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  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 14:41:51 25,410 posts
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    But Lewis still has the chance to win six races, so it's not over until very near the end.

    Excitingnessment.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 14:42:55 25,410 posts
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    There should be no such thing as second place in sport anyway.

    'The taking part counts'...PFFT! :)
  • billythekid 17 Mar 2009 14:44:52 11,014 posts
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    Yes but if he only wins four, just one less than Kimi, yet out scores him by a country mile he can't win it. It's just not right imo.
  • billythekid 17 Mar 2009 14:45:15 11,014 posts
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    Hehe, second place is the first loser!
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 14:45:59 25,410 posts
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    Exactly!

    Must try harder!

    :)
  • El_MUERkO 17 Mar 2009 14:48:53 16,949 posts
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    see the 2004 season for why the idea sucks balls
  • Fletche 17 Mar 2009 14:50:25 3,418 posts
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    Most probably the worst idea in F1 history (apart from grooved tyres maybe) and there was me actually thinking th FIA finally were getting it right, HA! Should have known, possible the most inept sporting organisation in the world, and beyond probably.

    Why bother fighting for 3rd now when the extra point you may get will be meaningless at the end of the season!!
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 14:51:09 25,410 posts
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    That's not because of that idea though. Schumacher just won a fuckload of races in a row.
  • KingOfSpain 17 Mar 2009 14:54:55 5,187 posts
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    Fletche wrote:


    Why bother fighting for 3rd now when the extra point you may get will be meaningless at the end of the season!!

    Very true. If after 15 laps it looks like Ferrari are off the pace and are way back in 11 they might as well just park their cars and go home. In the past they might have put their foot down and gone for a few points.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 14:58:41 25,410 posts
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    Not necessarily, as there's still the chance of winning the same number of races, when it would then come down to points.

    With a seemingly more level playing field this season, this change in the rules could make for some great races.
  • Merlinho 17 Mar 2009 15:00:18 5,909 posts
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    It will be worth something in the constructors championship though, so the teams would still want to gain points, although I agree to an extent with Fletche's thought.
  • KingOfSpain 17 Mar 2009 15:03:13 5,187 posts
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    StarchildHypocrethes wrote:
    Not necessarily, as there's still the chance of winning the same number of races, when it would then come down to points.

    With a seemingly more level playing field this season, this change in the rules could make for some great races.

    But now they have to make their engines last a lot longer (2 or 3 races?) so if the prize is only 'goal difference' they might as well turn their engine down and chillax so they are more competitive in the next race.
  • billythekid 17 Mar 2009 15:27:25 11,014 posts
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    Stolen from autosport forums:

    With one race to go you could have a WDC table that looks something like this........

    Massa... 4/75
    Hamilton... 2/74
    Alonso... 2/73
    Kubica... 2/71
    Raikonnen... 2/68
    Button... 0/53
    Webber... 0/50
    Heidfeld... 0/43
    Vettel... 0/42
    Kovalainnen... 0/41
    Barrichello... 4/40

    And the only driver that could snatch the title off Massa in the last race would be Rubens.
  • Bremenacht 17 Mar 2009 16:01:02 17,600 posts
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    Another factor that will play a stronger part as a result of the changes is luck. If the weather changes while you're on the wrong tyres or the safety car comes out at the wrong time, you may as well consider the race a write-off if you're a title contender. Someone doing a 'Piquet' and winning could change which way the title goes. It won't encourage drivers who are behind to speed up or whatever in most cases, because F1 is mostly a numbers game and teams will know the likelihood of winning or not winning very early in a race. So, the only reason they'll keep driving when in a losing position is in the hope that the leader crashes or has a mechanical failure. That's not racing.

    It'll also encourage the lesser teams to take more risks in pursuit of a potentially season-changing win. A single win could make the difference between, say 5th and last. e.g. STR Ferrari.

    I can't help but feel that if a Ferrari driver doesn't win this year, they'll change the rules back again.

    KingOfSpain wrote:
    chillax

    :/
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 16:04:56 25,410 posts
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    billythekid wrote:
    Stolen from autosport forums:

    With one race to go you could have a WDC table that looks something like this........

    Massa... 4/75
    Hamilton... 2/74
    Alonso... 2/73
    Kubica... 2/71
    Raikonnen... 2/68
    Button... 0/53
    Webber... 0/50
    Heidfeld... 0/43
    Vettel... 0/42
    Kovalainnen... 0/41
    Barrichello... 4/40

    And the only driver that could snatch the title off Massa in the last race would be Rubens.
    But then the table probably wouldn't look like that if the championship is based on wins.

