Editorial: Reaction, Not Bias

By Tom Bramwell Published 18 May, 2005

The fallout of the fallout.

Given that one of the most exciting things we saw at Sony's PS3 unveiling was MotorStorm, a game that slung mud around in increasingly unbelievable ways, it's probably fitting that the feedback aftermath is comprised more or less entirely of mudslinging.

We're biased, apparently. Well, no we're not. Anybody who reads Eurogamer regularly knows that we simply like games and don't hold back with what we think about them. We own all the systems, we play them all as often as there's something interesting to play on them, and we make no secret of the fact that we don't always like the games that everybody's banging on about deliriously elsewhere. In fact, some of our most popular features have focused on trying to think through why that is.

But this week apparently all that's been forgotten because we've stuck our necks out and said, having seen both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 up close, that we reckon the PS3 is decidedly more impressive.

Let's clarify that for a second: We're not passing final judgement. Who knows, we might change our minds - it's been known. We're just reacting to what we've seen thus far. Both Microsoft and Sony have unveiled their hardware, explained the specifications, and shown us game footage. And, for all the talk of PS3 titles being pre-rendered, which seems to be one of the most mud-splattered points of the whole affair, we can comfortably say that there was a heck of a lot of stuff going on in real time at the Sony conference. You can't pause computer-generated pre-rendered imagery and rotate around the objects using a control pad.

What's more, it would be catastrophically moronic of Sony to fake that kind of presentation - and even if it had done, it will get found out in the end and get its backside kicked if that happens.

We were convinced of the truth of a lot of what they showed. Some of it was clearly teaser style trailing and guestimation, but a lot of it clearly was not. And in time you'll probably share that view. If you don't, or it becomes abundantly clear that we were all hoodwinked then we won't shy away from reflecting that on these pages too.

Granted, our being so rankled by the vastly differing approaches taken by the Xbox and PlayStation teams is a matter of taste. But then so is everything. If you can't join in the giggling about ridiculous propagandist rhetoric and Frodo Baggins wearing an Xbox T-shirt introducing endless Killers songs, then don't join in. Stick to the pieces that focus on games, of which there will be a heck of a lot going up this week as we enter E3.

But on the question of games - the things we love - we honestly believe it would be impossible for any objective observer to sit through the respective launches and not form a view of which made the better impression. The fact that a lot of our competitors aren't opining, to paraphrase Reggie Fils-Aime's rather entertaining speech at the Nintendo conference, is their issue, not our problem. One of the reasons we're forced to pick through so much detritus, and why so many weak games are propelled to the tops of the charts, is that there aren't enough people in the media trying to tell you what's important; what makes these games work.

"Bias" is a very unpleasant word, and it's not one to be thrown around lightly. It's very upsetting to see it popping up in comment threads and emails. So let's be frank: If you honestly think we've sat down and concocted some sort of agenda designed to promote one console over the other, then by all means hit the close button and never come back.

But if you actually read Eurogamer regularly and have been fuming the last couple of days, calm down for a moment and consider this: all we've ever tried to do is continue what we've always done: tell you what we think about games and the games industry and, where possible, how they are likely to go about entertaining you.

By all means disagree with what we're saying, and tell us so. The world would be an incredibly boring place if everybody thought the same way and one of the main reasons we have feedback forms at all is to court that kind of response. But don't scream "bias" at us simply because you disagree. We're here at E3, we're seeing things, we're reacting to them, and we're trying to tailor that reaction to inform you - the people who keep us going. You deserve to know what these things are like as well as what they are, and if you'd rather not be treated that way then you might as well stop reading about games altogether, wait for them to turn up in the shops, read the back of the box and fork over your hard-earned based on a few bullet points written by the guys whose paycheques dry up if they can't convince you to do so.

This is not an attack on you, nor a suggestion that you're ignorant or stupid. This is simply a reaction to some quite stern criticism. Our editorial is not influenced by any external factors. Hopefully, as we spend the next few days getting ridiculously excited about the games you're going to be playing in the next year or two, you'll remember that you already thought that.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (252) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • stephenchan #1 7 years ago

    Well, I for one fully respect your editorial decision to express your reactions and not shy away from courting controversy. Bravo! Keep up the good work.

  • skybluesam86 #2 7 years ago

    Agreed.

    I might not necessarily agree with what you've said so far, but you're there, I'm not. You are my gateway to E3 (E3 zen, maybe? :D)

    One thing's for certain - I'm glad the Microsoft hype machine hasn't swallowed you up. You've also made the PS3 seem a very exciting prospect, moreso than I would have imagined.

  • conrad #3 7 years ago

    well said, I wouldn't have it any other way.

    which is one of the main reasons I keep coming back to this site day after day after day.

  • The12thMonkey #4 7 years ago

    Yep, all good.
    The only issue I had today was the comment about Nintendo which headlined the Revolution topic, which was later corrected.

    Yes, it is true that Nintendo did mention any comparison with the other platforms, and us, sitting here at home by our broadband connections only saw the video. We didn't hear what the journos were saying to each other at the end. We did not have that perspective.
    These different perspectives is what, I think, led to such an outpouring of bile today.

  • Ranger101 #5 7 years ago

    "This is not an attack on you, nor a suggestion that you're ignorant or stupid. "

    I dunno, I think some of the people who read this are stupid.
    Keep it up.

  • FarFromSane #6 7 years ago

    I couldn't agree more

  • Pike #7 7 years ago

    Shit, looks like this little "bias" shitstorm really got on your tits.

    Are you really surprised that expressing any form of opinion on the relative merits of the new consoles would lead to cries of bias though? It seemed like an inevitable result to me.

  • Ranger101 #8 7 years ago

    "Outclassed? Undoubtedly. Sony's hardware, its software"

    that satement from robs section i thought was pretty biased,
    especially the software being outclassed


    It seemed biased, probably because it's an opinion based article, hence why 'Rob's name was actually part of the headline, and seperate from the main reporting.
    Sometimes Journo's have been known to write an opinion based column or two. It's not really unheard of (though God would I love not to have ever read a column written by 'Little John' in The Sun).

  • the creeper #9 7 years ago

    lavalant-
    Class can refer to many things. I think it's pretty fair to say that MS has decided to try and be hip and down with the kids - its' always embarrassing when middle aged men do that. Sony kept their presentation comparitvely low key, opting to talk in more detail about their system. The MS guys came out with cringeworthy lines like "the controller is the gateway to zen gaming". Yeah - MS were outclassed. Both in presentation and the quality of the hardware. It's not biased to state fact. Everybody agrees (not just on this website) - Sony have stolen the march on MS at this point.

    In terms of games, I'd say there's been more exciting prospects on the PS3 than the Xbox360. Killing Day, especially atracted my attention - the statue is awesome by itself, let alone everything else. And to get excited about a game from Rare in this day and age is an exercise in futilism. They're not the name they once were and 375 million of MS's money doesn't change that.

    I also don't understand why you have a problem with the two consoles being compared. These two are going head to head with each other, of course they're going to be compared, using whatever assets are available to draw such a comparison. If you're suggesting the Sony have bumped up the quality with renders (ignoring the realtime stuff that was shown at the conference) then please don't tell me you're niave enough to think MS didn't do the same.

    And to the Eurogamer guys - you're comparison articles clearly favour the PS3. And if that's your opinion then that's what you should write. You're there (you lucky b*$%&£$s!!!) and we're not. I think I speak for most when I say thank you for giving us a flavour of what is undoubtedly the feeling by most people there. (If anyone doesn't think this is true, they should take a look at some other websites and see what they're saying - and no, not the Xbox360 site...)

    I do have to say though, unless Nintendo actually said it, the headline about them conceding the next generation was a tad OTT. A different strategy is not the same as giving up, even though from an observers point of view it's hard to see them competing. And since you changed it, I think you must have realised that anyway.

  • Henrik #10 7 years ago

    It's very, very sad that people actually get upset about things like this.

  • mcmonkeyplc #11 7 years ago

    Good points there, well made. The only thing that stands out most from your coverage and probably whats causing all this shit is that subtitle to your PS3 feature "the real next generation".

    That to me sounds like your having a direct dig at microsoft and the xbox 360.
    Putting a question mark after the subtitle or getting rid of it all together might go a long way.
    Other than that it is all your opinion.

    To be honest i've had enough of this E3 all ready. This one day has totally killed my hunger for gaming information.

    Maybe the industry should keep that in mind. Its all excellent as a show piece event but this year its just stupid.
    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 18/05/05 @ 01:25

  • Kiigan #12 7 years ago

    Bottom line - a LOT of the so-called PS3 "game footage" that was shown was neither real-time, nor running on PS3. Personally I don't blame EG if they were duped by it, or for wanting to believe in it, or for coming out of the Sony press conference all excited and enthusiastic. Some of it was very impressive after all (such as the tech demos, and the Unreal demo) so it is natural to want it all to be true.

    And, although MS haven't shown anything amazing on Xbox 360 yet, they have at least been arguably a bit more honest with their promo footage. So, some readers were irked to see EG trash Xbox 360 in favour of PS3 on the strength of a few tech demos and spec sheets.

    That said, I don't think it is helpful or interesting to get distracted by such trivialities as (a) Microsoft wanky corporate-speak (b) tatty MTV promotions or (c) mocked-up PS3 game footage. It could be said that the EG coverage of E3 has been a tad negative towards Xbox 360, with the focus seeming to rest on the "awesome" PS3 game footage and the ridiculous, tedious corporate ramblings of Allard, Bach et al.

    I humbly suggest Eurogamer stick with what they know best - gaming, videogames, and the consoles that run them. All the other shit is just distraction. Right now, neither PS3 nor Xbox 360 have had any great games announced for them. Until they have, who cares?
    Edited by Kiigan at 18/05/05 @ 01:39

  • phAge #13 7 years ago

    Maybe (and this is just an idea) what got people all riled up is the fact that you don´t (anywhere I can spot anyway) make any caveats or speculations over the fact that while the 360 games and demos were actually running on a machine that is, if not identical then at least very similar to the one we´ll be buying in 6 months, the PS3 demonstrations (not the real-time UT3 *Tech Demo* or the rubberduck), were quite probably nothing more than renders - or at least running on hardware quite a bit more powerful than the finished PS3?

    This is not a bias - it´d have to be a conscious effort to be such a thing - but it IS a mistake. I´m not saying that you should not get excited about the admittedly EXTREMELY impressive demos (Killzone = OMGWTF indeed), but merely that perhaps you should first consider on what basis you are judging the footage. Hell, (/smarmy mode on) maybe its even BECAUSE you usually do such a fine job of NOT getting hyped, that people are getting upset.

    I guess it all boils down to this: allowing for the following:

    1: A lot of the PS3 demos were quite probably pre-rendered.

    2: The hardware used to display the realtime stuff was quite probably a lot more powerful than the final PS3 specs.

    2: The realtime stuff was exclusively tech DEMOS - and not actual game code.

    - do you then still think that the PS3 completely destroys the Xbox 360?

    I´m not a fanboy by any means (if it turns out that the PS3 *is* indeed the better machine, I´ll buy it over the 360 in a heartbeat), but I gotta admit that after reading the rather convincing arguments AGAINST all this soul-destroying power of the PS3, I am bewildered by a total lack of said caveats and skepticism from the EG E3 crew.

    I understand that you are gamers, and as such every bit as hype-susceptible as the next, er, geek - but when the gamers back home raise certain (IMO very valid) points, it IS strange to note their complete abscense from your coverage.

    Otherwise, keep on trucking - you´re still my no. 1 games site - bar none.

  • CrumpetBoy #14 7 years ago

    I was (and, in all honesty, still am) biased against Sony. I wouldn't have considered the PS3 at all for my next console purchase were it not for the positive things I've heard from EG, but considering it I am - because EG's (so far) positive opinion isn't empty "Sony's great and everyone else is rubbish" flibbery but has some substance to back it up. It's still an opinion, but a *reasoned* one, and I come here (among half a dozen other game sites) specifically to read reasoned opinions.
    Oh, and controversial headlines aside it's nice to see somebody's at least noticed the Revolution: some gaming sites seem to have ignored it completely, which seems a bit harsh. In my (biased) opinion, of course...

  • Nikanoru #15 7 years ago

    I really don't mind EG speaking of what they see - if one console is making a better impression than the other to them, they should write it down. As they always have.

    What I was disappointed about, like many others, was the (thankfully changed) headline to the Nintendo article, and in another article a line praising the "nextgen" detail of two PS3 ladies who very obviously had less to go with than many a current-gen cyberbabe.



    Any other complaints I may have are purely directed at the console makers themselves. For obvious reasons.

  • Phonicpod #16 7 years ago

    I think you guys have been doing a great job. I don't think you sound biased, to me, the Xbox360 definately has had a weaker unveiling... my reaction was the same. We will see if sony actually delivers on these promises, and they'd be very stupid not to, but they have certainly met my expectations of what next generation 'should' look like.

    I can't wait for all the new consoles! Not too interested in the revolution though.. :)

  • Freek #17 7 years ago

    They weren't critising the Xbox 360. They were critising the way it was presented and the men who presented it. The press confrence was pants and they reported that.
    Gears of War got praised plenty as did the new Live features, there simply wasn't much more to get excited about. That was the press confrence fault not the Xbox 360, the articles are not about how much the hardware sucked but how much MS made a mess of the presentation.
    Edited by Freek at 18/05/05 @ 02:20

  • spillz #18 7 years ago

    "We were convinced of the truth of a lot of what they showed. Some of it was clearly teaser style trailing and guestimation, but a lot of it clearly was not. And in time you'll probably share that view. If you don't, or it becomes abundantly clear that we were all hoodwinked then we won't shy away from reflecting that on these pages too."

    I think one problem that many readers are having with your recent articles is that the HARDWARE was judged on 1. notoriously misleading cpu specs and 2. the SOFTWARE demos that were presented by the two companies. I would be HIGHLY surprised if each company's hardware wasn't capable of running the others real time demos (reprogrammed of course). Despite the tflop advantages of the PS3, data throughput limitations and more complex processing than a bunch of floating point ops will level the playing field.

    I'm still a little disappointed that Microsoft's decidedly dubious marketing approach (an off-kilter attempt to mimic apple's lifestyle marketing?) has seemed to colour the EG commentary on the actual hardware. dig a little deeper guys.
    Edited by spillz at 18/05/05 @ 02:23

  • Yaz #19 7 years ago

    Excellent post phAge. Except for point 2, you echoed my own thoughts on this issue. :)
    Edited by Yaz at 18/05/05 @ 02:44

  • Feanor #20 7 years ago

    It's nice to see a decent response to all the criticism. But I must say that having seen the Killzone 2 display on TV tonight, it's extremely obvious it wasn't gameplay footage (no bloody cross-hair for one thing!) and the same goes for Motor Storm. Actually, I thought Killing Day looked awesome too, but then I found out from the hosts of the G4 TV 2-hour special that was prerendered as well

    phAge's post is brilliant and it would be great if someone from Eurogamer could responsd SPECIFICALLY to the points he raised. phAge speaks for a lot of us who aren't pro-Xbox nutters, just gamers who respect Eurogamer and can't understand why so much weight was given to prerendered footage. Hopefully Tom will check the comments on his article and respond soon.
    Edited by Feanor at 18/05/05 @ 03:21

  • firm3d #21 7 years ago

    As far as people not believing that the PS3 footage is in fact PS3 footage, I understand why you think that; you don't have a frame of reference for what the graphics of such a ridiculously powerful console might look like. We're talking about a console with a cluster of processors versus two single-processor consoles whose processors are slower than EACH of the processors in the PS3. As Tom says "it would be catastrophically moronic of Sony to fake that kind of presentation".

    PS
    Hate those controllers.

  • Gl3n #22 7 years ago

    Really agree with phAge's post up there. He pretty much hit the nail on the head.
    Nice to have a decent response from the staff, cheers Tom.

  • Feanor #23 7 years ago

    'As Tom says "itwould be catastrophically moronic of Sony to fake that kind
    of presentation".'

