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  • SaucyGeoff 25 Nov 2012 19:10:11 2,480 posts
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    It made me laugh when Jake said 'today is not about me'. Really, he had me fooled? Must have mentioned it was his final race 100s of times.

    Edited by SaucyGeoff at 19:10:52 25-11-2012
  • DUFFKING 25 Nov 2012 19:27:55 6,489 posts
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    "It's a great way to end the season but more importantly mate, I can see your nipple"
  • urban 25 Nov 2012 19:28:33 10,893 posts
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    I'm a bit weirded out but I genuinely think I'll miss Jake. His relationship with the two mclaren drivers has been very funny and he takes the piss out of EJ plenty.

    Good line that, haha!

    Edited by urban at 19:29:20 25-11-2012
  • Psychotext 25 Nov 2012 19:40:34 52,777 posts
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    Great season, great race.
  • brokenkey 25 Nov 2012 19:44:24 6,802 posts
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    altitude2k wrote:
    Kostabi wrote:
    They're all live on Radio 5, the TV deal is still the same as far as I know.
    Yeah, did they say "live on the BBC" rather than "live on BBC1"?

    3DS 3497-0122-1484
    XBL/PSN/NNID: CptnBrokenkey

  • SaucyGeoff 25 Nov 2012 19:48:18 2,480 posts
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    Just noticed Kimi finished a lap down, last man to be lapped.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 20:12:01 3,114 posts
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    SaucyGeoff wrote:
    Just noticed Kimi finished a lap down, last man to be lapped.
    Shit so he didn't quite manage to race every lap of the season then? Pisser.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 20:13:16 3,114 posts
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    My summary of the season is that someone driving a rocket ship scraped the title by 3 points from someone driving a shitbox. A hollow title for Vettel to my eyes, he still doesn't convince me in races.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 20:15:01 3,114 posts
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    In 3 years Button actually outscored Lewis by 15 points, interesting stat.

    Vettel should be elated that Lewis has effectively taken himself out of the title race for a while, I hope Kimi can step in his place.
  • Psychotext 25 Nov 2012 20:18:32 52,777 posts
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    Even coming from last to 4th in the rain today? (before admittedly fucking up the tyre choice)

    That aside, the Mclaren was even faster overall this year (even Hamilton says so) but if you can't finish races you don't win titles. It's worth remembering that whilst Alonso was knocked out in one race through no fault of his own, Vettel had failures from the lead in two races. Hamilton had even more. Take all the failures out of the equation and we'd have had a championship which reflected the strength of the cars (as it usually does).

    1: Hamilton
    2: Vetttel
    3: Alonso

    Frankly (and it pains me to say it), Hamilton deserved it more than anyone this year.

    Edited by Psychotext at 20:21:30 25-11-2012
  • 4gate 25 Nov 2012 20:18:59 362 posts
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    Nth wrote:
    My summary of the season is that someone driving a rocket ship scraped the title by 3 points from someone driving a shitbox. A hollow title for Vettel to my eyes, he still doesn't convince me in races.
    True, but on the other hand Vettel had to race his teammate as well as the rest of the field (as did the McLaren and other drivers), until it was clear who was the title challenger at least, whereas Alonso had a wingman from the first race of the season. I prefer to see a winner from a genuinely competitive team.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 25 Nov 2012 20:21:56 24,559 posts
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    Nth wrote:
    My summary of the season is that someone driving a rocket ship scraped the title by 3 points from someone driving a shitbox. A hollow title for Vettel to my eyes, he still doesn't convince me in races.
    I think you've made it abundantly clear for the last 2 or 3 seasons that Vettel couldn't do anything at all that would convince you to drop the mysterious chip on your shoulder.

    That Red Bull was far from being a rocket ship this year, too.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 20:31:11 3,114 posts
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    Pardon me for having an opinion. I've been watching F1 for 25 years and I'm saying what I see and feel. He's an astonishing driver in qualifying but for me his racing is average, if I ran a team I'd choose Lewis, Kimi or Fernando over Vettel every time. In fact I'd take Kimi and Fernando to be precise.
  • Psychotext 25 Nov 2012 20:32:31 52,777 posts
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    I think I'd choose Fernando and Kimi at the moment. Both Hamilton and Vettel are ridiculously quick but too unreliable right now.

    But that'll come with age.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 25 Nov 2012 20:36:08 24,559 posts
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    I'm not having a go, I just personally think your view of Vettel is slightly skewed :)

    Personally I'd go with Alonso or Hamilton at the moment. Both seem to be right at the top of their games right now. Which is weird and slightly scary to think that Vettel might have even more to give...
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 20:36:49 3,114 posts
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    I'm happy to say that I'm sure Vettel will improve with age, and I still maintain a couple of years driving a shitbox will do wonders for his racecraft.
  • Bremenacht 25 Nov 2012 20:47:10 15,753 posts
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    Vettel won a race in a shitbox. I don't see any problem with his 'racecraft' - he got put in a great car and has made the most of it every year since. Even in his worst year, he still won.

