PlayStation 4 Page 74

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  • Inertia 22 Feb 2013 17:35:12 677 posts
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    @ecureuil

    Ergonomics tests show that the offsetting of the sticks is a more relaxing posture for the hands over prolonged periods. Also the PS3 sticks are too long and have too much deadzone. And also it's too light and feels a bit cheap. The D-pad is better on the DS but irrelevant for almost every game. The 360 has I think weak shoulder buttons that should be improved and they should develop a much better d-pad. But it's pretty much the best controller yet.

    It's strange to say they both need vast improvements "especially the 360" when it's quite clearly the dual-shock that is the poorest controller by some way. I think the new DS looks alright, definitely an improvement, but it depends on the feel of the sticks and buttons.

    I hope MS don't go crazy on a redesign of the 360 controller because it wouldn't take much improvement to make it almost perfect.
  • oceanmotion 22 Feb 2013 17:48:26 16,129 posts
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    D-pad must be patented to hell. MS still insist on using the analogue stick rocker for the base, either cheap or they can't design it like others. They have redesigned it 4 times. Can't remember how the Duke faired but ever since the s-controller, I remember it being poor.
  • Feanor 22 Feb 2013 17:49:27 14,185 posts
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    Just so you know, putting "quite clearly" before an opinion doesn't turn it into a fact.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 22 Feb 2013 17:49:58 26,631 posts
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    The 360 pad is pretty much spot on for me. The only issue I have is the slightly awkward top buttons.

    I just don't get on with the PS3 pad. It's too small, the sticks feel loose, they're too close together with strafing to the right whilst turning to the left causing thumb clashes and the triggers are bollocks.

    The pad is pretty much the only reason I buy stuff on the 360 rather than the PS3, as I actually prefer the PS3 from an overall speed of use/UI/noise perspective.
  • fletch7100 22 Feb 2013 18:01:54 7,446 posts
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    Haven't got along with the playstation analog sticks since PS2 days. DS3 triggers made my knuckles hurt after 30mins or so. 360 pad no problems ever. So used a 360 pad converter with my PS3.

    Hopefully this new one is easier to adapt to

    As for the PS4 pad

    PlayStation Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida said the pad is "still in development in terms of final specs and design".

    "It's near final. It's just gonna be small tweaks being done," he told Engadget.

    Edited by fletch7100 at 18:03:52 22-02-2013
  • Inertia 22 Feb 2013 18:05:03 677 posts
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    @Feanor

    I do know thank you and if you want to state the opposite opinion go right ahead. But it is quite clear that the 360 pad is a much better design than the dual-shock. Much better designed. But not yet perfect. And that's not to say you prefer it.
  • neilka 22 Feb 2013 18:05:30 16,559 posts
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    Wonder how easy it is to fit up your bottom?

    BAAANG!!!!! EXPLOTION!!!!!

  • Inertia 22 Feb 2013 18:09:53 677 posts
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    Why duplicate the experiment? How far did it go?
  • roz123 22 Feb 2013 18:18:03 7,113 posts
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    Lexx87 wrote:
    roz123 wrote:
    One of those Taiwan news videos about the PS4 event
    \o/ taiwan news is amazing.
    The bit with the gun made me lol at work
  • ecu 22 Feb 2013 18:18:35 77,338 posts
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    Inertia wrote:
    @ecureuil

    Ergonomics tests show that the offsetting of the sticks is a more relaxing posture for the hands over prolonged periods. Also the PS3 sticks are too long and have too much deadzone. And also it's too light and feels a bit cheap. The D-pad is better on the DS but irrelevant for almost every game. The 360 has I think weak shoulder buttons that should be improved and they should develop a much better d-pad. But it's pretty much the best controller yet.

    It's strange to say they both need vast improvements "especially the 360" when it's quite clearly the dual-shock that is the poorest controller by some way. I think the new DS looks alright, definitely an improvement, but it depends on the feel of the sticks and buttons.

    I hope MS don't go crazy on a redesign of the 360 controller because it wouldn't take much improvement to make it almost perfect.
    Nope, don't agree that it's quite clearly the poorest. It's the one that gives me the fewest issues but I don't love it. Best console controller ever is still this one imo. Dual shock is still a very good controller and it appears to have been improved for PS4.

    The 360 pad is far more irritating to me, the shonky d-pad, the squeaky, flappy triggers, and the really shitty analog sticks that drift and have a dead zone that is at least equal to those on current dual shock (they have a much reduced dead zone now, but the accuracy of the sticks could be further improved). The issues arise mostly in Battlefield, if I try to snipe, the stick drift throws my aim. If I try to use the d-pad, 50% of the time I'll have the wrong thing selected. In less competitive games you can overlook the problems somewhat, when you die for the 200th time because your controller selected down when you actually pressed left then it's really frustrating. I'm expecting, and hoping, they'll have finally cracked the d-pad issue for the new Xbox.

