.

    Same here. Sure, maybe the game allows me to proceed on Easy mode with just guns, but for me that would just be an invitation to play with my vigors at my leisure, with no fear of getting killed. In a world with magic, I would have to play with it. Try vigor combinations, try to kill with style. :)

    I guess the lesson here is, horses for courses, right. I'll shut up about it now.

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2013 04:36:22 13,537 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    The lesson here is that if they wanted us to use magic more, they should've fucked the guns off over the horizon. Just because you can't see why someone wouldn't use the vigors doesn't mean it's a strange or unnatural thing to do for the rest of us.

    As it was they gave us a choice, but no compelling reason (or easy means) to experiment.

    As I said on the previous page, Bioshock managed it splendidly by simply making ammo more scarce and the combat more close quarters. Infinite was more of a straight-up shooter for longer stretches, so they couldn't really do that.

    If i"d liked it more I would've gone back for a second playthrough using the vigors. But it bored me, so I won't. To use your Mass Effect example: I played through the first game four times, and the second game twice, experimenting with class and equipment as I did so. Just a single run through the third because, like Infinite, it bored me a little.

    This was a missed opportunity for me, and yet another step away from the undiluted awesome that was System Shock 2.

    Edited by Phattso at 04:37:09 08-08-2013
  • Telepathic.Geometry 8 Aug 2013 05:07:01 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Phattso wrote:As it was they gave us a choice, but no compelling reason (or easy means) to experiment.
    I agree with everything you said except this... But there's no need for us to fight about it. It's just a difference of gaming opinion.

    For my part, I can honestly say that I didn't once use a Vox weapon as far as I can remember, nor did I even experiment with it, so I'm probably guilty of the same thing.

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • PenguinJim 8 Aug 2013 06:13:26 5,905 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    I experimented with all the vigors because I saw some achievements for vigor combinations. ;) Kept upgrading them, too, due to the huge amounts of silver I kept accumulating.

    Still mostly used guns. I was only playing on Hard, though.

    And I quite agree, I'm still waiting for them to make a superior game to SS2!
  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2013 06:51:32 13,537 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    Telepathic.Geometry wrote:
    Phattso wrote:As it was they gave us a choice, but no compelling reason (or easy means) to experiment.
    I agree with everything you said except this... But there's no need for us to fight about it. It's just a difference of gaming opinion.
    Well yeah - I didn't think we were fighting, I'm just presenting you another reasonable point of view on this. :)

    But let me qualify my statement: given how trivial the combat was for me at each point a vigor got introduced, it was simply more straightforward to gun people down.

    I don't disagree that I probably degraded the experience for myself, I simply gave Irrational too much credit. I presumed the balance of combat would eventually suggest mixing things up. It just never turned out that way.

    Perhaps an higher difficulty would do that, but of course at the start of a game one never knows how it's gonna turn out.

    It's interesting, because I'm usually on the 'you make your own fun in games' side of this argument, but Infinite left me so cold I simply don't feel the urge to experiment.

    In fact, the only title in my 360 since I finished Infinite has been Just Cause 2, which probably says a lot. That's a proper sandbox, and proper 'make your own fun' style experience. Clearly it's what I was craving. Maybe just a case of the wrong game at the wrong time.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 8 Aug 2013 07:23:32 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    The only game I can think of where I had this kind of experience was Castlevania: Lord of Shadows, where I had a tonne of 'moves', but only actually used a small handful of because they were super-effective. I would have preferred it had there been fewer moves, but they had counted more.

    I think Bayonetta was the same for me actually, now that I think about it. Streetfighter II and Killer Instinct were the perfect balance for me. Just enough that you mix up your combat, but not over the top in number so as to overwhelm you...

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • nickthegun 8 Aug 2013 07:52:26 60,399 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I did the same thing in castlevania because they were the *only* effective moves as the combat system was terrible.

    They gave you all of these long, flashy combos but because they had no hit stun they just got you killed. The only useful moves were the ones that stopped enemies movements, so you had to constantly juggle them in the air.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • nickthegun 8 Aug 2013 07:52:28 60,399 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I did the same thing in castlevania because they were the *only* effective moves as the combat system was terrible.

