The Budget Gaming PC thread Page 123

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  • superdelphinus 16 Aug 2013 18:34:50 8,051 posts
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    I have a lg ips monitor and I love it
  • wobbly_Bob 18 Aug 2013 07:46:12 1,720 posts
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    Gaming pc vs ps4.

    I was thinking maybe skipping getting a ps4 and buying a gaming pc instead. Asked for some advice in a different thread ( thanks of the help ) and have been doing some reading of this thread ( as advised ) and online.

    Based on what I have read it seems I'm looking at 500 to 800+ for a decent gaming pc ( Brought not built ) and then in 2 to 3 the years time the graphics card will need changing ( 250ish for a good card? ) and then in a couple more years another whole new pc? Is that about right?

    If that's right it's a bit off putting. I could get a ps4 for 350 then I'm basically set for the next 10 years and beyond. I do think pc is offering the best gaming landscape right now but messing around with configurations, drivers, patches, and the cost is putting me off now. Advice please :)

    Edited by wobbly_Bob at 07:50:52 18-08-2013
  • Phattso Moderator 18 Aug 2013 08:48:47 13,301 posts
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    I just binned the next gen consoles in favour of a gaming PC myself, although my budget was a bit higher than yours at about a grand. There will be a bunch of peeps along to advise you on specs (I can only really talk about mine, which isn't necessarily best for you) but I thought I'd say something about the value proposition:

    I had a hefty Steam back catalogue, so it's incredible value for me to start unlocking the potential there. Literally dozens of unplayed or barely played games. If you're coming from a cold start, you're going to want to become familiar with the Humble Bundle and other things like it. For pretty tiny amounts, you're going to be padding out your library in no time. See also Steam, GoG, Origin, Greenman Gaming, et al and their regular sales.

    People bang on about the cost of console gaming vs. PC gaming. Buying games day one is expensive on both, but in the long run PC will generally be a lot cheaper. And in the sales, often massively cheaper.

    You've already mentioned the indie scene and variety of gameplay available on PC, and that's definitely the case. For the blockbusters, as long as you're not massively invested in the exclusive franchises on consoles (Gran Turismo, Halo, Forza, Naughty Dog's games, etc. etc.) there's still plenty from the third parties to have you covered.

    Then there are the mods, which in some cases completely transform games. Plus, it's a PC - so it's generally going to run faster and with more of the shiny graphics than the consoles will muster for a while.

    And finally, it's a PC. If you ever decide you want to do more than just game (getting involved with modding, for example) then it's there, ready and waiting.

    Just don't forget to add the price of the OS into your thinking. That usually trips me up. :)
  • morriss 18 Aug 2013 08:50:52 70,947 posts
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    Yeah, I just invested 300 in a GTX 770. Need another 8 gig Ram to go 16 gig and an SSD. My processor's an i5 3750k. So I reckon I'm set for a good few years at high settings.

    /crosses fingers
  • munki83 18 Aug 2013 09:05:00 1,412 posts
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    I couldn't imagine not having a pc for gaming. I've always had a pc in my house but usually it was years behind current tech or we would get a new pc every 5/6 years to replace the old one. It wasn't until my mid 20s that I had a system that was a decent spec. The costs can be off-putting I chose to get a 360 rather than upgrade my PC at one point because it was a cheaper option.

    However I do love pc gaming more than console gaming. There is so many odd little titles out there and a huge back library of games. The PC isn't as error prone as it use to be. The vast majority of games will work on release and usually get better performance in the weeks following depending on the title and driver updates for your games and card.

    Also if you can use 2 monitors, I use an old samsung 21" tv as my second monitor, it makes a world of difference having an extra screen. You can use it for watching videos while playing mmos or strategy games, have internet articles to read while waiting for games to load, not very often if you have a ssd.
  • monkehhh 18 Aug 2013 12:04:23 3,298 posts
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    .
  • graysonavich 18 Aug 2013 12:11:45 7,320 posts
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    Goodfella wrote:
    The days of incompatibility issues and setting up drivers in DOS are long gone.
    Ya think? :p
  • DodgyPast 18 Aug 2013 13:59:52 8,451 posts
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    graysonavich wrote:
    Goodfella wrote:
    The days of incompatibility issues and setting up drivers in DOS are long gone.
    Ya think? :p
    ATi user spotted :-P
  • Phattso Moderator 18 Aug 2013 15:00:35 13,301 posts
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    Well, I don't think all the faff is entirely gone. In my first three days with the new PC I had to reinstall Windows once, due to Win 8 driver fuckery, and at least three fairly high profile games refused to run at all without hanging the machine (Metro 2033 being the prime example) and more than a few didn't play nicely with my particular HDTV. So not quite as plug 'n' play as the consoles.

