The Vita may just be a success, but.....

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  • neil74 27 Feb 2012 14:33:02 2,306 posts
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    I just picked up a Vita this weekend, I am very impressed but a part of me is wondering if I have backed a loser and the concord article on IGN is an interesting read.

    I think if Apple had really put their mind to games they could have put a serious spanner in the Vita’s works, for example an official fully supported etc "iController" for the iPad would have enabled something akin to proper games on the iPad or iPhone and with the installed ios user base Sony & Nintendo would have problems. As it is though, Apple it seems are not after this market so I think the Vita has a real chance but I do think Sony can (finances permitting) can do a lot to help this. Here’s my view on what they could do.

    - Piracy was widespread on the PSP, it stopped many people buying the games that were made and stopped developers I'm sure making games they otherwise might have done. Sony cannot stop the vita being hacked but they can do more to limit the impact when it does.

    - Game prices. We live in the age of 69p games on the iPad and whilst people recognize the quality difference this does subconsciously I think limit what people will pay and I am not sure a portable format can support games priced at £40 or more.
    - PS1 games. You can buy them on the PSP and I think the sooner these are available the better.
    - PS2 games. There is a huge back catalogue here and surely the Vita could handle PS2 emulation?
    - PS3 games. People have historically frowned upon porting, personally though I’d love to see the top PS3 games ported over to the Vita. If you had this along with PS1, PS2, PSP and original Vita games then there would be some serious choice

    Edited by neil74 at 14:33:20 27-02-2012
  • Gregolution 27 Feb 2012 14:39:06 3,164 posts
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    neil74 wrote:
    I just picked up a Vita this weekend, I am very impressed but a part of me is wondering if I have backed a loser and the concord article on IGN is an interesting read.
    I haven't listed to a word that horrific website has said in years now. They're a bunch of idiots.

    neil74 wrote:
    - Game prices. We live in the age of 69p games on the iPad and whilst people recognize the quality difference this does subconsciously I think limit what people will pay and I am not sure a portable format can support games priced at £40 or more.
    The top 2 games in the all format charts are full price Vita games. There is a market for it.
  • Popzeus 27 Feb 2012 14:39:23 8,272 posts
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    Can't argue with any of those ideas, especially PS2 games and more Vita ports of PS3 titles - especially the Sony exclusives. Uncharted and Wipeout have whetted my appetite, but not enough to justify buying a PS3 when all the multiplatform stuff works better on the 360 I already have.

    Don't think any of these are things that would make the system more likely to succeed, though, more just things that would be a cherry on the top for people who were going to buy one anyway.

    Currently playing: Standing In A Car Park Simulator 2013

  • Deleted user 27 February 2012 14:40:43
    Can people stop talking about iDevice games like they are a real thing?

    Shitty shovelware, the lot of it.
  • Kill_Crazy 27 Feb 2012 14:47:48 2,287 posts
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    An ipad and a controller won't be very portable, they're also already usable and available for android devices (possibly i devices, not sure) and haven't really taken off. Think I'll stick to the Vita..... for now!
  • THFourteen 27 Feb 2012 14:48:26 32,855 posts
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    Kill_Crazy wrote:
    An ipad and a controller won't be very portable, they're also already usable and available for android devices (possibly i devices, not sure) and haven't really taken off. Think I'll stick to the Vita..... for now!
    /see project fiona
  • Tricky 27 Feb 2012 15:27:23 4,354 posts
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    Gregolution wrote:
    The top 2 games in the all format charts are full price Vita games. There is a market for it.
    In the launch week for the console at an otherwise quiet time of year and following the recent news that it doesn't take a huge amount of units sold these days to reach the top of the charts:

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-23-uk-retail-game-sales-half-of-what-they-should-be

    Think I'll wait a bit longer before deciding that there's definitely a market for it :-)
  • ElNino9 27 Feb 2012 15:31:17 13,285 posts
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    spudsbuckley wrote:
    Can people stop talking about iDevice games like they are a real thing?

    Shitty shovelware, the lot of it.
    Burn it, burn it with fire.

    I get iOS gaming, but it isn't for me at all.

    Hated, adored, never ignored.

  • Deleted user 27 February 2012 15:33:55
    PS3 can;t emulate PS2 games properly, dunno what chance the Vita has without the games being remastered further.
  • UncleLou Moderator 27 Feb 2012 15:37:32 35,421 posts
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    spudsbuckley wrote:
    Can people stop talking about iDevice games like they are a real thing?