    I prefer other drivers, but I can't reasonably knock Vettel for anything.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • Bremenacht 25 Nov 2012 20:48:38 15,753 posts
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    Come to think of it, Hamilton will have his first F1 year in something a bit more like a shitbox next year. It'll be interesting to see how he handles it.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • Psychotext 25 Nov 2012 20:52:18 52,777 posts
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    Aye. I imagine Hamilton will gain a bit of humility next year whether he likes it or not.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 20:55:52 3,114 posts
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    That Toro Rosso was a clone of the Red Bull, it was far from the usual TR car, remember they had different rules on customer cars for that year. And Hamilton's McLaren at the start of 2009 was a true shed don't forget.
  • SaucyGeoff 25 Nov 2012 21:08:28 2,480 posts
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    I think Vettel and Alonso are a cut above the rest when it comes work ethic, brains and sheer desire to win. Vettel's not there yet, but if he can stop those childish moments, I'd be very suprised if he doesnt end up as one of the greats. I don't think theres any questions about his racecraft anymore, he's proved himself on various occasions, not least lap 2-lap 20 today.

    Bit harsh to call it a hollow victory, he probably didn't have the fastest car this year and he really had to fight for it today.
  • SaucyGeoff 25 Nov 2012 21:11:40 2,480 posts
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    Nth wrote:
    SaucyGeoff wrote:
    Just noticed Kimi finished a lap down, last man to be lapped.
    Shit so he didn't quite manage to race every lap of the season then? Pisser.
    Not quite, although at least managed to fuck it up in style! Never seen anything like that.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 21:13:22 3,114 posts
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    I'm also happy to link to this interview with Vettel where he comes across very well, I can't help but like the guy out of the car.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104593
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 21:15:13 3,114 posts
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    Raikkonen says he knew where he was going, but they had closed the gate he had used in 2001. "Next year I'll make sure it's open again."
  • Psychotext 25 Nov 2012 21:25:44 52,777 posts
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    Nth wrote:
    That Toro Rosso was a clone of the Red Bull
    The Toro Rosso and the Red Bull were shit that year. You're not talking about the 2009 Red Bull here (which was an absolute monster, but unreliable).
  • Kid_Icarus 25 Nov 2012 22:03:11 556 posts
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    I think "hollow victory" is a pretty fair assessment of Vettel's season. Hamilton and Alonso were on it all season, they were just held back by crap luck, crap pit crews and a crap car in the case of Alonso.
    Vettel on the other hand didn't do much until the second half of the season, presumably when a new upgrade hit and he was suddenly running rings round everyone.

    He didn't have the best car but he's had it better than his rivals, even when he messed up luck was on his side and he was able to take advantage of it. Which I suppose is the mark of a good racing driver.
  • Psychotext 25 Nov 2012 22:05:07 52,777 posts
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    That's pretty much it though, luck doesn't last three years, it all evens out over time.
  • Nth 25 Nov 2012 22:24:51 3,114 posts
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    I wonder how the British media will treat Di Resta now? I bet they conveniently forget the absurd hype they've come out with for the last two years now he's shown himself to be as dull on track as he is off it.
  • Kostabi 25 Nov 2012 22:26:13 4,661 posts
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    He's become a three time champion at a time when another five were also on the grid. That's an impressive feat in itself.

    I'm not a Vettel fan by any stretch but he can only race what's in front of him and if others are falling by the wayside then tough, really. Like Psychotext says, over three years bad luck/decisions all even out.
  • SolidSCB 25 Nov 2012 22:26:26 5,822 posts
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    Hakkinen was a bit lucky to win in 99, Schumacher was helped a lot in 03, Alonso had an angel on his shoulder in 2005, Hamilton had to rely on a last corner mistake to win in 08, Button was absolutely gifted the 09 championship on a silver platter and Vettel has sure as hell had a handful of luck this year.

    Did they deserve their championships? Absolutely. They and their teams did the job they had to do while those around them faltered. I don't rate Vettel as highly as Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonen if I'm honest, but one thing you can't take away from him is that he's a born winner. Schumacher holds almost every record in the book, but there have been better drivers before him and there are better drivers today. But he had the winning mentality needed to succeed, worked his arse off and got the job done. That's exactly what Vettel and Red Bull are doing and you can't take anything away from them for that. 'Should haves' don't win championships.
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