Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning Review

By Oli Welsh Published 11 September, 2008

WAR counsel.

"The acronym should be WOAR, not WAR," our esteemed and not at all pedantic editor complained in the pub last night. Well, he's half-right; Mythic Entertainment's long-awaited, oft-delayed, EA-backed, Games Workshop-licensed monster fantasy MMO, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, should technically be dubbed WOAoR.

But he's also missing the point. Mythic picked the abbreviation with the same single-minded sense of purpose with which it has crafted this impressive new entry in the field of massively multiplayer RPGs. Those three angry letters send a message just as clear and pointed as Blizzard's three-letter exclamation of wonder. For all its tremendous debt to World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online is not about losing yourself in the scale and grandeur of an extravagant fantasy world. It's about the hard and gritty business of battle. WAR is all about war.

The push and counter-push of the battlefront is everywhere you look: from the bar in the top right of the screen that indicates whether Order or Destruction controls the zone you're in, to the grand Realm-versus-Realm endgame of capital city sieges; from the dynamic NPC battles littered throughout questing zones, to the way even small-scale player-versus-player battles naturally coalesce around a single, see-sawing frontline. At its best, WAR is less about standing toe-to-toe with your enemies than shoulder-to-shoulder with your allies.

As we remarked in our recent E3 and closed beta reports, this makes Warhammer Online a genuinely massively multiplayer game in a way most of its immediate competitors aren't. Although it's entirely possible to enjoy solo - and although it contains almost everything the millions who came to MMOs through WOW have come to expect - WAR's focus on realm warfare and the brilliant Public Quest system rely heavily on player mass.

'Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning' Screenshot 1

Horses for courses, dinosaurs for scandily-clad evil elf ladies.

This makes it hard to review before launch, especially on the underpopulated servers of the European open beta. However, there's nothing to say that this side of the game will have settled down in weeks' or even months' time; and in the meantime, we've had ample time on the finely finished and stable beta, exploring both early and late-level content. That's the basis of this review.

It's been obvious for some time now that Warhammer Online would be fighting-fit for its launch, and that's absolutely the case. With those final troublesome crash bugs eradicated, the game boasts sturdy networking, stable servers, rare bugs, a functional and detailed interface, a lavish amount of quests and play styles, and a reasonably if not spectacularly well-optimised engine (the frame-rate struggles a little more than it should, although most landscapes are more than usually busy with monsters and NPCs). With the account-creation problems of European operator GOA now ironed out, this is a very solid gaming experience, by MMO standards.

Solid is also the best word to describe the way WAR tackles the MMO basics. Mythic's grand vision and greatest innovations are all focused on pitching the Chaos mutants, Greenskins and Dark Elves of the Destruction side against the Empire humans, Dwarfs and High Elves who fight for Order. But like all grand visions, this needs to be built on something, and in this case it's the foundation stones of every RPG: class design, character progression, combat, loot, questing. In these, Warhammer Online is absolutely competent - but seldom inspired.

'Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning' Screenshot 2

Dwarf on gyrocopter not pictured. Yes really.

With Warhammer lore demanding that every class must be specific to one of the game's six races (technically seven, if you count both the goblins and orcs of the Greenskins), Mythic has had to field a huge roster of character careers. The fact that an additional four had to be cut shows just how difficult this was, and of the 20 remaining careers, there are no out-and-out duds. Most offer an interesting spin on one of the four classic archetypes (melee damage, ranged damage, tank and healer), but few have the clear personality, depth, and flexibility that characterise the very best MMORPG classes.

There's an attempt to give each class more individuality with a plethora of gimmicky skill mechanics, but in most cases, this doesn't help. The Witch Hunter's Judgements are just dressed-up combo points, and do nothing to distinguish this admittedly stylish gun-slinging crusader from a regular rogue. The Black Orc's three-stage battle plan makes playing this capable tank more limited and repetitive than it should be. The Sorceress's gradual build-up of risk-versus-reward is exciting, but frustrating in day-to-day play.

It's notable that one of the game's best careers - the Dwarf Engineer, a defensive rifleman who can build gun turrets - has no such overlaying system, succeeding on the ingenuity and variety of his abilities. Creating skills for 40 levels of play across 20 careers seems to have been too much for Mythic, and far too many of them are anonymous and indistinguishable variants on damage-over-time, or damage X plus debuff Y.

Past level 30, the skills can become something of a mish-mash, and there are limited specialisation options - the Mastery talent trees are basic, although equippable Tactics make up for this a little. But it's probably more important that each class is well-defined and functional, both solo and in a group, and that much is certainly true. The broad range of adaptable and fun-to-play healers who can handle themselves in combat is particularly welcome, and they seem popular with players so far - a definite plus on the battlefield.

The feel of Warhammer Online's combat worried us when we first played it early this year, and although it's made some strides since then, it still falls short of perfection. Skills now have plenty of punch, but the timing is off, especially in the laborious animations. It's easy to trigger skills too early or too late, and it does make the combat feel stodgier than it actually is. The Morale system, however - which rewards constant fighting with increasingly powerful super-skills - brings a terrific guts-or-glory savagery to prolonged battles, especially in large groups.

With so many classes to cater for, you'd think Mythic would make itemisation as flexible as possible - but no. Weapons and equipment are allotted on a purely per-career basis. It means each career has a very iconic look, but it does lead to a sameiness in appearance which is only partly remedied by the ability to equip trophies and dye your armour sets. This is not a game for individualists - you could argue that WAR's greatest pleasure lies in feeling like part of an army, rather than feeling like a great hero.

Although loot drops are pretty frequent and generous, you'll mostly be getting your new gear from Renown and Influence rewards. The former relates to your contribution to fighting other players in RVR, the latter to your contribution to Public Quests. They provide a satisfyingly steady stream of new equipment - almost too much so. You don't really lust after loot in Warhammer Online, when incremental upgrades are never more than an hour or two's play away.

'Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning' Screenshot 3

Best handlebar moustaches in gaming, 2008.

This has implications for the game's economy - it's hard to imagine player trading being a major part of Warhammer Online. That impression is reinforced by the game's perfunctory crafting professions, essentially a bunch of simple refine-and-combine mini-games that make consumables and trinkets and little else.

Tick feature box, make it as quick and painless as possible, move on. Warhammer Online has everything you expect from a modern MMO, but anything that might distract you from Mythic's mighty war effort, or from rapidly levelling your character, has been streamlined and curtailed and smoothed away.

This is by no means a bad thing - there's little downtime or fuss in WAR, and the game has a fast, linear, well-crafted and densely-packed flow that makes it highly compelling, and unusually rewarding if you have limited time to play. However, it does raise a question mark over Mythic's aim to make the ultimate, all-consuming hobby experience. While there's plenty going on, the variety, the silliness, the lazy luxury of wasting your time in a world you love, isn't really there.

Case in point: the linear structure of tiered zones, divided with systematic neatness into questing chapters and RVR war camps, leads you smartly through the levels without punishing travel times or backtracking. But with trainers and merchants in every encampment, and rally masters throwing new gear at you faster than you can equip it, why take time to visit the game's two extravagantly well-appointed capital cities, Altdorf and the Inevitable City? They're often quiet (at least in the early stages of a server's life; how they'll develop once city sieges kick in is an unknown at present). WAR lacks genuine social hubs; places you'll call home, hang out in, grow attached to.

'Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning' Screenshot 4

Silliest armour set in gaming, 2008 (runner-up).

Not that WAR's world isn't well-realised. The races have strong characterisation and the architecture, in particular, is stunning, almost every landscape having been littered with rampant Gothic constructions of staggering detail and size. Natural landscapes are a little less graphically impressive and more clichéd in style, with some puzzlingly complex layouts that make the route from A to B something that requires detours through J and Q. Zones are large and there are a respectable 27 of them, but their division into three separate lines - High Elves versus Dark Elves, Dwarfs versus Greenskins, Empire versus Chaos - dents the cohesion of the world somewhat.

But we're forgetting ourselves; we're forgetting those three letters, scribbled repetitively in blood on every loading screens. We're forgetting the WAR. Every barrier, every curtailment, everything that seems to limit your freedom and immersion is there for a very good reason: to relentlessly channel and focus players on the deadly serious business of beating each other, and everything else, to a pulp.

Disparate players, following the disparate threads of solo quests, find themselves thrown together in one of the game's hundreds of excellent Public Quests - the addictive, dynamic openworld scenarios that culminate in big boss fights and exciting fruit-machine loot drops. Opposing bands of players charging from spawn point to Public Quest (respawning on death is instant, and penalties are cheaply bought off, meaning you can use suicide as a travel short-cut) find their paths crossed, and battle ensues.

All hell breaks loose, all over the place. The culmination of this is seen on the final level 30-40 tier, where players naturally fall into Keep sieges and monumental scraps for control of key zones; we took part in one memorable massed battle for Praag, the central town in the final tier of the Empire versus Chaos line, the fulcrum of the ultimate struggle for control of Altdorf and the Inevitable City.

Keep sieges, intended to be the focus of Guild-on-Guild warfare, allow you to employ cheap, consumable siege engines, from boiling oil to battering rams, around their strategically-placed choke points. Incredibly, every single zone has its own instanced Scenario battleground, with a flawlessly simple queuing system that allows you to jump in at any point in play. They're based on simple game-ypes - capture the flag, base capture, tag - but with a splendid variety of tweaks and quirks of map design, and agreeably short-and-sweet play times. They're always busy, and rightly so; as good as WOW's handful of Battlegrounds are, this lavish banquet of PVP action shames them.

The openworld battlefield objectives seem less successful at gathering a critical mass of players behind them at the moment. Once a side has gained control of them, they're guarded by tough NPC opposition, which despite some tasty loot drops, tend to scare off the losing side. One of WAR's greatest strengths is how easy it is to get involved with other players without formally grouping with them - in Public Quests and RVR alike - but the downside is that the will to get organised when it's called for is a little lacking.

'Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning' Screenshot 5

Stuck together with spit. Orc spit has excellent adhesive qualities.

This, Mythic hopes, is where guilds will come in to play. It's offered every incentive, with a guild-levelling path that allows access to ever greater rewards, and the system of Standards that can be used as buffs in battle as well as decorative emblems. Social organisation is key to making a game like this work, and while it's still relatively untested, the very fact of its existence shows that Mythic knows exactly what it's doing here.

It's probably fair to say that there isn't a single massively multiplayer game out there that's better at throwing players together than WAR. But - and it's a pretty big but, this - the players have to be there in the first place. When they're not - because it's a quiet server, because it's an unsociable hour, because everybody's over on the Empire versus Chaos line - Warhammer Online has the life sucked out of it.

You can play it solo, or in a small group; WOW made that a base stipulation of the modern MMO, and WAR meets it to a fault. It's just not that much fun. It's hard to say what, if anything, is wrong with the questing, because it's painless and well-organised and grind-free and provides a steady stream of cash and XP and generally does what's needed. The Tome of Knowledge in-game encyclopaedia, and excellent map system, make it a breeze to keep track of your achievements and progress, and the Tome provides the satisfaction of constant unlocks and plenty of diverting nonsense besides.

Perhaps it's that the monster behaviours aren't all that sophisticated, or that their placement isn't just so, or that the humour and storytelling seem a bit forced. Perhaps it's that those watercooler quests, despite Mythic's evident and worthy efforts, aren't really there. Perhaps it's just that you know that the other things the game has to offer - Public Quests and Keep sieges and Scenarios - are that bit better. You can theoretically advance all the way through Warhammer Online without questing, and that amazing fact tends to dent your desire to quest.

'Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning' Screenshot 6

Iron like a Lion in, er, is that the Chaos Wastes?

Mythic has dutifully done everything it needs to to compete with Blizzard's jack of all trades and master of most. Crafting is weak, and dungeons - the small, instanced experiences that really cement the group dynamics in an MMO - are frustratingly rare, but aside from that WAR does it all, and does it well. That said, you can very easily tell which parts of this grand enterprise Mythic's heart was in, and those parts - RVR and Public Quests - are completely thrilling, and surprisingly accessible.

But they're also fragile. They're at the whim of an unpredictable player base and a hundred other factors besides. They're utterly dependent on en even balance between the two realms on each server - and at beta stage, there's a worrying bias towards Destruction on all servers. That means that, until it's been out in the wild a while, this extremely well-made and highly enjoyable MMO remains unproven. And it remains - until our first re-review, at least - one step short of true greatness.

8 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (207) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • jlassila #1 3 years ago

    Putting out a review of a MMO before it is even out?! Isn't that kind of insane. Especially when it is in doubt if the MMO will start at all next week in Europe, given the state of the open beta currently, account servers broken, email servers busted etc.

  • Hunam #2 3 years ago

    I'm also confused as to how it works too. Oh well, its a decent score (to some).

  • Stickman #3 3 years ago

    But what is it good for?

  • stevetuck #4 3 years ago

    They're utterly dependent on en even balance between the two realms on each server - and at beta stage, there's a worrying bias towards Destruction on all servers.

    This was obvious from the beginning every kid wants to be Chaos.. would have been the same with a 40k MMO but with Space Marines

    Still this open beta is surprisingly entertaining.. playing a Goblin Shaman was always my ambition lets hope they add dwarf slayers in an expansion :D

    [edit was for typo.. happy now? :p]
    Edited by 3 at 11/09/08 @ 17:53

  • Triggerhappytel #5 3 years ago

    Did this review break the internet? I couldn't access the site at all for ages.

    Anyway, good score, even though I don't play MMOs and don't do PC gaming.

  • redneon Verified Programmer, SUMO Digital #6 3 years ago

    @stevetuck:

    While you were editing for typo you could've at least corrected "would of" to "would have". ;)

  • Benno #7 3 years ago

    500 comments

    150 from Goal "omg game is shit no way 8/10 lol" posts

  • spimmy #8 3 years ago

    take the review with a pinch of salt eurogamer gave aoc 8/10 when first reviewed

  • George-Roper #9 3 years ago

    Score seems appropriate. Good game, overall, with some niggles that drop it from greatness.

    However, i'm confident that Mythic can address these, moving forward. Certainly, there's been nothing close to WAR, MMORPG wise, since WoW was released. That alone is good enough for me to move across to a fresh and new, yet solidly familiar, game.

    Gotta love those Warrior Priests! Hammer time!

  • Maximilian #10 3 years ago

    It's hardly too early to review it - in fact he points out it will be re-visited. The game is pretty much in a complete state as is. More of a gamma than a beta.

    A lot of people need/want to know what it's like before buying it. A guarded review but very positive. A bit like how I feel about it, having bad memories of AoC fresh in my mind.

  • spimmy #11 3 years ago

    mithic arent handleing europe goa are goa in mithis outher game used edit quests etc and delys with patchs

  • PlugMonkey #12 3 years ago

    Sounds good. I've never bothered with an MMO before, and having been a bit of a Warhammer fan in my youth, I think I might pick this up and give it a whirl.

    I haven't played a decent dwarf character in years. Warhammer dwarves are 10x cooler than dwarves in any other fantasy.

  • Chufty #13 3 years ago

    The Age of Conan review came a month after it was released, when they had time to see how horrendously broken and unfinished it was, and they still gave it an 8.

    MMOs seem to get away with cloning WOW (boxes ticked!) and then releasing them unifinished. Then they charge full price on top of a subscription fee while they finish it.

    Looks like more of the same to me, I'm afraid.

