Next generation of consoles come in Page 10

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  • Psychotext 12 Jan 2013 20:20:20 54,820 posts
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    Yes, that's the only weakness it had. Bless you and all your little cotton socks.
  • richardiox 12 Jan 2013 20:21:07 5,714 posts
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    Vizzini, do you ever speak in anything other than hypothetical terms?

    Hypothetically the Cell powered PS3 is, in your words, is a " God" console. In reality it struggles to even render in HD on way too many major releases. But you blame the whole games development industry rather than Sony's hardware choices.

    You could actually get a job with them with your pie in the sky technical hypothetics and expectations for an entire industry to tailor itself to a specific product rather than the product being tailored for the industry.

    What do you do for a living by the way?
  • Deleted user 12 January 2013 20:24:03
    @richardiox

    I thought you liked Planetside 2. The one PC game that actually uses CPUs to make the game run better. Is that not the case any more?
  • richardiox 12 Jan 2013 20:25:55 5,714 posts
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    Also Viz, what major games in development use ray tracing - the thing you say Cell is best suited to? Again, hypothetics and irrelevant to the games industry at the moment. And yet it's ask you've fucking posted about for the last month.
  • richardiox 12 Jan 2013 20:28:48 5,714 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    @richardiox

    I thought you liked Planetside 2. The one PC game that actually uses CPUs to make the game run better. Is that not the case any more?
    What the hell does that have to do with anything?! And yeah its OK but a bit too chaotic for my liking.

    Also " the one PC game that uses CPUs to make the game run better" - WTF?
  • Lukus 12 Jan 2013 20:33:13 19,366 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    @richardiox

    I thought you liked Planetside 2. The one PC game that actually uses CPUs to make the game run better. Is that not the case any more?

    I work in Blockbusters.
    Edited by Lukus at 20:33:25 12-01-2013

    Paintings & Photographs

  • richardiox 12 Jan 2013 20:36:33 5,714 posts
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    After claiming he worked in games development in a comments thread he was making a fool of himself in (quelle surprise) I've seen him dodge that question a half dozen times.
  • ResidentKnievel 12 Jan 2013 22:40:15 6,259 posts
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    Cell was a waste of silicon, Sony were idiots to waste money on it. They could have used a smaller, more conventional CPU, spent more of their silicon budget on a better GPU and wiped the floor with the 360 and it wouldn't have cost a stupid amount to manufacture.

    It seems they've learned from their mistakes and are going for less exotic hardware, although 4GB of GDDR5 does still sound a bit crazy.

    The rumoured Microsoft console should be really cheap for them to make, depending on how much embedded RAM they use.

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • RobTheBuilder 12 Jan 2013 23:15:03 6,521 posts
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    @ResidentKnievel agreed, although Blu Ray was significant factor in cost too.
  • L0cky 13 Jan 2013 00:22:39 1,552 posts
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    Using Cell also means they're going to have a damn hard time with BC. That wasn't so much of a problem in the previous gen but now people have PSN games they will expect to still be able to play.
  • Deleted user 13 January 2013 00:35:27
    ResidentKnievel wrote:
    Cell was a waste of silicon, Sony were idiots to waste money on it. They could have used a smaller, more conventional CPU, spent more of their silicon budget on a better GPU and wiped the floor with the 360 and it wouldn't have cost a stupid amount to manufacture.
    @ResidentKnievel

    At a one dimensional view it makes perfect sense why you'd say that, but when you look at the way it changed medical research for sequencing, it sounds kind of silly.

    As a vehicle to enter the CPU manufacturing market, it has been a success for Sony on the performance/power scale, given that a few of the world's fastest and greenest supercomputers are still powered by the Cell BE many years later.

    It is still perfect for complex game physics, particle fx, real-time compression, inteligent post processing, ray tracing, signal analysis(image and audio), password cracking, and the PS3 is still on target to get first spot in 2years time, and wrap up the generation with tens of millions of units more sold in 3 (5? 7?) years time.

