Most games don't kick the shit out of you for getting it wrong though.
Unpopular gaming opinions • Page 41
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King_Edward 9,343 posts
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PazJohnMitch 5,672 posts
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Registered 6 years agoAbdu@EG wrote:
First one of those.PazJohnMitch wrote:
Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough?
I also thought the Dark Souls difficulty was spot on for everything except one boss fight.
The Four Kings?
Edited by Abdu@EG at 12:25:53 04-01-2013
The other was really easy. Died first time but did it on my second attempt. -
@spudsbuckley tell us about a game you like spuds. I'm sure everyone would love to hear.Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011 and 2012. -
King_Edward 9,343 posts
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Registered 3 years agoAbdu@EG wrote:
Bed of Chaos surely.PazJohnMitch wrote:
Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough?
I also thought the Dark Souls difficulty was spot on for everything except one boss fight.
The Four Kings? -
andytheadequate 7,065 posts
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Registered 2 years agoKing_Edward wrote:
If Skyrim's combat was very difficult it still wouldn't be good though, as the mechanics are average. Either I'm missing something or people overrate the combat by confusing good mechanics with difficulty.
Most games don't kick the shit out of you for getting it wrong though.
I'm guessing it's the former so feel free to prove be wrong. Is it just that it does a simple concept better than other similar games? Or does it do something unique?
Edited by andytheadequate at 13:10:52 04-01-2013 -
andytheadequate wrote:
And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat. -
Mr-Brett 11,484 posts
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Registered 7 years agoPazJohnMitch wrote:
I probably liked ODST's campaign the most. It's shorter and more concise, has more interesting characters and has a ton of atmosphere. I think MP not being a major component probably helped it too.
My thoughts on Halo:
ODST / Wars: Not played.
Also Halo Wars is nowhere near as bad as people make out, compare it to a PC RTS and obvious it's going to get slaughtered but there's no better console RTS. It's a little clunky but overall a pretty solid game. The biggest problem with the game is probably that it has Halo in the title, which meant that a lot of people wrote it off as a cynical cash-in.Please don't use the delete button, think of the children.
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PazJohnMitch 5,672 posts
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Registered 6 years agoAlso had no problem with Chaos.
Only ones I struggled with were the final boss, spider lady, Taurus and O&S.
O&S took me about 25 attempts, all others I did in under 10.
Edited by PazJohnMitch at 13:19:39 04-01-2013 -
Mr-Brett 11,484 posts
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Registered 7 years agoSparkyMarky81 wrote:
Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.Please don't use the delete button, think of the children.
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King_Edward 9,343 posts
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Registered 3 years agoandytheadequate wrote:
Your missing something. ;PKing_Edward wrote:
If Skyrim's combat was very difficult it still wouldn't be good though, as the mechanics are average. Either I'm missing something or people overrate the combat by confusing good mechanics with difficulty.
Most games don't kick the shit out of you for getting it wrong though.
It's not just difficulty, it's balance and awareness too. Like Bushido Blade, it's about the tension between strikes as much as the actual attack. It wouldn't work if every enemy was powerful sword wafting speed demon, but since they appear as tense as you do it works. -
bitch_tits_zero_nine 4,893 posts
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Registered 2 years agoUncleLou wrote:
Dark Souls Isn't any old hack and slash, it's mechanics are built like Vrtua fighter, where every move is intrinsically quantified against the frames per second.andytheadequate wrote:
And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
Same as Ninja Gaiden; everything runs like clockwork.
I think this is why they had a hard time getting the PC version to run at 60 frames per second. -
superflyninja 448 posts
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Mr-Brett wrote:
Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
In many difficult games, there's just a hard cap: your skill. I can play something like Geometry Wars or Space Stardust HD for hours and still see the game over screen every 5 minutes. Does not mean they're shit games, but they're not for me.