  • magicpanda #14 3 years ago

    Spot on review

  • mrchu #15 3 years ago

    I feel let down by EuroGamer, just like I'm about to let myself down with this horribly cliché metaphor; MMO's are like wine, they take time to mature and develop (that is, to snowball patches, gain players, establish an economy and most importantly; gain a communal identity).

    It's a fact which makes the ugly first review of an MMO all the more painful...so why on Earth has EG decided to stick another nail in the possible coffin by reviewing a BETA VERSION OF THE GAME?! Maybe I'm over-reacting here...8/10 is by no means a bad mark...but considering that 8/10 will now hang over the head of WAR until EG decide to re-review the game, it hardly seems fair...essentially potential buyers will be taking a beta score as benchmark for a retail game....a retail game which could surpass the negatives of the beta...A mere 7 additional days hold on the review could have seen the negatives mentioned in the review start to fade away, if not completely dissapear...possibly earning the game another mark and possibly earning the game a slightly larger customer base (the type that base purchases entirely on the reviews made by their favourite sites).

    I still hold EG in high regard as my #1 review site and home page, but I certainly hope the game is re-reviewed not long from now (so that it is a legitamate review of the product to be bought...not the product as it stands in beta).

    I actually agree with the review as the game stands - aside from the fact that I believe the 'Target is not Attackable' bug is quite catastrophic at the moment. I just don't agree with beta reviews being mixed in with retail reviews.

    Word.
    Edited by 1 at 11/09/08 @ 18:22

  • MightyMouse #16 3 years ago

    As good as halo then?

    (someone had to)

  • shamblemonkee #17 3 years ago

    Most of the concerns in this review aren't the sort an extra week will fix, they're the sort that months of play in the wild expose and focus dev attention on.

    Personally I feel it's 7/10 currently but agree for the most part with this (pre)review
    Edited by 1 at 11/09/08 @ 18:27

  • George-Roper #18 3 years ago

    @Chufty

    It's a shame that you feel this way, because from my hands-on experience in the last few days, i'd say its right up there. It won't be anywhere near WoW in terms of content, because Blizz have years worth of head-start on them, but in terms of reviewing whats there right now, it's in very good shape.

    Graphics, texture issues aside, are by and large very good. A great mixture of EQ2 and WoW. Stylistically, where I once thought WoW had that covered hands-down, WAR raises the bar again with fantastic housing, castles and the like, rendered beautifully and, unexpectedly, in an extremely great Z-axis way. Thats one thing where WoW went wrong. Castles and Keeps seemed very flat, whereas here, you need to actually pan up to see the parapets. The sense of scale is very well done.

    Yes, of course it borrows from WoW and the like. Just as it borrowed from EQ1 and just as that borrowed from Meridian 59. However, what it does it does extremely well.

    I consider myself to be a very jaded MMOPRG gamer. WoW has been 'it' for quite some time but, from my now informed perspective after playing in the Open Beta, WAR offers a good alternative. Good enough that I've binned my WoW account and have preordered this. I can't think of any better recommendation than when I choose to use my wallet.

  • Dizzy #19 3 years ago

    As a several month beta tester I would say this review is spot on. Good job. See you in WAR.

  • Gunzberg #20 3 years ago

    omg, here I am idly refreshing eurogamer at 7pm and i see a WAR review ?

    was downloading the beta but ran out of diskspace (with lotro and other stuff already installed on my small but fast 73 Gig Raptor 10k), so now I need to check the reviews rather than gameplay to see whether it's worth it

    *grabs sandwich and commences review dissection*

  • Amajiro #21 3 years ago

    WoW got 8/10 from EG too, and the review is very similar as well.

  • Venkman90 #22 3 years ago

    Aye, wow at launch and now are very different, considering this is a review of the beta 8/10 is no bad thing imho

  • anomagnus #23 3 years ago

    Hmmm, reviewing the game before its even out, and then downmarking it because the servers are quiet...

    i've said it before, i'm no longer happy with the reviewing policy of Eurogamer, it seems focused on being the first out there, rather than being interested in the game itself

    regardless, i'm loving the beta, its a 9/10 for me, and, if mythic handle themselves well, this time next year it will be a 10/10

  • hula hoops #24 3 years ago

    8/10? I guess it is as bad as AoC then.

  • ioryadragon #25 3 years ago

    lol even if you access to the closed beta for months, making a review while the game it in OB it kinda brave at least. You have enough traffic and members, dont go over the edge just because you can. And yeah you gave 8/10 to AOC after 1 month? You need a new editor for mmorpg games, tho this review scored some nice points, but it to early. I also loved how you gave 8/10 to Spore, you really love simple games eh?

  • danteire #26 3 years ago

    Was a good review, highlighted some of the good and bad points. And from my time in Open Beta Test, I love it. I was never a big RvR player (usually due to awful pings) but I jumped into a RvR area and was hooked. Can only hope the Keep and City sieges are as much fun.

    WAR has a great foundation of a game right now, give Mythic a few months to iron out bugs and bring some new stuff [4 missing classes please :) ] and it will be a genre classic.

  • Stickman #27 3 years ago

    I forgot why I didn't come into comment threads anymore.

    I remember now.

  • Lemming81 #28 3 years ago

    Why they gave Age of Conan a month's breathing space and not this I don't know, but WAR is a must buy for me anyway.


    8/10 SHOULD be a recommended in anyone's book.

  • FunkyRenegade #29 3 years ago

    Commenting on the server population in such an early review seems a little weak to me.
    Especially seeing as how there's nowhere near the population that there will be come launch, let alone without all the open beta issues.
    Besides that though, I very much agree with the review.
    For me, this game is what the MMO market needs, a true competitor to WoW.

  • JediMasterMalik #30 3 years ago

    Been playing the beta almost non-stop for the past few days, absolutely loving it, am probably going to be buying it. I just can't stop. The RVR is brilliant fun, and I even really like the PVE quests, but yeah, not many dungeons in this game. I used to be really scared to do any sort of PVP for some reason, but this makes it so easy and never really punishes you, I love it.

  • Gaol #31 3 years ago

    Buyer Beware.

    Eurogamer runs a one point scale for reviewing mmorpgs. From the very best (WoW, Guild Wars), through the fun but flawed (Tabula Rasa), through the distinctly average (WAR), even unto the abominable (Age of Conan)... all have received the same 8/10 score from this website.

    What's a pity is that the review touches on the most broken aspect of this game, namely the combat feel, but undersells the problem. WAR doesn't give the player enough feedback when moves are complete - combine this with jerky animations and effects/damage that lags well behind your button presses and the overall feeling is one of looseness, inaccuracy and frustration.

    When I hit an instant ability in WOW I get an immediate sound effect and a quick animation, followed by a large red number that tells me I'm being successful. Click one here and hope that you here the tiny noise from the UI, wait and watch your avatar produce a laborious animation, and then check the tiny red bar somewhere near the mob to have a look at the damage. Don't take too long though, cause the global cooldown is finishing and you need to start mashing. The combat gives you two choices - stare at the toolbar to get the GCD rhythm to maximise damage.. or else watch the action but end up mashing and hoping for the best.

    I'd also point out the world graphics in this game are awful. The biggest issue is the draw distance. The world is so dingy and dark, and this is further hindered by the fact you can't see more than 6ft in front of you. The reviewer must have a future build if he was able to actually see much of the architecture to compliment it. The overall effect of exploration in WAR is that of walking home from the pub drunk at 2am, scared to look anywhere else but the ground in front of you. The bits that you do make out are unispired and the engine feels creakier than the DX7 Warcraft one.

    The lore in this game is also badly implemented. You carry around a tome that fills up after you accomplish arbritrary things in game. Problem is, it's written about important NPCs and the history of the zone - the overall effect is 'what does this have to do with me?'. It leaves the player feeling rather alienated from what's going, and you'll probably ignore it after a short while, prefering just to grind in the incohesive world wherever you find yourself.

    Elsewhere, WAR copys it's inspiration in a perfunctory manner, showing little inspiration outside the public quests (a great idea admittedly). It's a functional clone. It's not quite as pretty, it sounds a lot worse (the music is terrible), and it doesn't work quite as smoothly. Kinda like the 'soggy seconds' version of WoW. But it's the David to Blizzard's Goliath so it will no doubt attract a legion of fanboy defenders somehow thinking they are less mainstream by subbing to it.

    My advice, wait till its in the bargain buckets, by which time this turd might be polished.

  • 4thVariety #32 3 years ago

    People are going to buy it, level to maximum and quit again. Happens to all MMOs these days. If you're the type of grinder to go beyond that, then there is that other place. Not that it's better, you can just brag in front of more people, which is the only goal.

  • butler` #33 3 years ago

    Eurogamer MMORPG reviews are indeed a joke historically (/slap Keiron) but WAR is a definite 8 or 9 on anyone's scale.

    Miss WoW's world PvP? Sick of PvP-in-a-can? Get this.

  • butler` #34 3 years ago

    I do kinda worry about the fact that you've fielded a review so early - especially with observations like:

    The feel of Warhammer Online's combat worried us when we first played it early this year, and although it's made some strides since then, it still falls short of perfection.

    When in the patch accompanying retail release they are addressing that "stodgy" feeling you describe.

  • berelain #35 3 years ago

    "I actually agree with the review as the game stands - aside from the fact that I believe the 'Target is not Attackable' bug is quite catastrophic at the moment. I just don't agree with beta reviews being mixed in with retail reviews. "

    I agree, although i'd mark the game down a little more for the iffy combat feel and lack of social aspects. Yes, its a battle-based game, but the Warhammer world is so full of character and story that they could have done a lot more with it. Much like with Age of Conan, it feels like the team here have done half a job of bringing the world to life, but they could have gone much, much further.

    Still, its fun, and I'll be playing it for a while at least. But I'll still be playing LOTRO alongside it. I need my storytelling and sense of achievement in games, not just mindless killing.

  • George-Roper #36 3 years ago

    @Gaol

    "Buyer Beware.

    Eurogamer runs a one point scale for reviewing mmorpgs. From the very best (WoW, Guild Wars), through the fun but flawed (Tabula Rasa), through the distinctly average (WAR), even unto the abominable (Age of Conan)... all have received the same 8/10 score from this website"

    So I guess my own impressions of the game, after actually having a go, are null and void because of EGs review? Do you need a tinfoil hat?


    "What's a pity is that the review touches on the most broken aspect of this game, namely the combat feel, but undersells the problem. WAR doesn't give the player enough feedback when moves are complete - combine this with jerky animations and effects/damage that lags well behind your button presses and the overall feeling is one of looseness, inaccuracy and frustration"

    All of which, if its that much of a problem, will be rectified as the game continues to be developed. Do not judge a MMORPG by its merits, purely from the release code perspective. We all know, understand and accept that MMORPGs develop and progress as they grow. Speaking from my experience so far, i've not encountered this particular 'quirk' of the gameplay but hey ho, it sounds like a REAL gamebreaker...


    "When I hit an instant ability in WOW I get an immediate sound effect and a quick animation, followed by a large red number that tells me I'm being successful. Click one here and hope that you here the tiny noise from the UI, wait and watch your avatar produce a laborious animation, and then check the tiny red bar somewhere near the mob to have a look at the damage. Don't take too long though, cause the global cooldown is finishing and you need to start mashing. The combat gives you two choices - stare at the toolbar to get the GCD rhythm to maximise damage.. or else watch the action but end up mashing and hoping for the best"

    Umm, if I click to attack I see that my Warrior Priest swings his weapon and, y'know, attack. Not really understanding what the problem is here, because you can absolutely break WoW down into exactly the same 'stare at the toolbar' approach, especially so if you're a healer. If youi can't adjust your gameplay between button staring and action staring, like every other MMORPG to date has also required, then i'd probably suggest you leave these kinds of games alone.


    "I'd also point out the world graphics in this game are awful. The biggest issue is the draw distance. The world is so dingy and dark, and this is further hindered by the fact you can't see more than 6ft in front of you. The reviewer must have a future build if he was able to actually see much of the architecture to compliment it. The overall effect of exploration in WAR is that of walking home from the pub drunk at 2am, scared to look anywhere else but the ground in front of you. The bits that you do make out are unispired and the engine feels creakier than the DX7 Warcraft one"

    Complete and absolute bollocks. The game engine is a wonderful mix of WoW and Everquest 2. Whilst the draw distance may not be as good as some might expect, it has not once even been something i've pondered in the game. If anything it actually contributes to an atmosphere of bleakness, especially from the Imperials perspective. Plus, this coming from someone who cites WoW as the goliath of MMORPGs, whos engine (whilst stylish) is appallingly basic. WAR is leagues ahead of WoW in this respect.


    "The lore in this game is also badly implemented. You carry around a tome that fills up after you accomplish arbritrary things in game. Problem is, it's written about important NPCs and the history of the zone - the overall effect is 'what does this have to do with me?'. It leaves the player feeling rather alienated from what's going, and you'll probably ignore it after a short while, prefering just to grind in the incohesive world wherever you find yourself"

    I'm not a massive Warhammer fan. I've got a little knowledge on the history but nowhere near enough to know everything thats going on. So far, my experience in-game (thus in Tome of Knowledge) has helped me understand the Imperial perspective and has also nicely introduced me to the creeping plagues being introduced to the farmlands by Chaos. Again, no problems whatsoever here and purely from a gameplay mechanic perspective, the Tome of Knowledge is a fantastic one-stop method of looking up everything you've done in the game. A gameplay mechanic that, I might add, you need to mod into existing MMORPGs. The fact that it updates as you progress, including a Bestiary, gives you a history of your progress which you can refer to at any time. To summarize, another pointless grudge.


    "Elsewhere, WAR copys it's inspiration in a perfunctory manner, showing little inspiration outside the public quests (a great idea admittedly). It's a functional clone. It's not quite as pretty, it sounds a lot worse (the music is terrible), and it doesn't work quite as smoothly. Kinda like the 'soggy seconds' version of WoW. But it's the David to Blizzard's Goliath so it will no doubt attract a legion of fanboy defenders somehow thinking they are less mainstream by subbing to it"

    Seriously, you need to get some perspective. WAR isn't even released yet and you're complaining it doesnt have all the spit and polish of a game thats been released for years?! Mythic will continue to build and develop all aspects of the game, just like other MMORPG developers have. If this is the quality of the game before its even been released, God only knows how it will improve from this point. I can see it going from strength to strength over the next 6 months. Additionally, whilst you lambast players for enjoying it you seem to be oblivious to the fact that we, the subscribers, can play more than one game or enjoy more than one game. For me, WoW has hit the limit of enjoyment. I've done both Horde and Alliance, hit 70 with multiple characters, got complete sets of PVP gear and have partaken in many Raids. I've had my fill. That's not to say that WoW is a poor game, just that i've hit the limit and until WotLK is out, there's no point me continuing. WAR has the potential to not only tide me over until WotLK but to even overtake WoW as my game of choice.


    "My advice, wait till its in the bargain buckets, by which time this turd might be polished"

    My advice, ignore this twat who blatantly has something against Mythic/WAR, as can be seen by what amounts to a crusade against the game, with poorly presented issues and fundamental inconsistencies in his arguments.

  • Tyedyed #37 3 years ago

    "From the very best (WoW, Guild Wars)"

    Stopped reading right here as you obviously dont know what your talking about.

    If you like PVP then WAR is the best game on the market.

