Champions League Page 474

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  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 09:50:24
    Also I don't believe you. If you bitch and whinge this much at doing as well as you are, I dread to think what you'd be like getting relegated.
  • THFourteen 20 Feb 2013 09:51:04 45,449 posts
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    Of course they aren't happy with what happened

    but again, you are looking at it with a glass half empty approach

    in your opinion if wenger were to leave, we would be destroyed like leeds

    in my opinion if wenger were to leave, 33% we might get better, 33% we might stay the same, or 33% we might be a bit worse.

    i'll take that risk.
  • roz123 20 Feb 2013 09:52:10 7,112 posts
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    Think about it TH14 you could end up with Rafa Benitez as manager
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 09:52:30 71,320 posts
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    I actually agree with TH14. Its not like Moyes and Everton, who are perennial top tenners and has taken them as far as they can go.

    Arsenal, despite the whining, have serious untapped resources and they really could kick on with a manager who buys the right players.

    Im normally one for sticking with a manager but I really dont think this is the same situation. Its not like Arsene has been carrying the club. Arsenal are a triffic, top, top team in their own right and could and should be challenging for things. As a football fan, I want to see them winning things, if only to break things up.

    Plus it would be funny if they did self destruct, so its win/win.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 09:53:43
    THFourteen wrote:
    in your opinion if wenger were to leave, we would be destroyed like leeds
    No, that's not my opinion. I think that's the absolute worst case scenario, but I do think the chances of you actually doing better that you currently are, are ludicrously slim.


    in my opinion if wenger were to leave, 33% we might get better, 33% we might stay the same, or 33% we might be a bit worse.

    This is what it all comes down to really. This is where I think you've lost all perspective, and I think it's because you've had Wenger so long, you don't know what it's like when you get a new manager. I'd say the odds are more like 5% you get better, 20% you stay the same, 75% you get worse.

    Edited by kalel at 09:53:59 20-02-2013
  • Blaketown 20 Feb 2013 09:54:18 5,658 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    in my opinion if wenger were to leave, 33% we might get better, 33% we might stay the same, or 33% we might be a bit worse.
    Your odds are way out of line. The chance you would improve are very slim. When you look at who Arsenal are realistically competing against, Wenger has consistently been the best in the league for a very long time.

    It can't be a coincidence that every Spurs & Liverpool fan I've talked to can't wait for Wenger to leave. Be careful what you wish for.

    Edited by Blaketown at 09:55:21 20-02-2013
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 09:55:50 71,320 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    This is what it all comes down to really. This is where I think you've lost all perspective, and I think it's because you've had Wenger so long, you don't know what it's like when you get a new manager. I'd say the odds are more like 5% you get better, 20% you stay the same, 75% you get worse.
    It can happen. Lets be honest, there werent many people who gave AVB a prayer.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 09:56:44
    nickthegun wrote:
    Arsenal, despite the whining, have serious untapped resources and they really could kick on with a manager who buys the right players.
    I think this is highly debatable. Their wage bill is very high, and to add to it with huge transfer fees (and even higher wages) I don't think is realistic, even with their resources.

    Yes, he's made bad buys, but every manager does. He has made some very good ones even in recent years as well.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 09:59:13
    nickthegun wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    This is what it all comes down to really. This is where I think you've lost all perspective, and I think it's because you've had Wenger so long, you don't know what it's like when you get a new manager. I'd say the odds are more like 5% you get better, 20% you stay the same, 75% you get worse.
    It can happen. Lets be honest, there werent many people who gave AVB a prayer.
    This is exactly my point though. To end up with AVB we first had to go through Ardilles, and Francis, and Gross, and Graham, and Hoddle, and Santini, and Jol, and Ramos, and Harry...and even then it was a stroke of luck that we got AVB in truth.

    This ^^^ is what TH wants to voluntarily sign up for, when he's already got the second best manager in the history of the PL managing his team. Madness.
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:06:07 71,320 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    Arsenal, despite the whining, have serious untapped resources and they really could kick on with a manager who buys the right players.
    I think this is highly debatable. Their wage bill is very high, and to add to it with huge transfer fees (and even higher wages) I don't think is realistic, even with their resources.

    Yes, he's made bad buys, but every manager does. He has made some very good ones even in recent years as well.
    It would take some restructuring and writing off of assets but its doable. You have got some proper shite there on outrageous money.

    The problem is they are a happy shopper Man City. They have got some proper guff there who wont move for less money and no team in their right mind would pay them half of what they are currently on.
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:08:40 71,320 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    This is what it all comes down to really. This is where I think you've lost all perspective, and I think it's because you've had Wenger so long, you don't know what it's like when you get a new manager. I'd say the odds are more like 5% you get better, 20% you stay the same, 75% you get worse.
    It can happen. Lets be honest, there werent many people who gave AVB a prayer.
    This is exactly my point though. To end up with AVB we first had to go through Ardilles, and Francis, and Gross, and Graham, and Hoddle, and Santini, and Jol, and Ramos, and Harry...and even then it was a stroke of luck that we got AVB in truth.

    This ^^^ is what TH wants to voluntarily sign up for, when he's already got the second best manager in the history of the PL managing his team. Madness.
    But who did you get rid of to go through the merry go round?

    And Wenger himself was a bit of a gamble. If you had taken a punt on, say, moyes when he was available, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Theres a lot of luck when choosing a manager. Wenger could have been a disaster.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 10:11:30
    Venables, and that was just a whole big fucking mess and really nothing to do with football. Certainly wasn't the fans' preference for him to go.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 10:13:07
    And again, Wenger wasn't really a gamble considering they were replacing Rioch, who also basically had to go. It's always a gamble yes, but you weigh that up against who you're replacing. That's again my entire point.
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:16:07 71,320 posts
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    It was a gamble but, again, his most successful side was built on the spine of the rioch assembled.

