Perfect Dark Zero Review

By Kristan Reed Published 1 December, 2005

Not Perfect, quite dark, and no, not a zero out of ten.

Version tested: Xbox 360

Zen of gaming, indeed.

If Microsoft was hoping that Perfect Dark Zero was going to be one of the pillar launch titles to usher in the next generation in a blaze of glory, then it must be - deep down - pretty disappointed. Let's not beat around the bush. Microsoft wanted, needed, another Halo-sized launch title, but Perfect Dark Zero most definitely isn’t it.

The plain, unpalatable, inescapable truth is that Rare's latest shooter is worryingly far away from being a classic. Through gritted teeth you could admit that it's "a respectable, solid, mostly entertaining secret agent FPS". Being diplomatic you might well concede that it’s "a good genre offering" that "devoted FPS fans will enjoy", but that sounds so glib. In the context of a high-profile next generation blockbuster, such down-played compliments sound like insults.

It needed to be a GoldenEye-beater, a Halo-killer, a game to send Valve and id back to the drawing board. The annoying thing is, the only thing it's likely to kill is Rare's already waning reputation for triple A' perfection. It's a solid follow-up to a five year-old N64 title with some decent multiplayer elements. And that's all it'll ever be.

Dark relief

Much like Rare's other two celebrated spy FPSs, PDZ continues down the same path and even gets the Bond tributes out of the way before you've so much as reached the menu screen. As expected, you're treated to all the gadgets, stealth-lite and back-to-base communication that goes with being the queen of espionage. In addition to a standard loadout of all the familiar weapons (of which you can generally only carry two at a time, though a third slot offers dual-wield for a select few, as well as occasional grenades) you also get a few standard context-sensitive gadgets: the Locktopus (bet you can't guess what this does), the hacking Data Thief, the destructive Demo Kit, not to mention some one-off high tech items like the remote-controlled CamSpy and the sound-enhancing Audioscope. Rare resists the temptation to overload the spy element too much, though. First person Splinter Cell this is not.

Predictably, such high tech espionage comes at a price; your detection is ruthlessly punished by well-armed and heavily armoured enemy patrols just itching to put bullets into your perfectly coiffeured skull. As such, it's clear right from the word go that PDZ doesn't really adhere to the run and gun premise most other titles in this over-crowded genre are happy to peddle - unless you completely cop-out and play it on the ridiculously forgiving Agent difficulty level, that is.

The surprising thing that hits you almost immediately about PDZ is its steep learning curve and unrelenting desire to finish you off as quickly as possible. Throughout the entire game Joanna Dark is consistently poking her nose in places it's not wanted, and needless to say, exposing a corporate web of conspiracy puts you in the firing line of all manner of patrolling sentries. Just one misplaced head-shot is often enough to provoke a cavalry charge that exposes your frailty with ruthless efficiency.

Charge of the dark brigade

'Perfect Dark Zero' Screenshot barrels

Barrels that actually explode. Truly.

With little choice but to either restart or face them head on (and no opportunity to run or hide until they go back to their patrols) you'll regularly find yourself fending off a dozen enemies at once. If that wasn't a daunting enough prospect, Joanna's armed with guns that, for the majority of the game, can't take them down with a single clip. With such a resolute enemy barrage to contend with, the principle challenge you'll face is trying to kill them without copping too many bullets in return. Sometimes a clean headshot is enough, but other times their helmet protection cancels out that little advantage. With Kevlar vests and helmets to shatter first, it's often several rounds before you've seen off a single enemy - and dealing with that while also keeping a close eye on your health situation is a big ask when there's more than two or three AIs taking pot-shots at your head.

One of the main aspects to put the player at a disadvantage is that unlike the standard health pack/health station system almost all FPSs favour, Joanna is fitted with a recharge system that refills your bar if you can avoid damage for a few seconds. Although it's Halo-esque, the overall maximum hit points permanently degrade, leaving you progressively disadvantaged. With the twin menace of health concerns (less so on the easy mode) and a sluggish reload system to contend with (there's no automatic reload, annoyingly), the combat's a real challenge. Much more so than your average FPS.

This would be okay if the encounters felt as fun as the best FPSs out there. We don't mind a challenge, but when the game lacks basic AI sophistication and aggravates the player with questionable gameplay ethics, the marks are chipped away. Enemies seem to be either on pre-programmed patrols or charging mob-handed directly at you, with precious little evidence of working as a team to, for example, out-flank you. With the odds so heavily against you, they don't really need to be all that clever - they just charge, zig-zag around like the most irritating online bots and generally don't look remotely convincing. Eventually, you discover that the best tactic is to either retreat and funnel them Pied Piper-style down corridors and take them down up-close one by one, or find some distant cover and continually pop out when appropriate. Halo won people over via excellent AI which provided that trademark "thirty seconds of fun over and over," but here it's an entirely different experience that's a little at odds with what you might want or expect from a console shooter.

Dark-headed

'Perfect Dark Zero' Screenshot fingerless

Never mind the dual wield grenade/PSP combo, check out the fingerless gloves!

To compound matters, you're also robbed of the ability to save your progress (and only a single mid-level checkpoint offering any respite) meaning you're forced to encounter a long-forgotten degree of trial and error to make progress. And, yet, after all this, the game is constantly hand-holding the player by laying down path chevrons to guide you directly to where you should be heading next. What it gives with one hand it punches you in the face with the other. We really don't get that at all. It's as if Microsoft pointed out the game was a little on the tricky side and this was the only compromise Rare could come up with. Daft.

But, despite the core combat, health and saving mechanics being at odds with most of the FPS competition, and the silly path pointers being a giant insult to your intelligence, the more you play it, the more these design decisions begin to justify themselves. What you don’t realise in the initial stages is that none of PDZ's levels are all that big, or take that long to finish, so it's reasonable for Rare to assume that quicksave shenanigans and less tough combat would make the whole thing a cakewalk and rob the whole game of the tension of sleuthy battle. About halfway through it all starts to feel strangely enjoyable. Far from cursing Rare's existence, it feels different and actually quite engaging. Even with the path pointers.

Indeed, once you fail five, ten, fifteen times and gradually chip your way towards level completion, you'll often surprise yourself at the extent of your struggle. With hindsight, once you know what you're doing and where things are, it's never as tough as you thought. Hell, once you've got the whole thing nailed, you can generally go back and rip through most levels again in ten minutes, give or take. No wonder Rare didn't offer quicksave facilities. No wonder it takes a few rounds to see off enemies. No wonder it's best to work out a stealthier approach.

Darker fuel

'Perfect Dark Zero' Screenshot foliage

Despite everything we said, Rare does do a nice line in pretty jungle foliage.

Nevertheless, as an experienced FPS-player schooled in the norms of the genre, you're not to know that. For the first few hours you'll probably curse the game for taking such glee in sending you back to the start of a mission you've been sweating over for ages. It's an old-school approach where precise stats are measured on an online Leaderboard for you to compare against the best players in the world. But like most old-school approaches, they're great for the embattled hardcore, but annoying as hell for the masses Microsoft wants to reach. If the Redmond giant really wants to reach a billion players, then it had better start making games that everyone will enjoy. As admirable as it is to see Rare following some of the design principles laid down in GoldenEye and Perfect Dark in producing a game as challenging as this, it's one that seems out of place in today's market. One that's inexplicably targeted at those of a dogged, persistent nature: those that don't mind replaying the same level from scratch dozens of times until they finally crack it.

While persistence really does reap its own rewards (and the excellent online Leaderboards that detail every possible performance stat and endless Gamerscore achievements provide an excellent incentive to go back and show off just how good you are), and Perfect Dark Zero slowly emerges as an entertaining game on its own merits, there's still the nagging feeling that it's not a game worthy of the 360. The visuals are the real giveaway, delivering a degree of fidelity that wouldn't look out of place on the original Xbox. Sure, played in high def it's reasonably impressive, but leagues away from getting near some of the best looking PC titles of the past 12 months. The real killer is the distinctly rubbery, glossy feel about everything. If you're not cringing at the latex enemies and their bizarre ragdoll death animations then you'll baulk at the artificial shininess of the world around you. Rocks should be gritty and harsh, not slick and shiny. Waterfalls shouldn't look like molten acrylic. Artistically, it's just not at the races.

But it goes further than some unwise texture designs and waxwork enemies. The level designs are carved out of standard issue Xbox stone, and everything from their size, scale and ambition just reeks of conventional thinking. Cranking up the resolution and cloaking the whole thing in a glossy ooze doesn't make it next gen by any stretch of the imagination. Even Microsoft's Peter Moore admitted as much recently.

Live a little

'Perfect Dark Zero' Screenshot hurt

What these idiots don't realise is that bullets in their shins REALLY HURT.

As you might expect, the multiplayer elements help a little - especially online (though System Link and split-screen is available offline) - but certainly nowhere near enough. Perhaps the best part of the package is the ability to engage in bona-fide co-operative multiplayer over Live. For once, that doesn’t simply mean playing side by side and doubling up the firepower. For once, some of the levels have been designed with co-op in mind. For example, the much-demoed third level has Joanna providing cover fire for her father Jack as he hops from one point of the level to the next. In the single player campaign Jack's AI controlled, but co-op lets you take direct control of his actions, making the experience a much more engaging affair all-round.

The only problem with this is that the reason it's so much more engaging is probably more down to the fact that the computer-controlled Jack can be such a complete doofus, forever getting himself killed even when you're busy firing off head-shots left and right. It's almost more engaging to play in co-op by default - although it's fair to say that relying on a pal to be any better at the game is a leap of faith all of its own. Even so, it's nice to see some thought being devoted to collaborative multiplayer than merely trawling out deathmatch mode for the 217th time of asking.

That's not to say that Rare resisted the temptation to play to the crowd, though. It hardly warrants a mention that all the favourite modes are here, from standard deathmatch (killcount), a team version, Capture the Flag and the node gathering domination mode Territorial Gains. Of the four, Territorial gains worked best by actually lending some degree of purpose and variety to the unending slaughter. Rare definitely also gets a big thumbs up for including the hugely entertaining Hovercrafts and Jetpacks to climb into and roar around in. Small additions for sure, but ones that help make up for the overall snail's pace of Joanna's running speed and inject a lot of fun into the proceedings.

Give me hope, Joanna

'Perfect Dark Zero' Screenshot jetpac

Jetpacs = enormous fun. Probably the best thing about the whole game, in fact.

On the flip-side there's the Dark Ops multiplayer, which adds a little more flavour thanks to its more tactical, slower-paced approach. Played over a series of rounds, you first get to buy your weapons - Counter-Strike-style - and then earn cash subsequently for kills and accomplishing objectives.

In terms of modes, Eradication is a straight-up last man standing team-based affair, Onslaught is an interesting 'best time wins' defend/attack the base team game, but only gives the defending team one life, against an infinitely respawning opposition. Infection, meanwhile pits the infected against the uninfected, with players scoring points if they either remain uninfected or manage to wipe out the uninfected. Slightly confusing premise, but a lot of fun. Finally, the hilarious team-only Sabotage involves trying to cause as much damage to your opponent's property as possible. Hurrah, endorsed vandalism! Jack Thompson, here's your next case!

We're 2000 words on: what's here? Despite so evidently wanting to provide us with a game in the spirit of its previous shooters, Perfect Dark Zero lacks either the atmosphere or the design brilliance of Rare's previous examples to step out of their shadows. In many senses, it spends too much time gazing fondly back at the past rather than embracing an exciting future. As a result, the single player campaign trips over its own shoelaces in forgetting that keeping the player constantly entertained should always be any game's raison d'être. Too much of the time Rare's needlessly bashing the player over the head and forcing you into a level of trial and error that requires an extensive investment of time from the player before they can really start to have the fun they paid their money for. Any game that demands the player work hard for their fun is asking for trouble in this day and age - and frankly we're baffled by an approach that's completely contradictory to all the messages Microsoft has been sending out over the past six months.

