Are there any archers here? Page 2

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  • pjmaybe 10 Nov 2006 14:06:22 70,676 posts
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    Hmmmmm not so sure. According to a pathologist buddy, bows are more lethal than crossbows because in crossbow incidents, sometimes the whole bolt will go straight through and out the other side, whereas with a bow, there's more risk from the arrow entering the body, the person falling back on it and causing more damage.

    As I said, I think it fits better with the storyline if it's a bow and arrow as it'd be easier to hand-tool one of those than a crossbow I think...

    Peej
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 14:07:34 18,937 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    I'm going for "As handtooled as possible" - I just wanted to know the glass bow stats for another aspect of the story.

    Basically the story involves a series of grisly deaths committed by someone using a bow. At first it was going to be a crossbow but I'm not sure if there's much chance a crossbow bolt would kill anyone (not even sure an arrow would - I guess if you shot 'em through the head with it, it might).

    The "hand tooled arrow" question was to avoid the killer being traced.

    Just a few ideas I'm bandying about but all the info is very useful.

    Peej

    Surely a handtooled arrow would have unique toolmarks linking the killer to the murders?

    You can make your own bows and arrows, but only traditional bows, not modern ones.
  • Nasty 10 Nov 2006 14:08:25 4,742 posts
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    I did the papingo shoot. Longbow straight up trying to knock a wooden pidgeon off the top of a church tower.

    @Peej.

    Arrows are normally pine but hes done a few walnut ones that look quite cool. He just uses normal modern types of nocks, (piles)tips and fletchings.

    For bows he has made a few yew ones but his favourite it Lemonwood. Fantastic colour to it. He made me a pool cue from Lemonwood, ebony and ash too. The mans garage looks like some kind of medievil workshop.

    Now I have to text him back to get him to shut up about woodcrafting stuff before he starts talking about lathes and stuff.

  • MetalDog 10 Nov 2006 14:10:24 23,697 posts
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    Arrows can kill people - how likely it is depends on the pile. A broadhead pile from a longbow of reasonable poundage would kill most people if it hit a bone, because they tend to shatter the bones quite a way along and it's the shock that tends to kill in that instance.

    Range is determined by the poundage - the more you can pull, the further it goes and the longer it stays relatively accurate. You'll need to find a chart for the bow you end up using, I'd think.

    Lungs and heart are also pretty good hit areas and much more likely to kill than a head shot because the skull is curved and more likely to deflect. You'd want a barbed pile, so that any attempt to pull it out would cause more damage. I /believe/ you can get arrowheads that open up on impact, making even pushing them through an unpleasant business.

    This is mostly longbow talk, though, I know jack shit about other bows. Longbow arrows are often home-made with fletching jigs. Cedar shafts, goose feathers, iron piles, plastic noks.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • pjmaybe 10 Nov 2006 14:10:25 70,676 posts
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    terminalterror wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    I'm going for "As handtooled as possible" - I just wanted to know the glass bow stats for another aspect of the story.

    Basically the story involves a series of grisly deaths committed by someone using a bow. At first it was going to be a crossbow but I'm not sure if there's much chance a crossbow bolt would kill anyone (not even sure an arrow would - I guess if you shot 'em through the head with it, it might).

    The "hand tooled arrow" question was to avoid the killer being traced.

    Just a few ideas I'm bandying about but all the info is very useful.

    Peej

    Surely a handtooled arrow would have unique toolmarks linking the killer to the murders?

    You can make your own bows and arrows, but only traditional bows, not modern ones.

    Hmm not sure, I think unique toolmarks depend on the tools used. I'm thinking more a traditional one. The reason for the query about the glass bows is so that forensics discover that the killer is not using standard kit here...

    heh cheers Nasty, your father in law sounds like a fascinating bloke...I've always dreamed of having a garage like that :)

    Peej
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 14:12:43 18,937 posts
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    Salaman wrote:
    terminalterror wrote:
    BravoGolf wrote:
    Bought a bow for my father a few months ago. Man, it rocks. Really enjoy it. If you shoot it upright is simply dissappears for quite a while (but we attached a feather type that makes a noise in the air to help track it).

    Full range would be about 3 acres distance, whatever that is (was on a farm in the middle of nowhere, see). Damn good fun and hugely satisfying when one hits the target from afar

    Shooting upright doesn't sound like a very sensible idea to me...

    You call yourself an archer?
    It's one of the common ways to do it with competitions and all.

    see?