  • Pulsar_t #38 3 years ago

    @Stickman
    Absolutely nothing
    Uh-huh

    But I see your point :)

  • Gaol #39 3 years ago

    "So I guess my own impressions of the game, after actually having a go, are null and void because of EGs review? Do you need a tinfoil hat? "

    My post wasn't aimed exclusively at you George, that was a dig at EG's previous history with mmorpg reviews.

    "Do not judge a MMORPG by its merits, purely from the release code perspective"

    Actually I'll do exactly that, I'm being asked to pay NOW, so I will comment on the game in it's current state. I have a great idea for a noughts and crosses mmorpg, care to give me £8.99 a month towards development? Thought not.

    "Umm, if I click to attack I see that my Warrior Priest swings his weapon and, y'know, attack. Not really understanding what the problem is here"

    It's the speed of the attack animation, combined with the global cooldown, combined with the lack of strong/loud/vivid feedback effects. It basically makes the game feel unresponsive, even though the abilities are probably working fine, which encourages button mashing.

    "The game engine is a wonderful mix of WoW and Everquest 2"

    Everquest 2 had probably the worst graphics engine in PC gaming history, being built to take advantage of increasing speeds on single processors that never materialised; as well as some of the worst art direction ever. Of course we'll never agree on artistic merit, it's purely subjective. I'm right though.

    "the Tome of Knowledge is a fantastic one-stop method of looking up everything you've done in the game"

    If you actually read the background stuff it doesn't collect your own accomplishments, but just has a load of lore that could have been copied and pasted from a Warhammer rulebook. The title/accomplishments/quests are just the same trackers that previous mmorpgs have, shoehorned into the same area. It's cumbersome and dull.

    "WAR isn't even released yet and you're complaining it doesnt have all the spit and polish of a game thats been released for years?! "

    Yes, they both cost £8.99 per month.

    "I've done both Horde and Alliance, hit 70 with multiple characters, got complete sets of PVP gear and have partaken in many Raids. I've had my fill."

    You did better than me then, I admire WoW but the endgame is too time consuming for normal folks.

    "ignore this twat"

    It's been a pleasure George, please come again.

  • Nikalai88 #40 3 years ago

    The biggest problem for me is that the classes, the combat and the loot are not as fun as in WoW. But now I will try the dwarf class to see how it works.

    On the combat its not the 'feel' of it that bothers me. Its the;
    -Button spam, I spent more time watching the cooldown than the combat
    -Boring abilities, EG got it right they are not unique and just not as fun or as creative.
    -Group play, in WoW when I am in a group everything changes, in WAR (so far) it really doesn't. In WoW when grouping I find that generally I use more skills and must pay more attention, in WAR its kind of the opposite.
    Edited by 1 at 11/09/08 @ 22:43

  • George-Roper #41 3 years ago

    @Gaol

    "So I guess my own impressions of the game, after actually having a go, are null and void because of EGs review? Do you need a tinfoil hat? "
    My post wasn't aimed exclusively at you George, that was a dig at EG's previous history with mmorpg reviews"

    I realise this but your original post came across as 'Fuck you all, I know whats good and WAR isnt good, its shit' which is completely and utterly wrong. As I believe and as EG believes, even when basing a review off a pre-release, Beta, version of the game.


    "Do not judge a MMORPG by its merits, purely from the release code perspective"
    Actually I'll do exactly that, I'm being asked to pay NOW, so I will comment on the game in it's current state. I have a great idea for a noughts and crosses mmorpg, care to give me £8.99 a month towards development? Thought not"

    Erm, you do realise that on release, WoW had less features than WAR has right now? So by that approach, what youre saying is that like for like, WAR actually comes out better than WoW? And no, your game sounds crap. Its based on a simple premise that has no method of improvement, whereas WAR is based on a complex premise of game mechanics and absolutely has potential to grow and expand into even better things.


    "Umm, if I click to attack I see that my Warrior Priest swings his weapon and, y'know, attack. Not really understanding what the problem is here"
    It's the speed of the attack animation, combined with the global cooldown, combined with the lack of strong/loud/vivid feedback effects. It basically makes the game feel unresponsive, even though the abilities are probably working fine, which encourages button mashing"

    Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I click 'Bludgeon' and my Warrior Priest swings his great 2h hammer and fucking bludgeons the mob, replete with crunching noise and effects. If this is so much of an issue, as youre making out, i'd think that Mythic will address it. As someone has also pointed out on this thread, theres a patch due out tomorrow that addresses a lot of issues in the game, which this reviewer won't have appreciated.


    "The game engine is a wonderful mix of WoW and Everquest 2"
    Everquest 2 had probably the worst graphics engine in PC gaming history, being built to take advantage of increasing speeds on single processors that never materialised; as well as some of the worst art direction ever. Of course we'll never agree on artistic merit, it's purely subjective. I'm right though"

    You must be joking?! Even now, EQ2 has one of the best, scalable, engines in the MMORPG market, which ive been able to experience on max settings (inc environmental shadows) for well over 6 months. Artistic style aside, of course. My advice? Get a new PC and stop convincing yourself that a P60 can still cut the mustard. I run WAR on max settings and it looks fucking gorgeous.


    "the Tome of Knowledge is a fantastic one-stop method of looking up everything you've done in the game"
    If you actually read the background stuff it doesn't collect your own accomplishments, but just has a load of lore that could have been copied and pasted from a Warhammer rulebook. The title/accomplishments/quests are just the same trackers that previous mmorpgs have, shoehorned into the same area. It's cumbersome and dull.

    Why are you making out that a feature not even included in most (if not all) other MMORPGs is a bad thing? I think its fantastic that I can browse even just through the Bestiary and see what creatures ive encountered, so far. Seriously, how is having this in there worse than not having it? /2 WTB some logic for Gaol!


    "WAR isn't even released yet and you're complaining it doesnt have all the spit and polish of a game thats been released for years?! "
    Yes, they both cost £8.99 per month.

    They do, this is true, but as MMORPG enthusiasts we all know and appreciate that they grow and get better with age. I'm sorry but for all your slagging off of the product, you should know this and understand how that fact fundamentally changes things. It comes down to this. Do I enjoy the game and is it worth 8.99/month? For me, WoW did but doesnt any longer. WAR absolutely now does.


    "ignore this twat"
    It's been a pleasure George, please come again"

    I just did, on your WoW Nightelfs face! Ye heard me!

  • Gaol #42 3 years ago

    "your original post came across as 'Fuck you all, I know whats good and WAR isnt good, its shit' "

    Hehe I shoulda just posted that for comedy, that would've been ace. I don't think its shit by a long shot, just mediocre and badly needing tightened up in certain areas.

    "WAR is based on a complex premise of game mechanics"

    What the fuck does that even mean?

    "EQ2 has one of the best, scalable, engines in the MMORPG market"

    Ehm no, it's heavily cpu dependant and only addresses one core; that's a whole other issue.

    "Get a new PC and stop convincing yourself that a P60 can still cut the mustard"

    I have that accusation thrown every time I criticize an mmorpg. I run a WAR on max with a great frame rate (640mb 8800gts) and it still looks shit for the most part.

    "Why are you making out that a feature not even included in most (if not all) other MMORPGs is a bad thing?"

    I want to play a game, not read a book. I'd prefer the devs to build the content and story directly into the player experience rather than append it on in a book. LoTRO does this well. I accept it's not WAR's main selling point though.

    "as MMORPG enthusiasts we all know and appreciate that they grow and get better with age"

    You never played SWG...

    "Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree."

    No shit.
    Edited by 1 at 11/09/08 @ 23:42

  • butler` #43 3 years ago

    Can I just add: the graphics allegedly aren't as they are going to be in retail. Certainly not with regards to customisability.

    Also, pretty much every observation you've made is null Gaol. Back to WoW, where you can get all the 'feedback' you like from your attacks...

  • George-Roper #44 3 years ago

    @Gaol

    "your original post came across as 'Fuck you all, I know whats good and WAR isnt good, its shit' "
    Hehe I shoulda just posted that for comedy, that would've been ace. I don't think its shit by a long shot, just mediocre and badly needing tightened up in certain areas.

    Why would that have been 'ace'? Congrats, you've just made everyone aware of what your actual agenda is. Now progress further onto why you have some kind of hatred for Mythic and we'll finally get to the bottom of why you have this crusade going.


    "WAR is based on a complex premise of game mechanics"
    What the fuck does that even mean?

    No need to be pedantic, mate. Just because I blew your 'noughts and crosses' MMORPG analogy out of the water. To be clear, however, I will absolutely support any developer who has a good release like WAR, about to go retail. I've got no issue giving them 3-6 paid months to turn major problems around, providing the vanilla release is in good shape. As WAR absolutely is. Its games like Vanguard that deserve our hatred, purely because SOE wont invest in development even when continuing to charge the same amount per month.


    "EQ2 has one of the best, scalable, engines in the MMORPG market"
    Ehm no, it's heavily cpu dependant and only addresses one core; that's a whole other issue"

    Then I guess my PC and my eyes are misreporting what i'm seeing, because single core or not (whatever thats got to do with it) EQ2 does have one of the most scalable and detailed engines of any MMORPG to date. Fact, whether you like it or not.
    And anyway, my point about WAR being like a WoW/EQ2 mix was purely down to aspects of each of those games that make them stand out. WAR has WoW-like style and flavor with EQ2s more detailed aspects, in terms of character and mob models.


    "Get a new PC and stop convincing yourself that a P60 can still cut the mustard"
    I have that accusation thrown every time I criticize an mmorpg. I run a WAR on max with a great frame rate (640mb 8800gts) and it still looks shit for the most part"

    Suureee, you do. I have LOTS of screenshots that render this statement completely null and void, as do comments by workmates who've seen them. You are very bitter at something to do with Mythic/WAR and I wish you'd just let everyone in on it, so we can see what your actual beef is.


    "Why are you making out that a feature not even included in most (if not all) other MMORPGs is a bad thing?"
    I want to play a game, not read a book. I'd prefer the devs to build the content and story directly into the player experience rather than append it on in a book. LoTRO does this well. I accept it's not WAR's main selling point though"

    Then don't fucking read it! Seriously, if this is what you call a 'major gripe' with a game that not even properly released yet, you have serious issues.


    "Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree."
    No shit"

    And so teh internets continues. Opinions and arseholes, etc.

  • dudefella #45 3 years ago

    Doesn't read like a game I'd like very much, certainly not for a long stretch of time. I'm more of a PvE guy. Plus I'm too heavily invested in WoW and its lore (yes, lorenerd) to play this. Also, Age of Conan pretty much made me never want to play a launch MMO ever again.

  • Gaol #46 3 years ago

    More WoW? No thanks, 3 months was enough. It was a bloody good 3 months though.

  • George-Roper #47 3 years ago

    @dudefella

    "Doesn't read like a game I'd like very much, certainly not for a long stretch of time. I'm more of a PvE guy. Plus I'm too heavily invested in WoW and its lore (yes, lorenerd) to play this. Also, Age of Conan pretty much made me never want to play a launch MMO ever again"

    Well, from what i've seen so far, PvE runs completely alongside the PvP aspects of the game. I levelled to 13 purely on PvE quests, which was just as entertaining as WoW, with some wonderful quest dialogue.

    In terms of Lore, the Warhammer universe blows the Warcraft universe out of the water by a massive margin. Warhammer was up and running in tabletop RPG form long before the Warcraft RTS games were even released. There are masses of literature and novels available and even from my limited exposure, its clear that WoW leeched from the Warhammer universe, from the offset. You have to remember, Warcraft lore expanded from the games, whereas Warhammer lore was introduced via a long established universe. Ultimately, Warhammer has the potential to grow and grow based on this, whereas you'll see things stuffed into Warcraft as and when it suits the purposes of the game.

    All IMO, of course. Apart from the established Warhammer universe, where there's no argument whatsoever.

  • kjhasdfjkhk #48 3 years ago

    This review is pointless. Most of the gripes are based on underpopulation. Gee I wonder why it's underpopulated, maybe because the game isn't even OUT YET?!

    As for the annoying but inevitable WoW comparisons, this game both looks and sounds so much better. The weapon sounds and the grunts and yells blow WoW out of the water and the graphics are beyond anything in WoW, understandably so, and from the sounds of it they will be adding high res textures for release. No point in putting them in a beta you have to download and will only be playing for a couple weeks. The character design is incredible by comparison, I went back and looked at WoW after this and it looks like a joke. The armor design is so much better as well. Warrior priests actually wear real armor compared to WoW's banana paladins or crystals glued to a power ranger suit gear. The dye system is very cool.

    Guilds will thrive and this game and everything will be so much better for it. Obviously no one is going to put in time to organize a guild or much organization into anything right now because again, this is BETA. These characters will be wiped in a week, what's the point? Everyone is just jumping in, messing around and having fun testing things out.

    The class mechanics are awesome. Healers being rewarded for doing damage? What other game has that? Good players will find the ins and outs of their classes and will develop a lot of unique play styles. I don't think it's fair to say they are not unique enough.

    This game takes the bullshit out of MMOs that are only put in to waste your time so you'll end up paying more money in the long run. Having a 2 minute downtime to sit and drink after every single mob, yawn. Grinding in general, yawn. You can get extra exp from rvr, so what's the point of grinding? Even if you do want to grind, you can grind public quests for influence and loot. No more standing around for 4 hours looking for a group for a 10 minute quest that just can't be soloed. In WoW I got so sick of raiding...spending hours getting 40 people together, always having a couple never show up on time, having to spend another hour waiting for everyone to get their shit together, get in the instance and buff then practice killing the same boss day after day, week after week, yawn. Glad there's so much loot from rvr. Rvr actually matters in this game and sieges will be epic. This game points out all the things WoW does wrong. The craft grinding, don't even get me started.

    Only things I wished were improved in this game, which I'm sure will be, are bug fixes, more PvE content (more small instances rather than huge annoying sucky raids) and some more fun crafting professions. Other than that this is by far the largest and most complete MMO at launch. My only concern is that there might be too much loot and high level loot will be too easy to obtain, but we'll see how that goes. Would have given this game a 9/10 personally. Don't let this review turn you off, this game like all MMOs needs some time to mature.

  • foamy #49 3 years ago

    Playing beta. Fucking great.

    But damn, i hate the "Target is not Attackable" bug.

  • hula hoops #50 3 years ago

    Doesn't read like a game I'd like very much, certainly not for a long stretch of time. I'm more of a PvE guy. Plus I'm too heavily invested in WoW and its lore (yes, lorenerd) to play this. Also, Age of Conan pretty much made me never want to play a launch MMO ever again.

    Exactly how I feel.

    I do however grateful that EG reviewed this game now rather than later. It saves me money and gives me a pieceful mind for not thinking I am missing a great game.

  • Darkjinxter #51 3 years ago

    Reviewers of MMOs must learn to refrain from speculating that if an MMO is content-lite at launch it deserves time to mature and no doubt future content will improve the gameplay.
    They seem to forget that Blizzard shipped WoW with content aplenty for all levels.
    Scholomance and Strathholme were there from day one, just waiting for players to reach high 50s and check them out.
    Everyhing in-between was also there waiting for the players to gain the experience to tackle them.

    Don't let these devs pull the wool over your eyes with low level content and a cursory high level dungeon with nought in between. Make them work hard for their 8/10

  • magicpanda #52 3 years ago

    "But damn, i hate the "Target is not Attackable" bug. "

    This worries me. Anyone that was in closed beta was this happening a lot before or is this a recent bug?

    At the moment there are entire Public quests rendered unplayable by this. Vertical aggro and mob line of sight is a problem.

