Face-Off: Mafia II

By Richard Leadbetter Published 9 September, 2010

Which to Vito?

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- Xbox 360 PlayStation 3
Disc Size 6.5GB 7.42GB
Install 6.5GB (optional) -
Surround Support Dolby Digital Dolby Digital, 5.1LPCM, 7.1LPCM, DTS

The arrival of Mafia II on consoles and PC has certainly caused plenty of controversy, not just on the respective merits of the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions but also, more importantly, on whether the game itself is actually a worthwhile buy.

Many gamers on the official 2K forums weren't happy about the graphical omissions they found in the PS3 version in the demo. It actually turns out these compromises, tweaks and changes are actually the tip of the iceberg. The question is, bearing in mind the relatively poor performance level of both console games, how much does this actually matter?

Let's kick off, as usual, with a comparison video covering outdoor and indoor gameplay, along with the detail-rich cut-scenes. Remeber to use the full-screen button for full HD resolution. A full, triple-format 720p comparison gallery is also available for your viewing pleasure.

Mafia II: Xbox 360 vs. PS3.

One thing worth pointing out here is that the Xbox 360 version of Mafia II lowers the brightness significantly by default. We've upped the brightness, but didn't quite get the match we wanted.

Our initial analysis of the demo code in our older blog entry seemed to indicate that actual performance was mostly similar in the section of gameplay available and somewhat disappointing overall, so let's run some more frame-rate tests on like-for-like sections of the final retail code.

A selection of PS3/360 performance comparisons.

The results in these sections show an overall advantage to the Xbox 360 games, but it also confirms that performance is below par in general on both consoles - a point we'll pick up later when we factor in the PC version of the game. In places, Mafia II doesn't look or feel like a modern console game at all.

The warehouse fight, for example, should be pretty solid - it's an enclosed space with few characters in the scene. Yet we see some tearing and dropped frames on 360, and an even more disappointing showing on PS3. The driving sections also show a performance difference that is much more pronounced than in the demo, though both console games struggle when there are a lot of dynamic lights in play (as you'll see when going through Chinatown, or entering a tunnel).

The existing DF blog post examined some of the claims being made about the respective merits of the two console versions - we looked at the complete omission of grass from the PS3 game, the lack of blood leaking from downed NPCs, plus the lack of screen-space ambient occlusion (SSAO). Others have pointed out that the cloth simulation on PS3 is similarly lacking.

The more you play the retail game, the more you can see how various nips and tucks have been made to the PS3 version. Just about all of them appear to be graphics-based, suggesting that the 2K Czech team did not do much in the way of offloading GPU tasks to the CPU - a practise that many cross-format console developers now use to make up for (and sometimes exceed) the more advanced graphics chip found in the Xbox 360.

Let's start our autopsy at the beginning. The initial level, set in Europe during World War II, has you storming a chateau occupied by enemy troops. Right from the off we can see that shadow detail appears to be lower on PS3: LODs are more aggressive, resulting in what looks like less depth to the scene.

'Face-Off: Mafia II' Screenshot shadows360-1
'Face-Off: Mafia II' Screenshot shadowsps3-1
'Face-Off: Mafia II' Screenshot shadows360-2
'Face-Off: Mafia II' Screenshot shadowsps3-2

Superior shadow LODs and the inclusion of SSAO can make a real impact in certain scenes. The chateau in the background looks much flatter on PS3, for example.

This same area also shows that while the omission of SSAO on the PS3 often makes little difference, in other places it can transform the look of a scene, by adding more depth and making objects appear more at home within their environments.

Once the WWII chapter is over, there's a scene where you're driven through the environments and dropped outside your family's apartment. This scene allows us to match time, place and motion across both consoles so we can get more of an idea about what changes the developer may have made.

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Comments (70) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • darkmorgado #1 1 year ago

    Oh god, this is going to get messy.

    /grabs popcorn.

  • 8bitMofo #2 1 year ago

    For once, I already knew which was going to win this hands down.

  • CaptainQuint #3 1 year ago

    I'm currently on chapter ten of this engrossing and entertaining diversion. EG were way off with their review. Mafia II is well worth a playthrough.

