Turning Your Android Phone into a Retro Gaming Powerhouse

By Damien McFerran Published 5 December, 2011

A link to the past.

As the video gaming juggernaut rumbles tirelessly onwards, one might assume that the past is in danger of being forgotten. Games like Gears of War 3, Rage and Uncharted 3 are pushing the graphical standard into hitherto unknown realms, while titles like Skyrim boast gameplay so engrossing that previous efforts seem almost simplistic in comparison. Surely then, no one could possibly be interested in dusty old retro titles when such aesthetic splendour is available right here, right now?

Mercifully, that couldn't be further from the truth. Despite the massive strides being made in terms of both visuals and depth, more and more people are casting their gaze into the past, looking to reacquaint themselves with classic titles or discover vintage experiences with a fresh pair of eyes.

While services such as the Wii Virtual Console, Xbox Live Arcade and the PlayStation Network are allowing us to enjoy drip-fed classics from yesteryear, the rapid expansion of the smart phone arena has also played a huge part in keeping retro gaming alive. The average handset is comfortably capable of replicating the performance of 8 and 16-bit machines, with some even tentatively dipping a toe into 32 and 64-bit waters. Astonishingly, consoles that were once considered cutting edge only a decade and a half ago can now be carried around in your pocket.

1

MD.emu is a fantastic emulator for Sega's Mega Drive and Master System, and Mega CD support is promised in the future.

Google's Android operating system is arguably at the forefront of this retro revival. This is largely thanks to the platform's open nature; while Apple's iPhone is locked down and its App Store diligently policed, the Android Market is slightly more lax - which is both a blessing a curse, if you look at the sheer volume of dodgy downloads available.

Emulators do occasionally get taken down due to copyright infringements, but for every one Google removes, five more seem to sprout up in its place. Such moves are futile anyway; Android supports multiple marketplaces, and also allows users to to 'side-load' applications downloaded from sources other than the official Android Market. On the iPhone, such functionality is only possible if you jailbreak your device, thereby invalidating your warranty.

If you're reading this and wondering just how it's possible to transform what appears to be a fairly standard Android handset into a dream ticket to some of the finest games from the past thirty years of video gaming, then rest easy. The purpose of this feature is to not only to inform but also to educate. We're going to showcase the best retro gaming applications, where to source games and how you can use proper controllers to create the ultimate portable gaming platform.

Step 1: Preparation

3

Sony Ericsson's Xperia Play (AKA: The PlayStation Phone) offers the perfect interface for retro gaming.

You may assume that you'll be able to source all of your emulators from the official Android Market. Sadly, due to Google's inconsistent policies on such programs, many of the best and most established emulators are no longer available for download there, while poorly-programmed substitutes appear on an almost daily basis as opportunist coders look to make a quick buck. With that in mind, one of the first things you'll want to download is the SlideMe 'SAM' app. This is an alternative app market for Android which has provided a safe haven for developers locked out from the official market.

To install SAM - as well as any other applications you download - you'll need to make sure you phone is configured to allow side-loading. In your phone's 'Settings' menu, selection the 'Applications' option and ensure that the 'Unknown Sources' box is ticked.

Step 2: Choosing your Emulators

Between the Android Market and the SlideMe Market, there's no shortage of emulators to download. It pays to be wary, however - many of these programs are based on the same code, and crafty developers charge exorbitant prices for apps that are readily available for free elsewhere. Here we present a selection of the best downloads, saving you the bother of having to find out the hard way.

SNES9X EX

2

The iconic SNES console is faithfully represented by SNES9X EX, which is so good that Nintendo took action forced it underground.

Nintendo's SNES needs little in the way of introduction, and its lofty reputation is sure to place it at the top of many would-be emulation enthusiast's wish list. Thankfully, Android is served well by the sublime SNES9X EX, which offers a highly accurate replication of the 16-bit powerhouse. Must-have classics such as Super Castlevania IV, Zelda: A Link to the Past and Chrono Trigger all play perfectly. So comprehensive is this particular emulator that it even supports Super FX games like Star Fox and Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. Sadly, due to a recent complaint (presumably by Nintendo itself), SNES9X EX has been removed from the official Android Market, but it can be downloaded free of charge direct from the SNES9X developer's website. While you're at it, check out MD.emu, PCE.emu and GBC.emu, all from the same developer.

Tiger Arcade

While Tiger Arcade doesn't emulate every single coin-op game, it's capable of handling some surprisingly complex titles and will happily play the vast majority of Neo Geo MVS games and Capcom CPS2 releases. This means you can enjoy Metal Slug, King of Fighters, Street Fighter Alpha and DoDonPachi on your phone's screen. The recent launch of an Android port of MAME4All could endanger Tiger Arcade's position as the number one choice for coin-op classics, but for now it remains the king of the hill. You can grab it from the SlideMe Market.

FPse for Android

4

The iControlPad not only works on Android, but also on jail-broken iPhones, too.

While Sony is busy working on its PlayStation Suite for Android devices, you can get a taster of what authentic 32-bit gaming is like by downloading this accomplished emulator. FPse offers near-flawless performance and is compatible with a staggering range of PlayStation titles. Even demanding games like Gran Turismo run at full speed, although you'll need a phone with at least a 1GHz processor to achieve such wonders.

N64oid

Arguably the most advanced machine to currently be emulated on Android, the Nintendo 64 is host to such seminal classics as Super Mario 64, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and F-Zero X. N64oid allows you to emulate these stunning games, as well as many others. The only snag is that performance and compatibility are patchy - some games work better than others, while many refuse to load. Still, if you pick wisely you'll be able to enjoy some of the finest video games ever created, all from the comfort of your Android device. N64oid is available on the SlideMe Market.

Step 3: Getting the perfect interface

If you're lucky enough to own a Sony Ericsson Xperia Play then you have our permission to feel very smug indeed. The Xperia Play's physical gaming controls make it ideal for retro gaming, and many emulators now automatically support the handset's button layout without the player having to change a single setting in the options menu.

For those of you with less well-equipped Android devices, you'll either have to make do with imprecise touch-screen controls or you can opt for a more appealing alternative: a proper pad.

6

Apps like Emulator ROMs may be legally dubious, but they make populating your phone's memory with classic games so much easier.

Thanks to the fact that both the Nintendo Wii Remote and the Sony PlayStation 3 pad use Bluetooth to communicate with their respective consoles, they can also be linked to your Android phone using apps such as Bluez IME, Wii Controller IME and Sixaxis Controller. Many emulators - such as SNES9X EX - actually include Bluetooth pad support from within the app itself, but those of you hoping to use a Dual Shock 3 will need to make sure that your phone is rooted first - a process which varies in complexity from device to device and isn't for the fainthearted.

If you want the authentic PlayStation experience without having to root your phone, you can try the Phonejoy pad. Shamelessly derived from the iconic Dual Shock design, this pad boasts analogue sticks and plenty of buttons. Using Bluez IME, you can pair it with your phone and map the inputs to various Android keys. It even comes with a little kick-stand which allows you to rest your phone on a flat surface for optimal viewing.

Another option is the iControlPad, a wireless gaming controller produced by the industrious team behind the Pandora open source handheld. The iControlPad boasts a fantastic D-pad and twin analogue sliders, as well as a multitude of buttons.

When you consider that many Android phones - such as the Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc S and Samsung Galaxy S2 - come with HDMI-out capability, the prospect of bringing life to old software becomes even more interesting. Using wireless pads like the iControlPad and Phonejoy, you can hook your phone up to your LCD TV and enjoy a near-perfect console experience.

The future of retro gaming on Android

Being able to carry around hundreds of classic games in your pocket is a truly amazing experience for anyone who has lived through the 8, 16 and 32-bit eras. However, technology rarely remains static. We've recently seen the Asus Transformer Prime introduce quad-core power to the Android tablet market, and companies like Samsung, HTC and LG are feverishly working on incorporating the same processors in their phones. This will herald a new era of mobile power, and that means a whole new generation of retro consoles will be potentially up for grabs.

The 128-bit Sega Dreamcast has already been emulated on Android (albeit at a low frame rate) and one has to wonder what doors a quad-core 2.5GHz CPU will open; could we be playing PlayStation 2 and Xbox titles on our phones in a year or two? With the rapid advancement of mobile tech, it's certainly possible - but as we've hopefully illustrated, there's still plenty of enjoyment to be had emulating less advanced hardware.

Picture of Damien.

About Damien McFerran

Retro fanatic and tech bore Damien has been writing words for professional publication since 2006, but has yet to fulfill his lifelong ambition of being commissioned by Your Kitten Magazine.

Read more articles from Damien by visiting the Damien McFerran archive page.

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Comments (145) Latest comment 6 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • J0rdan_KZ #1 6 months ago

    Well, some one has a Galaxy Nexus, don't they?

    To be honest, tablets like the Eee Pad Transformer offer the best emulation experience on Android. Plugging in a pair of 360 pads, hooking it up to the TV via WiDi or HDMI. With the additional smoothing the emulator offers, some of the games look fantastic.