    Shitty shovelware, the lot of it.
    Just because you have your head in the sand does not mean it's not a valid point for discussion.
  • neil74 27 Feb 2012 15:40:56 2,306 posts
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    I know there are controllers available for the ipad and iphone but it would have to be official for developers to code for it, if not all we are going to get are the 99p rubbish that we have so far. Personally I just cannot play games on the ipad or iphone (except angry birds)

    I do not understand the development involved in porting say a PS3 game over vs developing a brand new game or how easy/difficult it would be to emulate or port PS2 games. Hopefully moving forward any new 360/PS3 games will also have a Vita version which is something that was rare with the PSP.
  • neil74 27 Feb 2012 15:43:32 2,306 posts
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    Boab wrote:
    PS3 can;t emulate PS2 games properly, dunno what chance the Vita has without the games being remastered further.
    This is an interesting point. I did briefly own a PS3 and the PS2 games that I played all seemed to run ok. No idea if the Vita has the horsepower or not?
  • Darren 27 Feb 2012 15:44:57 8,697 posts
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    I've never bought an Apple product in my life as I find them too expensive compared with rival products. They aren't always better anyway, just popular because Apple have made a career out of selling stylish products at silly prices.

    The PSV hardware itself is a one-off cost so £200 can be justified easily, particularly with the quality of the screen and fact that it is a proper portable console in miniature form, unlike mobile phones, iPads or even Nintendo's own handhelds. That is what attracted me to it in the first place. From a week with the PSV, I certainly do not regret buying it. It is an incredible and desirable piece of kit.

    The biggest spanner in the works for the PSV is, IMO, the price of the games. The PS Store-only ones such as Super Stardust Delta and Motorstorm RC are terrific value but asking £45 RRP for games like FIFA Football and Uncharted: Golden Abyss, no matter how good they are, is not the way to go. I think the games should cost £30 RRP maximum as they will clearly be cheaper to develop. Just because the PSV is as good as a portable console, does not mean charging the same prices for games as the 360/PS3.

    And UbiSoft should be deeply ashamed of themselves for selling 99p Apple games such as Dungeon Hunter: Alliance and Asphalt Injector at £30; the PS3 version of the former is 'only' £9.99 on the PS Store!!! What possible excuse is there for charging three times the price for the exact same game?

    Also, I think Sony have shot themselves a bit in the foot by offering all the PSV's games as downloads on the PS Store but forcing people to buy their stupidly expensive proprietary memory cards. £23 can buy you a 32 GB SD card but the 16 GB PSV memory card costs almost twice that for half the capacity! With memory prices like that then it makes downloading games a less attractive prospect IMO even if you store unplayed games on your PS3 or PC (it's still hassle backing and restoring them).

    Edited by Darren at 15:49:37 27-02-2012

    PS3, PS4, PS Vita, Wii U, Xbox One, PC (Intel Core i7-4770K, 16 GB, 3 GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780, Windows 8.1 Pro), iPad 4, iPad mini with Retina Display.

  • Deleted user 27 February 2012 15:45:45
    Early PS3s had BC because they contained actual PS2 components. None since have that functionality.
  • Darren 27 Feb 2012 15:48:24 8,697 posts
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    Boab wrote:
    PS3 can;t emulate PS2 games properly, dunno what chance the Vita has without the games being remastered further.
    Zero I'd say.

    I suspect we will see PS2 games on the PSV - Final Fantasy X is supposed to be coming according to Wikipedia - but they'll be converted across to run on the hardware not emulated. PSone games should run fine with emulation though.

    PS3, PS4, PS Vita, Wii U, Xbox One, PC (Intel Core i7-4770K, 16 GB, 3 GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780, Windows 8.1 Pro), iPad 4, iPad mini with Retina Display.

  • UncleLou Moderator 27 Feb 2012 15:48:28 35,421 posts
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    neil74 wrote:
    I know there are controllers available for the ipad and iphone but it would have to be official for developers to code for it, if not all we are going to get are the 99p rubbish that we have so far. Personally I just cannot play games on the ipad or iphone (except angry birds)
    I guess it depends on what genres you're into. There seems to be a vocal minority who think the only games worth playing are action-adventures where you need buttons. Never understood that. Games like Avadon: The Black Fortress are as "hardcore" as they come, and absolutely need no buttons. Neither do the puzzle/adventure and boardgames where the idevices absolutely shine.

    Edited by UncleLou at 15:49:13 27-02-2012
  • Popzeus 27 Feb 2012 15:55:52 8,272 posts
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    Darren wrote:
    Just because the PSV is as good as a portable console, does not mean charging the same prices for games as the 360/PS3.
    But... to look at it the other way, because the PSV is as good as a portable console, the cost of developing a AAA game to take advantage of the hardware will be closer to the cost of developing for 360/PS3 than the cost of developing for 3DS or PSP, never mind iOS. If that money can't be recouped through sales, the games won't get made.

    Currently playing: Standing In A Car Park Simulator 2013

  • neil74 27 Feb 2012 15:58:29 2,306 posts
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    It is all down to the games that you want to play. Personally I want to see action & adventure games, FPS or decent RPGs such as oblivion or Mass Effect.
  • el_pollo_diablo 27 Feb 2012 16:01:08 2,064 posts
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    spudsbuckley wrote:
    Can people stop talking about iDevice games like they are a real thing?
    Shitty shovelware, the lot of it.
    Nonsense. There's some awesome stuff on iOS. Why do people think that because something is cheap (i.e. 69p cheap), then it must be rubbish. It's just not true.