Edited by UncleLou at 13:18:48 04-01-2013 -
PazJohnMitch 5,672 posts
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Registered 6 years agoBought ODST last week as it was almost free. If I spent £5 more in GAME they would give me a £5 voucher. (It was £6) -
darkmorgado 22,531 posts
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Registered 4 years agoandytheadequate wrote:
That's a bit simplistic when it comes to DS. Not all attacks can be blocked, you need to take direction and position into account, manage stamina, stance, range, etc. It's not as simplistic as, say, Skyrim.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
Fair play to the haters though, It's a very marmite game.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
caching - Dark Souls topical humour
Yeah that rings a bell
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Mr_Sleep 13,552 posts
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Registered 11 years agoUncleLou wrote:
The exception to this is the Anor Londo archers, they're just cheaty bullshit.
Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot. -
Mr-Brett 11,484 posts
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Registered 7 years agoUncleLou wrote:
I think there's a difference though, Dark Souls has a strong RPG element which is something that's heavily rooted in progress. Geo Wars also has progress in that you go through different levels, you're not really invested in the character or the world etc. You just try and get a a bit further each time.Mr-Brett wrote:
Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
In many difficult games, there's just a hard cap: your skill. I can play something like Geometry Wars or Space Stardust HD for hours and still see the game over screen every 5 minutes. Does not mean they're shit games, but they're not for me.
I think that's where the problem comes in for me in Dark Souls, I get invested in the character and need to feel like I'm progressing. While I am progressing it's so slow and galling that it feels more like grinding.
I think you need to be wired a certain way to like Dark Souls which is why I cringe a bit when I see people saying: "everyone should play it, you'll love it, it's the best thing ever!".Please don't use the delete button, think of the children.
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bitch_tits_zero_nine 4,893 posts
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Registered 2 years agoYeah, agree. -
ronuds 20,507 posts
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Registered 7 years agoI've never played DS and how its been described by people who say they "love" the game makes me not want to.
"OMG, you die sooooo much and it's not an entirely fair game. GOTY!"
Granted, I think the hand-holding in most games has reached ridiculous levels, but DS feels like it went the other way a bit too much.
Edited by ronuds at 13:53:04 04-01-2013 -
andytheadequate 7,065 posts
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Registered 2 years agoUncleLou wrote:
Not really the same. A better analogy would be comparing how the combat is a fps games work e.g. Cover shooters are different to games like halo, bulletstorn is different to CoD, vanquish is different to far cry etc. Even though shooting people occurs in all of them, each game requires massively different tactics and techniques to achieve it.andytheadequate wrote:
And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
Still, I see your point. Is it just that it does it better than other games? And if so, what is it that so massively improved? Ot are we just comparing it favourably because oblivion and skyrim had awful combat so it looks good in comparison?
Edit - bitch tits has explained it perfectly, cheers! Also, what a wonderful username!
Edited by andytheadequate at 13:58:46 04-01-2013 -
Rusty_M 3,598 posts
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Registered 6 years agoDark Souls is not a game everyone should play. It'd be like suggesting everyone should play DCS Black Shark or A-10.
Some people don't want to have to study to have fun. Others do. This is meant as observation, not criticism.The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.
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ronuds 20,507 posts
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Registered 7 years agoOne question that would need answering if I were to even dream of playing this game: How long of a gap in time is there between death and respawn?
Any more than 2 seconds and forget it. -
JoeBlade 2,208 posts
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Registered 10 years agoUncleLou wrote:
I understand Mr-Brett and the others' point of view though.Mr-Brett wrote:
Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.
Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
In many difficult games, there's just a hard cap: your skill. I can play something like Geometry Wars or Space Stardust HD for hours and still see the game over screen every 5 minutes. Does not mean they're shit games, but they're not for me.
There's a point where having to replay sections of a game begins to feel like cheap content rehashing and the slow progress becomes frustrating. I presume that threshold differs from player to player.
For me the threshold is lower still when the game provides no hints whatsoever towards the solution, so finishing a difficult section on the first go is outright impossible except through dumb luck. That and the "solution" being microsecond timing.
