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  • captbirdseye 5 Sep 2013 10:54:28 5,032 posts
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    I remember the media were wanking over Cleverley and how he would save England.
  • mcmonkeyplc 5 Sep 2013 10:55:12 39,460 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    Where as you are quite clearly a united fan.
    Is it a foundation of supporting united that you have to be constantly pissed off and po-faced about your club despite winning the premiership every season and probably winning it this one too?
    Once you experience perfection see how you feel about losing it.

    Probablywinningitthisonetoolol

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 10:57:41 14,225 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    There are quite a few english players playing abroad. Admittedly, a lot of them are journeymen after a final pay day, but there is a reasonable amount of talent playing all over europe.
    I meant who went abroad to develop and gain experience at a young age, not to cash in at the twilight of their careers.

    There was a recent player from a top club who rejected s loan bid to Ajax for QPR.
    I'm aware one wants to stay close to their family, but from a career development point, playing for Ajax week in week out is far far more beneficial for any young player.
  • Latin 5 Sep 2013 11:00:28 3,710 posts
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    @mcmonkeyplc I am a fan but not filled with any confidence at the moment!

    Moyes needs to go for it against City... If he settles for a draw against them, it will be 2 points against 3 top teams... 1 win and two loses gets more points. That's what he doesn't understand. Too cautious, he's not a winner, nothing in his career suggests he is.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:01:44 14,225 posts
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    And even if you take journeymen into consideration, "a reasonable amount" pales in comparison to the German, French, Spanish and other young players littered all over European academies.

    Its actually a very unreasonable amount, when one considers the idea of developing young players.

    And its not like young English players don't get offers, because they do. But its pretty much accepted that English players, especially the young ones, don't want to go abroad.
    Which questions just how much they really want it.
  • mcmonkeyplc 5 Sep 2013 11:03:00 39,460 posts
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    Latin wrote:
    @mcmonkeyplc I am a fan but not filled with any confidence at the moment!

    Moyes needs to go for it against City... If he settles for a draw against them, it will be 2 points against 3 top teams... 1 win and two loses gets more points. That's what he doesn't understand. Too cautious, he's not a winner, nothing in his career suggests he is.
    Give him time. He's only had 3 games. The Chelsea game was bore draw due to Chelsea's tactics more than ours.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Mr_Sleep 5 Sep 2013 11:05:28 17,097 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Once you experience perfection see how you feel about losing it.

    Probablywinningitthisonetoolol
    I don't see why you wont win it, it's practically the same team and you have the best striker in the country. Every team is struggling to play amazingly yet, I'm sure it will click.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Mr_Sleep 5 Sep 2013 11:08:44 17,097 posts
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    It's amazing when McMonkey seems like the more moderate United fan :-P

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • nickthegun 5 Sep 2013 11:11:02 60,144 posts
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    You have to mitigate that with the fact that we have good academies all the way through the leagues. We have an infrastructure like nowhere in the world so we naturally take in far more players than other countries.

    Its not that our players should be going to the likes of holland, its that they are far more likely to be picked up by an academy over here, so why should they go abroad?

    Take the kid at QRR, as an example. The championship is probably a more competative league than the dutch top tier and he is far more likely to get noticed by a bigger club playing in london than he is in amsterdam. Its not purely 'he doesnt want it enough'. There are a million reasons why he elected to stay in england.

    Edited by nickthegun at 11:13:08 05-09-2013

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  • Latin 5 Sep 2013 11:20:02 3,710 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Latin wrote:
    @mcmonkeyplc I am a fan but not filled with any confidence at the moment!

    Moyes needs to go for it against City... If he settles for a draw against them, it will be 2 points against 3 top teams... 1 win and two loses gets more points. That's what he doesn't understand. Too cautious, he's not a winner, nothing in his career suggests he is.
    Give him time. He's only had 3 games. The Chelsea game was bore draw due to Chelsea's tactics more than ours.
    I'm all for patience, but this transfer window, his press conferences, his post match interviews and most importantly his team selections and substitutions have not filled me with any hope. He looks like Hodgson at Liverpool. Good managers but wrong clubs.
  • Mr_Sleep 5 Sep 2013 11:20:20 17,097 posts
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    I'm sure the English game would be helped a great deal by not having such a hateful media attacking the coaches at every opportunity. Oh and a manager who actually tries to build for the future as opposed to just saying it.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • mcmonkeyplc 5 Sep 2013 11:25:37 39,460 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Once you experience perfection see how you feel about losing it.

    Probablywinningitthisonetoolol
    I don't see why you wont win it, it's practically the same team and you have the best striker in the country. Every team is struggling to play amazingly yet, I'm sure it will click.
    Yes but we have THAT midfield, which has finally been improved but I fear not enough considering everyone else has improved as well.

    We have the potential to win but maybe not the right team at the moment. Then again if Moyes has bought Fellani so that Kagawa has protection behind we could be jizztastic.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:26:04 14,225 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    You have to mitigate that with the fact that we have good academies all the way through the leagues. We have an infrastructure like nowhere in the world so we naturally take in far more players than other countries.

    Its not that our players should be going to the likes of holland, its that they are far more likely to be picked up by an academy over here, so why should they go abroad?

    Take the kid at QRR, as an example. The championship is probably a more competative league than the dutch top tier and he is far more likely to get noticed by a bigger club playing in london than he is in amsterdam. Its not purely 'he doesnt want it enough'. There are a million reasons why he elected to stay in england.
    Completely disagree on virtually all counts.
    For one, we don't have good academies all the way through, we have a very poor academy system beyond s handful of clubs (West Ham, Arsenal, Watford, Villa, Everton, Crewe, Southampton, Spurs are just some of the few.....and I'm dubious of even putting arsenal in there, beyond what arsenal fans think).
    Its the entire reason why the FA and the PL forced the (somewhat rubbish) EPPP system upon UK Football. Grassroots football in this country is not good.

