Ridley Scott's Prometheus (spoilers within) Page 91

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  • QotSAfan 19 Jun 2012 09:53:58 1,548 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    There are a fair few plotholes throughout the other Alien films as well tbh.

    - how does the company know about LV426 such that Ash is prepared to ensure the creature is preserved? It's only a beacon in the first place.

    - Given the resources of WY, why divert an ore refinery? Didn't they know that it was another space jockey ship? If that's the case see above.

    - Why is it mandatory to assist a distress signal when they are obviously unprepared and untrained. They almost crock the Nostromo landing, Kane stacks it in the alien ship etc.

    - why does everyone assume Kane is fine after he wakes up?

    - how many chinese walls are there in this company? The company knows about the Alien, then doesn't at Ripley's hearing, then Burke does?

    - How big is LV426? The Jordans can't be too far away from the basecamp, yet they are somewhere completely unexplored?

    - Why are there no dedicated Sulaco personnel?

    - Why does Ripley have no problem with the living facehuggers in the tubes remaining alive? She was very clear earlier to Burke.

    Obviously Prometheus is being held to a higher standard and regardless of that does have some serious plotholes, but it isn't like the series to date was penned by Wilkie Collins.
    You do realise that none of your questions are plotholes. The answers are all too apparent.
  • LeoliansBro 19 Jun 2012 09:57:41 41,865 posts
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    Pray answer them.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • brokenkey 19 Jun 2012 10:07:27 6,805 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    There are a fair few plotholes throughout the other Alien films as well tbh.

    - how does the company know about LV426 such that Ash is prepared to ensure the creature is preserved? It's only a beacon in the first place.

    they don't. Ash's programming kicked in once it became apparent there was an alien lifeform (any alien lifeform)

    - Given the resources of WY, why divert an ore refinery? Didn't they know that it was another space jockey ship? If that's the case see above.

    - Why is it mandatory to assist a distress signal when they are obviously unprepared and untrained. They almost crock the Nostromo landing, Kane stacks it in the alien ship etc.

    taking these two together - the behviour here is an echo of current day earth's laws of the sea, which requires ships to offer any assistance necessary to other ships in distress: http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/04/articles/rescue-1/two-dead-fishermen-did-star-princess-cruise-ship-ignore-mariners-in-distress/

    - why does everyone assume Kane is fine after he wakes up?

    Ash doesn't. Ash knows. But he hides his motivations and as he's the medical officer everyone else assumes Kane must be fine because Ash hasn't said otherwise

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  • silentbob 19 Jun 2012 10:10:42 28,918 posts
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    I'll say again, this film is being pulled apart because it was so weak in all other areas. I personally have not held to any higher standard than any other movie I've seen, it was just a broken, garbled mess that failed to engage me in any way other than 'coo, pretty!'.

    This then opened the floodgates to all the other nitpicking that we're seeing. Even then, targets for ridicule are far greater than any on the Alien franchise IMO. Those outlined above illustrate that fact I think.

    Movies are forgiven much if people enjoy the ride, but the ride was shit this time.

    Edited by silentbob at 10:11:51 19-06-2012

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  • RedSparrows 19 Jun 2012 10:20:03 20,757 posts
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    What is this? Damon Lindelhof is a hack?
  • LeoliansBro 19 Jun 2012 10:21:28 41,865 posts
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    It seems an odd obsession in this case. I mean Eraser was turd but nobody goes 'IT'S TOTALLY IMPLAUSIBLE TO CATCH A PARACHUTE FREEFALLING AND RAILGUNS CAN GO THROUGH WALLS BUT NOT FRIDGE DOORS WTF AND ARNIE CAN IDENTIFY FAKE ID BUT ONLY BY DOING SOMETHING HE WOULD ONLY DO IF TOLD ONE WAS FAKE'.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • silentbob 19 Jun 2012 10:45:40 28,918 posts
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    Being held to different standards and being disappointed in a movie you were looking forward to are different things.

    Were there high expectation for this movie? Yes! Were the flaws that broke the movie those that would have broken any movie regardless of anticipation? Yes!