    I was a with a small group doing a PQ where you have to fight you way up a Belltower and the mobs where aggroing from 2 floors above us and below us, some were even coming up through the floors. It was absolutely mental.

  • magicpanda #53 3 years ago

    Ahh seems they have tried to fix this in the patch this morning. Will see in an hour or 2
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 09:13

  • dingo75 #54 3 years ago

    My biggest gripe is with the fact that unless you have a balanced Chaos - Order population RvR will be painful for one side (the one that has less members).
    If I would play WAR I would play Chaos of course as a lot of other people appearantly already do / will do.

    Faction imbalance was / is an issue in WoW and was only partly solved with the introduction of "Blood Elves" as a "sexy" race in the last expansion.
    It's no fun to be steamrolled as Horde on a server with 4:1 or worse on Ally.
    No idea how Mythic wants to address this.

  • cosmosdk #55 3 years ago

    Reviewing a beta? Hardly a credible thing to do - shame on you, EG.

  • qoobah #56 3 years ago

    A review of a beta, BEFORE the last pre-launch patch? Fucking awsome Eurogamer, keep up the great work :|

    Oh and don't mind Gaol, he's clearly on a personal crusade against this game. "Although I'm right" et all, I'm sure he knows better than thousands of players that are enjoying the game now.

    edit: spleing
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 09:25

  • muftak #57 3 years ago

    after playing open beta for 2 days ive pre ordered this bad boy , for me the areas are amazing so much to look at and do oh and the public quests are for me one of the best MMo ideas there has been in a very long time.

    ill be glad to get away from wow that game for me has destroyed the whole idea of a MMO , you should never be able to solo it should all go back to the EQ days whrere grouping all the time is a must for a fun and socail experiance for all.

    im not slating wow as the game is technical good but its way to easy to get to the top and theres no fear in dying like EQ where dying would cost you hours of play time.

    "My biggest gripe is with the fact that unless you have a balanced Chaos - Order population RvR will be painful for one side (the one that has less members).
    If I would play WAR I would play Chaos of course as a lot of other people appearantly already do / will do. "

    not to much of a problem seeing there is pop limits for servers for which side you go on .

  • Oli Verified Reviews Editor, Eurogamer.net #58 3 years ago

    Regarding the timing of the review - I admit it, we're still trying to figure out the best way of handling this with MMOs. And to some extent you have to do it on a case-by-case basis: the relatively finished state of the WAR beta meant that both we, and the game's PRs, were happy to run a review now.

    In retrospect, I felt that giving Age of Conan a few weeks didn't really advance our opinion past what we could have (in fact did, just with no score) say about it at launch. In which case, you've got two options: wait something like three months before publishing any review at all; or offer readers a review at launch to help them make the decision to buy.

    I think three months is just too long to go without expressing an opinion on such an important game. Happily, our re-review system means we can come back to it in a while anyway, and see how it's getting on.

    I also have to point out that "most of my complaints" aren't solely related to server population. If you read the review, you'll see I have some issues with crafting, class design, combat, loot and more. It's a terrific game though, and I'd encourage anyone to try it at launch.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 09:37

  • Gunzberg #59 3 years ago

    @ Gaol

    I love your reviews (Age of Conan and this one)- please keep them up and ignore those that try to bring your comments down

    Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions and yours bring some balance to the overly hyped ones of reviewers and other beta testers

  • rudedudejude #60 3 years ago

    its a beta TEST.

    lol love eveyone reviewing and commenting, hella cool.

    rofl.

  • cosmosdk #61 3 years ago

    Oli >

    Why on earth do you care about the game's PRs? Do they have a big, bad whip or something? Isn't this about your readers? Or is it all about the profits you get from the text-clicks? I am sorry, but as a games journalist myself (representing the biggest games mag in Scandinavia, both in print and online) I just think that this is complete suicide. I've always read EG's reviews and thought "these guys are good" - but your credibility (reviewing a BETA of a MMO) just went waaay down for me. This is a serious matter.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 09:43

  • rudedudejude #62 3 years ago

    ALL the bugs, moans, nags are completly pointless as you have NO IDEA what will be fixed/addressed/changed in the retail.

    Waste of a review tbh, re-review it again in 2-3 weeks.

  • IronCladChicken #63 3 years ago

    Everyone seems very angry today - The WAR fans for the game not getting a 10/10 The WoW fans for the game not getting as 5/10
    Theres only one way to fix this - prostitutes for everyone!

  • IronCladChicken #64 3 years ago

    @muftak
    "ill be glad to get away from wow that game for me has destroyed the whole idea of a MMO , you should never be able to solo it should all go back to the EQ days whrere grouping all the time is a must for a fun and socail experiance for all. "

    You could solo in Ultima Online - which predates EQ by about a year.
    You could solo in MUDS - I used to play a lot back in the early ninties.

    MMORPG's wern't ment to be purely for group playing sessions - Thats what deathmatch games are for - They were supposed to allow gaming in a dynamic open adaptive world with other 'real' people. Y'know like playing a RPG but with lots of other people there as well. It should be fun in a team and fun solo - I play both styles with WoW at the moment (maybe with WAR if they release a demo/free play offer)

  • Sneti_Joker #65 3 years ago

    Yet again: how the hell can you *review* an online MMORPG a week before the official release? This is becoming a standard joke. What you're basically saying is "We don't give a shit what people think or what we cause by these texts as long as we get the clicks." Rather horrifying.

  • anomagnus #66 3 years ago

    look, i wont get into personal attacks, but i am saying right now, i dont think Goal has played the game, and if he has, he hasnt played it recently.

    His arguements have been disected as is, one comment stands out 'you can't see more than 6ft in front of you'

    total fucking bullshit, draw distances arent WoW like, but at the same team, at least there's SOMETHING in the zone. Go to Mulgore, or the barrens, two of the largest flat zones, and you'll see empty lifeless zones, with fuck all squared happening.

    As for combat, heres another myth shattered for you WAR haters. The GCD in WoW is 1.5 seconds. The GCD in WAR is 1.4 seconds.

    Combat is quicker, the problem is you need a system like WoW that tells you, IN MINUTE detail everything thats happening.

    Anyway, rant over about goal and haters.

    On to EG and beyond.

    edited cause i feel bad after reading oli's post! i'm such a chicken shit

    This game is a 9/10 at beta. i simply cannot wait to see what the game will be like after a 12 month patch cycle.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 10:17

  • Oli Verified Reviews Editor, Eurogamer.net #67 3 years ago

    cosmosdk - As you'll know if you're a journalist, PRs control when you can review a game by lifting a review embargo. That's all I meant by that comment - Warhammer's PRs *allowed* the game to be reviewed from beta.

    You should also know that magazines review from beta regularly, because of the lead times involved in print.

    As I said, I wouldn't always be happy doing this, but in Warhammer's case I was. I've made allowances for how I predict the game will develop in the next couple of weeks, and I'm confident that all of my judgements will hold true for the release version of the game.

  • cosmosdk #68 3 years ago

    Oli >

    So EA let you review the BETA of Mythic's game (I doubt Mythic would), and now you get 10x as many clicks and thus 10x as much profit from this review, yeah? What about your credibility?

    I know that you, as an editor, probably had no saying what so ever about this matter, and that your bosses up high in the EG hierachy more than likely ordered you to do this review. The games press business is in a sad, sad state - seen this happening too many times lately.

    I understand the dillemma. If you wait - say 1 month - you will have close to no interest in your review, BUT your credibility remains, and your respect grows. If you review the game on launch day (or a week prior) you will get an insane amount of clicks, but you will lose your credibility. It's like one of those morale choices in a Bioware-game, isn't it?

    So, journalism or dinero?
    Edited by 4 at 12/09/08 @ 10:29

  • gmmonkey #69 3 years ago

    If this is good as AOC (8/10), I'm not interested.

  • anomagnus #70 3 years ago

    well, i'm still posting here, cuas ei just want to re-iterate, this game is amazing

    sat down last night at 6, turned round and it was 11!

    got into some excellent PQ's met some great people, and got myself a great blue drop!

    all round, a great night!

  • Gaol #71 3 years ago

    Although I think the EG reviewer was a bit generous, I'm surprised at the attacks on EG for getting this review out a week early. The forthcoming patch has been detailed and its barely going to change the finished product between now and release. The reviewer has also pointed out several flaws that aren't readily apparent unless the game has been played extensively (eg. itemisation)- I'd rather take the views of someone who has played the game extensively for months and is aware of how quickly/slowly Mythic are changing things. Other reviewers will probably play for a bit at retail and base opinions on much shorter play times.

    @anomagnus

    I'm exaggerating for effect, but the fact remains you can't see shit during night cycles in this game. The Chaos and Greenskin zones are especially bad, and it sucks any character or sense of place out of the game.

  • Slim #72 3 years ago

    Everyone looks the same. Mythic made the same error with Daoc. People in MMO's like WoW enjoy swanning around showing off the lovely gear they've worked hard for, you can't do that in a Mythic game. Dying something does not make up for the fact that it's not impressive to look at.

    Otherwise, my predictable throught from the beta was: this is WoW with daoc's pvp system. Big deal. Why would you bother?

    Oh and GOA suck balls, that's a good reason to knock points off.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 10:36

  • Rizo #73 3 years ago

    For the Horde

    Just cancelled my pre-order from play.

    Back to leveling my Druid Alt

    Come on guys this game is another LOTR at best back to WOW!

  • hula hoops #74 3 years ago

    In contrast to what cosmosdk had said, I am very grateful that EG released this review early.

    In the last MMO release, EG review was weeks after the game release which forces me to try the game by myself. That costs me not only money but personal dissatisfaction of having to play a game which I had waited for a long time which turned out to be poo.

    Thanks EG.

    PS. Don't worry about cosmosdk. I believe he is just angry that you just stole thunder from his upcoming review ... which is coming years after release to ensure 'correct and proper' representation of the game.

  • Wickerman #75 3 years ago

    @ Slim - I understand the desire to craft an individual and cool look for a character, but I don't think holding up WoW as an example of how to do it is the right way to go. All the characters I've ever played spent the majority of their lives looking like they'd bought their armour piecemeal from Oxfam over the course of a couple of months and looked anything but cool until they managed to grab pieces of whatever the latest class set to wear was, at which point they looked the same as everyone else who was after the same set!

    Doesn't excuse WAR of course if they've fallen into the same rut (or worse, if peoples comments are to be believed) - I've yet to play an MMO that didn't have me looking like the village hobo after an hour or so play...

  • Rizo #76 3 years ago

    For the Horde

    Just cancelled my pre-order from play.

    Back to leveling my Druid Alt

    Come on guys this game is another LOTR at best back to WOW!

  • Slim #77 3 years ago

    Wickerman, you've missed my point. It doesn't matter a jot what you look like, what matters is that your gear is recognisable. There's no point having a hard earned Staff of Uber Pooning if it looks the same as every other staff, because you can't swan around outside banks showing the damn thing off.

    These games are all about giving people a sense of achievement, and a big part of that is making other people know how much you've achieved. I didn't get that at all from DAOC, because all the gear looked identical and you just coloured it anyway.

    And GoA still suck balls :)

  • muftak #78 3 years ago

    "You could solo in Ultima Online - which predates EQ by about a year. "

    UO isnt in my eyes the same sort of game really , UO is more akin to animal crossing all about collecting stuff dont get me wrong loved UO because you didnt have to kill all the time , also there wasnt the group mechanics like EQ personally it was abit stupid to compare EQ with UO .

    if you got a pure killing game style like EQ/EQ2/WoW/WaR it should be pue grouping it should be about adventures with friends not just a game where you can solo that runs no risks or a game that dosnt force you to group ,sure have a solo game up to 20 then make it really hard to lvl after.

    just my 2 cents

  • Oli Verified Reviews Editor, Eurogamer.net #79 3 years ago

    cosmosdk - No, as Eurogamer's MMO editor, the decision on when to run the review was mine alone.

    As I said, I did wait one month before publishing a review of Age of Conan - and in fact, it got plenty of clicks. But I didn't feel it was a much better or more accurate review than we could have published at launch. So I decided to do it differently this time.

    I might agree with you if this was the only review of WAR that EG will ever publish, but our re-review system for MMOs means that we reflect how they change over time. No MMO review score is set in stone, nor should it be; there is no such thing as a "right time" to review an MMO.

    That being the case, if you can give an honest opinion on a game's design based on many, many hours of play, and a good enough understanding of MMOs to predict how the experience will change when it launches, why wouldn't you?

    I'm very sorry if you and others feel this review has damaged Eurogamer's credibility - that certainly wasn't my intention. I'd only ask that you play the game at launch and see if you think the review is inaccurate then.

  • Wickerman #80 3 years ago

    @ Slim - ah, my bad. Yeah, point missed entirely - this is what I get for posting without sufficient caffeine... I can see how that would irk a lot of people that have put a lot of time into acquiring a item!

  • kjhasdfjkhk #81 3 years ago

    You have a right to write your opinions but this should have been your impressions of the game before launch, not a review. Scores make people angry. Then again, the word "review" probably got you a lot more clicks than the word "impressions" would have. Quite a dilemma.

  • slivir #82 3 years ago

    Theres only one way to fix this - prostitutes for everyone!

    I'm with IronCladChicken on this one!

  • kjhasdfjkhk #83 3 years ago

    So you'd rather get myriad sexual diseases than play this game? I'm confused...

  • cosmosdk #84 3 years ago

    Oli >

    Sure magazines review non-final builds of games, but this is a online site, you don't have a deadline for print etc., whereas we sometimes have to deliver a text 3 weeks prior to the actual magazine deadline. Also, some of the builds we review for the mag. are only unfinished in terms of bugs etc., never content-wise. Which brings me to my next point. The current WAR-build, content-wise, does not represent the final product. I understand that you probably have also been playing the closed beta (as have I), but basing a review on some toons that you will never be attached to (it is beta, after all) is just vague. I am not the slightest bit attached to my rank 11 warrior priest, nor was I attached to any of my 20 lvl 31 templated toons from the closed beta. And that is a problem, because you will never immerse yourself fully when playing a beta. Never.

    As some of your readers point out, simply posting the review as a hands-on impression (without a number at the end) would have been the smartest move. I partially respect your decision, and EG is / was THE international site for me, in terms of reviews. Not just because of KG bringing NGJ to the masses, but because your reviews have always been spot on. This one is not, because it is a review of a MMORPG BETA.

    Gamereactor posted my beta hands-on yesterday, and when we do betatests we use a 'thermometer' special scale. Have a look @ http://ga mereactor.dk/previews/70878/War... - just scroll to the bottom.

    PS: Sorry for all the edits - I'm not english, but I dislike not spelling correctly ;)
    Edited by 4 at 12/09/08 @ 11:36

  • George-Roper #85 3 years ago

    @Slim

    "Wickerman, you've missed my point. It doesn't matter a jot what you look like, what matters is that your gear is recognisable. There's no point having a hard earned Staff of Uber Pooning if it looks the same as every other staff, because you can't swan around outside banks showing the damn thing off"

    How many unique pieces of gear were there in WoW, at launch? As Wickerman points out, even now, pre-60 and 70 everyone looks like some manic Opal Fruit coloured monster. Like some kind of freakish scarecrow. Its only until you get to the sets of gear that you even begin to start looking 'cool' and even then, you look exactly the same as every other player who also has those sets. At least WAR allows you to dye the gear, to add another level of differentiation to the mix. Gear aside, you'll also have achievements and titles in WAR, so for those for whom gear isn't that important (for e-peen purposes), they'll have a set of titles to display that they can choose to show off, potentially, even more. "Hardbastard, Right Hand of Sigmar" potentially implies a shedload more than a power-ranger helmet...


