New Xbox & PlayStation 4: What to Expect

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 20 July, 2011

Crytek UK, Epic and more on what the next generation holds.

Video game graphics achieved using the DirectX 11 standard provide a solid indication of the visual power of the next Xbox and PlayStation, Eurogamer has been told.

Eurogamer has also been told that visuals on a par with Hollywood blockbuster movie Avatar are a genuine possibility on the next generation of consoles - a claim first made by graphics technology company AMD and now backed up by video game developers.

As part of an investigation into the next generation of home consoles, Eurogamer has learnt from developers what gamers can expect from the next Xbox and the PlayStation 4.

"It's going to depend a lot on when Sony and Microsoft decide is the right moment to announce and launch things," Crytek UK principal programmer Pete Hall tells Eurogamer, "but it does feel at the moment that the hardware we get in next generation consoles will be about the sort of level that DX11 is at - that's where it currently looks like it's going."

Crytek, creator of game engine CryEngine 3, recently added DirectX 11 support to the PC version of first-person shooter Crysis 2, prompting some suggestions that it makes the sci-fi first-person shooter look so good that it provides a glimpse into the next generation.

But Crytek, rumoured to be making TimeSplitters 4 for Microsoft and Sony's next consoles, reckons better visuals are possible.

"The DX11 support for Crysis 2 was planned quite early on, but while it was being implemented, we were discovering things about the production methods we'd use," Mark Tully, Crytek lead programmer, adds, "If we'd done it slightly differently, we could have achieved even higher results. Those learnings will be going into future Crytek projects. The authoring processes will be able to still target the consoles, but be able to produce even higher results on DX11 than what we were able to achieve with Crysis 2.

"That in itself is exciting."

Earlier this year Epic released the Samaritan tech demo - a real-time video designed to provide a glimpse into what the next generation of consoles will be capable of. But is Samaritan a realistic expectation for the next-generation? Will we really see graphics on that level? Mark Rein, co-founder of Gears of War and Unreal Engine maker Epic Games, says the answer is a definite yes.

"It is already possible on PCs today albeit very high end ones," he tells Eurogamer. "Broadly-speaking tomorrow's console is today's high end PC, whose level of technology eventually trickles down to affordable PCs, set-top boxes and mobile devices as well. So it makes sense that this is the kind of thing the next generation of consoles could power. It is just a question of timing."

And, according to Rein, Direct X 11 is a good guideline as to what gamers will see from the next generation.

Samaritan debuted at GDC this year. Epic is yet to decide whether it will spawn a game.

"Yes I think there is a feature set there that provides the ability to make clearly-discernible visual improvements over what can be done on today's consoles. Samaritan was an early attempt to demonstrate that," he says.

"As a content developer we'll get better at exploiting these features over time and, as a technology provider, we'll continue to deliver tools and technology that helps our licensees to do the same. In the mean time we've already shipped Samaritan's DX11 feature set in the latest Unreal Engine 3."

"Where the PCs are now compared to what [Sony and Microsoft] are going to do, I assume will be close," Hall says. This week AMD, which is rumoured to be providing the graphics technology powering the next Xbox, said Microsoft's next home console will be so powerful it will be capable of reproducing graphics on a par with James Cameron's computer generated movie blockbuster Avatar.

Many baulked at the suggestion, but Crytek believes it may be possible on future consoles. "One of our rendering guys was looking at that article and was saying he reckons that's doable now with DX11 on PC," Hall enthuses, "I get the feeling it could happen. It could be next-gen consoles. It does feel like if we're able to keep pushing DirectX 11 into the next generation of consoles we should be able to produce some fantastic stuff with CryEngine."

While gamer tongues are wagging on the potential power of the next generation, for developers, visuals are just one facet of the next-gen battle."It's one thing to have the graphics that look like Avatar, but you want to move everything else on a step as well," Hall says.

Tully agrees. "We always use graphics as the benchmark for what's going to be so great about the next game on this platform - but obviously you've got other aspects. In single-player you've got AI, and in multiplayer you've got, well, how do we better integrate the community into the game so it's more of a social experience? There are all these different areas you can move forward in. It's not always just about the graphics, although that is a big part of it."

Director of ISV relationships at AMD, Neal Robison, said Microsoft's unannounced console will allow developers to make every pedestrian in an open world game such as Grand Theft Auto or Saints Row have a totally individual mentality so they react to the player in different ways. Crowds will then act as a group of individuals rather than predictable mobs.

While this sounds great on paper, the sheer power offered by the next-gen presents its own set of problems. "There's one thing getting the raw power to do these things," Tully says. "Another thing is taking advantage of that in a coherent way, to produce a game. That's the challenge we'll be looking to when we start working on those consoles. It's going to be really interesting to work with."

To overcome these challenges, Crytrek will use its own, in-house game engine CryEngine 3, which it claims is ready for next generation game development now.

This, coupled with the benefit of having experience using advanced PCs today, means the studio should be able to manage the inevitable transition - rather than be stung by it.

"Because [CryEngine] is aimed at both the consoles and the high-end PCs, it means we can add in new features on the high end PCs as we go along," Hall says, "and then when the console becomes available, we'll be able to actually pick a level and set it up there and things should work - although it's never 100 per cent that simple."

Microsoft is rumoured to be preparing a reveal of its next Xbox at E3 2012. Eurogamer has recently had this claim backed up by a number of game industry sources.

Eurogamer has also heard a 2014 release of the next Xbox was planned by Microsoft, but this has now been brought forward to 2013 as a result of Nintendo's confirmed 2012 launch of the Wii U.

Additionally, sources have indicated to us that larger publishers and developers already have target specs of both the next Xbox and PlayStation to help them with their development.

Both Microsoft and Sony have refused to directly comment on their next generation plans, instead pointing to the continued success of the Xbox 360 and PS3. Last year Microsoft said motion-sensing add-on Kinect would add five years onto the life of the 360, whereas Sony has described the PS3's life cycle as "ten years plus".

But is now the right time for the next-generation? Do developers want the next Xbox or PlayStation?

