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  • AccidentProne 4 Mar 2013 12:35:54 1,165 posts
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    Hmm, sounds like I should get on the gels asap. Don't want to risk anything like this happening in my first marathon.
  • CosmicFuzz 4 Mar 2013 12:41:01 24,562 posts
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    Oh god that's my fear. And just imagine shitting yourself over a chaffed arse. It would be agony.

    Everyone knows Jack Thompson - but how did he become the game-blaming activist he is today? Read Part One of my new mini-series!

  • AccidentProne 4 Mar 2013 15:07:25 1,165 posts
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    Right then, I've ordered a box of High5 gels, as that's apparently what they'll be handing out at my marathon. Probably best testing them out in comparative privacy first, in case they mess my already dodgy running guts up to pant shitting levels.
  • DUFFMAN5 4 Mar 2013 16:57:20 14,776 posts
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    mrpon wrote:
    I love it when Duffman posts, I always visualise this:

    When did you take that ;)

    "Duffman the grey is thrusting in the direction of the problem! Oh, yeah!"

  • pistol 4 Mar 2013 17:09:45 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Right then, I've ordered a box of High5 gels, as that's apparently what they'll be handing out at my marathon. Probably best testing them out in comparative privacy first, in case they mess my already dodgy running guts up to pant shitting levels.
    They're ok and will do the job. Not particularly high in carbs compared to other gels but they'll get you round.

    For my endurance cycling events I use torq gels as the flavours are good and high in carbs. On the bike I can eat more solids than if I was running and use Zipvit bars too. I wouldn't recommend those for running. Stick to gels or sweets.

    Edited by pistol at 17:18:07 04-03-2013
  • pistol 4 Mar 2013 17:16:16 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    Managed a 14 miler today, absolutely killed me but really chuffed. I have incredible chafing though, and my nipple was sensitive. And we used energy gels and I nearly shat myself towards the end.

    But still! 14 miles! Marathon is April 21st, need to add a mile a week to try and hit 20 before hand. Pretty terrified of the extra 6 without training for it though. Pretty sure it's going to actually kill me.
    So far I've got up to 16 miles in preparation for my May marathon. That pretty much broke me though and I've no idea how I'll find the next 10 miles in me.

    Haven't tried energy gels yet though, you found them helpful? I've just been taking a jelly baby every 5k or so, but that doesn't seem to be enough by the end of my long runs.

    Oh and I nearly shit myself too, bit worried about doing a Paula on race day...
    Gels are fine but you need to experiment in training. Everyone's taste buds and tolerances are different. If you do use gels I would recommend the ones that don't require water to be absorbed. (Isotonic). Jelly babies are very popular and not hard on the stomach. You'll need to find something per hour that you can keep down and stop you running out of glycogen (bonking). Depending on how heavy you are you need to get the amount of energy you take on correct. Not too much, not too little.

    Decent breakfast 2-3 hours before the event (no cooked breakfasts) and hydrate yourself properly. Both beforehand and during.
  • AccidentProne 4 Mar 2013 17:56:19 1,165 posts
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    Previously I've always been alright on race day, though that's only up to half marathon distance so far. It's really my training runs when I don't always bother eating or hydrating properly, where I have problems.

    Usually go for porridge and a banana a few hours before a race. Then a bottle or two of Lucozade Sport or similar at the start. Jelly babies and water have got me through so far, but fear of the wall means I want to give the gels a try too. Though the fear of shitting myself is probably worse than the wall...

    Drinking too much water pre-race can be a problem too. My brother drank loads before our first half and had to take a piss stop every few km. Cost him a good few minutes, he reckons that's why I beat him, I'm not so sure.
  • altitude2k 4 Mar 2013 18:19:21 4,410 posts
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    Finished the Silverstone half yesterday. 1:50, which wasn't too bad. Tried not to push too hard, got another in 3 weeks!
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 09:18:52 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Previously I've always been alright on race day, though that's only up to half marathon distance so far. It's really my training runs when I don't always bother eating or hydrating properly, where I have problems.

    Usually go for porridge and a banana a few hours before a race. Then a bottle or two of Lucozade Sport or similar at the start. Jelly babies and water have got me through so far, but fear of the wall means I want to give the gels a try too. Though the fear of shitting myself is probably worse than the wall...

    Drinking too much water pre-race can be a problem too. My brother drank loads before our first half and had to take a piss stop every few km. Cost him a good few minutes, he reckons that's why I beat him, I'm not so sure.