  • Wheatley #4 1 year ago

    Great! So now I know I should go and buy the PC version!

    *checks EG score*

    Oh wait...

  • spookyzombie #5 1 year ago

    I thought EG had (wrongly) told us to 'Vito' both versions anyway?

  • Der_tolle_Emil #6 1 year ago

    Interesting read. I can't say why but this face-off was quite a bit more interesting than the other face-offs. Sadly it really seems like the engine just could not hold up to what the developers had planned with it. It does look like they actually had to cut down both versions because they just could not optimize the engine enough to fit everything they wanted.

  • KayJay #7 1 year ago

    "Bearing in mind that the two console versions are almost as poor as each other, the Betrayal of Jimmy may actually make the PS3 game the better buy overall."

    No way...

  • jebus #8 1 year ago

    @Mogs So the PC wins unsurprisingly, just a shame it's like vinyl - still around, but a dead format.

    PC GAMING IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

    There are 10 million WOW subscribers who would disagree with you there I reckon.

  • jamhead #9 1 year ago

    Interesting article.

    While there is no excusing what appears to be poor development producing a game engine that is not up to par, it's also fair to say the current gen of consoles are now getting a little old. The gap between PS3 and Xbox for most of these is very rarely enough to impact the playability of a game (although as the owner of both I do find face-off's useful).

    However, to say that both consolve versions are impacted, in terms of playability, because of lack of grunt (as opposed to not having a mouse) is surely suggesting that the time for a refresh is nigh. I crave a console like experience (ease of use, price point, living-room friendlyness..etc etc) but with PC-like 1080p/60fps.

    If MS/Sony aren't willing to make the jump to 'next' gen yet and prefer to shove some new 'contollers' our way - it would be great if someone else hopped in there and gave them both a bloody nose.
    Edited by 1 at 09/09/10 @ 16:29

  • darkmorgado #10 1 year ago

    @jebus

    And at least 3 million Starcraft players. Not to mention all the players of all the MMOs in the world combined. And all the players of 4X games. And the 84m people who play Farmville. But I'm loathe to include that.

  • Miths #11 1 year ago

    As much as I love my PS3, I'm definitely glad I went with the PC version of this one. Empire City looked absolutely stunning at 1920x1200 - although my GTX 260 wasn't up for the task of having PhysX turned on (I could probably have had it on in some parts, but I didn't want to live with severe framerate drops in other areas).

    However with all the driving in this game I'm sure as hell glad I had a wired 360 controller on hand. I enjoyed Mafia 2 immensely, but if I had had to do the driving with a keyboard I'm sure I would have hated the game within the first hour or two (being used to console shooters I actually chose not to use keyboard and mouse at all, even for on foot shooting sections).

  • cianchristopher #12 1 year ago

    "There are 10 million WOW subscribers who would disagree with you there I reckon."

    Given that about 5.5 million of those subscribiers are in Asia (mostly China, as opposed to Japan) where console gaming is largely non-existent (outside Japan), that's not really as awesome a figure as you'd think...

    http://ww w.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_in...
    Edited by 1 at 09/09/10 @ 16:45

  • Der_tolle_Emil #13 1 year ago

    The gap between PS3 and Xbox for most of these is very rarely enough to impact the playability of a game (although as the owner of both I do find face-off's useful).

    I don't have a PS3 but graphical differences aside there never has been a game where the differences had any impact on the playability at all, have there?

    For me it all comes down to the controller. I just pick the one that's most comfortable - hence no PS3 so far in my home since I just don't get along with the controller, even though I'm clearly in the minority. After getting the 360 I realized how uncomfortable my PS2 controllers actually are.
    Edited by 1 at 09/09/10 @ 17:01

  • sneetch #14 1 year ago

    @cianchristopher
    Given that about 5.5 million of those subscribiers are in Asia (mostly China, as opposed to Japan) where console gaming is largely non-existent (outside Japan), that's not really as awesome a figure as you'd think...

    11.5 million PC gamers playing a single game is still an "awesome" figure regardless of geographical location. I fail to see the relevance of the "console gaming is largely non-existent" fact as all it "proves" is that they have more PC gamers than console gamers in Asia. How exactly is that a bad thing for PC gaming?

    http://us .blizzard.com/en-us/company/pre...