I won't ever be able to tell whether this holds true in for DS as that is apparently only playable with a controller (thus, to me, it isn't) but I see where they're coming from with their criticism. -
jonsaan 24,217 posts
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Registered 7 years agoLearning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.
This sounds a lot like the quest for anal with one's other half.FCUTA!
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JoeBlade 2,208 posts
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Registered 10 years agojonsaan wrote:
Jonsaan and the Quest for Anal, I like it. I'm considering creating a Kickstarter to get it made by Peter Jackson.
This sounds a lot like the quest for anal with one's other half. -
jonsaan 24,217 posts
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andytheadequate wrote:
A few thoughts: first of all, I think what DS does better than most games is indeed the melee combat. The way how different armour influences your ability to move and dodge, the way how different weapons handle very differently, based on their weight and different movesets that make sense for the respective weapon type, etc. I also like how combat is, mostly, slow, with "tactical" elements like stamina management.UncleLou wrote:
Not really the same. A better analogy would be comparing how the combat is a fps games work e.g. Cover shooters are different to games like halo, bulletstorn is different to CoD, vanquish is different to far cry etc. Even though shooting people occurs in all of them, each game requires massively different tactics and techniques to achieve it.andytheadequate wrote:
And pointing your crosshair at the enemy and pulling the trigger is the basis of every first and 3rd person shooter. Does not mean they are all the same, or equally good, does it.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
This is why I don't understand why everyone loves the combat. Waiting for the enemy to attack, block, then hit them back is the basis of nearly every single melee based combat game
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
Still, I see your point. Is it just that it does it better than other games? And if so, what is it that so massively improved? Ot are we just comparing it favourably because oblivion and skyrim had awful combat so it looks good in comparison?
Edit - bitch tits has explained it perfectly, cheers! Also, what a wonderful username!
It's neither an over-the-top action game like God of War (which I find much more difficult to play) with dozens of different button combos you have to learn, neither is it a simple "click to death" game like, say, the Elder Scrolls series.
I should also point out that I enjoy the "normal" combat a lot more than the boss encounters, which I am quite bad at and which I often only survive becasue I outlevel the content, so to speak.
Really, only a handful of games come to mind where I enjoyed the melee combat to a similar degree: Gothic 1/2 (where the combar was not nearly as good though), Severance, Mount & Blade maybe. I struggle to name more games where melee combat made much sense or was particularly fun for me.
"Not really the same. A better analogy would be comparing how the combat is a fps games work e.g. Cover shooters are different to games like halo, bulletstorn is different to CoD, vanquish is different to far cry etc. Even though shooting people occurs in all of them, each game requires massively different tactics and techniques to achieve it.
"
But, that *was* my point, so I am not sure it was a bad analogy. I just followed your example and took the very basics of the genre, with the intention to demonstrate that that does not mean much..gif)
Edited by UncleLou at 14:39:24 04-01-2013 -
Shikasama 4,564 posts
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Registered 4 years agoUncleLou wrote:
I think this is why I didn't get on so well with Dark Souls and couldn't be bothered to complete the NG+. After the Undead Burg the game felt like one big long QTE to me where the only dangers were either not being prescient with the environment or simply missing a queue and being splattered because things hit hard. I don't think I got 'better' at the game as such, I just remembered when to press right/left/stab.Mr-Brett wrote:
Learning and the success once you have learned it is part of the fun. That's one aspect why Dark Souls is so good: you can actually learn from your mistakes and get better, with patience being one of the virtues that helps a lot.SparkyMarky81 wrote:
Which you learn by failing over and over. Which is the bit that's not fun.
Dark Souls isn't that hard. The difficulty is knowing where to go and what to do next, not beating the enemies. I think I have died as many times playing Halo 4 as I have playing Dark Souls.
Just wait for the enemy to attack, block or dodge then return fire! Rinse and repeat.
Although I have said before that this might be due to my heavy armour, heavy shield pike set up that I didn't get the pants wettingly awesome DS experience a lot of other people did.
That bit where you walk into the painting was brilliant though. -
Civilisation games peaked at civ2.
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