Learning Japanese I think I'm learning Japanese I really think so Page 50

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 31 Oct 2013 08:28:32 11,324 posts
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    He doesn't clearly say, he just says he can't. Sorry dude...

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  • -cerberus- 31 Oct 2013 08:35:59 2,874 posts
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    @Telepathic.Geometry No problem. Thank you for the translation :) I'm learning Japanese myself at the moment but I've got a long way to go, it's a very difficult and confusing language to learn...

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • Telepathic.Geometry 31 Oct 2013 08:58:01 11,324 posts
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    Yeah, it's not that hard to speak, but the reading and writing and polite form are no joke. Good luck with the studies. Always nice to have another student among us. Any questions you might have, feel free to ask any time. :-)

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  • boo 31 Oct 2013 09:02:40 11,785 posts
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    TG - thanks for the response last night. I don't have any context at all I'm afraid.
    Still - college tonight, so I'll find out what they are (and post it up in case anyone's interested).

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • Mola_Ram 31 Oct 2013 09:06:58 7,402 posts
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    Yeah, the second one I would guess as being "one, two... THREE". It gets used sometimes in janken (rock paper scissors) matches. They use it to make decisions, like flipping a coin.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 09:07:36 31-10-2013
  • simiankid 22 Nov 2013 15:50:18 594 posts
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    So, thanks to lurking in this thread for a little while, I've finally persuaded myself to bite the bullet and learn enough Japanese that I can get by when I take my long-awaited (but sadly still hypothetical) Trip To Japan.

    I've taken what seems to be a slightly odd (possibly stupid) route into the language. Using an iphone apps, I've learnt can now recognise 400 basic kanji, and have (just yesterday) acquired the rudiments of reading hirigana. So far so good.

    So back I go to start reading the kun yomi and on yomi for the kanji I recognise and, surprise surprise, manage to get really confused with the very first one.

    So, one (一;) should be 'ichi' - this much I know from anime etc. But the kun yomi seems to indicate it's pronounced 'hi-to' (ひと;). What the heck?

    Am I missing something really obvious here?
  • ilmaestro 22 Nov 2013 17:36:53 32,449 posts
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    I'm not sure what you're confused by - ichi is the on-yomi, hito is the kun-yomi.

    4235

  • Telepathic.Geometry 23 Nov 2013 02:46:14 11,324 posts
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    I guess that you are confused by the fact that the kun-yomi for both 一 and 人 is hito. Right? Welcome to Japanese. There are fucking tonnes of homophones.

    If that's not the problem, I don't follow ya...

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  • simiankid 23 Nov 2013 12:08:44 594 posts
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    ilmaestro wrote:
    I'm not sure what you're confused by - ichi is the on-yomi, hito is the kun-yomi.
    Aha! Thanks. Looking at it again, I can see the examples do indeed use ichi. The on-yomi seems to have another reading again, which is what was confusing me.

    You can see what I'm talking about here: http://imgur.com/zFFLsNp

    Edited by simiankid at 12:42:50 25-11-2013
  • Telepathic.Geometry 23 Nov 2013 13:23:44 11,324 posts
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    The simpler kanji like 上, 下 and 一 tend to have all kinds of fucked up readings. For example, just for 上 I can think of ue, uwa, aga, age, nobo, jou and kami off the top of my head, and I'm sure JinTypeNoir could give you a half dozen more.

    I think that the best way to learn kanji is to take a few passes at it. So like, maybe you just learn the simplest readings of the first 100 or so kanji, and then you start to pick up another 20 or 30 new ones, and learn a few new readings here and there for the old ones.

    I think that the key is to not get yourself overwhelmed.

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  • The_Goon 2 Dec 2013 16:14:59 130 posts
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    Nice thread. I've been 'learning' Japanese on and off for many years now. I just don't have the time (or at least the motivation/dedication) to be devoting myself to learning the language.

    Frankly, it has started to click a bit lately and I don't think it is a terribly complex language grammatically. It all seems to make sense. The reading and writing is a clusterf**k but a matter of learning I think. I think once I have a good base of vocabulary, I'll be ok. Slowly working my way through Core2k at the moment with some new anki decks which are pretty ace. Going over the same word in multiple formats really helps drive it home. I previously just learned them English to Japanese but it's a bit too easy to breeze through them like that and not take them in.

    Will pop back into this thread for help in the future I'm sure!
  • boo 12 Feb 2014 22:07:56 11,785 posts
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    Evening.

