Compact backup cam recommendations Page 9

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  • Deleted user 4 February 2012 12:13:28
    Don't you want to wait for the price first? Hehe!
  • Nth 4 Feb 2012 21:48:03 3,124 posts
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    The more I see, the more hideous I think it is.

    http://t.co/CjyKDCgo
  • monkman76 4 Feb 2012 22:15:32 5,117 posts
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    Ooer. So does it have a mirror and OVF? For some reason I assumed it was another mirrorless camera.
  • mal 4 Feb 2012 23:04:24 22,797 posts
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    No, it is mirrorless - just with the standard K-mount flange distance and mount, so no OVF either.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Deleted user 5 February 2012 09:26:59
    I just saw a price rumour: 1200 USD for body only. Are they having a laugh?
  • Nth 5 Feb 2012 11:08:17 3,124 posts
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    It's basically a weather sealed and restyled Panasonic G3 at 3 times the price.
  • mal 11 Feb 2012 15:39:03 22,797 posts
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    So, just come across the news that Ricoh-Pentax have restructured, and Pentax's camera division is now to swallow Ricoh's one. While I respect the legacy of Pentax's glass, I always felt Ricoh made the more interesting cameras. I suspect this will be the end of the GXR system which struck me as a bonkers idea when they announced it, but they've backed it up with some well thought through sensor/lens units.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • skuzzbag 11 Feb 2012 17:05:20 5,682 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    To be fair all of these new compact system cameras have at least one fairly serious flaw (each different from the next), as we've been discussing at length in this thread! If that's all that's holding you back, maybe don't worry about it too much.
    I bought it (Fujifilm x10). I produces amazing images in the right circumstances. Unfortunately the one keeper I had today was ruined by a big orb right in the middle! Apart from that the shot could have been from my 40D & Sigma 30mm it was such high quality.

    I'm going to get a refund and put the money in savings and wait for the (inevitable) X11. Fuji just released a fix and it fixes nothing! There is something a bit fishy about all this from Fuji. After seeing how easy it is to get orbs they must have known of the problem before the camera was released.

    Edited by skuzzbag at 17:07:08 11-02-2012
  • monkman76 11 Feb 2012 18:00:05 5,117 posts
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    To be fair that does sound like a bigger flaw than the ones I was referring to :)
  • skuzzbag 11 Feb 2012 23:09:02 5,682 posts
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    Post deleted
  • skuzzbag 12 Feb 2012 12:18:05 5,682 posts
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    Here is the image.
  • mrharvest 12 Feb 2012 13:11:39 5,201 posts
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    mal wrote:
    So, just come across the news that Ricoh-Pentax have restructured, and Pentax's camera division is now to swallow Ricoh's one. While I respect the legacy of Pentax's glass, I always felt Ricoh made the more interesting cameras. I suspect this will be the end of the GXR system which struck me as a bonkers idea when they announced it, but they've backed it up with some well thought through sensor/lens units.
    The GXR is an awesome system by all accounts and selling more than expected. If Ricoh-Pentax decide to axe that line or even cut back they'll have a lot of disappointed ex-fanatics.
  • mal 13 Feb 2012 02:54:03 22,797 posts
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    To counterbalance my pro-Ricoh post above, I should mention that I just read a review of the Pentax Q very-compact system camera, and I was very impressed that you could get a camera the size of the Olympus XZ-1 but with an alloy shell, decent manual focus for almost exactly the same price with the standard prime. So the XZ-1 (and the more expensive Fuji X-10) have slightly larger sensors (2/3in vs. 1/2.3in), but the Q's sensor is the same size as the ones in the S95 and the P7100 IIRC.

    Only question is in terms of IQ. Sample shots I've seen have pretty rubbish detail though whether that's down to aggressive JPEG compression or NR (and what a decently ACRed RAW shot would give you) I can't tell from my phone, and it's been a while since I checked out how much detail you could expect from the S95 or P7100. But I'll be checking it out when I get on a computer again.

    Edited by mal at 20:29:29 13-02-2012

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Deleted user 13 February 2012 05:34:18
    Pentax MirLOLess:

    http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC7005.jpg
    http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_7083.jpg

    I'd argue my kid's camera is almost better looking...