    They also set out use the technology over multi generations to reduce long term R&D costs and risk. It would be completely idiotic by Kaz if he abandoned that $500m investment in R&D, and the $400m they paid to buy the fabrication plant back from Toshiba 2years ago. They might as well just start burning shares.
  • Deleted user 13 January 2013 00:40:00
    vizzini wrote:
    the PS3 is still on target to get first spot in 2years time
    The very definition of pyrrhic victory, I suppose.
  • Psychotext 13 Jan 2013 00:51:39 54,820 posts
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    Yeah... I still really don't know how that's going to go next gen. It'll certainly affect how quickly I buy the machines though (BC = bought much earlier).
  • richardiox 13 Jan 2013 00:54:58 5,714 posts
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    "At a one dimensional view it makes perfect sense why you'd say that, but when you look at the way it changed medical research for sequencing, it sounds kind of silly."

    Fucking LOL. Hypothetical again. We're talking gaming usage not medical research or password cracking (!!!!) you idiot. It's like when you were trying to get that guy in the PC thread to buy a workstation GPU as it theoretically had more power. The whole time being oblivious to the fact we're talking gaming usage, and that the GPUs you linked to we're inferior for that purpose, For that reason the CELL in PS3 was a costly and epic fail.

    If the Cell is so all conquering why does the PS3 so regularly underperform? Also, which PS3 titles use ray tracing?!

    "As a vehicle to enter the CPU market it has been a massive success" - how many devices are powered by Sony CPU's then?

    Love it how it always come back to the fact you're a massive Sony fanboy. Tens of millions more units sold than Wii and 360 in 3 years time? The 360 is still outselling the PS3 2 to 1 in the biggest gaming territory. Get a grip man

    Edited by richardiox at 00:56:35 13-01-2013
  • Deleted user 13 January 2013 01:03:15
    @richardiox

    At what point does “waste of silicon” just mean games?
  • richardiox 13 Jan 2013 01:10:17 5,714 posts
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    At the point we"re discussing games consoles you dick. Like I say, you always resort to off topic hypothetics. When was the last time you used your PS3 for password cracking?!!

    Cell may be good for "medical research" but there's an embarrassingly large catalogue of PS3 games that run like shit - on a machine you say is a console "made by god". A point I've never seen you acknowledge.

    It's very telling you rarely talk about games on Eurogamer, only the theoretics and hypothetics of the tech. Meanwhile the console whose name you have tattooed on your face can't even run GTA/COD/MGS4 etc in HD. Can it?
  • Jazzy_Geoff 13 Jan 2013 01:12:15 7,781 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Yeah... I still really don't know how that's going to go next gen. It'll certainly affect how quickly I buy the machines though (BC = bought much earlier).
    Yup. I'll probably buy the first next gen console on release if it has BC because I can just swap it into the space occupied by the previous model, switch the wires around and I'm done. Can still play all my games, the old console can be sold, scrapped or whatever. If there is no BC I'm going to be reluctant to get rid of one box for which I have a large library for another which will doubtless come with a load of pretty, yet shite glorified tech demos and rushed ports of games I already own. So I won't. I'll wait until the gap in quality is too big to ignore or maybe not bother at all. BC is very important to me. It's one of the best things about steam.
  • Whizzo 13 Jan 2013 01:16:35 43,275 posts
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    BC is certainly important to me, I only got around to getting a PS3 just before Christmas because it was cheap, if it still had BC I'd have bought one years ago once the pricing dropped to something that wasn't wallet busting.

    Can't see the PS4 being BC with all the changes that are on the cards, next Xbox is much more likely to be fully BC as Microsoft own all the tech in it this time around.

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • RobTheBuilder 13 Jan 2013 01:17:02 6,521 posts
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    If both consoles have DRM that locks out used-games it will be WiiU and PC only for me this oncoming gen.
  • Deleted user 13 January 2013 01:21:52
    It's made by god in the same way wasps are made by god. Useless, annoying tossers.
  • Jazzy_Geoff 13 Jan 2013 01:26:09 7,781 posts
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    With the playstation I'm sort of hoping that the price of just lobbing a cell in the machine as well as the new processor won't be that prohibitive.
  • captainrentboy 13 Jan 2013 01:32:04 1,062 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    richardiox: WRONG. Vizzini has, on multiple occasions, guaranteed it will use a variant of Cell.

    I didn't quite put it exactly that way, but I do believe it would take a pretty spectacular piece of backward thinking by Kaz to build a PC like PS4, while abandoning the Cell BE's EiB and Synergistic Cores R&D.