  • Whooey #15 1 year ago

    The consoles killed the potential this game had. Would have been brilliant if it had stayed as a PC exclusive, but what can you do. That's the way it goes these days.

  • darkmorgado #16 1 year ago

    I don't have a PS3 but graphical differences aside there never has been a game where the differences had any impact on the playability at all, have there?

    Bayonetta says hi.
    So does Orange Box.
    And Bioshock.

    I always buy multiplatform releases for the 360 and keep the PS3 for first-party. The only non-exclusive I wouldn't do this for would be FF XIII, but I wouldn't buy that because it's just not a good game.

    In fact, looking at my shelf now, the only non-exclusive I own for PS3 is Jericho. And that's only because it was a present.

  • FutureDave #17 1 year ago

    That really is a crap looking game on any system.

  • Pinky_Floyd #18 1 year ago

    Shut up Dave.

  • Haloboy #19 1 year ago

    You had High Hopes I take it Pinky_Floyd?

    Moving on, Mafia II has been both a delight and a slight disappointment. It's never managed to grip me as much as the first did and at Chapter 11 I'm still yet to find a personal fave mission that matches either the Airport or Multi Car Park missions from the first. There's not even a countryside chase scene which I loved in the first. But then this is Mafia II, and direct imitation doesn't always spell likewise jubilation.


  • FuzzyDuck #20 1 year ago

    I think the fact that it looks cack on both systems is down to the developer as opposed to the host systems (i also acknowledge as a PS3 fan that the Sony edition was going to be inferior anyway).

  • ronuds #21 1 year ago

    Why do they bother with face-offs for games that nobody wants on ANY system? :p

  • M1chl #22 1 year ago

    Whooey: No this game killed 8 by year development and other problems, definitely not consoles, donť be such a PC fanboy... I am from Czech Republic and I know 1 guy from team (2k Czech) : )
    Edited by 1 at 09/09/10 @ 20:37

  • orangpelupa #23 1 year ago

    <strong>but the PC version is interesting in its ability to overcome the main issues of the console games through sheer horsepower alone.</strong>
    actually, Mafia 2 is very lightweight on PC (atleast on my PC). It is a lot lighter than GTA IV. My pc struggle to deliver stable 30fps on GTA IV, but easily get stable 60fps in Mafia2 with APEX Medium (using CPU, apex tweaked).


    <strong>so many gamers with a single GPU can turn off PhysX support with little impact on their overall game enjoyment. </strong>
    or you can just "tweak" the APEX ;) the debris effect give a lot better impression, although looks a bit "fake".
    just <strong>google : mafia II apex tweak patch </strong>and you will get many result.

    It seems the APEX Cloth that ridiculusly heavy to render using CPU.

    btw there some APEX tweak installer so no need to edit the files manually can be downloaded from here.

    EDIT:
    why i get downvoted...
    is it Because my pc cant run GTA IV in good fps? O_o

    EDIT2:
    thanks the upvotes. Btw have anyone tried Jimmy Vendetta? On my PC it killed about 10fps. 60fps (no Jimmmy DLC), 50fps (jimmy). :(
    Edited by 6 at 10/09/10 @ 16:24

  • Verwandlung #24 1 year ago

    "So the PC wins unsurprisingly, just a shame it's like vinyl - still around, but a dead format.

    PC GAMING IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'( "

    http://store.ste ampowered.com/stats/

  • Whooey #25 1 year ago

    @ M1chl
    I agree this game faced a whole host of problems during development and I'm betting the porting to consoles, PS3 in particular, was one of them. Which pains me to say, because I actually love the PS3.

  • skyrend #26 1 year ago

    @Der_toll_Emil
    I don't have a PS3 but graphical differences aside there never has been a game where the differences had any impact on the playability at all, have there?

    Out of the games I've played, Bayonetta on PS3 was subHD, had increased tearing, sub-par textures, and most importantly ran at about half the fps as the 360 version, which I think averaged around 50 fps, which is pretty bad for a fast-paced action game. Many publications were justified in releasing downgraded score for that game.
    Edited by 1 at 09/09/10 @ 18:53

  • FutureDave #27 1 year ago

    @Pinky_Floyd AWTFAY?