Alone again, or...

'Perfect Dark Zero' Screenshot rabbit

Is a robot doing bunny rabbit ears in this shot?

The fact that the multiplayer angle manages to rescue the package somewhat does save the project from the dire fate you've probably been predicting. Admittedly, the game's best enjoyed this way, but whether the majority of the audience will be rushing to join the Live bandwagon is unknown at this point. Certainly, we Europeans seem a little resistant to doing so, in which case many of you will miss out on the game's real saving grace.

But even with some solid multiplayer gaming on offer, it still only just warrants a seven. When you've battled through all 14 single player levels, played it on co-op and worked your way through some solid multiplayer action, you won’t feel like you've played a next generation title; heck, you won't even feel like you've played the best shooter out this Christmas. It's too evident that it's a decent title designed for the Xbox and belatedly buffed up to an HD shine, and that’s really no way to go about producing a next-gen launch title. Entirely on its own merits, Perfect Dark Zero is not a bad game by any means, but in the context of being as an introduction to the next generation Perfect Dark Zero misses the mark by a disappointing margin. To release a game lacking real spark and inspiration at this stage is not good news for anyone, least of all Rare and Microsoft. Both need to think long and hard about where they go from here.

7 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kristan.

About Kristan Reed

Kristan is a former editor of Eurogamer, dad, Stone Roses bore and Norwich City supporter who sometimes mutters optimistically about Team Silent getting back together.

Read more articles from Kristan by visiting the Kristan Reed archive page.

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Comments (204) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Hunam85 #1 6 years ago

    Who called the 7 stamp then?

    /hats off

  • Teeth #2 6 years ago

    So hold on... not as good as H*SMACK*

    /thud

  • Furbs #3 6 years ago

    LOL
    /waits for rush of GameRankings links PROVING this score is wrong.

  • ecureuil #4 6 years ago

    Most people predicted 7 for this..

  • Mirkan #5 6 years ago

    Well, I expected 6 really, cause Kameo got 5 and this has guns and deathmatch.

  • Daan #6 6 years ago

    Good score. I'd give it an 8/10, but a 7 will do as well I guess. I'm loving the multiplayer :)

  • Dizzy #7 6 years ago

    >/waits for rush of GameRankings links PROVING this score is wrong.

    Hehe.... one *could* provide a gameranking link where ALL lowest scores for 360 games are written by a certain website though.

    "It needed to be a GoldenEye-beater, a Halo-killer, a game to send Valve and id back to the drawing board."

    I am not sure if Rare really was trying to do that. I think they wanted to have a good FPS for the people who remembered to original with good integration with Live. I am not sure if the ambitions were ever that high. I think MS is leaving that to Bungie... they have more time and a much better platform (Halo) to build on. 7-8 is probably about right I guess.... MS wanted a wide range of good games in different genres as launch games, the really killer stuff can just not be done as a launchgame except in really rare instances (Halo and Mario 64) because of hardware/time constraints.

    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 15:48

  • octo #8 6 years ago

    So it's hard?

    Or unfairly hard?

    Or just too hard for the mass market?

    And rubbery. And glossy when it shouldn't be?

    This is one of the most confusing reviews I've ever read, yet I agree almost completely with the score (based on my limited exposure to the unfinished game).

  • Trendyninja #9 6 years ago

    It's nice to see someone who's got the balls to review this game honestly.

  • krudster #10 6 years ago

    It's not that it's too hard - just too hard for the masses.

  • petebritish #11 6 years ago

    I keep wanting to buy a 360 but there really isn't a killer app to justify it. Damn all this hype. Even the missus has said I am surprised that I am not begging for a machine. Please Microsoft bring out a killer title while the wife has the cash.

  • freedumb #12 6 years ago

    They've done a Deus Ex: Invisible War, good, but not as great as the original, and somewhat dumbed down. You only have to look at the character design, and the removal of being a secret agent to be a bounty hunter, and what seems to be a mediocre plot and voice acting that kills the atmosphere of the original.

    For some odd reason, I still think the graphic design, and level design of the original actually looks better, then Zero. Everything isn't bump-mapped and normal mapped to the extreme, everything doens't look so rubbery and shiny.

    Kameo and PD0 were both last gen titles that have been shoved quickly to the 360 for launch. I'd like to see their new games that are designed FOR the 360.
    Edited by 3 at 01/12/05 @ 16:04

  • Blerk #13 6 years ago

    Fifteen comments and no screaming fanboys yet? I'm disappointed. :-)

  • Mirkan #14 6 years ago

    It'll be so funny when EG realises that all "next gen" games play exactly like current gen games and they'll be forced to drop the attitude and just treat them like.. games.

    With PGR3 they couldn't even justify ripping the game apart because it plays exactly like PGR2, so their attitude already has consistency issues.

    "THIS IS NEXT GEN!" they cried when they saw what was essentially just a really pretty version of the tried and tested FPS genre, yet graphics doesn't make a game next gen when it comes to reviewing these.

    I love it when people have strong principles, and I love it when they completely trip over them and fall on their faces.

    Oh well, it'll blow over eventually. If nothing else, it will when the PS3 comes out and Tekken is still Tekken, Killzone is still Killzone and Devil May Cry is Devil May Cry.. all just with prettier graphics.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 15:55

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #15 6 years ago

    Blerk: You spoke to soon

    Mirkan: Err, do you realise we gave PGR3 8/10 which is a very good score?

  • Mirkan #16 6 years ago

    I do indeed, hence why I used it as an example of a game that plays exactly like a current gen game, but somehow that's okay.

  • Carlo #17 6 years ago

    ROFL!

    Perfect Dark Seven out of Ten... That's what they'll call it

  • oceanmotion #18 6 years ago

    Good review. I agree on the negatives. Don't know what Rare was thinking with the art design etc.. Back to the drawing board for Rare. Please no more titles designed for Gamecube/Xbox and then made for the 360. I have'nt played a good Rare game since Donkey Kong I think. Get it sorted Rare espicially the art, UI, AI,, voice etc.. departments. End of rant :D

    Also, would the writers stop using that BILLION comment. Microsoft meant the industry as a whole not just them. Get some reading comprehension!

  • Furbs #19 6 years ago

    Mirkan, if you are saying the 360 games play exactly like Xbox games then damn right they should be marked down. Thats not "attitude" thats "whats the point in this costing more?"

    We should be looking for more with the new consoles, not just more polygons.

  • Tomo #20 6 years ago

    I see your point Mirkan, if no one else does.

  • Tomo #21 6 years ago

    And I see Furbs point.

  • nick_f Verified Senior Producer, Microsoft #22 6 years ago

    Kameo 5/10
    PDZ 7/10

    ...R4re am cRy

  • caligari #23 6 years ago


    Me thinks Mirkan is feeling a little miffed about the big hole burnt in his wallet.

    ALSO, I admit I was wrong...I predicted a CONTROVERSIAL 10/10 for this game. You know, just to be CONTROVERSIAL.

    Heh, I bet 360 doesn't have a CAPS LOCK.

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #24 6 years ago

    I love it when people have strong principles, and I love it when they completely trip over them and fall on their faces.

    How ironic

  • l_p_4_7 #25 6 years ago

    I must say it doesn't look that great. Halo 2 or Doom 3 (or even Far Cry) running on a top spec PC easily beats it.

  • thegamesthething #26 6 years ago

    "Also, would the writers stop using that BILLION comment. Microsoft meant the industry as a whole not just them. Get some reading comprehension!"

    this is coming, right after they own up about Killzone 2 :)

    back OT, good review of a relatively competent but unspectacular shooter, seems to me - all that stuff about needing to be a Halo beater is cobblers, but hes nailed PD0 i think, dont give the 360 back to Tom please :)

  • Dizzy #27 6 years ago

    >We should be looking for more with the new consoles, not just more polygons.

    Like what?

  • caligari #28 6 years ago


    Also if I was an alien / terrorist / demon trying to take over the world, I would make sure I keep ALL THE FREAKING EXPLOSIVE BARRELS in the cellar.

    JUST INCASE some @sshole decides to start blowing them up with his pistol and ruins my plans for world domination.

  • Blerk #29 6 years ago

    Please no more titles designed for Gamecube/Xbox and then made for the 360.

    This is RARE we're talking about - these two games will be all you'll get from them this generation. They'll be starting work on Xbox 720 titles now. :-)

  • jmctavish #30 6 years ago

    Why critisicise this game for not dumbing down? Surely a challenging game is a good thing? I remember constantly restarting Goldeneye levels on the higher difficulty settings, but it was still great fun.

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #31 6 years ago

    There's loads of potential for the Xbox 360, it's a shame that it looks as though we'll be waiting a while for people to realise it.

  • oceanmotion #32 6 years ago

    l_p_4_7

    Technically PDZ wipes the floor with those titles but everything else is just an opinion.

  • Furbs #33 6 years ago

    Dizzy - Better AI, larger, free roaming environments, better physics etc etc etc. I'm no game designer though...Dont get me wrong, I'm not in the "innovation is king" camp at all, and I accept no launch title is ever going to really show off a machine. It seems to me though, other than graphically, theres nothing here (or the EA games, or Kameo) which couldnt be done on something we all have in our homes already.

  • Trendyninja #34 6 years ago

    I've watched loads of videos for this game and in my opinion it looks unbelievably boring to play. It just doesn't have that must pick up and play vibe for me. I’ve mentioned to some people over at the OXM 360 forum about the overly shiny graphics but was told it just a graphical style that looks neat. Well I agree with the EG review, it looks way too much, almost as if everything is wet?! Talk about overkill.

    OXM gave this a 9 out of 10 for those that might be interested.

  • Mirkan #35 6 years ago

    Furbs; Personally I'm looking for good, enjoyable games, and I think it's rediculous to expect more just because it's got more power.

    To this day we still gladly play "old school" games now and then, and the reason there's even an expression called "old school" in relation to games is because we somehow consider old concepts less viable as we go along.

    The notion that games have to become more complex and change is justified, and that kind of change does come regardless, but neglecting what's essentially just a very well crafted and fun game because it's on a new platform is just something I don't understand.

    Maybe consoles bring this on themselves by having clear generation jumps, but you just don't get that with PCs that change constantly over time.

    So what if it was coming out on Xbox before and was touched up and put on the 360? What harm is there in aknowledgning a job well done even though the format it's presented on is different from where it started out as long as it's a good game by "current gen" standards? I just don't get it.

    PGR3 got away with it on this site, but PDZ and Kameo have a harder time obviously. I dunno just what contributes to that, but it's a gut feeling they just don't sit as well from a design and content standpoint. That's difficult and unfair to speculate about though, despite the fact that I jokingly said that guns and multiplayer was the reason earlier.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 16:15

  • krudster #36 6 years ago

    Mirkan...all of the criticisms would have applied if the game was on Xbox. But the fact it's on a hugely powerful console means the consumer has every right to expect more than "more of the same".

    For a start MS is charging £5-£10 more for it!

  • Trendyninja #37 6 years ago

    Mirkan you make some good points and mostly of which I agree with. But don't you think it's vitally important for a console launch game to be able to do something completely new and refreshing? Which lets be honest here, is exactly what Halo did.