    Everything you've said there is fine but why do you scrimp when training and not in events?

    Fuelling while training isn't just to get you through the session, it's to help with recovery too. If you let your glycogen levels drop too low you're going to start to attack the muscle and you don't want that. How long does a half marathon take you and how far do you run in training?
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 09:21:25 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Previously I've always been alright on race day, though that's only up to half marathon distance so far. It's really my training runs when I don't always bother eating or hydrating properly, where I have problems.

    Usually go for porridge and a banana a few hours before a race. Then a bottle or two of Lucozade Sport or similar at the start. Jelly babies and water have got me through so far, but fear of the wall means I want to give the gels a try too. Though the fear of shitting myself is probably worse than the wall...

    Drinking too much water pre-race can be a problem too. My brother drank loads before our first half and had to take a piss stop every few km. Cost him a good few minutes, he reckons that's why I beat him, I'm not so sure.
    You don't need to drink too much before. I would suggest a 500ml of water with breakfast so you are immediately starting to hydrate. Let that go through your system until you need the loo. Then small sips every do often on the event. Whether it be water or some kind of hydration or energy drink. Little and often is key as your body will utilise the fluids much more effectively. You also won't over hydrate.
  • AccidentProne 5 Mar 2013 09:27:39 1,165 posts
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    Actually, I've probably improved for my training of late, have to really for longer distances. I think my attitude before was that as I run, I can offset that by eating whatever I want. Obviously, that doesn't really work.

    Half marathon best is 1:39, though I've been slower lately since getting injured last year. Training runs 4 times a week, a couple of 5k sets of intervals or jogs depending on how my legs feel, one or two midweek longish run of 10 miles or so and the long weekend run's up to 16 miles and gradually increasing.
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 09:37:11 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Actually, I've probably improved for my training of late, have to really for longer distances. I think my attitude before was that as I run, I can offset that by eating whatever I want. Obviously, that doesn't really work.

    Half marathon best is 1:39, though I've been slower lately since getting injured last year. Training runs 4 times a week, a couple of 5k sets of intervals or jogs depending on how my legs feel, one or two midweek longish run of 10 miles or so and the long weekend run's up to 16 miles and gradually increasing.
    Google a guy called Dr Garry Palmer

    Coaches me
  • AccidentProne 5 Mar 2013 09:49:41 1,165 posts
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    Will do, cheers for the advice.
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 09:53:32 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Will do, cheers for the advice.
    One of the top sports nutritional and physiology guys in the UK. He's worked with Pro and Elite athletes and covers all endurance. So ironman, marathon, triathletes and cyclists. Absolute genius and taught me loads. He's testing me tomorrow morning.

    Edited by pistol at 09:54:05 05-03-2013
  • TheSaint 5 Mar 2013 11:35:11 14,478 posts
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    Anyone in the market for some new shoes?

    http://www.adidas.co.uk/Men%27s-JS-Poodle/Q23499_580,en_GB,pd.html?cgid=men-Shoes
  • AccidentProne 5 Mar 2013 13:13:35 1,165 posts
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    @pistol Out of interest, what's the cost of one of those sports tests? Couldn't find any prices on the site. There's a test centre not too far from me in Milton Keynes, so might take a look if it's not too dear.

    Although, it does look more geared towards proper competitive athletes, which is most definitely not what I am.
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 13:41:52 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    @pistol Out of interest, what's the cost of one of those sports tests? Couldn't find any prices on the site. There's a test centre not too far from me in Milton Keynes, so might take a look if it's not too dear.

    Although, it does look more geared towards proper competitive athletes, which is most definitely not what I am.
    In MK you'll probably get tested at Twenty3C which is a really good bike shop. They have a team that races etc. Garry tends to work with a couple of bike shops in central london (Bespoke cycling in Farringdon is one), another is over at Liverpool St where they also do running tests etc. Plus he tests at various Specialized Stores. He's not cheap but then he's a pro. My bike tests are 185 and I get 2, sometimes 3 a year. This one tomorrow is to fine tune my training to get gold time on Marmotte sportive in france in july and my last one was end of Nov last year.

    Edited by pistol at 13:42:38 05-03-2013

    That's 185 per session.

    Edited by pistol at 13:48:00 05-03-2013
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 13:47:14 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    @pistol Out of interest, what's the cost of one of those sports tests? Couldn't find any prices on the site. There's a test centre not too far from me in Milton Keynes, so might take a look if it's not too dear.