"I'd like to see it at a time when consumers are going to be ready to adopt it and jump in whole-heartedly," Rein said. "I'm not in a huge hurry for it. I'd rather wait until they can bring out hardware that can do Samaritan affordably than bring out something super high-priced and the market adopts it slowly as they wait for a price drop. Either way I'm confident we'll have great a great game engine for it thanks to the efforts we've already got underway like Samaritan."

Crytek UK is rumoured to be developing TimeSplitters 4 for next-gen consoles, using DirectX 11 as a benchmark.

It's tantalising to imagine games with visuals on a par with the Samaritan demo, or indeed Avatar, but for Rein the PS3 and Xbox 360 still have much to offer.

"In terms of something aimed at running Samaritan, I don't think it would be practical to come out with a new console at that spec right now," Rein continues, "I think we're a few years away from that kind of hardware being available at a price consumers would embrace.

"Plus I think we're still getting great value out of the consoles we have today and we can continue to hone our skills with those for a few more years. If you look at Gears of War 3 you'll see that we're continuously getting better and better at making games for the consoles we have now and you simply have to look at the monthly Unreal Development Kit releases to see we're constantly delivering better and better tools and technology for this generation as well."

For Marvin Donald, game director at Darksiders II developer Vigil, however, developers do want to move onto next-generation development. "[That desire] just happened," he says. "Now we've got comfortable. We run into situations where we'd love to use bigger textures. We'd love to have more memory, and we'd love stuff to run faster. We're ready to grow. We're definitely ready to move on.

"But that's just starting to happen for us as a studio, where we want more horsepower to play with. So yeah, next generation, bring it on. We're very excited about that."

US retailer giant GameStop last week said it does not expect new consoles from Sony or Microsoft until 2014.

"2013? I think that's about right, actually," Donald offers. "That sounds about right, because another year-and-a-half and from the consumer point of view it's going to start to feel stale.

"It's like, OK guys, I'm no longer impressed by the graphics. My friend's PC, games like Rage, some of the stuff they're doing, oh my God. Seriously, clearly my Xbox can't do that."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (104) Latest comment 10 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • FortysixterUK #1 10 months ago

    As I said before...put this talk of next gen away for at least another 5 years please.

  • bobfish09 #2 10 months ago

    All the next gen machines need is MORE RAM!

  • murrell96 #3 10 months ago

    we dont need next gen yet

  • Spungles #4 10 months ago

    Reading that was like walking into a room to discover its full of male models changing. Bollocks everywhere you look.

  • s3y3 #5 10 months ago

    Would you like your order of HYPE! with a side order of HYPE!

  • The-Jack-Burton #6 10 months ago

    The really talented people aren't interested in next-gen, yet. They see that this gen has quite a bit more growth left in it. And then there are those that are still bitching like it's 2007 (Marvin Donald).

  • technotica #7 10 months ago

    If the PC was still the leading gaming system we'd have dx13 or 14 by 2013. So dx11 graphics in 2013 isn't really anything impressive is it?
    Edited by technotica at 20/07/11 @ 10:26

  • TheEarlOfZinger #8 10 months ago

    He had this crazy idea about........breeding pine trees.

  • dagas #9 10 months ago

    The important question is if it will lead to better games, not if the textures can look better and such. Although better graphics are always nice, but I don't think that console games are in any way ugly. The difference between a PS2 game and HL2 in 2004 was way bigger than a PC game and a console game today. Mostly because games already look so good that it requires a lot of power for even small improvements. In many games I can't even tell the difference between high, very high or ultra high settings yet ultra requires a lot more.

  • customfirmware #10 10 months ago

    Avatar was overhyped. Guess what else is.....

  • ZizouFC #11 10 months ago

    I.... I think it's time.

  • mukki #12 10 months ago

    not in rush to get a new console...

  • layleeloo #13 10 months ago

    I couldn't give a monkeys toss about next gen if what we get will be the same as this gen. Sequel after sequel of the same old run of the mill generic shite - but wait..... with slightly better graphics! ooooooh. Sorry, I'll keep playing PSN and Xbox live Arcade games thanks as that is the only place where innovation and risk taking seems to exist anymore.

  • fiery_jackass #14 10 months ago

    ah yes. This is the Silicon Graphics supercomputer-walloping N64/Project Reality for $250 all over again.

    snoooooo-zerrrrrrrs

  • username84 #15 10 months ago

    I'm happy with how Crysis 2 looked with HDMI or high def. At least for another couple of years.

  • Mister-Wario #16 10 months ago

    Why are the likes of murrell96 being negged for saying we don't need next-gen? What's wrong with saying "hey, I'm actually very happy with my current console, it's got some great games coming out for it, and I want to get the most out of it before I check out another console"? What will a new console result in? Better games, or prettier games? Sure, the two aren't mutually exclusive, but it's not as if the current generation of consoles are terrible. Graphics and processing power do not always a game make: it's why I can play SMB3 today and still be thoroughly entertained.

  • DiamondIce #17 10 months ago

    @dagas

    Well said.

    Whilst graphics whores can get all hot and sweaty over textures, lighting and the like, I can only hope that gameplay benefits. I doubt it though as all the power will go into graphics.

  • dpb135 #18 10 months ago

    Cant afford one unless its sub £200 on release :) but I want the next gen of console soon.

  • loveless #19 10 months ago

    I do agree that RAM is the [needlessly, as it's so bloody cheap] limiting factor with today's consoles. But then it's also a balancing act with the user experience - if it's used to add detail rather than cache more data, it will mean longer loading times.

    Part of me is excited by the possibility of being wowed by the capabilities of new hardware, but exploiting that inevitably means higher development costs.

    Games are already too expensive [not that I can't afford them - but I want a greater variety of gaming, not to buy one game and play it for weeks to try to justify the cost], and that needs to come down to get wider mass acceptance.

    Companies are forever complaining about piracy and second hand sales. Yet people will spend a fortune in tiny amounts, and much less if you try to take it all in one big hit. The trend of more expansive - and more expensive - games is just driving people exactly where the market doesn't want them to go.

    And all I see in this talk of next generation consoles is compounding that problem, not addressing it.