  • Rodchenko #28 1 year ago

    GTA IV offered a richer world with similar frame-rates and barely noticeable screen-tear years ago

    Richer the world may have been (heck, you could at least bowl!!), but it seemed as if everything that lay outside of 150 ft. from were you stood was smeared with vaseline. The character models weren't all that great either. It might be subjective, but I much prefered the look (let alone the tighter gameplay) of Mafia II (both on the 360).

  • lucky_jim #29 1 year ago

    @EarlBassett

    When you're able to post a message in Czech that could be understood by a native Czech speaker, then you can start taking the piss out of M1chl's English. I try not to bitch about things but that's unbelievably ignorant.

  • makeamazing #30 1 year ago

    Not pretty reading for the PS3, but it does seem that the usual problem of spending too long on a game hasnt done them any favours. Hopefully now its released they can learn from their mistakes and improve it for the next game.

  • roz123 #31 1 year ago

    Yeh the game runs really well and looks very nice on my dual core with a 9800gt. I can run it with everything on high at 1080p and never notice any drops in the framerate. Its quite impressive how good it looks compared to other recent sandbox games. Its a shame the gameplay is very mundane. The physx does completly slow everything down when i turn it on so i will give that APEX tweak a go. thanks orangepulpa for the link

  • man.the.king #32 1 year ago

    For once, remarkably, instead of harping on about the 360's supposedly "infinite capabilities" or banging on about the PS3's "endless disadvantages", Mr. Leadbetter has focused on the differences and not on speculative "what should have been" or "what is and is not possible on the PS3" ruminations.

    Good job, and Thanks! An informative article, even though I'm not actually interested in the game.

  • chiz #33 1 year ago

    Nice of you guys to do a comparison with console v PC. PC will always win ;)

  • SupremeSkill #34 1 year ago

    The graphics of mafia 2 are superior compared to GTA IV. And those nick nacks about Mafia 2 from Eurogamer are ridiculous.
    GTA iv ran on PS3 like shit, and on PC it ran like slowpoke. "Mafia 2>GTA IV: the shittiest GTA yet" anyday.
    Edited by 1 at 09/09/10 @ 20:09

  • Paul_cz #35 1 year ago

    Crap comment is crap on any website.

  • UncleLou #36 1 year ago

    Crap game is crap on any system.

    Wrong, it's actually pretty good on the PC. But then the driving and running doesn't feel like the air is full of jam like it does in the PS3 demo.

  • M1chl #37 1 year ago

    EarlBassett: Sorry, I write that wrong *fixed* : )

    Whooey: PS3 port actually was done by some other folks, so problem might be here. 2K Czech is pretty much PC only devs, so this is why console versions sucks. But I bought a X360 version and have no problem with it, I just donť like sitting in front of my "working machine" (PC) and play games, thats nothing relaxing for me...

  • GreyBeard #38 1 year ago

    Proving once again, if you want to get good performance out of PS3 you have to treat it as its own thing.

  • man.the.king #39 1 year ago

    @Whooey

    "...because I actually love the PS3"

    I don't, but then I don't love any of my consoles. Not my PS3, nor my 360 and certainly not the Wii.

    I "do" love my family and friends though... :)

  • tnt_2008smum #40 1 year ago

    I love lamp

  • Spuzzell #41 1 year ago

    @mogs

    US Console game sales revenue 2009: $10.5 billion
    US PC game sales revenue 2009: $13.1 billion

    PC gaming is doing just fine, this death stuff is a myth.

  • Emmit_Assassin #42 1 year ago

    This makes me fuckin sick. We were all sold Xbox 360's and PS3's on the promise of PC-beating performance, 1080p60fps AS STANDARD HD gaming and future/idiot proof unbreakable machines. What a load of fuckin bullshit that was. I remember some twat stating that we'd have PC like games in size and graphical quality within three years of launch...where are they then 6 years after launch? In fuckin awesome PC's, that's where. I could have spent an extra Ł100 in 2007 and bought a top spec PC and had all the gaming joy and performance M$ and Sony promised, without the flashy but useless (for me, anyways) Blu-effin-Ray on my now sold PS3 and RROD (6 fuckin times no less!) on my 360. Lies and PR bullshit, that's what I bought...
    ...and now there are rumours of the PS4 and XNext...Fuck off, my moneys going into a decent PC gaming rig come next gen despite everything they'll promise.