    No, no it wouldn't. They did exactly that with the PS2 and the PS2 went on to dominate its generation. We care about tech demos vs. gameplay vs. prerendered footage, but most of the people who buy consoles don't and won't ever hear about this controversy. And Sony are under no legal obligation to refrain from being misleading or even outright lieing when it comes to their E3 videos.
    Edited by Feanor at 18/05/05 @ 03:28

  • SaccharinMetric #24 7 years ago

    Frankly, I'm not sure an editor should give too much of a toss what's going on in the comment threads. The type of people who would complain about bias (or even if there is, not know how to see through it) are probably not advertising prime demographics (nor Mensa candidates.)

    The articles so far have been tilted, but everybody's flagged how and why, and everything's been justified. I think you guys are totally right to castrate Xbox for their lowest-common denominator approach to marketing, and their "1 billion" comment will stand out as one of the most offensive things I've ever heard come out of the mouth of an executive.

    Being that this is an article about Eurogamer, not about E3, I'll add that I'm impressed with the level of journalism that goes on around here, and it *is* journalism for the most part, and perhaps the confusion comes when people see a game site having an opinion instead of the shiny lights of downloadable footage. I come here for intelligent writing, and I was glad to see some intelligent writers' response to both press conferences, not merely to the 'wow' factor of what was on show - I'm fascinated by how these mega-corporations approach consumers and especially the press, and I think it would impact anyone's view of a product if it was presented by J Allard telling me that a billion people will be using it.

    Please, continue with the angry tirades. Better that than..well...IGN. ... I will also point out that *even* IGN say that the Xbox 360 showing was dissapointing next to PS3's. But I see their comment threads lighting up as well. Jerks!
    Edited by SaccharinMetric at 18/05/05 @ 03:57

  • Feanor #25 7 years ago

    Umm, don't know how to break this to you, but IGN were being sarcastic.

  • SaccharinMetric #26 7 years ago

    Break it to me anyway you like! Upon reading the article, I get it, I just did a search for comments on IGN and didn't read the context. Guess I better apply for a journalism job - I've got the quoting skills for it.

    Allard still said it, though. With his mouth. He used mouth words to speak. I want to shoot him with gun bullets .... from a bullet gun. I love how the audience clapped, too.
    Edited by SaccharinMetric at 18/05/05 @ 04:03

  • Abscido #27 7 years ago

    Once again, to all the EG bashers, please read:

    Look, one thing (in my opinion) should be put straight here. I'm a full-time journalist, and let me tell you this: there is no such thing as truly *balanced* journalism. To associate journalism with balanced viewpoints is false - the great thing about EG is that they are heartfelt and you can *trust* them. To give a truly 'balanced' opinion, you have to ignore your actual feelings in the face of what *should* be acceptable. If you want un-opinionated viewpoints, go read some bullshit site that will feed you specs and semantics. Yes, undoubtedly, EG have gotten carried away with themselves a little - in their verbosity - but at least you can be sure the reasons for doing so are genuine.

    I will defend EG as such: I know some of the writers personally, and you could not find more genuine lovers of games anywhere. Journalism is not always about reporting facts straight up - sometimes it is a matter of opinion and passion too. Microsoft had a shit E3 presentation and EG - as always - have been honest about their reactions. A little too honest, perhaps, but honest nonetheless. On what other site would you find such "fanboyish" love juxtaposed by an article that addresses the concerns of the readers, such as this one does.

    EG have made one mistake, and that is to get carried away by their enthusiasm. The X360 bashing has been mostly unjustified, but conversely warranted in light of Microsoft's decision to unveil the console in icky celeb fashion a week before E3, the industry's traditional spotlight.

    In short, EG might have gotten carried away with the hyperbole, but they are reporting things as they *feel* it, rather than as they are told it. Surely that is why you visit this site? If not, why are you even here? For god's sake, it is one of the few big sites left that truly maintains a genuine *gaming* core, rather than the hollow (believe me) heart of journalism . I love this site - and the opinions shown here - for its true passion for games; these people, as I know them, love this art form. I make *no* money from my love of games, despite being a games journalist, and these people deserve more respect than has been shown here today.

    Fuck it, I'm drunk and even more annoyed than I was earlier. EG readers should remember why they are on this site in the first place. Have a little tolerance, for god's sake.

    EDIT: yeah yeah, drunken typos etc :)
    Edited by Abscido at 18/05/05 @ 04:03

  • firm3d #28 7 years ago

    Why don't we just condense the spirit of the article that started this thread down to "Please please please just be a little more objective and a little less blinkered, with a little healthy dose of open-mindedness, because after all this is new stuff. It's supposed to be exciting, not one big bitch-fight!", hmm?

    Correct me if I'm wrong ... I know you will :(

    Oh, and check out an article on logical fallacies at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3816795 and see how many apply to comments above.
    Edited by firm3d at 18/05/05 @ 04:16

  • spillz #29 7 years ago

    From the contentious articles I've pulled out the "facts" used as the basis for the claims of the "vast" superiority of the PS3. Frankly I'm not convinced (not that I care too much either way since games will be a blast on either, but the failure of one or the other would be pretty negative for gaming as a whole)

    judge for yourself. its pretty coloured at the least (and you guys were critical of microsofts hyperbole). it seems you guys were really taken in by a forewarned and pre-armed sony.

    From Rob:

    "PlayStation 3 is more powerful, more fully featured, more innovative and better supported than Xbox 360."

    "We're not just talking about a console that's twice as powerful as Xbox 360 in simple, logical terms (and bear in mind that that's a far, far greater gap in power than existed between PS2 and Xbox); we're talking about a console with more functionality, with fewer corners cut and with a genuinely more impressive line-up of software."

    "Sony's hardware, its software, and even its simple display of confidence in its own product have completely outclassed Microsoft today "

    From Tom:
    "Despite supporting virtually everything we could want, it[XBOX360] doesn't do it all out of the box and to a high enough standard. Having sat through Sony's exhausting and meticulously detailed conference in LA's Culver City this afternoon, I can tell you with some certainty that PlayStation 3 does these things"

    "It[PS3] supports progressive scan up to 1080p - significantly better than the Xbox 360's top-end 1080 interlaced resolution - and can do it on two screens at once. It can do things graphically that PCs cannot do, let alone Xbox 360. And things that PCs won't be able to do at least until after the console launches next spring. Xbox 360 games look like high-end PC games; gorgeous, but like games."

    "Equally thanks to its[PS3s] utterly comprehensive support of every conceivable format, form of media playback and more. The new IP camera will basically let you whack up live video streams wherever you are. It's compatible with everything: PS1 games, PS2 games, EyeToy, PSP (and, as Rob suggested to me earlier, you wouldn't bet against PS3 wirelessly streaming video to the PSP as a kind of remote video handset), Memory Stick, wireless networks, and so on. Xbox 360 does things like this, but it's "ready" to do most of them, rather than doing them out of the box."
    Edited by spillz at 18/05/05 @ 04:22

  • firm3d #30 7 years ago

    spillz, there's not a single logical fallacy in sight; all statements are verifiable (most in a simple specs list for the PS3). Therefore, I don't think you have much of an argument there. If it IS at all uninformed it's because of Microsoft's choice of debut, since Sony went into much greater detail.

  • spillz #31 7 years ago

    I'm not claiming anything that EG has said is logically inconsistent or verifiably false. but its all riddled with value judgements based on rubbery numbers and two radically different media campaigns.


    the three main areas of alleged superiority are:
    1. CPU/GPU power (slippery comparisons at best since the multiprocessor setups aren't comparable - show me realistic gaming benchmarks)
    2. graphics resolution (1080i vs 2x1080p - will the latter see realistic application? its like saying the xbox has far superior graphics to PS2 because it supports 720p. in any case, anyone who can afford two HDTVs can probably spill for two consoles and a syslink cable)
    3. media support (except for blu-ray very debatable)

    both have optional hard drives and similar ram. convince me that most 3rd part developers won't develop for the lowest common denominator. convince me there is anything that was demoed on the PS3 that couldn't be run in virtually indistinguishable form on xbox360. will the PS3 be superior tech to XBOX360 - undoubtedly - it'll be released 12 months later and technology improves with time. will that vastly improve the quality of games that can be produced? i doubt it.

    The EG boys were clearly excited by something about the PS3, but i think it has more to do with a slick presentation than superior technology.

    bring back the healthy cynicism EG.

    Edited by spillz at 18/05/05 @ 04:51

  • HenryMancini #32 7 years ago

    Spillz, spot on.

    What really got my back up was the "PlayStation 3 - The Real Next Generation" headline and a few lines in the "Xbox 360 - The Undiluted Hyperbole" article, notably this:

    "Sequelitis - Trawling out the big hits for Xbox all over again lacks imagination. Microsoft needs a spirit of adventure. Sony has crushed them in this department, amazingly" - that one's just unjustifiable, given the range of 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's and bloody 6's in the PS3 portfolio.

    Next - on one hand you're whooping it up over the fact that PS3 will support dual 1080p support, on the other you're knocking Microsoft for supporting 1080i as "High Def: What a total load of bull." (admittedly, maybe MS shouldn't make such a big deal out of the HD generation - but go to Circuit City while you're in LA and see how many HD TV's you spot.)

    Still, swings & roundabouts. We all have our opinions - shame Rob's are almost perenially happy to knock Microsoft and anything they do (and that's my opinon - just as valid as his, just without such a big readership).

    Enough rambling - keep it up you tossers, makes for interesting reading. Hope you managed to slip into the Playboy mansion tonight :-D

  • Dizzy #33 7 years ago

    If it was not bias than it is just stupidity. I cannot believe that this site, that is always skeptical and critical, now states with childish naivety "we have no reason to believe Sony had fake videos". HELLO? It's not the first time companies have done this. In fact it is standard procedure for hardware that doesn't really exist yet (or barely exists). Instead of defending your decisions you should recognize the real frustrations many loyal reader had by this totally unprofessional string of articles. If this was some stupid tabloid or men’s magazine we could understand, but you guys are supposed to be critical (especially of Sony who have pulled one like this before).
    Of course I will continue to read this site (I love the honesty of the reviews) but it leaves a very bitter aftertaste... suddenly I realize that some of your reviews could easily be hyped up as well.
    Edited by Dizzy at 18/05/05 @ 06:59

  • Scimarad #34 7 years ago

    But Eurogamer, don't you realise you're not supposed show enthusiasm? Especially not for anything Sony creates - It is after all the mass-market choice of mindless drones:-)

    I think your reactions are utterly understandable and I happen to agree with them. I 'quite liked' the initial Xbox360 stuff, was blown away by the statistics of the system but was suprisingly unimpressed by pretty much all the screenshots & videos aside for Gears of War...Then there was the Sony press conference.

    I mean seriously it was on another level to the patronising crap that Microsoft seem to think we are impressed by - And the actual console and footage; It IS the next gen compared to the stuff Microsoft showed us and my level of excitement went through the roof as a result. Not bias, just simple gut reaction.

    I think Microsoft fanboys are just a little unnerved at not being able to wave that 'technically superior' flag that they love so much...


  • HenryMancini #35 7 years ago

    Golly gosh Scrimarad - no. I'm not unnerved by the technology flag being passed to Sony. I'll buy and enjoy both consoles, and quite frankly if you think that the terraflops war is what's going to decide which can produce the better games, you're crazy.

    What I am pissed off about is the slipping of Eurogamer's mask - loved their articles and style and stuff, up until now. But now they've stuffed up. I'm not in love with them any more.

    Don't you remember how Sony rubbished Sega last time out, and helped destroy the Dreamcast with vaporware specs and weasel claims of superiority that never materialised? Heres take two of that strategy... and Eurogamer seem to have fallen for it. Expected better of them.
    Edited by HenryMancini at 18/05/05 @ 07:14

  • Genji #36 7 years ago

    Of course, you realise that any amount of the touted specs from Sony and Microsoft may turn out to be complete bullshit. Let's just wait and see the games. The whole point of these promotional conferences is to hype the good stuff while glossing over the bad.

  • Les #37 7 years ago

    I'm biased, I hate M$. So if Eurogamer says PS3 looks better than 360, I'm inclined to believe that, because it's what I want to hear. Like I really wanted to hear Eurogamer say Killzone was a great FPS and better than Halo. I read the review a couple of times and thought they must be wrong. Almost went to the shop and bought the game, but thankfully I didn't. A few weeks later I played Killzone at a friend's place and I had to admit Eurogamer was right. That still won't mean I'll always follow their recommendations blindly. The best thing to do is to check as much sources of information as possible and try to form an opinion of your own.

  • Scimarad #38 7 years ago

    FFS

    Oh I forgot how poor saintly Sega were viciously stabbed in the back by Sony...Oh, wait wasn't that Microsoft?

    I for one suggest you examine these accusations of fanboyism and see how YOU measure up...

    Have you actually READ my post, or just reacted mindlessly to whay you thought I was saying?
    Edited by Scimarad at 18/05/05 @ 07:46

  • tannerd #39 7 years ago

    I think part of the problem is that you're writing editorials in the middle of a hype bubble.

    By all means post what you are thinking at this point in time, but in a couple of weeks come back and look at it when you're sat in England, it's raining and property ladder's on the telly.

  • BartonFink #40 7 years ago

    Maybe when they have digested all that hype they might be a little less enthusiastic. I doubt is though.

  • pjmaybe #41 7 years ago

    If you guys were that impressed by a bunch of CGI rolling demos, you must think the "Got your nose" gag is the best thing EVAH!!

    Sorry chaps but you deserve the stern criticism. Making statements like "the true next generation is here" based on some (admittedly very slick) CGI just read like something from SPONG, not EG.

    Peej

  • MikeD #42 7 years ago

    Jesus christ, people. What's with the long posts. Comment sections are supposed to be easy tor ead through. :-)

    I think it's funny the article is basically the EG guys being offended because someone said Bias. Oh deary me, they said bias, whatever shall we do?!! Let's write an editorial that we are very much opposed to them calling us this!.

    it was not the point

    Your coverage was one-sided, inconsistent, hype-riddled and even bordering on stupid at moments.

    Instead of focussing on the one word (bias) maybe you should see that there were some actual good arguments made against your articles. Sure the Sony presentation was better, but to make value judgements about the machines and games on so many levels because of that is wrong, and that's just what happened.

    Commenting on the pause and camera move is a cop-out because that was 1 tech demo, the unreal one. I have seen no convincing argument that any of the amazing game-demos were being rendered inagme right there. In-gengine maybe, but that's a whole different matter.

    So fuck bias. There are no Sony banners on the site and nobody thought you were in leagues with them or anything. But also fuck unprofessionalism and writing articles while hyped up. (or hyped against, though I can understand that the MS presentation sucked). Let other sites write in the spur of the moment. I expect better of EG.

  • ssuellid #43 7 years ago

    If you are going to base your editorial on tech demos running on unknown hardware then expect criticism.

    All that is required is some sceptisism - you really beleive what you have seen is representative of the final released games? - or are you looking at mock ups?

    Unless you have seen the games yourself running on actual hardware?

    After the last gen pre hype I would have thought that people would have learnt something - but obviously not.

  • TardKommando #44 7 years ago

    Downloading the vidoes of the two full presentations now, so no comment on any of the alleged bias till i have seen them.

    Though I have seen the Killzone 2 video and if you think that was not pre-rendered please kill yourself now.

    Go look at the Killzone shots again. Closely. If you know anything about lighting, you'll see that the character models are radiosity lit by their environment. And look at that guys hair. And look at the closeup of the arm in the left of the screen. The resolution on that texture and bump is just out of this world. And show me one hint of a polygonal edge anywhere. I dont buy those shots for one minute.

    Anyone done much rendering with mental ray? Final gather, G.I type stuff? That shit takes forever to render. While the U3 engine stuff looks feasible, if you know anything about advanced lighting, and examine those Killzone shots, well, thats an absolutely STAGGERING achievement if its true. Even looking at the U3 video you can see the polygonal edges if you look closely. You can see the texture resolution limitations. Now try and find ANY evidence in the Killzone stuff that it's realtime and there is NONE. Not ONE polygonal edge anywhere. So they figured out Subdivision surface rendering for the PS3 this early in its development and everything in this movie is SUbD's? How do you explain the lack of polygonal silhouette anwyhere in these shots??

