Unpopular gaming opinions Page 41

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  • King_Edward 4 Jan 2013 12:58:25 11,471 posts
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    Most games don't kick the shit out of you for getting it wrong though.
  • PazJohnMitch 4 Jan 2013 12:59:57 8,727 posts
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    Abdu@EG wrote:
    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    I also thought the Dark Souls difficulty was spot on for everything except one boss fight.
    Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough?
    The Four Kings?


    Edited by Abdu@EG at 12:25:53 04-01-2013
    First one of those.

    The other was really easy. Died first time but did it on my second attempt.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 4 Jan 2013 13:00:22 39,757 posts
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    @spudsbuckley tell us about a game you like spuds. I'm sure everyone would love to hear.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • King_Edward 4 Jan 2013 13:00:39 11,471 posts
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    Abdu@EG wrote:
    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    I also thought the Dark Souls difficulty was spot on for everything except one boss fight.
    Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough?
    The Four Kings?
    Bed of Chaos surely.
  • andytheadequate 4 Jan 2013 13:08:15 8,353 posts
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    King_Edward wrote:
    Most games don't kick the shit out of you for getting it wrong though.
    If Skyrim's combat was very difficult it still wouldn't be good though, as the mechanics are average. Either I'm missing something or people overrate the combat by confusing good mechanics with difficulty.

    I'm guessing it's the former so feel free to prove be wrong. Is it just that it does a simple concept better than other similar games? Or does it do something unique?

    Edited by andytheadequate at 13:10:52 04-01-2013
  • UncleLou Moderator 4 Jan 2013 13:09:46 35,851 posts
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    andytheadequate wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
    And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.
  • Mr-Brett 4 Jan 2013 13:09:55 12,894 posts
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    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    My thoughts on Halo:
    ODST / Wars: Not played.
    I probably liked ODST's campaign the most. It's shorter and more concise, has more interesting characters and has a ton of atmosphere. I think MP not being a major component probably helped it too.

    Also Halo Wars is nowhere near as bad as people make out, compare it to a PC RTS and obvious it's going to get slaughtered but there's no better console RTS. It's a little clunky but overall a pretty solid game. The biggest problem with the game is probably that it has Halo in the title, which meant that a lot of people wrote it off as a cynical cash-in.

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • PazJohnMitch 4 Jan 2013 13:12:13 8,727 posts
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    Also had no problem with Chaos.

    Only ones I struggled with were the final boss, spider lady, Taurus and O&S.

    O&S took me about 25 attempts, all others I did in under 10.

    Edited by PazJohnMitch at 13:19:39 04-01-2013
  • Mr-Brett 4 Jan 2013 13:12:20 12,894 posts
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    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • King_Edward 4 Jan 2013 13:14:39 11,471 posts
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    andytheadequate wrote:
    King_Edward wrote:
    Most games don't kick the shit out of you for getting it wrong though.
    If Skyrim's combat was very difficult it still wouldn't be good though, as the mechanics are average. Either I'm missing something or people overrate the combat by confusing good mechanics with difficulty.
    Your missing something. ;P

    It's not just difficulty, it's balance and awareness too. Like Bushido Blade, it's about the tension between strikes as much as the actual attack. It wouldn't work if every enemy was powerful sword wafting speed demon, but since they appear as tense as you do it works.
  • Deleted user 4 January 2013 13:16:50
    UncleLou wrote:
    andytheadequate wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
    And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.
    Dark Souls Isn't any old hack and slash, it's mechanics are built like Vrtua fighter, where every move is intrinsically quantified against the frames per second.

    Same as Ninja Gaiden; everything runs like clockwork.

    I think this is why they had a hard time getting the PC version to run at 60 frames per second.
  • superflyninja 4 Jan 2013 13:17:57 477 posts
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    unpopular opinion for me. i hate nintendo

    Put away those firey biscuits

  • UncleLou Moderator 4 Jan 2013 13:18:00 35,851 posts
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    Mr-Brett wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
    Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.