  • Darren #43 1 year ago

    After the gorgeous visuals of Red Dead Redemption on the 360 (my personal fave game of 2010), it was quite a shock to play the 360 demo of Mafia II. I thought it was dreadful; like unfinished alpha nevermind beta code. The PS3 version was even worse with both having a horrid framerate and tearing aplenty. I know both consoles are capable of better so the developers should either have spent more time on the console versions or if the engine is the problem here scaled those version back so they ran better. Considering the game has been in development for six years I'd have expected the console builds to have been a lot more polished than they were.

    Not that 2K will care as the game has been a success anyway and people who bought the game seem to be enjoying it. Personally I think it's a good game but I'm glad I have a PC to play it on because I'd have hated to play it on the consoles.

  • Whooey #44 1 year ago

    @ M1chl
    That would explain the shoddy porting job. I think that in turn held back all the platforms content wise though which is a shame. No doubt the PC version is great, engine wise, 2K Czech did a great job. To each their own, I prefer gaming on my PC always have always will. Nothing wrong with sitting back and relaxing on a couch to play games. :)

    @man.the.king
    Haha, I only love it as a platform for gaming, honest. :p

  • Lord_Gremlin #45 1 year ago

    Gosh, they had some lame programmers. Especially the ones who made PS3 version. Well, the game itself is pretty bad, so -whatever.

  • TopKatt #46 1 year ago

    tigerstyle: "PS3 with the worst version again. Who'd have thought it?? lol. "

    Digital Foundry: "Bearing in mind that the two console versions are almost as poor as each other, the Betrayal of Jimmy may actually make the PS3 game the better buy overall."

    Once tigerstyle gets banned, can I have a turn at being Donnie?

  • Lord_Gremlin #47 1 year ago

    Meh. The whole point: 2K Czech did a lame job with this game. Will 2K fire this team?

  • Cobra8472 #48 1 year ago

    Why is the 2D Sprite thing even an argument?

    That is the most retarded thing I have read in years.

    You do realize that EVERY single game utilizes 2D sprites for foliage, trees and distant objects?

    Every single game utilizing SpeedTree does the same spinning leaves thing if you rotate the camera, it's just not as noticeable since the leaves are suspended in the air.

    Guess the developers of Mafia 2 should've invented a new bush-rendering technique to satisfy you...

  • darkmorgado #49 1 year ago

    We were all sold Xbox 360's and PS3's on the promise of PC-beating performance

    NEWSFLASH:

    PCs are constantly upgraded to include the latest tech. Consoles remain static for years.

    You made your post as if you were fucking surprised by this revelation?

  • Spuzzell #50 1 year ago

    'You do realize that EVERY single game utilizes 2D sprites for foliage, trees and distant objects? '

    Ha.

    Crysis and Far Cry 2 say hi. Alan Wake would too, but he's a moody little turd. He'll probably just show you the finger.

  • RKOwned #51 1 year ago

    Bad port is a bad port. Nothing more. it gets mroe content, so thats something and they even said that makes the PS3 version a better buy for consoles. Honestly, why is it a big deal if PS3 dosent get the better version or the same version alot of times. Dosent make it worse. It still ahs the best Exclsuvies this gen IMO.

  • FogHeart #52 1 year ago

    "On one hand it's disappointing that such a big game is lacking in any respect on the PlayStation 3...."

    It comes to your home on the occasion of your face-off, it sits in your PS3 disc tray, it runs on your rig but it doesn't show you any respect...

  • Marshall2008 #53 1 year ago

    This game is fucking awful on the consoles, pity its shit and no-one will play it on PC. You can't polish a turd, but maybe you can roll it in glitter..

  • Bumbuliuz #54 1 year ago

    If I remember correctly, the PS3 port of Mafia 2 was done by a 3rd party company and 2k did the PC and Xbox 360 versions.