    "These games are all about giving people a sense of achievement, and a big part of that is making other people know how much you've achieved. I didn't get that at all from DAOC, because all the gear looked identical and you just coloured it anyway"

    Sense of achievement isn't always about 'looking cool'. Seriously, you're coming across as a proper WoW-kiddie at the moment and whilst i can appreciate your perspective, to a degree, its just not that much of a problem. WAR isnt WoW and thank fuck for it. WAR approaches the 'look' of characters in a much more realistic and original manner than WoW ever did. Armour being worn looks like armour and is faithful to the Warhammer universe. Personally, I can't wait to get the armour pieces for my Warrior Priest that completes his 'look', as you can see they have in the RPG (the under chin armour). That will be the point where, I hope, everyone who see's me will know i've 'made it'. I don't want neon shoulders. I want stuff that looks like a great mix of fantasty and historical, which Warhammer is ALL about.


    "And GoA still suck balls :)"

    They absolutely do!

  • Dizz #86 3 years ago

    Good review. Biggest problem for me: the combat feels clunky and cumbersome (even with cooldowns equal or lower to WoW and whatnot). The combat mechanics in WoW just feel 'frantic' and fun...I can't explain it very well.

    Pluspoints? The public quests are awesome (and I find people actually WILLING to group up a lot more in this game because of it...perhaps it's the server I play on), and the RvR is very well done, much better than that other game you might've heard about. With a more flowing feel to the combat mechanics it's a good game. I'll be sure to check back in a few months.

    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 11:56

  • Emth #87 3 years ago

    I'd just like to say after playing some WAR open beta and AoC at release - WAR is not another AoC.

    First the combat(i.e. pvp balance) isn't completely broken, second there is actually content. Oh and stats on items actually do something!

    As for the combat mechanics, I don't think it's as bad as many people make out but it certainly isn't as smooth as WoWs. I think a lot of that has to do with graphical and audio feedback while casting/after casting.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 12:02

  • shamblemonkee #88 3 years ago

    oh get over yourself cosmosdk.

    I personally am glad that Eg posted this review and think they should do the same at launch or just prior for other big mmo launches. It's an informed article and the release version is not going to be so drastically different a to invalidate this review.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 12:25

  • Snidesworth #89 3 years ago

    Review is spot on. While playing in the closed beta I was mainly soloing and finding very few people about to do RvR with and it felt a little bland. Then Open Beta rolled around and all my buddies rolled in along with a swathe of others. It's a far, far better experience now. Public Quests are great fun and marred only by the unattackable mob bug (which got fixed this morning, I believe). The RvR scenarios are always a blast and, while less common, the open world RvR stuff is great as well. This morning's patch adds great incentives to participate in the latter as well, with keep bosses now dropping more loot and even the sergeants at battlefield objectives now having a solid chance to drop decent loot. The combat is a little clunkier than WoW's but that never stopped me from having fun. Each class has a role and fills it well. Tanks are horrendously tough when backed up by healers and are very good at taking down lightly armoured DPS classes. Healers, however, can simply heal through a tank's battering, requiring a dedicated DPS class to take them down. And that's just thinking on a 1v1 level, which you'll only rarely see. I'm surprised the review didn't mention collision detection, which is present during RvR. Being able to block chokepoints and prevent people from running through you and away is wonderful for a melee class and is a pretty significant feature of the game. It's also worth noting that the RvR gives you very good rewards: reknown gear is solid, affordable and available from low levels, reknown itself can be cashed in for permanent stat upgrades and special tactics and getting experience, loot and money from battering other players is great.

    The PvE compares a little poorly when stacked up against the RvR, but I've had some good times there as well. The foremost thing in my mind concerning it that it's painless. Unlike WoW, where at any one time you'll be visiting 2-3 different hubs for quests scattered all over the place, all the quest givers are condensed into one hub and their quests concern the areas around said hub. PvE combat in general is also without grief, with very little downtime and mobs that don't outlive their welcome. That said it might be said it's too easy. My housemate, while watching, remarked at how my black orc seemed nearly indestructible, capable of taking on 5 equal leveled mobs at once and battering them all down without too much concern. I didn't mind this at all: it beats having to worry about agroing a single add and being forced to run but it might rub some people the wrong way.

    In either case the main draw of the game will be the RvR. If you're a PvP sort of chap then you should definitely check it out. If you're the sort that's in it for a solo PvE experience, however, this probably won't push your buttons.

    Edit: it's also worth noting that the guild interface is pretty slick, as is the whole levelable guild deal. Not sure about our guild's 26 player cap, though. I hope it increases quickly as the levels roll in.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 12:36

  • paulf #90 3 years ago

    maybe in this type of review it would be better to ditch the mark out of ten and put and indication along the lines of must buy/try it/wait till its fixed etc - and btw gaol is there any mmorpg that you actually like? although tbh i did stop playing AoC after about 1 month as you predicted ;)

  • comedian #91 3 years ago

    Or you could just ditch scores altogether, assigning arbitray numbers to a subjective experience is quite frankly bizarre.

    "So Mr Cézanne, your piece Still Life with a Curtain illustrates a trend towards terse compression of forms and dynamic tension between geometric figures."

    "The "magazines" gave it a 4/5"
    Edited by 2 at 12/09/08 @ 13:01

  • George-Roper #92 3 years ago

    @Rizo

    "For the Horde

    Just cancelled my pre-order from play.

    Back to leveling my Druid Alt

    Come on guys this game is another LOTR at best back to WOW! "


    So, troll, how exactly did you come to this conclusion?

  • Lemming81 #93 3 years ago

    I'm with Roper on this one. And don't worry about Gaol, he's been copy/pasting that same first post everywhere for days now. It seems to really bother him that people might actually, you know, try the game themselves.

    I also have a sneaking suspicion he's been logging in under other accounts to comment on his own threads with gag-inducing comments like "Wow, Gaol! You should review MMOs proffesionally!".... ugh.

    EDIT: Actually, you know what? Anyone who wants to listen to Gaol go ahead. I see it as a filtering tool for morons to stay out of my next MMO hobbie.

    Peace out ;)
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 13:03

  • Rizo #94 3 years ago

    "So, troll, how exactly did you come to this conclusion? "

    You actually see this having a higher sub rate than LOTR?

    The game is fundamentally broken if there isn't a even split. If they put any caps on pop people will be pissed not being able to play with a friends.

    They say this game has been in Beta for 2 years which is bullshit they can't fix simple enemy select issues. Doesn't exacly bode well for the quality of coding in the engine.

    Why are the sounds and animation so shit? did they run out of money? I think they did thats why they cut a bunch of content to get the game out of the door. THATS A FACT

    It's a quick flash burner most people will not resub after first month. With in three months it will have a pop between 300k and 500k IMO

    Now go and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH to your mother

  • Lemming81 #95 3 years ago

    @Rizo:

    "You actually see this having a higher sub rate than LOTR?"

    The hype, vitriol and conflict with fans of this and other MMOs happening all over the net should tell you that, yes, this will indeed have a higher sub than LOTR.

    It's the most reliable indicator you'll ever get.

  • lucasmax #96 3 years ago

    Im glad you're staying in wow Rizo.

  • Rizo #97 3 years ago

    SO i guess you guys didn't have any comeback and agree with what i said about the game being fundamentally broken and rushed.

  • lucasmax #98 3 years ago

    Dont care what you think to be honest, i've played it and I enjoyed it, and I agree with the review, nuff said.

    Why do you think your trollish kiddie outbursts should warrant a response?

  • comedian #99 3 years ago

    "Why do you think your trollish kiddie outbursts should warrant a response? "

    I think you answered your own question.

  • George-Roper #100 3 years ago

    @Rizo

    "You actually see this having a higher sub rate than LOTR?"

    My answer? I don't give a fuck. Companies should not aim to 'topple' other MMORPGs and neither do they need to, to make a good profit each month.


    "The game is fundamentally broken if there isn't a even split. If they put any caps on pop people will be pissed not being able to play with a friends"

    I assume you're referring to the Order/Chaos player split? In a limited Open Beta game? FFS....


    "They say this game has been in Beta for 2 years which is bullshit they can't fix simple enemy select issues. Doesn't exacly bode well for the quality of coding in the engine"

    Fixed in todays patch. Next?


    "Why are the sounds and animation so shit? did they run out of money? I think they did thats why they cut a bunch of content to get the game out of the door. THATS A FACT"

    I don't know what game youre playing but its deffo not WAR. Plus, the Open Beta client doesnt even have all the bells and whistles of the retail version, to keep the Beta client download to a minimum. Regardless, whats there now puts the 'top dog' to shame. THATS A FACT, MR KYLE!


    "It's a quick flash burner most people will not resub after first month. With in three months it will have a pop between 300k and 500k IMO"

    And, again, how would that (if it even happens) be a bad thing as long as the servers are managed properly? My game experience won't change.

    All hail Rizo, who can predict the future just as well as Nostradamus!


    "Now go and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH to your mother"

    Maybe you should go and WAAAAAAAAAGH to yours and get her to buy you a new PC so you're not stuck in WoW-land for the next 5 years? Not because there arent any decent MMORPG alternatives but because your POS system won't run anything else?
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 14:06

  • lucasmax #101 3 years ago

    "I think you answered your own question. "

    ;)

  • kjhasdfjkhk #102 3 years ago

    Rizo

    What the hell are you talking about? The sound effects in this game are great, as is the animation. What are you comparing this to? WoW? Seriously? What are you, blind or just stupid? WoW has TERRIBLE graphics by today's standards and the sound effects don't even come close to this game. You sound like a stupid WoW fanboy who is bitter that all his friends are leaving WoW for WAR and you can't because your mommy wont buy it for you. Go cry somewhere else.

  • anomagnus #103 3 years ago

    @ rizo

    firstly, you're full of shit

    secondly, i dont think you've played the beta

    thirdly, you're full of shit

    so lets spend some time illustrating HOW you're full of shit

    'The game is fundamentally broken if there isn't a even split. If they put any caps on pop people will be pissed not being able to play with a friends. '

    Let me get this straight, you want an even split, and you want a server with no pop cap. Would you like cold fusion with that? Perhaps a perpetual motion machine? You cant have it both ways. They want a RVR server, then anyone that actually plays REAL pvp will know that, they are not probably going to get to play with all their friends all the time. Its on the box, if you dont like it, WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE? Even saying that, they have population management systems in play to prevent this.

    'They say this game has been in Beta for 2 years which is bullshit they can't fix simple enemy select issues. Doesn't exacly bode well for the quality of coding in the engine.'

    what? WHAT? They have NEVER said it has been in beta for 2 years. It has been in DEVELOPMENT for two years you nutsack. Development is NOT beta. Open beta only started a week ago! Closed beta began at the beginning of the year, about 8 full months, NOT TWO YEARS.

    'Why are the sounds and animation so shit? did they run out of money? I think they did thats why they cut a bunch of content to get the game out of the door. THATS A FACT' - ALSO FACT AS HAS BEEN STATED MULTIPLE TIMES BY THE DEVELOPER, IF YOU COULD READ, GRAPHICS SETTINGS HAVE BEEN SET ON LOW TO ENSURE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE GET IN THE BETA. LEARN.TO.READ.

    As for cutting content, do yourself a favor. Find someone that can read. Ask them to go to the patch history section of WoW's webpage, going back to 1.2, and see how much content was added to that game. I bet you didnt even know pvp didn't exist in WoW until 1.5, about 3 months after launch. That game launched incomplete, correct me if i am wrong, it seems to have done quite well.

    'It's a quick flash burner most people will not resub after first month. With in three months it will have a pop between 300k and 500k IMO '

    Heres a quick flash for you, mr expert apart from WoW, which is a freak, 300-500k subscribers is considered quite good. However, in saying that, i expect them to top out about 1,000,000 within the first year, and grow from there. You might also want to consider, that 500,000 was an internal target for WoW when it launched.....

    Christ, i've seen some pathetic troll attempts in my time, but yours was like a cheap sailors whore, dirty, toothless and worth fuck all
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 14:08

  • TriggerHippie #104 3 years ago

    I don't understand where all this WAR hate is coming from. I've been playing the open beta and I have to say I love it. There are things that I would like to see improved, but having played WoW from the US release I'd say this game has a great future ahead of it.

    Don't like WAR? Great, don't play it.Play something you do like. But all this vitriolic bullshit isn't going to stop people enjoying it because we're already there.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 14:08

  • George-Roper #105 3 years ago

    @anomagnus

    "Christ, i've seen some pathetic troll attempts in my time, but yours was like a cheap sailors whore, dirty, toothless and worth fuck all"

    LOL!

  • Rizo #106 3 years ago

    @George

    Are you now trying to say that pop sizes don't matter are you planning to play a MMORPG by yourself? The greater the POP size the more fun a MMORPG is. Can you imagine running a Public quest by yourself?

    "I assume you're referring to the Order/Chaos player split? In a limited Open Beta game? FFS.... "

    Mystic has not said anything about how they are going to balance pop sizes. If the pop size is two much on either side the whole game becomes pointless FACT.

    "Fixed in todays patch. Next?"

    Sorry how long did that take them. A simple bug like that. DOes not bode well for any larger issues which come up being fixed quickly.

    Dude everyone is saying that the animation and sound is shit other than WAR fanboys. The fighing feels dislocated and just isn't fun. Alot of people are comparing this game to guild wars and saying it's a poor counterpart.

    @kjhasdfjkhk

    I agree wow graphics are shit. That does not excuse shit animation in WAR.

    All mystic have done is look at WOW realised it has shit PVP and attemped to copy WOW but put in PVP instead of PVE.

    I'm predicting server merges within 6 months once the hype has gone and people relaise it's just a poor wow clone

  • anomagnus #107 3 years ago

    oh fuck me

    Mystic has not said anything about how they are going to balance pop sizes. If the pop size is two much on either side the whole game becomes pointless FACT.

    Actually, YES THEY HAVE. Go to Warhamemr Alliance, theres are several posts from Mark Jacobs about it

    Sorry how long did that take them. A simple bug like that. DOes not bode well for any larger issues which come up being fixed quickly.

    A simple bug the man says. A simple bug. You see, in your snide little manner, you make it seem so simple. It wasnt a simple case of every single monster failing to act. It affected only certian creatures are certain points, which means trawling the code, and we're taking a lot of code, to find out what the issue was. Perhaps they should have hired you, since you're an expert.

    Dude everyone is saying that the animation and sound is shit other than WAR fanboys. The fighing feels dislocated and just isn't fun. Alot of people are comparing this game to guild wars and saying it's a poor counterpart.

    Really, lots of people are they? I know lots of people that arent, including myself, has actually played both of them. Do you have proof for example, apart from mysterious forumites? I refer to my previous post, maybe you will understand it this time.

    GRAPHICS.

    SETTINGS.

    HAVE.

    NOT.

    BEEN.

    FULLY.

    IMPLEMENTED.

    I hope that was clear. Next time i could use crayons and coloured paper.

    I'm predicting server merges within 6 months once the hype has gone and people relaise it's just a poor wow clone

    I'm predicting that right now, you're a troll, and that in six months, i'm predicting you'll look like a tit

  • VicViper #108 3 years ago

    Having not played the beta but looked at some screen shots, oh and that cinematic into thing, I can say that this looks like every MMO in the world, will play like them and with be just as much as a time sink.

