Silent Hill: Downpour Page 12

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  • DUFFMAN5 26 Aug 2013 10:07:32 14,571 posts
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    @BillCityfingers

    I enjoyed it and completed, but you are right some bits are tough. Play Homecoming that is more of a Silent Hill game.

    I have played all of the SH games including the wii and psp ones. Enjoyed all of them.
    The original 3 are far and away the best (we seem to say that a lot ;) ) but if you like the atmosphere and lore there is a lot to enjoy with them.

    "Duffman the grey is thrusting in the direction of the problem! Oh, yeah!"

  • Deleted user 26 August 2013 10:26:56
    @DUFFMAN5 Got Homecoming on way courtesy of amazon. Should be here today actually, going to play it after Downpour.

    Would love to play 2 & 3 again but just can't face the HD collection (although saying that I''ve seen a playthrough of most of 2 and it doesn't look THAT bad apart from a few certain points)

    Realised recently that although I got pretty far in to 4 I never actually finished it. Thought it was good though. Those unkillable ghosts always freaked me out.

    Not played 1, or the others on wii or psp.

    Can't wait to actually get into town. Loved the diner and old house, mines are a bit generic but still good (the info panels and stuff you pick up to read really add to the atmosphere). But yeah, jesus, combat is tough. Satisfying when you DO kill something though.
  • -cerberus- 26 Aug 2013 10:43:30 2,704 posts
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    @BillCityfingers Trust me, I know the original games by heart: the HD collection is fucking atrocious. And it's not just the fog either :p But really, they have been tampered with... Badly. Voice-overs, sound FX are all screwed up, even the fucking music has been butchered.

    I highly recommend you get the PSN version of SH1 though. Well worth a look!

    Honestly, I don't know how anyone can be so forgiving of HC & DP (or even Origins & SM). They really are terrible fucking games made by incompetent cretins. The stories (all poor SH2 ripoffs), the idiotic and generic characters, the retarded puzzles, the severe lack of polish, the unforgivable liberties they take with certain creatures such as nurses, Pyramid Head, etc.

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Deleted user 26 August 2013 10:52:06
    They tampered with the soundtrack? Oh... :-(

    I think with regards to forgiveness towards DP (can't speak for HC yet), fair enough it probably doesn't compare to SH2 but I still think it's possible to enjoy it. I am so far anyway. Horses for courses and all that.

    But then I do have a knack for enjoying games that other people hate.

    I should add that it all depends on what your point of comparison is I suppose. I haven't played a Silent Hill game since The Room came out. Therefore I'm comparing it more with recent 3rd person survival horror entries I've played. The closest being Alan Wake, and it's miles better than that yawn inducing shoot-fest.

    Also, while I'm into the SH back story and mythos, I'm not into it enough to be against liberty taking with elements within it. I suppose a truer fan would have more of an issue but I'd rather take things for what they are and enjoy them on their own merits.

    Edited by BillCityfingers at 10:57:51 26-08-2013
  • Darth_Flibble 26 Aug 2013 10:54:36 1,666 posts
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    The problem is they have tried "to fix the combat" but they have not done a good job. They didn't make combat hard, its just bad but the game should be about fear not clubbing monsters to death
  • Deleted user 26 August 2013 10:59:33
    The thing is so far I keep trying to lock on, roll behind them and backstab.

    Too much Dark Souls.

    Edited by BillCityfingers at 10:59:47 26-08-2013
  • -cerberus- 26 Aug 2013 11:30:46 2,704 posts
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    @BillCityfingers That's the thing though; when it has the Silent Hill name on the box, you have no choice but to judge it as a SH game. But even so... All post-2004 SH games are trash when judged on their own merits. It's like Kubrick's 1997 made-for-TV The Shining. It's basically the same film but, judged on its own merits, poorly made.

    And ssst, no Alan Wake bashing... You'll wake up... the Choppi :lol:

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • -cerberus- 26 Aug 2013 11:32:36 2,704 posts
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    @Darth_Flibble Downpour's combat in a nutshell... See, SH used to be about shitting bricks, not throwing them :(

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • sega 26 Aug 2013 11:40:20 804 posts
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    Darth_Flibble wrote:
    The problem is they have tried "to fix the combat" but they have not done a good job. They didn't make combat hard, its just bad but the game should be about fear not clubbing monsters to death
    I honestly think all Silent Hill games should just remove the combat, like Shattered Memories does (best one in my humble opinion). If future entries in the series took more influence from Amnesia I'd be more interested in this series.