  • Haloboy #55 1 year ago

    Just a simple dual core and Ł80 graphics card here. And I can easily hit 100 frame per second in most areas of Mafia 2.

    [link url=http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3883/mafia2 2010083111014275.jpg
    ]http://im g695.imageshack.us/img695/3883/...[/link]

    It may be badly ported for consoles but the PC version really is quite something even on a modest machine.

  • roz123 #56 1 year ago

    That APEX tweak works really well, had to turn the AA down to 4x but its worth it for all the rubble in the shoot outs

  • drxym #57 1 year ago

    I don't get publishers some times. The console versions of their games cost more at retail, and probably sell higher volumes too. So why can't they be arsed to put the proper effort into making them run there well? Of course the PC is capable of better graphics and higher framerates and of course there should be a PC version that exploits those advantages, but that is no excuse for console versions that are subpar.

    It's also disappointing to hear that Mafia II didn't address one of the major flaws of the first title, namely producing a living and breathing city with absolutely nothing in it except for story mode chapters. What the hell is the point of that? If you're going to do a sandbox game, you HAVE to fill the world with interesting content. Otherwise, don't bother making it a sandbox at all. Think of the GTA games where you have the main missions, but if you feel like it you can head off on your own for some freestyle rampaging, taxi missions, racing, various challenges, jumps etc.
    Edited by 1 at 10/09/10 @ 09:54

  • dingo75 #58 1 year ago

    @Emmit_Assassin

    Welcome back to the flock!
    PC gaming for life. :)

  • Osmond #59 1 year ago

    mafia 2 defo wasnt a 4 out 10 game, neither was kane and lynch2. Both were disappointments , no doubt but below the standards of stuff like wanted, 007QOS etc..?

  • Badassbab #60 1 year ago

    This game has been badly optimsed for both versions. 6 years in the making? I can see that.

  • vizzini #61 1 year ago

    Regardless of my feeling on the EG review score, I think the overall sentiment in this DF article is correct. Protracted development and inefficient processing on all three platforms; and because it is six year old design specifications, it still works best on a fast symmetrical CPU with a fast graphics card with lots of vram, eg a new PC.

    But as for face off analysis of the console versions the authors lack of knowledge or blatant fanboy bias is really quite worrying.

    Even the performance and screen tearing could be tested scientifically, if they took the small effort to use a programmable joypads for each system, and thereby enable gameplay sequences to be identical for measurement.

    Instead, when the fps counter is on (in selected videos), the 360 version always takes a different path to the PS3, because Richard has previously checked the other route to give the 360 the least intensive CPU/GPU path.

    A little bit like in Quake3 where you can be facing a wall and get 1,000fps out of a mobility ATI 7500 chipset; because frustum culling has only given the GPU 5 polygon quads to draw and overdraw has been completely eliminated.

    Richard also makes no comment about the video on page 3 (@1min 50 seconds) where the 360's bonnet-cam (for the same car) is using a massively reduced viewing frustum to the PS3/PC DX10 version. Why? because of the depth buffer precision limits in 360's graphics API(unless using a painter's algorithm).

    This essentially eliminates the Depth/Z-fighting artefacts that would occur on the 360's Xenos if it draws what the PS3 does, and it also reduces the GPU workload (for the alleged “more advanced chip”) so that the draw distance is reduced to avoid framing-out to some small digit fps values.

    The other misrepresented comment concerns the lighting and 360 default brightness setting.

    The visuals of DX10 on PC and OpenGL ES on PS3 are not just better, but gamma correct; whereas the Direct9c implementation in Windows XP and the 360 version have poor contrast because of the lack of h/w acceleration for gamma correct texturing. This is why they set the default brightness lower, to make it less pronounced and give TV's with excellent contrast ratios a fighting chance to alleviate the problem.

    On Windows Xp they should have used OpenGL (1.5 - 4.0) instead.