    In many difficult games, there's just a hard cap: your skill. I can play something like Geometry Wars or Space Stardust HD for hours and still see the game over screen every 5 minutes. Does not mean they're shit games, but they're not for me.

    Edited by UncleLou at 13:18:48 04-01-2013
  • PazJohnMitch 4 Jan 2013 13:18:03 8,727 posts
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    Bought ODST last week as it was almost free. If I spent 5 more in GAME they would give me a 5 voucher. (It was 6)
  • spamdangled 4 Jan 2013 13:21:20 27,441 posts
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    andytheadequate wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
    That's a bit simplistic when it comes to DS. Not all attacks can be blocked, you need to take direction and position into account, manage stamina, stance, range, etc. It's not as simplistic as, say, Skyrim.

    Fair play to the haters though, It's a very marmite game.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Widge Moderator 4 Jan 2013 13:31:39 13,743 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    Yeah that rings a bell :D
    caching - Dark Souls topical humour :D

    _ _ _

    www.inverted-audio.com

  • Mr_Sleep 4 Jan 2013 13:34:33 17,368 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.
    The exception to this is the Anor Londo archers, they're just cheaty bullshit.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Mr-Brett 4 Jan 2013 13:44:45 12,894 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Mr-Brett wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
    Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.

    In many difficult games, there's just a hard cap: your skill. I can play something like Geometry Wars or Space Stardust HD for hours and still see the game over screen every 5 minutes. Does not mean they're shit games, but they're not for me.
    I think there's a difference though, Dark Souls has a strong RPG element which is something that's heavily rooted in progress. Geo Wars also has progress in that you go through different levels, you're not really invested in the character or the world etc. You just try and get a a bit further each time.

    I think that's where the problem comes in for me in Dark Souls, I get invested in the character and need to feel like I'm progressing. While I am progressing it's so slow and galling that it feels more like grinding.

    I think you need to be wired a certain way to like Dark Souls which is why I cringe a bit when I see people saying: "everyone should play it, you'll love it, it's the best thing ever!".

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • Deleted user 4 January 2013 13:48:22
    Yeah, agree.
  • ronuds 4 Jan 2013 13:50:56 21,788 posts
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    I've never played DS and how its been described by people who say they "love" the game makes me not want to.

    "OMG, you die sooooo much and it's not an entirely fair game. GOTY!"

    Granted, I think the hand-holding in most games has reached ridiculous levels, but DS feels like it went the other way a bit too much.

    Edited by ronuds at 13:53:04 04-01-2013
  • andytheadequate 4 Jan 2013 13:53:54 8,353 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    andytheadequate wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
    And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.
    Not really the same. A better analogy would be comparing how the combat is a fps games work e.g. Cover shooters are different to games like halo, bulletstorn is different to CoD, vanquish is different to far cry etc. Even though shooting people occurs in all of them, each game requires massively different tactics and techniques to achieve it.

    Still, I see your point. Is it just that it does it better than other games? And if so, what is it that so massively improved? Ot are we just comparing it favourably because oblivion and skyrim had awful combat so it looks good in comparison?

    Edit - bitch tits has explained it perfectly, cheers! Also, what a wonderful username!

    Edited by andytheadequate at 13:58:46 04-01-2013
  • Rusty_M 4 Jan 2013 13:55:55 4,920 posts
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    Dark Souls is not a game everyone should play. It'd be like suggesting everyone should play DCS Black Shark or A-10.

    Some people don't want to have to study to have fun. Others do. This is meant as observation, not criticism.

    The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.
    http://www.twitch.tv/rusty_the_robot
    http://twitter.com/Rusty_The_Robot

  • ronuds 4 Jan 2013 13:58:48 21,788 posts
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    One question that would need answering if I were to even dream of playing this game: How long of a gap in time is there between death and respawn?