    Super Mario Kart anyone?

  • Triggerhappytel #2 6 months ago

    I just bought Chu Chu Rocket on my Android last night for the princely sum of 69 pence. I've never played it before but it really is excellent so far -- more of this please Sega :)

  • dr_zoidthrob #3 6 months ago

    Hang on... this is an Android article. Good job I was sitting down when I saw it.

    Good article, by the way. I'm enjoying playing Link's Awakening again (thanks to last weeks Zelda article)


    I'd like to see the DC emu running on a Transformer Prime

  • LazyDan #4 6 months ago

    I can't quite believe an entire article is being devoted to condoning piracy and instructing everyone on how to do it on a major gaming site. Have the editors gone mental? Games for most of those systems are still on sale, let's not forget.

    This is aside from the fact that you're advising people to use unofficial marketplaces and rom finding apps which are usually littered with security and privacy issues (watch out for anything that asks for too many permissions - why would a rom finder need access to your GPS?)

    EDIT: Looks like EG have quietly removed the sections detailing where to get ROMs from now, not that it makes the decision to run this article on a site like this any less bizarre.
    Edited by LazyDan at 05/12/11 @ 16:31

  • toythatkills #5 6 months ago

    Wow, this article is going to win Eurogamer loads of friends in the game dev community.

  • Cosmopolitan #6 6 months ago

    Apart from FPSE which is a great emulator, Xperia Play users are now able to recompile their PlayStation iso's (made of their officially bought games of course) to a format recognizable by their phone, using a so called PSXPeria tool. Although the compatibility rate is not high, those PlayStation games that work, work fantastically, and are even more fluent than via FPSE.

    EDIT: By the way a similar article was published on pocketgamer not so long ago, but to find it here... is quite stunning. Times they are changing, as is the view on piracy(?)
    Edited by Cosmopolitan at 05/12/11 @ 10:27

  • Ryze #7 6 months ago

    Does the Dreamcast REALLY use a 128bit processor and architecture?

    Hmmmm... not too sure about that one.

    edit: Thought not -

    #Bits_and_system_power
    Edited by Ryze at 05/12/11 @ 10:56

  • AgeOfChaos #8 6 months ago

    Most people have owned Zelda and Mario 64 at one time. Doesnt hurt to download them.

  • weedar #9 6 months ago

    "Although it's often said that if you own the original game then you are entitled to use ROM images on a personal basis, many experts assert that this is untrue."

    Right. You may only drink your soda from the can. Pouring it into a glass is illegal.

  • mrpon #10 6 months ago

    Currently enjoying Metroid Zero Mission on my Archos 70. It's rather good.

  • the_dudefather #11 6 months ago

    If the xperia play had a TV-out connection, it would be perfect :)

    Playing cannon fodder and Resident evil 3 on the bus is pretty nice

  • bad09 #12 6 months ago

    LOL I knew upon reading this the moral high horses would come riding in :)

    Emulation of really old games is not the same retail piracy guys it's keeping the history of gaming alive, I guess there is a grey area now where some publishers re-release some of the biggest games on different platforms (which is noted in the article) but mostly these games are forgotten never to be sold again except some 2nd hand console and games off ebay which gives the makers the same amount of money (as in zero!).

    Having been robbed of money for the crime that is the sonic collection on PC I think it's safe to say you are better off with emulators a lot of the time on the resold stuff to :)
    Edited by bad09 at 05/12/11 @ 10:39

  • AgeOfChaos #13 6 months ago

    "then you are harming the chances of publishers supporting retro gaming in the future."

    So I am potentially harming the industry from charging me extortionate sums of money for games I used to own? Im glad. If they priced them fairly, and maybe included some additional features to make it a more attractive package, I might be tempted to pay.

    And if I want to play some obscure Master System game for the nostalgia, I should buy a Master System off Ebay etc. How does that support the industry??
    Edited by AgeOfChaos at 05/12/11 @ 10:43

  • Toothball #14 6 months ago

    @Triggerhappytel

    Technically, Chu Chu Rocket costs 69p more than it did originally, but I think we can let them off this time. I spotted it on Android last week too and it turned out to be quite a good fit for a phone.

  • Jonny5Alive7 #15 6 months ago

    This is a great article. I'd like a bit more info on what the touch screen controls are like though. Its not really a portable retro gaming machine if you have to carry a pad round with you.

  • Rens11 #16 6 months ago

    Sony xperia play for £150 was my best buy this year playing ps1 classics on it is so much better than using the touchscreen

  • bad09 #17 6 months ago

    @Toothball

    Actually you could buy CCR as well as them giving it away to everyone. Didn't stop the guy in the shop laughing at me when I tried to trade it in though :)
    Edited by bad09 at 05/12/11 @ 10:41

  • Der_tolle_Emil #18 6 months ago

    Now that's an interesting article. I'm a big fan of emulation, especially when it comes to systems that are pretty much impossible to get or if the games are nowhere to be found. With services like Virtual Console I really have to question if such an article makes sense. It would be a huge lie to say that I never used an emulator before but almost advertising how to get ROMs is weird - almost unprofessional.

    It's highly hypocritical for me to say this but that's the way it is. It has always been a huge grey area and I'd prefer it to stay that way.

  • monkeyspasm #19 6 months ago

    MAME4Droid is a million times better than Tiger Arcade. Smoother, better touchscreen controls and more compatibility.

    Also, the touchscreen controls on N64oid are great, much better than on FPSE, so I tend to play N64 stuff rather than PSX. I've managed to get really far in Goldeneye on a touchscreen, which is preposterous!

    Of the rest, Gameboid is the best GBA emulator, GBC A.D is the best Gameboy / GB Colour emulator and Ataroid is the best Atari 2600 emulator I reckon.

  • anomagnus #20 6 months ago

    I'm also a bit surprised by the article. At heart, emulation is piracy.

    Now, don't panic, i've used emualtors in the past myself, to catch up on some old classics (actraiser 1, anyone? cybernator!). And i do feel that after 5 years or so, it would do a developer no harm to release the code for these games, but i'm just surprised to see a 'mainsream' gaming site advocate its use.

  • Toothball #21 6 months ago

    I got an Xperia Play a couple of months back now. I'd seem stories of emulating games on it although most of those involved rooting your phone, which I'm mostly not interested enough to bother with. It's good that there are options available that don't involve a voided warranty, but I still have more recent games to contend with than I have time to play them. So old games tend to remain in their boxes. Pity really, but until someone discovers an extra four or five hours in the day I'll have to make do.

    I'll still take that dose of smugness though.

  • Bibbo #22 6 months ago

    I've been playing many games of late on my Iconia tablet. Everything emulated brilliantly, Been enjoying the old arcade classics of my early teens. Aaaah, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, Aliens vs Predator, all the Neo Geo stuff. Using a Wiimote too for a gamepad, and HDMI out to the TV. Don't get better than that really!

  • AgeOfChaos #23 6 months ago

    Getting charged for 20 year old retro games bwahahahaha

  • lucky_jim #24 6 months ago

    Oh come off it, emulation isn't the same as proper piracy. You guys must hate World of Spectrum.

  • Toothball #25 6 months ago

    @Ryze

    There were definitely claims that the DC was 128 bit in the early days, although I'm not sure about the details. I think it wasn't far off the technicalities they used to claim the Jaguar was 64-bit when it was just two 32 bit processors or something.

    I'm glad that processor metric died off years ago, it wasn't really built to last.

  • schnide #26 6 months ago

    "Super Mario 64, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time ... N64oid allows you to emulate these stunning games ... The only snag is that performance and compatibility are patchy."

    "Oh, except for the other snag, which is that Nintendo are currently selling these titles which they kind of have the right to as they own the original game, the new game and of course the IP, and what we're helping you to do here is play them without paying anyone for it."

  • OnlyMe #27 6 months ago

    Toothball

    I've not rooted my Xperia Play, and all I did (originally before this article) was download a couple of free emulators from the Market, then put some roms into a dedicated folder on the memory card. Can't get much easier than that.

    To be honest, I have no idea what good rooting an android phone is.

  • jonfon #28 6 months ago

    Sega? Nintendo? Pffft. Not retro enough. I have Marvin on my HTC, great little speccy emulator with a built-in browser for browsing through games.

    http://marvin-emulator.blogspot.com/

  • Widge #29 6 months ago

    @AgeOfChaos used to own is probably a poor choice of words. I can't go and take a load of old PS3 games from a shop under the proviso that I used to own them once.

  • Ferral #30 6 months ago

    I have UAE4Droid (Amiga), Frodo (C64) and Marvin (Speccy, only kind of works) on my Desire HD. The Commodore ones work great and are good for a blast while waiting for the kids to come out of school.

    Love retro gaming and play a lot of the old games via emulators on my PC (Use Vice and WinUAE for the C64 & Amiga however on the PC), just recently sorted the Atari ST Emulator, bit more complicated to use than the Amiga one and the games are about the same, still enjoy using it though.