  • des #62 1 year ago

    PS3 lost again and it will lose again and again...good thing is that 360 version is not gimped to match PS3 standards,but who cares

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #63 1 year ago

    The upshot of the analysis is we should all go and get severly drunk and curse the fact that there have just been too many compromises. Maybe some of the more unstable Xbox 360 and PS3 owners will be driven to throw themselves under a bus because of the sheer lack of visual fidelity on offer here, PC owners may end up breaking some furniture and maybe put their fist through some drywall if they have spent lots of money on a quality rig only to play this on it.

  • RKOwned #64 1 year ago

    @ des. why dont you just go sit in the corner. grown ups are talking.

  • StvenWillson #65 1 year ago

    Mafia II arrival on consoles and PC has certainly caused much controversy, not only on the bottom of the PS3 and Xbox 360, but also, more importantly, if the game itself is really an interesting purchase.

    Escorts London

  • Nebula #66 1 year ago

    Spuzzel wrote:

    "Ha.

    Crysis and Far Cry 2 say hi. Alan Wake would too, but he's a moody little turd. He'll probably just show you the finger. "

    I dont think you understand how vegetation is rendered in games and neither DF. Crysis and FC2 aswell as AW uses 2D vegetation layers put in such formation it looks "3D". Either cross shape or hexagon alt. handtuned to form a volume but the layers are 2D, not polygon blades and branches (excluding tree trunk/bush base). barely any games have polygon based 3D grass, FC2/Flower being one of the few ever games to do it and in larger quantity.

    For example Crysis grass is 2D sprites, bushes are made by having lots 2D vegation layers intersecting each other in such formation it forms a believable volume. For distance pretty much all games uses 2D vegetation, especially true on consoles as else the performance would tank considering the limited transparency rendering capabilities consoles have.

    Also as the previous poster said pretty much all games with SpeedTree has the vegetation layers spin based on camera direction. Point however is it is plain stupid to complain on this 'phenomena' when it works in such way it barely ever is noticable unless you search for it.

    Also Mafia 2 tech is head and shoulders above GTAIV/RDR. Having GTAIV on PC and Mafia 2 it is easy to crosscheck. From model detail to shading to environment detail, lighting quality, mapping use, particles, use of quality SSAO, procedural animations with physics based hit detection, complex car handling (tire flexing, multiple indivudal parts of cars computed etc) and much more.

    As for console version (360) it sure looks better than GTAIV visusally and techwise on same console. No incredibly low-res fullscreen DOF effect (present in PC version to), lightsources cast shadows (absent for console version of GTAIV), rich vegetation detail around city which there is barely any of in GTAIV, more detailed cars both shading and geometrically aswell as far more complex physics and handling computing (simulation mode), SSS for snow, SSAO present (no SSAO in RDR nor GTAIV), dense particle effects, no loading between indoor/exterior and many indoor parts visible from street, huge draw distance while maintaing good LOD levels, deffered lighting thus tons of dynamic lights as seen at night and most cast shadows to (only on GTAIV PC do they cast shadows). Heck I counted at night the amount of dynamic lights casting shadows at upto 20, think about KZ2 which has it capped to 10 dynamic lights casting shadows (as per developers themselves). Much more to.

    I just say to people to check out DF/Eurogamers own GTAIV/RDR captures and compare, refresh memory becouse they look ugly in comparision to Mafia 2 especially the PC version. Ofcourse one could wish they tapped more of the PC features instead of limiting themselves greatly to DX9 but the game still stands tall and proud.

    Some native screenshots of Mafia 2 on PC.

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    EDIT: Fixed spelling misstakes


    Edited by 2 at 11/09/10 @ 22:31

  • vizzini #67 1 year ago

    Nebula: Heck I counted at night the amount of dynamic lights casting shadows at upto 20

    Are you sure they are casting dynamic shadows, and not just switching off shadow textures that have been independently generated with light mapping? There is a big difference between dynamic lighting like in Killzone/Split second and dynamic lighting with dynamic occlusion for all 20 lights. It is possible a GTX 460 might have the horsepower to dynamically capture 20 unique shadow maps ever 5frames in a 60fps game; but I doubt it does when it is also running physX.

