Wii U Page 951

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  • Pinky_Floyd 5 Oct 2013 13:30:00 7,653 posts
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    Yeah, no doubt but it is what it is. Still managing to produce glorious looking games mind you that are arguably good looking enough. If you want to play the latest photo realistic racer or shooter in the future you will want a next gen console or pc. For the magical unicorns and glorious pixie dust, the Wii U should suffice.
  • Raiko101 5 Oct 2013 14:13:58 6,178 posts
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    @BonzoBanana I think a lot of people forget how expensive the controller is. It's the sole reason the Wii U costs as much as it does. They're still not turning a profit from it, hence why they've not announced a price drop. Rather they're announcing bundles instead.

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  • BonzoBanana 5 Oct 2013 14:43:52 88 posts
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    The gamepad has been seriously cost reduced. The gamepad circuit board has no expensive circuity, the battery is low capacity, the triggers aren't even analogue and the screen is a very cheap probably in the region of $3 of less for such a small resistive screen. You can get whole chinese 7" tablets with capacitance screens now for sub 30 at retail. The price of hard drives is substantially higher, probably the whole cost of the gamepad and then some. The main wii u unit is incredibly cheap using a 45nm and 40nm fabrication process, the 45nm part is lower cost I believe than the ps3 and 360 which are on 40nm. The memory chips are lower bandwidth and much cheaper than those in the ps3 and 360 but then there are 2GB of them in the wii u, flash memory is low speed, optical drive is fairly cheap. Also Nintendo have licensed nothing it seems for the wii u, no dvd video, bluray playback, dolby, DTS, prologic etc. No mediaplayer compatibility with license codecs. It seems to be a license free zone.

    We don't know how much wii u costs to make but Sony are claiming they are hardware profitable with only one game or something like that and the console has massively more expensive hardware built in. Nintendo gave figures about the wii being slightly profitable at launch but then when their financial figures were analysed they were making huge profits on the wii hardware, not surprising considering it was basically a gamecube with bolt ons. Nintendo's claims make no sense at all and until they provide some form of proof to back them up they are worthless claims. It's not like Nintendo are going to admit making huge profits on the hardware that they sell, which they regularly do. The idea that the wii u at 300 and the PS4 at 350 are making a similar financial loss is pure fantasy. Let's not forget either that a retail game only feeds back about 10-15 to the manufacture if sold at full price.

    You can buy a full entry level laptop with a higher performance cpu and gpu, more memory, windows 8 licensing, hard drive, optical drive, huge capacity li-ion battery and large screen for 300 and they are only made in the tens of thousands with lesser economies of scale.

    It's just not realistic at all to believe the wii u is an expensive console to make when it performs to such a low level and is based on such low performance components. It also consumes very little power despite being based on a power hungry low cost fabrication process compared to ps4 and xbox one.
  • Deleted user 5 October 2013 15:34:51
    For 300 quid you could get a much better performing CPU, but not GPU. For that price you're getting an HD 3000.

    But other than that I agree it seems dubious they aren't or weren't turning a profit on the Wu hardware.
  • electrolite 5 Oct 2013 20:34:41 470 posts
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    I might buy one tomorrow, especially if I don't get Glastonbury tickets. How long am I looking at for the update chaps? Speed checker has me at 4.94Mb FWIW.
  • BonzoBanana 5 Oct 2013 22:52:23 88 posts
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    @rumblesushi

    a quick look on youtube shows the HD3000 is fairly capable. Not forgetting that PC's have to go through directx so some performance is lost compared to a console that can program the gpu directly. However obviously the cpu performance is going to be a lot more powerful on all but the lowest laptop and that will help with games. I accept that I may have overstated the case against the wii u gpu but I'm geniunely surprised to see how capable Intel's HD3000 is. Considering the wii u is only rendering such games at 720p 30fps the HD3000 looks like easily matching it.