  • albertofustinoni #20 10 months ago

    Completely agree with bobfish09: my biggest issue with most current games is that textures look a blurry mess because consoles have very little RAM (256 MB vs 1-2 GB on a modern day GPU). I do hope next gen is going to be at least 1 GB video and 1 GB system memory.

  • madmaardigan #21 10 months ago

    I am much more excited about innovations with the interface; where we can go with kinect, move, Sony visor, etc.

    Real time body tracking in a 3d VR environment and speech recognition? Bring it on.

    Sitting in front of a tv holding a plastic pad at ever higher resolutions just isn't doing it for me. Game development is already way too expensive, too conservative and concentrated on the triple A titles. This will only exacerbate the problem.
    Edited by madmaardigan at 20/07/11 @ 09:56

  • jablonski #22 10 months ago

    "visuals on a par with Hollywood blockbuster movie Avatar are a genuine possibility "

    Yes, cut scenes.

    God Of War 2 had incredible cut scenes in 2007. Of course it's possible.

    I for one would love to see cut scenes consigned to history

  • suncoss #23 10 months ago

    Why all the negativity? It's just progress. To listen to some of you, if you had your way we'd still all be playing 8-bit systems and desperately resisting change to the nasty new 16-bit tech! Change is coming! It will be here when it's ready, it will be better than what we have now, and we'll rush out and buy it, because that's what's driven the gaming industry since it's inception. Relax...

  • Nazo #24 10 months ago

    Avatar level story telling I can believe. visuals? I'm skeptical.

  • mooseti #25 10 months ago

    Phew, that was hella long...

  • miiiguel #26 10 months ago

    Not in a rush to get a new console..., unless there's a new console to get.
    Edited by miiiguel at 20/07/11 @ 09:41

  • CamberGreber #27 10 months ago

    What bad stuff do you guys think will happen if they release new consoles.

    The user base will be so small at the beginning almost ever game will still be for 360 and PS3.

    What to be scared of?
    God of War 2 came out in 2007 march way after PS3 and 360 had launched.

    You current Gen console lovers will have plenty of Badass games to play.
    Why are you guys against this you still represent the majority.

  • Atropos #28 10 months ago

    If my PS3 had just a little bit more memory, or my X360 had a better controller and not so many restrictions on updates, I reckon I wouldn't need the next gen just for better graphics. They have no impact on my gaming experience any more.

    That said, bad graphics performance bugs the hell out of me... So I guess bring on the next gen - but then take it easy for ten years, ok?
    Edited by Atropos at 20/07/11 @ 09:46

  • Master09 #29 10 months ago

    Everytime I think of a next gen I also think of the possible ways publishers may introduce to further rip off gamers and also kill second had sales.

    Product keys for games??? Console locked discs you cant play on other consoles other the the one it was first played on? Games like shooters shipping with two versions, one with SP only another with MP only but both fully priced?

    This gen as many great games as it has had, has also introduced many bad practices from game companies. Has made me less enthusiatic about next gen.

  • RodHull #30 10 months ago

    My Amiga 500 could convincingly reproduce the early and then cutting edge Pixar short "Tin Toy". It cost nearly 500 quits and came on 13 floppy disks. The 360 and PS3 could probably reproduce Avatar esque graphics right now, but the man power and RandD would be prohibitively pricey. I imagine the same will be true of the next gen: amazing possibilities hindered by limited funds and market forces.

  • edhe #31 10 months ago

    So many naysayers, what happened to *hope*?

  • suncoss #32 10 months ago

    @edhe

    It hasn't been upgraded yet? :)
    Edited by suncoss at 20/07/11 @ 10:00

  • Darren #33 10 months ago

    The next gen consoles will see a noticeable leap in graphics quality which will initially appear to surpass that of the PC because the PC itself is being held back by six year old PS3 and Xbox 360 technology. This is the cycle they all go through before PC technology again overtakes the consoles within 18 months of their release, if not before. The good news for PC gamers is that they'll also benefit from this as developers have more powerful systems to code for which will lead to better quality multiformat games than we generally get now.

    As for the claims of Avatar quality visuals made by AMD; sorry but I do not buy that at all. Even a high-end PC would not be capable of those kind of visuals in real-time as a game (nevermind in 3D) as they were rendered using dozens of expensive supercomputers and took years to produce. Toy Story came out in the mid-1990s and even now the current technology still isn't powerful enough to render that exact quality of graphics in real-time so why on earth would anyone believe Avatar quality visuals are possible in the next three years when the new consoles are due to arrive? It is just not going to happen any time soon and certainly not in 3D, not even on the PC. Console tech is limited by costs and what can be crammed into a small box with restricted power consumption whereas PC tech is not. I can see why developers and manufacturers are keen to pile on the hype as it creates interest, excitement and eventual sales for the consoles but it also leads to realisation and eventual disappointment when those claims are not met. Remember how the PS3 was supposed to be TrueHD 1080p for its games and how Microsoft promised jaggies would be a thing of the past, neither of which turned out to be true.

    Me, I expect the next Xbox and PS to deliver the quality of graphics my current quad-core NVIDIA GTX 580 equipped PC can deliver at 1080p when properly stressed and nothing more. That in itself would be an impressive achievement given it has to fit into a small box.

  • Big-Swiss #34 10 months ago

    "hope" solo, now that is a next gen football player!

  • Stuz359 #35 10 months ago

    2014 sounds about right to me. I thought Microsoft would try to maximise the sales potential of Kinect before moving onto the next gen, and consoles being rushed and brought forward never work out well.

  • Iain #36 10 months ago

    Do they need to get the hype going already? I think not. But I do think that by 2013 I will want a new console. And let's face it, 2013 release most likely means autumn/winter of 2013. If that is correct we got about 28-30 months to go, there's plenty of time for more great games on the current generation.

    Besides, the XB360/PS3 can easily co-exist with the next console for a year or two.

  • thomaspower0 #37 10 months ago

    A PC which can run that sick demo costs like 3500 pounds, I wonder how they want to put that power into a 300 pound machine.

  • Aka #38 10 months ago

    It's all very well having systems that have the potential to produce Avator type CGI but someone has to create all this art work. It took several years to create Avator. The more powerful the system is, the longer high-quality games are going to take to create and this all adds up to more expensive games.