    They gave you all of these long, flashy combos but because they had no hit stun they just got you killed. The only useful moves were the ones that stopped enemies movements, so you had to constantly juggle them in the air.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Telepathic.Geometry 8 Aug 2013 08:44:50 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    One thing I like about Infinite, Demon's Souls and say Dead Space 1 is that - maybe with a little practice - it's very easy to parse when and where a weapon/power is most effective. Every weapon has its use somewhere.

    I felt like in Castlevania and Bayonetta, you'd need to play the games to fucking death to be able to effectively use the different techniques. And I managed to 100% Castlevania eventually using (even just the once mind) probably two thirds of all available powers and techniques. And half of those were only used once in a while...

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • nickthegun 8 Aug 2013 09:15:32 60,399 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Its funny, now you mention it. Dead Space (and two to a certain extent) is another one that I thought was needlessly oblique about its weapons.

    You can finish the entire game with the plasma cutter, which is fine, but because of the utterly fuckheaded way they make you expend nodes, you end up hording them and/or piling them into the two weapons you start with because they do the job most efficiently.

    I completed DS one and DS two with just the plasma cutter and the machine gun (with a little help from the mine launcher).

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Telepathic.Geometry 8 Aug 2013 15:07:35 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    So, it's you then. ;P

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • -cerberus- 10 Aug 2013 18:16:26 3,125 posts
    Seen 35 seconds ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Not much is known of the Burial At Sea chapters as of yet but I'm very intrigued, and I hope they think about adding in an optional black & white filter similiar to L.A. Noire's.

    Somebody get on Levine's twitter and make this suggestion, please.

    Edited by -cerberus- at 18:18:57 10-08-2013

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • Kilters 10 Aug 2013 18:32:39 576 posts
    Seen 9 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    Wanted to enjoy this but the combat was god awful.

    Some great moments but they were bitter/sweet as they were just a segue into mediocre, at best, confrontations. Tension was never evident for me.

    I guess I've been spoiled by The Last of Us.
  • ecu 11 Aug 2013 16:46:20 77,011 posts
    Seen 44 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    /ahem

  • CharlieStCloud 11 Aug 2013 16:50:01 5,275 posts
    Seen 19 hours ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    Did they just went ahead and spoiled the twist for the upcoming story DLC?

    ... that she had a BOOB job?
  • -cerberus- 11 Aug 2013 17:11:07 3,125 posts
    Seen 35 seconds ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Well, she does look older...

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • Kay 11 Aug 2013 18:47:17 17,918 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    ecureuil wrote:
    /ahem

    She looks ridiculous now. And this after they already redesigned her slightly in the main game in order to sexualise her less (fully understandable of course, considering her role in the story)?

    I guess she's a completely different character in the DLC, so they felt they were able to go to town with the design.
  • M83J01P97 11 Aug 2013 18:54:40 6,668 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Spoilers I guess...


    But surely if THIS Elizabeth is a resident of Rapture then she is older than the Elizabeth we encountered in Columbia... yes? Seeing as the down fall of Rapture takes places in 1959 and the DLC is set right before that happened...
  • Tuffty 11 Aug 2013 23:10:54 1,641 posts
    Seen 7 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    I played Infinite on Hard and realise it played a big factor in my disappointment with the game. Because shields are worthless on that difficulty and enemies hit you pretty hard, I was constantly having to hide behind cover and play peek a boo, relying on shooting to do the job for me. Didn't feel the compulsion to experiment with vigors because anytime I did I was just dead if I stayed out for too long.
  • PenguinJim 12 Aug 2013 02:01:24 5,905 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    I played on hard, too, and shields were essential for me! (You know you can upgrade them, right?)

    And vigors were slightly useful, too - possess one, fire or lightning another, then shoot everybody. Later, chain lightning was quite good for crowd control.

    Shooting was still the majority of my damage, but the vigors made it a bit easier to get those shots in. Which thankfully allowed me to bash through it a bit more quickly.
  • Tuffty 12 Aug 2013 09:03:43 1,641 posts
    Seen 7 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    ^ But you're having to rely on those one or two vigors while ignoring everything else. I spread my upgrade points around, shields were about a 6 for me, but still had difficulty. Especially when it came to fighting the ghost first time round, where shields meant precisely fuck all. Died so many times on that fight the game just skipped the boss for me. Thank goodness it did because being stuck with the weapons I had, continually dying, losing money and having to fight a boss that regenerates a bit of health each time you die? One of the worst boss fights I've ever played. Like I said, maybe I would have had a better time on Normal, but I have lots of other issues with Infinite aside from that.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 12 Aug 2013 09:11:49 11,396 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Devil's Kiss versus that enemy = effective.
    Charge + Gear = super effective.