    I also find the 360 controller to be exceptionally uncomfortable if you try to settle a finger on each shoulder button. I tend to use only my index fingers on the shoulder buttons with a 360 controller, this is one area where I do prefer the dual shock. I think the smaller size allows for a better grip over all the buttons at the expense of it sitting in your palm a little less comfortably. It's mostly the build quality I take issue with on the 360 controller, the design is sound.
  • Inertia 22 Feb 2013 18:25:58 677 posts
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    I agree the shoulder buttons are a problem, more so than the dpad, as they are used more often in games. It sometimes feels unnatural, especially the left hand shoulder button.
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Feb 2013 18:28:17 11,936 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    The controller looks fantastic tbh, it seems to be very comfortable. The grips seem chunkier and I think it'll have a bigger impact on the feel of the controller than many realise.

    I hope the sticks are good quality. They're not quite concave but they're better than before, and the triggers are now concave so they should be a little better, so that's two complaints they've addressed. The positioning of the sticks is fine too, I don't feel the Xbox controller has better positioned sticks, it's more of a case of whatever you're used to. After playing a PS3 game for many hours, the Xbox controller sticks feel so wrong, and vice versa. Dual shock works well in that there's no 'primary' position for the buttons or sticks, they're equally accessible, whereas on the Xbox controller, the left analog stick is clearly prioritised over the d-pad. I've actually had to buy stick extenders to make the Xbox controller properly workable, but you don't really need them on the dual shock. Both controllers have needed vast improvements, especially the Xbox 360 one, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done with it.
    I agree with most of this, well put.

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  • King_Edward 22 Feb 2013 18:30:08 11,471 posts
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    I'm intrigued by these "ergonomics tests" that "proved" that the human right hand thumb is naturally lower than the human left hand thumb.
  • Ron_Justice 22 Feb 2013 18:34:36 2,488 posts
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    Inertia wrote:
    @ecureuil

    Ergonomics tests show that the offsetting of the sticks is a more relaxing posture for the hands over prolonged periods.
    Source?

    Steam/Origin - Ron_Justice
    PSN - hyper_808

  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 18:54:10 79,216 posts
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    Shame it's not in the least bit funny beyond the visuals.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 19:02:08 22-02-2013

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  • SparkyMarky81 22 Feb 2013 19:02:45 567 posts
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    Here's a really nice explanation of exactly why the PS4 (and next xbox too) will keep up with gaming PCs for the next few years, courtesy of Slashdot.

    I think it makes for a very interesting read.


    PCs have a stonking great discrete GPU that plugs into the motherboard, and requires its own connection(s) to the PSU. Now what if this graphics card, with fantastically massive RAM bandwidths that Intel can only dream about, suddenly had EIGHT x86 CPU cores inserted into the GPU chip? What if this graphic card was given a 'Southbridge' chip for all the usual inputs and outputs found on the motherboard? Obviously, the graphics card would become the entire PC, with no need for the motherboard at all.

    This is what AMD has created. NOT a CPU with inbuilt graphics that need to share a horrendously slow CPU bus (2x64 bits), but a GPU with inbuilt CPU cores, sharing an insanely fast GPU RAM bus, and using a common memory addressing model (HSA).

    AMDs designs are light-years beyond those from Intel. Intel's great plan is to build a CPU with a massive companion RAM chip die for the GPU, just like the PlayStation 2 (yes TWO- you know that long obsolete console from many years ago). This Intel CPU is so mega-expensive, only ultra pricey laptops can afford to use it, but none will because ultra pricey laptops need graphics from ATI or Nvidia in order to sell. In other words, Intel's new Haswell GPU initiative is a bust before the first chip even hits the market.

    Now the market awaits AMD to become really sane, and sell complete single board PC solutions that follow the design philosophy of the PS4- in other words a single board designed around the GPU, with 8GB of GPU memory soldered on, and the CPU cores contained within the GPU, leeching of the unified HSA GPU bus. Obviously these single-board PC systems can use far more powerful GPU designs than the PS4 because they will need far more power and cooling.

    Now that the CPU no longer has to render graphics or decode video, the CPU is left with less and less to do on the PCs used by 99.9% of people, driving Intel's advantage into the ground. Metrics like GPU performance and memory bandwidth are increasingly important, even outside of games. The collapse of the price of DRAM means that memory should have been provided soldered to the motherboard years back, allowing much better quality of data signal = bigger possible bandwidth. Simple computer science 'cache' theory shows that very few people will benefit from more than 8GB, and this 8GB of DRAM should be acting as a level-4 cache to the SSD drive anyway.

    Expect the new consoles to cause a massive re-think of the design of the desktop PC, to Intel's extreme disadvantage. Sony and MS are not mugs, and went to AMD for an entire PC-based solution for a very good reason. And both are building products designed to have a 7+ year lifetime.
  • mal 22 Feb 2013 19:03:59 22,843 posts
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    oceanmotion wrote:
    D-pad must be patented to hell. MS still insist on using the analogue stick rocker for the base, either cheap or they can't design it like others. They have redesigned it 4 times. Can't remember how the Duke faired but ever since the s-controller, I remember it being poor.
    All d-pads are pretty much mechanically the same - from the NES to the PS3 and everything in between. The only real difference is the cutout at the top, and the various tolerances. The Nintendo and Sony d-pads have plastic covering the disc, on Nintendo's systems in the shape of a cross, and the Playstation in the form of separate buttons - but it's still a solid disc of plastic underneath.