    Although, it does look more geared towards proper competitive athletes, which is most definitely not what I am.
    Mostly competitive athletes yes, as the testing and programme to follow is geared towards a specific goal. i.e. no point in spending all your time on the bike after the test training like a sprinter, when your goals are hilly endurance races. From the initial test you get height, weight, bodyfat %, V02, Max power in Watts, threshold, maximum heart rate etc.

    You also get all your training zones accurately worked out (based on max), and you find out how efficient you currently are at using oxygen, how efficient you are at using energy etc.

    The actually bike testing isn't pleasant but very accurate and you can tailor your training based on results.
  • AccidentProne 5 Mar 2013 14:00:26 1,165 posts
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    They do what sounds like a bog standard version of all that at the running shop I use, though more geared towards triathletes I think.

    It's actually something I'm considering though, as I really feel I've started to plateau out performance wise. That might just be down to my age though.
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 14:04:30 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    They do what sounds like a bog standard version of all that at the running shop I use, though more geared towards triathletes I think.

    It's actually something I'm considering though, as I really feel I've started to plateau out performance wise. That might just be down to my age though.
    How old are you?

    At a minimum, from a running point of you, I wouldn't use Garry unless you were training for a marathon distance. Half marathon (just getting round) you should be able to train for with very little knowledge. Once you start getting competitive, he's bloody brilliant.

    Case in point, 41 yr old friend of my wife has just got into running. Her fitness knowledge is pretty non-existent, loves a bit too much of the red wine and is carrying a bit of excess weight. Started from scratch about 6 months ago and I've been helping her. She's now running 8-9k pretty regularly on her own and looking to do her first 1/2 marathon soon.

    Edited by pistol at 14:06:45 05-03-2013

    Edited by pistol at 14:07:48 05-03-2013
  • AccidentProne 5 Mar 2013 14:14:01 1,165 posts
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    I'm 40 :( Also a bit fond of the red wine.

    Got a couple of marathons coming up, Milton Keynes in May and Loch Ness in September. As it's my first time, I was going to use MK as a yardstick really, as to whether I need any additional help.

    Target for MK is just to get round, preferably in less than 4 hours. My current training plan, which is just the online Asics jobby, reckons 3:35 based on past performance, but I think that's unlikely...
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 14:16:01 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    I'm 40 :( Also a bit fond of the red wine.

    Got a couple of marathons coming up, Milton Keynes in May and Loch Ness in September. As it's my first time, I was going to use MK as a yardstick really, as to whether I need any additional help.

    Target for MK is just to get round, preferably in less than 4 hours. My current training plan, which is just the online Asics jobby, reckons 3:35 based on past performance, but I think that's unlikely...
    2 yrs younger than me so no excuse.

    My best mate is also 42 and got into endurance running 2 years ago. OK, he does also cycle and had a fitness past like me but is already doing 3hr 10 marathons and has done a couple of 50 mile events. Age is no excuse.

    This guy did the Luton marathon last year (quite a hilly route compared to London) and also did the Marmotte cycle sportive with me in French Alps last year. Think his best time on London Marathon was 3hrs 10.

    Edited by pistol at 14:17:28 05-03-2013
  • AccidentProne 5 Mar 2013 14:19:59 1,165 posts
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    Yeah, in all honesty I'm way fitter at 40 than I've ever been before. Three years ago I was a bit of a fat knacker, smoker too! Thanks to a drunken bet with my brothers I entered a half marathon, lost a few stone and packed in the fags. Actually, the Nike+ group here on EG helped a lot too.
  • pistol 5 Mar 2013 14:21:54 13,019 posts
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    @AccidentProne

    That's great...well done on knocking the fags on the head.

    Happy to help with anything if you need any advice.
  • Vortex808 9 Mar 2013 12:53:08 7,212 posts
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    \o/

    11.1miles run. Should be ok for my 1/2 marathon in 2 weeks if our son keeps the colds to himself for a bit. Going to be slower than hoped for, but might squeak in under 2 hours if I'm lucky.

    Not bad after 2 months of no running from Dec due to chest colds.

    I took some jelly beans with me after dying at 9 miles last week and they definitely seemed to help. Will be doing that on race day for sure now.
  • SYS64738 9 Mar 2013 14:22:05 1,667 posts
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    Training for the half marathon in Edinburgh end of May. Started after a 2.5 month break (studying/christmas/laziness) in early January. Last year began to run and my biggest achievement was only a 10k run once...

