What's America's problem? Page 158

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  • Toonster 11 Nov 2012 12:09:16 6,839 posts
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    It was voter fraud!

    I love how much these guys think they're onto something.

    3DS: 0361-6951-2609 (Tom)

  • RedSparrows 11 Nov 2012 12:33:38 22,214 posts
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    It's scary.
  • FWB 11 Nov 2012 13:12:10 44,071 posts
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    I love the map they through up without highlighting that most of that red is virtually uninhabited.
  • Bremenacht 11 Nov 2012 13:29:18 17,687 posts
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    Oddly, when you follow the citations, you end up at even more nutjob sites! Who'da guessed!

    My favourite, so far:

    If you voted for Obama, or helped the Democrats steal the election: Go back to Africa!
  • Nasty 11 Nov 2012 13:30:34 4,741 posts
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    I feel some comments coming on
  • Mola_Ram 11 Nov 2012 13:35:17 7,133 posts
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    Meh. I'm over laughing at nutjobs for the moment. There's been so much of it the past few days that I don't think I could possibly wring any more entertainment out of them.

    What's more important at the moment is whether America can unfuck itself over the next few years.
  • Khanivor 11 Nov 2012 14:46:30 40,490 posts
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    Based on the public posturing of the GOP on the hill it doesn't look likely.
  • Moot_Point 11 Nov 2012 15:17:10 3,958 posts
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    It isn't surprising that the GoP hasn't won, and it shows how much damage George Bush did whilst in power. He shook public confidence to the core. So the republicans have nobody but themselves to blame.

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • cyber_nicco 11 Nov 2012 17:00:40 460 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    After reading the things i've read in the last few days i really hope that it's just the cockroaches coming out of the woodwork before scattering back to their holes. There has to be some Republicans who aren't touched by madness somewhere. I refuse to believe they are all hypocritical, racist nutjobs with petulant anger issues and guns in their bibles.

    I wonder if there will be a more liberal split in the GOP in the next few years? Are there any financial conservatives yet social liberals in the republicans? America's too a big place to have a full consensus in the party surely?

    I mean, where are the sane voices for the republicans? Most of what i'm seeing is blamestorming and denial. Digging a deeper, more acidic hole to stick your head in can't be the answer.
    There really are a fair number of reasonable Republicans, but they are largely shouted down by the extremist minority. It's a real problem for the Republicans. Part of the problem is the primary system of choosing candidates. Not really the system, itself - rather, that the more extreme party memebers are more likely the ones to participate (vote). This shapes the dialog of the party and the candidate.

    Interestingly, this happpens with the Democrats, as well. Though it is more confined by the media (it seems). I live in San Francisco, California, and trust me when I tell you that there are many liberal extremists, too. They revile people like Romney as the antichrist. When in fact he just has differing - and not evil - views in a few key areas.

    Anyway, that's more from me than anyone should have to hear.
  • Khanivor 11 Nov 2012 17:12:04 40,490 posts
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    Ironically, the reasonable Republicans are similar to many Democrats in that they are spineless. Witness Boner saying right after the election he was willing to work on taxes, which he quickly walked back in a Michael Jackson style to where he was facing the opposite direction 24 hours later. You know he got told by the TP bampots that he must pretend the defeat of Romney's tax plans by the electorate was actually a mandate to cut all taxes, close loopholes and broaden the tax base in disguise.

    The next six weeks are going to be scary. I don't think the GOP will drive the nation off the cliff for ideological reasons but who knows. The sane party may have so little power now that they will bring the whole temple down as a final act.

    The ballot measures which passed are the second nail in the coffin of the GOP. The first is simple demographics. Then having social issues obviously moving against the direction you have been pushing shows that there's not really much left powering the Republican party other than momentum.

    Part of me would like to see the dismantling of Medicare, as the quicker the country can be rid of the Baby Boomers the quicker it can attempt to start healing itself and allowing itself to position itself for the future.

    I think in the future one of the greatest mysteries to the public will be why the nation passed by the greatest opportunity for the cheapest money in five generations to fix an obviously crumbling infrastructure. If the US does wind up way down the pecking order in 50 years I think blame must be put on the GOP, Tea Party and all the other ignorant morans who prevented the country from sorting decades of neglect while aligning itself with the needs of future.
  • Psychotext 11 Nov 2012 18:16:02 53,915 posts
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    Interesting couple of posts. :)
  • RobTheBuilder 11 Nov 2012 21:36:30 6,521 posts
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    The worst thing is not that these people exist, as every country has nutjobs... But that the republicans actively try to appeal to this audience.

    Would be like the Tories going after the BNP vote.
  • RichieTenenbaum 11 Nov 2012 21:59:12 2,187 posts
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    @RobTheBuilder they would if the BNP or UKIP or whatever did t exist. You only have to see the 1970s Tory flyers with 'If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour' on to see this. The problem is the Tea Party needs to be just that. The Tea Party, not the GOP. It's absolutely badly to think that 350 million people (or whatever the US pop is) can be represented by 2 parties. That everyone is either blue or red. Ok, over here we may be effectively 2 party, but those smaller parties are important in the debate.
  • Khanivor 11 Nov 2012 22:50:58 40,490 posts
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    There is a greater movement towards independents in the US. 2-3 senators and a number of members of the House are not members of either party. Of course, to have any influence they wind up caucusing with one or the other, which sorta negates the point.