    We just shoot at these, which just stand on the ground. No shooting up in target archery.
  • BravoGolf Moderator 10 Nov 2006 15:03:40 12,741 posts
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    terminalterror wrote:
    Salaman wrote:
    terminalterror wrote:
    BravoGolf wrote:
    Bought a bow for my father a few months ago. Man, it rocks. Really enjoy it. If you shoot it upright is simply dissappears for quite a while (but we attached a feather type that makes a noise in the air to help track it).

    Full range would be about 3 acres distance, whatever that is (was on a farm in the middle of nowhere, see). Damn good fun and hugely satisfying when one hits the target from afar

    Shooting upright doesn't sound like a very sensible idea to me...

    You call yourself an archer?
    It's one of the common ways to do it with competitions and all.

    see?

    We just shoot at these, which just stand on the ground. No shooting up in target archery.

    Ahhh, therein lies the answer. I was aiming at these targets :)
  • Pike 10 Nov 2006 15:09:36 13,446 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    Hmmmmm not so sure. According to a pathologist buddy, bows are more lethal than crossbows because in crossbow incidents, sometimes the whole bolt will go straight through and out the other side, whereas with a bow, there's more risk from the arrow entering the body, the person falling back on it and causing more damage.

    As I said, I think it fits better with the storyline if it's a bow and arrow as it'd be easier to hand-tool one of those than a crossbow I think...

    Peej

    Why not check what people who actually kill stuff with bows think?

    I suspect that their forum is likely to be a pretty scary place though.
  • Nuttah 10 Nov 2006 15:20:11 1,840 posts
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    TT drop me a mail about the bow. as you know I used to shoot, but have not in a long long while. My bow and my brother wussy Compound have been sold however both my mothers and fathers bows are still around.

    I will have to inquire about whether he will be will to sell it but I think the poundage and stabilisers would be good for you. The bow is probably about 5 years old or so.

    My archery club is the Berkhamsted Bowmen. I'm pretty sure we host their site but I cant be bothered to find it :p

  • ProfessorLesser 10 Nov 2006 15:40:31 19,356 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    Arrows can kill people - how likely it is depends on the pile. A broadhead pile from a longbow of reasonable poundage would kill most people if it hit a bone, because they tend to shatter the bones quite a way along and it's the shock that tends to kill in that instance.

    Range is determined by the poundage - the more you can pull, the further it goes and the longer it stays relatively accurate. You'll need to find a chart for the bow you end up using, I'd think.

    Lungs and heart are also pretty good hit areas and much more likely to kill than a head shot because the skull is curved and more likely to deflect. You'd want a barbed pile, so that any attempt to pull it out would cause more damage. I /believe/ you can get arrowheads that open up on impact, making even pushing them through an unpleasant business.

    This is mostly longbow talk, though, I know jack shit about other bows. Longbow arrows are often home-made with fletching jigs. Cedar shafts, goose feathers, iron piles, plastic noks.
    That's bloody scary :-/
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 16:00:06 18,937 posts
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    ProfessorLesser wrote:
    MetalDog wrote:
    Arrows can kill people - how likely it is depends on the pile. A broadhead pile from a longbow of reasonable poundage would kill most people if it hit a bone, because they tend to shatter the bones quite a way along and it's the shock that tends to kill in that instance.

    Range is determined by the poundage - the more you can pull, the further it goes and the longer it stays relatively accurate. You'll need to find a chart for the bow you end up using, I'd think.

    Lungs and heart are also pretty good hit areas and much more likely to kill than a head shot because the skull is curved and more likely to deflect. You'd want a barbed pile, so that any attempt to pull it out would cause more damage. I /believe/ you can get arrowheads that open up on impact, making even pushing them through an unpleasant business.

    This is mostly longbow talk, though, I know jack shit about other bows. Longbow arrows are often home-made with fletching jigs. Cedar shafts, goose feathers, iron piles, plastic noks.
    That's bloody scary :-/

    Indeed. Whilst you wouldn't want to be hit by a carbon arrow from a recurve bow (it would most likely sail clean through you), they aren't specifically designed for killing, just high scores.
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 16:03:29 18,937 posts
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    Nuttah wrote:
    TT drop me a mail about the bow. as you know I used to shoot, but have not in a long long while. My bow and my brother wussy Compound have been sold however both my mothers and fathers bows are still around.

    I will have to inquire about whether he will be will to sell it but I think the poundage and stabilisers would be good for you. The bow is probably about 5 years old or so.

