Is this another Iranian revolution beginning? Page 9

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  • Retroid Moderator 21 Jun 2009 17:02:59 44,512 posts
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    Wasn't where I first read it. Why...?

    Oh, I see: Guardian Council, I see what you there! :)
  • Khanivor 22 Jun 2009 16:15:18 40,554 posts
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    Seems like the fear is being put back in them. Sad :(
  • mcmonkeyplc 22 Jun 2009 16:27:01 39,442 posts
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    I hate it when im right :(

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Deleted user 22 June 2009 16:44:42
    I think there's still a shitload of resentment bubbling under the surface that isn't going to go away. Also, unlike China, it's not as if the government is a stable entity either.
  • FWB 22 Jun 2009 16:46:25 44,344 posts
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    If this dissipates/get's clamped down on there is only one thing that will save the regime in the long-run, and that's opening up. If they turn to a more hardline attitude they'll be a revolution.
  • Khanivor 22 Jun 2009 16:57:19 40,554 posts
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    Yeah, while right now it seems like there's going to be no quick fix the regime had better realise it is going to have to open up, and quickly. Once the meatheads doing the oppression have cooled off and realise the reality they might not be so eager to go back to cracking skulls for the side whose time is obviously winding down.

    Hopefully the momentum will not be lost right now, as I think a changed Iran at this point in time would be wonderful, (anyone else think the slew of new, huge terror bombings in Iraq is not a coincidence?) and cannot come soon enough. But if it's not going to happen soon it seems real obvious to me it's going to happen in the not too distant future. I don't think the Iranian people are going to be crushed as easily as the Chinese were 20 years ago.
  • Paperghost 22 Jun 2009 17:43:34 1,702 posts
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    quick tip for anyone following events on twitter via the #tags.

    there's a crapload of malware installers being pimped under some of the more common ones like #neda, #iran etc and loads of them are being retweeted by people who aren't bothering to check what they're resending all over the place.
  • dnbuk 22 Jun 2009 21:23:07 4,943 posts
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1552784/Bush-sanctions-black-ops-against-Iran.html

    Article from 2007. Obvious CIA involvement is obvious (again)
  • oceanmotion 22 Jun 2009 21:32:26 15,840 posts
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    I was quite surprised to see how Western some of the people are in Iran. It would be good to see a country and people become something they want on there own and not be battered into horrible ways by lunatics.
  • Deleted user 23 June 2009 08:19:14
    Iranians have lived in a halfway house for years. They have access to excellent education, freely move around the globe and the infrastructure there means mobile phones and internet are accessible. They're very modern. Unlike the government. It's also very telling that some of the more violent Basij are being reported as Lebanese Hezebollah (solidifying the "rumours" of Iran's guiding hand in that country).

    Meanwhile, the coup has solidified with the report that the Guardian Council have found "no irregularities" (obviously not counting the huge swing votes in traditional and polled anti-Addy areas).

    I don't know what the people are doing now. They're obviously afraid since the Neda incident, a woman who got shot by the Guard for getting out of her car for air at the wrong time.

    What the Iranians need to do, if they crave change, is repeat the gatherings of last week. I think some have lost their heart, but it's the only way that they'll be able to confront the Basij and Revolutionaries.
  • JediMasterMalik 23 Jun 2009 14:44:38 11,820 posts
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    I've been loving Jason Jones' coverage of Iran on the daily show, I recommend people catch it, it's very funny. :)(
  • Gl3n Moderator 23 Jun 2009 14:51:35 5,387 posts
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    Iran has broadband etc.

    These places aren't as backward technologically as you'd think. I once lived in an isolated vietnamese town in some mountain range and had excellent signal on my 3G mobile.

    Better than where i am in Brighton, in fact!

    PSN: Glendemic Xbox: Gl3n Steam: Gl3n

  • Hunam 23 Jun 2009 14:54:02 20,674 posts
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    /stealth I am Gary Glitter post
  • FWB 23 Jun 2009 14:57:11 44,344 posts
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    :D
  • Gl3n Moderator 23 Jun 2009 15:03:09 5,387 posts
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    I worked in a school as well :(

    The Glitter news broke a month after i had returned.

    PSN: Glendemic Xbox: Gl3n Steam: Gl3n

  • NBZ 23 Jun 2009 23:34:53 2,371 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:
    ...the coup has solidified with the report that the Guardian Council have found "no irregularities" (obviously not counting the huge swing votes in traditional and polled anti-Addy areas)...

    The BBC was reporting that they reported finding irregularities, but not enough to be of significance to the final outcome?

    Either way, a lot to answer for.
  • Deleted user 23 June 2009 23:43:47
    Read.
  • NBZ 23 Jun 2009 23:49:55 2,371 posts
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    thanks, but that is a few days older. Looking for the one I read today. (It was more damning in general, but the official Iranian opinion was no longer that it was whiter than white, but that it was white enough.)

  • Deleted user 24 June 2009 08:03:25
    Depends which official Iranian opinion you're going for. :)
  • cubbymoore 24 Jun 2009 08:06:13 36,488 posts
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    No revolution at all it seems now, the police crackdown has deterred enough of them to quieten down. As long as they still bow down to the Ayatollah nothing will be a revolution. Seems as if the status quo has been restored unfortunately.
  • Deleted user 24 June 2009 08:10:32
    I'm not so sure that's the case. There's still people in the thousand trying to gather, and every night the calls of Allahu Akbar from the rooftops get louder.