    I suspect the issue with the xbox dpads is that when you hit e.g. down in the middle, while that compresses the rubber cap over the down contact, it also deforms the left and right caps to the point where they're ready to collapse, and it's too easy to slip over to diagonal down-left or down-right - there's little to no resistance. To fix that you'll need to move the contacts and the caps further from the center of the d-pad, so the ratio of d-pad diameter to vertical movement is bigger.

    TLDR MS don't care about their d-pad, so it'll always be shit.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 19:05:50 79,216 posts
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    Except it's a load of shit that comes across like it was written 10 years ago, it's that far behind the curve.

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  • ronuds 22 Feb 2013 19:06:38 21,788 posts
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    I think the DS3's just fine - my only wishes being they move the sticks more toward the outer edge of the controller and added a little weight to it. I can't see that they're so different as to hate either one, imo.

    I don't know how anyone got on with that GC controller, though. Abominable! It was the worst I've used aside from this...



    Admittedly, maybe more time with the GC one would have made me feel better with it.
  • wobbly_Bob 22 Feb 2013 19:13:57 1,898 posts
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    I'm one of the minority that really like the dual shock over the 360 pad. I find the 360 pad too heavy and chunky. Personally I think the sticks on the dual shock have a greater degree between nothing and full. Also I prefer shooting with the bumper buttons.
  • Deleted user 22 February 2013 19:21:05
    Canít wait for the PS4 to arrive, it sounds like it is going to be impressive, probably better than what M$ have lined up, but who knows. Besides, I donít want to go starting a fan war before either companies have it out there. Heh.

    The PS4 controller: It looks better, obviously, than the prototype thatís been doing the rounds, (presumably the dev-kit controller). Iím not all that sold on it aesthetically. Obviously it has a job to do, and Sony crammed an whole lot of goodieís into it, that could not have been squeezed into the controller most of us have come to view as the perfect controller (the PS1, PS2, PS3 controller).

    Iím assuming PS4 gen will offer at all times proper Hi-Def resolution gaming, and no 720 upscale. Iíd like to also think there will be zero screen tearing, decent shadows (something the PS3 seemed not so good at) and 60fps.

    What I really want to see was, what the console looks like. That is the one thing I really wanted to see. In my mind I want to see something as hardcore as the PS2 design, combined with the expensive build materials of the original PS3 console. Who knows..

    The games: To be honest, Killzone donít interest me. The PS2 game burned me, and the PS3 demo failed to impress. I gave it a miss. Games I hope to play on the PS4 include The Last of Us, The Last Guardian, Gran Turismo, a new Uncharted adventure, and I wouldnít mind playing Heavy Rain again.. ..and Watch Dogs looks interesting..

    Since I sold my PS3, and am using my PS2, the PS4 canít come soon enough..
  • Feanor 22 Feb 2013 19:24:53 14,185 posts
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    Inertia wrote:
    @Feanor

    I do know thank you and if you want to state the opposite opinion go right ahead. But it is quite clear that the 360 pad is a much better design than the dual-shock. Much better designed. But not yet perfect. And that's not to say you prefer it.
    Again, "quite clear" in this context means nothing more than "my opinion". Maybe you could link to these ergonomic tests you mentioned.

    I like both controllers about the same because neither is perfect. I have successfully played PES with the 360 pad and shooters with the Dual Shock despite many people swearing up and down those games don't work right on those controllers.
  • ResidentKnievel 22 Feb 2013 19:31:09 6,294 posts
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    You'd think with all that physics stuff the PS4 is capable of that the grenades in Killzone would damage the environment.

    I really can't see Killzone 4 being anything special gameplay wise, it'll look pretty but it's going to be corridors and on-rail sections galore.

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • cubbymoore 22 Feb 2013 19:33:09 36,507 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Except it's a load of shit that comes across like it was written 10 years ago, it's that far behind the curve.
    I wish I was cool like you.
  • ResidentKnievel 22 Feb 2013 19:34:05 6,294 posts
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    Sony and MS are not mugs, and went to AMD for an entire PC-based solution for a very good reason.
    That reason being they were the lowest bidder

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 19:41:54 79,216 posts
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    Haha, exactly.

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  • King_Edward 22 Feb 2013 19:42:15 11,471 posts
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    ResidentKnievel wrote:
    You'd think with all that physics stuff the PS4 is capable of that the grenades in Killzone would damage the environment.
    I wouldn't think that. Not even for a second did I think that.
  • ronuds 22 Feb 2013 19:44:24 21,788 posts
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    I didn't think it until now.
  • SparkyMarky81 22 Feb 2013 19:44:40 567 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Haha, exactly.
    Ever considered that the people who design these things are much smarter than you?
  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 19:45:01 79,216 posts
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    When you say physics stuff, do you mean that shitty havok demo from several years ago that they showed?

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