    To say nothing of that fact that serious, disruptive competition like the app store is making people like Sony and Nintendo work that much harder for our money, which is good for everyone.
  • cianchristopher 27 Feb 2012 16:02:07 6,360 posts
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    Are there any good Age of Empires kinda games on the iPad? I have Civ Rev, but I don't really play it all that much. I'm not even sure why, it's acutally quite good. Maybe something that's less-Civilization and more-RTS is what I'm after.
  • neil74 27 Feb 2012 16:05:17 2,306 posts
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    Popzeus wrote:
    Darren wrote:
    Just because the PSV is as good as a portable console, does not mean charging the same prices for games as the 360/PS3.
    But... to look at it the other way, because the PSV is as good as a portable console, the cost of developing a AAA game to take advantage of the hardware will be closer to the cost of developing for 360/PS3 than the cost of developing for 3DS or PSP, never mind iOS. If that money can't be recouped through sales, the games won't get made.
    If that is the case then I think the vita will really struggle.

    Maybe I am ignorant to what is involved but you'd hope that the relative cost for development of a multi-platform title would be lower than a PS Vita exclusive?

    I just do not see a £40+ price point working.
  • roz123 27 Feb 2012 16:06:03 7,112 posts
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    I still have yet to see any proof that the iPhone and similar devices are having a massive negative impact on dedicated handheld gaming. The DS sold really well during the rise of the smartphones (when the iPhone was released the DS had only sold 35million units, it went on to sell 150 million) and the 3DS managed to sell 15 million in less then a year.

    I also think the iPhone gaming market is hyped up to be a lot more then it actually is. We get articles from Angry Birds devs and Epic about their sales but not many else and even on dedicated gaming sites good iOS games are not often a major topic of conversation.
    Take a look at this article about how the UK spent its money on gaming in 2011.

    Boxed software: £1.42 billion
    Mobile games: £158 million
  • chrisno21 27 Feb 2012 16:10:55 1,456 posts
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    The PSN prices are silly, I was hoping that they wouldn't be full RRP and would be viable, turns out Sony think we'd like to pay for the privilege of not owning any physical media. It has the advantage of not having to swap cards but surely no one will pay 44.99 for FIFA when its 34.99 online and in some stores.

    Can't just be retail pressure keeping prices this high.

    PSN/NNID: chrisno21
    twitter: @NumbersFox

  • Deleted user 27 February 2012 16:14:18
    Yet some of of the games are reasonably priced...
  • Chopsen 27 Feb 2012 16:19:12 15,701 posts
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    I'm not sure you're comparing like for like when comparing iOS to Vita.

    Vita is like having a proper console with a proper controller in your hand. The kind of people who care about those kind of things are a niche market.

    iOS devices are not a niche device. They are ubiquitous and mass market, targeted squarely at average joe bloogs in the street. Normal people, who are good looking and if they have facial hair, it means they're a man, and it's there by purpose, not by neglect. The kind of happy smiley families you see in Nintendo adverts.

    What I'm saying is, iOS is more of a threat to 3DS because they are going after the same demographic - women, children and men who think like women or children.

    Vita appeals to socially backward technologically obsessive deviants who quite possibly live underground. That is why I like mine. Long may it continue.
  • Dougs 27 Feb 2012 16:19:58 66,601 posts
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    :D
  • Deleted user 27 February 2012 16:23:04
    A lot of the IOS games are getting mac releases with controller support, doesn't make the majority of them any better mind.
  • Tricky 27 Feb 2012 16:23:22 4,354 posts
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    roz123 wrote:
    Boxed software: £1.42 billion
    Mobile games: £158 million
    Hmmm yes, but just to unrealistically address those figures a bit...

    For mobile, if you take the reasonably obvious conclusion that that £158 million is comprised of sales of units costing £0.69 then you're looking at 225.7 million units sold.

    For boxed, divide that £1.42 billion by, let's say, an average price of £35 then you're looking at 40 million units sold. Even if you knock that average price down a bit (accounting for pre-owned, sales etc.) then you're nowhere near the level of units that are sold through mobile.

    The really interesting study would be in finding the break-even point for the consumer - how much further up in RRP could you go before that unit volume would drop off dramatically?
  • Deleted user 27 February 2012 16:25:00
    UncleLou wrote:
    spudsbuckley wrote:
    Can people stop talking about iDevice games like they are a real thing?

    Shitty shovelware, the lot of it.
    Just because you have your head in the sand does not mean it's not a valid point for discussion.
    Yes, i'm so far behind the cheapo, shitty, browser-Flash-game rip off market i should be ashamed of myself.

    Proper gamers will never dump their consoles to play stuff on their iPad.
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