    I really don't get where on what basis you feel we have infrastructure "like nowhere else in the world".

    And do you honestly believe he'll get noticed by a "bigger club" (do you mean "British club"?) at QPR at one of the most renowned and arguably the best academies in the world? The level of education he'll get at Ajax utterly DESTORYS anything he'll learn at QPR if he wants to become a genuine top class player, rather than just get signed by Sunderland. And this was a loan for the first team, so he would even get the chance to play in Europe.
    In fact just this week stats showed he Dutch league made more money tan any other league in selling players to top and decent clubs.

    There can be a million reasons for why he didn't want to go but as someone who worked in the academy level, the number one reason was home sickness.
  • mcmonkeyplc 5 Sep 2013 11:27:01 39,460 posts
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    Latin wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Latin wrote:
    @mcmonkeyplc I am a fan but not filled with any confidence at the moment!

    Moyes needs to go for it against City... If he settles for a draw against them, it will be 2 points against 3 top teams... 1 win and two loses gets more points. That's what he doesn't understand. Too cautious, he's not a winner, nothing in his career suggests he is.
    Give him time. He's only had 3 games. The Chelsea game was bore draw due to Chelsea's tactics more than ours.
    I'm all for patience, but this transfer window, his press conferences, his post match interviews and most importantly his team selections and substitutions have not filled me with any hope. He looks like Hodgson at Liverpool. Good managers but wrong clubs.
    Come on. Apart from the retarded transfer window (mainly not his fault) he's made pretty much the same choices that Fergie would've.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • nickthegun 5 Sep 2013 11:30:04 60,144 posts
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    I cant really be bothered getting in to a point-for-point, mega-quote nit-pick-a-thon with you but, suffice to say, I think you are talking out of your arse.

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  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:30:42 14,225 posts
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    graysonavich wrote:
    Because a 10 minute appearance off the bench at FC Twente away would change the course of English international football for countless generations.
    As supposed to a 10 minute appearance off the bench of QPR will do the trick.
    Unless you actually have some insight to add, I'm not interested in participating in one of your borish passive-aggressive argumentative traps please.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:33:15 14,225 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I cant really be bothered getting in to a point-for-point, mega-quote nit-pick-a-thon with you but, suffice to say, I think you are talking out of your arse.
    Did you learn that from our unrivalled infrastructure?

    I'm making my comments based on first hand and even recent comments from those at academies. What are you basing it on?
  • SolidSCB 5 Sep 2013 11:34:44 6,771 posts
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    I don't know about other United fans, but I'm inclined to give a bit of time to the new bloke in charge. Especially considering he was hand-picked by a man who spent the previous 26 years bringing us to where we are now. I'm sure he sort of knew what we were looking for in terms of a replacement.
  • nickthegun 5 Sep 2013 11:34:49 60,144 posts
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    I refer you to my previous comments.

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  • Latin 5 Sep 2013 11:39:00 3,710 posts
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    @mcmonkeyplc Fergie would have sold Rooney for one!

    I don't think he would have been so negative against Chelsea especially as Chelsea were so bad, he might have started with a similar set up but when it was clear they were offering nothing, I think he would have gone for it.

    The Liverpool game was just small time mentality from Moyes, RVP was totally isolated and leaving Kagawa out of the squad entirely was a joke.
  • mcmonkeyplc 5 Sep 2013 11:40:39 39,460 posts
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    SolidSCB wrote:
    I don't know about other United fans, but I'm inclined to give a bit of time to the new bloke in charge. Especially considering he was hand-picked by a man who spent the previous 26 years bringing us to where we are now. I'm sure he sort of knew what we were looking for in terms of a replacement.
    I agree. We've played shit for the past 3 seasons and won 2 leagues!

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:40:40 14,225 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I refer you to my previous comments.
    Answer = Nothing.

    I'm aware.
  • nickthegun 5 Sep 2013 11:42:14 60,144 posts
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    I actually have my FIFA A badge and coach at a well known championship club

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  • SuperCoolEskimo 5 Sep 2013 11:43:03 9,884 posts
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    Apparently Moyes turned down a move for Thiago because he hadn't seen enough of him to know if he was good enough.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:43:03 14,225 posts
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    graysonavich wrote:
    England were equally as shit when it was fashionable to go out to Spain or Italy for a couple of years.

    Youtz want to stay in England because, and whisper it quietly, the England set up from bottom to top is generally far better than anything they will find in a sunnier climate.
    When was it ever fashionable for young players to go out to Spain or Italy?
    And the England set up is better than what they would find in Spain, Netherlands and Germany? Ok then.

    2022 World Cup here we come.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:45:32 14,225 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I actually have my FIFA A badge and coach at a well known championship club
    I've mentioned what club I worked at (West Ham up until a season ago), so I'm sure you wouldn't mind mentioning what championship club you're at.
  • Mr_Sleep 5 Sep 2013 11:47:21 17,097 posts
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    Latin wrote:
    @mcmonkeyplc Fergie would have sold Rooney for one!
    What, like when he sulked, agitated for a move and then had a massive, unreasonable pay rise under Fergie.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Sep 2013 11:47:22 14,225 posts
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    And as far as I'm aware, FIFA don't make badges.
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