    As an Xbox game PD0 would have probably scored a very high 9, possibly a 10. But for a next gen game, it seems not to be impressing a lot of people. I find it worrying and very disappointing. RARE should have stuck their heels in firmer and kept to their policy of "It'll be ready when it's ready".
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 16:17

  • freedumb #38 6 years ago

    But it pretty much IS an xbox game that was moved to the 360 by mircosoft. Its more a spruced up port than a real next gen title.

    Edited by 4 at 01/12/05 @ 16:24

  • Wrobel #39 6 years ago

    @Krudster

    For those picking up a 360 tommorow anyway what games would you recomend they get?

  • d0bbo #40 6 years ago

    I don't see why people expect 'next-gen' games to contain some kind of spangly new gameplay experience. It's better graphics... and that's about it. OK so there's more grunt for AI and bigger environements etc., but these are just the same old games made by the same old developers - sequals that look very nice, but are essentially sequels none the less.

  • squeakyg #41 6 years ago

    "The real killer is the distinctly rubbery, glossy feel about everything. If you're not cringing at the latex enemies and their bizarre ragdoll death animations then you'll baulk at the artificial shininess of the world around you. Rocks should be gritty and harsh, not slick and shiny."

    I hear you. I never thought the whole "normal mapping" thing looked good. It makes everything look like moulded plastic. Brick walls look like a plastic mould of a brick wall, metal walls look like a plastic mould of a metal wall, etc.

    It isn't being used as a step towards realism. How can I believe the environment I'm playing in is real, when it looks like I'm inside a cheaply-made plastic-moulded set? It adds so much artificiality.

  • Trendyninja #42 6 years ago

    freedumb, well I guess that makes the 7 score even more fitting. :)

  • Furbs #43 6 years ago

    Thats fair enough Mirkan, but lets suppose you have something like King Kong. Its identical on both systems, in everyway except the graphics, even though the Xbox 1 version is taxing the system more and is £10 cheaper (not to mention you dont have to buy a new console and TV to appreciate it to its fullest). Isnt it fair that the cheaper game gets a better mark, even if both versions are great?

  • The_Bends #44 6 years ago

    The point is EG consistently reviews games in context. It reviewed B&W2 in relation to the hype and the problems of the first game and therefore gave it a scathing review slightly at odds with an average score. They're doing the same thing with the launch of the 360. You can't simply say 'well, this is the same as the title from 5 years ago that blew us away but this has better graphics sooooo 11/10', you have to move on. In the light of a next gen console the scale should be somewhat revised because something will come along and blow everyone out of the water with a true 10/10 game. If you give all the launch titles strong scores because of their impressive visuals and 3 year old gameplay then who's going to notice.

    The launch is a crucial time for any console and games that appear at this time should be reviewed with a critical eye.

  • krudster #45 6 years ago

    Condemned is the only one I'd personally buy, followed by PGR3 and Call of Duty 2 (if I hadn't already got it on PC). If I had to buy one, though, Condemned.

  • Trendyninja #46 6 years ago

    That is the only game I will have for tomorrow Krudster.

  • Mirkan #47 6 years ago

    Krudster; That's exactly my point! Because generation jumps are so obvious with consoles, people expect a significant change, whereas PC games don't have that and will never suffer that same fate. PDZ is coming out a couple of months after Far Cry Instincts, and because it's on a "next gen" console it can't be "as good" to get as good a score. Subsequently, a game that actually plays worse that came out months ago could get a better score than a game that comes out now that for all intents and purposes is a better game.

    I just find it to be a weird philosophy.

    As I said, the power will eventually lead to different/bigger/more ambitious games, but the fact that a really good game can't just be that to get a good score sends a weird message to the countless readers who actually take the reviewer's score as fact. They will interpret it as a 7 by today's standards, not by some kind of estimation of expectations that differ from gamer to gamer anyway.

    I couldn't make my argument apply to plain Xbox games even if I tried, because I hardly see how the problem would arise in the first place. :)
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 16:33

  • smelly #48 6 years ago

    I don't see why people expect 'next-gen' games to contain some kind of spangly new gameplay experience. It's better graphics... and that's about it.

    Well in that case, why on hell pay 400+ quid for just better graphics?

    Back in the day, when i were a lad and all that, the difference between spectrum and amiga graphics was EXTREME, but yet still people kept with their spectrums for the games. This is no-where near the same leap, but yet people are buying into it.

    Why? For the exact same reason that crap like westlife/xfactor/etc sells : Hype/fashion.

    One of these days people will buy music/movies/games because they are worth listening to/watching/playing (respectively), until then, people will be happy playing shit, better graphics.

    But hey, at least we're not all still playing Street fighter 2 v539324 "kens new haircut edition".


  • Carlo #49 6 years ago

    "Predictably, such high tech espionage comes at a price; your detection is ruthlessly punished by well-armed and heavily armoured enemy patrols just itching to put bullets into your perfectly coiffeured skull."

    So they tried to make it like MGS??!?!?!?! (Edit Opps!)

    /and failed
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 16:57

  • Dizzy #50 6 years ago

    >But don't you think it's vitally important for a console launch game to be able to do something completely new and refreshing? Which lets be honest here, is exactly what Halo did.

    Maybe.. but only Halo and Mario 64 have been able to pull this off.

    I am pretty impressed with 360 launch lineup (as will be many buyers). A wide selction of good to great games, and the amazing stuff will come probably a bit later.

    >Well in that case, why on hell pay 400+ quid for just better graphics?

    Are you still using casette tapes? No.. so things change... new haredware comes along and people upgrade. Yeah that is exactly what it is "an upgrade" not some kind of breakthrough in computing power like some companies would like to portray their product.

    >Dizzy - Better AI, larger, free roaming environments, better physics etc etc etc. I'm no game designer though...

    Well I am ;) and I agree and I am sure those things will come in the second wave of titles. It is not because new hardware is here, that suddenly new incredible new gaming styles will be invented. EG has made the really big error of thinking that next gen consoles will suddenly bring next gen gaming (what *is* next gen gaming anyway? people still have to invent it). Everything in hardware and software is evolution and slowly things improve and new stuff is introduced. Maybe peopel are just comparing everything with Halo (a VERY rare thing that happened there). Compare it to other console launch titles and 360 looks like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

    There are some things that game designers are working on right now (not gonna go into details here) and these new ideas are a direct result of the multi-core design of the new console(s). So the work is just starting. Rare didn't have this luxury... but they made a pretty good game.

    That being said... the 360 *is* actually breaking some ground in the online field. The new Live stuff and Arcade is incredibly well done (for developers) and I am sure a lot of cool things will come out of that.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 16:33

  • Mirkan #51 6 years ago

    Furbs; I don't think it is. In fact, that example only heightens the bizarreness in the first place. I just don't see how the actual quality and appeal of a game would differ from one console to another, even if there's a so called generation jump. I feel as though people have this fluffy magical conception about "next gen" (probably all old farts like me who'd really like to go to bed and wake up to a different world of innovation and mind bogglingness.)

    To me, all I can expect from any format is a thoroughly enjoyable experience, and in the event of next generation gaming, I really just expect it to look better.

    As I said, I think change will come and I certainly welcome it (it's why I'm still here), but not at the snap of fingers and the spending of 300 quid.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 16:36

  • Mekah #52 6 years ago

    It seems as though they didn't really play the multi, given how little it was discussed. I would agree that the single player is no more than a 7-ish game, but the multiplayer, Dark Ops in particular, is brilliant.

  • krudster #53 6 years ago

    Mirkan, I'll say it again: this would score a 7 on Xbox. The platform is irrelevant here, it's not a classic game, end of chat.

  • krudster #54 6 years ago

    Mekah, I played multiplayer pretty much the whole of yesterday.

  • krudster #55 6 years ago

    And yes, there is a CoD 2 review coming soon.

  • Mekah #56 6 years ago

    And you don't think the multi deserves more credit, Krudster? Granted it doesn't really apply to non-Livers, but still.

  • Wrobel #57 6 years ago

    Mekah, I played multiplayer pretty much the whole of yesterday

    Lucky sod, some of us were working ;-)

  • Ignatius_Cheese #58 6 years ago

    Are the in-store demo stands for Xbox 360 not running at HD despite their quite nice Samsung screens? Or are the demos playing more "work in progress" than a console launching at the end of this week...? Am slightly confused and unimpressed...

    /waits patiently for a slap

  • Royal Fool #59 6 years ago

    One thing that I am interested in about the X360 is loading times. I haven't seen them discussed anywhere... are they comparable to the Xbox? Are they longer? It's not really a big selling point but I'm genuinely curious how it'll go, considering the improved power of the Xbox 360 and the fact that they're still just using DVDs...

  • nickyickywickywoo #60 6 years ago

    @Dizzy

    What games have you worked on?

  • krudster #61 6 years ago

    Load times are...quite fast, not hugely improved though.

  • Mirkan #62 6 years ago

    Krudster;Well, in fact that's the first time you say it, but okay, fair enough.

    By your own presented logic, that would imply this should score less than a 7 on the 360 then I suppose.

    *points to consistency flapping out the window*

    Sorry. :)

  • Chewy #63 6 years ago

    Is there an indication of the killer game for the 360? This is really pointed at the EG guys.

  • smelly #64 6 years ago

    Are you still using casette tapes? No.. so things change... new haredware comes along and people upgrade.

    Dont have a problem with that. What i dont understand is why people will upgrade before there is anything worth having.

    I 6 months, a years time when there are shed loads of games out, which arent just ports with nicer graphics. Then yeah, i'll get one. Until then, i'll stick with my current gen xbox and my copy of PGR-2 (and my cube obviously).

  • Chewy #65 6 years ago

    Sorry, I just need to clarify my question. I remember getting the N64 loved Super Mario. I also remember getting the GC, but soon traded it in because there was no killer game soon after it's release (I got it on import). I then got the xbox because of playing Halo at a mates. So, what is on the horizon for the 360? I'll just have to be satisfied with the DS until THE 360 game comes along.

    I'm picky when it comes to games it has to be enjoyable/compelling. I think that's because I'm an old git! :-)

  • Rich72 #66 6 years ago

    @ Krudster...Not sure if anyone has asked this.... but are the DVD limitations anything to be worried about i.e. filling up the whole game with improved graphical prowess but leaving little room for extra content? Will the PS3 have much more scope with BLU RAY... or will developers actually spend more time & money on this extra content?
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 17:00

  • Ninjamagic #67 6 years ago

    I nearly bought an XBOX 180.... then got a refund on my £20 at Gamestation when i realised i was 97th on the list.

    PDZ was the game i put my name down on to get as it seemed best of the bunch.

    Now im not so sure, and also probably a bit glad i didnt get a 360 yet. maybe when it drops in price who knows????

  • krudster #68 6 years ago

    I'm sure eventually people will find a use for the space, but for now...I doubt it makes a huge difference if all you're doing is filling it up with FMV.

  • Rich72 #69 6 years ago

    How much of the standard DVD does an average game use? surely MS has shot itself in the foot if there are severe limitations to what can be squeezed onto the current format!?
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 17:09

  • Roamer #70 6 years ago

    Bah! When it comes to consoles - there should be an immediate and distinct difference between current-gen and next-gen. There was one between nes and snes, snes and ps, and ps and ps2. Why should this 'next-gen' be any different?

    Prettier graphics do not a 'next-gen' make, at this point; the current-gen hardware has been powerful enough to realise most developers' visions. It's kind of sad that the only thing MS could think of was micropayments and high-def to differentiate the 360. All of these launch games would have been just as good on any current-gen platforms. Maybe even better, since they wouldn't have to be rushed to meet the launch deadline.