    So a PS3 can render in realtime, the same quality lighting that would previously take DAYS on a HUGE renderfarm? Er, no.

    Also the video is so obviously choreographed. Every move the 'player' makes, every little glance in a particular direction that is made, something happens. The ship flying into camera. All of it. It's storyboarded. It's screamingly obvious. It's a movie. ( and a pretty cool one too though.)

    If this is realtime, then the makers of Killzone have figured out realtime subdivision surface rendering on the PS3, whereas NO other developer currently showing their wares has. So a tiny games shop in Amsterdam are the only people to have figured out Subdivision surface rendering amongst ALL the other developers out there? Try and remember that that's the SAME games shop that produced the utter garbage that was Killzone. The game was plagued with horrific technical problems. The framerate, the animation compression. They must have gotten a pretty damn l33t coding team all of a sudden to figure out SubD rendering, hair systems. They are not alpha mapped polygons. They are individually animated hairstrands on many characters on screen at once. There is JUST NO WAY. It takes me several minutes to render one frame of one head of hair using a hair systems plug-in now in Maya.

    I will also say that most of the strict tech/hardware sites (as opposed to games) are postulating that the PS3 will be nowhere near as powerful as the specs would intially indicate.

    Anyhow interesting times!

  • knif3r #45 7 years ago

    sorry just had to say:

    Halo 2 beats Killzone hands down.

    I've played both so you can be assured that this comment is unbiased.



    *Was that alright Mr Allard?*
    *Yes, my son*

  • Mashum #46 7 years ago

    I can't think of any other gaming site that I trust. It's been that way for a long time now and I'm very thankful for all of the info, laughs and the afternoons of work lost to them.

    It's not so much bias but a lack of diligence and some damning judgements based on PR specs and mocked up games - especially Rob and Tom's articles for reasons that have been well discussed. These opinions will set people's views and I would like to see the best console win, not the sneakiest PR dept.

    I would like to know more about the realtime demos including some discussion on how well tech demos reflect what the live gaming experience will be. Also how about some level headed discussion on what the PR specs actually mean, there must be a boffin or two working at EG towers.

  • Pirotic #47 7 years ago

    So why did you go and change the 'revolution' story head-line? You pretty much said Nintendo had given up on the next generation in order to make a shocking headline without any basis.

    Then we get to the bit where everybody suddenly became a technical genius and announced the PS3 made the xbox360 look underpowered. They haven't even designed the pad yet, let alone confirmed the specifications.

    I wont hold it against you, but you did jump the gun and it did get a bit out of hand. just hope future converage is a little more relaxed and thoughtfull.
    Edited by Pirotic at 18/05/05 @ 09:07

  • Razz #48 7 years ago

    They're STILL being biased. They didn't even mention Nintendo.

  • kentmonkey #49 7 years ago

    Abscido, could you just remove your tongue from Tom's arse when you speak, I couldn't hear a word you were saying mate! ;o)

    With regards to the article, I think just look at MikeD's post. It doesn't bother me what you've written before, if you want to get hyped up about something then fine, I don't care, I'm deliberately not reading most of the E3 coverage as it is all going to just be that at this stage, hype & PR rubbish. But if you do wish to comment on it, & you do want to make sweeping judgements then you've got to expect critiscm. Responding with an article like this just appears more than a little childish in my opinion. That's my opinion & I'm quite happy for people to criticise it should they wish, I only wish you were as well.

    /picks EG's toys up & puts them back in their pram.

  • Tweakmonkey #50 7 years ago

    I think Microsoft fanboys are just a little unnerved at not
    being able to wave that 'technically superior' flag that
    they love so much...

    You're spot on there. Eurogamer is *not* biased, as anyone who has read this site for a long time knows. They have a go at *everyone*, and there are no favourites. I have the utmost respect for these guys, as I think they are very intelligent and professional. It's time to put the toys back in the pram people.

    WE LOVE U EUROGAMER !! :-)

  • Captain Fetid #51 7 years ago

    So, to sum up: EG thought Sony made the best impression of the three.

    Great, I thought the same.

    Now, on to more coverage!

  • kentmonkey #52 7 years ago

    As you say in your article that you can accept critiscm then I'll give it a go. In your article above you've written:

    "wait for them to turn up in the shops, read the back of the box and fork over your hard-earned based on a few bullet points written by the guys whose paycheques dry up if they can't convince you to do so."

    But isn't this what you are doing here? You're making a judgement on a few bullet points & screenshots & no cold hard actual facts. Sure tell us the specs, tell us what that means for us less techy people, tell us the launch games & then give us an opinion on which one you can see succeeding & why & what concerns you have for each console. But please, don't write off other consoles based on bullet points & screenshots as then you're no better than the people you are claiming others on here to be.

    Remember, I'm not one of these "angry" people you reference on here as I really couln't give a rats arse about the next gen consoles for the next 18 months at the very least as I've still got (goes away to count) 37 games I've got less than an hour into & still need finishing & 16 games not even started. I think that's enough to keep me going for at least the next 18-24 months, therefore I'm not even remotely excited about the next gen at the mo.

    Regardless of what you've written here over the past couple of days, I will keep returning & I'm sure many others will as well as it's a place that it great to visit, has a great community, has great reviews (never seem to agree with the scores but very well written all the same) & I can't find anywhere better on the web to go. However, that usually great journalism has gone down hill over the past few days & it's unlike EG, hence I think why there has been such a backlash & so much critiscm thrown at you.

    I think the best thing you can do is to spend an hour or so tonight going over some of the excellent comments made, both above & in the forum, & try to decide on what it is that you are doing that has pissed so many people off over the last few days. These people are usually very loyal to EG & you might want to appreciate their comments more & respond to their questions rather than get upset about the fact that one or two people said you were biased.

  • Mr_Brown #53 7 years ago

    I can see how Sony 'outclassed' Xbox Hardware wise. I agree with that. But Software wise they haven't. Let me be frank. Sony have not shown any final software for PS3 yet. The clips they have shown are tech demos and although they do show what the PS3 is capable of, that doesn't count as software. What they shown was showing off their hardware. Killzone wasn't ingame graphics and nor was GT demo. Unfortunatly other sites have labled these as 'Killzone 2' and 'GT5' when on the tech demo they where not. And they even stated that this was developers showing what their hardware could do. So as far as Xbox being out classed softwarewise by PS3, thats wrong. They had no solid software to speak of.

    But I still don't agree with the articles you've posted. Sure I might be a little partial to Xbox just like alot people who've complained. We are fans of Microsofts console and excited about what we saw from conference. And when a 'respectable' site starts ripping the console apart just because of a bad conference speech, then of course Xbox fans are going to angry. Because we do not share your view on that. I agree they messed up with the conference. But that doesn't mean I wasn't excited about XBox 360 games which were on show and the features they shown.

    The coverage you have done so far on the PS3 and Xbox 360 has been bias. Theres no other way around it. Slating the PS3 the 'real next gen' and also stating that its 'twice as powerful as the Xbox 360' is not respectable reporting when both statements simply aren't true. You're here to be imformative on gameing news for all game fans. Not to publicly shout your opinions and who you like the bestest etc. You've let your readers down and you need to realise that so it doesn't happen again.
    Edited by Mr_Brown at 18/05/05 @ 09:39

  • Bezzy #54 7 years ago

    OooOOooh! Defensive, much?

  • andrewwd #55 7 years ago

    I think the poor E3 coverage seems to be the result of naivety, rather than bias. Eurogamer appears to have mistaken a series of pre-rendered video sequences for actual PS3 games; the articles are marred by an irritating lack of scepticism as opposed to any deliberate bias.

  • Derblington #56 7 years ago

    Ok I don't want to comment too much mainly because I don't want to be caught up in it all. However, I see everyone's point of view but my feeling is a little more on the attacking side. Reviews should be full of your opinions but news articles shouldn't. I have nothing against you putting your opinions in them but first and foremost the news articles should remain neutral. That's all I have to say. I'm sure no-one will actually stop reading the site becuase of this and I hope you don't take it heart and dwell on it in future articles.
    Edited by Derblington at 18/05/05 @ 09:45

  • dragonborne #57 7 years ago

    Please continue to speak your minds. You're at E3, we're not. To think that some readers believe you're not entitled to your own opinions as journalists is frightening. Say it how it is.

    Keep up the great work.

  • knif3r #58 7 years ago

    More on those X360 alpha development kits:

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/615/615667p1.html

    Maybe EG should take this into account...

  • ruttyboy #59 7 years ago

    Still at least the coverage is free eh? Come on, who's with me?

    /looks around at serious looking people

    /'whoops' anyway

    Oh God, I've become an American E3 going cretin!

    /slits throat

  • old_boy #60 7 years ago

    I don't think the coverage of E3 from EG has been biased. However the E3 coverage seems to have had a considerably different tone from previous years and previous articles. I think there has been a blurring of hype, fact and opinion which has upset and confused at least a significant part of the readership.

    So I for one will continue coming back here (daily!) but please take the criticism on-board. We like, the facts, the reaction, and the hype and the opinion. But we also like measured articles and well-may be a few "First impressions" qualifiers would have reassured some folks.

  • Wrobel #61 7 years ago

    You can't really blame Sony for using tech demos & pre-rendered stuff at the presentation. Its very clever marketing as the key target in the short term for Sony is for gamers to wait until the PS3 comes out before upgrading their console. I'm sure from their point of view thay can justify it as being the type of detail that the PS3 might strive to but you can bet that Killzone 2 when it is actually relased will be no where near what we saw at E3.

    The key mistake that Microsoft did was that they didn't do the same.

    As for EG's bias, I think agree with their opinions that the Sony Presentation outclassed Microsofts, however presentations and reality are quite different.

    They key thing missing is balance. Any of the real demos that Sony presented such as the unreal demo could also have be done on a 360. I would to see a Pros and Cons article on the PS3 also because so far on this site it seems that the PS3 has no cons.
    Edited by Wrobel at 18/05/05 @ 10:06

  • Zuiyo #62 7 years ago

    I have been reading Eurogamer daily for about 2 years now and this is for me the most relevant piece of writing I've read.
    Edited by Zuiyo at 18/05/05 @ 10:16

  • Tweakmonkey #63 7 years ago

    Sure I might be a little partial to Xbox just like alot people who've complained

    And there we have it. The biggest moaners are the fanboys as they are the ones who've been stung the most by the E3 coverage. It's all swings and roundabouts though, as last time MS rained on Sony's parade and you guys got good mileage out of it.

    But when the dust settles we'll find the Xbox 360 is still a very good next-gen machine, and it's out this year - so lets all be friends.

  • marilena #64 7 years ago

    I've said it in another thread, but as there seem to be a million of them I'll repeat it here: the problem si not that you'd be biased, or that you have opinions. The problem is that your articles are poorly thought out and show no knowledge of the games industry.

    Yes, you are gamers, but that doesn't mean you are meant to say silly things. The Motorstorm demo impressed you, fine, but couldn't you temper your enthusiasm a little and ask yourself if the final game will actually be like that?

    This editorial isn't helping much, in my opinion, as it's basically telling us to read and shut up. "Go home and stop calling us biased!" should be the subtitle.

  • space_ace #65 7 years ago

    hey ken was it pre-rendered?!

    only you can end this.

  • MoFo #66 7 years ago

    Well I read the articles and I found them entertaining and amusing. Indeed I enjoyed them so much that I wanted to get more similar opinions on the X360 and PS3. Except when I went to all those other mindless clones of gaming sites all I found was reviews giving the facts. No opinions, no humour, no excitement. Yawn!

    Please please please Eurogamer don't ever change the way you are because of forum posters. If there's anyone being biased it's mostly from the posters. When they read anything they slightly disagree with they go off on a wobbly claiming YOU to be the biased ones.

    It's been said so many times before but people never seem to listen. A review is written by you. It's your opinion. We're reading it because we want to read your take on things - not have a simple bland coverage of the facts. This is what makes Eurogamer what it is, so get off their case people!

  • MoFo #67 7 years ago

    but that doesn't mean you are meant to say silly things

    What the fuck! that's the whole reason I come here. Jesus is everyone turning in to Zombie's? God help us!

  • Darkedge #68 7 years ago

    Said it before and I'll say it again:
    SONY HAS WON THE PR WAR - THIS ROUND
    thats all.

  • spazmo #69 7 years ago

    I think you should take a more cool, calm and collected look at things before getting excited. For example Tom, on the MTV XBox night you were wetting yourself over the video. Whats your opinion now?

    On another note,
    Sony claims 35 times more powerful.
    Microsoft claims 12 times more powerful.
    Nintendo claims 2-3 times more powerful.

    On that basis, we should expect to see a huge gulf between Sony's games and the rest. Lets wait and see shall we?
    Edited by spazmo at 18/05/05 @ 10:27

  • Tweakmonkey #70 7 years ago

    The problem is that your articles are poorly thought out and show no knowledge of the games industry

    marilena - that is laughable. You're embarassing yourself, and no one's taking you seriously making statements like that.

  • teabagger #71 7 years ago

    "The problem is that your articles are poorly thought out and show no knowledge of the games industry. "

    As someone who is in the industry I disagree with that statement. The opinion of ANYONE who plays games is important, not having knowledge of the industry does not mean an opinion is invalid. Frankly, if everyone in the industry took the view that 'you can't possibly be right because you don't know about the industry' then we'd be, quite rightly, out of a job pretty fucking sharpish. Certainly I don't always agree with an article but then that's life and we should all be mature enough to accept differences of opinion and move on. If you really find the articles to be that bad then why are you still here?

  • Teeth #72 7 years ago

    Razz: LOL

  • #73 7 years ago

    EG Staff, just a small point. When you say:

    "But this week apparently all that's been forgotten because we've stuck our necks out and said, having seen both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 up close, that we reckon the PS3 is decidedly more impressive."

    It kind of implies (to me) that you're not inluding the Nintendo and do not think this will be a three horse race... If that is the case, so be it, but if it isn't, please shine some of that all-important limelight in Nintendos direction too every now and then... The way I see it, they are the one's catering the MOST for the *gamer* (ie, all of us).

    Thanks!

  • Xerx3s #74 7 years ago

    All sony did was make prerenderd BS. You should know better than that EG! If you dont know what im talking about, perhaps you should digg into the archives and take a look at how things where at the PS2 launch.

    Ive seen all three launches, and i think that the nintendo/ms conf's where far more interesting than the preanimated films sony made.

    Ow, our console can render maps from sattelite info! Bohoe! big deal, that technology is ancient! Matrox did that years ago (and others even before them) and anyone can do it (hell, even my C64 can do that with some tweaking :))! Ow, even better! Terrain that can transform realtime (realtime always seems to get the attendion of the media masses that dont think for themselves)! *g* Now thats a NEW thing! Really. Not. And it even looks ugly. Anything they showed there can be demystified. No, really, the game films showed at the ms conf (especially at the end) are far more interesting.

    No, the only thing Sony demonstrated is its superior capability to play the ignorant masses. And sad part is, even that isnt new.

  • teabagger #75 7 years ago

    "All sony did was make prerenderd BS"

    Off the top of my head, Unreal was realtime and Heavenly sword was captured directly from the game engine. So, in short, you're talking bollocks.

  • silver-jon #76 7 years ago

    You are very much "the men". I'm with you on this. React and report. What is so wrong about getting excited reporting the developments on something you love ?!! At the moment it's a wonderful thing to feel excited about the consoles again, after 3 years of not really feeling that "Gotta Have THAT !" yearning in your soul.
    There's plenty of time over the next 12 months for us to grow used to the exciting new specs, and objectively critique the new games. but for now, can't we all just stop being cynical "too-cool-for-school" killjoys, and instead just open up to feeling thrilled and optimistic ?
    Keep going Raups and Co. Ignore the vociferous rabble of negative ignorami (is that the plural ?). We know you'll revert to objective journalistic reviewing when the machines and the games (and our wallets) see the light of day.