  • Deleted user 5 October 2013 23:04:42
    It's worth pointing out that that video is running a dramatically overclocked GPU. I have a laptop with an HD3000, and though it's more capable than people give it credit for, it struggles a lot with stuff. Even HL2 isn't perfectly smooth at 720p. It's also a hugely processor reliant GPU - most budget laptops would come with a lower class i3, which couldn't realistically handle those games even at the lowest levels.
  • Deleted user 5 October 2013 23:27:40
    @meme

    Yeah I agree. And the other point being that those(HD3000) graphics are massively inferior to launch PS3 games like GT HD Concept. The Wii U is also quite a bit more powerful than a PS3 just by GPU cores and available RAM, not even mentioning the custom fixed path GPU stuff specifically added to the GPU for game graphics fx Nintendo will be using. They've probably added custom GPU features for flames, glass rendering, clouds, water, ice (like the graphically expensive transparent/reflective pipes in Mario 3D World) to visually punch above their weight.
  • Pinky_Floyd 5 Oct 2013 23:53:06 7,653 posts
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    Dont forget the pixies.
  • Deleted user 5 October 2013 23:56:46
    @BonzoBanana My test laptop is an i5 Ivy Bridge with an HD3000, and I can tell you there is no way it's as good as the Wu GPU. In fact it's not even as good as the 360/PS3 GPU, and the Wu GPU is supposedly 50% more powerful. As someone said above, that guy has an absurd overclock on that GPU, around 3 times the stock speed.

    I've tried current gen games on my laptop, and it can only manage around 15fps on current gen games, with low settings.

    From what I can gather, the Wu GPU is at least twice as fast.
  • Pinky_Floyd 5 Oct 2013 23:59:37 7,653 posts
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    Some folks resolve has been fading what with Wind Waker released and 3D Mario finally looking awesome. So thats a few consoles sold and Nintendo will take anything they can get at the moment. Far from enough to turn things around but what a change to see positive word of mouth spreading from places like GAF. Although GAF is still a shithole and not even slightly representative of gamers at large. Same as this place really.
  • JiveHound 6 Oct 2013 00:35:30 2,395 posts
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    That 3ds turnaround isn't looking quite so fantastical now. Wind Waker seems to have put the WiiU on the radars of people I know for the first time.

    I for one am stunned by how good looking the game is. A few more solid gold hits and WiiU might become successful. Might. Here's hoping.

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  • BonzoBanana 6 Oct 2013 09:16:07 88 posts
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    @rumblesushi

    Fair point about the Hd3000 I linked to, I didn't see the overclocking info.

    This would be a better comparison as the intel apu,s are a bit weak;

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-15-6-inch-Notebook-Integrated-Professional/dp/B00B8TOW74/ref=sr_1_29?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1381044339&sr=1-29

    A laptop based around an AMD APU and is only about 200 after cashback. Seems a very good deal. This APU is easily found at 300 or below and while the CPU doesn't perform as well as Intel its still miles faster than the primitive 3 core chip of the wii u.

    How the gpu itself compares is difficult to judge but those APU,s perform well at lower resolutions running most modern games except the very demanding ones and it features the direct x11 feature set. It also can scale to the laptop screen, so can render at a lower resolution like 800x600 and scale to the screen (which is a trick many consoles do). Looking here you would probably need an A6 to match the latte in exact gpu performance but clearly the wii u is based around some fairly low end components with very low bandwidth 12.8GB/s memory for example.

    My point though stands, as well as all the other hardware, the licensing, you can easily obtain a laptop that has more memory, much higher cpu performance, better memory bandwidth, better gpu feature set, a better more expensive fabrication process (32nm as oppose to 40/45nm) but with the one issue that the gpu processing units and gflops performance may not compare to the wii u.



    http://www.amd.com/UK/products/notebook/pages/consumer-notebooks.aspx#7

    Edited by BonzoBanana at 10:37:07 06-10-2013
  • zoolophage 6 Oct 2013 09:33:54 1,647 posts
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    Just connected an old 320gb hard disc up to the Wii U via a usb dock that I picked up in Maplin. Transferring over Wonderful 101 right now. Today it looks like I'll be giving Wind Waker a spin on the Gamecube and then I'll decide whether to get the digital copy (got 5 of in premium discount), so the price is not too bad. I needed more space as well due to Wii Fit U coming out soon via download (for which I'll pick up the Fit Meter and thus get it for 'free').