    The best thing about Silent Hill is exploring a spooky, deserted town in the middle of nowhere with an everpresent sense of dread. The fear is reduced to zero when you find out the town is filled with weapons, ammunition, pipes etc and that's all you need to defeat the monsters.
  • Deleted user 26 August 2013 12:40:40
    @-cerberus- Yes but to use your comparison to the Shining. The TV mini-series was King's response to the Kubrick film, wishing it to be more faithful to his novel. I enjoyed the mini-series and the film independently of one-another. Being a massive fan of the novel I disliked Kubrick's film when I first saw it but now come to regard it as one of my favourite films of all time. So I DO think it's possible, despite the fact that they both bear the name "The Shining" that they can be judged independently and enjoyed on their own merits. Same, to me, with SH.

    Back to being actual good games as far as games go. I can't account for taste. I fully see your point of view that to you DP was not a good game. But I'm enjoying it so far and that's all I can say.

    I won't get started on Alan Wake... Promise :p
  • -cerberus- 26 Aug 2013 12:53:11 2,704 posts
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    @BillCityfingers Personally, I think Kubrick's film did a fine job filtering out the crap from the novel (of which I honestly don't remember too much...). Found the 1997 version atrocious to sit through, perhaps because Mick Garris is just a terrible director... :lol:

    And of course, who am I to say what you can or can't enjoy. :) I'm just saying that a standard in quality was set with the original games, and for the newer ones to not even come close is something that I find incredibly hard to stomach. Silent Hill fans deserve better. I'd say even more: the series itself deserves better!

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Deleted user 26 August 2013 13:52:08
    Of course, I may be arguing a moot point if after another few hours in my opinion changes!!
  • Deleted user 26 August 2013 14:16:39
    I thought Downpour was a decent game other than the fact it was a technical disaster that ran like utter shit which made some of the fights harder because your guy would teleport all over the shop because of the dire framerate/game autosaving every time you passed over a particular patch of ground.
  • Spong 26 Aug 2013 18:40:48 525 posts
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    So much hate in here over the last page for Downpour :(
    The only game I struggle to like is Shattered Memories, every other release (barring the Gameboy play novel and Book of Memories) all have at least something in their favour.
  • Deleted user 6 October 2013 09:57:06
    Well.

    Finished this last night and thought it was fantastic.

    Couple of glitches, mainly, and annoyingly, the fishing rod being unobtainable fir the "homeless" sidequest. Couldn't find it anywhere so checked a guide out of desperation to discover that it wasn't any any of the points it was meant to be. Whilst that meant I couldn't completely navigate the sewers I wasn't too put out as by that point I'd pretty much done the sidequests I wanted to (including the standout Telltale Heart, Rewind Time and the Cinema ones).

    This game managed to scare the pants of me on regular occasions and whilst the monster design wasn't particularly imaginative, they still inspired fear and my heart always lurched upon spying a weeping bat approaching out of the gloom/fog.

    My main critiscisms really are, firstly, although the side-quests encouraged exploration, the main narrative was incredibly linear and I would have liked to have been forced to explore more of the town. Since completing the orphanage, it felt like I was just being steered through linear streets towards the final act.

    Secondly, the final act itself decided to chuck tension out the window in favour of huge juggernauts and a ton of shotgun ammo. Saying that I still enjoyed it although it felt wrong suddenly forced into combat whereas I could always choose to leg it before.

    A note on the combat: Whilst being initially clunky and awkward I soon fell into my own beat with it. Found it easier to not block or lock on rather be mobile, run round their attacks and then get stuck in. Works for groups and single enemies. I still got hit a fair bit and there was always a bit of frantic panic but didn't think the combat was in anyway unfair.

    Thirdly, the weird frame-rate juddering, which I hadn't really noticed was all of a sudden really pronounced towards the docks and definitely detracted from that section.