  • gamesb*tch #77 7 years ago

    i still say you are gfx fanboys... ;P

  • Mox #78 7 years ago

    I still think it's just wrong to report things like "PS3 is the real next-gen console" or that the X360 is "outclassed" at this stage. It's far too early to tell. No-one has real production kit at this stage; I know developers working on PS3 launch titles who don't have a cell-based dev kit yet, and although the X360 kit is closer to being real it's still short of the mark.

    In fact, that seems to be a problem for Microsoft; they are close enough they are showing on alpha and beta dev kit, while Sony is still playing movies and running on random super-hardware. Kind of reminds me of Ultra 64.

  • IronGiant #79 7 years ago

    Ha ha.. this one just keeps giving. EG can say/write/opinionate as much as they want to, it's their site and like they say if you don't like it don't come back. Simple really.

  • JimboUK #80 7 years ago

    firm3d: "Please please please just be a
    little more objective and a little less blinkered, with a
    little healthy dose of open-mindedness, because after all
    this is new stuff. It's supposed to be exciting, not one
    big bitch-fight!"

    Well said. EG is a great site, and I come here because I know it's pretty much the only place I can get honest opinions of games and consoles. EG: don't change a single thing about the site, just because some whingy fanboys didn't agree with something.

  • Pinchy #81 7 years ago

    /hands out tissues to the xboxen fanboys

    Dry. Your. Fucking. Eyes.

  • Killdare #82 7 years ago

    Isn't this whole row just a product of the way the internet works? Magazines, newspapers, TV shows, radio shows et al get loads of accusations of bias every time they venture an opinion about anything. The difference is they get to decide how many of those accusations appear in print/on screen &c. With the internet, almost all the readers comments are there for everyone to see, including the ones written in metaphorical green ink/by 7-year-olds/by slavering fan boys.

    Eurogamer does a damn fine job very well. Keep up the good work.
    Edited by Killdare at 18/05/05 @ 10:55

  • deaner #83 7 years ago

    Eurogamer appears to have been labelled 'bias' by those who are themselves biased (and hypocritical). Those who undoubtedly own XBox consoles and have become defensive of the platform. This is a common trend amongst younger gamers and nothing to worry about.

    I am a PS2, XBox and PC gamer. I have been reading Eurogamer's coverage of the next-gen battle and am positive they have at no point offered any biased opinion.

    For XBox owners, the fact that Sony's PS3 surpasses Microsoft's XBox360 on both a technical level and in terms of innovation, may be a little hard to swallow. But Eurogamer highlighting these facts (albeit in a humorous manner - involving ridicule of the Microsoft hype machine) does not make them biased.

    Eurogamer appear to have unwittingly revealed a tragedy of modern business:
    - Microsoft have a disappointing console market share.
    - They invest in developing an impressive unit to put them on top.
    - Some months before launch, they discover Sony’s next-gen unit is three-times more impressive.
    - They panic.
    - They instigate damage limitation, by launching an OTT marketing campaign and bringing forward their console unveiling and release, and talking about Halo 3.
    - Sony endure the backlash, happy that for the first time in some years, they make the higher-spec machine.
    - Nintendo sit back and remember that innovation and the quality of games comes first, not sales.

    In a world without marketing, you would all be behind Eurogamer 100%.

  • swelt #84 7 years ago

    The reason I come here and not gamespot or IGN or a/n/other site is just because of the unfettered editorial comment that this site gives. Keep it up, it's your niche.

  • drumbaby #85 7 years ago

    Glad we got that cleared up. Now we can all get on with acknowledging PS3 as the best console of E3.

    /sprints for the exit cackling like a twat

  • Universal_Hamster #86 7 years ago

    *Takes out two cents, throws*
    Why is everyone getting so upset over this? This isnt a conspiracy to enslave the populace, this is the launch of new games consoles. The PS3 vids (Prerendered or not) have shown me what to expect of the next gen. If Sony let me down on this, I'll be dissapointed, and wont buy thier machine. If sony dont have a significant margin on the xbox in terms of power, it will give MS a real advantage with its early release. (Remember Sega were dying off before the dreamcast, the xbox is on the rise)
    Relax folks, EG are just saying what they see, which is all anyone can expect during an event like this. All available info on the next gen systems is merely hype. Dont spit the dummy juust because you feel you are being fooled. There are plenty of months ahead where harder facts will be available.

  • Mox #87 7 years ago

    I don't believe the technical details on paper are enough to decide one way or another on these two platforms. In my experience, knowing peak theoretical performance tells you very little about real-world performance. It's all very application dependent. It's definitely far too early to call it one way or another. In fact, looking at the paper specs I'd say we won't really know for sure until a year or two after launch, once developers really get a chance to try the machines through their paces. They are close - much closer than Xbox vs. PS2.

  • Les #88 7 years ago

    It's quite stunning to see so many people enthusiastically defending a M$ product. That someone has feelings for Nintendo and their large heritage, that I can understand. But being emotionally attached to the company that rips you off while you guys are posting your messages... Why do you think M$'s coffers are stashed? Does the word “monopoly” ring a bell?

    Oh, by the way, this is what the guy from Epic said about the PS3 videos:

    “In addition to the Sony demos being shown by Phil Harrison, the Epic and EA presentations were the only third party portions actually running on the PS3 in real-time. But most of those movies, which I probably watched three or four during rehearsals for the event, look very achievable and some were probably rendered on the actual box but in non-real-time. When a system is year away, heck even with a system is six months away, it is reasonable to expect the power of the dev kits would still only be a fraction of the power of the final system.

    I know we'll certainly be able to achieve much more on the final box than we were able to show in our demo after working with the early dev kit for only ~2 months. As Tim mentioned our demo only really showed off the power of RSX and then still we're talk about an RSX that's nowhere near as fast as the final one will be. When we get home from E3 we'll also start diving seriously into the power of the cell processor. This is a very powerful system!

    Sony's cell demos were extremely cool and inspiring but are totally achievable, and over time even surpassable, by third developers like us because, as Tim Sweeney said, the development environment is made up of parts we're already intimately familiar with: OpenGL, NVIDIA graphics, Linux, and PowerPC. Think about Epic's experience, for example. We rock on NVIDIA hardware. We have been doing OpenGL since Unreal 1. We regularly ship our games on Linux and we've won several Macintosh Game of the Year awards including a special World-Wide Design Award directly from Apple for UT2004. We're going to be able to kick serious ass on PS3, and so are a lot of our licensees and other 3rd party developers, in a way that wasn't remotely possible on past consoles.

    I should add that we're in a similar position for Xbox 360. It's also made up of parts we're intimately familiar with. My point is that developers are going to be able to get SO MUCH MORE power out of these consoles than they ever could in the past and so much closer to the raw power of the components. The next generation is just going to be AMAZING!!! Next-gen games will be a huge leap forward over current gen. Can you tell I'm excited?”

    So the videos showed might be real or not, according to Epic (whatever that's worth) they are at least achievable on the PS3 that hits the stores in 2006.

  • SFA_AOK #89 7 years ago

    Add another one to the "Not disappointed you voiced your opinion, just disappointed you bought wholesale into the hype."

    I knew Sony's presentation would outclass MS's - they're very good at it. But they're good at fudging numbers, tech demos/games/cg. They're playing the game, a lot better than MS I admit but I'm expecting in game footage from both machines to tell the real story - and it'll be close.

    There are also some inconsistencies between the two reports. "Yay for the higher specced PS3 HDTV output!" vs "HD is a lame duck" and THAT sequilitis issue... This isn't unique to Eurogamer mind you. I like the way the web is chanting "Epic backs Sony! UT demo blows us away!" despite the same engine running on the X360 as well (different state of the engine notwithstanding...). Do people really think Epic are going to deliver half-arsed ATi support? Considering that the engine is going to be used on PS3, X360 *and* PCs, I think if you're expecting great visual leaps between platforms, you're going to be mistaken.

    None of this is addressed in this rebuttal piece. Yeah OK, you don't think you're biased, great, I don't think you have an agenda. I do wonder if you've been shocked and awed into submission though.

  • Tweakmonkey #90 7 years ago

    arnieofdarkness - you are a tard. please take some tissues and dry your eyes

    deaner - excellent post. nice to see some mature gamers still exist here

    mox - i was agreeing with you until you said that the next-gen will be much closer than this gen. the truth is we don't know.

  • Wrobel #91 7 years ago

    So the videos showed might be real or not, according to Epic
    (whatever that's worth) they are at least achievable on the
    PS3

    And also acheivable on the 360 if you read in to what Epic are saying.

    At the end of the day people will be buying the games and not the tech demos

  • Yaz #92 7 years ago

    "Some months before launch, they discover Sony’s next-gen unit is three-times more impressive."

    Really? In what way exactly? The GPUs are of EQUAL power, and although the Cell processor has theoretically more power, EVERYONE knew that long before E3 (218GFlops vs 115GFlops to be exact). And how good is Sony's online strategy? We don't know much about it yet.

    Both are amazing machines, I can't wait for them, but not everyone who object to Eurogamer's comments are biased XBox owners. Many here feel Eurogamer have allowed themselves to be blinded by PR spin and CG footage, when it was hoped that here of all places would be free of such issues.

    Without the CG footage and PR spin on the RSX GPU (1.8TFlops yet still the same performance as the R500 GPU!), the PS3 would still be an incredibly impressive console, as seen in the realtime demos and Unreal engine. But it doesn't s*** all over XBox 360 as believed by those taken in so easily by CG footage and overall specs.

    So whilst Sony may have the upper hand in the PR wars, those expecting Killzone quality in realtime PS3 games may be in for a disappointment, especially when despite incredible graphics on the consoles, there isn't a clear distintion between the PS3 and XBox 360.

    We'll see what happens. ;)

    EDIT: Apologies for the formating (keeps happening whenever I edit my posts!).
    Edited by Yaz at 18/05/05 @ 11:42

  • phAge #93 7 years ago

    To the people reacting angrily towards the people calling Eurogamer "biased":

    WE AREN'T.

    Most of us anyway. Those of us who have frequented the site for some time, who have spoken to the people making EG (in the forums and IRL), and who know what Eurogamer stands for - we KNOW that the site isn't biased.

    However, there are a bunch of things that we find odd about the EG E3 coverage - things that we would like so see addressed in the articles - or at the very least mentioned. I've listed them before, but I'll do it again - maybe the lads will have a few minutes to look at them.

    1: There has been a LOT of talk that pretty much every Sony presentation has been pre-rendered. This does not include the tech-demos (leaves, rubberduck, UT3 engine). The Xbox 360 stuff, however, has most likely primarily been real, ingame, footage. And even if the PS3 tech-demos *were* very impressive, you don't have to be a massive geek to know how much of a difference there is between a tech-demo, and a real, playable game.

    2: The PS3 specs are still "subject to change and modification" = they are by no means final - the console is still almost a year out, and as such there is nothing stopping Sony from running their E3 presentations on a rig quite a bit more powerful than the finished PS3. In fact, theyd be stupid not to. The 360 specs are, OTOH pretty close to being final - and we'll have that console within 6 months, so MS can't alter the E3 specs too much.

    These discrepancies have not been pointed out, and as a result people are (IMO) getting a very skewed impression of the 2 machines.

    In other words, you are judging the Xbox 360 and the PS3 from the SAME standards - when this is clearly not the case. One is an almost complete console, running alpha-stage games demos, whereas the other is still pretty much the wet dream of senior Sony bosses. A dream that might very well (hopefully) come true - but still a dream.

    The problem most of us "fukking M$ fanb0iz" (which I'm not, BTW) have with the recent EG articles, is that the site is relaying the image of two consoles, at similar stages of development, running the same type of software - and then calling the winner. A bit like having Lennox Lewis beat the shit out of a 13 year-old boxing student, and then calling it a fair fight - because they're "both boxers".

    I'll end this tirade now, but let me just - once more - say that I DON'T think EG is biased. They've hammered Sony more times than I can recall, so for them to change their stance like this doesn't make any sense at all.

    I DO, however, think that they have been, er, misled - and rather than go on the defensive because of some lamers calling them "biased", they should rather go and look at some of the pretty valid and consistent criticisms there has been on this site, and then tell us what they think.

    Nothing wrong with getting excited, but once it has all died down, you should be able to take a step back and look at the whole thing a bit more critically.

    Especially when you're a games journo.

    Edited by phAge at 18/05/05 @ 11:38

  • deaner #94 7 years ago

    Mox,

    At this point, theoretical performance is all we have on the next-gen units. So it is all that we can measure.

    You have to keep in mind that the XBox' high-specs is for a lot of gamers, a reason to buy.

    The PlayStation has the larger and more diverse range of games, and has many more 'big titles' than the XBox.

    This puts Microsoft in a precarious situation. Their lead console really has nothing over Sony's anymore, and so may fail to achieve their sales objectives.

    NB. I'm not sure that your comment that the XBox360 and PS3 are 'closer' than the XBox and PS2 is entirely accurate.

    We're not here to talk about the consoles, we're here to talk about Eurogamer's (frankly high-quality) journalistic integrity.

  • tiddles #95 7 years ago

    EG - the "Ain't It Cool News" of gaming?

    Taxi for pinch of salt!!!

  • Putty-Man #96 7 years ago

    Fully respect your take on the PS3 v. XBox 360 , but I can't help but notice you guys seem to be put off by the MS showmanship and Hollywood approach. I agree, the OTT approach would put most European gamers off a bit.

    Its just the evidence of the 2 machines compared that seems to be in short supply. I've not heard of any be groundbreaking features the PS3 has of yet, while the 360 does seem to have some new stuff.

    I appreciate tho that you guys are actually there tho so are in a better place to comment.

    Keep up the good work and cheers for all the articles.

  • JimboUK #97 7 years ago

    arnieofdarkness: "ha! a damn fine job my arse. this site is bullshit, the journalism is bullshit, and you are bullshit. it just confirmed what i thought for a long time, eurogamer talk arse."

    You thought this for a long time, and stayed, despite the whole site being bullshit? You're the arse, mate.

    phAge, you have valid questions and concerns, and say them in a rational manner. Sadly, you are very much in the minority - most of the others who disagree are screaming bias from the rooftops. What you are doing is taking issue with some parts of the article, which is fine, and discussing them normally. I just wish the others would follow your example.

  • Tiiti #98 7 years ago

    we can comfortably say that there was a heck of a lot of stuff going on in real time at the Sony conference. You can't pause computer-generated pre-rendered imagery and rotate around the objects using a control pad.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Epic game the only one they showed in real time by doing this?

  • Yaz #99 7 years ago

    "I DO, however, think that they have been, er, misled - and rather than go on the defensive because of some lamers calling them "biased", they should rather go and look at some of the pretty valid and consistent criticisms there has been on this site, and then tell us what they think."

    EXACTLY! Well said. :D

  • deaner #100 7 years ago

    phAge,

    To address your points (Eurogamer should have me on the payroll)...

    Eurogamer can only report and comment on the information released by Sony and Microsoft.

    That information displays that the Sony machine is higher-spec than the Microsoft machine. And although Sony mention that these specs may be subject to change, it is unlikely this will include any 'downgrading'.

    You're also downplaying the importance of technology demo's. Although many of Sony's may have been pre-rendered, they will have been done so to show off the machines capabilities. During the shelf-life of the platform, many games will come to surpass the early demonstrations.

    I'm not defending Sony, I just think you may be misinterpreting Eurogamer, and not taking all of the factors into consideration.

    I will be buying an XBox360 at Christmas.

  • pinhead #101 7 years ago

    New console releases will always have fanboy backlash with whatever comments you make. I personally think enjoy some of the Nintendo software but know that it will be a 2nd console forever more. I am looking forwards to both 360 and PS3 but will not jump in with the early adopters and will wait to see what:

    a) software is like
    b) internet service is like
    c) overall package benefits

    Then make my choice based on that.

    I rely on sites like this to put over what they are seeing coming from E3 and it is great that I don't have to rely on the US based sites which are all far too yahoo for my tastes.

