What's America's problem? Page 170

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  • Bremenacht 15 Jul 2013 14:12:02 17,600 posts
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    One thing which seems wholly wrong about the business - corrupt in my view - is the involvement of the NRA in pushing Stand Your Ground across the USA. They're not just pushing gun ownership, but pushing for effective de-criminalisation of many gun deaths.

    This is why that woman getting 20 years for firing warning shots is so galling. Shooting to kill comes with a NRA-provided legal defence, where as warning shots seem to give you a fixed-tariff pretty-much-life sentence (maybe just in Florida though).

    So, in those states, you have to get a gun to defend yourself from the guys with guns who'll kill you to avoid jail meaning you have to kill guys with guns to avoid jail yourself! Shoot everyone! Shoot them dead! (THIS IS A NOT A SERIOUS PARAGRAPH)
  • RedSparrows 15 Jul 2013 16:30:49 22,004 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    I think there has to be some culpability from making a decision to enter into a violent situation that could have been avoided while armed.

    If a gun gives you the guts to get yourself into a situation where you are going to have to use the gun to get out of that situation it's pretty fucked up.
    The second paragraph is where it gets interesting.

    Having a gun means you're, surely, going to think differently about situations than when you don't have a gun. The consequences of this, with x million # of guns and x million # of possible situations, is going to end up with significant behavioural shifts et al, surely?

    The fact that the NRA, as I understand it, are as concerned about the 'legal' use of guns as owning them is worrying - it moves from the mere concept of ownership and hunting, and self-defence at a broad level (the latter containing the arguments that, generally, are the strongest for the pro-gun lobby, ignoring 'vs the gubmint' bollocks), to the idea that you're a rootin-tootin sheriff, and you can shoot first, ask questions later.
  • Bremenacht 15 Jul 2013 16:47:09 17,600 posts
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    It's a tail wagging the dog. NRA wants more gun ownership but doesn't want the inevitable increase in gun-related crime (and resultant convictions) to be associated with increased gun ownership. So it works to get the law changed so that more gun crime becomes self-defence.
  • Khanivor 15 Jul 2013 16:56:14 40,380 posts
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    The NRA wants to sell more guns. They are a business lobby group. Anything they can do to make more people want guns and buy guns

    So I'd say they are happy for guns to be associated with more crime. More crime equals more fear of crime equals more sales.

    Edited by Khanivor at 16:58:50 15-07-2013
  • FWB 15 Jul 2013 22:01:57 43,806 posts
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    That woman who got 20 years wasn't standing any ground. She was being a massive dick.

    http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/89763383

    Still, twenty years seems a bit harsh.
  • Bremenacht 15 Jul 2013 22:10:25 17,600 posts
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    Fucking hell. :/
  • localnotail 15 Jul 2013 22:59:34 23,093 posts
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    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/06/2117161/jury-acquits-texas-man-for-murder-of-escort-who-refused-sex/

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • FWB 15 Jul 2013 23:05:05 43,806 posts
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    If there's one thing I've learned from the media coverage of the two previous events mentioned here, it's take it with a huge dose of salt. Not saying what you've posted, local, isn't true, but it is pretty clear media is capable of twisting he truth, if not outright lying about it.
  • localnotail 15 Jul 2013 23:12:16 23,093 posts
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    That one does actually seem to be exactly as it appears.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • FWB 15 Jul 2013 23:18:22 43,806 posts
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    If I see the court documents, I'll believe it. Your link reads like he meant to do what he did. Clicking through the link on their page already brings up an article where he is quoted as saying it was an accident and he never meant to kill her.

    Not that I'm defending his actions, but one click through and I'm already getting a slightly different story. I really don't trust much of the shit these papers throw out. They are getting worse and worse. No integrity as so called journalists - who are just amateur bloggers - post all sorts of made ups stuff.

    Edited by FWB at 23:21:27 15-07-2013
  • Khanivor 15 Jul 2013 23:19:05 40,380 posts
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    localnotail wrote:
    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/06/2117161/jury-acquits-texas-man-for-murder-of-escort-who-refused-sex/
    Now that, if the true and full story has been presented ... is way more fucked up.

    Seeing as it's Texas, it's very believable. If the US was the internet, Texas would be Poe's Law.
  • localnotail 15 Jul 2013 23:26:24 23,093 posts
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    He shot the car she was in with an AK-47, according to this report in the NY Daily News.