    My archery club is the Berkhamsted Bowmen. I'm pretty sure we host their site but I cant be bothered to find it :p


    mail sent
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 16:07:41 18,937 posts
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    ProfessorLesser wrote:
    Unfortunately I missed every single damn one of the University Bowmen Fresher's sessions, which I'm really pissed about because I'd love to get into archery. If I wanted to start now I'd have to pay 30 without training or a trial, and it's bloody miles away to boot.

    You don't want to shoot for CUB :p

    That isn't great if they won't let you try it out for a session before paying. We don't make people pay upfront.

    Although I suppose I wouldn't mind if you joined and then sabotaged all their best archers so we might actually win the Varsity match for once. Your lot have won it something like 10 years straight now, although we got pretty damn close last year, and our novices beat your novices.

    I'm not sure what is going on with CUB of late, as they recently lost the use of the field they'd been shooting on for years, and Cambridge doesn't have its own sports centre.
  • Carlo 10 Nov 2006 16:20:48 18,054 posts
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    Salaman wrote:
    Are you kidding? I'd have thought a crossbow'd be deadlier than a bow.
    In the old days (spot the person reading Bernard Cornwell Novels :) ) the English Longbow was feared by EVEYRONE.

    They can fire at least 4 Arrows while the crossbowman is still loading, can outshoot a crossbowman by a fair distance. Longbowmen were pretty untouchable back then.

    Bodkin arrows (arrow heads shaped like bullets rather than those with veins than make it impossible to pull back out once in flesh) can pierce platemail!

    English longbowmen were hated by everyone... They were the ones that were tortured the longest when found, and the French (and Scottish) gave the biggest bounties to mercenaries catching/killing longbowmen over all other types of troops.

    they turned many battles, even when outnumbered purely because of their better range, rounds per minute, and and portability (ie they could be 'light troops').

    PSN ID: Djini

  • magicpanda 10 Nov 2006 16:21:12 13,362 posts
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    You have to be able to do this or there really is no point... :)

    Incredible.
  • boo 10 Nov 2006 16:24:28 11,778 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    I'm going for "As handtooled as possible" - I just wanted to know the glass bow stats for another aspect of the story.

    Basically the story involves a series of grisly deaths committed by someone using a bow. At first it was going to be a crossbow but I'm not sure if there's much chance a crossbow bolt would kill anyone (not even sure an arrow would - I guess if you shot 'em through the head with it, it might).

    The "hand tooled arrow" question was to avoid the killer being traced.

    Just a few ideas I'm bandying about but all the info is very useful.

    Peej

    Peej - have you read 'A Big Boy Did It And Ran Away' by Christopher Brookmyre?

    Interesting, hand-tooled crossbow related death, plus it's a cracking good black-humour read, doubly so if you're into first person shooters.

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 17:11:20 18,937 posts
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    Magic Panda wrote:
    You have to be able to do this or there really is no point... :)

    Incredible.

    I'd seen that before, and it is indeed incredible.

    I'm not that good yet :(

    Apparantly the hardcore Koreans train as children for 6 months before they ever even pick up a bow.
  • Nuttah 10 Nov 2006 17:23:09 1,840 posts
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    Carlo wrote:


    English longbowmen were hated by everyone... They were the ones that were tortured the longest when found, and the French (and Scottish) gave the biggest bounties to mercenaries catching/killing longbowmen over all other types of troops.

    Funnily enough the only modern counterpart to this are Snipers. disregarding the Geneva convention momentarily, it is not unusual to for snipers to be shot (or tortured then shot) if they got caught.

    Not suprising snipers can be absolutely devastating to enemy moral, very similar to how English longbows effected enemy moral.

    I presume everyone knows the yee olde British law that says " any member of a parish must practice archery every month" , irrespective of religion this applies to 99% of us :p
  • brokenkey 10 Nov 2006 18:33:37 7,028 posts
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    And the other thing about the french used to chop off the first two fingers of the right hand, so that bowmen prisoners of war couldn't return to combat when freed - leading to the "flicking the Vs" as a rude gesture

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  • ProfessorLesser 10 Nov 2006 19:05:03 19,356 posts
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    TT you've just convinced me to join ;-D

    I'll give those in charge a mail and see if they can sort anything out. Sounds like a title worth defending if you ask me ;-)

    The field they shoot on now is way out of town, about a 15-20 minute cycle from my college, and I'm by no means a competent cyclist. Kind of inconvenient. And I don't have all that much time still, either.
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 19:29:15 18,937 posts
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    ProfessorLesser wrote:
    TT you've just convinced me to join ;-D

    I'll give those in charge a mail and see if they can sort anything out. Sounds like a title worth defending if you ask me ;-)

    The field they shoot on now is way out of town, about a 15-20 minute cycle from my college, and I'm by no means a competent cyclist. Kind of inconvenient. And I don't have all that much time still, either.