    Your guy(forget who) who complained that WAR would not have the getting everyone to a raid on time in Warcraft, I didn't know WAR had a feature that made people turn up on time, that is advanced for MMO's truly a step forward for the genre.

    I might try this when it comes out, assuming the WOLK doesn't hit the selfs frist, need to get more ram for my laptop though slight higher spec at 2 ram(Is that the recommened ram, bad memory).

    The review seems fair enough based on that I give the game eleventy Cats out of firee Pizza and the review foueven Oranges out of Sevirty Double-decker Bus

  • Gunzberg #109 3 years ago

    @ anomagnus

    Best comment so far - very fun to read during lunchbreak ;)

  • Rizo #110 3 years ago

    @anomagnus

    "Let me get this straight, you want an even split, and you want a server with no pop cap. Would you like cold fusion with that? Perhaps a perpetual motion machine? You cant have it both ways. They want a RVR server, then anyone that actually plays REAL pvp will know that, they are not probably going to get to play with all their friends all the time. Its on the box, if you dont like it, WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE? Even saying that, they have population management systems in play to prevent this."

    So basically you are agreeing with me here the game is fundamentally broken as a MMORPG. I can't play it with my friends?

    "what? WHAT? They have NEVER said it has been in beta for 2 years. It has been in DEVELOPMENT for two years you nutsack. Development is NOT beta. Open beta only started a week ago! Closed beta began at the beginning of the year, about 8 full months, NOT TWO YEARS."

    Ok you may have me here I read it had been in beta for 2 years inclign the eldar game maybe someone with a link can sort this?

    "ALSO FACT AS HAS BEEN STATED MULTIPLE TIMES BY THE DEVELOPER, IF YOU COULD READ, GRAPHICS SETTINGS HAVE BEEN SET ON LOW TO ENSURE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE GET IN THE BETA. LEARN.TO.READ."

    Your wrong there will be some minor graphic update but thats not going to fix the shit animation. You will find out next week and then you will start waffaling about some patch which will magically fix the issues

    "As for cutting content, do yourself a favor. Find someone that can read. Ask them to go to the patch history section of WoW's webpage, going back to 1.2, and see how much content was added to that game. I bet you didnt even know pvp didn't exist in WoW until 1.5, about 3 months after launch. That game launched incomplete, correct me if i am wrong, it seems to have done quite well. "

    So because WOW cut content it's ok for WAR to cut content to get the game out of the door?

  • Rizo #111 3 years ago

    @anomagnus

    Actually i am abit of an expert. It's an easily recreatable bug. They just need to run the client in debug. Select a monster when it happens look as the value of variables in the select code and then bobs your uncle.

    Stop trying to defend inferior products!! and low quality coding!!

    If you keep buying rushed broken games developers will keep releasing them.

  • Lemming81 #112 3 years ago

    @Rizo: "Actually i am abit of an expert. It's an easily recreatable bug. They just need to run the client in debug. Select a monster when it happens look as the value of variables in the select code and then bobs your uncle. "


    LOL! Oh wait, you're serious aren't you? Oh dear.

    Ignoring your massive ignorance for a sec, let's just remember that in Beta, there can be a million bugs, small or large and your opinion on the matter counts for shit until the game hits retail.

    Then bemoan 'simple fixable bugs' all you want without looking like a complete retard. Just a simple troll.

  • Gaol #113 3 years ago

    I think Rizo is trolling you fanboys a bit. WAR isn't 'fundamentally broken', end of. It's a bit shoddy in it's current state, and the stodgy combat infects the whole playing experience with a feeling of cheapness; but the foundations are solid enough. With a lot of love and attention, it might even become 'quite good' after a few months; but I'm not paying subs waiting to find out.

  • viper_h #114 3 years ago

    I fucking hate MMOs for the sole reason that they're just an excuse for developers to release unfinished, unpolished games, and then charge you to play them while they finish it! Disgusting!

  • George-Roper #115 3 years ago

    @Rizo

    "Are you now trying to say that pop sizes don't matter are you planning to play a MMORPG by yourself? The greater the POP size the more fun a MMORPG is. Can you imagine running a Public quest by yourself?"

    Way to take you 'argument' to the extreme. If population declines to that level of severity, servers will merge and they will go back up again. IF. Big IF. I don't know and, frankly, nor do you. All I do know is that i've partaken in many MMORPG betas and WAR is right up there as one of the most complete, solid, Betas i've ever played. Ever.


    "I assume you're referring to the Order/Chaos player split? In a limited Open Beta game? FFS.... "
    Mystic has not said anything about how they are going to balance pop sizes. If the pop size is two much on either side the whole game becomes pointless FACT"

    How is this ANY different to WoW? Explain please, becauase Alliance/Horde player numbers fluctuate up and down on an HOURLY basis in WoW BGs. FACT.


    "Fixed in todays patch. Next?"
    Sorry how long did that take them. A simple bug like that. Does not bode well for any larger issues which come up being fixed quickly"

    As ive said above, WAR in its Open Beta state is one of the most solid MMORPGs ive ever played. FACT. If they dont get around to fixing one bug until the week before release, i'm a happy bunny.


    "Dude everyone is saying that the animation and sound is shit other than WAR fanboys. The fighing feels dislocated and just isn't fun. Alot of people are comparing this game to guild wars and saying it's a poor counterpart"

    Everyone? Well, im part of 'everyone' and I don't think so. And if it does turn out to be a major issue, it will be addressed. No worries. I'll gladly give Mythic 9 quid/month for up to 6 months to help fine tune and fix bugs, because the game as it stands is fucking SOLID, has CONTENT, is ACCESSIBLE and above all else, is GREAT FUN to play. End of.

  • George-Roper #116 3 years ago

    @Rizo

    "Ok you may have me here I read it had been in beta for 2 years inclign the eldar game maybe someone with a link can sort this?"

    Just please get the fuck outta here. It was obvious that you've never even played the game before posting, taking 3rd hand information as gospel, but your blanket lack of knowledge on the development and Beta history is appallingly tragic.

    You have nothing to base your 'facts' on, apart from forums and hearsay. I'd say try the game but, frankly. i'd prefer cretins like you just go elsewhere.

  • George-Roper #117 3 years ago

    @Gaol

    "I think Rizo is trolling you fanboys a bit. WAR isn't 'fundamentally broken', end of. It's a bit shoddy in it's current state, and the stodgy combat infects the whole playing experience with a feeling of cheapness; but the foundations are solid enough. With a lot of love and attention, it might even become 'quite good' after a few months; but I'm not paying subs waiting to find out. "

    Of course he is. It's just funny poking holes in his 'facts'. Facts based not on personal experience but 'facts' taken from forums and hearsay.

    Tragic.

  • mrchu #118 3 years ago

    "Select a monster when it happens look as the value of variables in the select code and then bobs your uncle. "

    Looks like you have a general idea of what the word debug means, and nothing more.

  • George-Roper #119 3 years ago

    @Rizo

    On http://ww w.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_po... at 11:39am yesterday, you said...


    "I have the SE

    Where is my code!!
    I want my code!!"


    I'd dearly like to know what has changed between 11:39am yesterday and today. Are you basing all your hatred on EGs review? An 8/10 review?

    I'm staggered that someone who had so much joy and glee at getting their hands on WAR yesterday can pretty much snap overnight, as much as you have.

    Please, enlighten us...
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/08 @ 15:46

  • Slim #120 3 years ago

    @George Roper

    Yes, I agree a lot of the wow art is silly and making high end chars look ever more christmas tree like. I maintain that this doesn't really matter, the fact is that christmas tree tier 5 char is easily regognisable as someone in tier 5 gear. I've only played a bit of WowHammer, but even in the first few levels, nothing much changes on your char when you change gear. I played DAoC a lot, hit the level cap and looked pretty much the same as my level 5 char, I could just afford different dyes. My observation is that Wowhammer is similar, and that's a big downside for many people.

  • George-Roper #121 3 years ago

    @Slim

    "Yes, I agree a lot of the wow art is silly and making high end chars look ever more christmas tree like. I maintain that this doesn't really matter, the fact is that christmas tree tier 5 char is easily regognisable as someone in tier 5 gear. I've only played a bit of WowHammer, but even in the first few levels, nothing much changes on your char when you change gear. I played DAoC a lot, hit the level cap and looked pretty much the same as my level 5 char, I could just afford different dyes. My observation is that Wowhammer is similar, and that's a big downside for many people"

    Thats a little unfair, dont you think? From the way youre talking, its like WoW characters are all unique from the offset, when we both know that 'unique' only comes from armour sets, typically found at least 20-30 levels in. You can't really judge WAR based on the first few levels worth of gear...

    Can you elaborate on whether you've seen the high-end WAR gear and whether youre basing your views on this? If so, any links so I can take a look too?

  • George-Roper #122 3 years ago

    Also, could we drop the 'Wowhammer' references. It's hardly like World of Everquest was 100% original when it was released either...

  • IronCladChicken #123 3 years ago

    Bollox the game has only been in development for two years.

  • IronCladChicken #124 3 years ago

    @ muftak
    UO isnt in my eyes the same sort of game really , UO is more akin to animal crossing all about collecting stuff dont get me wrong loved UO because you didnt have to kill all the time , also there wasnt the group mechanics like EQ personally it was abit stupid to compare EQ with UO .

    Dude, what are you talking about UO was all about killing, building skills, etc.. it's strength was PvP more than PvE (due to lack of quests back in the ninties - it may have changed now)

    There were huge comunity quests - where monsters would trash a town, a call of arms being raised to all players by NPC's (being controlled by Origin staff)

    An extensive crafting system, a large world to explore... essentially it was an Ultima engine with the solo-story removed.

    Not to say that it wasn't lacking in a lot of area that later MMO's picked up on, just that really - Animal Crossing????

    'if you got a pure killing game style like EQ/EQ2/WoW/WaR it should be pue grouping it should be about adventures with friends not just a game where you can solo that runs no risks or a game that dosnt force you to group ,sure have a solo game up to 20 then make it really hard to lvl after.'

    Pure killing was definitly in there - the big problem (for me) was that there were so many people happy to gang up and kill lower level players making the gameplay frustrating when you lose points, have to ghost all the way back to a healer then run back to your looted corpse only to find the same gang camped out waiting to kill you again - frustrating days! :)

  • Slim #125 3 years ago

    George, your dribbling fanboyism of Wowhammer seems to be getting in the way of your ability to understand my point. I said it was typical of mythic to do this, because my experience is of DAoC. Like I said originally, I don't know for sure Wowhammer doesn't have multiple sets of highly different and visible leet gear later on, but I'm guessing based on what I've seen that it doesn't.

    The biggest shame though is that it's like Warcraft. It shouldn't be, it should be like Warhammer, and it isn't. It feels like warcraft, I played it like I played warcraft, I didn't even have to look up the keys.

    I didn't go in anti-wowhammer, I was quite looking forward to trying something different. I quit wow over a year ago because I got tired of it, so was looking for something new. Wowhammer isn't it, it actually feels like a wow expansion rather than a new game.

  • George-Roper #126 3 years ago

    @Slim

    "George, your dribbling fanboyism of Wowhammer seems to be getting in the way of your ability to understand my point. I said it was typical of mythic to do this, because my experience is of DAoC. Like I said originally, I don't know for sure Wowhammer doesn't have multiple sets of highly different and visible leet gear later on, but I'm guessing based on what I've seen that it doesn't"

    Dribbling fanboyism? All ive done is come here and set the record straight, when haters came shoving their way into the thread of an 8/10 game review. Typical of Mythic? Who have one game, pre-WoW, under their belts? Can't you even grasp that if armour-sets and 'cool' armour is so important that Mythic would address that for WAR? You've basically come here, said that because Mythic didn't do 'cool' armour in DaoC, to your liking, WAR will be exactly the same, without any kind of fact to back up your claims. Get a grip.


    "The biggest shame though is that it's like Warcraft. It shouldn't be, it should be like Warhammer, and it isn't. It feels like warcraft, I played it like I played warcraft, I didn't even have to look up the keys."

    Some might be disappointed, as you are, and some may not, as i'm not. WoW has controls down pat. No question. So why not reuse them? Would you prefer Mythic to implement a completely different control scheme, just for that sake alone? Listen to what youre saying.


    "I didn't go in anti-wowhammer, I was quite looking forward to trying something different. I quit wow over a year ago because I got tired of it, so was looking for something new. Wowhammer isn't it, it actually feels like a wow expansion rather than a new game."

    What, a WoW expansion where all the WAR RvR ideas are implemented? a WoW expansion where you can play a thoroughly EVIL side, not some psuedo-evil, politically correct, side? A WoW expansion where the engine has been upgraded to actually take advantage of todays hardware?

    Sorry, but you could level those criticisms at any number of good, new, games that come out, borrowing from previous games that were well received. Take Crysis Warhead, for example.

    Why wouldnt Mythic want to take as much of what makes WoW good and implement it into WAR? Just as Blizzard did from EQ1. Just as SOE did from Meridian 59?

    Pure originality is a thing of the past. The far, far past. Name me one fantasy MMORPG that has been released in a purely original format, that has gone on to do well. Would you prefer to get a couple of months play out of WAR and see it tank? Or would you rather the developers play against an established format and build on that with their own content?

    From what i've seen so far its been a comfortable, accessible, enjoyable game based on a familiar interface and control scheme. Exactly what I wanted out of it, as i'm sure it will be exactly what other ex-WoW players will want to move onto. Minimal fuss, minimal confusion, straight into the game and the enjoyment.

  • MaxiSleep #127 3 years ago

    If I understand the review the combat has a pretty average feel to it due to bad timimg. Combat is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN A MMO. Game scores an 8.

    I am really finding it hard to understand MMO reviews and ratings in Eurogamer.

  • SleepyMagpie #128 3 years ago

    You and me both, Maxisleep. And a few other, non-dribbling fanboys as well.

    As it stands now, Warhammer is a MMOG with potential but flaws. From a salty MMORPG'ers view, it's a 6/10 atm. In my book that is not good enough to warrant a purchase, and effort, now.

    If you're keen on the Warhammer setting, give it 6 months, and then check in again.

    Eurogamer have totally lost control of the inflation running rampant in their ten point scoring scale. It doesn't hurt them with the publishers and devs, mind..

  • Krelle #129 3 years ago

    You say the combat feels "off".
    When I first played LotR Online at launch I thought it felt really weird. Like there was no connection between what I did and the character did.

    2 part question:

    -Is Lotro's combat still in this state?
    -How does WAR feel compared to LotrO (at launch)?

  • magicpanda #130 3 years ago

    Combat was fixed and improved today. It's feeling a lot less sluggish although the animations are still a bit shady and misfiring.

    It was one of my main issues but it's getting much much better.

  • SleepyMagpie #131 3 years ago

    -Is Lotro's combat still in this state?

    -How does WAR feel compared to LotrO (at launch)?

    I can attempt to answer these two, having been present both at LotRO launch and playing now.

    Unless you hit an evening with net congestion, LotRO's combat, as everything else now - is smooth as silk. Actions fire off when you toggle them, accompanied by clear, unmistakable and synched sounds. The different classes, soon to be augmented by two more, give you a range of different playstyles. You can play, and actually feel good at it and accomplish more if you're skilled, than a lesser player can. Skill plays a part. As opposed to in a game like Age of Conan, where you basically mash, and WAR (atm), where you feel uncertain about what's going off and when..