  • Ryze #39 10 months ago

    Microsoft - WAIT unitl 2014, and include MORE RAM!

    Between 4-8GB shared would make it a MONSTER!

    A 720p, USB3 Kinect with on board processing, capable of finger recognition, and hand controls that improve on the PSmove would be ideal as peripherals.

    1080p/60 visuals, with 3D HDMI 1.4 capability also...

    2014 would give them time to implement such a feature set without a ridiculous price to go with it.

    They'll end up cutting back if they rush it out, and then there's no chance of me buying for 2-3 years anyway.

  • Tonne #40 10 months ago

    its all about the graphic whores it seems,

    while my good friend Gameplay has been dying for years
    Edited by Tonne at 20/07/11 @ 10:46

  • agparrot #41 10 months ago

    However good the graphics, we are going to plummet straight back to the 'problem' Ubisoft claimed to be having about being limited in what they can do with AI because the current generation of consoles isn't powerful enough to make games look pretty, AND have smart AI.

    The same thing is going to happen all over again. For the sake of shiny screenshots, we'll have apocalyptically pretty games, which suck all the power of the consoles into resolutions and definitions and blah blah tech nonsense, and we will, as others have already said, *still* have things like Assassins Creed games where the enemies politely wait in a group for you to attack them, and dullard FPS enemies who haven't managed to crawl back up the hill to the level they were at in Half Life (1), let alone procedurally consider flanking, grenade-flushing or considerations of cover.

    Games developers are still going to be making enemies crouch behind explosive barrels for cover, sadly. If your experience of gaming is heightened only by the prospect of very detailed explosions eviscerating highly detailed character models, I suppose the next generation can't come quickly enough. I, personally, can wait for whatever iteration of Grand Theft Auto has cars with a bazillion polygons each, which *still* disappear when you turn the other way, and are *still* limited to having a dozen or so on screen.

    That's not to say I don't want to see another generation of console graphics, and as Darren says, this will free PCs to progress beyond that level of fidelity. I'm just a bit depressed at the prospect of other, important areas of gameplay being swept aside in the rush for the shiny.

  • Subdominator #42 10 months ago

    The whole discussion is so pointless, cause AMD never said "next Xbox looks like Avatar". They said "the next Xbox will be able to achieve the same level of detail as Avatar". Detail is all about polygons. And when you read some articles about Avatar's making you will find that their average polygon count per rendered frame was about 5 million. They obviously had much more in the creation process but used a pretty sophisticated tool to bring down the polygon count to nearly only what you see on the screen. With games like Crysis 2 using about 400k polygons per frame and a suspected factor 10 for the next gen it is pretty clear that from the numbers alone, yes, the next Sony and Microsoft consoles can be on the same level of detail as what you see on the movie screen in Avatar. It's 4 million polygons vs. 5 million polygons. But the thing that costs all the time in the rendering process of a movie is ligthing. There consoles are light years away from what render farms can achieve. So while they can achieve the same level of detail as Avatar they sure as hell can't reach the same look as Avatar. But AMD never said they could.

    It's like Toy Story all over. People have to look what the companies say instead of mindless bashing of what is possible and what is not. Sony never said PS2 could show Toy Story graphics in realtime. They simply said "The console is powerful enough to show the same level of graphics as a Toy Story character. There you have it. One character. What they say is "We can render one Toy Story character on the screen in realtime with a black background". What people make of it (and that's of course because companies want them to think like that) is "PS2 can do Toy Story in realtime". Or "Xbox can do Avatar in realtime".

    Another thing: People seem to think "OMG, game development is already so expensive, with such a high polygon count it will be even more expensive, we will not get a new generation that is really powerful". Well, you're wrong. In fact game development will be cheaper. The reason why movies are so expensive is mainly due to animation. That's something where we won't see a huge difference compared to the current gen, because it's simply way too expensive to change. Today we create high polygon versions of stuff, we create high resolution textures, only to create normal maps and low resolution meshes and put it all back together. In racing games we have to create a high poly car for closeups, one medium sized car for distances and one low poly version for when it's really far away. And it's actually harder and more expensive to create the low poly versions than the high poly versions because you have to make assumptions on what can be seen and what can't be and create the best thing with that in mind, where for the high poly version it's more like "Hey, I have another 50k polygons to spend, let's make 3D screws for the lincense plate". A vastly more powerful console would get rid of all the costly ways we use nowadays to get the impression that current gen consoles have more power than they actually have. It's all about illusions. With the need of LoD gone we would actually save a lot of time and money compared to right now. Of course that will change after some years, when you'll have to start going back to LoD once again to make graphics appear better and better each year.

    Same thing goes for textures. They are already created in highres and then converted to what you actually see. Because the higher the resolution of the original texture, the better the downsampled ingame version.

  • suncoss #43 10 months ago

    @Tonne "its all about the graphic whores it seems, while my good friend Gameplay has been dying for years"

    Except technological advances usually enhance gameplay possibilities. It's corporate business models that hamper gameplay innovation.

  • MrEuroTrigger #44 10 months ago

    I will play on my new PC and outdated PS3 in the next generation...probably get PS4 right before its outdating too. Easy way to cover all important...

  • des #45 10 months ago

    Poor WiiU

  • oupe #46 10 months ago

    its all about the graphic whores it seems,

    while my good friend Gameplay has been dying for years

    I'd have to disagree, I've played an awful lot of games on 3DS, 360 (Kinect), PS3, Android and iPhone this year. Gameplay certainly isn't a problem.

  • Skooch #47 10 months ago

    I don't wish to sound shallow but I am actually a bit of graphics whore. As long as the game is half-decent I would prefer to play it with better graphics than with worse graphics, even though the gameplay itself may not be changing.

    Am I the only one?

  • suncoss #48 10 months ago

    @Skooch

    Blasphemy! Burn the heretic! ;)

  • whatfruit #49 10 months ago

    Will this mean longer developement times and even huger budgets and more pandering to the masses?

  • basiclee #50 10 months ago

    I don't really feel like we need new consoles yet, I have a pretty high-end PC and while games look amazing with the graphics cranked right up it doesn't make them any more enjoyable then on console.