    By and large it's a fucktonne easier than even just a few years ago, but it's only all right until it isn't all right. Then it's as annoying and frustrating as it ever was. Hopefully not too frequent an occurrence though, and I have a lot more confidence in the stability of my current build than I ever did with the ill-fated Vista install back in the dark days. I was one of the silly fuckers that had Windows ME back in the day, too.

    \glutton for punishment
  • DUFFKING 18 Aug 2013 15:13:56 7,228 posts
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    Phattso wrote:(Metro 2033 being the prime example)
    Do you have a nVidia card? Physx drivers tend to fuck that up, if you reinstall them using the one on nVidia's site it fixes it. Mine kept hanging at the 4A logo until I updated them.
  • Phattso Moderator 18 Aug 2013 15:16:21 13,301 posts
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    It installs and runs just fine, but it has a random hanging issue. Plenty of other people reporting it - I guess a game that old just doesn't get any driver love any more. Pity - I completed it on 360 and would dearly love to have played through with all the bells and whistles. Put me off getting Last Light, too. :/

    And yeah, nVidia GTX760.
  • DUFFKING 18 Aug 2013 15:51:33 7,228 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    It installs and runs just fine, but it has a random hanging issue. Plenty of other people reporting it - I guess a game that old just doesn't get any driver love any more. Pity - I completed it on 360 and would dearly love to have played through with all the bells and whistles. Put me off getting Last Light, too. :/

    And yeah, nVidia GTX760.
    Same card as me, I just got a GTX 760 and had that issue. It either froze at startup or after 5 minutes play. Download this:

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx-9.13.0604-driver.html

    Let it uninstall the physx drivers and install new ones. Sorted it for me. Last Light runs like a dream on my 760, I have the MSI twinfrozr one, with a slight extra overclock and get 60FPS in Last Light basically everywhere (not quite so consistent in 2033 though).

    Edited by DUFFKING at 15:52:50 18-08-2013
  • Phattso Moderator 18 Aug 2013 16:42:01 13,301 posts
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    I'll give it a go - cheers. Strange that the PhysX driver in the WHQL certified driver release from July doesn't work though?
  • graysonavich 18 Aug 2013 16:43:14 7,320 posts
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    User error and/or age related symptoms
  • Phattso Moderator 18 Aug 2013 16:44:54 13,301 posts
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    I'm shit, and old, but I can install drivers at least. Except when Win 8 decides to install different ones at the same time and humps the OS, obv. :)
  • Deleted user 18 August 2013 16:57:01
    Take it the new Xbox one controller is going to work on pc from the get go no problem.
  • munki83 18 Aug 2013 17:02:53 1,412 posts
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    @mowgli Don't think so :( MS say they are working on drivers so that older games will recognize the xbox1 controller as a 360 controller.
  • graysonavich 18 Aug 2013 17:04:19 7,320 posts
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    The new controller has been confirmed to work with Windows, yes.
  • orpheus 19 Aug 2013 18:27:38 1,000 posts
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    More overclock questions, sorry if this is buggering up the thread!

    Offset vs fixed vcore. My understanding of offset/intel turbo boost was that minimum voltage was set at 'Normal' (bios vcore setting), and then offset was applied to allow greater voltage at high load. Maximum at-load voltage should not be higher than 'normal' + offset.

    However I feel this understanding is skewed somehow. Regular thread followers may remember I had a little heat & PSU trouble a while back. Since the thing had been stable for a week or so (prime ok, no whea etc), I figured I'd put the overclock back on.

    Did so, reactivating my previous offset setting (1.190 + 0.030 offset). Still seemed a little hot, so I decided to see if the new PSU would allow a lower offset voltage. Took it all the way down to +0.010 without any trouble whatsoever. So, that's a bit weird...

    Keeping an eye on my temps and voltages again in HWmonitor while stress testing, and I am surprised to see higher volts than expected. Specifically, it's pushing up to 1.276 (!) @ 4.2 gig, full load. Tried dropping it to 4.0, still pushes to 1.276 during load.

    So WTF gives? Surely normal + offset is the highest voltage turbo boost should put through it? How the hell is it getting 1.276? No wonder it's bloody hot - 1.12 is the average for a 4.2 overclock.