    They shoot outside in weather like this?

    It would be great if you joined, then we could have a mini EG several times a year at the BUTTS tournaments.
  • ProfessorLesser 10 Nov 2006 19:40:05 19,356 posts
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    I don't think we've got anywhere we can shoot indoors. I'm not sure though.

    Tourney meet sounds good. If I make it of course, and if I'm good enough. And if MD isn't invited...
  • pjmaybe 10 Nov 2006 19:50:31 70,676 posts
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    boo wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    I'm going for "As handtooled as possible" - I just wanted to know the glass bow stats for another aspect of the story.

    Basically the story involves a series of grisly deaths committed by someone using a bow. At first it was going to be a crossbow but I'm not sure if there's much chance a crossbow bolt would kill anyone (not even sure an arrow would - I guess if you shot 'em through the head with it, it might).

    The "hand tooled arrow" question was to avoid the killer being traced.

    Just a few ideas I'm bandying about but all the info is very useful.

    Peej

    Peej - have you read 'A Big Boy Did It And Ran Away' by Christopher Brookmyre?

    Interesting, hand-tooled crossbow related death, plus it's a cracking good black-humour read, doubly so if you're into first person shooters.

    Sounds like my cup of tea..might have to read that.

    I think I got some useful info from MD's post there actually....worryingly.

    Peej
  • terminalterror 10 Nov 2006 20:01:27 18,937 posts
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    ProfessorLesser wrote:
    I don't think we've got anywhere we can shoot indoors. I'm not sure though.

    Tourney meet sounds good. If I make it of course, and if I'm good enough. And if MD isn't invited...

    Shame there isn't anywhere to shoot indoors. It'll give you great practice for the frostbite grudge match between Oxford and Cambridge in January. You can guess what it is by the name. You won that last year as well :(

    You don't have to be good at all, all tournaments have a novice catagory, and the first one is Nottingham BUTTS next weekend. Considering all the novices will have only 1 month's experience, nobody will be very good, and standards will vary enourmously.

    Tournaments are fun. BUSA (there is an Indoor and Outdoor tournament each year) ones are great, as all the student archery clubs from all over the UK turn up. Outdoors they all shoot simultaneously on a massive field with 300 archers. Unfortunately last year BUSA outdoors was on the day of my last exam, so I couldn't make it. Looks to be the same this year.

    I managed to pick up a medal (Novice Team Silver) at last year's BUSA Indoors. That'll be a hell of a lot harder now I'm no longer a novice. We did beat your novice team though :)

  • MetalDog 10 Nov 2006 20:32:47 23,697 posts
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    You coming to the next geekmeet prof? >=D

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • ProfessorLesser 11 Nov 2006 00:18:46 19,356 posts
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    /perches on roof

    ) - - - >======> - - - >==*_O==>
  • terminalterror 11 Nov 2006 00:44:55 18,937 posts
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    ProfessorLesser wrote:
    /perches on roof

    ) - - - >======> - - - >==*_O==>

    One arrow in the eye isn't enough for you?
  • Megapocalypse 11 Nov 2006 00:52:35 5,417 posts
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    Used to do archery quite a lot. Nothing 'profesional' just having a bit of fun on scout sites etc. Haven't done any for a couple of years though and this thread has rekindled my intrest. From one of the links posted I've found a club not to far from where I work.

    Question. Do clubs in general expect you to be 'good' and take part in tournaments etc or can you just turn up a few times a week and shoot for a bit of fun?
  • terminalterror 11 Nov 2006 10:24:08 18,937 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:
    Used to do archery quite a lot. Nothing 'profesional' just having a bit of fun on scout sites etc. Haven't done any for a couple of years though and this thread has rekindled my intrest. From one of the links posted I've found a club not to far from where I work.

    Question. Do clubs in general expect you to be 'good' and take part in tournaments etc or can you just turn up a few times a week and shoot for a bit of fun?

    Most will just let you come and shoot for a bit of fun. They'd be a pretty shitty club if they expected you to be 'good'.
  • Megapocalypse 11 Nov 2006 11:16:39 5,417 posts
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    Ah, excelent. Thanks.
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