    I honestly don't think there are any games which have absolutely used 100% of the potential power of the 360 or PS3 yet, just look at how some of the last PS2 games were on a different level to what we'd been seeing.

    Perhaps through by 2013/4 I'll be happy to buy a new Xbox.

  • bf #51 10 months ago

    I think MS should stick to their plan, wait until 2014 and get the hardware _right_ from the start, ie quiet and reliable, we've already seen what happens when they rush things. To me that is far more important than more umpfh under the bonnet.

  • theirongiant #52 10 months ago

    I'll look forward to when we finally hit the graphical glass ceiling and increases in computing power is channeled into AI.

  • Kami #53 10 months ago

    Isn't it all a bit sad?

    Okay, under normal circumstances YES, we'd be seeing a proper next gen by now. But we haven't, all we have is rumour and speculation and tech demos running on rigs that cost thousands as something to look forward to. Honestly, the gaming world is like an addict, who has become so used to the wait he can't wait any longer so they get demanding and needy and angry at anyone who doesn't understand their desperate need for a new technology fix.

    Most PC tech isn't being used to max capacity. Consoles are in a rut. We're seeing the rise and apparent fall of 3D. We have two new handhelds this year - one already out, one on the way. We have new gaming markets opening up, and developers in a state of flux.

    Into all the chaos right now - not least that Microsoft and Sony are pushing different angles right now - you honestly think they'll put a new console into the mix - especially one in which we know would be a re-jig of the current ones we have?

    Really - you guys can't wait a few more years for the tech demo technology to drop in price and give us a proper leap forward? I'd suggest getting some help. That's an addiction and it's not healthy...

    edit; Even sadder people are so desperate for a next-gen they'll neg anyone who says otherwise... which is another reason why we shouldn't have one.
    Edited by Kami at 20/07/11 @ 12:54

  • Jmog #54 10 months ago

    Regarding more RAM in the next generation of consoles, they will certainly have it but there's no chance it will be something like 8GB. Not a chance.

    It will guaranteed not be more than 2GB system memory it that. And it will actually be plenty. A console doesn't have to run a memory hungry OS or heavi APIs. The programmers can code directly to the hardware. This is also why a console with similar specs to a PC will vastly outperform the PC.

    So we will probably see next generation consoles with 2GB ram (which can be shared with the GPU) and a quad core CPU or something like that. And it will be able to produce stupendous visuals. And yes, som games will be in 60fps and some won't (all will probably be 1080p though). The day when all games are running 60fps is a VERY long time away. If it will ever happen. If you can make a game look prettier by allocating ressources to something else instead of frame rate then it will happen. And most consumers would prefer that trade off.

  • byakuya83 #55 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 10:03:41 30-03-2012

  • Rob_B #56 10 months ago

    @Jmog

    But for the price why not stick 3/4/6GB in there for 'unforseen circumstances' ?

    At some point after release even the 720/PS4/whatever WILL hit another ceiling & people will be crying "Why didn't they use 3GB instead of 2GB RAM?" - If they really do want 10yr lifecycles then go overboard on the HW to start with to build in a bit of a reserve, hell the things will cost a fortune anyway so what's another £10 for a couple of extra GB?
    Edited by Rob_B at 20/07/11 @ 13:02

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #57 10 months ago

    Not sure why talk of next gen leaves me cold, I used to get really excited about this kind of thing..

  • Rack #58 10 months ago

    Really doesn't sound like much of a jump. If they can get 60fps 1080p with some AA then it will be an upgrade worth thinking about but it would be better if they could make it a PC style upgrade, you can run new games like this but the same game will work on the old system just at 720p 30fps with no AA and maybe a couple of features switched off. What would be even better is if old games could be patched forward. Won't happen of course, MS will want to sell us Halo3 HD in a couple of years.

  • KopparbergDave #59 10 months ago

    Sadly the power of consoles always goes to waste. They only ever want to make screenshots look amazing, and always at the expense of framerate. What I want to see is 1080p 60fps standard, minimal 1080p 30fps for 3D (which should be more or less in every game as standard in the next gen, like DD5.1 surround sound is standard on current consoles.

    Sadly they always want to push the hardware to create the best visuals but always at the expense of smoothness in gameplay. So even if they can create amazing visuals at 60fps, some idiot will push for even nicer visuals, stick to 25fps or thereabouts.. not good enough.

    As others have said, they NEED to shove tons of RAM in the next gen of consoles. That will massively help, and is really a pretty cheap option in the long run considering the life of a console and the speed at which RAM costs lower. They always scrounge on this for initial price point then it hangs as a deficiency over the whole life of the console.

    I do look forward to the next gen, as hopefully we will see nice smooth full HD graphics and no jaggies in sight anywhere. Otherwise what is the point and why should I be impressed with my £300 new console purchase?!

  • Kami #60 10 months ago

    Consoles just generally come to a natural end. I don't think consoles right now being ditched would be a natural end for them - when the PS2 was in its last throes we saw some utter gems of games as developers totally clicked and got it. It was the natural conclusion and a last hurrah. I don't think I've seen anything right now that comes close to SotC or FFXII in terms of technical brilliance vs technology available.

    Indeed, I fear with the costs involved (and the costs have risen sharply), we're kind of at a point where we need to ask the very obvious question - what would WE get from a next-gen console in 2012? That's not being selfish - we're consumers, we have every right to ask that question.

    What we'd get is largely more of the same - maybe a LITTLE more horsepower, a little more memory available. This will improve our graphics by... oh wait, not much. We may see less jaggies. We MIGHT see some true HD output being done. But good news everyone, the load times would be a whole three or four seconds shorter possibly! WOW!

    Except, for ostensibly another £400-£500, I'd expect considerably more than that. Why the industry would ever consider forcefully pushing a next-gen is beyond my comprehension really - you'd think they'd all be glad that they have a few more years to work on current stuff and stash some money away for the inevitable increase that a true next-gen would imply. But no, some of them want it now.

    And oddly, it tends to be those who have middleware and technological solutions to offer to the industry. It's a bit funny that, wouldn't you say? That they want this next-gen to happen and it just so happens they have things ready for people to use... at a price.