    As the correspondants have been saying, this is how revolutions start, not end. Whether anything comes of it, who knows, but the status quo has been challenged and Iran will never be the same again.
  • cubbymoore 24 Jun 2009 08:17:43 36,488 posts
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    I'm just not so sure. The public of Iran know that the only sense of democracy they had has been stolen from them, so maybe it's a last straw thing that could push for a challenge of the leader's power, but it still seems that what they mostly want is a new president. Maybe further acts of suppression might change that.

    I'm just saying that even if Ahmadinejad were cast out somehow, the Ayatollah still goes unopposed. And if he goes unopposed then there is no revolution, just some form of evolution.
  • Deleted user 24 June 2009 08:19:10
    Also, to get a clearer picture you need to visit more than the BBC. There's very little about Karoubi lashing out on the Beeb and more about one ex-revolutionary guard candidate pulling out.

    Karroubi speaks out.

    The "assaults, beatings and murder of innocent people" were committed by plain-clothed security forces, not by demonstrators as the Iranian media would like its audiences to believe, Karroubi said in an open letter addressed to Ezattollah Zarghami, which was posted on Karroubi's Web site.

    "You know well that those who support Mr. Ahmadinejad's government today are promoters of fanatic and Taliban-like Islam," Karroubi said.
  • Deleted user 24 June 2009 08:21:46
    cubbymoore wrote:
    I'm just not so sure. The public of Iran know that the only sense of democracy they had has been stolen from them, so maybe it's a last straw thing that could push for a challenge of the leader's power, but it still seems that what they mostly want is a new president. Maybe further acts of suppression might change that.

    I'm just saying that even if Ahmadinejad were cast out somehow, the Ayatollah still goes unopposed. And if he goes unopposed then there is no revolution, just some form of evolution.

    Absolutely he's opposed, there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes.

    The acts of suppression being carried out by the guards has broken their faith in the system. Most were angry about the vote, now the anger has extended to even breaking the law of the Ayatollah. That's a pretty huge deal. Most protesters are talking in different ways outside of mass rallies now.

    This has not ended.
  • cubbymoore 24 Jun 2009 08:22:28 36,488 posts
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    Well, understandably the bbc's probably trying not to exacerbate the scapegoat situation it's already in.
  • Deleted user 24 June 2009 08:26:19
    The beeb is doing a good job, really. It really couldn't do one better.

    To note, they've not mentioned that CNN have been accused of hacking networks in a "cyber war" and that CNN is a training ground for cyber-terrorism. It's not as if the beeb are the only one being washed by the Ayatollahs government.
  • Articulate-Troll 24 Jun 2009 11:54:56 3,101 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:

    Absolutely he's opposed, there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes.

    The acts of suppression being carried out by the guards has broken their faith in the system. Most were angry about the vote, now the anger has extended to even breaking the law of the Ayatollah. That's a pretty huge deal. Most protesters are talking in different ways outside of mass rallies now.

    This has not ended.

    I think you're getting a bit carried away with the news coverage. Sure it's unusual the defy the Ayatollah but it's still ultimately being orchestrated by a small percentage of middle class students with support from the odd higher up. Compared to the overthrow of the Shah when there was literally so many people protesting they couldn't arrest them all these protests are rather minor.

    Besides, the Ayatollah and his cronies were largely responsible for the original revolution and they're well aware of the tactics used by revolutionaries. They're not going to let the same thing happen to them.
  • Widge Moderator 24 Jun 2009 11:59:42 13,475 posts
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    squarejawhero wrote:
    the calls of Allahu Akbar from the rooftops get louder

    "its a trap!"?

    _ _ _

    www.unpaused.co.uk - electronic noise adjective salad

  • Deleted user 24 June 2009 13:17:44
    Articulate-Troll wrote:
    squarejawhero wrote:

    Absolutely he's opposed, there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes.

    The acts of suppression being carried out by the guards has broken their faith in the system. Most were angry about the vote, now the anger has extended to even breaking the law of the Ayatollah. That's a pretty huge deal. Most protesters are talking in different ways outside of mass rallies now.

    This has not ended.

    I think you're getting a bit carried away with the news coverage. Sure it's unusual the defy the Ayatollah but it's still ultimately being orchestrated by a small percentage of middle class students with support from the odd higher up. Compared to the overthrow of the Shah when there was literally so many people protesting they couldn't arrest them all these protests are rather minor.

    Besides, the Ayatollah and his cronies were largely responsible for the original revolution and they're well aware of the tactics used by revolutionaries. They're not going to let the same thing happen to them.

    Not at all, the results of this will be far reaching and I think you've actually bypassed a lot of what happened this last week and who was involved. You certainly don't get the sort of crowds from a week Monday ago in the major cities unless you're talking about more than just middle class students. The key point is that this is not purely a student protest and those opposing the Ayatollah are a pretty big deal.

    Regardless if changes happen now or not, the aging government will consistently see challenges from the younger generation from this point onwards.

    Also we've seen Mullahs on the street defying the Ayatollah, its not as if the clerics are united either.

    You also have to factor in during the Shah revolution you included the bearded Islamic mercenaries who now rule the country, naturally you're not going to quite gather the same throng. The problem is the Shah had broken down from the inside, in this case there's a united front against protest from the various militia, army and police units who are not all Iranian. The protests may have gotten smaller (they say that the first two days of last week saw comparable rallies to the days of the Islamic revolt) but the circumstances are different - the anger isn't going to disappear overnight.
  • mcmonkeyplc 24 Jun 2009 13:24:02 39,442 posts
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    Has the revolution begun yet?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

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