    But there was so much it did right. Loved the fog shrouded town, the amazing otherworld sections, the policecars, the narrative, main character. The puzzles I thought were balanced just right for a simpleton like me to still figure them out. The first time you enter the town itself is glorious and and early on is a fantastic and terrifying place to explore. Loads of nice horror set piece scares (including an unexpected but effective classic bloodied hand against glass scene when I was looking through a telescope).

    Liked the rain and water effects, with being trapped outside in a downpour one of the most nerve shredding experiences in a game as I prepared myself of the inevitable onslaught.

    All in I genuinely had a great time with this game which was a ton better than many reviews suggested. As good as 2? Probably not but an excellent game in it's own right that manages to deliver an authentic horror experience. Very glad I played this.

    Best moment on the game:
    Rewinding the gramophone to reveal a shocking act of domestic violence leading to one of the the best monster encounters in a horror game ever.

    There it is.

    Having a break with then on to Homecoming.

    Edited by BillCityfingers at 10:03:39 06-10-2013
  • DUFFMAN5 6 Oct 2013 10:02:30 14,571 posts
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    I really enjoyed Homecoming, more than Downpour, so you should be in for a treat :-)

    "Duffman the grey is thrusting in the direction of the problem! Oh, yeah!"

  • Darth_Flibble 6 Oct 2013 11:11:57 1,666 posts
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    A lot of horror games do the thing mentioned "chuck tension out the window in favour of huge juggernauts and a ton of shotgun ammo."

    I think because RE4 did it, everyone has to copy
  • Deleted user 6 October 2013 12:17:16
    At the same time it was quite fitting in a way that the game built to a more violent crescendo. Combat kills tension though, no escaping that as once the adrenalin kicks in you're no longer scared.

    But really, what a game overall. Full of memorable moments. One of those few games where I wanted to shake the devs firmly by the hand.

    I don't know why but I seem to enjoy games that review in the 6's and 7's more than others that score higher.
  • -cerberus- 6 Oct 2013 12:30:23 2,704 posts
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    BillCityfingers wrote: But really, what a game overall. Full of memorable moments. One of those few games where I wanted to shake the devs firmly by the hand.
    I seem to find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum as I felt the need to slap them silly, one by one.

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Deleted user 6 October 2013 12:54:19
    -cerberus- wrote:
    BillCityfingers wrote: But really, what a game overall. Full of memorable moments. One of those few games where I wanted to shake the devs firmly by the hand.
    I seem to find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum as I felt the need to slap them silly, one by one.
    Ha ha. Wondered if you'd appear ;-)
  • Spong 6 Oct 2013 14:21:43 525 posts
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    Nice write up, good to see the game is still getting the love it deserves. I hope Vatra are on board for a second game one day, they're the first dev to get it right.
  • -cerberus- 6 Oct 2013 14:43:04 2,704 posts
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    @BillCityfingers :cool: Hey, at least you got your money's worth ;)

    Spong wrote:
    Nice write up, good to see the game is still getting the love it deserves. I hope Vatra are on board for a second game one day, they're the first dev to get it right.
    How, exactly, did they get it right? Nonsensical story (another poor man's SH2 rip-off), generic one-dimensional cardboard cut-out characters (save for the postman), preposterous and uninspired enemy design, pish-easy baby puzzles, lousy combat, oozes technical and graphical issues (SH3 & 4 look and run better), demonic cop-cars (seriously...), gasmask-wearing Pyramid Head knock-off, etc. I could go on all day.

    DP's sole redeeming quality that comes to mind is the soundtrack; it's fresh and fits the series quite well.

    Edited by -cerberus- at 14:44:03 06-10-2013

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Darth_Flibble 6 Oct 2013 15:05:38 1,666 posts
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    There is things to like about downpour but the post above nails what is wrong with it
  • Spong 6 Oct 2013 15:58:56 525 posts
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    -cerberus- wrote:
    How, exactly, did they get it right? Nonsensical story (another poor man's SH2 rip-off), generic one-dimensional cardboard cut-out characters (save for the postman), preposterous and uninspired enemy design, pish-easy baby puzzles, lousy combat, oozes technical and graphical issues (SH3 & 4 look and run better), demonic cop-cars (seriously...), gasmask-wearing Pyramid Head knock-off, etc. I could go on all day.
    There's no point in me listing what I like about it or what I feel Vatra did for the series because it'll all be dismissed by you as nonsense because you clearly hate the game. What can I say? Sucks to be you I guess, but I'll happily enjoy Downpour a bit more on your behalf.
  • -cerberus- 6 Oct 2013 16:09:35 2,704 posts
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    @Spong No please, I'm all ears. How exactly did Vatra get it right with DP?