    It's not a natural time for a next-gen. We'll know it when it arrives. But just because we've always had some timed cycle in the past... it doesn't mean we should unceremoniously force out another generation just because "we've always done it at this time". I look forward to games that look like the Epic demo - I want that game. I so do. But I can wait for it.

    We've seen the future. It's shiny and pretty. But don't get confused - the future is not the now. The industry has its own issues right now. It's got a lot of problems. It's got a lot to answer for, and a lot more to give. Give this generation a little more time... it's not grown as fast, but wasn't that the whole point?

  • carlosdfn #61 10 months ago

    These avatar statements are embarrassing, especially when coming from respected developers like crytek. Get real people.

  • Rodster #62 10 months ago

    RROD2

  • pigsy2400 #63 10 months ago

    There is too much hype though to be honest, AVATAR STYLE GRAPHICS!! I seem to remember the same promise with the N64, Silicon Graphics did the gfx chip, but it wasn't on a par with what we were promised, CGI Graphics lol,

    I am sure we will scoff at the next gen when they have been out for a while and have a lilttle laugh at the Promise of AVATAR graphics when the reality is very different.

    I am still trying to connect 36 PS2's together so I can use them to power my Home-Made Missile Defence network lol

  • TexMurphy01 #64 10 months ago

    Here comes the hype train! Eurogamer is on board! Have you bought your tickets?

  • Phishfood #65 10 months ago

    Looking at the comparison screenshots for Crysis 2 DX9 and DX11 the only obvious difference is that brick walls look more bricky.

  • Sid-Nice #66 10 months ago

    The Avatar like graphics will be a cartoon character avatar for playing Kinect 2 games; all these rumours are based on hearsay and we all know what happened to them. :)

  • RexRunti #67 10 months ago

    The only thing I am confident of for the next generation of consoles is that the new Xbox will be 100% backwards compatible with the 360 (because of the Direct X layer in 360 architecture).

  • spongebob #68 10 months ago

    All you people saying it's impossible to do Avatar quality graphics on next gen console: keep in mind that Avatar was rendered in much higher resolution than 720p or even 1080p. Usually the target resolution for movies is 4K ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution ).

  • Uncompetative #69 10 months ago

    I want to download titles at launch to a 1 TB HDD then switch between them with a push of the Xbox 1080 gamepad's guide button. Games will be paused for later resumption and a genre-categorised dashboard will let me near-instantly drop back into the action of a previous experience. Same goes for turning the console off - you should never get nagged to Save your game.

    With the guaranteed inclusion of an HDD developers can make "persistent worlds".

    The next Xbox should aim for 1080p @ 60Hz in all games and leave SONY to waste its time on gimmicky 3D.

  • Uncompetative #70 10 months ago

    I want to download titles at launch to a 1 TB HDD then switch between them with a push of the Xbox 1080 gamepad's guide button. Games will be paused for later resumption and a genre-categorised dashboard will let me near-instantly drop back into the action of a previous experience. Same goes for turning the console off - you should never get nagged to Save your game.

    With the guaranteed inclusion of an HDD developers can make "persistent worlds".

    The next Xbox should aim for 1080p @ 60Hz in all games and leave SONY to waste its time on gimmicky 3D.

  • AnteCashovina #71 10 months ago

    Ps4 will have minimum 4-8GB ram,every ps console had 16x the ram of previous ps console, and betwen ps3 and ps4 it will be 8y of hardware progress instead of theusual 4-5y.

    And it wont cost 600$ becose sony ,i hope, learnd their lesson not to put exotic componets in a console, like the cell and bluray who were the main reason for 600$ price tag.

    I see ppl say "well next gen consoles cant have highend hardware becose it will cost 1000$" thats not true , they dont buy retail componets and stuff them in a box like you would with a PC, they buy them at factory price for example RSX(ps3 gfx chip a modified Gforce 7800) costed 70-80$ to make, but if you buy a retail 7800 you had
    to pay around 400-500$ in 2005.


    Any why you pc only users think a todays 2011 highend pc componets will be in a 2014 console, they always had top hardware in new consoles it was always like this, ps1 in 94" , N64 in 95" ,Dreamcast in 98",Ps2 in 00", GC and Xbox in 01", 360 in 05" and ps3 in06", remember how pc games looked comparen to console games in those years.
    AND!thanks to pc constant evolving we have new consoles , otherwise we would be in Ps2 stage of hardware today, or Dreamcast.

    @Kami well they say" oh development cost have risen this gen "
    by 20% i think compared to last gen, BUT they dont say "we launch the 1st half of the game for 60$, then a few weeks later or the same day ,we sell you the 2nd half piece by piece, and some useless stuff for those who have to get it all and if you sell the game the new owner will need to pay the pass in order to play the game online. /cry pooor us :( "
    Edited by AnteCashovina at 20/07/11 @ 14:45

  • super_monty #72 10 months ago

    Too early for next gen, if it happens in the next 4 years my next console will be a pc.
    Consoles are meant to be a cheaper gaming option but with 6 360's and 2 ps3's , failed move,, Nav, xbox cams and other hardware etc I will probably not get a new console on launch day, that's unusual for me

  • oi #73 10 months ago

    "visuals on a par with Hollywood blockbuster movie Avatar are a genuine possibility on the next generation of consoles"

    :'D

  • SvennoJ #74 10 months ago

    I don't really care for Avatar like graphics, I rather have a smooth running game at 1080p. Current gen visuals are fine, just the textures need to be sharper. The performance of current gen games can be pretty immersion breaking with screen tearing, low frame rate, low res shadows, pop up and obvious lod changes.
    A good pc solves this of course, but that doesn't run all the games I want to play.
    I hope next gen has more focus on AI and performance instead of making the best screenshots.

  • Gastrian #75 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012

  • sidneyfife #76 10 months ago

    People sure love their interactive movies, don't they?

  • Collymilad #77 10 months ago

    Give me something around the samaritan demo quality, and you can have my money day 1.

    The gen has been almost 7 years long, we need new consoles.

