Wikileaks Page 68

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  • MightyMouse 16 Aug 2012 23:13:13 1,133 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    You said Sweden has been accused of breaching human rights. So has Ecuador. Particularly on free speech, by the looks of it. Hardly taking the moral high-ground by hiding in their embassy, is it?
    You're really failing reading comprehension. I pointed out that they've breached the ECHR by repatriating people to a country where they were tortured, and that this is relevant when deciding whether they'd extradite Assange. This isn't claiming that Sweden is morally inferior to Ecuador, and hence your link being irrelevant.
  • chopsen 16 Aug 2012 23:14:04 16,087 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    Journalism is not jury and executioner, and neither are you.
    Never said they were. But that doesn't mean if they uncover something it should just be dismissed out of hand either. Investigative journalism has a very important role in the world.
    ...which then needs to be investigated. Just saying that it's been reported she's a liar therefore Julian should not submit to investigation is hardly adequate. Then the consequences of those investigations need to followed through.

    If there is corruption within the state, then a grown up 1st world country should be able to sort it's own house out. Doesn't give carte blanche to people to not stand and face their accusers. Two wrongs do not make a right.
  • chopsen 16 Aug 2012 23:16:18 16,087 posts
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    MightyMouse wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    You said Sweden has been accused of breaching human rights. So has Ecuador. Particularly on free speech, by the looks of it. Hardly taking the moral high-ground by hiding in their embassy, is it?
    You're really failing reading comprehension. I pointed out that they've breached the ECHR by repatriating people to a country where they were tortured, and that this is relevant when deciding whether they'd extradite Assange. This isn't claiming that Sweden is morally inferior to Ecuador, and hence your link being irrelevant.
    Oh, I see. Fair enough. Does Ecuador definitely not then? !st time for everything I guess :) I'd piss myself laughing if they took him back to Ecuador and then rolled over the minute the US issued an extradition request.
  • MightyMouse 16 Aug 2012 23:22:00 1,133 posts
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    Nah Ecuador are very much not friendly with the US, presumably why he picked them. I have no idea as to whether he's guilty of rape, btw, it just annoys me that Sweden and the US have acted in the past in ways that make his decision not to face the allegations relatively understandable.
  • spamdangled 16 Aug 2012 23:36:55 27,356 posts
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    @Chopsen

    There's no extradition treaty between Ecquador and the US though, so that will never happen. The most that might happen is that the US make some threatening demands that they hand him over, but I doubt that would do anything beyond further straining an already hostile relationship, and which Ecquador would no doubt capitalise on to further their underdog status.

    EDIT: I stand corrected by meme. Thanks for that :-)

    Edited by darkmorgado at 00:25:27 17-08-2012

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  • spamdangled 16 Aug 2012 23:44:02 27,356 posts
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    Elizabeth Windsor ‏@Queen_UK

    Perfect to pass the time if you're seeking asylum in a Latin American embassy: http://amzn.to/J7EeEa

    Elizabeth Windsor ‏@Queen_UK

    Text from Julian Assange: "I want to break free! I want to break free from your lies you're so self-satisfied, I don't need you!"

    Elizabeth Windsor ‏@Queen_UK

    Considering an application from Julian Assange for asylum inside the Celebrity Big Brother house.

    Elizabeth Windsor ‏@Queen_UK


    Text from Nick Clegg: "OMG Julian Clary is moving to Ecuador!" Not responding.
    :lol:

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  • chopsen 16 Aug 2012 23:53:22 16,087 posts
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    But what about

    http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/traites/en_traites-ext-usa-ecu.pdf

    and

    http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Ecuador%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty-Supplementary%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf
  • Deleted user 17 August 2012 00:17:55
    To nip it in the bud straight away, the treaty doesn't cover political refugees or whatever. But that's not really the point. The point is a treaty exists quite happily, which makes statements like this:

    darkmorgado wrote:
    There's no extradition treaty between Ecquador and the US though
    hilariously telling.
  • spamdangled 17 Aug 2012 00:23:51 27,356 posts
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    @meme

    Am I wrong then? If so, I stand corrected.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 00:24:01 17-08-2012

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  • oceanmotion 17 Aug 2012 00:26:08 15,969 posts
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    Why doesn't he just go back to Sweden and get it over with, it's just an accusation that probably won't come to anything. He is famous enough to not be lost forever if the US somehow manage to get him. The spotlight will be on him at all times. They can't exactly arrest and torture him for answers in this day and age. If anything this will bring attention to the US they won't like which makes me think Assange is bit silly in the way he is acting.
  • FatSternKikwi 17 Aug 2012 00:31:26 573 posts
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    Actually arresting him and torturing him is pretty much a guarantee.

    The US don't have shit like freedom silly.
  • Khanivor 17 Aug 2012 00:32:00 40,850 posts
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    He's going to Sweden eventually. First he's going to cause a giant pain in everyone's ass and waste a whole bunch of other people's money. Then Ecuador is going to realise that having their ambassador kicked out and their embassy shut isn't worth it and hand him over.