  • Furbs #71 6 years ago

    Most current gen games use between 2-3gb, theres very few which take advantage of dual layer though.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #72 6 years ago

    It seems a little bizarre and irrelevant to focus on whether the game's going to appeal to "the masses" when for the next several months at least, only a tiny handful of people will even have the *chance* to play it. Disappointingly, the review (like every other one published so far) fails to address the one question that I - and I suspect many thousands of others - really want answered:

    When sat alongside Goldeneye and the original PD (and taking the improved aesthetics as a given), is this: roughly as good; better; or worse? And in the case of the latter two, how much?

  • Mirkan #73 6 years ago

    Trendyninja

    "...But don't you think it's vitally important for a console launch game to be able to do something completely new and refreshing? Which lets be honest here, is exactly what Halo did."

    I agree that Halo was a remarkable achievement and as someone else said on here, together with Mario 64 possibly the best launch titles of any console. I also think (obviously) that it had a better shot at getting stuff right and that's true for Mario 64 aswell.

    For Mario 64, the fact that it was in 3D alone pretty much guarranteed that people wouldn't have experienced anything quite like it, and beyond that it still stands out as a remarkably well executed 3D platformer. Halo had the obvious advantage of being capable of rendering its huge worlds and even the Xbox controller itself ensured that it would play better than any FPS on console before it. I'm not taking anything away from those games, but they really had timing on their side aswell as being brilliant. You can go on and on about how those games were great and why and never really address the topic at hand, and the fact that good games are still good games though.

    So to answer your question more directly, I think it's more difficult right now to offer something decidedly different, simply because there's no clean cut difference between generations anymore except for "bigger" and "more". I think it's vitally important that games change on a whole, but as I stated earlier, I will never expect them to just because new hardware comes along. Katamari Damacy appeared on a 5 year old console and so did Shadow of The Colossus, that fact proves more than anything that innovation isn't tied to the release date of new hardware.

  • Teeth #74 6 years ago

    Rev. S. C.: the answer is clearly no, otherwise the score would clearly be higher. Also the review would clearly state as much, were that the case.

    "Blimey, this is just as good as if not better than goldeneye on the N64 was!" - it would say that.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 17:20

  • Mekah #75 6 years ago

    That depends. If you like a little more freedom in how you approach the levels, I think it's better than GE and PD. Of course, the more open design can lead to a little more confusion (and hence the directional markers which appear on the ground). Multiplayer creams both of them.*

    *But of course, it's not a real good introduction to "next generation", so it deserves only a 7, no matter how good it might be.

  • Rich72 #76 6 years ago

    Have been playing operation flashpoint recently. If that kind of scope could now be done with realistic enviroments, voice acting and animations I would be suitably impressed. I was surprised they managed to do such an open game on the xbox.

    Comparing the jump of the previous generations of machines is a little unfair.... 3D was introduced (fake 3D at that) then fully fledged enviroments... now surely they can only improve on the realism/immersion. radical game design changes are not next gen... simply a programers imaginary limitations

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #77 6 years ago

    Teeth: not in the context that's been raised here. It would appear - and there's a case to be made for the argument, though I don't personally hold with it - that if a game which was exactly as good as Goldeneye (let's call it Olden Pie) came out on the 360 tomorrow, it'd be marked down for not being "next gen" enough. But frankly, being Goldeneye with better graphics is *plenty* reason for me personally to buy a game, and that's all I want to know from a review of PDZ. Game design that's "fallen behind" Half-Life 2 is just fine and dandy with me.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 17:25

  • krudster #78 6 years ago

    Stu, making it in the same vein as its N64 efforts is evidently what Rare *tried* to do, and in some senses its succeeds (mission structure, stat-a-go-go, level of challenge) - but it's like a Beatles tribute act saying it's just made the next Revolver.

  • Rich72 #79 6 years ago

    let's hope disc.... that game would be awsome with better visuals and draw distances... not that they are too shoddy at the moment

  • ekko #80 6 years ago

    I'm dissappointed what type of company Rare has become, maybe I was just a young naive but their N64 games are still some of my favourites today, while their output since working with Microsoft has dropped.

    I would've loved PD0 to be the game which meant I needed an 360 (although my bank balance probably wouldn't have). I'm not a Halo fan so I'm not sure what 360 game is going to make me buy the console...

    I personally think this is pretty sad for British gaming, I hope they can rediscover their form but, I'm not optimistic.

  • Rich72 #81 6 years ago

    anyone got a HI DEF telly? played pro evo on it and it looked shockingly bad... the 50hz thing got anything to do with it? got a 37" LCD

  • Flightrisker #82 6 years ago

    Roamer: Bah! When it comes to consoles - there should be an immediate and distinct difference between current-gen and next-gen. There was one between nes and snes, snes and ps, and ps and ps2. Why should this 'next-gen' be any different?


    Prettier graphics do not a 'next-gen' make, at this point; the current-gen hardware has been powerful enough to realise most developers' visions.
    ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------


    So what was the non graphical difference between PS and PS2?

    I think we are all making the mistake of expecting the "16 bit 2d era" -> "32/64 bit 3d era" to be the norm. Mario Sunshine could have been done on the N64. Sure the graphics wouldn't have been as pretty, but where ws the "next-gen" leap?


    For the record, I think the 360 line up sucks. I have no intention of buying one until a great game comes out for it. I couldn't give a shit if it "delivers a next gen experience".
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 17:40

  • brombeer #83 6 years ago

    Only one word springs to mind here: rushed.

  • Mekah #84 6 years ago

    How do you know if the games are great or not if you don't have one?

  • Xerx3s #85 6 years ago

    Played it today (harhar), and think the review & score are fair nuff. The game has it flaws, but never the less quite fun to play. Would give it a 8 personally. Gonna go online later on, anyone fancy a game? ;p

    The review does point mention a few things that are a bit unfair imo (the reviewer comments on the difficulty lvl, A) The harder the better imo, B) It isnt that hard, havent died once yet unlike halo 2 where legendary is insanely hard on some points), but who am i to critisise.

    "It'll be so funny when EG realises that all "next gen" games play exactly like current gen games and they'll be forced to drop the attitude and just treat them like.. games. "

    Has a certain lvl of truth to it....

    "Also if I was an alien / terrorist / demon trying to take over the world, I would make sure I keep ALL THE FREAKING EXPLOSIVE BARRELS in the cellar.

    JUST INCASE some @sshole decides to start blowing them up with his pistol and ruins my plans for world domination. "

    Also has a certain lvl of thruth to it...

  • Flightrisker #86 6 years ago

    Mekah :How do you know if the games are great or not if you don't have one?

    Reviews.
    Word of mouth.
    TV Spots.
    Through Friends or Family.
    Magazines.
    All of the above.



    Sure I don't know there's no great games. But I have heard nothing but average to good reviews. There is no reason to buy this. Not because it's no "next-gen", but because it has lackluster titles, regardless of format.


  • fluff_the_tiger #87 6 years ago

    "Bah! When it comes to consoles - there should be an immediate and distinct difference between current-gen and next-gen. There was one between nes and snes, snes and ps, and ps and ps2. Why should this 'next-gen' be any different?"

    In the c64 and amiga era, games like 'The untouchables' were available on both, the game experience was the same (in fact on this particular game the c64 version was better) Graphics and sound became better.

    Is Super Mario World remarkably different to SMB3 ?

    SNES -> Playstation/N64 - 3d graphics for the mainstream, so a big leap there.

    Apart from this leap from 2d- 3d graphics, i don't remember a distinct improvement between two generations. They are just the same types of games with improved audio and graphics! Mirkan is correct. sigh

  • Rich72 #88 6 years ago

    oops.... 6 o'clock and time to get drunk

  • ClansOfIntrigue #89 6 years ago

    First-gen titles for a new console are NEVER generational leaps - something that plays much like the last gen with some more polys is the norm, because the developers are still finding their feet & developing the code + tools. 9/10 fg games were originally developed for the previous gen, and got redirected when the publishers realised they'd need some launch titles out. I think PD-Zero was originally meant to be on Gamecube (maybe even N64!).

    Sooo... err, what's my point? Perhaps people are expecting too much at this stage?

  • Roamer #90 6 years ago

    @fluff_the_tiger and flighttrisker:

    The difference between, say Zelda on the Nes and Zelda: A link to the past, or Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World. Not only was the graphics leap huge enough to make an impact by itself, but the game design had improved considerably, particularly in A link to the Past.

    The game design and gameplay hasn't evolved considerably, from mario 64 to mario sunshine, but look at zelda 64 vs. wind waker - the graphics altered the feel of the game and allowed the game to take on a different form. Or, look at Resident Evil, and it's remake - the graphics allowed for a much higher level of immersion. The jump in graphics quality isn't as noticeable this time around.

  • BravoGolf #91 6 years ago

    Excellent review :)

  • speedstars13 #92 6 years ago

    This is absurd...an outrage! This game deserves no more than 6.9!! Way to go EG.

  • Roamer #93 6 years ago

    LeDilettante:

    You are obviously dangerously sensitive to any harsh words about a megacorporation, and should consider rehabilitation - or getting your news and reviews elsewhere...

  • l_p_4_7 #94 6 years ago

    Remember the PS2 launch game Tekken Tag? It played sooo different to Tekken 3. Now THAT was a real next gen game! But ICO was such a '32 bit gen' game (because it was originally designed for PSone).
    Edited by 2 at 01/12/05 @ 18:53

  • SirScratchalot #95 6 years ago

    Sounds about right to me and I played through the whole thing in one marathon 8 hour sitting....

  • tengu #96 6 years ago

    l_p_4_7. You're wrong, that's not interesting at all.

  • Derblington #97 6 years ago

    "Fuck. Off. "

    You could do. If you don't agree with the review before you've spent adequate time with the game you're a mong, but even so who cares.

    EG have no reason to apologise for an opinion.

  • caligari #98 6 years ago


    But does this game have as many bland corridors as Halo?

  • Markusdragon #99 6 years ago

    A eurogamer 7 is a worthy score.

  • sibod1 #100 6 years ago

    Eurogamer's anti-xbox bias is plain to see now. CLearly every other site that has reviewed this, with very few exceptions, have given this between 8 and 9 out of 10.

    Eurogamer strikes again. (and all as I predicted after the appaling Kameo review).

  • Tiger_Walts #101 6 years ago

    Krudster, did you play it on the higher difficulty settings? Both AI is supposedly improved and the chevrons disappear.

  • richardiox #102 6 years ago

    Sibob - If there was an incredible game out at launch I'm sure EG would give it a high score. They review games mate not platforms. As it is, a seemingly competant FPS gets a respectable 7. What's the problem?

    I really dont understand why you think it *should* have got 8/9/10? Other than the fact that some other review sites gave those scores.

    Smash Hits Magazine gave the new Sugarbabes record 10/10 does that mean it's an all time great album and every other review should reflect that?

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #103 6 years ago

    sibod1 that is just wrong: The two main multi-platform magazines in the UK (EDGE and Games TM) both gave it 7. I think this is one game almost everyone is agreeing on.

  • The12thMonkey #104 6 years ago

    "I am pretty impressed with 360 launch lineup (as will be many buyers). A wide selction of good to great games, and the amazing stuff will come probably a bit later. "

    --exactly my thoughts. I'm getting Perfect Dark and Kameo tonight, not because of their review scores, but because I want a multiplayer game and single player adventure game. I don't want a racer (Online Mario Kart has me in it's clutches), and I don't want another shooter.

    Kameo is to play when my friends are at work. Perfect Dark is to play when they are available.