  • Zaiz #78 10 months ago

    @Uncomplative

    Oh! Yes, my system that is certain to have an onboard HD has all that stuff you just talked about. Protip: That'd involve way more platter spinning than we are capable of, and I doubt they'd want to push flash memory considering the huuuuge problems with it.

    This whole next gen deal seems fairly stupid to me. I'm perfectly happy with my PC's graphics already, and its only a slight bump above current consoles. I don't mind being wowed, but I don't see a need for super-fancy graphics. I'd like intelligent enemy AI, maybe some realistic bullet modelling(a la the STALKER games. Lots of fun trying to use that hilarious soviet silenced rifle to snipe people, its like shooting artillery), and of course physics. Good physics wow me more than good graphics - seeing things come apart puts you in the game more than 1080p.

  • Machiavellian #79 10 months ago


    Except technological advances usually enhance gameplay possibilities. It's corporate business models that hamper gameplay innovation.

    Actually you should also include gamers as well. People keep talking about they want innovation but when something innovating occurs, the sales usually are pretty low. Making games is a business and doing something different and not seeing the results is costly. Innovation is probably best experienced with the Indie who is not looking at huge profits which is great. They can experiment more and if sales tank it doesn't tank their studio.

    Gamers get the games they want today because that's what they are willing to pay for. Even when a game is 10 bucks you see a lot of crying if the gameplay isn't something easily recognizable.

  • ninjasinthesnow #80 10 months ago

    I think the next Xbox is going to be a monster, performance wise. I wanted next gen last year :)

    Edited by ninjasinthesnow at 20/07/11 @ 18:29

  • Chufty #81 10 months ago

    RAM raw prices are traditionally very volatile. Unlike almost all other components, memory does not get consistently cheaper over the short- and medium-term. It's almost like a commodity, subject to supply and demand pressures that affect the price. Including a large amount of RAM in a brand new multi-million unit-selling console will cause demand to outstrip supply.

    Long-term, yes, it will get cheaper per unit of capacity, but the console manufacturers are unlikely to risk having to increase the price of the console at any point in it's life cycle.

    This is why consoles are usually stingy on RAM, and this next generation will not be any different.

  • Caimbeul #82 10 months ago

    I am keen for a new console, and am genuinely surprised that so many here are not. Boring farts! ;-)

  • Caimbeul #83 10 months ago

    I am keen for a new console, and am genuinely surprised that so many here are not. Boring farts! ;-)

  • ninjasinthesnow #84 10 months ago

    There seem to be a few people on here who believe that great gameplay and great visuals are mutually exclusive entities which can't co-exist. Or to put it another way, that because a game is graphically advanced the game won't play well because somehow gameplay has been neglected. I find that a stifling point of view. It seems to me that the more powerful the engine, the more options and tools available to the developers and the wider the range of capabilities of the target console (PS, Xbox or Nintendo) then inevitably the greater the possibility the game is going to play well. Considering the limitations of the current gen I'm surprised you guys aren't demanding the next gen of tech as soon as possible and salivating at the potential, in terms of gameplay.

  • Caimbeul #85 10 months ago

    At pinyrocks: no it couldn't... CPU and RAM bandwidth is far in excess of gigabit LAN.

  • dimasok #86 10 months ago

    This is clearly a ball of crap. They were promising CG visuals back in the geforce 1 era and it was all hogwash and now they expect us to believe that dx11 era visuals can match something that took thousands of farms to render a single frame?! this marketing brainwashing needs to stop because its plain ludicrous coming from all camps. Rains arguements at least sound plausible about the Samarithan demo but thats about it.

  • PaulieWaulie #87 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 14:23:40 06-01-2012

  • man.the.king #88 10 months ago

    @TheEarlOfZinger

    "He had this crazy idea about........breeding pine trees. "

    OFF-TOPIC: Your comment (and the +s you got) made me think just how influential BTTF has been, so much so that, even 26 years after its release, most people still remember almost all of the dialogues, jokes, punchlines and situations.

    Eric Stoltz must have slapped himself thousands of times over the years for losing the starring role.

  • Rens11 #89 10 months ago

    I'm ready for the next gen now seriously tempted to build a half decent pc now though!

  • Darksjeik #90 10 months ago

    People saying we don't need a next gen baffle me. Seriously, how many more games on the same old rehashed game engines can you frickin' stand man...after 6 years I'd say it's about time to bump the graphics and AI to new standards.

  • OllyJ #91 10 months ago

    Blah blah graphics. Boring article, there's more to games.....

  • OllyJ #92 10 months ago

    Blah blah graphics. Boring article, there's more to games.....

  • natureboy #93 10 months ago

    Those saying "it is time" should be prepared to get an overdraft to pay for these next gens

  • Kami #94 10 months ago

    "People saying we don't need a next gen baffle me. Seriously, how many more games on the same old rehashed game engines can you frickin' stand man...after 6 years I'd say it's about time to bump the graphics and AI to new standards."

    That's not the fault of the technology we have, more that the landscape has made middleware solutions so much more viable. Couple this with consumer attitudes which play somewhat safe and you probably will end up with a lot of games using the same old mechanics - everyone wants a slice of the pie that WoW has, or COD, or Gears of War, or Uncharted.

    Pushing a next-gen isn't going to magically solve this problem - indeed, the ones so eager to push new technology through are those who have vested interests in it - either they are funded by tech makers, or they have middleware solutions for it and so forth. Indeed, if we push a next-gen now, the problem of identikit games trying to grab the same userbase will get worse, rather than better. The costs will go up, the development time will go up, and something has to give in the end.

    The reason people like me are happy to wait is - we could have a good few more years with this tech, and we may see some gems in the process. This generation has been more about creating new experiences rather than pushing new tech - Nintendo won that round soundly, and Sony and Microsoft are playing catchup. Nintendo have joined in now - so what is to say there couldn't be another six years of this generation left? Nintendo have joined in largely as Microsoft and Sony are pushing their own agendas with their machines - that's not a surprise. It's just everyone has met back in the middle more or less.

    A next-gen will come when there really is a cost-effective and urgent need for it. That a lot of consumers are perfectly happy with what they have right now is probably as good an argument as any to not rush this - the current crop are still rather pricey at £200-£300 with all the parts (Wii obviously excluded). If people are okay with what they have - let's hope the developers can find good stuff to do with the tech we have now!