    3DS: 2019-9957-3472

  • Pinky_Floyd 6 Oct 2013 11:54:02 7,653 posts
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    @zoolophage I popped WW into the cube a couple of months ago. I think it still looks good with the main pain points being the aspect ratio and the fact it was running on a 50 inch hdtv.

    WWHD is a huge upgrade and the best of its kind I have seen. 6 months for all this seems pretty incredible to me and must surely show how little effort goes into most HD upgrades.

    But the proof is in the playing. When you see the game running and you hear the upgraded audio you will definitely be glad you bought it.

    For all of the naysayers about the bloom and visual changes, I have yet to see a single person who has bought the game complain about these things. On the contrary, people are very much in love with the graphics.
  • Armoured_Bear 6 Oct 2013 11:57:11 10,506 posts
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    I'm queuing to play Mario Kart 8 :-)

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  • Syrette 6 Oct 2013 12:00:16 43,232 posts
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    Sorry, I don't think an HD remake of a Gamecube game (that most Wii U owners have already completed) can be classed as a game that will reverse the fortunes of the console.

    Frankly, I don't see much on the horizon that will make the Wii U significantly more successful than it already is. Aside from Bayonetta 2, I'm really not seeing much outside of the Nintendo staples that Nintendo fans will get anyway.

  • Armoured_Bear 6 Oct 2013 12:10:59 10,506 posts
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    Now super mario 3d world!

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  • Fake_Blood 6 Oct 2013 12:21:14 4,147 posts
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    I don't think anyone is claiming that zelda is going to save the wiiu single handedly.
    But playing wwHD and looking at 3D World I do get the feeling that nintendo is trying hard with their first party titles. They screwed up third party because of their hardware. But right now I do feel like the wiiu has a certain charm about it.
    I still don't recommend it to friends and family though.
  • Pinky_Floyd 6 Oct 2013 12:28:59 7,653 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear where? Report back asap.
  • Deleted user 6 October 2013 12:32:35
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    @rumblesushi

    Fair point about the Hd3000 I linked to, I didn't see the overclocking info.

    This would be a better comparison as the intel apu,s are a bit weak;

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-15-6-inch-Notebook-Integrated-Professional/dp/B00B8TOW74/ref=sr_1_29?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1381044339&sr=1-29

    A laptop based around an AMD APU and is only about 200 after cashback. Seems a very good deal. This APU is easily found at 300 or below and while the CPU doesn't perform as well as Intel its still miles faster than the primitive 3 core chip of the wii u.

    How the gpu itself compares is difficult to judge but those APU,s perform well at lower resolutions running most modern games except the very demanding ones and it features the direct x11 feature set. It also can scale to the laptop screen, so can render at a lower resolution like 800x600 and scale to the screen (which is a trick many consoles do). Looking here you would probably need an A6 to match the latte in exact gpu performance but clearly the wii u is based around some fairly low end components with very low bandwidth 12.8GB/s memory for example.

    My point though stands, as well as all the other hardware, the licensing, you can easily obtain a laptop that has more memory, much higher cpu performance, better memory bandwidth, better gpu feature set, a better more expensive fabrication process (32nm as oppose to 40/45nm) but with the one issue that the gpu processing units and gflops performance may not compare to the wii u.



    http://www.amd.com/UK/products/notebook/pages/consumer-notebooks.aspx#7
    Lol at "it can scale to the laptop screen". Pretty much every console ever released rendered at a lower res than our screens and let the screens scale. Or indeed the current gen machines do both, either use their built in scaling, or if you choose the native game res, your screen can do the scaling.

    Not sure you'd want to be using an antiquated 4:3 resolution like 800 x 600 on a widescreen display. If you wanted to drop from 720p for performance, even 852 x 480 would be better than playing in 4:3 with borders or stretching.