    Does anyone know if Sweden has a statute of limitations?
  • SirScratchalot 17 Aug 2012 00:48:23 7,874 posts
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    Yup, but it's going to be an epic stay in Ecuadors embassy for mr Assange for that to happen. The not so clever man has already incarcerated himself I suppose, maybe he is afraid of freedom?
  • Khanivor 17 Aug 2012 00:50:28 40,850 posts
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    It'll be funny when, after spending a total of 18 months in the embassy, Assange is kicked out and sent to Sweden. Where he's found guilty of a minor charge and sentenced to three months house arrest.
  • SirScratchalot 17 Aug 2012 00:54:51 7,874 posts
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    MightyMouse wrote:
    Sweden has been found guilty of breaching its obligations under international law by the UN Human Rights Committee in the recent past. Ecuador and Assange would presumably take that into account when judging whether he might be extradited.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery
    Yup, this one thing happened once, in the dead of night. And this is indeed once, at the height of 9/11 fever. In relation to terrorism charges.
    The chances of this happening to Assange without the US actually threatening to invade is roughly zero to zero point zero.

    You realize Assange went to Sweden because he considered it a safe haven initially? And if he's afraid of being nabbed by a black helicopter than the extra rape charges are likely to matter very little.

    The charges are bumpkus but that dosen't mean they'll get dropped without investigation.
  • spamdangled 17 Aug 2012 00:55:06 27,356 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    It'll be funny when, after spending a total of 18 months in the embassy, Assange is kicked out and sent to Sweden. Where he's found guilty of a minor charge and sentenced to three months house arrest.
    That would indeed be amusing, but only if there's no sign of the US trying to exploit the situation to secure an extradition for their own purposes. The whole thing is now so intertwined with Wikileaks that it's really hard to separate one from the other without, as has been suggested, some sort of court drawing a line in the sand making clear that one issue won't be used as leverage for another.

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  • spamdangled 17 Aug 2012 00:56:10 27,356 posts
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    SirScratchalot wrote:
    The allegations are bumpkus but that dosen't mean they'll get dropped without investigation.
    Pedantically FTFY

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  • SirScratchalot 17 Aug 2012 00:57:54 7,874 posts
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    For The Free Yeast?
    I'm not so up on my acronyms these days...
  • spamdangled 17 Aug 2012 00:58:43 27,356 posts
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    SirScratchalot wrote:
    For The Free Yeast?
    I'm not so up on my acronyms these days...
    FTFY = fixed that for you

    Though good on you for supporting the cause of oppressed yeast everywhere! Goddamn those awful unleavened bread overlords.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 01:01:05 17-08-2012

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  • SirScratchalot 17 Aug 2012 01:01:15 7,874 posts
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    They might be single celled but other than that they're just like you and me! Rise up!
  • spamdangled 17 Aug 2012 01:02:02 27,356 posts
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    :-D

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  • FWB 17 Aug 2012 01:07:26 44,665 posts
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    I'm sure if Assange thought the case in Sweden would end up with a slap on the wrist - and by the sounds of it that's all it is - he'd have accepted the punishment and gone over. Sweden refusing to guarantee his non-extradition is the major issue here, is it not?

    The guy is still an egotistical twat.

    On another note, Britain even thinking about breaching the Ecuadorian embassy, no matter how minor the comment, is outrageous.

    Edited by FWB at 01:09:27 17-08-2012
  • MightyMouse 17 Aug 2012 01:09:13 1,133 posts
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    SirScratchalot wrote:
    MightyMouse wrote:
    Sweden has been found guilty of breaching its obligations under international law by the UN Human Rights Committee in the recent past. Ecuador and Assange would presumably take that into account when judging whether he might be extradited.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery
    Yup, this one thing happened once, in the dead of night. And this is indeed once, at the height of 9/11 fever. In relation to terrorism charges.
    The chances of this happening to Assange without the US actually threatening to invade is roughly zero to zero point zero.

    You realize Assange went to Sweden because he considered it a safe haven initially? And if he's afraid of being nabbed by a black helicopter than the extra rape charges are likely to matter very little.

    The charges are bumpkus but that dosen't mean they'll get dropped without investigation.
    Obviously he considered Sweden's laws, which are indeed much stronger on this point than the UK's. Practice may be different. The point is that the 'Sweden signed treaties hence couldn't do it' line is rather weakened when there's record of them, in fact, doing it. Why would you not take this into account if you were in his or the Ecuadorian government's shoes here?

    I am, of course, fascinated by your calculation of the probabilities involved.
  • DodgyPast 17 Aug 2012 02:46:57 8,478 posts
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    Considering the ridiculous shit the US have pulled with Kim Dotcom and New Zealand I know if it was me I'd avoid rolling the dice on my future.
  • angerisagift 19 Aug 2012 16:47:05 1,947 posts
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    Ok, before todays 'speech' by Assange, I was open minded as to what sort of a person he was. After reading the transcript of his speech today my opinion is that he is a self-aggrandising, egotistical, self-important knob head.

    That is all.

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  • Fab4 19 Aug 2012 16:54:49 6,092 posts
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    angerisagift wrote:
    Ok, before todays 'speech' by Assange, I was open minded as to what sort of a person he was. After reading the transcript of his speech today my opinion is that he is a self-aggrandising, egotistical, self-important knob head.

    That is all.
    Indeed.
  • spamdangled 19 Aug 2012 17:03:53 27,356 posts
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    What speech is this?

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  • disusedgenius 19 Aug 2012 17:05:46 5,359 posts
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    He gave one to day from the balcony of the embassy. Seems pretty self-aggrandising. Also seemed to just talk about the US, not about the whole 'sex crimes' thing.
  • Fab4 19 Aug 2012 17:06:13 6,092 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    What speech is this?
    He's been pontificating from the balcony of the Ecuadorian embassy today.
  • spamdangled 19 Aug 2012 17:06:51 27,356 posts
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    Ah right. Any links to footage?

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