  • minimong #31 6 months ago

    "Emulation is piracy, blah, blah, blah." what a bunch of moralistic wankers some of you really are.

  • AgeOfChaos #32 6 months ago

    My nephew Billy really wanted to legally download a variety of old retro games. In total it was going to cost him £30, which he was happy to pay.

    I ridiculed him, and then advised him to download them for free via an emulator, which he then did.

    The very next day the publishers of the retro games went out of business!

    And he spent the £30 he had saved, buying drugs! Nothing was ever the same again.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #33 6 months ago

    "I can't quite believe an entire article is being devoted to condoning piracy"

    Oh DO shut up, you penis. Absolutely NOWHERE in the article is piracy "condoned". It talks of downloading ROMs for games you already own, which isn't piracy in any conceivable moral or legal sense.

  • jontseng #34 6 months ago

    1) The goody goodies have a point. Just because something is old doesn't make it any more illegal. Or would you say its fine for me to walk into a retro record shop and nick a stack of vinyl LPs because they are outdated and no-one sells them any more?

    2) Clearly emulation per se is not illegal. However let's face it that majority of people reading this are likely to download ROMs for free, which is. Its obvious to me, its obvious to you and its obvious to Damien McFerran, unless he's been living under a rock for the past decade. That's the double standard, and why its surprising this post went up.

    3) Having said that if you are looking to run emulators, in addition to the Xperia Play people should also consider android phones with slide-out keyboards. I have an Xperia Mini Pro which sports a 1Ghz processor and a keyboard. Runs FPSe and SNES emulators like a dream (IMHO console emulators are unusable with touchscreen only). As a bonus, DOSBox also opens up a bunch of old DOS games, although the speed issues are more significant.

    J

  • Robbie_Wetta #35 6 months ago

    So what Eurogamer are saying is its ok to steal as long as the game is really, really old...

  • jontseng #36 6 months ago

    @Rev.StuartCampbell
    FYI your statement it isn't piracy in any legal sense is factually incorrect. It is.

    http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

    Just thought you'd like to know...

  • silversun #37 6 months ago

    would be really intrested in a list of games that have been made freeware
    I like the whole retro scene and there is some truth in it being able to keep gaming history, i also love stuff like the virtual console.
    Given a choice to buy it legal way to support the people that made the game (or currently own the right to the game) is a great thing , i just wish more classic where on these services because alot would get lost with out the emulation scene due to being abandoned by it publisher going out of buisness or other reasons like legal issues.
    why the heck is earthbound not on the vc yet?

    Also would not mind see some untranslated games come over, would love play old fire emblems and megami tensei games even if they not translated.

    They could even ask the fan community to use there translations.
    Just look at the psp port of ys.
    I would rather support the offical release then go another way with it but understand the other point of view as well.
    Edited by silversun at 05/12/11 @ 13:36

  • jaguarwong #38 6 months ago

    Hoping for an Xperia Play for Xmas with exactly this function in mind.

    You probably just saved me a fair bit of time Mr Writer, cheers.

  • redcrayon #39 6 months ago

    @revstu

    The end of paragraph 2 says 'looking to reacquaint themselves with classic titles or discover vintage experiences with a fresh pair of eyes.'

    The second half of that sentence isn't exactly about games you already own, is it.

  • kingcrowbar #40 6 months ago

    Looking forward to the follow-up article of how people can go about legitimately ripping "their" games from their arcade cabinets and vast piles of carts.

    Seriously, what hardware do I need to get my saves from my GBA/DS carts.

  • Bagpuss #41 6 months ago

    Sigh...i hate the fact Emulation is now mainstream.

    I remember the good old days when it was a fascinating underground scene on this new fangled internet thingymajig...mention Mame,Zsnes,Raine to people and they would look at you in complete ignorance and have no idea of all the hundreds of games they could be playing on their Pc's..


    Hate it when the plebs move into the neighbourhood.

  • JohnnyHeaven #42 6 months ago

    legal grey area aside playing ESP.Ra.De along with Windjammers is pretty damn amazing

  • LFace #43 6 months ago

    @Bagpuss Daves Classics, JoseQ Emuviews etc.. Aaaah they were the days. I also worked on Emuunlim.com website back in the day (though granted not much cos I was a lazy bastard!)

  • oupe #44 6 months ago

    @jontseng

    People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?

    The problem is that it's illegal.

    Technically they are right but come on, this is BS.

  • adzengland #45 6 months ago

    Naughty naughty!

    http://www.cristgaming.com/pirate.swf

  • castertroy #46 6 months ago

    Thank you :)

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #47 6 months ago

    "Just thought you'd like to know... "

    Hahahaha! Yeah, because Nintendo are a really impartial source for legal info on the subject. The actual law*, in the UK, explicitly permits you to own backups of your legally-owned software.


    *Specifically Section 50(A) of the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act.

  • globalisateur #48 6 months ago

    @Toothball From memory, the cpu of the dreamcast was 32 bit and the gpu 'kind of' 128 bit. Anyway it's not piracy if we already owned at some point (or still now) the real games, is it?

  • Beva78 #49 6 months ago

    @redcrayon
    And it couldn't possibly be about games that are owned by noone, or whose companies have gone bust or have turned into abandonware. Or are ALL classic games made by Nintendo, Sega, Ubisoft and EA?

  • Whitster #50 6 months ago

    I'm loving FSPe on my Xperia Play, made ISOs of all the old FF discs I have and am currently playing through FFIX on the commute in the morning.

  • Beva78 #51 6 months ago

    Also, if we ignore the piracy aspect of this, are there any other enthusiasts of anything who are quite as happy to let the history of their favorite passtime die as much as gamers do. It's so very sad.

    A lot of you would rather be the brave internet heroes standing up for the big corporation and booting the evil, evil pirate then actually caring about gaming on a larger scale, and trying to do anything at all to preserve it's history.

    Not everyone is Nintendo willing to sell you the same game over and over again, you know.

  • Bagpuss #52 6 months ago

    @LFace

    Dave's classics....what a great site that was, it was the place i downloaded my very first Mame Rom back in 1997, sigh, i remember the day when it was closed by the copyright police and they had to purge all their servers of the many Roms they had for download..

    Sad day...it was the first time you realised that people in the real world (with expensive lawyers) were starting to take notice of the scene.

  • Bigmac1910 #53 6 months ago

    I just wonder how many people here who use emulation, actually own the games before downloading the ROMs, especially the unique ones, which is not even possible to buy anywhere.

  • miiiguel #54 6 months ago

    Eurogamer endorsing piracy. How immature.

  • LFace #55 6 months ago

    @Bagpuss Yeah I got most of my first tastes of emulation from there. Got kicked out of the college IT room for downloading Speccy ROMs (of all things!). Used to love hearing about a new Emulator release that added support for some as-of-yet unsupported game, and especially if sound worked (System16 with Outrun/Space Harrier was my highlight!)

  • Beva78 #56 6 months ago

    @Bigmac1910 So, what are you actually saying? What is meant to happen to unique games that you can't buy anymore?

  • redcrayon #57 6 months ago

    @beva78



    Of course they aren't, but the paragraph on the SNES emulator is about games that are still owned and being sold by the copyright holder, combined with paragraph 2 mentioning people 'reacquainting themselves' OR ''discovering them with fresh eyes', ( it's the 'or' that's important) that section is talking about piracy of games by companies that have not gone bust.



    Would you agree with that?



    Emulating something you have never owned, that is still held and sold by the creator, IS piracy.



    I have no problem at all with emulation in the circumstances you mention, such as older games no longer available elsewhere or defended by their creators and thus only with specific sections of the article.
    Edited by redcrayon at 05/12/11 @ 13:43

  • ndbsolar #58 6 months ago

    Just for the record. There is no need to jailbreak your Iphone to use the IControlPad.
    Edited by ndbsolar at 05/12/11 @ 12:23

  • jontseng #59 6 months ago

    Hey is it just me or was there a section in the original article about where to download roms from that has just been taken out?

  • spekkeh #60 6 months ago

    @Bagpuss
    Hate it when the plebs move into the neighbourhood.
    Psh, I remember the time when I had internet AND the SNES was still very much alive and kicking.

  • spekkeh #61 6 months ago

    Playing Super Mario World is pretty horrible with the touchscreen of my SGS2 sadly (or rather nicely for Nintendo), and bringing a wiimote with you just to play retro games on the go is sort of defeating the purpose. (besides how do you position your phone in the train, on your lap? looks ridiculous and is too easily snatchable)

  • Code_R #62 6 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:50:34 12-12-2011

  • Cosmopolitan #63 6 months ago

    @ndbsolar I'm afraid you HAVE to jailbreak it to install any emulator on it.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #64 6 months ago

    It's getting a little tiring seeing people get on their moral high horses in these comments sections to be honest - especially in one about playing old games that we all used to love!