    As it turns out, the only reason IBM stopped using Cell BE, was because Sony's priority was lowering power consumption, rather than volume producing increased performance chips(which was IBM's priority). By the time they were using 45nm in the Cell BE, the OpenCL Gpu hardware had reached a specification 1.2 (with fermi/kepler) and so it was more performance (and cost effective) to sell Tesla based blades to IBM customers.

    As the IBM Cell BE supercomputers (like roadrunner) are getting old enough for refits, I expect a new revision of the Cell BE chips(eg version 3), to coincide with IBM/Sony volume producing chips for Playstation 4. Then expect to see IBM repeat their success in the TOP500 and GREEN500 for two years.

    edit: for typos, not to jazz it up ;)
    They were possibly the most boring 4 lines of words I've ever read.... Ever.
  • Psychotext 13 Jan 2013 01:34:27 54,820 posts
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    How wide is your monitor ffs!

    I assume you meant paragraphs
  • Bremenacht 13 Jan 2013 02:05:51 19,415 posts
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    meme wrote:
    vizzini wrote:
    the PS3 is still on target to get first spot in 2years time
    The very definition of pyrrhic victory, I suppose.
    The PS3 will win! (after the 720 has launched and they've stopped making 360s) Hurrah for Sony! Hurrah!
  • Ultrasoundwave 16 Jan 2013 08:56:59 3,398 posts
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    Probably not the most reliable of sources, but MTV are saying that the next gen consoles will be revealed in late March.

    Is it possible we would get a teaser before E3?

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

  • Blerk Moderator 16 Jan 2013 09:06:19 48,225 posts
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    Plenty of other sources spinning the same rumours this week as well, pitching special announcement shows in or around the Game Developer Conference.

    Wonder if it'll be a race to announce first now? Or if it'll be precisely the opposite - no-one wants to go first, so it's a game of announcement chicken.
  • Psychotext 16 Jan 2013 09:24:16 54,820 posts
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    I imagine announcing last will probably work best as long as it's not too close to release. Can ride the hype wave all the way as long as it's managed properly.

    What they don't want is what happened to the Wii U. Announce with so few details and hype that everyone forgot about it when it arrived.
  • Ron_Justice 16 Jan 2013 13:33:39 2,484 posts
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    I wrote this yesterday in the PS4 Hardware thread but seeing as that's a bit of a mess right now I figured I'd post here. Not only that, it's a more general query anyway.

    Anyway, balls to all the vizzini stuff, although he certainly is nuts deep into Sony for some reason. EDIT:(Strangely, the vizzini stuff appears to be in here as well!) Balls to the potential difference / similarities between the PS4 and the 720. Fuck who's going to win the next gen or even which company will survive the next 10 years.

    I want to know if either company is going to manage to bring to market something that is truly contemporary - both technologically and in terms of the media it gives us access to.

    How are the new consoles / platform holders going to deal with the way we consume media now, if at all? How are they going to react to us having media in our pocket - phones & tablets - all the time? Are they going to be pure games machines? Will they strengthen the established connections with the likes of netflix etc? or shun that in favor of focusing on gaming? (I suspect the former)

    Given Smart Phones & tablets have changed things so much, neither Sony or MS can ignore that, can they?. Did either company shift their design brief soon enough to capitalise and stay relevant, while still making a product that's cutting edge? Has that cutting edge been redefined by other formats / companies / delivery systems, meaning the S & MS are already backing a losing horse?

    Is a pure games machine a better option than trying to be all things to all men? And if not, then both S & MS better have some sensational media, internet, streaming, Cloud, Onlive, Gaikai, or 'something NEW!' stuff in the pipeline.

    I'm just hopeful that both companies manage to deliver something that's relevant...
    I've not really been keeping abreast of all the rumors / speculation so I'm pretty much in the dark re: what's coming next (I appreciate, no one really knows) but has there even been any discussion / speculations re: the above?

    Steam/Origin - Ron_Justice
    PSN - hyper_808

  • Blerk Moderator 16 Jan 2013 13:40:47 48,225 posts
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    I think pure games machines are gone forever, to be frank. The next gen are going to be even more 'media hub' than ever before.

    If they're going down that route then that's fine. But I wish at least one of them would produce something that looks smart and clean and fits in well with your other under-the-telly kit. Make it look like a set-top box or a DVD player, for God's sake. We don't need something that looks like Flash Gordon shat it out.
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