    Edited by valli at 05:37:44 13-02-2012
  • mal 13 Feb 2012 17:31:32 22,797 posts
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    I've taken some proper looks at Q shots now. Shame that you can't get RAW shots out of it that haven't already had NR applied, though to be fair I rather like the NR it applies, retaining sharpness while largely eliminating colour noise. And the results are comparable with my (admittedly old hat) D70 in terms of detail - if you were to scale them down to the same resolution. No bokeh to speak of, except for at extreme macro.

    At its launch price of 600 quid it was a bit of a joke, but now it's almost half that price it's a lot more tempting. Mind you, the XZ-1's also dropped in price since I last checked, and that camera can produce at least some bokeh on an average outdoor portrait shot it seems. But then you can't buy a crazy-wide fisheye lens for the XZ-1, and it doesn't have an alloy body.

    Ah, decisions decisions.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Deleted user 13 February 2012 19:45:07
    What camera is that mal? You wrote "Panasonic Q", don't you mean Pentax Q?

    If bokeh is important, I'd argue f/1.8 projected on a small sensor is the equivalent of f/4 or even smaller on a APS-C sensor. Not sure of the mathematics behind this (all that "circle of confusion" talk is... confusing) but I know for a fact that f/4 on medium format looks like f/2 on 35mm.
  • mal 13 Feb 2012 20:41:32 22,797 posts
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    Oops, fixed now, ta. Yeah, it's Pentax's compact oddity, the Q system.

    Yeah, DoF works like that as I understand it. The amount of out-of-focusness you get (and potential for bokeh) depends on the ratio of the distance between the in focus object and the background, times by the actual aperture in millimeters. The aperture in lenses is normally specified in fractions of their focal length - e.g. f/2.4, so the actual aperture is bigger on a longer focal-length lens, which is why longer lenses have tighter DoFs. There's nothing intrinsic about smaller sensors having bigger DoFs except that small sensors means tiny focal length lenses - the 47mm equivalent lens that comes with the Pentax Q actually only has a focal length of 8.5mm, so f/1.9 on that lens is tiny (I suspect 8.5/1.9mm=4.5mm, but I haven't checked that).

    The Pentax Q does have this odd defocus control system where it takes multiple shots, only one of which in focus, then merges them together to put the background more out of focus. If it works that should help with subject isolation, but it does feel rather like cheating to me ;)

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • TheRealBadabing 13 Feb 2012 21:07:43 1,349 posts
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    So has anyone had a go on the Nikon 1 series? Been out a while and after the initial poo-pooing about sensor size, lots of good noises are being made.

    Seems to have a weird mode select but is very "results driven" and is meant to take some cracking, sharp images.

    Might pop down to Jessops and have a play but would be good to hear from any owners.
  • monkman76 13 Feb 2012 22:56:42 5,117 posts
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    Yeah I've read lots of good things about the Nikon 1 on a couple of forums. It's also selling very well, especially here in the UK. Of course a lot of that is Nikon throwing lots of money at marketing.
  • prawnking1980 13 Feb 2012 23:27:26 5,033 posts
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    Have also heard good things especially relating to speed. Price is the only the downside really.
  • Nth 14 Feb 2012 07:44:41 3,124 posts
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    It's better than expected, but it has hardly any physical controls and the price is daft. Also no matter what lenses they bring out you'll never have the DoF control you get with a bigger sensor. Even m4/3 is good on this aspect, with a decent prime like the 20 or 45 you can really blur the backgrounds nicely. The Nikon has a huge 2.7x crop factor too so wide angle must be fairly limited, the 10 prime is only 27mm in real terms.
  • Nth 14 Feb 2012 09:05:36 3,124 posts
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    X10 still broken after update, confirmed
  • mal 14 Feb 2012 14:30:23 22,797 posts
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    He's starting to think it might be a hardware issue? No shit, sherlock. Even Fuji's firmware guys aren't shit enough that they couldn't fix a software bug in a matter of weeks. The X10 has a CMOS sensor doesn't it? I'd guess it's some sort of current leakage affecting the readout circuitry. Only weird thing is how they're perfectly circular - meaning the current must be leaking though some uniform substrate probably, rather from cell to cell.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • skuzzbag 14 Feb 2012 21:22:47 5,682 posts
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    dpreview's Fuji forum has pretty much gone into meltdown since the update.