    Do me a favour, unless you've NEVER downloaded a ROM, played a copied Spectrum game on a C90 tape, copied an Album from a friend, downloaded an MP3 via Napster, recorded a song from the radio on your tape deck, recorded a film off the TV on your VCR, torrented an episode of a US TV Show, or used a copyrighted photo in your blog, PLEASE shut up now as you're nothing but a big fat hypocrite.

    I think that probably removes 99.9% of you.

  • Kropotkin #65 6 months ago

    This article is promoting piracy and cannot be condoned. Especially on a mainstream site like EuroGamer. I know I'm going to get a bunch of negatives for saying this, but the fact remains the copyright holders for games on the PSOne, Dreamcast and N64 are reselling these games via other channels. Therefore promoting means by which these games can be played for free is illegal.

  • schnide #66 6 months ago

    @SpaceMidget75

    I heard a good quote the other day which applies here.. we are all hypocrites in some way, but it's how much of a hyprocrite we are that matters. This applies in this case.

  • lucky_jim #67 6 months ago

    Dear god, there's enough self-righteous hysteria here to fill a Daily Mail comments thread.

  • Bigmac1910 #68 6 months ago

    @Beva78

    While I agree that if the game doesn't belong to a functioning company anymore it should be ok, but the article is talking about about SNES, SNK games, and saw an image of Ghosts n Goblins from Capcom, that's hardly companies that have disappeard and are not trading anymore.

    Very weird that EG would have an article like this tbh.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #69 6 months ago

    @schnide Can you explain that in the context of what I said? Honest question. It's a good quote and very true but I can't tell which side of the discussion you think it backs up?

    The hypocrisies I mentioned fit well within the level of downloading old game ROMS which Is why I've applied it here and not in a discussion about MW3 being on Piratebay for example.
    Edited by SpaceMidget75 at 05/12/11 @ 13:24

  • Der_tolle_Emil #70 6 months ago

    @SpaceMidget75: There is a difference. When I run my emulators at home I know that I am doing something that is morally very questionable. However, I don't run around and tell everybody how to do this and especially not where to get games.

    Emulation is fantastic, in fact I have a small PC hooked up to my TV with various USB converters to use original controllers to play old games - not that I would even need to justify my opinion by saying that I emulate games as well.

    The article is worrying because Nintendo has created a fantastic service to cater for all your retro needs in form of the virtual console. It shows absolutely no respect to tell everyone where to get games that are being sold right now - it's a fundamental business decision by Nintendo and this article is in no way different from telling anyone where to get full Wii games and how to get them running.

    In theory most of the games are still available somewhere - be it eBay or any flee market out there. The difference is that no publisher is making any money by second hand sales if someone is selling their collection and while that does not justify getting a rom instead at all it at least does not interfere with the current business model of certain companies.

    EG is somehwat 'official' and their opinion weighs a lot more than mine and they should act with a bit of responsibility - publishing an article with a manual on how to pirate games that are being sold is just wrong.

  • LazyDan #71 6 months ago

    @SpaceMidget75 The sneering 'moral high horse' argument is entirely missing the point. No one's crying for Nintendo's profits here, the point is Eurogamer's staggering ineptitude in deciding to run this article.

    There's a difference between abandonware and piracy. Of the two, abandonware is the only one that could be called a grey area. A game which is no longer officially sold anywhere and whose rights are no longer defended by their owners (normally in the case of defunct software houses or bedroom coders,) might still be illegal to download, but no one is there to chase it.

    Piracy is when the game is still available to buy or when the owners are still actively holding the rights.

    This article makes no distinction between the two and makes the lazy assumption that just because 'everyone' does it, it's okay to join in and pretend it isn't illegal. Morals don't come into it - Super Mario World for the SNES is literally available right now on the Wii Virtual Console, and Eurogamer itself is encouraging you to go and download it from dodgy sources which put your own devices at risk.

    It'd be like if Radio Times ran an article telling people how to torrent their favourite shows and where to get them from, it's mental.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #72 6 months ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil Well unless I missed it (or it's been removed) I didn't see anything in the article that tells you how to get ROMS - only the Emulators.

    Also, I'm neither defending or attacking EGs article, I'm moaning at people self-righteously banging on about retro games being piracy. We know it is, but it's on a level that really makes it hard for them to have never done anything similar.

    ...Again, it's wrong and we should all quietly reflect and feel bad that the ROM of Phantasy Star 2 I downloaded is wrong and against the law. I just don't need to be told it's bad by others.

    Finally, I agree that any article talking about games that are still widely available on download services is wrong!
    Edited by SpaceMidget75 at 05/12/11 @ 13:37

  • Ryze #73 6 months ago

    @Toothball Yeah - It's not a full blown 128bit architecture at all.

    It has a '128bit floating point bus', which isn't the same thing at all afaik.

    Still - it was all marketing bollocks anyway - just like Blast processing and teh powa of teh c3ll!

    Tech specs for retards.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #74 6 months ago

    "The article is worrying because Nintendo has created a fantastic service to cater for all your retro needs in form of the virtual console."

    Where "all your retro needs" means "an extremely limited, mindbogglingly tiny subset of your retro needs which would mean that if you wanted to play all your old favourites you'd need to wait about 30 years for them all to become available, except every five years a new console would come out which you had to pay for them again on, and you'd never ever reach a point where you had all the games you wanted on one machine".

    And where "fantastic" means "shit, comically overpriced and for no good reason at all offering only shitty outdated 50Hz ports".

    And where "worrying" means "excellent, and exactly the sort of thing any halfway-decent videogames site should be running regularly, rather than just rehashing press releases and bending over backwards to avoid even slightly upsetting any advertisers".

  • Toothball #75 6 months ago

    @OnlyMe

    Oh, it certainly sounds like an easy enough job to run emulators after this article. Although I don't want to stir the ROMs versus piracy argument, I generally don't bother emulating ROMs for the same reason I don't pirate games. No time to play them.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #76 6 months ago

    @SpaceMidget75: The caption of one of the images mentions it. I'm pretty sure it was also accompanied by a paragraph but the text seems to be missing - or maybe I am only imagining that text was there because of the image.

    It's simply not a very well written article. Retro gaming and emulation is an interesting topic but there is no in depth information about it at all. It's like the cool kid at school trying to tell you what you need to do in order to get a pirated game to run without really knowing anything about the subject. Not a single mention of the term abandonware for example - just a small warning that 'this rom downloading apps might be dubious'.

    It's disrespectful towards the current platform holders and publishers. People should know what they are getting into; Of course getting a 20 year old game is hardly the same as torrenting the latest Elder Scrolls but people should make up their minds about this topic on their own. At no point does EG go into detail about the (admittedly theoretical) consequences about emulation and downloading roms. Not deeming it worth of a mention basically says "do it, it's ok" and thus people think that EG are condoning it. All I am saying is that this topic needs to be treated with more respect. We all can finds tons of these mediocre articles about how to get roms and emulators running but nobody expected this kind of article on EG.

  • silversun #77 6 months ago

    @Rev.StuartCampbell i agree that pricing and avalibility is not great , i use emulator to run cd origonal game disks of certain games i own but im still happy there is a virtual console and similar things like gog (pc old games) even if the line up is not as great as it can be, however saying that i belive these services offer great value and line up of what they do have.

    raident silvergun came out on xbla , if i want buy it i know i can get it alot cheaper than trying find the disc version which is great.

    I picked up shining force 3 through ebay parts 2, 3 and PD that set me back a bit i already brought the pal version when it first came out in store.
    The more ways of getting the old classics the better.
    another thing to note is ive seen there a fairly decent remake scene around on the web at the moment that might be worth exploring a bit.

    edit- Currently on the second to last dungeon on link to past, vc console version
    Have noticed that the gameboy advance version is diferent from it a bit which was intresting.
    Edited by silversun at 05/12/11 @ 23:23

  • Ryze #78 6 months ago

    @Rev.StuartCampbell

    Exactly. The Virtual Console is nothing more than a seriously pathetic joke.

  • handsonhips101 #79 6 months ago

    I think those who are moaning here probably own iPhones.

    Been saying on here for the last year that android is a great gaming platform. I've completed mario 64 at work on the loo and played steets of rage on a aeroplane.

    Ok, I downloaded the roms but so what? I paid good money for these games in the past didn't I?

    surely if I pad £50 for mario 64 in 1997 I am entitled to play it now?

    I've a NES, SNES, Megadrive, GBA, N64, PS1 on my phone. its great.

  • Daryoon #80 6 months ago

    If Square would like to re-release Secret of Mana 2, fully translated, rather than continuously churn out the drivel they have recently, I would be more than happy to pay them some money.

    Sadly, my only "legal" recourse is to locate a copy of eBay - which will net them all of nothing - and play it through my old SNES converter, backed up by a 200-page FAQ/translation. Oh, and since the battery back-up would have died, I'll have to play it through in one sitting, without dying. Sounds like a pretty awesome experience to me. Definitely what the creators intended!