    Unless the GOP takes back the helm from the flaming lunatics then they are going to become weaker and weaker and have less and less direct power. If this happens, the US is more likely to become a single party nation then anything else.
  • Moot_Point 11 Nov 2012 22:54:05 3,958 posts
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    @RichieTenenbaum Without minority parties who crave power, the Tories would have never have got elected.

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • RobTheBuilder 11 Nov 2012 23:10:21 6,521 posts
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    @RichieTenenbaum agreed.
  • Mola_Ram 11 Nov 2012 23:14:58 7,133 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Based on the public posturing of the GOP on the hill it doesn't look likely.
    Well, lets just hope that the posturing is just that, and that they plan to negotiate regardless.

    And despite how funny it might be and how good it might feel, the "har har har, my team won, SUCK IT REPUBLICAN BITCHES" grandstanding of some liberals isn't really going to help. And one would say the same about some conservatives if the tables were turned.
  • Rodney 11 Nov 2012 23:24:19 1,859 posts
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    Does anyone think it is possible that some  extremist fringe elements might turn militant or a secessionist movement might arise? I've seen a bit of chatter along these lined on twitter/facebook but obviously it's just talk for now. Maybe that would be for the better let them have thier theocratic state and 'small government'.

    Also, I really dont get all these Republicans calling Obama a socialist. Its a total abuse of the word. By their definition, all of Europe, South America, Australia etc are socialist states. Do they really think America is the last bastion of freedom and capitalism in a world of communist dictatorships?
  • Mola_Ram 11 Nov 2012 23:28:53 7,133 posts
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    People in Texas have talked about secession for ages. It's never happened. And I don't think it will happen now, regardless of where it is or who's saying it.

    There might be more breakaway political parties though.
  • RobTheBuilder 11 Nov 2012 23:29:05 6,521 posts
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    @Rodney the Republican movement use socialism as a dirty word to create a Mis-information about the democrats. Just as they do with communism and so on.
  • Khanivor 11 Nov 2012 23:48:07 40,490 posts
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    It's always possible that some of the fringe elements might take direct action. After all, the greatest home grown terrorists have always tended to come from the right-wing.

    It would be amusing if a state decided to secede. Texas can go and then we can bring in Puerto Rico and then we wouldn't need to change the flag.

    It's quite incredible how little coverage their voting to become the 51st state has got. It's almost as if no one wants to push the loonies over the edge and they themselves can't cope with the notion so are in denial it exists. Especially as it's most likely that when Puerto Rico becomes a state their two Senators will lean Democratic. In fact, adding a 51st state is sure to have lots of administration implications, such as where the 'majority' tipping point lies in the Senate when dealing with fillibusters.

    Mad, bad and dangerous to know American politics may be but it sure isn't boring!
  • Rodney 12 Nov 2012 01:12:05 1,859 posts
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    A bit like thier use of 'liberal' as pejorative even though their economic philosphy is extremely liberal
  • RobTheBuilder 12 Nov 2012 01:15:31 6,521 posts
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    @Khanivor That's always likely given that liberalism per se is more peaceful and open to negotiation.
  • Rodney 12 Nov 2012 01:19:24 1,859 posts
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    And because they are all fucking draft-dodging, God hating commie hippies
  • RobTheBuilder 12 Nov 2012 01:21:18 6,521 posts
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    "There's a haircut you can set your watch to."
  • dsmx 12 Nov 2012 01:53:44 7,582 posts
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    Well the republicans are going to have to do a hell of a lot of soul searching and re-evaluation what they want to stand for before the next election.

    Hillary will probably run for president in the next election and well, at that point she would of been around the white house for 16 years which will be an interesting thing to campaign with and she could very well pick bill clinton for vice president and that would indeed be a incredibly scary line up for the republicans to face as they stand right now.

    The republican party is at a cross roads right now and if they go to the centre to appeal to more people they will lose the extremists who vote for them religiously and the probably won't be elected for 10 or so years but they will avoid ending up a fringe party. On the other hand if the keep up with trying to appeal to the right wing nutjobs they will piss off what are for the moment minorities for generations while the baby boomers gradually die and erode their share of the vote.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • RobTheBuilder 12 Nov 2012 01:59:13 6,521 posts
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    Problem is, in terms of international relations Hillary Clinton has been acting in a very Republican manner for a while.

    Also, I think it is dangerously unhealthy for two families to have been in power for 6 out of 8 presidential terms (which it would be if she won).
  • Mola_Ram 12 Nov 2012 02:02:22 7,133 posts
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    In terms of a lot of things Obama is basically a moderate Republican. If Americans weren't such diehard supporters of their "teams" they might b e able to agree or disagree with him based on things he has actually done, not what party he belongs to.
  • RobTheBuilder 12 Nov 2012 02:12:18 6,521 posts
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    @Mola_Ram All American politics is a big shove right of most democratic countries. I find it ironic that the country in which democracy has the least impact on policy, and is arguably implemented in the most ineffective, unreliable and damaged way, is the one that claims to wish to bring freedom and choice to the world.
  • Rodney 12 Nov 2012 02:44:30 1,859 posts
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    Im not sure, surely if they go centre-right they will still be the only viable choice for the far right by default.

    Also many minorities are socially conservative. If the Republicans can find a way to be more inclusive then they could capture a lot more minority votes. Particularly if the economy hadn't picked up by 2016. Who's that latino Republican from Florida, Ruban or something, I reckon he could be a vote winner for them (sadly)
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