    I don't want to sound like a cunt, but that game was built to be dominated by vigors. Seeing as how you're dying all the time anyhow, try using Bronco or Crows to give yourself a little breathing space.

    You will enjoy the game a lot more I think. I won't come right out and say that you are being crap at the game, if you want to blame the devs for not explaining it to you properly, because that is a valid complaint. But let's go beyond that. Use your vigors. Master the gameplay mechanics that are there, waiting for you...

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • PenguinJim 12 Aug 2013 09:41:42 5,905 posts
    Seen 8 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    I invested plenty into all of the different vigors (plenty of money, even on Hard) and put in the time trying them all out (because of the achievements for combining them ;)) and I can't remember a situation where I was killing lots of bad guys with vigors. Hurting them and distracting them, yes, and then just shooting them. Or just shooting them without vigors. Their implementation was OK, but I doubt that I'd have missed them if they weren't there (and the game had, of course, been adjusted to compensate). Coupled with their missable and shit explanation at odds with the setup of the gameworld and without adding to the story (perhaps even detracting from it)... why did they bother? Well... I guess the gameplay benefited from the variety, as even the guns-and-vigors we were given barely supported the game as it was.

    I did toy with the vigors when I got them and upgraded them. Bring an enemy to me before shooting them... why not just shoot them? Throw them into the air before shooting them... why not just shoot them? Distract them with crows before shooting them... why not just possess them and have two or more bad guys distracted at the same time before shooting them? Some of the later chained-vigor upgrades were better at crowd control, but I'd still find myself just using chain lightning to control groups of weak mobs, and AoE fire to DoT groups of stronger mobs, and using possession to burn off my excess of salt (and keep me in silver).

    May I ask, did you play on console? Or if you were on PC, were you using a pad? Maybe the gameplay suffered on console for some reason, making vigors essential, or maybe you were lacking a mouse's precision for headshots..?

    @Tuffty shields were a priority upgrade for me, but not ahead of the others by more than two or three points (shields > salt > health). I still can't remember being one-shotted by an enemy while having full shields... being sniped twice in quick succession seemed to do the trick, so what I'd do is devise a cunning plan where I came back to life and shot those snipers before they shot me again.

    I did die a few times during those ghost fights, mind you - those were peek-a-boo moments for me, too (and not particularly fun - how did those get through testing?). But there were... two? Three of those in the game?
  • kinky_mong 12 Aug 2013 09:46:05 10,426 posts
    Seen 25 minutes ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    Charge (paired with gear that increases melee damage and recharges your shield) and Shock Jockey are the two essential vigors for that fight. Killing the resurrected soldiers while shocked makes their head explode so they can't be resurrected again, and charging Lady Comstock repeatedly with the charge vigor makes short work of her.

    All the eurogamers who actually play with each other on xbl rather than just post pseudointellectual pc handwringing bollocks on the forums, love the shit out of biggy.

  • Tuffty 12 Aug 2013 09:55:15 1,641 posts
    Seen 7 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    I'm steadfast in saying that boss is poorly designed. It's down to the fact that the respawn mechanic gives enemies back health anytime you die, which is bad news if you lose yourself into this corner and are now starved for ammo and money. Dying over drains both those resources and by only holding 2 weapons, it makes it harder to find ammo for those weapons when you really need them.

    That boss, on Hard, is where that problem becomes distinctly noticeable for me, going into that boss fight with the burst gun and a shotgun. That bulletsponge boss regenerates an obscene amount of health on dying. And when you combine that with infinitely respawning enemies who surround you on all sides....

    I'm not the only one with this problem, look at other comments from people on Youtube about that boss fight on Hard/1999. It's either split between people like me having some real, punishing difficulty on that boss because the mechanics work against me or people offering strategies on using glitches or specific combinations for it to work like laying down Devil Kiss traps on the spot where the boss spawns in. All things someone like me would never ever know to do on their first playthrough because at that point they're not expecting a boss to appear. All I know is that without the right setup (again, something I wouldn't have known because I didn't know a boss was coming), it was one of the most frustrating engagements I've ever had in a game.
  • Page

    of 80 First / Last

Log in or register to reply