    Since my orb experience I'm now firmly on the "they must have known about it as how could it have escaped testing when it's so easy to reproduce" side. The image I posted above was after the latest update.

    If I sell my 40D + Sigma 30mm + Tamron 17-50 I'll have more than enough cash for a Sony nex-7. I really need a lighter camera to carry around but don't want to lose the advantages of a crop sensor. I'm also not kidding myself that I'll be anything but a snap shot photographer.

    Good idea?
  • TheRealBadabing 15 Feb 2012 00:02:26 1,349 posts
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    The NEX 7 looks lovely but if, as you say, you are a snapshot guy then that sodding Nikon 1 looks bloody great.

    Hate to say it but for photographing fast stuff (kids etc) it is amazing.

    Very impressed with my play today at Jessops. All the pixels in the world don't mean a thing if they are out of focus, and the J1 (and presumably the V1) just seem to snap to focus ridiculously fast.

    Disclaimer: I do not own one but I was really impressed with my limited play today!

    Edited by TheRealBadabing at 01:45:11 15-02-2012
  • monkman76 15 Feb 2012 09:10:10 5,117 posts
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    @skuzzbag - if you're more of a snapshot photographer than a regular settings-tweaker, and you fancy a NEX, why not get the NEX-5N? The sensor is superb (same as Nikon D7000). The NEX-7 is great but I'm not sure it's worth twice as much as a 5N, unless you REALLY need 24MP, and you need to be printing pretty huge to need 24MP :)
  • Deleted user 15 February 2012 09:25:17
    I need to try out the Nikon 1's AF speed, it's supposed to be insane. How exactly do they do it? Not that I need it personally, "fast stuff" is covered by the D7000 with AF-S lenses but this little Nikon 1 is supposedly even faster than that.

    As for NEX-5N, it has the advantage of corrected sensor for manual vintage lenses, should you go that way. It came to me as a surprise that the NEX-7 cannot do that on the sensor. It's also a bit smaller (and cheaper).
  • skuzzbag 15 Feb 2012 11:17:45 5,682 posts
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    I read a nex-7 review last night that said they wished they'd put the nex-5n sensor in it as it seems like a sweet spot for the size (I don't need 24mp to be honest!). The high ISO noise comparison was very convincing. That would leave me a fair chunk of cash to put towards a nice lens for it. Also you make a good argument on the vintage lenses, I've saw some excellent photos on flickr last night.

    I think the thing about the nex-7 was it's size would be better for me and the controls would be nice. Although, I do tend to just stay in aperture priority.
  • Deleted user 15 February 2012 11:49:48
    Let me know if you go ahead, there are a few caveats regarding certain lenses (wide angle) on the NEX-7.

    The interface of the NEX family, from reading the feedback, was one thing that kept me away from the system for a long time. Turned out it wasn't that big of a deal with the 5N, probably because it got an additional physical button you can configure and the fact that I run it in fully manual or A prio like yourself.

    Fully manual mode with vintage lenses is ace, you have the aperture ring on the lens and the circular wheel for choosing shutter times, while you see the exposure historygram in real time on the screen.
  • skuzzbag 25 Feb 2012 10:40:36 5,682 posts
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    I got a 5N a few days ago and first impressions based upon some around the house shots are that it's a keeper for me. The only thing I noticed wasn't as good as other cameras I've used recently (40D, XZ-1, X10) is that the auto-focus indoors in dim light isn't too great. The manual focus is very good though so this makes up for that.

    Image quality even with the kit 18-55 is pretty stunning. However it is an expensive camera with a crop sensor so you'd expect that. Not what I'd call a compact with the kit lens but light and easily stored.

    I was worried that it'd be slow to use but so far it's quick to access settings once you configure the buttons, focus time and shot time are fast enough to not get in the way.

    I'll have to get an adapter for some vintage lenses now I think.
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