    I've been looking up the kanji Sai / Hosoi which (according to my dictionary) means 'slender' or 'minute'.

    I need to find the opposite Kanji, but while the obvious one (at least in English) would be 'wide', I get the feeling that that isn't the case. Wide to me says vast expanses of land, roads etc, whereas slender seems more like it applies to things rather than spaces.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction?

    Cheers!

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • Nazo 12 Feb 2014 22:16:30 357 posts
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    Wife reckons it's futoi. 太
  • uiruki 12 Feb 2014 22:19:35 3,704 posts
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    The opposite of 細い is 太(ふと)い. That's skinny and fat (or fine as in details and broad as in strokes). Narrow (as in cramped) and wide (as in spacious) are 狭(せま)い and 広(ひろ)い.

    edit: I noticed on that site the way they present stroke order isn't pedantic enough for a learner IMO - if you've got an iOS device, Midori is well worth the cash. For something like 6 it beat the pants off my old electronic dictionary for J/E (mostly because I've not found a Japanese-made J/E dictionary which isn't useless) and it has better presented stroke order diagrams with animations.

    Edited by uiruki at 22:22:14 12-02-2014
  • boo 12 Feb 2014 22:30:17 11,785 posts
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    Excellent - thanks both (and Mrs Nazo!).

    I'll take a look at Midori, too.

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  • boo 6 Mar 2014 15:33:11 11,785 posts
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    Hayulp! Hayulp!

    I need to make some simple sentences describing what I think about various things, using the form 'Watashi wa.... to omoimasu.'

    For example, I could say 'I think Tokyo is too busy' with 'Watashi wa toukyou isogashi sugiru to omoimasu'.

    I'd like to be able to say 'I think Japanese people speak too quickly', but I don't have the vocabulary for it. I'm guessing it would be something like :

    'Watashi wa nihon-jin hanasu satto sugiru to omoimasu'

    Is that anywhere close to being correct?

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • Nazo 6 Mar 2014 15:51:15 357 posts
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    Is this for a class or something? To me it sounds a bit odd to start the sentence with 'Watashi wa', Japanese wouldn't usually say it as it's obvious from the context who is doing the thinking.
    Isogashii is busy as in busy doing something so I don't think you can apply it to a city, maybe you mean crowded?

    I'd go with:
    Tokyo wa hito ga oosugiru to omoimasu (I think there are too many people in Tokyo)
    Nihonjin no hanashi wa hayasugiru to omoimasu (I think Japanese people's speech is too fast)
  • boo 6 Mar 2014 16:15:57 11,785 posts
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    Thanks Nazo. I'm afraid I'm still at the point where I put 'Watashi wa' in front of most (relevant) sentences - you're right, I probably don't need it.

    Thanks again!

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • boo 12 Mar 2014 21:05:36 11,785 posts
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    Anyone know what oyoi ( およい ) means? It's not a word I'm familiar with.

    I'm doing some homework, and there's a picture of a guy standing on a beach, and the question is:

    うみ で およい だ と おもいますか

    It's a 'What do you think...?' question, and I know umi = beach, but I'm confused by oyoi.

    Cheers!

    Edited by boo at 21:05:58 12-03-2014

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 12 Mar 2014 22:42:21 11,324 posts
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    泳いだ=およいだ=swam.

    It's the past tense of the verb to swim, 泳ぐ=およぐ. :-)

    The question will be "Do you think he swam in the sea?"

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  • boo 12 Mar 2014 22:49:46 11,785 posts
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    Ah!
    Cheers, TG. Much appreciated!

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • Telepathic.Geometry 13 Mar 2014 02:08:12 11,324 posts
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    No bother. :)

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  • ryohazuki1983 24 Jul 2014 11:42:59 735 posts
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    Hi Guys, I'm going to Japan in September and want to learn some basic phrases to help me get about/ask for directions and be respectful by at least attempting to speak the lingo.

    I've read a book on the 400 most popular Kanji so at least hopefully I'll be able to tell roughly what signs/shops are.

    Any recommendations on books etc ?

    I was thinking about watching the 80s TV show (and the second series) but wondering what's best.
  • siro 28 Jul 2014 11:24:11 1,827 posts
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    Oh, I saw your post on the weekend being two days old, which usually means Telepathic.Geometry answered the Japanese question already. Seems I was wrong. ;)

    I can strongly recommend the textbook "Genki", which is an excellent course on beginner's Japanese. It is decidedly not cheap, but concentrates on just the right stuff and helps you progress well. Since the countless moons gone by since I used it, I have seen many other beginner's books, but clearly none were structured this well with the learner's position in mind. Best go with the extra excercise book as well.