    Rubens would be in joint first.
  • Psychotext 17 Mar 2009 16:18:24 53,801 posts
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    One for the stats heads (I know there's at least one of you here)... how would this have decided the last few seasons?
  • Fletche 17 Mar 2009 16:25:10 3,418 posts
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    It could just take away something from the overall result of the WC, a driver who wins 4 races and spins out of every other race can win the WC over another who wins 3 and finishes 2nd in every other race of the season, this to me is just plain wrong.

    This idea just isn't doing it for me at all and I cannot see how it will improve racing.
  • Merlinho 17 Mar 2009 16:33:50 5,909 posts
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    Quick wiki review gives, with under old rules first, and new rules 2nd:

    2008: Hamilton / Massa
    2007: Raikonnen / Raikonnen
    2006: Alonso / Alonso (on points difference)
    2005: Alonso / Alonso (on points difference)
    2004: Schumacher / Schumacher

    So it's obviously anti-Lewis ;)

    Edit: some more

    2003: Schumi / Schumi
    2002: Schumi /Schumi
    2001: Schumi /Schumi
    2000: Schumi /Schumi
    1999: Hakkinen / Hakkinen
  • Fletche 17 Mar 2009 16:34:13 3,418 posts
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    I do think it may have made Alain Prost the greatest driver ever with 7 WC's which may have meant Schumacher racing for a few more years
  • Psychotext 17 Mar 2009 16:36:14 53,801 posts
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    Merlinho wrote:
    Quick wiki review gives, with under old rules first, and new rules 2nd:

    2008: Hamilton / Massa
    2007: Raikonnen / Raikonnen
    2006: Alonso / Alonso (on points difference)
    2005: Alonso / Alonso (on points difference)
    2004: Schumacher / Schumacher

    So it's obviously anti-Lewis ;)
    So on the face of it... it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 16:37:42 25,410 posts
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    It just makes the value of a win higher.

    Which is right, because as previously discussed anything other than a win is a loss :)
  • Dougs 17 Mar 2009 16:41:14 66,637 posts
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    Merlinho wrote:
    Quick wiki review gives, with under old rules first, and new rules 2nd:

    2008: Hamilton / Massa
    2007: Raikonnen / Raikonnen
    2006: Alonso / Alonso (on points difference)
    2005: Alonso / Alonso (on points difference)
    2004: Schumacher / Schumacher

    So it's obviously anti-Lewis ;)

    Edit: some more

    2003: Schumi / Schumi
    2002: Schumi /Schumi
    2001: Schumi /Schumi
    2000: Schumi /Schumi
    1999: Hakkinen / Hakkinen

    Heh. My first thought was "this is because they were gutted LH won not Massa".
  • Merlinho 17 Mar 2009 16:41:21 5,909 posts
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    If you ain't first....you're last!

    It would actually be interesting to work out when the championship was decided for each of those seasons under the new and old system. But that would take me much longer!
  • Psychotext 17 Mar 2009 16:43:35 53,801 posts
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    I'm sure someone will eventually. :)
  • Dougs 17 Mar 2009 16:46:58 66,637 posts
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    On the face of it though, shouldn't matter. Makes me a little uneasy comparing, as obviously some of the championships were still wide open on points - what might be more appropriate is looking at the wins say 4-5 out and whether anyone else could win it
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 16:51:46 25,410 posts
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    Looking at the last 3 seasons, all of them would have come down to the last race of the season. Rather than then having some one needing one driver to finish in one place whilst he then finished 5th or better etc, it would have been a flat out winner takers all race.

    Which would be ace.
  • Psychotext 17 Mar 2009 16:53:35 53,801 posts
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    I think it's pretty obvious that they had previous seasons in mind when they came up with this. Though I'm sure the more vocal opposition to this plan would have us think they pulled it out of their arses. :D
  • coastal 17 Mar 2009 16:55:08 5,377 posts
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    They should have absolutely no rules including the option to drive into a truck, change into a speed boat, drop oil puddles and smoke clouds and fire yellow chunks out of the front of the car.

    bf3: sergeant_shaftoe

  • Merlinho 17 Mar 2009 17:06:57 5,909 posts
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    Right.

    The last season it would have affected was 1989, where Senna would have won instead of Prost.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 17 Mar 2009 17:09:32 25,410 posts
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    I think that's all the justification this change needs then.

    /loved Senna

    /hated Prost
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