    Thanks Eurogamer. You are doing a great job. I will be returning to the site for years to come.

  • quantumsheep #102 7 years ago

    I'm going for all three consoles (hopefully) as I did with the current generation.

    I think it's very easy to get carried away by the tech demos. Watching the Killzone vid my imagination goes into overdrive and I can't help but think that there's a lot of promise there and that I should keep my fingers crossed for it to turn out just like that...

    Then I remember 'The Bouncer'.

    I'm going to get a sore arse sitting on the fence, as I can see why people are upset but I can also see why EG staff are getting upset a bit too.

    What I will say is that it's not just newcomers or 'tards' that are taking issue with the coverage, but a fair few regulars too.

    And I'm too tired (thankfully) to say anything else - great fun reading up on all the new stuff though - very excited, but the really exciting stuff is still to come - the games themselves ;)
    Edited by quantumsheep at 18/05/05 @ 12:05

  • w00t #103 7 years ago

    Snippet of information, make of it what you will:
    The Killzone 2 demo was pre-rendered - from the developer on dev boards.

  • Mox #104 7 years ago

    "I'm not sure that your comment that the XBox360 and PS3 are 'closer' than the XBox and PS2 is entirely accurate."

    Well, it's not carved in stone, but it's clear that the Xbox is quite clearly superior to the PS2 in many measurements. The only one I know it to fall short on is pixel fill rate, which does allow PS2 to catch up in some more generalised situations. The published specs for X360 and PS3 really are quite close and depend on intricacies of the final implementation we can't measure until we have real-part dev kits on our desks.

    The only part I'm unsure of is exactly what graphics hardware nVidia have slipped in to PS3. I am guessing it is the equivalent of an SLI-pair of 6800s with a particularly favourable memory interface, justifying the claim that it's "more than twice as powerful as the top-end PC graphics card of today" - but in that case the ATi part in X360 should be able to close that gap reasonably well. I *guess* that it compares to the RSX as the X360s cpu trio compares to the cell - i.e., about 80% on paper. And in my experience you can usually only draw on around 25%-50% of peak theoretical performance in a game, depending on how much you are prepared to sacrifice on the altar of performance. See that variance? That can wipe out any difference in the on-paper performance.

    Which is why I say it's too early to call winners on the tech specs.

    Regardless, it's the installed user base that decides which platform wins. Historically, that hasn't really been influenced as much by technical gimmickry as presentational skills. Hence, yes, Sony 1 Microsoft 0. Eurogamer's reaction justifies that as clearly as anything else. It's just important to realise what it is they've won - they have sold their platform to people. It's not about being "better" it's about being perceived to be "better."

  • Henrik #105 7 years ago

    Boo-hoo, poor Microsoft is mistreated by the media!

    It's threads like these that make me lose faith in democracy. Idiots scrambling to defent a multi-billion dollar corporation.
    Edited by Henrik at 18/05/05 @ 12:53

  • phAge #106 7 years ago

    "It's threads like these that make me lose
    faith in democracy. Idiots scrambling to defent a
    multi-billion dollar corporation".

    And its posts like this that makes ME lose faith in democracy. Idiots not willing to accept every persons right to say what he/she wants, without being called an idiot.

    Ironic, innit?

  • El_MUERkO #107 7 years ago

    This post has to get the record for longest 'readers comments' responses.

    My opinion is that of Eurogamers, having read everything I could about the XBox360 and the PS3. The PS3 is more impressive by a long way, the feature set is better the Cell is faster and Nvidia have given them more graphical bang for their buck (this from a rabid ATI fanboi).

    I paid zero attention to microsofts viral add campaign just like I do any other campaign where some marketing twat used the words hype, street cred or underground.

    I look at Sonys console history of the PS, PS2 and PSP and I see a pattern of success and far more importantly great games.

    The 360 isnt dead and buried but I'm going to preorder a PS3.

    Eurogamer has always been about the writers point of view not some attempt at being unbiased and fair in the review/preview/news and long may that continue.

  • marilena #108 7 years ago

    Errr... Sony is also a multi-billion dollar company.

  • Dazrimm #109 7 years ago

    Please continue to speak your minds. You're at E3, we're
    not.
    To think that some readers believe you're not entitled
    to your own opinions as journalists is so wrong imho. Say what it is and,
    how it is. please.

    Keep going with the great coverage.

    Xbox 360,PS3, and revolution with the GB micro. (aw aint it cute my missus wants one) :-)
    All new stuff nobody knew about before the 12th of May, and the all nighter I did along side some of you.
    (need more of this imho EG) ( it was a blast wasn't it?) :-)
    Bias? I dont think so not even close to, you can tell a mile off it's written by excited people imo.

  • MikeD #110 7 years ago

    Nvidia have given them more graphical bang for
    their buck (this from a rabid ATI fanboi).

    They have the same ram, around the same pipeline specs, the same features. We don't know wnything about the speed difference between them. Hell, the ati chip should ahve an advantage with the NEC ram. I'm afraid we don't know much about who's faster, graphics wise. Don't listen to flops. :-)

  • Peekaboo #111 7 years ago

    This is all too funny.........Bunch of guys that love games experience something that makes them sit up and go "ooooooo" and genuinely gives them hope for their hobby and it's future and all the that the people, sat at home not there, not experiencing it, can do is be cynical/critical to an obsessive level........."I expect better from EG" lol !!! EG has always been about these guys and their opinions, christ look at the "Halo only an 8 !!!" outcry...........

    Seriously, there are bigger issues in the world to get rabid about than whether or not some blokes writing about video games have sold out. On another point though, some of the vitriol and abuse directed towards them and their integrity is well out of line. Grow up.

    /Wanders back into the desert to his Net isolated retreat..........

  • Yaz #112 7 years ago

    *******
    Edited by Yaz at 18/05/05 @ 13:33

  • Yaz #113 7 years ago

    "Nvidia have given them more graphical bang for their buck."

    No they haven't. The GPUs are about the same (or atleast too close to notice a difference). BOTH GPUs have been rated to be a little more powerful than two nVidia 6800s! It you read the PS3 GPU specs, you could easily be fooled into thinking it's more, but by Sony's own admission, it's two 6800s.

    The RSX seems to take a more brute force approach based upon current technology (it's like two of my 6800's on one chip), whereas ATI's GPU is based on tomorrow's technology with
    it's unified shader architecture and embedded ram.

    As said already, don't be fooled by Flops.

    EDIT: I notice the formatting gets really messed up for edited posts!
    Edited by Yaz at 18/05/05 @ 13:47

  • moggsy #114 7 years ago

    I've just read the top few comments from the people STILL insisting that EG are biased and I can't be arsed to read anymore. Did any of you actually read this article or just the headline?

    Keep up the good work EG. Your E3 articles have been extremely enjoyable so far.

  • Yaz #115 7 years ago

    ^^^ Well may I suggest you read phAge's posts above. :|

  • glaeken #116 7 years ago

    Well coming from someone who has never owned a console I think my opinion is unbiased on all this. In my view EG basically applied a higher level of skepticism to MS then they did Sony in the articles of the last couple of days. In fact they appear to have forgotten what skepticism was when it came to the Sony coverage. That is bias.

    It is pretty clear EG screwed up as the comments threads clearly show. The only ones appearing to back EG seem to be Sony fan boys which says a lot.

  • tompagenet #117 7 years ago

    Damn straight Eurogamer - your article says it all. What's the point in reading opinion pieces on the site if you don't want someone's opinion? You've had the best E3 coverage - not in terms of quantity, but in the quality of the writing and the looking beneath the sheen that so many of your competitors don't bother with.

    Tom

  • ali-uk #118 7 years ago

    I applaud this article. I've never called you biased, you've done exactly what I have done - formed a personal opinion. And you've delivered more than your fair share of facts and news.

    Therefore, you rule. Keep it up.

  • teabagger #119 7 years ago

    "In my view EG basically applied a higher level of skepticism to MS then they did Sony in the articles of the last couple of days..."

    Yes but not through bias, it was because Sony had a much tighter presentation with a lot more to show, thereby coming across as the initial stronger contender. If both presentations were identical but EG reported one as being better THEN it would have been bias, but clearly they were not identical.
    Edited by teabagger at 18/05/05 @ 13:51

  • Eighthours #120 7 years ago

    As Tom says "it
    would be catastrophically moronic of Sony to fake that kind
    of presentation".

    Not at all. Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted makes bugger-all difference. It would be like a tabloid newspaper printing a retraction on page 17 of Friday's paper, a few days after their "world exclusive" Page 1 splash about David Beckham's love life. They've got the publicity already, they've set the agenda.

    Let's not forget those Getaway renders back in 2000, and the presentation of "realtime FFVIII FMV". Or even the "Toy Story" claims. Sony have a history of this kind of thing, and it certainly didn't hurt them last time out.

    You really do seem to be sticking your heads in the sand a bit over this, which is disappointing as I rarely disagree with your site, and if I do your opinions are usually well argued enough for me to consider your arguments (there was that FIFA Street review, of course!).

    But this just seems like a mistake which you refuse to acknowledge. It's an open secret that the Killzone footage isn't real. Why don't you simply admit you made a mistake and move on? The employee from Epic said there were only 2 realtime vids, yet you don't seem to have factored this into your response. This article smacks to me of self-indulgent mild panic while sticking your fingers in your ears.

    The reason people are "outraged" is because of the inconsistencies many posters in this thread have picked up on, and because nowhere in your PS3 articles did you even consider the fact that what you were seeing wasn't ingame footage. To put not too fine a point on it, it was pretty obvious to a lot of us.

    Just to outline my credentials, I've got all 3 current gen consoles and fully intend to get the new ones. I'm just worried about the way you presented the evidence, and I'm sure it was just a one-off. But to continually deny that mistakes were made isn't going to help...
    Edited by Eighthours at 18/05/05 @ 13:55

  • teabagger #121 7 years ago

    But there were enough stunning real-time displays (or captures from game engines) to suggest that the rendered 'visions' were achieveable. With that in mind we can't completely discount rendered visuals as worthless.

  • Feanor #122 7 years ago

    Yawn, what a pack of sheep some of you are. Most of the people complaining are like phAge and pjmaybe - non-fanboys, regulars, and people that are genuinely confused over how bad the E3 coverage has been. We're not screaming bias, we're just saying WTF?

    Eurogamer are entitled to their opinions, but if they base their opinion of the PS3 on a bunch of prerendered videos then sane people won't take much notice of that opinion. If MS had gotten Pixar or ILM to make an amazing prerendered movie of Halo 3 that looked better than the Killzone movie Sony showed, I would expect Eurogamer to point out it was CG, not yell that the Xbox 360 was more powerful than the PS3.
    Edited by Feanor at 18/05/05 @ 14:07

  • Captain Jax #123 7 years ago

    Oooooh ha hoooo ha hooooo.

  • Machina #124 7 years ago

    I stopped reading GameSpot a couple of years ago because you knew what you were going to get; you could practically predict the score that they gave a game in advance. Thank god that those who write for Eurogamer DO have an opinion. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it. And I don't think that it was some sort of pre-formed bias towards either machine; that it was settled upon before even going to E3 based on some pathetic hatred of MS or Sony. Come on people, grow up.

    EG seems to have gone to both press conferences, made (appropriate) fun of over-zealous American media-hype, and then judged each console appropriately on merit. Nothing wrong with that at all.

  • groovychainsaw #125 7 years ago

    I don't think it is biased to say that you prefer one machine over another - merely stating a preference
    Here's a fun dictionary definition for those of you who yell bias!
    bi·as ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs)
    n.

    A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
    An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.

    (I deleted the reference to electrodes or cutting cloth here, but you get the idea)
    The suggestion that liking something is impartial is ridiculous, and I, fot one, find Eurogamer's coverage to be fair and interesting reading so far (its all about the games, anyway ;-)

  • Feanor #126 7 years ago

    On merit? How slow are you? They judged the PS3 based almost entirely on CG footage created by animators. Just look at how excited they got over the Motor Storm and Killzone movies. The real-time demo of the Unreal 3 engine didn't look any better than the Unreal 3 engine on the Xbox 360.

  • meggsy #127 7 years ago

    " Boo-hoo, poor Microsoft is mistreated by the
    media!

    It's threads like these that make me lose
    faith in democracy. Idiots scrambling to defent a
    multi-billion dollar corporation. "

    ...well Sony isn't quite the cottage industry either in the grand scheme of things :p

    The way I see it, Xbox360 is unlikely to increase Microsofts share of the home-console market, maybe even losing some to Sony. The 360 is being pushed out a bit too soon I fear, consumers will compare the leap between the xbox and 360 with the PS2 and PS3 and choose whichever seems to be the real next-gen system.

    Shame really, if they were more evenly matched and divided the market, there could be a bit of interesting competition, and everyone loves those huge reductions to push the console sales.

    I'm still in love with the way Nintendo makes it's games so the Revolution will be my first of the new-gen, followed either by a PS3 or a by-then-bargain-priced original xbox to catch up on the good games, ie forza, oddworld etc.

  • Tweakmonkey #128 7 years ago

    Most of the people complaining are like phAge and pjmaybe - non fanboys, regulars

    I beg to differ. This site has been inundated with tards recently.

  • phAge #129 7 years ago

    Good point there, Feanor. IMO, the Gears of War demo looked just as lovely as the PS3 UT Demo. And - once again - the GoW demos was from a REAL game, running on REAL (alpha-stage) hardware, whereas the PS3 Demo was just that - a tech demo. Running on something that might or might not be final PS3 hardware.

  • Henrik #130 7 years ago

    Seems the Eurogamer reaction is not unique. From Wired News: "Sony's console looked like a next-generation game machine and in comparison to the graphics of the PS3, Microsoft's looked like Xbox 1.5," said Takashi Oya, analyst at Deutsche Bank.

    http://www.wired.com/news/e3/0,2879,67555,00.html
    Edited by Henrik at 18/05/05 @ 14:21

  • Polymath #131 7 years ago

    Eurogamer -
    I'll definitely still be reading this site. I can't imagine being on any other forum. The number of mature readers and posters that frequent these boards make for interesting and thought provoking discussion.
    I will say that I was disturbed at the headlines and opinions that, to a casual observer, would be taken as "fact". Again, editorials have their place -- but I would argue that much of what you'd written on E3 were editorials. Whether you bash Nintendo, MS, or Sony, it ends up sounding more like a tabloid or a blog, rather than the journalism that I've come to expect here.
    Again, I don't think you're "in Sony's pocket" so much as you're perhaps a tad over-excited.
    I believe I too have read that the only in game demo was Unreal Engine.

    Again, analytically, I'm impressed by how well Sony has stolen all of MS's thunder. Before PS3 demo'd, everyone was talking about MS's product. Sony has ever been better at packaging and presentation. I can't remember a single MS product ever being "cool." I can't remember a single MS presentation being cool. Sony is a media company... electronics, movies, music, games. Sony's counterpunch in PR hit MS squarely. I doubt they can reduce MS's product's future to that of Dreamcast, but I know that's the aim. ;)

    In short, have an opinion. Shout it out. But make sure you do what every other newsrag does with opinion pieces. Make sure it's clear that they're opinions. While most of us can figure out what's what, I daresay many cannot.

  • phAge #132 7 years ago

    Yes. Apparently lot of people got pulled in.

  • Polymath #133 7 years ago

    Henrik -
    He'd get the same lambasting from me... :)

  • Ryu #134 7 years ago

    In trying to buck the trend of people posting very long comments (please use the forums instead of posting here), I'm gonna keep it short-ish.

    I applaud EG for facing up to the criticism rather than ignoring it.

    I have always viewed EG as the bbc.co.uk/news of the gaming world, the beeb's website I regard as one of the finest news websites in existence; A place of well-written and informative journalism, which always provide readers with up-to-date news and articles, whilst allowing them to form ideas and opinions of their own.

    However, when the articles, carried away by the excitement, start taking a distorted slant towards either side of neutral, there is a danger of the article no longer allowing readers to form their own opinion, but instead imposing itself upon them.