    About three months ago, I decided I would be getting an X Box 360, and I've been pretty satisfied with that decision ever since. Not only will I be looking forward to some nice games (Halo 3, Resident Evil 5, the two Sakaguchi RPGs), but I means I can leave the PS3 well alone - at least for the time being. I accept that, eventually, I will have to get a PS3, but only MGS4 has me tempted thus far, and the prospect of one game is not enough to tempt me at the moment. I was a launch adopter for the GameCube, and I shall be a launch adopter for the 360 tonight. Oh, and my DVD player went up the spout about 2 months ago, so this seems like a wise choice :)

    Oh, and also, since when has a 7 out of 10 not been worth buying for some people? Same goes for a 5 out of 10, in my book. Once scores start going south of there, things start to smell of poor execution and bad design.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 19:20

  • Furbs #105 6 years ago

    Well then to quote yourself...
    Fuck.Off.

    Not that I think it'll be long before you are forced out due to constant whining.
    Time for a gamerankings link?

  • Mekah #106 6 years ago

    rauper: "sibod1 that is just wrong: The two main multi-platform magazines in the UK (EDGE and Games TM) both gave it 7. I think this is one game almost everyone is agreeing on."

    Euro reviewers are just pissy that Rare gave Joanna an american voice. :p

  • tengu #107 6 years ago

    lolsrofl

    Loving this thread.

  • pikemon #108 6 years ago

    it should have come out on 'cube

  • Freek #109 6 years ago

    Expectations for this were probably even higher then Quake 4, Doom 3 and Half Life 2 putt toghther. No surprise then that it got a bitt marked down for only being Okay/Decent rather then genre redefining.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 19:52

  • Stickman #110 6 years ago

    LeDilletante, I honestly don't get why you come on here sometimes.

    Still, you're nothing if not predictable!

  • Ihya #111 6 years ago

    ...and in a few months time we'll wonder why Gamespot was climbing all over Microsoft's cock and oh how right Eurogamer was...

  • Agent_Llama #112 6 years ago

    Gamespot's reviews are very Microsoft-friendly.

    I have to agree, despite getting my 360 tomorrow, that the launch line-up is shit. A bunch of ok to fairly good games, with nothing that stands out. I'm getting PGR3 as it appears to be the best of the bunch, and the only one which appeals.

    Sadly, the only real 'next-gen' game, and killer launch app, is no longer out until next year. 'Oblivion' is going to be incredible.

  • Feanor #113 6 years ago

    It's really bad that this review did not mention the bots available for offline multiplayer. Not good enough, frankly. Eurogamer love to go on about how few Europeans Xbox owners have Live, and you're right to do so. But then you completely fail to mention something about PDZ that is surely of interest to anyone without Live thinking of buying this FPS that relies on multiplayer to cover up the flaws in the single player modes.

  • Feanor #114 6 years ago

    "Devil May Cry for the PS3 can go either way... the first game was excellent, its sequels less so and any next gen version will need to be darned good just to hold up."

    Devil May Cry 3 is miles ahead of the original DMC. Miles. It might be too hard for some, if they're not willing to play on Easy and do a bit of orb farming and upgrading, but DMC was also too hard for some people.

  • Calgon #115 6 years ago

    Stickman LeDilletante has actually got a reason to be here.. he doesnt blindly hate "M$", he's actually interested in the console, unlike alot of people commenting here who have said already they arent getting one(then why the fudge are you here reading reviews and commenting? you sad people!... oh I get it you're "sticking it to the man", the corporations?, Sony are our friends though because they are Japanese and not Yanks. pfffft)

    EG Not so sure about some of that review and whether you are going too far too soon with the "this isnt next gen enough" millarky but it wasnt a bad review(again I hope you will give the PS3 a hard time unless they have groundbreaking games... heck if they are behind 360 titles at the time then by you're own standards alot should be getting 4-5s if they are prettier versions of PS2 games. In short I just want to see if I was right that EG is kissing Sony's ass concerning next gen.). I'll decide like with all these scores your giving out whether you are underscoring these games when I get to play them myself. I think I might enjoy it if it is atleast as good as Perfect Dark, loved the multiplayer on that.

    Edited by 6 at 01/12/05 @ 23:01

  • onyxbox #116 6 years ago

    what's the capital of Peru?

  • ccfb #117 6 years ago

    This write-up reads like the Chaos Theory review from a while back. The main points of the text are mostly negative - criticism of the gameplay, highlighting it's weakpoints, explaining what it *should* have been (!) and yet it's slapped with a 7, which is a pretty good score.

    Did you like it, or not? Reading the review I expected to see a 4 or 5. Is this review aiming to talk-down the frothy internet hype over it?

    Don't get it, is all.

  • Furbs #118 6 years ago

    Lima

  • ImGameCube #119 6 years ago

    /still wishes that he had enough cash to buy the damn thing tomorrow....

    Didn't King Kong get a nine around here recently, or did I imagine it?

  • brombeer #120 6 years ago

    Actualy the Dutch Official Xbox Magazine gave it a 7 also. It's just the non-bribed-by-Microsoft review that's all. Don't make a fuss out of it. Keep it cool! Like your spanky new 360, or at least I hope for you Xbox fans you can obtain one come tomorrow.

  • caligari #121 6 years ago

    "unlike alot of people commenting here who have said already they arent getting one(then why the fudge are you here reading reviews and commenting? you sad people!"

    It's called Zealot baiting, you whimpering gobbler.

    /hauls Calgon up onto the boat and clubs him over the head.

    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 20:47

  • Calgon #122 6 years ago

    caligari pah no matter how you spin it you cant ignore the original point, you sweat from a baboons balls.. baiting? my ass they are dribbling fanboys.
    Edited by 2 at 01/12/05 @ 21:00

  • Calgon #123 6 years ago

    lol its funny how they will try and justify themselves sometimes even resort to lying when its pointed out how petty they look.

    *gives caligari and mamoth wedgy on the way out for being the massive geek that he is*
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 20:58

  • Mr_Brown #124 6 years ago

    7 out of 10...lower than what everyone else has given it. But thats no surprise. Eurogamer have never liked any games made by Rare for some reason. So I see a 7/10 from Eurogamer for a Rare game damn high actually. I'm definatly buying it.

  • Feanor #125 6 years ago

    I even asked in the PDZ thread on the forum that Shinji posted in for Eurogamer to mention the bots in their review, but no luck. I was looking forward to hearing how good (or average) they were.

    If you have a couple of mates round, playing an 8 person deatmmacth with 5 bots is surely a lot better than 3 people wandering around in the vain hope of finding something to shoot at.

  • Furbs #126 6 years ago

    Mr Brown, they've only been able to review 3 of 'em!

  • Xerx3s #127 6 years ago

    ""unlike alot of people commenting here who have said already they arent getting one(then why the fudge are you here reading reviews and commenting? you sad people!"

    It's called Zealot baiting, you whimpering gobbler.

    /hauls Calgon up onto the boat and clubs him over the head.
    "

    Calgon does actually have a point....

  • Mirkan #128 6 years ago

    disc; Yeah, here for a bit again now (Kameo demo downloading on my recently unpacked but game-less 360)

    I actually liked bits of Killzone, especially the atmosphere, and I recognize the problems in that game as simply bugs, glitches and lack of optimization. I'm convinced Killzone 2 will be a good shooter and subsequently turn into a great game because so much of its appeal rides on the graphics, quite frankly.

    Crosshair problems were actually attributed to the obsession with zoom in that game. If you didn't zoom to shoot you were fucked basically.

    The producer (or director, can't remember) of the new Devil May Cry game for PS3 actually stated specifically that as opposed to Resident Evil 4, he wouldn't change things with DMC, so it's fair to expect something very similar. I've no problem with that personally, I think they play just fine and DMC3 was to me definitely the best in the series and I don't see why DMC4 couldn't be even better.

    As for Tekken, definitely never a Virtua Fighter, but Tag was prolly exceptionally similar to the game before simply because it was just a tag team update with some other (pretty significant) updates to gameplay aswell. That said, it was certainly a looker, and I don't think the EG staff had any problems at all with considering it to be very next gen indeed.

    People say graphics aren't "next gen" when graphics don't impress them enough. Blow someone's head clean off with graphics and they'll happily play the same game over and over. That is provided it DOES blow their heads clean off, because I think that's the general problem. Graphics right now don't make the giant leaps we're used to, and I think it's less to do with the power developers have to work with and more to do with the fact that they actually have to craft everything pretty much by hand. Being a comic artist I know how difficult it is to just make a flat, static, believable image. People making animation for films have their frame and their angle to hide stuff behind. Game developers have to pay attention to EVERYTHING, and they are just humans at the end of the day.

    I really go ranting off when don't slap myself out of typing. That's a discussion for an entirely different thread.

    I'm looking forward to the Revolution aswell. E3 should be very interesting next year for sure.

  • UncleLou #129 6 years ago

    E3 should be very interesting next year for sure.

    Nah. I'd rather just play games than read more marketing crap followed by 500 stupid fanboy comments. In fact, why am I here?!

    Because the games on your new machine are all a bit lacklustre? ;p

  • Pho-Zoon #130 6 years ago

    I'm wondering:

    When you talk about the gap in hardware, to me this looks like one of the smallest jumps in graphics and gameplay I have seen. Dunno too much about earlier consoles, but comparing it to the NES->SNES->N64/PS1->Cube/PS2/Xbox it seems like a fairly minimal change.

    Also, someone give me a history lesson: was there this much of a debate over the benefit of increased horsepower when the current-gen consoles were announced? Personally I just remember everyone being 'psyched' by the shiny new visuals on the Cube/Xbox/PS2. Am I wrong?

  • Stickman #131 6 years ago

    Calgon, I don't know how often you read the site, but if it's often, you should know already that LeDilletante (despite protestations) is the most ravenous M$ fanboi going! I was just referring to the fact that he's always on here blarting on about how shit Eurogamer is.

    Stop reading it then you munger!
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 21:22

  • Xavier_B_OXford #132 6 years ago

    MY GOOD GOD GATES! This review is a blasphemous work of evil surely spewed from the bowels of the great $atan $ony itself! Perfect Dark Zero more than lives up to it's name by being utterly PERFECT in every way, second only to the Xbox Jesus-on-a-disc that IS the almighty HALO and HALO 2 (Sing hallelujah my Xbox brothers!).

    It has all the great gameplay and graphics that you come to expect from a 360 game, because the 360 is the BEST CONSOLE EVER CREATED by lowly human hands. The super sexy Joanna Dark is the perfect female equivalent to the mighty Master Chief (Despite WHORING herself to the NintYENdo Shitsy Four years ago, but I can forgive her) and I have a poster of her in her underwear on my bedroom wall thanks to the fine gentlemen's tome FHM.

    The people defending this assassination that calls itself a 'review' deserve to be dragged into the streets and burned with fire, but kept alive long enough to be made aware of their sins: denying their god and overlord BILL GATES and Microsoft!

    I shall pray for you, poor fallen souls, bear witness to the overlord in my profile and weep on your knees before his benevolent justice that destroys the $ony worms and NintYENdo n00bs. Yes I shall pray for you... TO DIE!

    Microsoft will rule the future in a glorious Skynet-esque Utopia where people do nothing but play Xbox all day, all night, and all human contact is via Xbox Live.

    Truly glorious!

