EU countries bullying Bolivia's president over Snowden row

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  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 19:01:29 2,538 posts
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    Surprised this doesn't have a thread already.

    I mean, really? Major EU countries denying the president of an actual country overflight permission over the mere suspicion that he have Snowden on board? Causing a diplomatic disaster and public outrage just for obligeing the US government?

    Have we really become such pathetic tools?
  • Fab4 3 Jul 2013 19:07:32 5,689 posts
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    The Guardian's full of it...knock yourself out.

    I personally have been more bullied by Easyjet.
  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 19:10:22 2,538 posts
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    Fab4 wrote:
    The Guardian's full of it...knock yourself out.
    If that was a point, we wouldn't need this whole forum section -.-
  • Khanivor 3 Jul 2013 19:18:48 39,862 posts
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    Perhaps the European governments are acting in their self interest. Snowden appears to know a fair bit about the spying practices of countries other than the US. Perhaps they don't want to see him continue his tour of the highest bidders.
  • Deleted user 3 July 2013 19:23:05
    He is a snitch, no one wants one of them. Russia told him to jog on and Venezuela wouldn't either and both love sticking it to USA.
  • Chopsen 3 Jul 2013 19:24:52 15,105 posts
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    It's a bit of a slap in the face to Bolivia though, isn't it? Obviously, everybody knows they're hardly big-hitters on the international stage, but this is just embarassing!
  • oceanmotion 3 Jul 2013 19:32:47 15,243 posts
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    Couldn't he go back and fight the US government in court if things aren't so clear cut in the law and he didn't go to stupid extremes like Manning so he may have some backing.

    Wherever he lands, surely they will pick him up unless it is someone big like Russia or China. If Hong Kong were never going to hand him over, should he not have stayed there?
  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 19:42:47 2,538 posts
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    I think this really isn't about Snowden anymore. Can you just deny the president of a sovereign state overflight permissions on the suspicion that he have a US whistleblower on board?

    And needless to say, in this case this is not only a slap in the face of Bolivia, but predictably upsetting the whole of Latin America. And not without reason.

    They wouldn't have done this with the president/head of government of Russia, India, Israel, Canada, China, Japan, South Korea, etc.

    I'm not sharing the widespread Latin American point of view that Morales was being kept hostage or any rubbish like that, but I do think this is also a sign of disregard.

    Aside from being very questionable from an international law point of view.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 19:43:52 03-07-2013
  • Deleted user 3 July 2013 19:51:50
    Why is it a shock to anyone? The major countries shit on the small ones everyday.
    Any time a big players helps the little one it is only if it is to their benefit.

    Libya, oil.
    Syria leader was very pro west so why intervene??
    All the secular violence in west Africa? Who cares as long as the mineral trade is unaffected to Europe.

    So countries denying this flight at Americas request is to be expected.
  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 20:16:11 2,538 posts
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    @Choppi

    I think it's hardly a shock, but I expect them to at least try to not give the impression of being such obedient lapdogs to the USA. I mean, Snowden revealed the insane amount of US espionage even on Europe, and what do they do? Slap South America in the face instead of the USA.

    Europe tries to appear like a diplomatic force, but this way we're just showing the whole world what a faithless bunch of cunts we are.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 20:21:21 03-07-2013
  • joeymoto108 3 Jul 2013 20:26:16 617 posts
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    oceanmotion wrote:
    Couldn't he go back and fight the US government in court if things aren't so clear cut in the law and he didn't go to stupid extremes like Manning so he may have some backing.
    Snowden would definitely get a totally fair and just trial in the US...

    Edited by joeymoto108 at 20:26:59 03-07-2013

    'Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?'

  • TheSaint 3 Jul 2013 20:42:22 13,629 posts
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    Must be nice for the Wikileaks legal team to get a break from defending their boss the sex offender.
  • Dirtbox 3 Jul 2013 21:09:56 76,313 posts
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    Germany should take him, they're already geared up to press some sort of charges against the US and the UK, they might as well give the bloke a sanctuary while they're at it.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • Dirtbox 3 Jul 2013 21:11:50 76,313 posts
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    Choppi wrote:
    He is a snitch, no one wants one of them. Russia told him to jog on and Venezuela wouldn't either and both love sticking it to USA.
    Fuck me, the quality of poster is really fucking slipping now. Look at this idiot.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 21:21:11 2,538 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Germany should take him, they're already geared up to press some sort of charges against the US and the UK, they might as well give the bloke a sanctuary while they're at it.
    I agree, but you know how we are. Being outraged, talking and complaining, but never, never ever taking action.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 21:21:50 03-07-2013
  • Dirtbox 3 Jul 2013 21:24:55 76,313 posts
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    It's not us that has to take action, all we need to do is be vocal about it and the politicians will jump all over it, making it a point to quash that business as part of their election policy. Don't forget, it's not only the US, the UK has their own version that is just as pernicious.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • DaM 3 Jul 2013 21:33:12 12,600 posts
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    He should just stay where he is - he's living the Duty Free dream, living off Toblerones and cheap vodka.
  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 21:33:46 2,538 posts
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    With "we", I meant Germans. I haven't heard of any statement from our government so far, even if it is overdue. We were the most vocal in being outraged about the espionage scandal, but predictably we won't comment on this matter now until being forced to.