    This will generally provoke a reaction from readers. If the beeb's site starting giving it's own opinions on it's articles, i'm sure there would be an outcry.

    I hope EG see where we are coming from, and perhaps take heed in future.

    EDIT: It wasn't actually that short :/
    Edited by Ryu at 18/05/05 @ 14:31

  • Henrik #135 7 years ago

    ...well Sony isn't quite the cottage industry either in the
    grand scheme of things :p

    Well, obviously.
    It's fascinating how people react when things don't pan out like they wished and they try to even it out somehow, I think psychologists call it "cognitive dissonance".
    If Nintendo Revolution turns out to be 5x as powerful as the PS3 and handed out free on every street corner, you'd still get some brainwashed tard going "Yeah, whatever, it doesn't have Gran Turismo" or "Benchmarks don't prove anything".

  • phAge #136 7 years ago

    So basically, well-founded skepticism = brainwashed tard?

    Great.

    So what does optimism in the face of overwhelming evidence equal?

  • Machina #137 7 years ago

    That's strange, Eurogamer has never struck me as being the equivalent of the BBC news website (a site that prides itself on objectivity and neutrality). EG has always seemed to be the place that has an interesting (and often argument-provoking) opinion on things - software, hardware, gaming in general - and that, more than anything, is why it is a worthwhile read.

    And Feanor, even though I am slow, I do stand by my comment that EG judged the consoles on merit. It just happens that the criteria that they chose for this judgement do not align with your own - nothing wrong with that.

  • Tyronne #138 7 years ago

    Honestly couldnt give two hoots either way as no doubt I will end up buying all three at some stage and then tire very very quickly of people going on about how they are better simply because they have one machine that someone else does not.Had to suffer this simpleton behaviour since the days of the speccy vs c64 and very little has changed once you boil down the arguments to my consoles/computer is better than yours simply because I own it and you dont but you have the other one which makes you a retard.

  • Tweakmonkey #139 7 years ago

    It's fascinating how people react when things don't pan out like they wished and they try to even it out somehow, I think psychologists call it "cognitive dissonance".

    I'd say you're right Henrik.

  • Yaz #140 7 years ago

    One thing to consider is that whilst Sony are clearly winning the current PR battle, it could just as easily backfire later. Those who were so easily fooled by the CG movies at E3 may later feel disappointment when they finally get to see the SAME games running in realtime on the PS3, even if the graphics are incredible by today's standards. :| They may also find themselves trying to explain why there doesn't seem to be much graphical difference (if any) between PS3 and XBox 360 games.

    Also, I'm sure if it were MS who filled their conference with CG movies of games like Halo 3 and PDZ, the outcry would have been HUGE everywhere, with some gamers saying things like "See, that's why I hate MS, they cheat, they lie, they bought their way into the games market, and now they pull a stunt like this, typical, I hate them and that's why I would NEVER EVER buy a MS console, blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda".

    Afterall, look at the huge fuss made over the few XBox Amped screenshots back in 2001 (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/092/092476p1.html). Many gamers didn't let up on MS for months, even years later, accusing them of deliberately lying, cheating or worse.

    I'm as excited over the next gen consoles as anyone, but I do feel some are setting themselves up for disappointment.

    We'll see I guess.

  • Captain Jax #141 7 years ago

    Guess what, Motorstorm was pre-rendered too!

  • Henrik #142 7 years ago

    Polymath - Yeah, thought so. :-)

    I agree that the opinon pieces should be clearly labeled as such. When it comes to presentations and spotting prerendered graphics some of you seem to think that the Eurogamer staff consists entirely of easily impressed giggeling school girls, I'd find that really offensive if I was a jaded crusty old game journo. :-)

  • Polymath #143 7 years ago

    Henrik -

    Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation.

    http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm

    Studied it in medschool.

    Probably somewhat applies to the situation. But, arguably, only to some of those responding to the "articles". I'm very used to the XBOX being "trashed." :) The nature of this "bashing" was not in line with other bashing that has taken place in EG's articles.

    I probably wouldn't have reacted had the title been. "Sony's Presentation decapitates XBOX 360 media presence." or even "Sony Eviscerates MS with demo extravaganza. How about, "Sony wins the first battle for the hearts and minds of gamers."

    In review of many media outlets, I would conclude that that had actually happened. To say the PS3 is "the real next generation" is very strange to me, for all the reasons above and elsewhere.

  • Henrik #144 7 years ago

    So basically, well-founded skepticism = brainwashed tard?

    Well, Nintendo hasn't announced such a console and you haven't spoken out against it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :-)

  • Eighthours #145 7 years ago

    Just an example of the seeming "bias" here....

    Project Gotham Racing 3: Could be brilliant, but the footage looked suspiciously cut together from renders. Let's hope E3 shows some more solid evidence. A cautionary word tells us that Gotham 2 didn't set the charts on fire like it should have. Will this one?

    Renders.... Bizarre have never ever produced a rendered video. And yet not a word about the Killzone footage? Come on guys!!! This is why people are getting annoyed!

  • spillz #146 7 years ago

    this one's a pisser - had to share:

    http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614750p1.html
    Edited by spillz at 18/05/05 @ 15:10

  • MartinJ #147 7 years ago

    Keep up the good work on saying what you think, I am tired of the machine typed review sites that forget to add those odd funy comments or read as if they were from the back of the game you were buying.

  • Henrik #148 7 years ago

    Polymath - I agree. At this stage everything is just marketing and MS only lost the first round of this insane multi-million dollar game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

  • Cubfan #149 7 years ago

    The E3 coverage on this site was bad, plain and simple. Opinions are opinions, by definition they are going to vary from person to person. But on this site I expect an 'informed' opinion, you people are supposed to be near experts on gaming. Your statements should be backed by facts and information, and in this case you dropped the ball. You bought into one company's hype, and rebuked another company for more or less doing the same thing.

    I suppose in the end you all don't give a shit though, I'm sure your traffic spiked like the dickens. And then you can go on defending yourself and your 'opinions'. If I just wanted an 'opinion', there's a million fansites that I could spend all day browsing. But your opinion is supposed to be informed, 'objective' in way- based on the facts. You screwed up, plain and simple.

  • Feanor #150 7 years ago

    "Most of the people complaining are like phAge and pjmaybe
    - non fanboys, regulars

    I beg to differ. This site has been inundated with tards
    recently."

    Well, maybe. I'm not going to go thru every post critical of EG's coverage and work out which ones are obviously Xbox fanboys and which ones aren't. But if you've spent any time at EG you'll know that someone like pjmaybe is as regular as a bran muffin, and no more an Xbox fanboy than he is a rubber ducky.

    "And Feanor, even though I am slow, I do stand by my comment
    that EG judged the consoles on merit. It just happens that
    the criteria that they chose for this judgement do not align
    with your own - nothing wrong with that."

    Come on. You can't judge a console based almost solely on prerendered videos. They may as well judge the PS3 to be better based on the letter P appearing before the letter X in the Engligh alphabet. And no, that wouldn't match my criteria either, and it would also be plain wrong.

    BTW, I will definitely be getting a PS3 and I own far more PS2 games than I own Xbox or GC games.
    Edited by Feanor at 18/05/05 @ 15:29

  • sickpuppysoftware #151 7 years ago

    PS3 had the best in game motorbikes? I'm right aren't I?

  • Yossarian #152 7 years ago

    Eighthours's lengthy post somewhere above this one is absolutely spot-on.

  • bivith #153 7 years ago

    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1816966,00.asp

    Much more objective look at the PS3 press conference. This is how it should be.




    feck it. can't get it to link.
    Edited by bivith at 18/05/05 @ 17:01

  • reto #154 7 years ago

    I enjoy Eurogamer usually but your take on the Killzone video was embarrassing. We will not see games like that within the next five years, close maybe, but not as good.
    Edited by reto at 18/05/05 @ 17:00

  • Rusta #155 7 years ago

    Bill Gates told me he's gonna get eurogamer for this

  • Putty-Man #156 7 years ago

    Nice article bivith..
    'If anything was disappointing about the PlayStation 3 press conference, it was the lack of real substance. There wasn't a single real playable game visible. '

    Some of it seems in stark contrast to whats been written here, tho not due to anti MS bias, more anti hype bias i would suspect.

  • Tellute #157 7 years ago

    Ok, I think I was one of the people that actually used the word "biased". As many people have pointed out who wouldn't get a bit carried away if you're in LA during this.

    Many posters here (especially Kiigan and PhAge) have voiced our concerns in a well thought and logical manner.

    And we're all still here.

    Lets move on.

  • Dan L #158 7 years ago

    Penny Arcade, curiously prophetic once again :

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-02-12&res=l

    Anyone aligning themselves to the point of taking offense at others opinions on as-yet-to-be-released consoles are taking their games *way* too seriously.
    Edited by Dan L at 18/05/05 @ 17:37

  • Teeth #159 7 years ago

    sickpuppysoftware: LOL

  • mustardkid #160 7 years ago




    Edited by mustardkid at 18/05/05 @ 17:49

  • Les #161 7 years ago

    Really funny, all those comments. I don't think Eurogamer is biased at all and anyone accusing Sony of too much “hype” has clearly not watched their presentation, which was quite boring. The PS3 unveiling was all about the hardware and games that will ship for the machine. Sony has a very clear proposition: it wants to provide the entertainment hub of choice and has made sure the PS3 is up to this task. This is exactly what M$ has been afraid of all along and the reason they went into the console business in the first place. Don't be fooled into thinking M$ cares about gaming. They foresaw that the PlayStation would replace the PC as the Internet gateway in the long run and that it wouldn't run on M$ software. So they came up with the Xbox and they failed and now they fail again.

    M$'s unveiling was a big bullshit show, but what else can you expect from Americans, they love show. Form over substance is the national slogan. Eurogamer reported this the way it was. If you don't like it, go read an American games site.
    Edited by Les at 18/05/05 @ 18:52

  • Scimarad #162 7 years ago

    All I'll say is this - After the Xbox360 was revealed I was impressed and I wanted one (still do!) but the PS3 'launch' actually made me excited about the next generation. Something Microsoft should really have done.

  • Polymath #163 7 years ago

    Les -
    I'm an American citizen, and I value function far over form. Believe you me, there are many others on this side of the Atlantic that feel the same way. More to the point, I'd prefer a true marriage of form and function. :)

    As for good reviews: I think the earlier link to extremetech.com is a good example of technical journalism. Perhaps that's the problem, we were expecting a technical hardware review, whereas eurogamer normally reviews games, which incidentally are probably much better assessed holistically rather than on the basis of dot products, flops and Gbps bandwidth.

  • asphaltcowboy #164 7 years ago

    I've been pretty disappointed with the E3 coverage from EG... so much so, I'm desperate to find something else to read (have to avoid doing my programming project somehow). Hope it picks up soon.

    phAge & Kiigan for King!

  • belziah #165 7 years ago

    all we've been shown over the last two day days is that whatever console you favour we're all cheap graphics whores.

  • darkmistx #166 7 years ago

    "Bill Gates told me he's gonna get eurogamer for this "

    Yeah, I heard he was going to buy them out.

  • belziah #167 7 years ago

    polymath

    while many interesting point were raised in that article, to call it a technical review, to call it a technical review, is plain stupid. He made several errors and as the final specs are still to be decided on both machine I'll be waiting for them all to be released before I look for a "technical" review

  • Polymath #168 7 years ago

    Belziah
    My point was rather that the extremetech article focused on the lack of comparable information. In truth, they really didn't make any conclusions to my reading. Maybe I need to reread the article. :)

    Technical articles comparing hardware "specs" require testing, so that sort of writing (IMO) has to be more circumspect. Thus, like a tech site focusing on the specifications, they witheld judgment due to lack of available data.
    Edited by Polymath at 18/05/05 @ 19:36

  • belziah #169 7 years ago

    I say roll on the games.

    If you're looking for real bias check out C+VG. Apparently only 2 consoles have been announced
    Edited by belziah at 18/05/05 @ 19:55

  • permute #170 7 years ago


    To come to such a stark conclusion, even before E3 begins. To remove your Most Offending Article.

    On the balcony, away from the madding crowd. I can hear the whispers starting again.

    "The hardware doesn't exist yet."
    "They did the same thing for ps2, the very same thing."

    The confusion is building. To turn to a site of erstwhile integrity in the wake of the print media. Who would not offer their busom to the gold-clad stranger?

  • Killerbee #171 7 years ago

    Well said Tom.

    To repeat a comment I posted on the Forum:

    Personally I thought Tom's reply was pretty much spot on. The EG guys are reporting about their thoughts and very early first impressions of a trio of new consoles no one has yet been able to actually play - nor will they for a good few months yet.

    So the only thing to go on is the demo footage that we've been shown. Whether things are pre-rendered or not (and I think they jury is still out on a fair bit of that argument), the Sony unveiling obviously made a much better impression than Microsoft's to the chaps out there. And it isn't just EG who have formed that opinion - other online games sites have too.

    What infuriates me more are those sites who refuse to come off the fence on this and seem intent on just regurgitating press releases and tech specs at us in an effort to whip up enthusiasm. Frankly, I find that approach dull.

    In actually giving a view, EG has sparked a debate amongst readers of the site as to which is best; which is most likely to find a spot under your telly first; who's got the best games and all that sort of thing.

    Isn't that what most of us come here for?

  • mad_caddy #172 7 years ago

    Edited by mad_caddy at 19/05/05 @ 10:04

  • ender #173 7 years ago

    Great articles. It´s nice to see that you dare to have (and write) a personal opinion about PS3 and 360. Instead of the usual b*tlicking of both sides. Keep up the good work!

  • Pina Verified Producer, Seed Studios, Lda. #174 7 years ago

    Maybe future biased opinions should start with something explaining what is a biased opinion?

  • smelly #175 7 years ago

    "arnieofdarkness" .. I'd advise you to run away and go play with yourself while telling yourself how great your xbox is, while the rest of us look forward to great games on ALL the new systems.

    Revolution in particular!!! YAY! Cant wait!

  • IronGiant #176 7 years ago

    Somewhere along the way in all this constant bickering something has been forgotten.. it's how the games play that really matters not how they look. If Killzone only provides half that detail but all the thrills of the video then i'm all over it. Same with Motorstorm and Gears of War on XBox360. Sod who showed the best videos, that only really matters to the respective marketing teams. EG have got themselves in a lather over what Sony presented, so what, at the end of the day we will be the final judge when these games are finished and in our grubby mitts.

  • FLCL #177 7 years ago

    Thank you Eurogamer!! THANK YOU for defending our gaming against the CNN/MTV/BUSH-lets-lead-the-sheep-tides!!!

    honestly the gaming scene is turning into a sad sad hollywood-esque BS

  • Lothar Hex #178 7 years ago

    I think what got everybody wound up was that it seemed that EG was implying, if not out right saying, the the PS3 has won the next generation war already. Again this is based on early impressions and spur of the moment reactions. And thefact that there were no less than 3, maybe more articles all saying the say pro-Sony stuff made everybody go "hang on".

    Perhaps if people had realised, or EG made it more clear that this was simply, for lack of a better term, "knee-jerk" reactions to the presentations, and not the hardware itself it would have made things a lot smoother.

    Knowing most of the people here they'll probably buy both the 360 and the PS3 anyway.
    Edited by Lothar Hex at 19/05/05 @ 11:35

  • FLCL #179 7 years ago

    Lothar Hex why? why do we need to pamper those who are being Brand-Blind (patriotic even!!) by being conservative as you suggest? they never do the same.. its easy to imagine the reaction if it was the other way around, if the x360 unvailing wiped the floor with "shock and awe" all the web would have crusified the PS3!!! hell even now look at gamespy's THREE opinions and tell us who's being objective

    i think the MTV showing, the colony and the E3 show were a pure insult to the industry not because of the x360 hardware itself which is undeniably impressive but because MS couldnt be any more patronizing


    im worried, what world MS marekting teams are driving us to!!! MS simply chose to bypass the professional press what do they have to hide?!
    Edited by FLCL at 19/05/05 @ 11:50

  • MoFo #180 7 years ago

    I've been pretty disappointed with the E3 coverage from EG... so much so, I'm desperate to find something else to read

    So go to any of the hundreds of clone gaming sites that offer bland fact based reviews of E3 rather than the exciting informative reviews we get here.