  • Calgon #133 6 years ago

    Stickman ah well there seems to be alot of tension here with it being next gen and all, I was just commenting on some of the trolls. I dont know whether this deserves a higher score (I was thinking 8 myself) or not but like others said the bots could have been mentioned as alot of people are stuck without live and they usually welcome this(the list in the original was quite impressive for the variation of bots and that has been added to this time apparently). I really like the work MS has done so far for Live(without a doubt the best online console experience so far and looks to be improving) and they have rid the need for a credit card with the new gold membership cards which is a big plus for me. Ive had to cancel my live account this week because of the credit card deal which was being paid monthly on someone elses card since I no longer own one. If PDZ is as good as the previous games then alot of people would be happy with that but I can see it hasnt advanced all that much too, isnt the biggest factor how much enjoyment you get out of it though? does enjoyment only come with groundbreaking features? Im not the biggest fan of the Halo series(its good but not my favourite) so Im hoping Rare will have another crack at it after this, I was going to check PDZ out either way though but theres enough in that review to give me a good impression of what to expect.

    It will all calm down once everyone is settled with next gen and realise the kind of advancements they were expecting takes time(well it depends on what they were expecting of course), they will come soon enough but dont expect every developer to take big financial risks certainly not straight away.
    Edited by 5 at 01/12/05 @ 22:04

  • Stickman #134 6 years ago

    I'm with Calgon on this one. Until we've had the ps3 out for a few months, these comments threads are just going to be a minefield. I'm really looking forward to school holidays in a couple of weeks. :/

    edit - LeDilettante: I'm really not having a go, cos you tend to write interesting posts once a thread gets going. It just seems your first comment always gets people's backs up!
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 22:17

  • Freek #135 6 years ago

    Just because launch titles tend to be mediocre does not mean they should be getting lax reviews. What is the point in that?? It may be a launch title but it still has to be good and fun to play and should be judged by the same standards as established platforms. Since people will be spending allot of cash on it and expect quality.
    Expectation for this were high, so natrually that would be a topic in the review aswell.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 22:19

  • tiddles #136 6 years ago

    To my mind, a "next gen game" is a game that you can't imagine working on a previous (console) platform. GTA III - you felt that they couldn't have created a 3D world with that amount of scope and detail on any console before PS2; Halo couldn't have been done on PS2 or its predecessors; PS1 couldn't have done Mario 64 with the same solidity and grace. Graphics alone can't be next-gen unless they transform the playing experience in some way which wasn't possible on previous generations.

    Launch games are almost always over-rated. Just go back and look the scores for the launch titles for PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, PSOne, N64... For every Mario 64 and Halo, there are countless scores that don't stand up, even taking the advances of game-making technology into account.

  • Derblington #137 6 years ago

    LeDilettante - calm down! I'm excited about it - I'm going to get it in 40 mins - but I'm still looking objectively so that I can justify spending so much on things I'll enjoy. You don't need to be so defensive and taking it out on the site is just stupid.

  • Calgon #138 6 years ago

    LeDilettante
    I agree with most of that I think some of the regulars here must be used to it and ignore it(regarding the trolls). Which is why they wonder why alot of Xbox fans go elsewhere, as Ive said before I actually like the reviews here. I havent always agreed with them but 9 times out of 10 they pick up on the points that I feel are important to me even if they have a bigger impact on my overall enjoyment than the reviewer feels. With the next gen things are looking different here... I wasn't around here for the Xbox launch so Im hoping things will get back to normal soon.

    I can see there is a lack of innovation and original ideas but thats the whole industry we are talking about even Sony, Nintendo and the PC (yes I went there). It cant be easy because even gamers dont know what they want, they want something new is all they can say, that doesnt help the developers a whole lot. Im happy with where xbox360 is headed so far the list of games in development is stocked with games I cant wait to see.
    Edited by 2 at 01/12/05 @ 22:51

  • tiddles #139 6 years ago

    Is it wrong to expect something extraordinary from Rare? $375m and Knightlore says you should, to me.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 22:40

  • caligari #140 6 years ago

    So Calgon, you think the game deserves an 8?

    "I was going to check PDZ out either way though but theres enough in that review to give me a good impression of what to expect."

    Err...maybe you should play the game before you start dishing out your wise-man scores buddy and knocking the site's reviews.

    As for our friend LeDilettante.

    "When I first opened an account on EG it was out of excitment for the 360, having owned an Xbox I just wanted more of the same thing, with top notch graphics and all"

    Yes and all. Let us not stop him there, as he is still excited.

    "All I wanted was to share my excitment for this new machine and this new era."

    /Wipes tears of laughter from his rosy (face) cheeks.

    Oh, and not forgetting this classic comment.

    "I'm not gonna stoop so low as to pelter PS3 previews and reviews with crap born out of pure spite and jealousy of not owning the system. I'll leave you Sony fans in peace among yourselves to suck each other's cocks."

    No really, is it too late to nominate for Boo's forum member of the year?

    I can't wait to see what the chap says next. Maybe he could take Patrick Moore's job if they ever bring back GamesMaster.

    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 22:54

  • Calgon #141 6 years ago

    Caligari: Nice try but I also said "I dont know whether this deserves a higher score (I was thinking 8 myself) or not" and "I'll decide whether these games have been underscored when I get to play them myself"... I am suspiscious though and I have gave reasons why, its more to do with the reasoning and the attitude towards the 360. I may play the games and agree with them who knows, the main complaints are that they are good but arent groundbreaking some of the scores dont reflect that. Sure its a new console that sets you back 300 quid but this is not much of a different situation to consoles that have launched in the past(infact it looks better than most launches so far) and theres enough there to warrant a purchaise for me(a nice selection of good games they dont all have to be AAA... 5 good games is better than 1 killer app and not much else for me) If I had the money that is... sadly I dont. The graphics are looking great so far in most titles especially if you consider when final dev kits were sent out, thats a good sign because its one of the things that consume alot of time in games development, the more time they have to focus on the gameplay and new ideas the better. Point is it doesnt look bad to me so far the 360 situation, I think MS will really step it up this gen and there will be plenty of AAA titles to make the sony zombies weep before all is said and done.

    Also theres a flip side to that arguement of playing the game before commenting on the review... how can you defend it when you havent played the game huh? We can only have a look at what we have seen so far and what we have been told by many reviewers and gamers that have played the game. Theres a few points he missed is all Im saying and some of the reasoning i dont agree with, Its not that bad of a review apart from that Ive already said that.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/05 @ 23:53

  • bootsy_NL_30 #142 6 years ago



    wow! I saw this one in motion today on a good TV

    I'm sorry but I just dont get what everyone is talking about the huge disapointment inn visual fidelity.
    Consoles have finally bridged the gap of HD graphics, this and PGR3 are the only two 360 games I've been able see running but personally I was astounded by the graphics and totally blown away by the audio fidelity.

    I've played or owned all this generations consoles and am currently a PC gamer (and yeah I'm one of "those" guys that doesnt have to have 8X AA and resolutions that you can cut cardboard with to enjoy a game) and am personally astounded by how much disapointment there is at the moment over this console, its an animal!

    the powerblock is however directly out of Ghostbusters.

  • weaselrat #143 6 years ago

    Wait half hour and see what it's like for yourselves.
    I sometimes wonder if half of you ever go out.
    How anyone can comment on a game they have not played amazes me!

  • #144 6 years ago

    My thread is much better than this bollocks.

  • BartonFink #145 6 years ago

    The only thing I am going to say about this is fuck the score and read the review.

    One of the best reviews of a game I have seen in a very long time. Great stuff krudster.

    I'm picking it up tomorrow

  • Feanor #146 6 years ago

    How can it be a great review when the bots are not mentioned at all? Surely that's of interest to everyone buying the game who won't be playing it on Live and won't be blown away by the single player mode. So that'd be about 75%, I'd think.

  • Feanor #147 6 years ago

    "Personally I just remember everyone being 'psyched' by the shiny new visuals on the Cube/Xbox/PS2. Am I wrong?"

    I think you're wrong. When the PS2 launched and people saw Ridge Racer 5 and its terrible jaggies, they weren't all that impressed.

  • Talha #148 6 years ago

    Just my two cents. The game, as rightly pointed out by the reviewer, looks too shiny and simply does NOT belong in the league of Halo. At times it looks like a Rachet & Clank game with first-person perspective - in other words, rather Nintendo-esque (no bad thing in itself, mind). It simply does not offer much in the way of immersion.

    Also, devs these days usually create short games with tiny levels, and expect us to crank up the difficulty level for them to last the length of a 50 quid game. Even CoD2 was guilty of this to some extent.

    Not a bad game by any means, but no Halo, sadly.

    @LeDilettante: I think buddy you've gone way overboard. You seem to think that everybody not singing praises of X360 and not bowing before an effigy of Bill Gates is a 'Sony fan' or worse, a cocksucker. Well continue to think so, such opinions never actually MATTER. We gamers (as opposed to mere XBoxers) know that next gen is yet to arrive, maybe on second-wave X360 games or on PS3, or on Revo. Oh yes and I know you will have a whole lot of rather unpleasant remarks for me, but remember, I am not criticising your tilt or excitement, but your attitude. You see fit to dictate exactly how EG should write their reviews even offering your own interpretation of what should make it into a review. I even remember you once complaining that EG had reveiwed the XBox version of a multiplatform title and a low score somehow showed EG's anti-XBox bias. You honestly expect anyone to take you seriously after that?

    ' I know the first batch of game is not a standard setter, and anyone who expected otherwise is a fool. I'm looking at you EG. " - wow, it seems you have been a fool in your own words until about three weeks ago! If it were not the games themselves, what was the cause of excitement in the new machine, which has not been shared by anyone as you inform us? Its admittedly fine looks?

    Well sorry, but call anyone a cocksucker and you have pretty much earned it. By the way I was not expecting this of you.
    Edited by 3 at 02/12/05 @ 06:32

  • banjo21 #149 6 years ago

    I was torn tween COD2 and PDZ. Origenally pre-ordered PDZ coz of sh**e MP support in COD2 but this and other mediocre writings have convinced me to switch. I love EG for just telling it how it is. Nice one folks. Saved me £40 - thanks.


  • wolfblitzer #150 6 years ago

    got to hate all the sign up login bs.
    most of you here are complite crackheads.
    most of you havent even played the game but you still keep talkin about it and pass some crackhead judgment on it.
    I played the game with a friend on a 71 inch Mitsubishi DLP TV and the game looks good but nothing special,but it does make the TV look much better in comparison to the older generation console games.
    The game is a pretty solid console FPS and having been playing the co-op as well the multiplayer with a friend I have to say the game is pretty fun to play.
    playing 7 straight hours and not geting bored does say something about the gameplay,and that is what's all about.
    story I dont know much about I just played the multiplayer and the co-op,but than again story is not that importent as long as the gameplay is fun.than again I refuse to like any games that are all about the story like some RPGames.those typ of games are not video games but videobook-storys so you might just as well read Harry Potter or watch an animated movie or whatever.
    the score 7 out of 10 is kinder low,but it woud not bother me if EG did not rate some of the games like the Sims 9 or higher not to mention Doom.
    PD0 is a pretty fun FPS game and its even more so if you play co-op or the multiplayer.if I had to give this game a low score I could not give it a lower score than 8 possibly 7.5 if I was trying to under rate the game on purpose.PD deserves 8.5 or 9 out of 10.
    oh yeah the music in the game is pretty good is very well done I like it.

  • Les #151 6 years ago

    I'm glad Eurogamer is not hyping the not so next-gen 360 launch titles as much as the US games sites are doing. Although even there, some 360 games are not even scoring a 9+, which in the US rating scheme equals about a 6 on the Eurogamer scale...

  • Flightrisker #152 6 years ago


    ...- the graphics allowed for a much higher level of immersion. The jump in graphics quality isn't as noticeable this time around..........Prettier graphics do not a 'next-gen' make,

    Which is it?