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Spong 6 Oct 2013 16:57:12 525 posts
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    -cerberus- wrote:
    @Spong No please, I'm all ears. How exactly did Vatra get it right with DP?
    In a nutshell; they injected the game with some ideas I ultimately thought gave the staling series a much needed shot in the arm.

    If anything, during Downpour's development, I was the classic picture of a self-entitled Team Silent fan. Every bit of news I read about the game depressed me more & more. Combat like 0rigins? 0rigins' combat was shit. A new take on the Otherworld? Shattered Memories did that and it was beyond shit. A random character seemingly being dragged into the town just because of their emotional baggage? Pretty much every game since The Room has done that to death. No Akira doing the soundtrack? Jesus, could the game sound any worse? But I was wrong, everything I doubted and bitched about before release I ended up actually enjoying. Apart from the technicalities, the problems with the framerate and the shonky saving/loading, there's nothing about Downpour that I personally find worse than any other SH game I've played.

    The combat is fine for me, it's certainly a damn sight more realistic than storing four portable TVs in your padded jacket like 0rigins. But I also find it's better than the comedy whack-a-mole scenarios in games like SH1/2/3/4, and it beats the shit out of the pot luck melee combat in Homecoming. I genuinely shat myself during some surprise encounters, I haven't had that in a Silent Hill game since running into spirits in The Room. The weapon system gave a sense of rising panic almost all the time, worrying about a chair shattering and leaving me with nothing but a piece of pointed chair leg was great, and it added to that sense of security & relief when I stumbled across a firearm. Excluding 0rigins (which fucked it up anyway), I never worried about weapons at all before in a Silent Hill.

    I can't really go on about the story without getting bogged down in people's individual interpretations. What I see in Downpour probably isn't what others see, and I can't say I'm right and they're wrong. If you don't like the story, you don't like the story and there's nothing anyone can really say to change your mind. Downpour's story does its job for me, it even makes the town itself a character, something I feel no other game has really done. This is the first game where I genuinely got lost constantly during my first playthrough, the place felt so large and actually felt like a map rather than just another section of corridor painted to look like a street (like the other games do). All the sidequests gave the town so much more depth and it helped flesh out the new idea that the place was almost like a holding cell, full of people running from their own personal demons & executioners who occasionally interacted with each other.

    So yeah, Downpour does it for me. The only thing I'll concede is that I might've been a bit more eager to be pleased, but the blame for that lies with the flood of dreck that was Homecoming & Shattered Memories. If they hadn't been so terrible, I might've been more particular about Downpour. The only thing I can point at and say flat out that I don't like is the Devil's Pit section at the start. I think it's way too long.

    Edited by Spong at 16:58:19 06-10-2013
  • -cerberus- 7 Oct 2013 08:09:42 2,704 posts
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    @Spong What you just listed are reasons why you liked it - which is fair enough - but not why Vatra “got it right”. Like I said in a previous post: a standard in quality has been set (both artistically & technologically) by the original creators of the series. The recent spin-offs are clearly having a lot of trouble meeting that specific standard. Both the series and fans (whether they're “self-entitled” or not) deserve better. And with DP basically being a collection of the “Best of the Worst of post-SH3 games”, that "much needed shot in the arm" can only be interpreted as lethal injection.

    On the other hand, Daniel Licht "got it right"; he created a unique and atmospheric soundtrack that greatly enhances an otherwise deeply unscary experience.

    Edited by -cerberus- at 10:22:58 07-10-2013

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • jamesi 7 Oct 2013 10:06:26 203 posts
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    Remember the terrible reviews downpour got but it turned out to be one of my favourite games of this gen.I thought the narrative was great and it had some really scary moments,really eerie,with great twist of an ending.Thought Homecoming was good too but much prefered downpour and would like these guys to have crack at another,they will have improved as devs and hopefully fix some problems in the game.
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