  • superflyninja #81 6 months ago

    In my mind there are two areas.
    1) Games sold by gog.com and Nintendo,Sony etc currently should be off limits. I dont agree with obtaining free roms of those games.
    2) Games for systems no longer attainable.
    This should be fine surely? Where the fcuk am I going to get an arcade cabinet to replay cadillacs and dinosaurs? Or I want to replay Charlie J Cool on the Amiga? Am I seriously supposed to go on ebay and get all these ancient systems, old tvs on which to play them etc? And THEN try and get a copy of the game I want on a functioning set of floppys? And how does (the possibly defunct) developer/publisher benefit? Retro gaming is unique in the world of media. A Charlie Chaplin film from 20s can be put on blueray,dvd, tv etc. games cant. I dont want future generations to be deprived of Zool for no good reason!
    Edited by superflyninja at 05/12/11 @ 15:23

  • arcam #82 6 months ago

    While the touchscreen isn't ideal and only the Xperia Play includes a joypad, any Android phone with a slide-out keyboard can do a nice job of doubling up as a controller.

  • schnide #83 6 months ago

    @SpaceMidget75

    Easily. This article tells you how to play Super Mario 64 and Zelda OoT without paying for them. Nintendo, as they have every right to, currently have these titles on sale for DS and 3DS respectively.

    Edit: And that's also not including the countless PS1 classics for sale on PSN that this article also tells you how to play for free.
    Edited by schnide at 05/12/11 @ 15:19

  • Bander #84 6 months ago

    Just wanted to say that I was running console/computer/arcade emulators on my phone back in 2003. Within days of buying the phone. No hacking/rooting/jailbreaking required. Full multitasking, so you could have a game running in the background (maybe to listen to a soundtest or something?) while using a different app. And the button layout worked wonderfully.

    N-Gage.

    As for the Dreamcast being 128-bit, consoles and smartphones have been stuck on 32-bit for ages, going by the definition that says a ZX Spectrum is 8-bit and an Amiga 500 is 16-bit. The PowerPC CPUs in the 360, PS3 and Wii are 32-bit.

  • Scoops #85 6 months ago

    It is a pity iOS isn't as well catered for without having to jailbreak. It would be nice playing some of the classics on an iCade or similar. At least there is growing support from devs releasing retro stuff (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger etc.) so you can play classics and feel self righteous too. Special mention to Elite Systems who have their Spectrum emulator in the app store along with a whole load of games you can buy for not very much - they appear to be branching out into other machines too. Not quite the same as open emulation as shown on Android but it is better than nothing...

  • schnide #86 6 months ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil
    @SpaceMidget75

    The article when first posted DID have a section explaining what ROMs were and where to get them.

    Edit: "Apps like Emulator ROMs may be legally dubious, but they make populating your phone's memory with classic games so much easier."

    Which surely can't be seen in any other light than EG recognising this may not be legal but they're still promoting it anyway for the benefits to the individual they give?
    Edited by schnide at 05/12/11 @ 15:35

  • arcam #87 6 months ago

    People recommending you buy them from eBay instead should realise that this is often illegal too according to the game's licence agreements.

    So either stick to the law if want to make an argument based on that, or make a moral decision based on your own choices.

  • AgeOfChaos #88 6 months ago

    On steam:

    Sonic 1 - £3.99
    Sonic 2 - £3.99

    Fuck off

  • TruSmiles #89 6 months ago

    I have emulated copies of my favourite SEGA Saturn games that I do actually own, but I keep the copy so I don't wear out the actual game disc, some of which are showing their age now. I also have emulated versions of retro games which were never translated or released in this country; I don't physically own them, but with little chance of these ever being re-released, I'd say that's fair.

    If SEGA ever wanted to re-release Shining Force 3: Scenario 2 & 3 for instance, I would be all over that. But since they probably won't, I'm happy to emulate.

  • bad09 #90 6 months ago

    "This article tells you how to play Super Mario 64 and Zelda OoT without paying for them"

    No it didn't you are actually reading "OMG STEALING!!" from it yourself. It told you how play them on android and that you'll need a ROM version of the game and even mentioned the greyness of the area and the danger of publishers not continuing official retro releases if you chose to not actually pay up for the small amount of titles already being re-sold.


    Why do you care so much anyway? 90% of the stuff on emulators you could never buy again anyway so you are getting all shirty over nothing. It's nice a very limited selction of popular old titles have been able to earn some money for their makers again but that selection is very limited and there is a lot more out there that would be lost forever were if not for emulation and articles like this promoting it.

  • Bander #91 6 months ago

    @TruSmiles On the subject of Sega games that remained Japan-only, has there been any news on Monster World IV's appearance on XBLA, PSN and Virtual Console? ESRB, PEGI etc. rated the game for release over half a year ago.

  • johnson81 #92 6 months ago

    I was actually surprised an article like this was greenlighted. The law concerning emulation is a grey area at best. I'm all for copyright holders having a service like the Virtual Console etc but what annoys me about these services it that they have thousands of games available and only release a small percentage of these.

    The fact is, even if a Rom is available for legitimately for a couple of quid, if someone can get it free they will. Just look at jailbroken Iphones. People at work have them and they're full of pirated games, some of these are only 0.69p and their still to tight to pay for them.

  • schnide #93 6 months ago

    @bad09

    Er, yes it did.

    You literally cannot play these things without the roms, and even if the original post didn't have a section on finding the roms, which it did, it's still promoting the fact you can find them.

    If you're only referring to 10% of what can be played via emulation as still being commercially viable then that's still an amount of money not going to the license holder. You might not like the fact they own it, or what they do with it, but unfortunately for you that's not your call to make.

    "..there is a lot more out there that would be lost forever were if not for emulation and articles like this promoting it."

    Lost forever? What are you, a games historian? If that's what this article was about, it never have needed mention a LOT of games which are still commercially viable and relevant. That's the issue I have with it, and that's what I've said the entire time.

  • walidb123 #94 6 months ago

    great article. all the poncy hypocrites can complain about the article "condoning piracy" but that's BS. would not mentioning that murders happen cause them to suddenly stop?

    which normal person hasn't downloaded an album or a movie or a few roms in their life and then not been influenced to buy something related to it because they realised it was good enough to own a copy? at the end of the day because we're clearly talking about 'retro' games there is no monetary loss for companies because they've stopped bothering at least a decade ago.

  • rudedudejude #95 6 months ago

    Just don't download anything, ever. There's a chance it might be illegal or break someone's licensing agreement or some such shit, having absolutely no effect on the universe whatsoever.

    Some of you lot need to chill the fuck out, maybe get laid or something. How do you sleep at night with these worries of piracy?

    Companies! Get your shit together and sell your products in a decent format in one centralised area, where I can transfer between phone, pc, laptop, yada yada and I'll pay you the equivalent of those games worth in new money.

    /dons pirate hat

    /sails pirate ship into the seas of rom, dodging the doo-gooder blighters with their corporate capitalism cannons as they copy their friends music in dark rooms when no-one is watching

  • bad09 #96 6 months ago

    @schnide

    Again it said you needed a ROM version of the game it said nothing of playing games for free. ROMs are available for free but come on we all know what was implied, sure he didn't say "make sure you buy what you use if you can" but that's a given.

    I'm not talking commercially viable I'm talking 90% games that will never get that chance to earn more money, sure SOME are re-released but like the Rev says what am I gonna do wait 30 years until I hopefully get most of what I'd want to replay? A lot of them the companies don't even exist anymore. If the company is not around, does not want to sell it, can't sell it, whatever the reason it's not offered why shouldn't people be able to enjoy it? Why should they be left to be forgotten WHO is actually hurt by people playing something they can't buy???

    Like I said it's really good that a lucky few titles are now able to earn a little money for people but they are only a small amount of titles and to be honest jumping up and down over "piracy" of decades old games just because a very few of them are offered over online networks now seems incredibly pointless to me.

    "Lost forever? What are you, a games historian?"

    Well yeah I am I guess. I'm a gamer I've always paid my way and as a gamer passionate about games I see emulation and the availablity we see today as a gift to gamers and the industry. We have a free totally interactive museum of gamings entire back catalogue most of which you can no longer buy, how as a gamer can you not be in awe of that and want to keep it???.

    Personally as a gamer I see that as a wonderful gift that should be embraced, not taken for granted now they can resell at least some of these titles thanks to some companies cottoning on people like old games, but still a gift.
    Edited by bad09 at 05/12/11 @ 17:07

  • schnide #97 6 months ago

    @bad09

    In that case then, let me be direct:

    What the hell are you directing anything at me for?

    Because my point in every single post has been that this article is telling people how to pirate games which are commercially available.

  • bad09 #98 6 months ago

    @schnide

    I pulled you up on "telling people how to play for free", the article mentioned the grey area of some emulated software being resold, it made no mention of playing for free and again warned of the consequence of "playing for free", you read the article and are taking the modern retail piracy and trying to force it into decades old games being resold against being played on emulators. They are not selling ROMS to use on android, PC whatever, so what's your problem?