    I don't think that can be classed as an accident.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • FWB 15 Jul 2013 23:34:07 43,806 posts
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    He claims he was trying to shoot out the wheels. She got hit once in the neck. People are fucking thick. Wouldn't surprise me if that was the idiot's intention.

    Now again, I'm not justifying his actions or verdict. It does sound nuts. I'm just saying I can't take any of these reports at face value.
  • Bremenacht 18 Jul 2013 23:40:12 17,600 posts
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    Detroit files for bankruptcy.
  • B0rked_Gamer 18 Jul 2013 23:59:59 2,481 posts
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    Fucking Hell. What's next, Delta City?
  • Salaman 19 Jul 2013 07:47:04 18,861 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Detroit files for bankruptcy.
    Heh.

    Public services are in a state of near collapse and around 70,000 properties lie abandoned.
    The city's long-term debt could be between $17bn and $20bn.

    The murder rate is at a 40-year high and only one third of its ambulances were in service in early 2013.

    Declining investment in street lights and emergency services have made it difficult to police the city.


    This is usually the point where I give up on the city and either re-start or just let loose all the catastrophes at once.
  • RedSparrows 19 Jul 2013 08:43:42 22,004 posts
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    How has that happened? Didn't Detroit have a huge manufacturing base?
  • RyanDS 19 Jul 2013 08:58:07 9,057 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    How has that happened? Didn't Detroit have a huge manufacturing base?
    It crashed a few years back.  The city is so bad that to buy a large house is now cheaper than buying a car as so many have been abandoned and foreclosed.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 19 Jul 2013 09:07:35 37,325 posts
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    According to Wikipedia:

    Between 2000 and 2010, the city's population fell by 25%, from the nation's 10th largest city to 18th. In 2010, the city had a population of 713,777, more than a 60% drop down from a peak population of over 1.8 million at the 1950 census
    CAR-AZY!

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • AaronTurner 19 Jul 2013 09:29:41 7,591 posts
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    localnotail wrote:
    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/06/2117161/jury-acquits-texas-man-for-murder-of-escort-who-refused-sex/
    You appear to have linked to The Onion.
  • RedSparrows 19 Jul 2013 14:09:33 22,004 posts
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    He got off for shooting sombody because they would not fulfil the 'contractual obligation' of comitting a crime with him, because his property was stolen during the comission of a crime?

    Jesus Christ.

    Funny thing is, reccommend the legalisation of prostitution, and I wonder what the average NRA nut would say.
  • Short-Round 21 Jul 2013 15:16:42 1,181 posts
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    So they've bombed the Great Barrier Reef now, you couldn't make this up :(


    linky
  • skuzzbag 21 Jul 2013 15:22:36 5,636 posts
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    Not quite as alarming as I first though it would be.
  • IMO 21 Jul 2013 15:31:23 5,579 posts
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    Short-Round wrote:
    So they've bombed the Great Barrier Reef now, you couldn't make this up :(


    linky
    That headline belongs in the Daily Mail, not the BBC.
  • Kronos 21 Jul 2013 15:35:19 556 posts
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    Short-Round wrote:
    So they've bombed the Great Barrier Reef now, you couldn't make this up :(


    linky
    They are already killing the whales with their sonar, it was the next inevitable step.
  • Kronos 21 Jul 2013 15:42:41 556 posts
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    Prolly be nuking the pandas next.
  • fletch7100 22 Jul 2013 18:28:46 6,936 posts
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    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3634975/

    An Ohio political action committee is raising money to buy George Zimmerman a new gun, the group announced on its website Saturday.
  • DaM 22 Jul 2013 18:48:05 12,897 posts
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    BoutrosBoutros wrote:
    RyanDS wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    How has that happened? Didn't Detroit have a huge manufacturing base?
    It crashed a few years back.  The city is so bad that to buy a large house is now cheaper than buying a car as so many have been abandoned and foreclosed.
    I was thinking that if you're a yank buying a house in Detroit might be a good investment. Surely a once prosperous city in the richest country in the world has a good chance of economic recovery at some point in the future?
    You'd be probably better buying a whole blockful and just sitting on the land.
  • fletch7100 22 Jul 2013 18:54:33 6,936 posts
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    Might be able to buy the whole city for a dollar
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