    As I said I agree with your core point about it being hard to believe they didn't turn a profit on the hardware selling at 300, I was just pointing out the fact the you can't get a machine with a better GPU for the price at all, especially the price you can get one for now, I paid 150 for mine.
  • Deleted user 6 October 2013 12:33:05
    @Armoured_Bear what did you think of the new Mario Kart?
  • Pinky_Floyd 6 Oct 2013 12:36:19 7,653 posts
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    150 for mine new too. Would love to see one of those laptops running something like Mario 3d world, frame rate would be a giggle.

    Moot point anyway and the tech spec thing has been done to death now.
  • BonzoBanana 6 Oct 2013 12:41:32 88 posts
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    Mario kart always shifts consoles but its arriving too late to save this christmas.

    In america the zelda bundle has done about 40% extra from the week before, achieving sales figures of about half that of the xbox 360. Clearly we are moving towards the christmas season though where such figures increase anyway. So its difficult to know. Wii u is just dead in Europe. Next weeks figures should reveal the European situation for the price cut.

    Nintendo need adverts on mainstream tv clearly showing the bundle and the graphics of Zelda though. It's a truly beautiful game.

    A lot of people don't like the fact windwaker is a download code though rather than a physical game and I don't believe it comes with nintendo land.

    My local Game store in Yeovil has a wii u setup at the end of the central aisle with no other playable consoles. I'm wondering how long that will last when the xbox one and ps4 arrive. However I hope they get Zelda windwaker on that ASAP. When ever I go past it, its always showing mario which doesn't look much better than the wii version.

    The wii continues to outsell the wii u in Europe despite the huge saturation of wii consoles already. Hopefully next week at least that won't be true anymore.

    If Nintendo don't have a good christmas with the wii u I think desperate measures will be needed next year. I honestly think they should have done more with the windwaker console bundle.
  • BonzoBanana 6 Oct 2013 12:52:09 88 posts
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    @rumblesushi

    Obviously most PC's you actually render at the output resolution but the AMD chipset (probably not 800x600) but has the ability to render at a lower res and scale nicely to the laptop screen. I'm not sure what res that would be but something sub 720p I guess without going all the way down to something like a 720x480 resolution. No one is under any illusion of how consoles function. Black ops 2 is only 880x720 on ps3, 360 and wii u. I think Sonic Transformed is down to 640 lines on wii u although higher on 360 and PS3.

    As for wii u price of 150 that's not an official price, just the fact a lot of retailers had too much stock and had to clear it out because it wasn't selling. My point was about the official launch price though which has been maintaned up until this first official price drop just hitting retail now.
  • Armoured_Bear 6 Oct 2013 12:57:29 10,506 posts
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    @BonzoBanana
    Wubd waker was advertised on itv during the celtuc vs barca match

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  • Fake_Blood 6 Oct 2013 12:58:57 4,147 posts
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    Are you typing on an iphone?
  • Armoured_Bear 6 Oct 2013 13:14:50 10,506 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Are you typing on an iphone?
    Worse! An htc :-)

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  • CharlieStCloud 6 Oct 2013 13:20:01 5,202 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Are you typing on an iPhone?
    Worse! An HTC :-)
    The HTC one is a very nice phone!

    ... saw The Wind Waker in motion the other day.

    Looks nice and smooth, but I'm sorry, I really do not like the day-glo cartoon vibe of it.

    Annoyingly, the Dolphin version of The Wind Waker looks better!

    : (
  • Deleted user 6 October 2013 14:18:34
    @BonzoBanana tbh I wasn't really sure what your point was with the scaling, as all laptops can have the display set at a lower than native resolution and scale full screen. Did you mean that AMD has better built in scaling than the Intel GPUs?

    And because I agree with you about launch prices/profits, it might seem like I'm arguing semantics about GPUs, but no. Because quite simply, you can't get a 300 quid PC that plays games as well as the Wu. At least not one with a screen. A 300 quid laptop is awful for gaming.
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