    Jumping up and down because, for example, ninty decide to resell Mario 64 on their own network or SEGA release a Sonic collection is pointless, it's great that they looked at emulation and tried to "emulate" it for new revenue but, as Adam_T says they are not really selling what emulators want a decent format that's movable for that you need ROMs.

  • schnide #99 6 months ago

    @bad09

    Are you trolling for fun?

    You can currently buy Super Mario 64 for DS, or Zelda OoT for 3DS. Nintendo are selling those games as a portable option as is their right to do whatever they want with those games.

    You can currently buy a large number of PS1 classics which are playable on PSP. Sony are selling those games as a portable option as is their right to do whatever they want with those games.

    This article tells you how to do all those things, at zero cost, on your phone. Portably. Thus negating the need to pay Nintendo or Sony a single penny.

    Do I have to make this any clearer?

    And if I do, why don't you ask EG why they removed the paragraph on ROMs when even they realised how inappropriate it might seem?

    [Edit: Also add Chrono Trigger (albeit from Square Enix) and Star Fox (albeit without the 3D) to that list. There's two more games available at retail that EG are showing you how to play for free.]
    Edited by schnide at 05/12/11 @ 18:03

  • suicida #100 6 months ago

    Excellent article, more of this please EG

  • suicida #101 6 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:50:34 12-12-2011

  • JinTypeNoir #102 6 months ago

    You can get so many games off of the retro services these days, that if you can't find one on one of them, then its most likely more off the beaten path somehow. If you simply must play a game that would have jump through ridiculous hoops to get to and isn't likely to be making anyone any money, I'm all for the convenience that emulation allows. Especially when it comes to translating works the companies themselves no longer have any interest in doing so a greater part of the world can experience them.

    However, stuff like Mario, Zelda, Sonic or Chrono Trigger is ridiculous. In many cases, there are quite a few legit options to getting your hands on them legally. So emulating them really does amount to something close to theft. The idea is not that we must protect the profits of nebulous companies who couldn't care less about our lives, but more about if we send the right messages to them. Providing healthy revenue streams for retro games widens the market, increases competition and ensures that not only will we get them in official channels in better conditions, but that someone in those companies knows there are gamers who appreciate older styles of gameplay and older franchises, giving us more of a chance for retro revivals or older-style games.

    I'm not one of those people who thinks you have "no right" to take something because you find the Virtual Console or PSN too expensive or whatever, I just think you're a douche who will be served a sort of gamer kind of karma sooner or later and I'll laugh in your face because you will have deserved it.

  • AOFanboi #103 6 months ago

    Android not only let you pirate these ROMs but also sideload "paid" apps from the marketplace that have been stripped of the annoying DRM stuff so you can get to enjoy more modern software for free as well.

    On iOS only jailbreakers get to enjoy that free lunch.

    This has been a public service announcement from the freeloading leeches on developers worldwide.

  • AgeOfChaos #104 6 months ago

    @JinTypeNoir

    So just who or what is this force in existence that mete's out "gamer kind of karma"?

    If anything, emulation is karma for the publishers who have been ripping people off.

  • PaulieWaulie #105 6 months ago

    Post deleted at 14:23:40 06-01-2012

  • Caimbeul #106 6 months ago

    does it really matter when ALL touch screen only devices are utter shit for proper games like these? only the SE playstation phone would work.

  • natureboy #107 6 months ago

    I had a good snes emulator but it was pulled out of the market. During my Snes days i rarely had lots of games at any one time and emulation brings back the memories

  • jontseng #108 6 months ago

    Hmmm. A quick thought experiment.

    Eurogamer runs a how-to guide on torrenting on the PC as the biggest article on their front page. The article explains how to access torrents, which clients to use and suggests a particular app (lets say The Piratebay Official App If They Ever Had One) as particularly good one to use.

    Now torrenting is perfectly legal. I'm sure its perfectly fine to Torrent MW3 in order to have it as your legally entitled backup. In fact I'm sure the majority of people torrenting multiple episodes of the West Wing at this moment have the complete set of box sets currently sitting right by their PC.

    But, c'mon guys, none of us are stupid. Do you really think no one would bat an eyelid if that article was the biggest thing on the homepage nearly a day after publication???

  • jontseng #109 6 months ago

    PS part of this issue on this thread is that people are confusing multiple debates. A quick glance suggests a couple of obvious ones:

    ** 1) Whether Eurogamer, a respected and responsible industry publication were smart to publish this as their biggest article when gaming companies pay the bills (face facts happy readers, all this wonderful content doesn't pay for itself).
    ** 2) Why Eurogamer took the section about how to download ROMs out of the article, without leaving any trace or explanation that the article had been censored. Was this an acknowledgement it was wrong to publish the article and was pressure from advertisers involved (Gerstmanngate??)
    ** 3) Whether downloading of ROMs is technical legal (entitled backup) or not.
    ** 4) Whether downloading of ROMs is morally justified if the games are still being sold by their original publishers.
    ** 5) Whether downloading of ROMs is morally justified if the games are still being sold by their original publishers. (Abandonware)

    Now generally when people have tried to call our Eurogamer on 1), 2) and possibly 3) the response has been to call posters a ponce or self righteous and divert the argument to 4) or 5). I think that diverts from a number of serious debates.

    And lets be clear piracy is a big issue. You wanna know why PC gaming has shrivelled? Why no games being developed remotely exploit cutting edge graphics hardware any more? Why a five your old game (Crysis) still has the best graphics current available? Why your local game store has one shelf of tatty PC games (if that) and fifteen shelves of shiny console exclusives? Why PCZone and a bunch of other great magazines have gone the way of the dodo?

    This isn't just some enthusiasts pissing about trying to run Castlevania. An entire part of the industry has been wiped out over the last five years right in front of our eyes. For guys who grew up with Wing Commander or Flight Simulator or Ultima or Kings Quest or any number of great PC franchises its heart breaking, and it should be heart breaking for anyone who cares about gaming.

    So its not a high horse, it's just a crying shame.

  • miiiguel #110 6 months ago

    Funny. To be honest I don't give a shit if you pirate or not, but don't try to fool yourselfs calling others riders of the high horses, and it's old, and the IP owners should be nicer, and whatnot.

  • matty_matt_mattmatt #111 6 months ago

    this has inspired me to jailbreak my iphone, Ive had my iphone a year and still havent bought a single app so either way this wont effect anyone besides me and my enjoyment

  • Farstarbuck #112 6 months ago

    At a time where piracy is at an all time high due to high speed Internet and the term 'piracy' has become intertwined with the term 'downloading' it's no wonder most people going online now think its ok to 'download' whatever they want, however they want. Little kids, grand parents, mothers and fathers think its ok cause really they don't know better and it's so readily available.

    The games industry is feeling the pinch from piracy and at a time where the games industry should be united we have Eurogamer spreading the word about roms and emulators on smartphones? Is this helping the games industry? The argument that they are old games doesnt make it any more correct, should I assume that because I purchased Abbey Road on vinyl I'm therefore entitled to download it digitally illegally cause it was a long time ago?

    Before the likes of Nintendo came out with the Virtual Console there was no real way other than emulators and roms to play the golden greats. But surely now that it's been established for a few years the need to rip off game developers is over? Surely EG should be encouraging the use of this provided service instead of glorifying a smart phone OS that can do further damage to the games industry?

    Beggars belief when I see articles like this.

  • PaulieWaulie #113 6 months ago

    Post deleted at 14:23:40 06-01-2012

  • Farstarbuck #114 6 months ago

    @PaulieWaulie

    Oh really?

    Well I guess it's alright then.

  • sega #115 6 months ago

    I'm really surprised there are so many people against emulation on here. Video games must have the shortest shelf life of any media - it's ridiculous. A game from just a couple of years ago can be near impossible to find. I don't condone piracy, but without emulation, some earlier tape based games will have been lost forever by now.

    We do have the likes of the virtual console but it's just a tiny fraction of the games of the past. In other cases, some games are made available so often that we have bought them numerous times each generation. How many times have you bought Sonic The Hedgehog? Me personally: Sega Megadrive, Sega Saturn (Sonic Jam), Sega Dreamcast (Sega Smash Pack), Nintendo GameCube (Sonic Mega Collection), Nintendo DS, Sonic for mobile phones, Wii (virtual console), PC (Megadrive collection). That's EIGHT times I've bought that game that I can remember - there might be more. I've already bought it for two handheld devices but now I'd have to buy it again if I want to play it on the move. Fortunately the law is being changed to give more freedom to transfer media from one device to the other - very soon we wont have to buy the same game again every time we buy a new phone.

    Another point - this site can report on anything it damn well pleases, especially a subject related to games. I don't want them to just report on the dull games that occupy the shelves of a Game store - I want to know about emulation, piracy, importing, online, retro etc as much as new games. If it's an illegal matter or not I don't care - I'm my own person with my own morals and I don't want a website hiding truths from me then telling me "we can't talk about that incase you go and do it". Well done Eurogamer - more articles like this please.