    Either I'm missing a fundamental part of the puzzle, or something's wonky. I'm now wondering whether it isn't best to just go with a fixed voltage and do it the hard way (start at 1.270 and work down), but I'd rather have the clock pushing to max only when needed, hence using the offset method.

    Any advice? Is there a way to restrict the turbo boost voltage beyond what I've already done? Why is it pushing higher volts than it should?

    For info purposes, LLC is at Turbo, CPU PLL is @ 1.65 (down from 1.8) to ease temps. Turbo boost is set to 4.2. Everything else is on auto.

    Edited by orpheus at 18:28:49 19-08-2013
  • TheBlackDog 19 Aug 2013 21:45:00 384 posts
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    @orpheus I havent got a clue what mobo and CPU you have but you say that 1.12 should be the average for a 4.2 overclock, yet you've set your offset to 1.19 + .01, so 1.2v, which is more than 1.12v. And LLC will give you those variances in volts so that seems normal to see it shoot higher that 1.2v.
  • orpheus 19 Aug 2013 22:05:03 1,000 posts
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    @TheBlackDog

    Thanks for replying chap. I've set 1.19 as I read that in order to use the Turbo boost offset stuff, you had to leave the Vcore (gigabyte mobo) at the 'Normal' setting.

    Offset methods really aren't explained at fucking all, and it's proper wound me up over the last hour! So simple question then - should I fix the voltage under vcore and still apply the (soon to be reduced) offset, or am I ok to leave it at 'normal'?

    Edit. K, can't set offset voltage with a fixed vcore. Have to leave it at 'normal'. Good to hear that the higher voltages are the LLC kicking in, that one bit of info has been driving me nuts!

    For reference, mobo is gigabyte z77-d3h and a core i5 3750k. Will work the offset down into the negatives until it fails prime.

    Aaaand it's so much better. Thanks a million chap, not the faintest idea how I didn't twig that before. Feel like a right berk!

    Edited by orpheus at 22:32:48 19-08-2013
  • orpheus 20 Aug 2013 07:38:11 1,000 posts
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    Anyone use PWM phase control on gigabyte boards?

    Damn thing is Prime stable at much better voltages than it is WHEA stable, but the WHEA errors don't occur at max load - they seem to trigger during voltage transitions or lower load-states.

    PWM is set to auto on my Z77-D3H, but thinking I should be setting this to extreme performance or something like that? Any thoughts on whether that'll reduce the WHEA errors?
  • Sharzam 20 Aug 2013 07:52:34 2,835 posts
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    I always use normal/manual voltage and then use LLC to allow voltage flexibility, the higher the LLC the lower your voltage needs to be. Although when highly over clocked you don't want variability.

    I do this partly because I don't fully understand offset, and partly because when reading advice on what voltages to use it is easier to compare if everything is annual.

    Edited by Sharzam at 07:54:37 20-08-2013

    Known as 'Sharzam' in 98.5% of games

  • orpheus 20 Aug 2013 08:29:17 1,000 posts
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    Yeah, offset is a little odd. Hence asking about pwm, as the whea crops up during voltage transitions and not full load/prime. I thought llc would cover those fluctuations, but even at extreme (was turbo) it still flags whea.
  • Roddles 20 Aug 2013 09:38:27 1,839 posts
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    I have a Gigabye Z77-UD3H and an i5-3570k, overclocked to 4.2Ghz.
    Turbo Boost is off since there is no need for it with a high overclock.
    I'm using an offset, with the Vcore set to "Normal" and the Dynamic Vcore (DVID) set to -0.070V
    All CPU power saving options are on except C3/C6 which is unstable.
    LLC is set to "Turbo". Anything else is unstable for this overclock (including Extreme for whatever reason).


    Through CPU-Z I get the following readings:
    0.948V idle @ 1.6Ghz
    1.212V load @ 4.2Ghz (Prime95)

    In regards to you saying 1.12V is the average for 4.2Ghz - it's not. I've had two i5-3570k chips now. My first was actually worse than this, and would want more voltage at 4.2Ghz to stay stable (specifically 1.272V).

    It's a silicon lottery, whereby I imagine initial batches will be much better than later ones.

    Edited by Roddles at 09:46:21 20-08-2013
  • TheBlackDog 20 Aug 2013 10:01:55 384 posts
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    @orpheus This guide (which is very thorough) suggests leaving PWM on Auto or not messing with it as it isn't needed for such a low overclock.

    This thread has some useful discussion about LLC.
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