    Mafia 2 running on Vista/Windows 7 is using an underlying DX10/DX11 runtime even if the game if the game uses DX9c interfaces. This was a big reason why many OpenGL developers stayed with Xp for so long, and like me are starting to look at Mac OS and Linux distros as a main desktop O/S.
    Edited by 2 at 11/09/10 @ 21:04

  • Fur1ousApollo #68 1 year ago

    I bought the Xbox 360 version of the game.

    I can't say I have any major issues while playing. It was both playable, entertaining and I didn't really notice frame rate issues, screen tearing to any level that made me think they did a bad job.

    Overall I was impressed with the graphics, the playability, the story and I am still shocked to see this being given a 4/10 review on this website because the truth is that it deserves a lot more.

  • Nebula #69 1 year ago

    Vizzini wrote: "Are you sure they are casting dynamic shadows, and not just switching off shadow textures that have been independently generated with light mapping? There is a big difference between dynamic lighting like in Killzone/Split second and dynamic lighting with dynamic occlusion for all 20 lights. It is possible a GTX 460 might have the horsepower to dynamically capture 20 unique shadow maps ever 5frames in a 60fps game; but I doubt it does when it is also running physX."

    Yes they are dynamic and makes dynamic/static objects cast proper shadows. Ofcourse streetlight has lower res shadowmaps for each light with simpler filtering but the point is they cast shadows. Other lightsources cast higher res shadowmaps and are better filtered like main/special scene lightsource(s). The count might though differ depeding on location/situation.

    In GTAIV PC version excluisvely you can enable to have 10 lightsources (streetlamps, car lights etc and always 10 if 10 lightsources are rendered) cast realtime shadows and with latest patch the quality of the shadowmaps is greatly superior to Mafia 2 when talking about streetlamps.

    APEX doesn't really take so much on CPU/GPU in 'free roaming' situations around city. My dual-core E8400@3.6GHz easily handles above 30fps even with crashes, sparks, objects breaking etc in for exampel car chase. The heavy parts are in areas where the spawned amount of women with dresses are larger and/or lots of machineguns pilling up physicallised particles to the 10k count (high APEX setting). Then with my CPU it goes heavily down to 10-15fps when reaching 10k persistant particle limit.

    But as said it might be tuned to difference situations/locations.

    Vizzini wrote: "Mafia 2 running on Vista/Windows 7 is using an underlying DX10/DX11 runtime even if the game if the game uses DX9c interfaces. This was a big reason why many OpenGL developers stayed with Xp for so long, and like me are starting to look at Mac OS and Linux distros as a main desktop O/S."

    Though even in this case the game still seems to suffers from DX9 shortcommings. But I would think if they got DX10/DX11 runtime they would use it mainly to benefit from multi-threaded rendering, no?
    Edited by 3 at 11/09/10 @ 22:34

  • vizzini #70 1 year ago

    Nebula: Though even in this case the game still seems to suffers from DX9 shortcommings. But I would think if they got DX10/DX11 runtime they would use it mainly to benefit from multi-threaded rendering, no?

    The multi-threading in the GPU is done automatically by the driver/runtime.

    But ATI's previous stance of using a micro-architecture graphics card design; working smarter not harder, meant that functionality changes since GLSL 2.0(OpenGL 2.1)/Shader model 4.0(DX10) couldn't be added to their older cards; unlike Nvidia that have used a flexible super-scalar brute force approach from the start, making most of their products compatible with CUDA/GPGPU, merely by updating the drivers.

    DirectX9c that is used for the 360 Xenos (and the only DX option in WinXP) still represents partially fixed pipeline programmability in software and in h/w for old ATI cards.

    So new rendering techniques and render formats such as GL_RGBA32F_ARB from OpenGL 3.0 /DX10 can't be h/w accelerated in a single GPU render pass on old ATI cards that only support Direct9c and GLSL1.2 (of OpenGL2.1).

    The main issue here, is that the similarity between the visuals of the PS3's RSX graphics (using the latest OpenGL ES Specification; opengl 3.0/4.0 on a super-scalar design) and the PC version on DX10/DX11 of Mafia 2 on a new super-scalar graphics card is clear for everyone to see; as are the author's bizarre comments, which incorrectly say the 360 version is technically better than the PS3 version even though the Xenos card is still largely a defunct card and 3D API from 2006.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/10 @ 11:58