  • Beva78 #116 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck First of all: "piracy is at an all time high"? You know this how exactly? Do you have any figures or statistics to back up this statement?

    Second of all, have you ever in your life bought a game second-hand? If you have then you aren't "helping the games industry", if you havn't then more power to you, but you could still explain how that is any different to downloading a rom.

    Thirdly, let's say you purchase Abbey Road on a cd today, if you then copy the cd to your mp3 player/iphone are you also stealing, I'm not passing a judgment, just want to know your opinion.
    It's not a question of it being old. I must have bought Final Fantasy 6 three times so far, on the SNES (catridge broke), on the PS1 (cd, wear and tear) and on the PSN (the exact same game as the PS1 game). How many more times do I have to buy it untill it's ok for me to play it on an emulator, five more times, ten more times, never?

    Yes, there is a thing called Virtual Console, and PSN and XBLA and GoG and Steam, and what have you. How many games of the total amount of games ever made are provided by that service? How many abandoned games made by now defunced companies can I buy off Nintendo? We can push this even further if you want, how much money do you think the developers of Sanitarium are getting from the GoG sales (and I love GoG)? If I buy something of GoG, I'm not "helping" the games industry directly, I'm "helping" the retail industry.

    As much as you want to point the finger at the dirty pirate, you can not equal the emulator dev with the pirate. It is not, and never will be the same thing. In fact, the emulator maker cares FAR more about preserving the "games industry" then Nintendo does. If this isn't something you care about then that is fine, but do try to at least think about what it is you are writing.

    Also, lastly, when exactly did PaulieWaulie say pirating games is fine?

  • TONYgr #117 6 months ago

    I downloaded SNES9X EX along with sfalpha 2 and super mario kart.The controls on the touchscreen are awfull.I dont understand how they play games on touhcscreen devises.That's why we always need dedicated handheld consoles(vita,3ds etc.).

  • superflyninja #118 6 months ago

    @jontseng of course this debate is made up of multiple points.Yet you lump it all into the same point at the end, basically emulators/piracy is bad mmmmkay But very few people on here disagree that downloading for example mario64 is an okay thing to do as it is currently on sale. I have jailbroken iTouch. I bought the relrelease of Broken Sword(which i own on PS1 and PC) to show support for it (plus it had shiny new hd graphics).I have scmummvm versions of monkey islands 1+2 yet bought them again(having previously bought amiga 600 versions) on release for iTouch and xbox. Basically if a dev rereleases a classic game that I want to play on current hardware Ill buy it to encourage more Hd remasters etc. But for games that will never see the light of day then why not use roms?
    Give me one good reason why these games should be let fade from memory and die?
    Edited by superflyninja at 06/12/11 @ 10:47

  • redcrayon #119 6 months ago

    @sega

    Can we not polarise the discussion into emulation=good/bad, I've bought sonic/mario at least a couple of times too, but not everyone is in their thirties and has spent a couple of decades buying games.

    Do you think it's fair for people to emulate games that they have never owned or paid for, and are still sold on download services by the original developer? That's what the article is suggesting in it's second para. It's not about emulation=piracy, sure, you want backups of stuff you've paid for, or to try old stuff you cant get elsewhere, that seems fair enough. It's when it's used to get games for free that someone has never owned, and are still sold by the creators on various services online, that I think it takes the piss.

    Yes, only a fraction of games are available for download on PSN/VC etc. But perhaps the article should have mentioned games that are a pain in the arse to find like Secret of Mana 2 rather than blatantly putting an image of Super Mario Kart up to be 'discovered with fresh eyes'.

  • Sniper_007 #120 6 months ago

    I'd love to see a similar guide for the PSP, but with the added complications of hacking firmware, pandora batteries (whatever they are) I think it's a legal area which will never be explored here?

  • Gibroon #121 6 months ago

    I got an Xperia Play earlier this year and have been loving it so far. Although I have dabbled in a few retro games, I much prefer playing the newer games that are out there, some of which cost peanuts or are free.

    I'm currently playing Galaxy of Fire 2 which is free to play and a more than adequate Elite clone. Slick graphics, nice menus, blueprints to manufacture. wingmen to fly with etc. Retro is nice but there is a lot of new stuff which is fresher and more intriguing imo.

  • porkface Verified Features Editor, Eurogamer Network #122 6 months ago

    I was the one who was ultimately responsible for commissioning this piece, as well as the one who edited out the offending section, so I wanted to clear things up/offer an explanation.

    There was a paragraph in the original version of the article that linked to ROM sites, and it did find its way to the site. This clashes with our forum policy whereby we delete links to ROM sites, and hence it was taken down a few minutes after publication - it was our own call, and had nothing to do with outside pressures whatsoever. I neglected to note the changes on the site as it happened so soon after the piece was published, but I realize that this was wrong - I should have flagged it up as soon as the edit was made, and for that I apologise.

    Emulation is obviously a huge grey area on which there are a lot of strong and hugely contrasting feelings - as the reaction to this piece has proved. I'm not entirely for it or entirely against it, but as long as gaming back catalogues are so far out of reach for technical reasons or just through lack of availability, it's an inevitable part of gaming. And it's important to note that the emulation scene does invaluable work preserving areas of gaming that publishers don't support.

    It's not ideal, but it's what we're stuck with at the moment - and hence I felt this guide was a worthy and useful piece to have on the site for those who wish to pursue emulation on their Android phones.

  • silversun #123 6 months ago

    If anything to be said this topic got good debate, im all for keeping retro title alive and hope they can be around by what ever means they can but i have similar feelings on this topic that i neither agaisnt or for it , i just want see retro game still around in 20 years time though.

  • IvorB #124 6 months ago

    Wait... People actually carry around a controller to play emulated games on a phone. You does this? Will anyone own up to this?

    Thanks to this article I have finally got round to googling emulating Planescape: Tormet on Android. Apparently it can be done quite easily with an app from the market, a legal copy and a PC. So thanks for that... I guess. I agree with earlier poster that this information should not be censored. Although a discussion of legal implications should be included for those not clued up. It's bad enough big game publishers have glaring, game-breaking technical issues censored from reviews of their products. I'm sure they would love removal of any content that might lead to piracy. Let's not give them that please.

  • Farstarbuck #125 6 months ago

    @Beva78

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/15627247

    This and that fact that more pcs have been sold over the last five years have contributed to more piracy around the world. Not just the UK.

    No I don't buy second hand games.

    Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. You feel you are entitled to do as you wish when it comes to downloading games. In what you say you feel if the game developers don't make the games you want available or at a cost suitable to you, you feel you are entitled to steal them. This is where we disagree. It is absolutely at their discretion that we are able to play these games and at whatever cost they see fit.

    No buying Abbey Road on cd and transferring to pc making an mp3 is not the same thing. That's a perfectly legal way of sharing the music you purchased with other devices you own. I made the example of vinyl because it represents the out of date format that we can compare with carts and roms. It's two different things! Just because you bought Sonic the hedgehog once moons ago doesn't give you the right to have it now for free. No idea where that logic comes from.

    Stealing is stealing. Doesn't matter how you dress it up or try and justify.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #126 6 months ago

    "Stealing is stealing."

    Yes it is. Luckily piracy isn't stealing, so that's fine.

  • superflyninja #127 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck explain how your example of music is doesnt compare to games?
    You buy a legal copy of music/game. You make a copy of music/game and use music/game on a device that your original purchase was not intended for.

  • jonno394 #128 6 months ago

    @Rev.StuartCampbell

    Nope it's not stealing, it's just obtaining something that you want for nothing while otehrs pay for it.

    Once gaming goes fully digital distribution though and there are no hard copies of a game how far will the argument that "i'm not stealing, it's just copying" go?

  • DarthMartious #129 6 months ago

    Are people really suggesting that emulation is crippling the industry? Emulation has been a terrific boon to the industry! Without it retro-gaming wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now and nor would any of the current publishing houses be putting out retro-compilations that they can charge for.

    Emulation = popular = new market = profit!

  • Der_tolle_Emil #130 6 months ago

    @DarthMartious: Are people really suggesting that emulation is crippling the industry? Emulation has been a terrific boon to the industry! Without it retro-gaming wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now and nor would any of the current publishing houses be putting out retro-compilations that they can charge for.

    Emulation = popular = new market = profit!

    Did you even think a second about what you just posted? Emulating the games that are currently being sold as retro compilations is the exact opposite of your " = profit" equation.

  • DarthMartious #131 6 months ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil

    Yes I did. The market wouldn't exist without emulation and therefore no company would be making any profit from old IP. Emulation created that new market.

  • Beva78 #132 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck
    Yeah, so thank you for that link?
    It wasn't very informative, and didn't have any evidence that points to anything.
    Here is one that took me 2 seconds to find:
    http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/02/pc-gaming-sector-enjoyed-significant-revenue-growth-in-2010-the/

    Here is another one, apparently we are all fucked:
    http://www.latest-ufo-sightings.net/2011/01/3-giant-spaceships-near-pluto-will.html

    This discussion would be so much easier if you actually argued against what I wrote instead of imagining arguments on your own aand then having a monologue. I wrote that I feel I was entitled to steal them where exactly?