    I'm honestly surprised at the people's comments here. The way a lot of you are descirbing how EG should be covering E3 is the complete opposite of what makes this place so unique. They try to offer their heartfelt opion on whatever topic they're discussing/reviewing as opposed to purely pumping you full of facts and figures. Is that what you guys really want? If so you're in at the wrong website.
    Edited by MoFo at 19/05/05 @ 12:14

  • mad_caddy #181 7 years ago

    I dont think ms are bypassing the professional press i think they are simply trying to appeal to the mtv generation that bought the ps2 and will inevitably by the ps3 based on what thye've already seen and what they think thye'll see when they fire up a ps3.

    I think MS have been a bit more honest with what the new system is capable of, Sony have done it before and whats to say they cant do it again with the ps3, they lied about the ps2 capabilities.

    am i the only one that's enjoying the revolution stuff more?
    "we arent going to compete with them, we've burned ourselves before on that one so lets do what we want to do." focussing on themselves not on competitiors, could pay off for them.

  • MoFo #182 7 years ago

    By the way, anyone else notice that in the whole PS3 press conf when they supposedly demoed a game they were using a PS2 pad as opposed to a wireless PS3 pad? Strike anyone else as odd?

  • Lothar Hex #183 7 years ago

    FLCL: Its pretty much what happened with the PS2.

  • MoFo #184 7 years ago

    another comment while I'm on a roll...

    Something to think about: If you were demoing a major piece of gaming hardware for the first time to the world, would you really want to risk showing a game playing in real-time? Seems far more sensible to show game footage or renders. This goes for all the major brands.

  • IronGiant #185 7 years ago

    It's all a game called marketing. Every large corporation plays the game, the idea that MS are somehow an honest company who dont bullshit people is farcical.

    Everyone has a choice, you watch the vids and make your own mind up. EG can write whatever the hell they like, if you don't like it just use your choice and go read other sites instead.

  • Kami #186 7 years ago

    What I found really unprofessional was the "Nintendo concedes defeat" comment. THAT is what made me think there was a clear EG bias, with EFG slating two consoles and backing PS3, you can't blame people from wondering what the heck was going on!

    I watched all three conferences. I'll get all three systems. But EG shouldn't have made such bold, sweeping and very unjustifiable comments when they have no actual evidence or quotes to back up.

    And the lack of Nintendo (and that comment) in this article makes me feel... again, a little puzzled and worried. You're saying "We aren't biased!", and I know deep down you're not, I'm sorry for saying that before. But right now, you're still dancing around the issue, saying you're not biased but not actually admitting that the reporting has been a little more skewed than it should have been.

    Can't you at least accept that you made a couple of mistakes so we can put this all to rest?

  • IronGiant #187 7 years ago

    Why should they? IF they geniunely believe they haven't made any mistakes or been biased then they have no reason to admit or apologise for anything. Tom's article spells out exactly how they feel, if you disagree then that's upto you but to constantly go on and on about it is getting more than a little tiresome.

    I couldn't give a shit either way, it's still a long time before i'll get a chance to play on these machines and a lot can happen in that time.

  • thegamesthething #188 7 years ago

    If you couldnt give a shit either way IG, stop reading, just as you advise others to.

    If EG present opinions but then completely ignore criticisms of those opinions, and instead just cry about being accused of bias, then the criticisms will continue. There was a lot of unnecessary mud-slinging following the articles, but also a lots of fair points, all of which have been repeated above, and none of which have yet been addressed.

    Fine, EG arent obliged to address these, but then again no-one else is obliged to believe that EG shouldnt infact be retitled SonyGamer.net

  • dokodemo #189 7 years ago

    "Eurogamer says PS3 rules on the basis of seeing no actual games!!11!!111!!"

  • thegamesthething #190 7 years ago

    or an actual PS3 for that matter

  • marilena #191 7 years ago

    Man, I wish the comment section would break again. I'm soo tired of this.

  • thegamesthething #192 7 years ago

    man sits watching football all day, man says 'god football is boring' - man is a dick?

  • Putty-Man #193 7 years ago

    Comparison tables look very similar for teh PS3 to be soooooooooooooooooooo much more powerful.

    http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-1985-x-x-x?tag=boxcar_all_features_headline

    Tho Im not sayin i know what the numbers mean, just that they are similar.

  • dokodemo #194 7 years ago

    Please name one time in history someone created a pie chart and DIDN'T give themselves the largest slice?

  • IronGiant #195 7 years ago

    "If you couldnt give a shit either way IG, stop reading, just
    as you advise others to.

    If EG present opinions but then completely ignore criticisms
    of those opinions, and instead just cry about being accused
    of bias, then the criticisms will continue. There was a lot
    of unnecessary mud-slinging following the articles, but also
    a lots of fair points, all of which have been repeated
    above, and none of which have yet been addressed.

    Fine, EG arent obliged to address these, but then again
    no-one else is obliged to believe that EG shouldnt infact be
    retitled SonyGamer.net"

    No sir i won't stop reading, its bloody hilarious for a start. There's 2 possible reasons for what they've written. Either they were taken in by hype and swallowed it or they were genuinely thrilled and excited at what Sony showed. Personally i don't care which is true and in the big scheme of things it doesn't matter one bit, this is one site out of many gaming sites to look at. If i did care i'd disagree and move on, i certainly wouldn't throw my toys out the pram like you have. Saying they should be retitled Sonygamer is just bloody childish.

  • bionutz #196 7 years ago

    Erm, it's very easy for you guys to criticise, while not being at E3, the same difference as listening to a rock concert at home or being right there.
    Obviously Sony put up a very good act there. When the excitement fades away we can expect probably some more measured comments, but I kind of believe that overall what EG says is now the truth. MS was caught on the wrong foot and obviously had no idea about the ambition of Sony to prove that they are the king of the hill.

    Ioan.

    P.S. I'm a nintendo fan.

  • ClansOfIntrigue #197 7 years ago

    Yay for Eurogamer for being the only games website that actually tells readers what they think about stuff, rather than just paraphrasing the press-releases they receive...

  • onyxbox #198 7 years ago

    It's amazing to think that the company with supposedly the most 'childish' games is behaving the least childish about the next gen.

    I'm willing to bet PS3, XBox 360 and Revolution will be comparable machines in performance (generally speaking) with PS3 having the edge in graphics / texture detail etc. and that will mainly be due to NVidia and a 53GB Blue Ray drive (fully bump mapped high res textures will use a fair amount of disk space I would imagine).

  • Gurgeh #199 7 years ago

    Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but stating that the "next gen" console wars are over 6 months before the first console goes on sale is clearly a stupid opinion and you got called on it.

  • Feanor #200 7 years ago

    "Yay for Eurogamer for being the only games website that
    actually tells readers what they think about stuff, rather
    than just paraphrasing the press-releases they
    receive... "

    Laughable. There are dozens of web-sites out there giving their readers informed opinions on E3. Try checking 1up.com for thoughtful coverage of the PS3, instead of the 'OMFG KIllzone is teh awesomest' crap EG came up with based on an animated short.

  • thegamesthething #201 7 years ago

    "No sir i won't stop reading, its bloody hilarious for a
    start. There's 2 possible reasons for what they've written.
    Either they were taken in by hype and swallowed it or they
    were genuinely thrilled and excited at what Sony showed.
    Personally i don't care which is true and in the big scheme
    of things it doesn't matter one bit, this is one site out of
    many gaming sites to look at. If i did care i'd disagree and
    move on, i certainly wouldn't throw my toys out the pram
    like you have. Saying they should be retitled Sonygamer is
    just bloody childish."

    dunno m8 but it seems to me anyone wanting to chuck around allegations of toy-ejection might want to take a slighty more reasoned tone - chill

  • Krusty #202 7 years ago

    You tell em EG, I've seen all the presentations and the one that's got me most excited is the Sony one. That thing just oozes power.
    I can't stand M$'s "down with the kids" approach, hobbit or no hobbit.

    I'm mainly a PC gamer, although have two XBoxes (guess why), a PS2 and a Gamecube, so I can hardly be called bias.

    Now all we need is a PS3 mouse and keyboard and we're gonna be in heaven...
    Oh and a Cell based PC or Mac.

    Cheers,
    Krusty

  • siro #203 7 years ago

    I think this rectification post doesn't really help to lighten the image that you went overboard with the "PS3 is the real next generation [, xbox is the crack of a two-dollar service person in between]".

  • Eighthours #204 7 years ago

    Thank you Eurogamer!! THANK YOU for defending our gaming
    against the CNN/MTV/BUSH-lets-lead-the-sheep-tides!!!

    honestly the gaming scene is turning into a sad sad
    hollywood-esque BS

    How is reacting against an opinion based on believing fake videos, in any way related to your outburst? If anything, it's EG who are "sheep" for believing the Sony PR machine.

    If The Sun printed an article about corrupt policemen, which turned out to be based on inaccurate information, would you accuse anyone who pointed this out of being a "police fanboy" or a "sheep", or would you instead come to the rational conclusion that they were actually trying to tell the newspaper where it went wrong?

    I'm sorry, but the more I read the EG articles from that fateful day, the more the errors becomes obvious.
    Edited by Eighthours at 19/05/05 @ 15:28

  • IronGiant #205 7 years ago

    I dunno m8 i think everyone should chill or just go play some games instead of whining!

  • ST.. #206 7 years ago

    Damn right Tom! Testify!

    This elitist nonsense that has crept in lately is shocking. Face facts: the MS and Nintendo presentations were weaker than Sony's. There is really no way to spin it otherwise - and why should you have to?

    Goddamn forum dwelling fanboys.

  • AOFanboi #207 7 years ago

    Aye! Equal treatment now! Please remember to give equal coverage to the Gizmondo and N-Gage as you give to the PSP or DS! Or you are biased!

    Why can't you anti-Sonys see that Sony were better than Microsoft at selling their system? If you want a gaming site to say that XBox 360 is as good as or better than PS3, go bloody start one!

  • groovy #208 7 years ago

    Ha, EG see the MS stuff and rightly point out that much of it is patronising piffle (then later see the Nintendo Black Case and correctly realise theres not much to see yet) but when presented with Sonys PS3 part mock-up, they lose their mess along with any critical journalism or claims to professionlism - the forumites point this out and tom goes into a yeah-but-no-but frenzy

    Claims of fanboyism can mainly be ignored, wanting a blanced view doesnt necessarily put you in one camp or the other - im PS2 only and still think much of what they wrote was total bolox

  • Polymath #209 7 years ago

    I would be perfectly happy if EG went back to it's normal opinionated but fact-backed articles. Again, a title like:

    Sony's PR campaign sends Team MS packing.
    Demos inspire participants, leaving XBOX360 seeming lacklustre.

    That's all. Read the headlines from the last couple of days re: PS3. They imply things that really are premature. No one is arguing that MS didn't have it's teeth kicked in. We're arguing that stating opinions doesn't need to be misleading.

  • Abscido #210 7 years ago

    Try checking 1up.com
    for thoughtful coverage of the PS3, instead of the 'OMFG
    KIllzone is teh awesomest' crap EG came up with based on an
    animated short.

    The following is from the blog of Sam Kennedy, editor of 1up. The subhead to this article is 'Oh. My. God. Now THIS is next-gen', in reference to Sony's showing:

    "Oh. My. God. Now THIS is next generation. After seeing a lot of the Xbox 360 stuff over the past few weeks, I was starting to get a bit worried that the next generation leap wouldn't be large enough -- don't get me wrong, I've seen some truly amazing stuff on the 360 (like Gears of War), but nothing has absolutely blown me away. Nothing has really surprised me. Seeing some of the demos running on PS3, my jaw just dropped -- just as it did when I first saw Mario 64 on the N64, or just as it did when I saw MGS2 on the PS2. Killzone on PS3 just looks so amazing (you can catch it in 1UP's video player on the E3 page).'"

    The real problem here is EG letting their true reactions emerge in full on the front-page stories, but as you can see from above, the editor of 1up clearly feels the same way. Read his killzone comment, FFS.

    In fairness Feanor, you should do your research properly before making bold statements.

  • steviepunk #211 7 years ago

    Plenty of posts here already, so don't have time to read them all, however I was some what annoyed at EG's coverage of the Xbox360 and PS3, I just didn't think it was up to the standard of their usual coverage (I visit here daily, so I am an EG fan!)

    My main issues are:

    1. Pre-E3, everyone including EG was getting pretty excited about Xbox360, so to have them suddenly turn around and take such a negative slant on it was very strange.

    2. PS3 does look good, however as now seems to be widely known, much of the footage shown was pre-rendered or not PS3-real-time. This technique was used to attack the Dreamcast when Sony launched the PS2. Remember the final Fantasy ball room scene that was supposed to be real time - did we ever see a game with that level of visual quality?? I don't recall seeing one. However at the time this was sufficient to let everyone start bashing the Dreamcast, so Sony seem to be using this same tactic again and again people are falling for it.

    3. The attack on Microsoft for their 'hip-hop' approach is fairly justified IMO, however I would have to say that I wouldn't totally fault MS for it. While it seemed stupid to use long time gamers, MS is also trying to attract the attention of the non-gaming masses, it needs these people if it is get the market share they want. Whether this approach will actually get their attention or not is another matter....

    4. The excessive critisism of the gaming line up for Xbox360 was quite vicious. Last week many were getting excited at the prospect of a new DOA game and FF XI among others (don't know if that would include EG to be fair). I'll forgive the critisism of those titles, however to cristise the Xbox360 line up on the basis of the announced EA titles is somewhat unfair, given that EA will have the same titles going to the PS3 as well - to slate the Xbox and not the PS3 could be seen as very biased!! While the rest of us are quite excited at the prospect of Lost Odyssey, given the developers track record (Final Fantasy) I would expect a touch more optomism than that! finally, with EG getting themselves wet over the Kill Zone demo (pre-rendered ;) ) - which is a sequel, and with most of the rest of the PS3 line up also being sequels (Gran Tourismo, Devil May Cry, EA Games) is it very unfair to be so critical of MS about this.

    anyway, that's my 2p on the matter. Have a good weekend :)

    Stevie

  • Martin #212 7 years ago

    Well spoken/written Tom! Eurogamer is one of the few gaming sites I have any respect for and the only review site I ever trust.

    I've stopped playing games I've enjoyed when you told me they weren't any good (Cold Fear). That's how much I trust you.

    Don't let the ignoramus get to you.

  • Calgon #213 7 years ago

    Biased reaction then... nice try guys but you should have just fessed up... "sorry guys we got carried away... now back to business"

    Games is why I thought MS had the strongest showing they actually had some there.

    PDZ multiplayer inpressions are great as is GOW(real in-game next gen graphics looks as good as KZ2's CGI). Neither side has the final dev kits yet either.

    Sony better live up to all theyve said is all Im saying.
    You better hope so anyway 'Eurogamer staff' because although people did over react to the MS hate you showed(Im just going to wait till things go back to normal and forget it) you arent going to hear the end of it. EG will be reminded of how they hastily wrote MS off just by mearly watching the press conferences. Agreed you just gave your opinions but you are usually far more professional and smart about coming to conclusions which is one of the reasons I come hear... you share alot of my views on games. I was just suprised really, I still think Xbox360 has the strongest launch line up ever seen if those games do make it for launch anyway. Sonys offering looked the same old to me whats new about anything they showed aside from pretty CG and the promise of better graphics than PS2.. I dont see anything there that anyone else couldnt come up with.
    Edited by Calgon at 19/05/05 @ 19:34

  • Calgon #214 7 years ago

    Anyway as I said although nothing youve said there makes up for any of the clomplaints I had with those articles(I knew rather than see any faults youd blame everyone else). Im ready to forget that though and still have faith in ol Eurogamer... reviews have always been your strongest point IMO anyway which is why I come here when Im unsure of a game purchase(simply the most accurate and truethfull in my eyes). Gamespot is a wanna be Eurogamer they try and be as critical but lack the understanding, fairness, love for games that Eurogamer shows and have an unbalanced scoring system.
    Long live Eurogamer from this Xbox fan.