    Any more than 2 seconds and forget it.
  • JoeBlade 4 Jan 2013 14:03:15 2,631 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Mr-Brett wrote:
    Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
    Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.

    In many difficult games, there's just a hard cap: your skill. I can play something like Geometry Wars or Space Stardust HD for hours and still see the game over screen every 5 minutes. Does not mean they're shit games, but they're not for me.
    I understand Mr-Brett and the others' point of view though.
    There's a point where having to replay sections of a game begins to feel like cheap content rehashing and the slow progress becomes frustrating. I presume that threshold differs from player to player.

    For me the threshold is lower still when the game provides no hints whatsoever towards the solution, so finishing a difficult section on the first go is outright impossible except through dumb luck. That and the "solution" being microsecond timing.

    I won't ever be able to tell whether this holds true in for DS as that is apparently only playable with a controller (thus, to me, it isn't) but I see where they're coming from with their criticism.
  • jonsaan 4 Jan 2013 14:16:46 25,440 posts
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    Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.
    This sounds a lot like the quest for anal with one's other half.

    FCUTA!

  • JoeBlade 4 Jan 2013 14:24:12 2,631 posts
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    jonsaan wrote:
    This sounds a lot like the quest for anal with one's other half.
    Jonsaan and the Quest for Anal, I like it. I'm considering creating a Kickstarter to get it made by Peter Jackson.
  • jonsaan 4 Jan 2013 14:28:20 25,440 posts
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    It sounds like a Dizzy game.I'll get on to the Darling brothers.

    FCUTA!

  • UncleLou Moderator 4 Jan 2013 14:35:19 35,851 posts
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    andytheadequate wrote:
    UncleLou wrote:
    andytheadequate wrote:
    SparkyMarky81 wrote:
    Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.

    Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
    This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
    And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.
    Not really the same. A better analogy would be comparing how the combat is a fps games work e.g. Cover shooters are different to games like halo, bulletstorn is different to CoD, vanquish is different to far cry etc. Even though shooting people occurs in all of them, each game requires massively different tactics and techniques to achieve it.

    Still, I see your point. Is it just that it does it better than other games? And if so, what is it that so massively improved? Ot are we just comparing it favourably because oblivion and skyrim had awful combat so it looks good in comparison?

    Edit - bitch tits has explained it perfectly, cheers! Also, what a wonderful username!
    A few thoughts: first of all, I think what DS does better than most games is indeed the melee combat. The way how different armour influences your ability to move and dodge, the way how different weapons handle very differently, based on their weight and different movesets that make sense for the respective weapon type, etc. I also like how combat is, mostly, slow, with "tactical" elements like stamina management.

    It's neither an over-the-top action game like God of War (which I find much more difficult to play) with dozens of different button combos you have to learn, neither is it a simple "click to death" game like, say, the Elder Scrolls series.

    I should also point out that I enjoy the "normal" combat a lot more than the boss encounters, which I am quite bad at and which I often only survive becasue I outlevel the content, so to speak.

    Really, only a handful of games come to mind where I enjoyed the melee combat to a similar degree: Gothic 1/2 (where the combar was not nearly as good though), Severance, Mount & Blade maybe. I struggle to name more games where melee combat made much sense or was particularly fun for me.

    "Not really the same. A better analogy would be comparing how the combat is a fps games work e.g. Cover shooters are different to games like halo, bulletstorn is different to CoD, vanquish is different to far cry etc. Even though shooting people occurs in all of them, each game requires massively different tactics and techniques to achieve it.
    "

    But, that *was* my point, so I am not sure it was a bad analogy. I just followed your example and took the very basics of the genre, with the intention to demonstrate that that does not mean much. :)

    Edited by UncleLou at 14:39:24 04-01-2013
  • WrongShui 4 Jan 2013 15:52:44 6,622 posts
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    Civilisation games peaked at civ2.
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