    LotRO at release had major issues with memory leaks, and this led to ever degrading framerates and eventually crashes. On the way to memory overflow, your FPS and general responsiveness would suffer.

    This is not the case with WAR, where it seems the problem is twofold. 1. Bad network code (that is, inefficient handling of calls between your rig and the server). 2. A built-in low animation framecount. That is, the characters have very few frames of animation leading to choppy, wiggly, and erratic movement, and also, it seems, to gaps between action animations. It's not pretty. Although the graphics are decent, it's the animation that really blows in WAR.

    So this leads to some of the same issues that LotRO had, but in LotRO's defense, the engine even at release was more advanced than WAR's is now. And these days, the LotRO engine is just sweet. It is probably the best, working showcase of DX10 graphics atm in an online game (what, we didn't get the promised DX10 goodness in AoC? No we didn't. Not that it would've helped, mind).

    I'm usually not one to bang another games drum when discussing a particular title, but now that you mention it - with the advent of The Mines of Moria - LotRO is looking very schweet indeed. ^^

  • Krelle #132 3 years ago

    Ah, thanks for that Magpie.

    If I would ever have the time to play MMOs again, Id probably give LotRO another chance.

  • SleepyMagpie #133 3 years ago

    Don't mention it, Krelle.

    Another good thing about LotRO is that you don't have to go apeshit gearhunting. You can get by with decent stuff and some skill. Leaves some room for ones' so-called life.

    It's in a sense casual without being stupid and shallow.

  • George-Roper #134 3 years ago

    LotRO was one of the most dull, bland, lifeless MMORPGs i've ever played. And, yes, I consider myself to be an extremely salty MMORG player.

    The mere fact that its instanced so much, you're forced to perform a tutorial outside the normal LotrO 'game world' was enough to put me straight off. As was when a friend and I tried to hook up, stood at the same point in a starting village and couldn't see each other, because the game had decided to instance us off EVEN MORE!

    As for the graphics, on my 8800GTX 768mb it looked flat, colourless and extremely bland. Extremely so. WoW was like a breath of fresh air, after i'd cancelled my LotRO account and went back.

    Also, wiith WAR, there's no false sense of 'playing the lore' like LotrO tries to imply and like SWG failed so badly at. In a MMORPG, to imply that your character had such a fundamental link with core lore characters is, frankly, farcical and just goes to show how desparate Turbine and Codemasters were to try and lure LotR fans in. The fact that you 'fight a Nazgul' in the tutorial is proof enough, of this.

    Additionally, where you start in LotRO and have to 'fight' through a few solo fights, there's zero sense of danger and of you being in any kind of battle. Nadda! Start a Dwarf or High Elf in WAR and you're immediately thrust into pitched battles against Chaos, with the rest of the racial playerbase. The High Elf starting area, in particular, shows a Dark Elven attack on their lands, in full swing. Replete with smashed up buildings and dead Elven heroes having mournful dirges sung over their bodies.

    Trust me on this, and I speak from personal experience with WAR, the issues with the 'feedback' that everyone seems to think its cool to rag on, are A) Not gamebreaking in any way shape or form and B) Like all aspects of the game, will be improved.

    Mythic deserves support with WAR. Its a good, solid, game even in its Open Beta form. After seeing countless MMORPG Betas come and go, WAR is without a doubt in the top three, in terms of quality.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/08 @ 08:18

  • George-Roper #135 3 years ago

    Oh, and for the record, I don't think WAR is a perfect game, at all. Whether i'm seen to be a 'dribbling fanboi' or not...

    So far i've seen issues with animations locking, had a CTD and have annoyances with a lack of V-sync option so i'm seeing some screen tearing.

    Looting could be tightened up, tool-tips seem to be an on or off only option, rather than being key-activated, and im struggling with the chat interface a bit.

    However, the enjoyment i'm having far, far outweighs these low points. It's a fun game, regardless of what the haters may try to convince you of.

  • Amnesia #136 3 years ago


    The Emo-count on this one is high eh? :)

    You can't get away from the fact that Warhammer is so WoW that it feels ripped off and repetitive of something that's already done it much better. It simply had to be a choice to do this and there is without doubt a lack of imagination in not differentiating it more. Also, for a game that has been in development so long and beta-tested for a year, the jerkiness of animation and frame-rate issues are a mess and seriously undermine the feeling of immersion in the game. This is on a C2D and an 8800. And before I get CAP-SED into the middle of next week, no that will not change due to increasing the graphics settings or be miraculously resolved by the release_settings-pixie because the simpler the graphics the higher the framerate to state the bleeding obvious. There's something not right with the engine and / or with the netcode in this game and that wrecks the feeling of 'being there'.

    If you enjoy it, good luck to you, but there's several people I know who were more or less gagging for a new MMORPG to waste some time on and this has undershot by a considerable mark and won't be picked up by them or me. It's not just a bit of a miss but quite a miss.

  • knightmt #137 3 years ago

    I am really exited about this, mainly because of the Warhammer pedigree, I have no experience of MMO. But I remember White Dwarf from when I was a kid and even though I could not afford an army, I did like the figures and thought the artwork was awesome. I will be having a look at the game I do not know how long I will subscribe because I do not like spending too long on the machine. I just want to have a look at the art work see if the game is fun and I shall not be playing the Beta as I am too lazy.
    When are they going to bring drugs and dragons on line that had amazing artwork as well.

  • George-Roper #138 3 years ago

    @Amnesia

    "The Emo-count on this one is high eh? :)"

    I wouldn't say so. I'd just say that if Player 1 doesn't enjoy the game but Player 2 does, and Player 1 decides to slag it off on an 8/10 review, then Player 2 is also justified in coming in and stating why its a good game. Simple as that.


    "You can't get away from the fact that Warhammer is so WoW that it feels ripped off and repetitive of something that's already done it much better. It simply had to be a choice to do this and there is without doubt a lack of imagination in not differentiating it more. Also, for a game that has been in development so long and beta-tested for a year, the jerkiness of animation and frame-rate issues are a mess and seriously undermine the feeling of immersion in the game. This is on a C2D and an 8800. And before I get CAP-SED into the middle of next week, no that will not change due to increasing the graphics settings or be miraculously resolved by the release_settings-pixie because the simpler the graphics the higher the framerate to state the bleeding obvious. There's something not right with the engine and / or with the netcode in this game and that wrecks the feeling of 'being there'."

    You can't get away from the fact that WoW is so Everquest it feels ripped off and repetitive of something else. Your opinion that WoW does it 'much better' is just that. An opinion. It's my opinion that WAR handles PvP to a level that leaves WoW staggering a distant second. It's my opinion that Mythic providing an accessible, comfortable and familiar interface is genious design, because it makes the transition to WAR just that much easier. If a control system works, why on earth would you choose to fuck about with it? Calling all First Person Shooters since Quake, who default to WASD controls....

    Frame-rate issues? I'm also running a C2D with an 8800GTX 768mb and i've not once encountered any frame-rate issues, aside from the initial loading of zones. Which, I might add, took Blizzard months to finally address in Lagforge and the like.

    No, the simpler the graphics, the lower-spec you can run it on and maintain good speed. You argument falls flat on its face, when leveled against other games like Crysis, which I can run on a mixture of High/Very High and still retain good FPS. Please don't attempt to generalize and tell me what my framerate in WAR is, when im actually, y'know, sat here looking at it running on max settings across the board.

    Plus, of course problems can be rectified, if they present that much of an issue for the WAR playerbase. Its an online game, which have been historically known to be things which can be patched . Taking a snapshot of the game at release, and not only that but currently still in Beta , is a woefully short-sighted way to view a MMORPG. We all know that as soon as the game is out, development kicks into bug fixing and improvements. If the worst thing that can be leveled at WAR at the moment is the 'lack of feedback' crap thats doing the rounds and Mythic get whatever they feel needs to be fixed, fixed in the next 2-3 weeks, what exactly will that leave the haters with? What will be the next 'game breaker' drivel that gets spouted over the interweb?


    "If you enjoy it, good luck to you, but there's several people I know who were more or less gagging for a new MMORPG to waste some time on and this has undershot by a considerable mark and won't be picked up by them or me. It's not just a bit of a miss but quite a miss."

    And yet this very site gave a pre-release code, Beta, version of something that's 'quite a miss', 8/10.

    For the several people that you know, I also know several people who have already canceled their WoW subscriptions, after partaking in the WAR Open Beta, who have then gone on to pre-order the SE and CE game for head-start access.


    It's my opinion that a large amount of people are intensely insecure about what WAR represents. A good alternative to WoW. An alternative that, in all likelihood, will reduce a number of WoW guilds to nothing more than husks. I believe that this is the reason there's so much anger about it. That it has the potential to not overtake WoW but to decimate Raid communities and Guild populations, across the board.

    And you know what? I hope it does. Not because I hate WoW but because competition is a good thing and will force Blizzard to up their ante even more. The outcome of which is obvious. Better games for everyone.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/08 @ 12:19

  • butler` #139 3 years ago

    WAR is WoW... for men.

    end of.

  • SleepyMagpie #140 3 years ago

    @George Roper

    LotRO overinstanced? Agreed it does have instances, dungeons, areas, and houses do cause you to load. But the pause is maximum 5 seconds the first time, and just about instantaneous at repeats. That said, the zones in LotRO are HUGE. They really let you feel you're in a large land, with greatly varying topography. No other MMOG does that as well, atm. Therefore you rarely run into zones.

    Being in the same village and not seeing your mate 'cos of instancing in LotRO? That sounds like you're confusing it with another game, Age of Conan. AoC did that. It was even more instanced than Guild Wars, which is free of monthly charges anyhow, and actually better.

    An LotRO being ugly? Well, different strokes for different folks and all that, but I don't view you as salty after a comment like that - pickled, more like.

    And, given your exertions - hang around Mythic/GOA/EA much?

  • George-Roper #141 3 years ago

    @SleepyMagpie

    "LotRO overinstanced? Agreed it does have instances, dungeons, areas, and houses do cause you to load. But the pause is maximum 5 seconds the first time, and just about instantaneous at repeats. That said, the zones in LotRO are HUGE. They really let you feel you're in a large land, with greatly varying topography. No other MMOG does that as well, atm. Therefore you rarely run into zones"

    Any online game that forces me into my own little personal tutorial, whilst retaining chat across the server, is doing something wrong. We both did the intro piece where we saw the Nazgul off and then we both progressed into a town quest hub, where we both stood by the trainers and couldnt see each other. Even though I could see other players running around, at that point, which is what led us to believe that either we were still in somekind of tutorial or the zone we were in was split across multiple instances. Regardless, we couldn't group properly and it fucked both of our game experiences, at that point.


    "Being in the same village and not seeing your mate 'cos of instancing in LotRO? That sounds like you're confusing it with another game, Age of Conan. AoC did that. It was even more instanced than Guild Wars, which is free of monthly charges anyhow, and actually better"

    Nope, LotRO. I've never touched AoC or Guild Wars.


    "An LotRO being ugly? Well, different strokes for different folks and all that, but I don't view you as salty after a comment like that - pickled, more like"

    Well, clearly. My strokes are great artistic style and atmosphere, which is why I played WoW for a few years. It certainly wasn't for the cutting-edge graphics. WAR continues that style with aplomb, whereas LotRO was dull, bland (and I mean shades of beige and grey) and completely lacking any sense of style. FFS, my hat looked like someone had curled one off on my head....


    "And, given your exertions - hang around Mythic/GOA/EA much?"

    Nope. Got into the WAR Open Beta (finally) on Tuesday and a few days of gameplay have given me all I need to know that WAR is now my game of choice. Equally, I could also level the same question to you, seeing as youre actually IN a WAR thread, pushing LotRO down everyones throats. Hang around Codemasters/Turbine much?

    RvR takes PvP to the next level, way above and beyond WoW and something which LotRO is so far behind its not even really funny mentioning it.

    The graphics have also caught my eye (finally some MMORPG use out of my 8800GTX) as have many lovely little touches such as the Questing system detail, the Tome of Knowledge, Achievements (the first time I got 'The Desecrated' after being ganked in RvR made me crack a huge smile), the trinket system that lets you attach little items to your armour for extra decoration, the Bragging Rights tab, the fact I can level in PvP or PvE and get loot from either method, the fact that PvP isnt all in self-contained instances and actually affects the game-world, the way that the starting areas are really nicely woven into the thread of the Warhammer universe and aren't some detached solo-yet-online tutorial and even the way that my abilites (so far, i'll admit im only 13th) dont go up in 'ranks'.

    One of the things that really irritated me in other games is that you get a 'spell level', trot off to train and find out you have Fireball - Rank 9 and Fireblast - Rank 9. Whoopeedo! The way that WAR approaches this is that your abilities level as you do. So, for example, my Bright Mage had Fireball at level 1 and at level 13 still has Fireball but it does way more damage. A small difference but one that makes a lot of sense.

  • Amnesia #142 3 years ago


    George, I'm fearing for your mental health.

    "Please don't attempt to generalize and tell me what my framerate in WAR is, when im actually, y'know, sat here looking at it running on max settings across the board"

    What? Who's talking about you? I'm talking about my experience with incidentally the same spec vid card as you. Amazing that you think that someone is talking about you in a 143 post thread. Have you taken your tablets?

    And actually the rest of my post is my impression of things too. There isn't an objectively correct point of view, just individual points of view. Good for you if you enjoy it, why not. Why the fuck you think you should 'correct' me on my subjective point of view I have no idea.

    BTW bolding things is generally rude. It can also make you look like a plank if you can't spell right.... genius (sic)

  • George-Roper #143 3 years ago

    @Amnesia

    "George, I'm fearing for your mental health.
    "Please don't attempt to generalize and tell me what my framerate in WAR is, when im actually, y'know, sat here looking at it running on max settings across the board"
    What? Who's talking about you? I'm talking about my experience with incidentally the same spec vid card as you. Amazing that you think that someone is talking about you in a 143 post thread. Have you taken your tablets?"

    Its really easy. We both have C2D and 8800 cards, yet apparently your system has a crap framerate and mine has a fantasic framerate, even when on the highest settings possible. So, what youre saying is that if your C2D and 8800 is shit on WAR, everyone elses must be shit too, yes? Well, actually, no. Get a new PC or get some new drivers, or something, because your experiences do not reflect everyone else who has that spec of hardware, if you even have it at all.


    "And actually the rest of my post is my impression of things too. There isn't an objectively correct point of view, just individual points of view. Good for you if you enjoy it, why not. Why the fuck you think you should 'correct' me on my subjective point of view I have no idea."

    Because your entire attitude was that of a troll, plain and simple. There was no 'emo' going on in this thread, until you chose to throw accusations of it around. Incidentally, a thread of a review of a game that has scored 8/10 by someone, and im sorry to say this, I have roughly a gigaton more trust in that your meagre 'experiences'.

    Additionally, you also chose to blanket ignore the fact that as WAR copies WoW, WoW copied EQ1. For all your gibbering, you fail to even awknowledge this fundamental fact. Not because of any other reason than you can't refute a single word of it.


    "BTW bolding things is generally rude. It can also make you look like a plank if you can't spell right.... genius (sic)"

    If there's one thing I know, just one, its that when someone goes after spelling mistakes, they've nothing else to use, so congrats! You've just proven what a tragic, trolling, cunt you really are.