  • Palaemon #215 7 years ago

    Nice editorial, I get the drift.
    I respect Eurogamer for being frank.

    Regardless, my overall impression of the article in question was that it rubbished the xbox360 comprehensively before it was even launched into the market.

    Fair enough. It was an opinion article.

    As a reader, I have noticed that Eurogamer is sometimes a little less enthusiastic in reviewing xbox games when compared to similar gaming websites.

    It's EG's opinion, but if this keeps up, then I'm going to be less dependent on EG when deciding which games I should spend my hard earned on.

    Frank opinions are great when you agree with them. It would be a shame if those frank opinions reflect just one point of view.

  • BravoGolf #216 7 years ago

    Wow, loads of comments.

    Love each other, people!

  • penhalion #217 7 years ago

    My take on this as a programmer (and sometimes game industry contractor so I get to play on the Next Gen Kits) is that EG lost all perspective on this one and that for a news reporter is not a forgivable offence.

    Luckily the one good thing to come out of it is that we as gamers are not so easily swayed by reporter opinions any more. I said it a while ago on this site, when the Halo2 hype machine was in full swing here. "Halo2 isn't nearly as good as Halo 1 yet you [meaning EG] seem oblivious to this fact. It will take a lot of people a long time to forget this hype blindness".

    I'm glad to see that making up our own minds has now become the norm and relying on the obviously biased opinions held by EG and many other [supported by Ads] sites is becoming a thing of the past.

    I guess it's taken this backlash for EG to realise that we are more like bobbits wife than a common street whore. You sleep with sony and microsoft again and I just may cut that big bias thing off ;o)
    Edited by penhalion at 19/05/05 @ 21:00

  • Feanor #218 7 years ago

    "In fairness Feanor, you should do your research properly
    before making bold statements."

    Uh huh, you show one blog from 1up as evidence that I didn't do my research when that blog isn't nearly as over-the-top as half a dozen Eurogamer articles? Better luck next time.

  • ave #219 7 years ago

    Feanor: Not to mention, it's his PERSONAL blog, not an editorial?

  • ave #220 7 years ago

    btw, my take:

    I found some of the articles(and their names) to be quite vicious in the last week, as well as frequent hypocrisy(e.g., slating xbox360 for HDTV, but praising sony for outputting to TWO HDTV), and an awful lot of content that turned out to be wrong.

    P.S., I own a PC, PS2 & XBOX, and I've always regretted getting an xbox(only played two games much on it, fable and halo(1)), just stick to my PS2 and back catalog of PS1 jrpg's.

    I know eventually I'll get a PS3 when my PS2 breaks down(did the same with the PS2) to play my PS1/2 games on.

  • kflarsen #221 7 years ago

    "I've stopped playing games I've enjoyed when you told me
    they weren't any good (Cold Fear). That's how much I
    trust you."

    Do you even have any idea how that comment makes you look?

  • Kami #222 7 years ago

    The Nintendo faux-pas was really quite blatant. If that had made it into a magazine publication the writer would (and rightly so) have been fired - thankfully, the internet allows such mistakes to be corrected pretty swiftly, which is maybe the reason I'm actually not too harsh with the message - it was addressed and changed pretty quickly and that is admirable, because it didn't HAVE to be done. However, the original comment was neither reporting nor opinion. It just wasn't true at all. I saw it. I wondered how you guys could make such a blatantly untrue statement.

    I've been a member here at EG for over two years, more if you count my time as an unregistered user back in the old, old days. Short of me meeting my maker, I'm hoping that I'll still be posting (and whinging, and moaning, and complaining) here well into the next generation of consoles.

    I just hope that what I've seen here the past couple of days is just down to the excitement and disappointments that E3 provides every year... highs and lows, swings and roundabouts... I just don't want to see a comment such as the one made on the Nintendo article made again. It shouldn't have been made, but it happened, I'll drop this now - but as I said, I'm really hoping this was a one-off mistake...

  • Scimarad #223 7 years ago

    What exactly is the problem with the Nintendo comment?

    Have Nintendo not already said they aren't try to compete with Sony and Microsoft in terms of raw power? Why is saying they concede the battle to the other two particularly innacurate or more to the point why are some of you treating it as if it a mortal insult?

    I think you all need to lighten up a bit:-)

  • JimboUK #224 7 years ago

    Bloody hell, 236 comments. People! Please! They haven't "written off" MS. They don't "hate" the XBox. Their "standards" haven't dropped. They were at two presentations, where specs and games were presented. In their opinion, one presentation was better than the other. One was filled with silly shite. One set of specs seemed oddly inferior to the other. And some games looked good, some didn't. That's it. Things will probably change depending on new developments. That's what life is. Now go from this place! Episode 3 has just come out! Argue about that instead!

  • steviepunk #225 7 years ago

    yeah, Episode 3 is great!! What a way to end the series!! And the way it ends... leaves it wide open for a sequel... ;)

  • Feanor #226 7 years ago

    "One set of specs seemed oddly inferior to the other."

    The problem is, of course, that the specs aren't really that far apart according to experts, and you can't possibly judge a console on tech specs anyway.

  • Calgon #227 7 years ago

    Indeed like I said not alot is known about the GPU in Xbox360... out of interest EG did any of you pop by the ATI booth? It seems I was right that people underestemated MS...

    They've recently unvield some more information on the R500 and it seems alot of people spoke too soon:

    http://www.techreport.com/etc/2005q2/xbox360-gpu/index.x?pg=1
    www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzcxLDM
    www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=2

    It seems the GPU may will be MS's big gun to me, it simply "outclasses" the Nvidia chip in the PS3 by "my initial impressions".

    We should simply wait and see its going to be another battle of specs.
    Edited by Calgon at 20/05/05 @ 11:10

  • deaddwarf #228 7 years ago

    hey, i thought every article was dead on after seeing everything with my own eyes. Keep it up EG!

  • nick_f Verified Senior Producer, Microsoft #229 7 years ago

    Despite what they may like to think, games journalists are not game developers. They do not completely understand the realities of the development process, they have not been exposed to a product dev cycle and they are woefully unaware of the realities of developing launch titles for a new hardware platform.

    It is not surprising that Eurogamer - and virtually every other online site - has been suckered into the PS3 hype. These are not people who work with software on a daily basis, their judgements are based on finished (or very-nearly-finished) versions of software. Even the "preview" versions of games that the press are exposed to are misleadingly "polished up" (despite what the game's producer / PR will claim, obviously).

    What's my point? I guess it is this: accept that games journalists are gamers, not game developers. They don't care about the reality of the next-gen situation, they are just reporting on what they saw - and they saw PS3 blow Xbox360 out the water. It is up to us, as developers, to show what the machines are truly capable of. After all, the competition will be working on the exact same hardware as we are (post-launch, anyway, but that's a whole other story)...

  • penhalion #230 7 years ago

    @Nick_f

    I agree. I've seen and managed to have a scratch at both of the pre dev kits. The Killzone 2 demo could not have been produced on either! The real dev kits are expected to be up to par but, there is no way any of sonys demos, even the unreal tech one, were running on the pre-dev kits and as far as I am aware these are currently the only ones that are available.

    As a result of this and the obvious lack of any investigation on the EG reporters part, I found the comments made about XBox360 and nintendos Revolution to be totally biased. It really did make me wonder if Sony had put their hands in their pockets and funded the EG trip out there!

  • JimboUK #231 7 years ago

    Feanor: "The problem is, of course, that the specs aren't really that far apart according to experts, and you can't possibly judge a console on tech specs anyway."

    They're not judging it on the specs, They gave their initial impressions based on the specs, the games, and the overall presentation.

    nick_f: " Despite what they may like to think, games journalists are not game developers. They do not completely understand the realities of the development process, they have not been exposed to a product dev cycle and they are woefully unaware of the realities of developing launch titles for a new hardware platform. "

    Of course EG are not developers, but neither are us ordinary gamers - does that mean we're not entitled to have an opinion either?

    penhalion: "As a result of this and the obvious lack of any investigation on the EG reporters part, I found the comments made about XBox360 and nintendos Revolution to be totally biased. It really did make me wonder if Sony had put their hands in their pockets and funded the EG trip out there!"

    You mean their comments were "inaccurate" or "misinformed", not biased. If someone gets something wrong, it's not bias. If they have an opinion different to yours, it's not bias. And we don't even know for definite if they're wrong or not, seeing as things are at a very early stage, where everything can, and probably will, change. EG's initial impressions are that the PS3 is more exciting than the XBox 360.

    I can't believe this bullshit is still going on - it's fine to say EG are wrong about anything, but enough with the bias shit. They're not biased. There's no conspiracy here. End of fucking story.

  • Ryu #232 7 years ago

    they're biased.

  • mad_caddy #233 7 years ago

    I think everyone is throwing bad words at EG because of the new look site but it's covered up by the whole E3 thing, people dont like change you see!

    bring back the old site, save yourself!
    Edited by mad_caddy at 20/05/05 @ 14:35

  • sonmi451 #234 7 years ago

    bah! Gaystation 3, DirtBox360, Nofriendo Revoltion!

    get outside and hug a tree.

  • Xerx3s #235 7 years ago

    There once was a dog. He loved his boss and he always did everything in its power to serve and protect his boss. The boss in his place loved his dog and often rewarded him with a bone. One day however, the boss wanted to pick up the bone and dog bit him in the hand. The moment the dog did that, he realised he was wrong but instead of making up for it with his boss, he started growling. The boss was furious and locked him up for 4 days. After he released him again, everything was fine and they lived happely ever after, except for one thing. How could the boss ever trust his beloved pet ever again, knowing that he might betray him again?

  • JimboUK #236 7 years ago

    Luckily, the boss died shortly afterwards from complications when his wound got infected. The dog lived happily ever after, occasionally pissing on the corpse of the whiny, annoying boss. Hooray.

  • blicko #237 7 years ago

    I think Eurogamer is biased. I remember when this site was plastered with "Devastation" advertisments. Eurogamer did several "news" items on this god-aweful game hyping it up before it's release. How about a review? No.

    If you're going to do PR-esque previews for the advertisers on your site, you should do a review to set the record straight (then we can judge the effect of the dollar$ on your judgement). Otherwise you come off a just another cog in the hype-machine.

  • savant #238 7 years ago

    rdexter - the Killzone debate is pretty much done and dusted now. Even the developers have admitted that it's a pre-rendered approximation of what they think the hardware will be capable of. The only PS3 footage you can be sure is genuine is the interactive stuff they showed at the conference like the ducks demo or the leaves 'tornado'. The Unreal demo is also impressive, but the Xbox 360 Gears of War footage runs on the same engine and is just as stunning.

    Sony did the same thing with the launch of the PS2 and it's a shame that many sites have been hoodwinked again and aren't lauding Microsoft for being more open ("the stuff was on alpha kits" etc.)

    I'm just sick of this whole situation. I shall live under a rock for the next year and see if the games that do come out actually live up to the next gen promise.

  • tengu #239 7 years ago

    Dave J, you're a sad bastard, fuck off and get a life. There's more to this big ole' world than wanking yourself daft over your Xbox, you know?

    That article proves nothing.

  • jpar123 #240 7 years ago

    I think the coverage has been a fair "representation" on what happened at E3. And if the PS3 came out better in their presentation then that's what EG should report and I think they did that.

  • Feanor #241 7 years ago

    It can't be fair if they the say the PS3 humbles the Xbox 360 because PS3 prerendered videos look better than actual Xbox 360 games running on dev kits, so you're just wrong.

  • kaosridder #242 7 years ago

    EG is a sad, sad gamingsite. So you cant even see when you are sucked in by hype and admit that? Reaction, not bias? Maybe, but obviously you thought that everything Phony showed you were REAL, didn't you? And that was what you reacted on, wasn't it? Come on now. You were hyped out of your skulls. No shame in admiting that.
    Edited by kaosridder at 22/05/05 @ 09:22

  • groovy #243 7 years ago

    When i read the xbox forums, i expect a load of PS2 bashing and can filter it out. When i read PCZone magazine i expect a load of idiotic console bashing and can ignore that too.

    I used to read EG, sorry SG, for balanced gaming journalism - everything will now be passed through a Sony suckup filter, so when i read that 'everything in the demos was real time', i know the sort of selective editorial approach it is based on
    Edited by groovy at 22/05/05 @ 10:34

  • JimboUK #244 7 years ago

    Here we go again, a new onslaught of wanky XBox fanboys, watch your heads everyone, there's going to be a flood of bullshit.

    Fucking whiny, wanky, petulant, childish, obnoxious pricks.

  • Yaz #245 7 years ago

    ****
    Edited by Yaz at 23/05/05 @ 01:45

  • Yaz #246 7 years ago

    CONFIRMED: Killzone and Motorstorm were pre-rendered (well duh!)

    According to EGM Editor;

    http://lithium.1up.com/zd/board/message?board.id=egm_disc&message.id=444011

    Go to page 7.

    ---
    mayorgamecube: oh, by the way, is the legitimacy of killzone still up in the air?

    EGMShawn: It's not up in the air. Smart editors asked just that and got answers.

    mayorgamecube: what was the answer?

    EGMShawn: CG target video attempting to suggest what Sony hopes to see on PS3 three to four years from now.
    ---

    Hence the objections towards those E3 editorials from myself and many others here.

    So, these were not just complaints from XBox fanboys who think EG is biased, these were complaints from gamers like myself who felt EG had been fooled by CG movies and allowed their excitement to spill out into their editorials.

    Killzone has been the talk of E3 since that Sony conference, and as a result PS3 developers who actually had REAL game footage to show were almost completely overshadowed by those CG movies.

    Anyone thinks that is good for PS3? I certainly don't.

  • Polymath #247 7 years ago

    Jimbo,
    I would respectfully ask you to be a little less abusive. I honestly think some people are trying to discuss their opinions. Spewing vitriol helps no one.

  • blicko #248 7 years ago

    "NEWSFLASH" "NEWSFLASH" "NEWSFLASH"

    The Xbox 360
    "IS MORE POWERFUL" than the PS3!

    Goto the link
    below and all will be
    explained:

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/6179
    51p1.html

    The title and blurb from the article ...

    "E3 2005: Microsoft's Xbox 360 vs. Sony's PlayStation 3
    With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?"

    You're right. All is revealed. I mean if there's anyone we can trust to give us an objective analysis of these consoles it'll be Sony or Microsoft.

    Now excuse me while I read the latest Microsoft-funded independent study into the TCO of Linux vs Windows while downloading the latest Sony game mock-up.

  • groovy #249 7 years ago

    yeah nice one jimbo , anyone who doesnt like the recent coverage must be a 'wanky xbox fanboy' - good argument, you must be king of the playground discussion group

  • JimboUK #250 7 years ago

    Abusive? Damn right I am. People just trying to discuss their opinions? What, like this: "I used to read EG, sorry SG, for balanced gaming journalism - everything will now be passed through a Sony suckup filter" -- " EG is a sad, sad gamingsite" -- "this is the type of information Eurogamer doesn't want you to see because this site is bias towards the PS3! If I get banned, so what! At least some of you would of saw this news by then!" -- "hehehe this proves that only ppl like boy george (and eurogamer staff)will buy the gaystation3...GAYBAR GAYBAR ....GAYBAR ! oh and ps! EG u know u blatently wrote most of them comments praising u yourselves! XBOX FOREVER !" -- Pardon me for missing their contribution to the discussion.

    I didn't say you're all wanky XBox fanboys, some of you are well able to argue your case properly. I'm talking about the ones who talk shite like the above. I'm sick of them, they're just childish and stupid, and they annoy the shit out of me.

  • thegamesthething #251 7 years ago

    good

  • mash the x button #252 7 years ago

    Yawn. Wait for the consoles wait for the games, then make your own mind up.
    Don't believe the hype!