    So a new year resolution of doing above half mara was more than enough motivation to run regularly. Did do a number of 10k's over the past weeks in around an hour each. My stamina has definitely improved, but my legs are now the limiting factor... Struggling with pain on the lower legs/calves mostly. Wonder if it was just a case of starting too fastl/far too soon. Running only 2/3 times a week to give my legs enough rest.

    Also going on a 3 week holiday in Asia in April, will bring my running gear but am worried that less running due to possible injuries plus holidays will put the run in jeopardy... I never did a run longer than 10k as right now I feel I would push my legs too far. Not really sure how to approach the next 2.5 months so any tips/recommendations from you pro's would be more than welcome.

    Edited by SYS64738 at 14:24:36 09-03-2013

    PSN: SYS64738_UK

  • pistol 11 Mar 2013 12:55:17 13,019 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    \o/

    11.1miles run. Should be ok for my 1/2 marathon in 2 weeks if our son keeps the colds to himself for a bit. Going to be slower than hoped for, but might squeak in under 2 hours if I'm lucky.

    Not bad after 2 months of no running from Dec due to chest colds.

    I took some jelly beans with me after dying at 9 miles last week and they definitely seemed to help. Will be doing that on race day for sure now.
    Bear in mind that as a rule of thumb you'll start running low on energy after about 90 mins. That's about how much glycogen your body (liver and muscles) can store, no matter how much you eat. So if you're running 90 mins or more you'll have to top up the tank. If running, nothing too heavy on the stomach. A gel should suffice or handful of jelly babies etc.
  • pistol 11 Mar 2013 12:57:34 13,019 posts
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    SYS64738 wrote:
    Training for the half marathon in Edinburgh end of May. Started after a 2.5 month break (studying/christmas/laziness) in early January. Last year began to run and my biggest achievement was only a 10k run once...

    So a new year resolution of doing above half mara was more than enough motivation to run regularly. Did do a number of 10k's over the past weeks in around an hour each. My stamina has definitely improved, but my legs are now the limiting factor... Struggling with pain on the lower legs/calves mostly. Wonder if it was just a case of starting too fastl/far too soon. Running only 2/3 times a week to give my legs enough rest.

    Also going on a 3 week holiday in Asia in April, will bring my running gear but am worried that less running due to possible injuries plus holidays will put the run in jeopardy... I never did a run longer than 10k as right now I feel I would push my legs too far. Not really sure how to approach the next 2.5 months so any tips/recommendations from you pro's would be more than welcome.
    Without knowing you it's difficult to be accurate but I would say if your legs are going before your lungs on 10k you probably need to think about some strength training as well. 6 miles shouldn't really be long enough for legs to start hurting if you're used to running those distances.
  • SYS64738 11 Mar 2013 13:17:38 1,667 posts
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    @pistol

    I should probably add that when I picked up running last year, I didn't do it regularly (once or twice a week max, sometimes with couple of weeks of not doing anything). Before that I literally did feck all sports for about a decade.

    Only since January this year I started a proper regular routine. Note am turning 38 this year and weigh around 11 stone at 5"11 so pretty average build. You might be on to something there... did some lunge exercises last week (2 x 14 repeats only) and my hamstrings were in complete bits for almost a week.

    PSN: SYS64738_UK

  • Vortex808 11 Mar 2013 13:50:33 7,212 posts
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    pistol wrote:
    Bear in mind that as a rule of thumb you'll start running low on energy after about 90 mins. That's about how much glycogen your body (liver and muscles) can store, no matter how much you eat. So if you're running 90 mins or more you'll have to top up the tank. If running, nothing too heavy on the stomach. A gel should suffice or handful of jelly babies etc.
    Thanks, I never knew that - I assumed that I'd be fine until the 20-22 mile 'The Wall' mark, since I thought that's when the glycogen reserves generally ran out. At least my idea to give the jelly beans a go helped out a bit though. I plan a practice run of the route next weekend, to see how badly I die on the fairly steep hills near the last few miles. I know the route well as it covers some of my usual runs into the country on my bike, but I have never run it before. Hopefully the baltic weather will have buggered off by then!

    I'm not trying gels though, I even avoid them when out on my bike for longer rides. I should try them some time, but as far as I'm aware you need to give 'em time to get used to them, or find ones that agree with you or they turn you inside out don't they?
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