    It's not being held to a higher standard, it's just being discussed by more people who were looking forward to the movie. Eraser is no better a movie just because we're not discussing it.

    Edited by silentbob at 10:49:08 19-06-2012

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  • disusedgenius 19 Jun 2012 10:45:52 5,142 posts
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    Expectations though, init*. Better to under promise and over deliver.


    * Even ignoring the Alien legacy - Ridley Scott directing a proper sci-fi film again would be enough to get everyone going
  • localnotail 19 Jun 2012 13:15:44 23,093 posts
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    I don't expect intelligence and coherency from most Hollywood films, but I feel Ridley Scott should know better. Hence the disappointment.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • WoodenSpoon 19 Jun 2012 15:53:01 12,252 posts
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    People seriously complaining that Eraser had more plot holes than this?

    WHY DID WEYLAND PRETEND TO BE DEAD? WHY?
  • LeoliansBro 19 Jun 2012 16:09:24 41,865 posts
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    No, making a point is all.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • stephenb 20 Jun 2012 12:52:34 2,677 posts
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    Finally got to see this last night. Wonderfully cinematic and great art styling. The film sets up a great origins premise that the rest of the movie fails to deliver.

    I came out of the cinema with the following impression,

    I have more questions than answers, everyone dies and some bint has flown off in a giant croissant.

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  • silentbob 20 Jun 2012 13:31:23 28,918 posts
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    And no-one onboard gave a shit about any of it.

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  • Fake_Blood 20 Jun 2012 14:07:59 3,834 posts
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    Yeah let's all kill ourselves WOOOOOO \0/

    /crashes into alien croissant
  • stephenb 20 Jun 2012 15:39:59 2,677 posts
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    I also didn't understand some of the reactions of the scientists. The biologist especially, sees dead alien, just wants to go back to the ship. Really? This is biologys greatest ever discovery, nah not for me thanks.

    edit : punctuation tourettes

    Edited by stephenb at 15:58:08 20-06-2012

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  • WoodenSpoon 20 Jun 2012 16:13:38 12,252 posts
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    Why did Weyland pretend to be dead though!??? WHY!?11 AAHGHGHRH
  • Khanivor 20 Jun 2012 16:37:11 39,891 posts
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    None of them made sense. It would be like Indiana Jones finding the Well of Souls then turning around and finding a Nazi to suck off.
  • FWB 20 Jun 2012 17:06:21 41,980 posts
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    Yeah, the biologist was a fucking idiot. Dead bodies, fucks off, but when the snake creature pops up he decides to pet it. Fucking moron. Made his death satisfying in some ways.

    Weyland pretending to be dead is obvious... he likes playing mind fucking games. Plus he's a gigantic cock. In fact, come to think about it, this film - and all the rest - are just about that. The aliens have cocks with teeth in their mouths, the face huggers shove their cocks down your mouth and the cast are a bunch of cocks. It's all about cocks. There you go. Anymore questions?

    Edited by FWB at 17:06:42 20-06-2012
  • TOOTR 20 Jun 2012 17:17:04 9,473 posts
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    Theseobservations are very interesting. Forgot all about that Mural mullarky and the christmas tree.

    Disappointing lack of insight into the 'It's all about cocks' theory however :(

    Everybody should just calm down a little bit and have a nice cup of tea.

  • WoodenSpoon 20 Jun 2012 17:43:37 12,252 posts
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    Guy Pearce in Prometheus
  • Bremenacht 20 Jun 2012 17:46:43 15,756 posts
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    Yeah. Cocks work. Best theory so far.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • stephenb 20 Jun 2012 18:06:23 2,677 posts
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    @TOOTR

    That was a very good read. Although im leaning more towards FWB's cock.



    theory

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  • CosmicFuzz 20 Jun 2012 18:34:03 21,244 posts
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    Christ you'd think it had raped your grans or something the way you guys are banging on about it. Don't quite understand the vitriol towards it compared with something like MIB3 which is arguably far, far worse...

    I'm with LB on this. Loads of other, much worse films out there than this. You've all built it up far too high in your heads before seeing it methinks.

    What's your thoughts on Heroes Reborn? Read my TV musings here.