    We should all just relax. I have no doubt they are working on proper next-gen consoles now... but I can't see them being here for a few years yet.

  • aplsin #95 10 months ago

    Bring on the next gen, this gen is obviously very weak as 95% of games run at a measly 30fps. For now I'll just stick to PC where I can get 95% of games running at 60fps.

  • saburwulf #96 10 months ago

    its time for next gen that whole 10yr cycle thing was just bull, PCs are blowing away consoles in every way

    @technotica,
    moron, there are pc out their that is capable of dx11 and beyond they're called servers and workstation you know used to make cgi style movies.

  • ATNR1 #97 10 months ago

    As is I'm pretty happy with my 360 and PS3 for my gaming needs, but if the next xbox launches in 2013, it's still TWO years away, and by then I am sure I'll be ready for the next gen. So by all means bring on the hype, I'll enjoy reading all the articles and speculations, just as much as I did back when the 360 and the PS3 was being hyped to godlike status.

  • tancredo #98 10 months ago

    Stop worrying about graphics!
    Tell you what, developers! Make games with worse graphics and better and longer gameplay

  • Dr.Buckles #99 10 months ago

    The Next-box had better last longer than the current 360, I'm sick of buying new ones after they go red and die.

  • Kami #100 10 months ago

    "its time for next gen that whole 10yr cycle thing was just bull"

    Why is it bull? Let's not forget the NES was only taken out of production a few years ago - that console had over two decades worth of time invested into it. And it's been fairly recently that the sales of PS3 and 360 have started to rise and take hold, whilst the Wii has done what it set out to do - throw a curveball. Sony and Microsoft had to differentiate - Nintendo now jump into the current gen with their own take. All seems set for a few years yet.

    As I said, more power isn't going to give us more games - actually, it's going to do the exact opposite. You will see maybe more indie games, but less high-end commercial ones because the costs will be too high. And because the costs are high, the risks are huge - so they won't take creative risks, meaning what you get from more graphics and power is largely more of what we have seen in this generation - more Halo, more Gears of War, more CoD, more Uncharted etc. The big sellers this generation will be sequelled, and many other studios will break away and likely end up on the indie scene.

    The hype machine is working because those pushing it have vested interests - it is in their own financial interests to push it on, and f**k the creative side and f**k the consumer and f**k the industry as hard as is allowable - so push it they will. And you can argue all you want, the simple truth is - Epic have a new game engine to push. So duh, of course they want a next-gen because they can't sell that to new devs until we have wind of a next-gen, can they? Why pay the licencing costs for an engine that won't be commercially viable for five years? Same with iD I think - Carmack talks about their inner workings, so no doubt they too have some middleware solution to sell to the industry as soon as a next-gen is confirmed.

    The thing is, did we not learn ANYTHING from the success the Wii had? How about the DS vs PSP? Seriously, when will we learn that power isn't what drives the market - Nintendo showed it's offering consumers what they want and stuff that intrigues them, over raw gaming horsepower, that clinches it. The Wii selling nearly twice as much as 360 and PS3 should have been a wake up call to the industry that power simply isn't in the driving seat - consumers will go crazy over what many rather snobbishly called a last-gen console with a wavey wand. The PS2 even sold despite being the weaker machine on the market. PS1 same deal. Handheld market - that's the story of nearly three decades of Nintendo dominance.

    These people may work in the industry, but they clearly have their heads somewhere else because they can't see the wood from the trees. Anyone with half an ounce of sense would see what has happened the past few years and really take stock. Instead, it's more Jeremy Clarkson "POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!" yelling. And hell, even Clarkson stopped doing that all the time and has been sensible of late *gasp*.

    Eventually, we have to accept we've reached a cap. There will be a point where we can go no further, and we'll look back at a road littered with studios, companies, consoles and entire genres which were abandoned for not being commercial enough to make money. And we will have to ask ourselves if the rush to reach that threshold has been worth the cost - financially, economically, creatively.

    I fear it won't be worth it... and that's why I think we need to not go forward with a next gen but go sideways and explore what we have a little more first. The technology can wait and get cheaper. It's not going anywhere... but many studios will if we're intent on straining their finances with a completely unnecessary next-gen.

    The reason people want a next-gen is because some people want the status of being "first" again. Look at me, I have more money than sense. I have one launch game which is essentially a three-hour tech demo and there's bugger all coming for it in the first year. Aren't I special?

    Yes, you are special... but not entirely in the way you want it to mean.

  • Mukkinese #101 10 months ago

    Two points, 1; Crytek would talk this kind of thing up, they make the bulk of their income from game engines, which need the latest tech in order to show off all they can do. 2; the difference between DirectX11 and DirectX10.1 (what the Wii U has) displayed on a T.V., is not going to be "jaw-dropping" nor a reason for changing gaming platforms, for the majority of gamers. It will get some excited, especially journalists, who need new things to talk about constantly.

    There is no doubt that the graphics will be somewhat prettier, but if such incremental improvements in graphics where that important to the average gamer, we would all be playing on P.C.s. Look at the present situation. the PS3 is much more powerful than the Xbox and capable of displaying superior graphics, but rarely does. And the Xbox is doing okay. Why? Most gamers do not know, or do not care, that the majority of games that they are playing run at 720p, rather than 1080p. Why should they care about, slightly better shaders, textures or more anti-aliasing?

  • septimus #102 10 months ago

    If they don't aim for the Samaritan level graphics as a minimum then next gen is pointless. I would rather wait until 2013 than get a sub-par upgrade. PC will tide me over anyway.

  • sidneyfife #103 10 months ago

    Most people don't notice much of a difference between 720p and 1080p because they're not hypersensitive nerds who flip out because of a 2.67 FPS drop during explosions. If companies want to begin the next generation that's fine, it's their money and if it leads to another video game crash then that could be a good thing because maybe that's what is necessary to make fresh and innovative games again.

  • Marshall2008 #104 10 months ago

    The samaritan demo looks a bit pish, hope consoles can do far better graphics than that.