    Second hand gaming is not illegal, this we know for a fact. The question wasn't whether you do it or not, but what you think about second hand gaming.

    Also, I never once mentioned Sonic, I talked about Final Fantasy 6, and as much as I hate to repeat myself you are forcing me. I have bought it THREE times so far. Once on catridge (now broken), once on PS1 (also broken) and once on PSN (NOT broken).

    If I choose to play it on something other then the ps3, like a PC I am doing something that is opposite of you transfering your cd to an mp3 player?

    I mean, don't you care about how Discman is doing? Why don't you shell out on the mp3's to go with your new device? Why are you STEALING music in the same way I stole Final Fantasy 6? Stealing is stealing, no?

  • redcrayon #133 6 months ago

    @Beva

    Can you answer my earlier question-

    If you had

    A) never owned a particular game and
    B) it was easily available to buy legit from one or more download services

    Would you still say it was fine to download a Rom and emulate it?

  • AOFanboi #134 6 months ago

    @DarthMartious, there are two kinds of emulation: Emulation where the publishers sell their game to the person wanting to play it, and emulation where the person wanting to play it just downloads the game for free.

    They are not equal. In the latter case only the emulator sellers make money, but you might as well pirate the emulator at that point...

  • Beva78 #135 6 months ago

    @redcrayon Um, my answer to that question is that I don't really care. I guess you want me to define your example? If you do, then I would call what you described piracy. I don't personally do it, but neither do I want to burn pirates on a stake, mostly as the effect of piracy on actual sales is unknown and unresearched.

    Thing is, this article is NOT about piracy, and talking about it is not relevant. Emulation is the topic.

  • jontseng #136 6 months ago

    Porkface, many thanks for taking the time to put up that explanation. It is much appreciated. Very much appreciate Eurogamer, and the new look. J

  • DarthMartious #137 6 months ago

    @AOFanboi Most emulators are free/open source projects. About the only two I know of that aren't are Magic Engine, but it's cheap as chips anyway, and Kega Fusion which costs no money, but is closed source.

    Regardless of all that, the point being made is that the popularity of emulation was the main reason that the likes of Sega, Nintendo, Capcom, SNK et al actually release retro compilations. They saw a new market for some old products and capitalised (some, it must be said, in a more value-added way than others).

  • Farstarbuck #138 6 months ago

    @Beva78

    Emulation=using software that is patented and copyright protected under law without permission of the developer or publishing company to do so.

    Piracy :

    a. Robbery committed at sea.
    b. A similar act of robbery, as the hijacking of an airplane.
    2. The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy.


    Hmmm. Yeah it's piracy.

    Stop kidding yourself luv.

  • redcrayon #139 6 months ago

    @beva78
    Fair enough. I still think the article is encouraging piracy at the end of para 2, and that combined with the MK example within the article is exactly the same as the example I gave you, but we'll have to agree to differ there.



    Agree with you about emulation on the whole though- if it allows people to play their old games that have been cast aside as the cartridge batteries and consoles have died, then it's a good thing, and if the article helps them do just that, fine. Maybe I've got a bit caught up with one small part of the piece, it just jars with me as it renders the legitimate defences of 'playing my old stuff' or 'backups' useless, which won't exactly help the case for emulation in the future.
    Edited by redcrayon at 06/12/11 @ 20:02

  • redcrayon #140 6 months ago

    Thanks for the answer by the way. Also agree about effects of piracy being unknown and that's another discussion etc.

  • Beva78 #141 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck Are you actually saying these words? Just a few posts ago you agreed to pirating your own CD's on an MP3 player by your definition. Either participate or don't, but stop doing the broken record thing, it's tiring.

    If I PLAY MY OWN GAME THAT I BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY AND STILL OWN, AND IT IS IN MY POSETION AND THEN I USE AN EMULATOR FOR ENHANCED GRAPHICS OR TO BE ABLE TO PLAY IT ON THE GO I AM A PIRATE?

    I used caps so you can pay attention to the important bit, answer that or stop talking to me directly.

    Oh, and edit

    @redcrayon

    Yeah, fair play. I'm all for discussion, and I don't think we need to agree on everything. I do see where you are comming from I just don't view it in quite the same way.

    I would have answered sooner but I guess I missed your reply the first time.
    Edited by Beva78 at 06/12/11 @ 21:06

  • Farstarbuck #142 6 months ago

    @Beva78

    By my definition putting my CD's onto a computer and then sharing on an MP3 player is legal, why? Because the music industry says it is.

    I'm glad you used caps to really draw attention to all the holes in your logic. You don't own the games in question and also have no means to play them otherwise why would you use emulators and roms? Also just because you bought something once on one format doesn't give you the right to steal it by other means on another.

    To answer an earlier question, Second hand gaming benefits only the game shops and at the moment gives nothing back to the developers. Only time will tell where this leads. I don't think it really is fair to the people who make games that they lose out on second hand sales. Its the users right to sell their game, as it is theirs. However, there has to be a way to ensure something goes back to the developers.

  • DarthMartious #143 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck However, there has to be a way to ensure something goes back to the developers.

    How much money do you think goes back to the developers of twenty-year-old games released as retro compilations? I'm talking about all the artists, programmers, musicians, testers, QA engineers etc. here - you know, the developers.

    I'll tell you: precisely none. A big fat zero. Nadda. All those people who developed the game get nothing extra, no matter how many times it is re-released. So what do they lose if people chose to emulate? Nothing.

    Video games are unlike music, film, literature or anything else an individual can claim copyright to. The people who actually make them are generally salaried and the vast proportion of the profits goes to the publisher. All your policy of sending more more to these publishing houses would do is make these risk-averse, sequel churning corporations spew more crap out, all the while making them richer on the proceeds of the talents and efforts of others.

    So, yeah. I have a massive collection of ROMS, I play them and I sleep easily at night in the full knowledge that I've cheated nobody because the people who made those games wouldn't have benefited either way. Please do go on throwing your money at these corporations; you certainly seem to think they deserve it. But don't for one second think you're actually helping to stimulate innovation in a turgid industry, because you're not.

  • Beva78 #144 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck I used the caps in the vain hope that you would actually read what I wrote.

    Hint, this was it: "If I PLAY MY OWN GAME THAT I BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY AND STILL OWN, AND IT IS IN MY POSETION AND THEN I USE AN EMULATOR FOR ENHANCED GRAPHICS OR TO BE ABLE TO PLAY IT ON THE GO"

    This is what you said: "You don't own the games in question and also have no means to play them otherwise why would you use emulators and roms?"

    So, let's start here, shall we?

    "You don't own the game in question" I do, I own it three times over, in fact, one still functional.

    "why would you use emulators and roms?" For enhanced graphics or the ability to play them on the go, or just the ability to actually play them. I never said I downloaded a rom either, this is something you assumed, based on nothing at all. Here are a few more examples for you to ignore, I own a copy of Shadow of the Colossus and a PS2 to play it on, yet I can choose to play it on an emulator for higher resolution and a steady framerate. I own a copy of The Day of the Tentacle, I have to play it on Dosbox (an emulator omgwtf) so I can actually play it at all on the very system it was made for. I could go on forever, but I guess you will just ignore that, regardless the point is that emulation and piracy are NOT the same thing.

    You said: "By my definition putting my CD's onto a computer and then sharing on an MP3 player is legal, why? Because the music industry says it is."

    No, you are wrong, the music industry has no say in this, they do not have the power to decide what you can do with the goods that you have purchased at all, this is a question of the consumer law and it greatly outweighs anything any industry has to say or what it wants to happen.

    The reason why gaming is different is because the greedy subhuman scum that makes up the publisher/lobby side of the gaming industry want to define games as service thus rendering many of the rights you should have useless, hopefully that is going to change in the near future, in the EU at least:
    http://www.osnews.com/story/24500/Software_Industry_Lobbies_Against_EU_Consumer_Rights_Laws
    and:
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=REPORT&reference=A7-2011-0038&language=EN

    Also, it's not just a question of second hand sales, many distributors, like GoG.com or even Steam will never pay any of the cash you pay to the people actually involved in making the game. If you honestly want the developers to get as much as possible you should stick to only buying indie games from the indie developers directly.

    Lastly, you have AS MUCH idea about the effect piracy has on the gaming industry as I do, which is to say almost none at all. You can only guess and so can I, so here is one guess to muddie that polarisation thing everyone has about piracy. The PS1 was the first console that was extreamly easy to modify and use for pirating. It was also a huge success basically draging the gaming industry into the mainstream making it the financial bahamut that it now is. Think on that.

  • superflyninja #145 6 months ago

    @Farstarbuck wow. you leveled up your trolling skills.Im impressed.