    If prettier graphic don't make a next-gen then why are you worried that the jump hasn't been as noticable?

    I'm not worried about the graphics side of next gen. For me next gen means letting me interact in new ways that technology is now along.

    Things like the Live service being expanded, the Revolution's pad, the DS's wifi capabilities.. these things are next gen to me.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #153 6 years ago

    It's incredible to think a sequel/prequel like this could stir such emotion from the masses. Will all the launch titles for the "next gen" provoke such a gathering...? Me not so sure...

  • Talha #154 6 years ago

    "most of you here are complite crackheads.
    most of you havent even played the game but you still keep talkin about it and pass some crackhead judgment on it. "

    Someone signs up just to pass these illuminating observations, based completely on assumptions. Just goes to show what really makes a 'Crackhead'.

    EDIT: I for one think that currently all we will have for next gen is conventional games with prettier graphics - and I have no problems with that. Graphics are literally the first thing a person sees. Call me ignorant - I suspect that it will be very hard to truly appreciate some advancement in gameplay unless it is accompanied by at least some advancement in graphics.
    Edited by 1 at 02/12/05 @ 09:29

  • Zuiyo #155 6 years ago

    I would like to add my 2 crack rocks. I mean, cents. ABout what LeDilettante was saying.

    I am convinced there is a majority of gamers who, even having sympathy for a system or a hardware manufacturer, don't necessarily "marry" to them. After all, if you like videogames, why not? True, some people buy an identity with this, most of the time because very few people can afford to have all systems, but this usually does not last much - usually until some friend shows them their system with its good games.

    This means I don't need to take "anything" from Microsoft if I don't want. Think about it: this is purely a commercial transaction. And places like EuroGamer help you finding if it's worth or not. You don't really need to be understanding with Microsoft, although you can, but at the end of the day they're not giving you anything for free: you're paying through the nose for these games. And in the case of XB360, even more. So I believe EuroGamer's review is right on the money, and while it is true that designing and selling consoles and games is no simple feat, carving out 300+ quid out of your pocket just to play something average is just that, not such a great idea.

    This applies only if you don't work for Microsoft, obviously.

  • Talha #156 6 years ago

    @Zuiyo : Wow, you have a scathing sense of humor or what. I agree to your post except for the part about paying 300 quid and more to play average games. Actually, I do think that XB360 is a good investment being next gen and all, and surely there are some better games in the pipeline.

  • Stickman #157 6 years ago

    "got to hate all the sign up login bs."

    If only you'd not bothered, eh?

  • BeDevil #158 6 years ago

    This was exactly my thoughts from what I've seen so far of the game:

    "The level designs are carved out of standard issue Xbox stone, and everything from their size, scale and ambition just reeks of conventional thinking"

    Where's the deformable terrian [snow especially], the reactive vegetation, the distant horizons a la Far Cry?

    I have this on pre-order and will hopefully enjoy it, but what I'm really looking forward to is the second-gen software, which starts to use the power of the machine to better effect - games which are developed with 360 in mind, not something that's been in production throughtout the current-gen's life-cycle but is held back for the next-gen...

  • mash the x button #159 6 years ago

    All this over an average FPS?

  • Derblington #160 6 years ago

    Completely unimpressed by this to be honest. Hopefully it'll get better, otherwise it's going back.

  • gamesb*tch #161 6 years ago

    "Alone again, or..."

    heh

  • Stickman #162 6 years ago

    My, my! What a condescending wankpot you are Self-Inversion!

  • spindizzy #163 6 years ago

    Self-Inversion... the EG guys admit over and over again that their reviews are just their opinion, and that this is all a review can ever be. And you want them to be raped/die for it? Nice.

    For what it's worth - it seemed a perfectly reasonable review to me, and the score was not bad at all for a launch title.

  • Hog-lumps #164 6 years ago

    Well actually taking a breath in a building with asbestos, is only a problem if it is disturbed..........

  • sajtion #165 6 years ago

    is it me or was this review way too long

  • GuiltySpark #166 6 years ago

    short attention span?

  • Self-Inversion #167 6 years ago

    In retrospect it was a little condescending, sorry if it caused any offence :)

  • WhyNot #168 6 years ago

    I think even the most adamant Eurogamer supporters would have to concede that Eurogamer has something of a bias against Microsoft and the Xbox/Xbox360. But so what? Microsoft is an awful corporation, their expansion into the videogame market, if it proves successful, would be a detriment to this industry, and would compel them to expand into other markets, thus furthering their empire and expanding the monopoly. And I also agree with Eurogamer that Microsoft is more or less the embodiment of an obnoxious american arrogance (anyone remember the Microsoft E3 presentation, ick...). So what? A year from now the 360 will be fading away, the PS3 will be on the rise, with the eventual outcome being Microsoft exiting the video game market. Then we can all get on with our lives, no more Xbox zealots scrutinizing every review, bitching how 'unfair' it all is on Eurogamer, all will be well.

  • GuiltySpark #169 6 years ago

    whats wrong???

    couldnt get a 360 this morning?

  • redd #170 6 years ago

    Just logged to say hi!

    ...

    ...lots of funny comments...

    well, back to the game! :)

  • The-Bodybuilder #171 6 years ago

    200th post. woohoo.

  • Pho-Zoon #172 6 years ago

    Anyone else eperienced a delay on the controls in this game?

  • tiddles #173 6 years ago

    I think even the most adamant Eurogamer supporters would have to concede that Eurogamer has something of a bias against Microsoft and the Xbox/Xbox360

    Can anyone tell me why EG might be biased against MS and Xbox? They're a multiformat games site, so no reason to be partisan there, and plenty of Xbox games have scored highly in the past... I suppose they could be being paid by Sony... but somehow that seems unlikely to me. Is it more that this site is being insufficiently positive about Xbox for some people's tastes?

  • tengu #174 6 years ago

    Tiddles: It's because Eurogamer carelessly once referred to the PS3 as 'the real next gen' and the fanboys went bananas obviously. Since then, every time an Xbox game has scored lower than it has on American sites or an article on anything Sony related has gone up, we've had the usual suspects in here looking for conspiracy in every word and spitting as much bitterness as they can. You just have to look at the fact that it's always the same crowd(like LeDilettante for example) mouthing off about the site.

    They just want to ruin it for everybody else who actually enjoys reading the site basically as far as I can see. I for one am sick to fucking death of the constant bullshit tbh.
    Edited by 1 at 03/12/05 @ 18:28

  • Calgon #175 6 years ago

    "I think even the most adamant Eurogamer supporters would have to concede that Eurogamer has something of a bias against Microsoft and the Xbox/Xbox360. But so what? Microsoft is an awful corporation, their expansion into the videogame market, if it proves successful, would be a detriment to this industry, and would compel them to expand into other markets, thus furthering their empire and expanding the monopoly."

    Woah back up a minute there... I hope you were being sarcastic or you must be completely ignorrant you do realise Sony have ventured in to way more markets(countless) than MS(a couple) right? They are far worse at that but because Sony is a name the casual masses consider "cool"(well that is fading since the end of the 90s people are realising other electronics companies are offering better value for money... a reason why Sonys profit in that sector is in decline) they are blind to it. Is it somehow a better situation because they are Japaneese? MS have been involved in the sofware side of games for a long time in the PC world, maybe not as much as they are today but I have much better faith in them than Sony at this(seems alot of developers are seeing it this way too). People who spout crap about monopolies should take a look at other companies/corporations too like Sony, like Nintendo. MS are no different infact after the amount of bad press theyve gotten in the past and the general mistrust towards them they arent going to put a foot wrong because thats going to hurt them in the long run, all businesses are out to make money so please stop with the conspiracy theories of world domination. The Xbox was my favourite this gen because they did alot of good and I can make up my own mind Im not swayed so easily like alot of sheep who follow whats popular to be cool. Aslong as they continue to do good I will continue to support them, simple as that and it looks like they are constantly improving so 360 here I come.
    Edited by 1 at 03/12/05 @ 20:32

  • tengu #176 6 years ago

    And what about people who actually prefer the games that are released on Nintendo and Sony consoles Calgon? I know I do, but I'd never chain myself to single company just because they do some things I like. Clearly that makes them "Sheep" then? Yeah, that must be it, nothing to do with people just choosing what they like the look of and what appeals to them.

    What is it with Xbox fans who can't make a point without having to drag Sony into things at the drop of a hat? I see Xbox fans talk about Sony more often than Sony fans do these days!

  • The-Bodybuilder #177 6 years ago

    >"Tiddles: It's because Eurogamer carelessly once referred to the PS3 as 'the real next gen' "

    What's so sad is that all this fanboy wars could have been avoided if EG publicly achnowledged thier mistake, rather than trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that they never said it (much like the bush administration). Other site did this.

    Now no thread is safe from the "EG are teh xbox hat3rz" goons.

  • The-Bodybuilder #178 6 years ago

    >"Tiddles: It's because Eurogamer carelessly once referred to the PS3 as 'the real next gen' "

    What's so sad is that all this fanboy wars could have been avoided if EG publicly achnowledged thier mistake, rather than trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that they never said it (much like the bush administration). Other site did this.

    Now no thread is safe from the "EG are teh xbox hat3rz" goons.

    In terms of the review, I can't judge because I haven't played it (although I do trust kristian's reviews).
    But I wish they answere certain things, such as...
    a) offline bots.
    b) the different difficulty levels.
    c) the ability to play through the game again with different routes
    d) The ability to play through levels again with different weapons
    e) talked more about the secondary fire.

  • Calgon #179 6 years ago

    Tengu Sony and MS are in direct competition this is why we have people with absoloutly no interest in the machine here trolling and bashing(some even have the nerve to call Xbox fans trolls who came here to read about games they are buying... its a ridiculous attitude by some of the members here). The arguements they give are retarded... like the one I just addressed its the fact that they give arguements that apply to the consoles of their choice too even moreso in most most cases.

    "And what about people who actually prefer the games that are released on Nintendo and Sony consoles Calgon?"
    Then why are they here bitching about a console they have no interest in? Insecurity because they HAVE chained themselves to these companies and see a great console in the making? Possibly or they are just sad deluded fanboys with nothing better to do.

    "I know I do, but I'd never chain myself to single company just because they do some things I like. Clearly that makes them "Sheep" then?"
    Chosing or favouring a company for doing more things right(the games, the features, the overall experience...) is no bad thing at all is it surely? I wouldnt call that "chaining" yourself either. You can hardly call them sheep for that, I acually find that quite amusing you wrote that. No sorry that was a poor attempt at turning a perfectly good arguement around.

    "Yeah, that must be it, nothing to do with people just choosing what they like the look of and what appeals to them. "
    Again thats exactly what the Xbox fans are doing whether you agree with it or not pal, its just they arent petty enough to spend so much time bitching about the rival consoles in Sony/Nintendo sections/forums.
    Edited by 4 at 03/12/05 @ 21:17

  • tengu #180 6 years ago

    "You can hardly call them sheep for that I acually find that quit amusing you wrote that. No sorry that was a poor attempt at turning a perfectly good arguement around. "

    Er... actually, you were the one generalising non-Xbox fans as 'sheep' there mate.

    "Again thats exactly what the Xbox fans are doing whether you agree with it or not pal, its just they arent petty enough to spend so much time bitching their competitors consoles in Sony/Nintendo sections/forums."

    Except quite a lot of Sony related articles and such on here have been trolled quite nicely by Xbox fans over the past few months. Click on any PSP story and you'll find at least one in there doing their best to piss on everyone's fire.

    There are fanboys and trolls on every 'side' here, and it's fucking annoying no matter who's doing it where. It sounds to me like you're trying to pretend Xbox wouldn't stoop to this. I'm telling you: They do.