    I remember others having recommended the book here before, too, so it's not just me. Here's a in-depth review of it:
    http://www.tofugu.com/2008/02/28/japanese-textbook-review-genki-i/

    On Amazon a second edition is available, which I don't know, but I can vouch for the original, which is also much cheaper on there. Maybe the newer one uses "Smartphone" instead of "Telephone"? Just remember "スマホ" and we got that covered. ;)
  • ryohazuki1983 28 Jul 2014 11:53:27 735 posts
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    Excellent, thanks for the recommendation, you get what you pay for I guess.

    Purchased!
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 28 Jul 2014 12:29:33 592 posts
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    Genki is the common one. I preferred Minna no Nihongo but that would cost more and Genki should be fine for your purposes. If you want to doublecheck grammar understanding after getting the basics Tae Kim's www.guidetojapanese.org is a very good site.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 28 Jul 2014 14:17:28 11,324 posts
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    Sorry, I saw your post a while back but was too busy to reply, and assumed that somebody had already answered. >.<

    I think Genki is a very gentle beginner's book, and you can learn some good basics from it, but if you ever decide you wanna get serious and really learn Japanese, Minna no Nihongo is invaluable.

    Also, I really feel that you should make a serious effort to learn kana (hiragana and katakana) from the get go. It's fun and it pays dividends in the long run. When you master the kana, you can start in on the easier kanji too, which feels and is really rewarding.

    If you need any advice along the way, feel free to ask, there are loads of really helpful people in here, as you can probably already tell. :)

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  • siro 29 Jul 2014 13:39:12 1,827 posts
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    Wow, I'm surprised about the love for Minna no Nihongo here. I was tutoring at Uni and was appalled when the teacher's switched to that. It seemed to me that everyone had a much harder time with the bascis then. Which is the one phase where you really need to buckle down.

    @ryohazuki1983 I'm sure you'll be satisfied with your purchase. :)

    This may be interesting additional info: the two Genki books are designed to be done one hundred hours each and each has about 12 lessons. At Uni, one chapter per week was done, which was a good speed to cope with. So if you dedicated 1 hour a day and 2 on the weekend, you'll finish them in half a year.
    You'll be well beyond JLPT level 4 and with some additional Kanji studying, you can pass JLPT 3 as well (Genki has about 300 Kanji, and JLPT requires 650). If you don't use that language to speak with actual human begins, practically you'll not be able to converse with anyone, but that will be the case no matter the amount of study. :)

    I totally agree on the Kana learning point TG raised. I'd say as much as it is mandatory to get to any level of progress, really. I memorized them first before any actual study. It doesn't take too long. In Uni, we were supposed to learn them in one week, which is a bit extreme - I was so glad at the time I did that in advance.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 29 Jul 2014 13:52:50 11,324 posts
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    @siro I should qualify my earlier statement about Minna no Nihongo. I really enjoyed the Genki books, and I absolutely fucking hated the Minna no Nihongo books.

    BUT!

    I made fuck-tonnes more progress and development of my Japanese using Minna no Nihongo, which is why I think that for easily discouraged students, Genki is your man. For people who - for one reason or another - are committed to studying Japanese, I think you will defo benefit from manning up, and taking on Minna no Nihongo.

    P.S. I don't mean to take a shit on people who aren't committed to Japanese. I know for many it's a hobby, and that's cool if you wanna take it at a more leisurely pace and enjoy it. Minna no Nihongo is like havin' your teeth kicked in every day at boot-camp, but like with boot-camp, it has some positive effects, even if the training sucks arse.

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  • siro 29 Jul 2014 20:34:19 1,827 posts
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    @Telepathic.Geometry Haha, I just came in from the link in the email, so ended up on page 1. Guess, who recommended the book there. Did you start with them and then switched to MnH...?

    I still don't share the reocmmendation, but each to their own as long as it leads somewhere. We got a terrible book in second year. Just checked and it seems I don't have it anymore... vaguely remember I threw it away. Something with 301 in the title, I think.

    I'll check that guide by Tae Kim. Sounds interesting. I always thought I'd like to design a beginner's text book. Will never happen, of course. :p
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