    I dunno, as I say as an observer, i dont think its a huge gamble as arsenal should be able to attract the best managers in the world.

    Certainly i dont think many other managers would have thrown the FA Cup tie to prepare for the CL game they then took a pounding in.
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:16:47 71,320 posts
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    And this is from someone whos team has been through every good young manager in the country and wanted to stick by John Gregory.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 10:18:12
    Why should Arsenal be able to attract the best managers in the word? They are at absolute best the fourth best team in England, with an unclimbable mountain to get them above the other three.

    That's not an attractive proposition to the top tier of managers imo.

    Edited by kalel at 10:18:47 20-02-2013
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:20:22 71,320 posts
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    There are seven million reasons a top manager will go there, aside from the fact that they are 'run the right way' and still one of the top draws in europe.

    Im not a manager but I would still see arsenal as a big job.

    Edited by nickthegun at 10:20:36 20-02-2013
  • evild_edd 20 Feb 2013 10:23:18 3,820 posts
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    Still talking about us, Kalel? I wonder whether you love Arsene or Arsenal more...? Either way, there's some guilty, repressed affection within you!
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 10:24:39
    Yes t's not like you played last night and we're discussing it in the relevant thread or anything.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 10:26:34
    nickthegun wrote:
    There are seven million reasons a top manager will go there, aside from the fact that they are 'run the right way' and still one of the top draws in europe.

    Im not a manager but I would still see arsenal as a big job.
    Absolutely, but the issue is (yet again) that we're talking about managers that are better than Wenger. That's a really small group of managers we're now talking about, and the question is whether that absolute top tier would go there (and even if they did, would they be better).
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:30:41 71,320 posts
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    I'd take a punt on 'yes' because, fuck it, why not?

    I take all of your points on board but I think its fairly inescapable that his reign is coming to a natural conclusion. Can another manager make them better? I dont know. Can Arsene make them better? No, I dont think he can.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 10:32:49
    Yeah, he will need to be replaced sooner rather than later. True enough. It's just the "Wenger our" attitude I'm objecting to. And not even objecting to as it's honestly music to my ears. I just can't help arguing against stuff I don't agree with.
  • nickthegun 20 Feb 2013 10:35:12 71,320 posts
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    Yeah 'wenger out' is not only a bit strong, but a bit ungrateful.

    But, you can almost understand it as he quite resolutely doesnt seem to be going anywhere, to the point that if he did get the boot he would do a george costanza.
  • THFourteen 20 Feb 2013 10:54:19 45,449 posts
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    kalel wrote:This ^^^ is what TH wants to voluntarily sign up for, when he's already got the second best manager in the history of the PL managing his team. Madness.
    again, you aren't a fortune teller, and you don't know for a fact what will happen when Wenger leaves.

    its all IYO.

    i am not arguing with what AW has achieved over the first 10 years of his reign.

    I now see us declining slowly every year, so why not try and halt that decline by changing things up, if we continue to decline we havent lost anything, and if we get better then we get better and we all win.
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 11:03:22
    THFourteen wrote:
    kalel wrote:This ^^^ is what TH wants to voluntarily sign up for, when he's already got the second best manager in the history of the PL managing his team. Madness.
    again, you aren't a fortune teller, and you don't know for a fact what will happen when Wenger leaves.

    its all IYO.
    I accept that, but presented with the possibility, you said:

    meh, if we have to go through a few managers who cares.
    This is again where I think you lack perspective. You think there's a 66% chance that the next manager will be no worse than Wenger, and even if he isn't, it's not a big deal (again, your words).

    Maybe it's not a big deal to you, but again, considering what a massive deal your current predicament appears to be to you, I dread to think how you'd deal with mid-table mediocrity, let alone relegation.
  • THFourteen 20 Feb 2013 12:59:04 45,449 posts
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    kalel wrote:Maybe it's not a big deal to you, but again, considering what a massive deal your current predicament appears to be to you, I dread to think how you'd deal with mid-table mediocrity, let alone relegation.
    You do realise this is an internet forum and i dont generally spend all of my time ranting and raving about Wenger IRL? Or trolling the Wii U for that matter.

    Football analysis tends to focus on the negative. Fans of all clubs on internet forums generally post about the negatives. Thats where people see improvements can be made.

    I honestly believe that with the playing staff we have, there are other managers out there who can consistently change the tactics and set the team up to beat those teams with players worse than we have (Bradford, Birmingham, Blackburn etc).

    Thats what i'm saying about Wenger. Thats why i think that another manager would be better. Not because i think we will finish above Chelsea/Man U / Man City
  • caligari 20 Feb 2013 13:01:59 17,582 posts
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    Laudrup to Arsenal. You heard it here first!
  • Deleted user 20 February 2013 13:40:52
    @THFourteen

    I get all that. It really comes down to a very simple point of disagreement. You seem to think it's pretty likely that your next manager will do better, or at least do no worse. I strongly disagree, and I also think you have a pretty naive view on what happens if/when he's not.

    We'll get to find out soon enough though, so exciting times for both of us.
  • Syrette 20 Feb 2013 14:17:10 48,966 posts
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    By and large Arsenal fans are ungrateful moaners.

    Just wait till the summer - buy big, and kick on next year.
  • Blotto 20 Feb 2013 14:43:44 2,778 posts
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    Syrette wrote:
    Just wait till the summer - buy big, and kick on next year.
    I'm all for a bit of banter, but this is just cruel.
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