    I miss our previous government, with our foreign minister pissing off Rumsfeld live on a shared press conference. Our current government is just a pathetic bunch of bumlickers.
  • mal 3 Jul 2013 21:38:56 21,928 posts
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    oceanmotion wrote:
    Couldn't he go back and fight the US government in court if things aren't so clear cut in the law and he didn't go to stupid extremes like Manning so he may have some backing.
    Have you seen any of the stuff places like Fox News are publishing? His point, lest we forget it was that what the US sekrit poleec are doing is wrong, but it's perfectly legal (or will be soon at least). He would get massacred by the judiciary - that's what he's claiming asylum about.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 21:47:11 2,538 posts
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    He's in danger of being sentenced to death in the US, so he can't go back and no self-respecting country can extradite him.
  • rudedudejude 3 Jul 2013 21:50:45 2,098 posts
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    The US are reading all this you know. They're coming for YOU next.

    And they looked in your drawer and sniffed your pants.

    And they're watching you through your webcam. Right now.
  • Khanivor 3 Jul 2013 21:59:43 39,862 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    He's in danger of being sentenced to death in the US, so he can't go back and no self-respecting country can extradite him.
    No he is not.

    Well, not unless it turns out he was selling secrets directly to AQ or some such organisation. Even then, the chances are incredibly remote.

    You know how many US spies were sentenced to death during the last 40 years of the Cold War?

    Edited by Khanivor at 22:01:50 03-07-2013
  • DrStrangelove 3 Jul 2013 22:05:31 2,538 posts
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    But as I understand it, he's theoretically in danger of being sentenced to death?

    For example, even the theoretical possibility would disallow Germany from extraditing him. By our own law.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 22:07:31 03-07-2013
  • MrDigital 3 Jul 2013 22:13:35 1,866 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    With "we", I meant Germans. I haven't heard of any statement from our government so far, even if it is overdue. We were the most vocal in being outraged about the espionage scandal, but predictably we won't comment on this matter now until being forced to.

    I miss our previous government, with our foreign minister pissing off Rumsfeld live on a shared press conference. Our current government is just a pathetic bunch of bumlickers.
    Germany Compares US Bugging to 'Cold War'

    Formerly TheStylishHobo and Geesh.

  • Khanivor 3 Jul 2013 22:18:08 39,862 posts
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    Well vizinni is theoretically in danger of being able to post about Sony like a non-mental but that's not going to happen either.

    Snowdon would have to be found guilty of treason and somehow wind up with the death penalty. You had spies like Aldrich Ames who sold secrets during the Cold War which led to the death of many, many operatives. He's currently languishing in a jail. As are all other spies found guilty of selling state secrets.

    It may be great to whip up the righteous but he's not going to be executed.
  • Deleted user 3 July 2013 22:22:49
    Death penalty a bit arsh yo but he def needs to be handed long ass jail sentence. U can't just reveal ur nations secrets n not get screwed.
  • TheRealBadabing 3 Jul 2013 22:30:26 1,195 posts
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    Let's say he ended up back in the Freedom loving democratic meritocracy of our beloved USA (USA USA) and stood trial.

    Are you so absolutely certain that he would not be executed you would be willing to take a similar bet on the outcome? I mean are you absolutely sure?
  • TheSaint 3 Jul 2013 22:42:35 13,629 posts
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    Yes.
  • spindizzy 3 Jul 2013 23:15:14 6,399 posts
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    Choppi wrote:
    Death penalty a bit arsh yo but he def needs to be handed long ass jail sentence. U can't just reveal ur nations secrets n not get screwed.
    Death penalty is a BIT harsh? You utter knobber.

    He's not getting rewarded - he caught the security apparatus lying to the elected representatives and he revealed it, presumably out of a sense of principle, because there's no personal gain in the shit he's got himself into. To my mind, he's a hero.
  • Deleted user 4 July 2013 07:09:31
    A hero for putting his country at risk? He is a traitor who doesn't see the big picture.
    China most likely doing the same thing but no one exposed it, have you noticed Russia n China not saying much on the matter.
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