  • willetts345 #181 6 years ago

    i like it its different no its not a halo killer but then again i dont expect one of those to be around for a good year or so i think personally id give it an 8 the multiplayer is funny yet a little random, and single player is a solid gaming experience, considerin the rush to finish i well rounded game well done rare i say

  • Calgon #182 6 years ago

    Tengu then dont defend the trolls here.
    Edited by 1 at 03/12/05 @ 21:10

  • tengu #183 6 years ago

    I'm not, you're the one trying to pretend one troll is somehow better than another.

    Regardless, this isn't the place for this. I'm done here.

  • Calgon #184 6 years ago

    "I'm not, you're the one trying to pretend one troll is somehow better than another."
    But then I never said that did I? Perhaps I should have checked the PS2/PS3 comments sections out first but then I have no interest in the console which is the reason I havent. It surely cant be as bad as it is here and I bet it doesnt go ignored there.
    Edited by 2 at 03/12/05 @ 21:21

  • mustardkid #185 6 years ago

    when i was 11 i used to buy a speccy magazine called "crash", the letters page often had letters slating the C64. my freind paul read a C64 mag called "zzap64" and their letters page was full of anti speccy stuff. at the time it seemed like a really important debate...20 years later noone cares and looking back it really didn't matter at all.

    you're all probably better off enjoying whatever you've got sat beneath yr telly, and spending less time worrying what other people have got sat beneath theirs.

  • Ihya #186 6 years ago

    Calgon do you know how many software companies Microsoft has choked to death in the coutroom/high street shops due to having a monopoly, some of which offered far superior products? After Microsoft beat Netscape (which wasn't necessarily any better or worse), almost no investment into IE occurred, one of the main reasons why IE has so many terrible security flaws. I'm No 1 so why try harder? Especially when I'm the only one in the race. Their windows software is a poorly executed, bloated, mess, because there is no one else that can compete with them.
    Sure you love them now, Xbox has to perform in a competitive environment and indeed it has brought out the best in the company with a fine console. Once they get thier monopoly there too however, you can kiss goodbye to innovation, you'll be getting a console more befitting of their track record. If the xbox had taken 90% of the market share this round and left Nintendo/Sony a crushed force out of the race, do you think you'd be getting such a good console this time around? Because that is how the financial muscle is going to be applied, to leave them as a crushed force.

    Sony is far from perfect as a company, especially of late, but at least it doesn't have a monopoly that damages innovation on such a horribly large scale.
    Edited by 2 at 04/12/05 @ 17:45

  • Calgon #187 6 years ago

    "Calgon do you know how many software companies Microsoft has choked to death in the coutroom/high street shops due to having a monopoly, some of which offered far superior products?"

    Yes Im well aware of the company's history, moreso than most people who talk about "MS's plans of world domination". Also that wasnt the first nor will it be the last time a "superior" product is beaten by a lesser one, it happens alot for many reasons. If you look at the company TODAY they dont do much wrong and yet people still have no trust in them... it seems they can do no good in some peoples eyes.

    "Their windows software is a poorly executed, bloated, mess, because there is no one else that can compete with them."

    Then dont use it... you could if you wanted find alternatives, I have no big problem with windows myself. Sure it could be alot better but then I understand its not an easy thing to do, building some super efficient OS or we would have had other companies do this already. The fact is they arent that bad or they wouldnt have lasted this long and continued to make so much money. It would make them try harder if they had some big competition but if you think that it would ever be perfect you are mistaken theres just too many things that can go wrong and not enough time to address everything everyone wants at once. They do/will eventually address these critisisms or problems and attempt to correct them but atleast its all well documented(unlike alot of other software which is why you dont hear much about the problems, its not like they are perfect either), you'll have to grin and bare it as hard as that may sound, download any patches/updates, buy new releases or like I said before you could find alternatives because they are out there.

    "I'm No 1 so why try harder? Especially when I'm the only one in the race. "

    Well thats a given though isnt it? Competition does bring out the best in companies and if there was none around they would get too relaxed. Like I was saying these things apply to all companies in this industry(SONY and NINTENDO and SEGA) MS arent the evil empire with black hearts out to destroy all the fun in games like some people make them out to be.

    "Once they get thier monopoly there too however, you can kiss goodbye to innovation, you'll be getting a console more befitting of their track record."

    Thats not going to happen though... has any other company been able to do that so far? You think that they wouldnt? Dont try and pretend any of the other big players in the past or today are in it for soley pleasing gamers... they try and please gamers because they want your money. They know the minute they stop doing that people will go elsewhere, MS know this and they arent going to beable to have full comtrol or a monopoly here they wouldnt get away with much these days even IF they tried to(they are watched far more closely than any other company) without a big stink being made about it, they do understand the way things work in this industry.

    Alot of what youve said is pure speculation there will always be competition in this game and they do care about innovation, more than the competitors in some ways if you look at what they've done so far. I think its a good thing someone stepped in before Sony got too big because that would also be a bad thing for the industry. Aslong as there remains to be healthy competition, all gamers can benifit from it.
    Edited by 6 at 05/12/05 @ 12:21

  • Calgon #188 6 years ago

    I really am bored of these "console wars" debates and constant bitching that comes with it. Im just surprised with some of the crap they come out with, I'll try and ignore it the best I can but should we really have to tollerate it?
    Edited by 1 at 04/12/05 @ 22:16

  • Talha #189 6 years ago

    @tengu: +1, +1 and +1. And I will repeat your advice to me: "Don't feed the trolls'

    I am thoroughly disgusted by some XBox/MS fans dragging PS2/PS3/Sony into every goddamned thread and debate. As far as I am concerned, we can no longer have a healthy discussion on ANYTHING remotely related to XBox (even being its direct competitor) without the same handful of names turning up, turning into a troll-fest. There are Sony trolls as well, but they are far fewer and far less vocal since PS2 fans have SO MUCH LESS TO BE APOLOGETIC/DEFENSIVE about - go on don't admit it, it is the truth. Go ponder.

  • yorkiebar #190 6 years ago

    I've been playing this and Kameo all weekend - and I have to say that they are both excellent. They're not perfect, granted, but Perfect Dark is a serious adrenalin rush and a whole lotta fun, and Kameo is beautiful to look at - there are some seriously stunning graphical moments - and is a platformer in the old Rare tradition (it's banjo with elves). Both were worth it, and neither deserved the detrimental scores eurogamer dished out.

  • Calgon #191 6 years ago

    Someone needs to sweep out the trolls.... the Sony Zombies are by far the worst purpetrators here... all they are doing is needlessly bashing there can be no healthy discussion from that. Yet some of the members here are blind to it, YES Sony are going to get dragged through the mud because you have to hit these trolls where it hurts. They really cant be having too much fun if they spend half their time reading about the competitors consoles can they THINK ABOUT IT! :). They do spit their dummies out when the shoe is on the other foot dont they though?(double standards aye?.... "Take that Mr Gates lol"... "Oh whats this? he said something bad about Sony in an Xbox forum... discusting! we cant have this, we only bash Xbox here";). It would seem some are in denial about what is going on here and come up with PATHETIC excusses to justify themselves..... go on addmit it!!... then go back to reading about whatever console you are hopelessly attached to instead of wasting everybodies time.
    Mustardkid has the right idea if only people would do that thered be a much more peacefull atmosphere here.
    Edited by 9 at 05/12/05 @ 11:08

  • tengu #192 6 years ago

    How ironic.

  • Talha #193 6 years ago

    @tengu: We both decided we won't post here. We both are back. What brings us?

    Aah, Mr Calgon - actually I had been taking peeks here to see whether he has posted yet. @Calgon: Please don't stoop to using language, logic, reason, facts or common sense. We love you as you are - don't let all that curb your enthusiasm.

  • tengu #194 6 years ago

    "We both decided we won't post here. We both are back. What brings us?"

    Slow day at work for me.

    Plus Calgon's 'my fanboys are better than yours' attitude is grating on me :(

  • Calgon #195 6 years ago

    Mr Talha how delightfully clever of you... "Please don't stoop to using language, logic, reason, facts or common sense." I see what youve done there... you've made another completely baseless statement, those are my strengths in most of these discussions "admitt it... go on!" *points at Talha* "ahhhhhhhhhh siiiick" :D
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/05 @ 11:43

  • Calgon #196 6 years ago

    Tengu I never said that :/... I dont agree with any Xbox fans trolling the Sony sections either, its just that I dont visit them so I havent seen it. Ban them too for all I care.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/05 @ 11:40

  • Talha #197 6 years ago

    @tengu: Wow, are we in the same boat or not!! I hate Mondays - they should cut straight to Tuesdays IMHO!

    Anyway we have here Mr Calgon claiming his strength in logic, reason and language. Now what do we do with such a case? File under minor offence I think - I've just realized he cannot be over 14. Whadya say?

    And Calgon, try reading WHOLE posts before you set your Quick-Quotes Quill in motion. You know, an artifact from a book series featuring a boy wizard, in the first part of which he also battles a giant,ugly being known to possess no brain and blindly hitting everyone with a club? Can't remember what it was called
    /scratches head
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/05 @ 11:48

  • Calgon #198 6 years ago

    Haha poor Mr Talha I think he needs a hug.
    edit: Ah well theres nothing left to discuss on that matter, it was a wasted effort on all sides, arguements like that always will be. Lets just end it here because its going nowhere, weve already wasted enough space for the sake of the trolls.
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/05 @ 12:03

  • Carrybagma #199 6 years ago

    Not sure I like the way the comments are done now. Shall I bother checking to make sure I'm not repeating what someone else said? No.

    A comment search facility would be nice.

    Anyways - Eddie Grant. Hehe. Alone again or - wasn't that The Damned? A cover of something.

  • mustardkid #200 6 years ago

    the damned did indeed cover alone again or but it was originally performed by love - a hippy band in every sense fronted by the eccentric arthur lee.

    funnily enough EG's krudster is a big fan

  • jonnyreb #201 6 years ago

    Serves me right for not trusting an EG review.....1st time I've done that too....

    Got this on launch day, really, really tried to like it - but so many things I didn't like.

    Only thing I'll bother saying here is REALLY - no freaking decent checkpoints????? Do they not playtest this stuff nowadays or what?? Are we still being bound by the hardware that restricts such things as intelligent checkpoints? I'm not even going to mention quicksaves, but surely, one of those testers must have said "guys, these one checkpoint per level strategies freaking suck in 2005".

    I'm so angry with it right now I feel like chucking it out of the window, but the more sedated half of me will relax and swap if for COD2 tomorrow (thankyou god for 10 day returns at GAME in Sweden).

    I'm so pissed off with crappy checkpoints I REFUSE to ever play a game that abuses this again just to prolong the full maximum playing time.

    Rare....sorry guys but I'm done with you.............
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/05 @ 23:00

  • Carrybagma #202 6 years ago

    Mr. Krudster isn't into Captain Beefheart and Zappa and all that crazy stuff is he? Vinyl junkie? Zany hippies? Brrrr!

    Anyway. Hurrah for another splendid EG review.

  • Pho-Zoon #203 6 years ago

    heh heh... Calgon smells.

  • the_dudefather #204 6 years ago

    seriously. this game is seriously shit.

    it seems to be impossible to actualy die in parts of the game, second level nightclub for instance, 5 guys firing away at you, lucky your magic healing powers kick in every few seconds. you can literly stand in place for about 3 minutes taking damage without death.

    apart from that there are other problems witht he game (the laughable characters, the rubbish hacking system, etc)

    i think 7 was a bit generous.