  • stephenb 20 Jun 2012 18:54:20 2,677 posts
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    I don't have vitriol. For the most part it was very enjoyable and looks amazing. There are some incredible set pieces in it too.

    My major gripe is in the first few minutes it sets itself up with an incredibly clever premise and then fails to deliver on that in the next two + hours.

    Maybe more will be clear in the sprequel (sequel of a prequel)

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  • silentbob 20 Jun 2012 19:18:49 28,918 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Christ you'd think it had raped your grans or something the way you guys are banging on about it. Don't quite understand the vitriol towards it compared with something like MIB3 which is arguably far, far worse...
    I've already explained why. It's not rocket science.

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  • SweetMrGibs 21 Jun 2012 10:16:18 19 posts
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    I watched Alien on blu-ray last night and noticed a plot hole; Once the crew land on LV426, Dallas asks what the atmosphere of the planetoid is like (with a mind to going out to investigate the distress call). What's the point of travelling down to the surface, with all the danger involved, etc... and THEN asking whether the atmosphere would allow people to walk to the beacon? If the atmosphere won't allow it, what did they intend to do once they landed? Look out the window with binoculars?

    Edited by SweetMrGibs at 10:17:01 21-06-2012
  • MrE26 21 Jun 2012 11:12:10 1,906 posts
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    I liked the film a lot, but i just don't think it told it's story very well. Too many things were skipped over or unexplained, a lot of the characters were just background noise leaving it difficult to care when anything happens to them & the final 3rd is choppily edited at best & confusing at worst. It looks like another Kingdom of Heaven, cut down to meet a studio mandated running time & all of the character is stripped out in the process. They literally gave the minimum amount of exposition that they could get away with.

    It needed more moments of characters interacting with each other & reflecting on what's happening, as it is, they don't particularly seem to care about anything. Vickers torches Holloway without a 2nd thought, & it's never mentioned again. Shaw batters 2 of the crew who try to put her in quarantine, it's never mentioned again. Shaw cuts an alien creature out of her stomach & is running around covered in blood with a stapled up wound in her stomach, and nobody seems to care or even mentions it.

    The black liquid is also annoyingly vague in it's effects. It's purpose is to mutate whatever it's exposed to into Aliens, i get that. But why not have some visual identification to show that properly? Why not make them all look biomechanical, so they at least look related to the Alien? Instead, you get pink cobras, a reject from The Hills Have Eyes, a giant pink facehugger squid & finally a half human/half Alien creature. Visually, there's nothing to connect these creatures to the Aliens so most people are left scratching their heads.


    Deliberate ambiguity is fine, being kinda vague is not. It leaves the audience confused & frustrated & that's not how you tell a story. It's annoying, because the story was a good one, the film looked beautiful, & they did so much right that it could have been an outstanding film. It's just peppered with WTF?! moments that drag it all down.
  • SweetMrGibs 21 Jun 2012 11:33:33 19 posts
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    I hear what you're saying about a lot of the other characters being 'background noise', but I don't necessarily see it as a big problem. As long as you have several to emphathise with/relate too, it's fine to have a bit of cannon fodder.

    Having said that, the beauty of Aliens is that, whilst it had a similar cast size (in terms of the Colonial Marines vs Prometheus crew), all but a few of the marines (Crowe, Wiesbowski) are fleshed out to a degree that you care when they die. The contrast in the films is evident when you compare the briefing scenes. In Aliens, 6 or 7 of the characters get involved in the discussion, whilst in prometheus, only 4 or so people talk (figures off the top of my head here). Also, the Aliens briefing scene is designed to flesh out the characters, whilst the Prometheus scene is (mostly) exposition.

    Edited by SweetMrGibs at 11:40:01 21-06-2012
  • BinaryBob101 21 Jun 2012 12:04:38 21,966 posts
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    THE LINGUISTICS OF PROMETHEUS WHAT DAVID SAYS TO THE ENGINEER

    This should keep the daft debate running even longer.

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  • Beetroot_Bertie 21 Jun 2012 14:45:42 277 posts
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    Video revealing pre-adulthood space jockey.

    Edited by Beetroot_Bertie at 14:48:38 21-06-2012
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