  • Amnesia #144 3 years ago


    Seriously, you need to calm down George. All these war & peace length postings and the extreme emotional outpourings just because someone has a different point of view from you - you just look damn odd.

    Whatever conspiracy theory you choose to construct is up to you. I called this Emo because there were people posting in caps and with line returns between them which is without doubt Emo. And since you call me a troll and a cunt, I guess you've rather proved the point. Anyhoo I'm not trolling, I'm just expressing an opinion. Why you have to get so worked up about it is utterly beyond me and I suspect 99% of the people reading your comments. It's just my opinion!

  • George-Roper #145 3 years ago

    LOL!

    Please, just GTFO of a thread of a game that you don't like. Troll.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/08 @ 20:06

  • Amnesia #146 3 years ago


    Hahahah excellent. In the 9 years I've been visiting Eurogamer no-one has ever called me a troll. Takes me right back to the dot com boom days. You aren't related to Bigfoot are you?

    Threads are for discussion of games with views both for and against. It's how it works and did when I signed up as user 50 here and did even after you signed up as user 7000+. Stop being so ridiculously OTT.

  • Lemming81 #147 3 years ago

    You've made your point George (a dozen more times than you needed to), and I agree with you.

    Time to leave the thread, pal you are starting to undermine your credability at this point.

  • BaggyAnt #148 3 years ago

    Well I'm looking forward to it, but then I think I am very lucky in that I enjoy a multitude of MMO's and don't need to spite over another. What I will say is yes there are some similarities in it's look to WOW.

    However, WOW is pretty much a tribute to the WarHammer world for characterisation. Orginally, Blizzard wanted to use the Warhammer licence, it was refused hence the release of the Warcraft series.

    At the end of the day though does it really matter, all I hope is that WAR is succesful as competition can only be a good thing....

  • George-Roper #149 3 years ago

    @Lemming81

    Come on, Lemming. He comes into a positive review thread, bashing a game I don't even think he's* played, without even any prior posting history on WAR.

    It's clear what his agenda is and im buggered if im going to let turds like him put potential players off, spouting shite about how its got a crap framerate on a C2D/8800 (/boggle)and claiming WAR is the first ever MMORPG to steal ideas from competitors. Its complete bollocks and he knows it.

    Mythic deserve success from WAR, based purely on the Open Beta quality. It absolutely doesn't deserve tossers like that throwing negativity around with gay abandon, purely to troll the thread.

    There are other, more deserving, games out there that do deserve a slagging off. Vanguard and Tabula Rasa being the main, recent, ones. WAR is far and way a better quality release than either of those two.


    @Amnesia

    You could be the 50th person or the 500th person to sign up, I just dont give enough of a fuck to care. Oh, and by the way, a 46 post count history is nothing you should be shouting up about, if you're gonna have this 'i'm a leet poster, check my sign up, dude'' attitude.


    *he, for ease of posting
    Edited by 2 at 13/09/08 @ 22:58

  • Amnesia #150 3 years ago


    Ok well I will leave this thread now because you are just being waaaaay too odd. I expressed an opinion from my experiences in the open beta. Where you get off thinking I haven't played the game I have no clue. Since you have no evidence for it, it's a pretty delusional kind of imagining. Why on earth would you start asserting crap like that? Why you think I have an 'agenda' is beyond everyone, I suspect. I don't I just posted an opinion. I don't happen to like it too much but from my first post I said fair enough to those who do. In return you call me a cunt, a troll, a turd. Stylish kind of guy aren't you? Must ask the eurogamer guys about you next time I'm out for a beer with them. You are genuinely weird.

  • George-Roper #151 3 years ago

    Oh, sweet mercy, how many more 'subtle' announcements do we all have to endure, Amnesia?

    First, you were the 50th person to sign up to EG and now you'll ask about me when 'you're out for a beer with the EG guys', neither of which have anything even remotely to do with WAR. Whatsover. Are we all like supposed to be impressed with these revelations and then take your words as gospel? Like somehow you have better insight than the rest of us, because you know 'the guys'?

    /facepalm

    I don't believe you've even played it because of your poor frame-rate observations with your supposed C2D and 8800. There is no way that I believe you'd have issues here because I have a similiar, if not identical, setup and its been silky smooth the whole way through.

    Anyway, done too.

  • Yoghurt_Pot #152 3 years ago

    got to this thread late, but im impressed at both the gameplay and how WAR scales nicely across all computers of varying power.

    i run it from a laptop and have no problems of framerate drops at all.

    top game, lots of fun.

  • Slim #153 3 years ago

    George the mental wrote:

    "Dribbling fanboyism? All ive done is come here and set the record straight, when haters came shoving their way into the thread of an 8/10 game review. Typical of Mythic? Who have one game, pre-WoW, under their belts? Can't you even grasp that if armour-sets and 'cool' armour is so important that Mythic would address that for WAR? You've basically come here, said that because Mythic didn't do 'cool' armour in DaoC, to your liking, WAR will be exactly the same, without any kind of fact to back up your claims. Get a grip. "

    Set the record straight? The arrogance is outstanding! Typical of Mythic, yes, DAoC's been running for years, with multiple expansions. Here comes WAR and it, in my view, suffers from a similar underlying issue as their previous releases, samey visuals. I was specifically looking for an improvement here because it's one thing they really got wrong, and I didn't see it, even early on. I did look out for it, I do have experience of the game to back up my claims. You can 'set the record straight' as much as you like, that to me is typical of the developer, and puts me right off the game.


    "Some might be disappointed, as you are, and some may not, as i'm not. WoW has controls down pat. No question. So why not reuse them? Would you prefer Mythic to implement a completely different control scheme, just for that sake alone? Listen to what youre saying. "

    Why don't you listen to what I'm saying. The controls are just part of what I was talking about. It *is* wow, everything is the same, not just the controls. The controls are the same because all the underlying mechanics are the same, the interface is the same. It's wow.

    "What, a WoW expansion where all the WAR RvR ideas are implemented? a WoW expansion where you can play a thoroughly EVIL side, not some psuedo-evil, politically correct, side? A WoW expansion where the engine has been upgraded to actually take advantage of todays hardware? "

    They're not WAR rvr ideas, they're Daoc rvr ideas, it's copied almost identically from Daoc. Playing an evil side? Who gives a damn other than hey nonny nonny roleplayer types? Everyone else just plays themselves.

    "Why wouldnt Mythic want to take as much of what makes WoW good and implement it into WAR? Just as Blizzard did from EQ1. Just as SOE did from Meridian 59? "

    Blizzard didn't take much from EQ, that's one of the reasons wow was so successful.

    "From what i've seen so far its been a comfortable, accessible, enjoyable game based on a familiar interface and control scheme. Exactly what I wanted out of it, as i'm sure it will be exactly what other ex-WoW players will want to move onto. Minimal fuss, minimal confusion, straight into the game and the enjoyment. "

    Yeah, more treadmill for the brainless wow zombies to march up, you're showing your true colours now George.

    Oh and on the framerate, it stank for me, mostly when there's people on the screen. Pretty sure that's a network code issue rather than a performance issue, but it got old very quick.
    Edited by 1 at 14/09/08 @ 10:49

  • Krelle #154 3 years ago

    Thought everyone had George on Ignore already.

    Tell you what, I think Slim should join the Ignored. Just as mental to make a long post like that, instead of just letting it go.

  • TriggerHippie #155 3 years ago

    I'm running it with 2gig of ram (ddr333), an 8800gtx and an opteron 175 cpu. Max settings, zero framerate issues. Its a good game, just not everyones cup of tea obviously.
    Edited by 2 at 14/09/08 @ 22:52

  • Vandrius #156 3 years ago

    One thing I'm a tad disappointed about is the comment about "Damage X debuff Y"...

    Its not like any other MMORPG in a fantasy setting has got better than that (eg, WoW).

    In fact, it has a number of extremely nice abilities: Knockbacks (not sure any other has these?), knockdowns, GTAoE, Turrets. It has alot more ability variation than most. Yes, alot of them are damage/debuff related, but lets be honest - that has to be the case.

    The greatest thing by far imho is the fact that you dont need to buy (insert spell/ability here) Level 4 to upgrade it. Buy it once, and it scales. Hurrah!

  • Wempler #157 3 years ago

    That also means that there isn't much to look forward to for each level.

  • Avaloner #158 3 years ago

    Truth is many people see Warhammer as a threat to WoW. They are afraid that WAR will manage to do what no other MMO did in these past years and topple the current king over. I am quite sure that is not going to happen. Regardless, I believe that many MMOs can co-exist.

    I am an avid WoW player. Played the game for 3 years but stopped 4 months ago since I needed a break. Played Vanguard for a bit since then and loads of non-MMO games. It will be very hard (if not impossible) for WAR to be as good as WoW in its current state. Nonetheless I ordered the game and look forward to it. Why? I need a change. As good as WoW is it does get stale eventually. Everything does. I made the conscious decision of playing WAR over the WotLK expansion because I yearn for total change. I am sure I will eventually play WoW again some day even if I get to stick to WAR. I can imagine myself playing the two games on alternating months.

    All this WAR hate is uncalled for. If you still love the MMO you are playing then stick to it. Why even consider WAR? If you are unsatisfied or plain need to get into something new, WAR looks like a good place to start afresh.
    Edited by 1 at 15/09/08 @ 09:18

  • Mooks #159 3 years ago

    WAR is more fun than WoW if you enjoy social interation, PVP and group gameplay. If you like being in small groups or large raids in a mainly PVE enviroment then WoW is perfect for you. WAR is not trying to be WoW its doing its own thing.

  • SleepyMagpie #160 3 years ago

    "All this WAR hate is uncalled for. If you still love the MMO you are playing then stick to it. Why even consider WAR? If you are unsatisfied or plain need to get into something new, WAR looks like a good place to start afresh."

    Just like you, I am interested in other MMOG's and look around and at them when a new one appears. If it's good, I might even take a brief hiatus and go there for a "vacation". If it's REALLY good it might become my new MMOG home.

    That is why we consider WAR, played the beta, etc.. I, for one, did not write anything about WAR that amounts to hate. I did however, write that WAR is not deserving an 8/10 score, and I stand by that. It has potential, but too many flaws and outdated engine mechanisms at the time being to warrant an 8, which is after all, a very good score, and should be reserved for accomplished games. 9's are for pure excellence, and 10's barely exist.

    So to all you who like WAR at this moment; good for you. But don't you dare tell us to shut up when we voice our, just as legitimate, opinions.

    There's been just a tad too many arrogant fanboys in this thread.

  • George-Roper #161 3 years ago

    /peers back in

    @Wempler

    "That also means that there isn't much to look forward to for each level"

    Apart from a unique Ability, Morale or Tactic 'ability', trained at almost each of the 40 levels, you mean? There are about 5, distinct, levels between 1 and 40 that you don't get anything new.

    What he said was, ability effects scale with your level. He didn't say that you get all your abilities at level 1 and then never get another ability.

    /steps back out
    Edited by 1 at 15/09/08 @ 19:27

  • whocares #162 3 years ago

    Was this website around when WoW came out? If not then this is not a good review. When WoW came out it was worse then this and was down for days for fixes. So before this biased reviewer reviews games he should get it straight.
    Edited by 1 at 15/09/08 @ 22:33

  • tktezuka #163 3 years ago

    Being from the U.S, I'm sure i have not experienced the painful flaws of the game that all of you euro players have, however it seems very good and well done to me so far. You need to remember, this game shouldn't only be compared to what WoW is right now, but to what WoW was when it first came out. If you ask me, WAR destroys WoW in terms of release(i get to play in the head start tomorrow so I will be sure to update you all.

  • comedian #164 3 years ago

    I'm having a great time with my Marauder.

    Well worth a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.
    Edited by 1 at 15/09/08 @ 23:33

  • RaistlinMaj #165 3 years ago

    So, after going through all 166 comments (as of this moment), I really wanted to quickly voice my opinion, despite probably never coming back to look into these threads. I played World of Warcraft for 3+ years, from the day it released, I am not a fanboy of either WoW or Warhammer, I understand the concepts behind both, and think both are well crafted in what they are attempting to accomplish. However I think Warhammer as a MUCH larger up-side to it than World of Warcraft ever did from launch. WoW undoubtedly did well in creating a fun experience, but all throughout the years, has never really accomplished in bringing us something NEW. Everything seems to be an update of what they brought us previously, that is all. WOW new 25-man instances to go run in, when most people didn't see the last, another 5 hour raid, for 4 minute boss fights to get 3 items. How can you honestly come in here and tell me this game does not bring about a better experience. Yeah, WoW has better combat animations (as of now) but that's all it has accomplished in its existance.

    Also: Someone mentioned earlier that WoW released with PLENTY of high-end PvE content to keep players busy and variety in gameplay.

    INCORRECT. While I agree WoW's animations were pretty strong, it was no way near as polished as it is now, and people need to stop looking at it so. Sides were unbalanced, skill trees, most were useless, and even now it's filled with cookie-cutter trees, classes were unbalanced, there was no end-game content to speak of outside of UBRS runs (1 instance? 1?) Dire Maul, Scholomance, Stratholme, Molten Core... all of these instances were added months after release. Nothing existed in this game, it was done for DAYS on end while they tried to fix servers, fix bugs.

    I've played countless MMO's in my time, spending most of it with WoW, and this game has the largest looking UPSIDE to it in any MMO i've seen from release. A lot of you are just still burnt by Age of Conan (as was I, though I never got to experience it pre-release to see what it was like... It was all word of mouth from a friend). Do I think this is a WoW killer? No. I honestly don't think this game will ever get to the 10 million (box sales people not current subscriptions) mark, but that's just because I think WoW actually killed the MMO market for people. It sucked people in, gave a lot a bad taste, and turned them off to the possibility of many other MMO's succeeding. Others are fixated on the polished game that it (or other MMO's) has become has kept people sucking at its teet afraid to expereince something new.

    Get over yourselves, MMO fans and all. You even come in here yourselves talking about how broken your game was long ago, and now it is fixed. Warhammer can do that with your issues as well. It will be a quality MMO worthwhile to check out, and in the time I got to experience it, was a lot of fun. I look forward to seeing any of you in-game tomorrow and beyond!
    Edited by 3 at 16/09/08 @ 04:09

  • Abriael #166 3 years ago

    Personally I find this review quite completely off mark, it seems that the reviewer hasn't really tried extensively the parts of the game he criticizes (for instance crafting) and that has been skewed quite a lot by the low numbers of the european beta. One would think that a professional reviewer would be able to look a tad beyond that.

    The impression I had is that the reviewer was trying excessively hard to find something to criticize, often artificially turning positive assets into flaws.

    I've played the beta for a whole year, and I can definately say that the game is extremely solid, fun, with a GREAT endgame (and yes, there are quite a lot of dungeons too, maybe the reviewer didn't play enough to notice them?) and the world design is entirely awesome. Finally, the game is basically the MMORPG to reach the shelves with the most and most varied content at release in the entire hostory of the genere.

    Anyway, to offer a counterpoint, here's my personal review. Careful because it's quite long:
    http://cl assygamer.blogspot.com/2008/08/...

    You'll find links to ton of in game movies and pictures in the same blog.
    Edited by 1 at 16/09/08 @ 01:55

  • RaistlinMaj #167 3 years ago

    Thanks for your post Abriael, wow, from what you say there seems to be a lot more to this game than I initially got to see from my 2-day beta test... I am extremely excited, sounds crazyily overwhelming, though so was every other MMO at start...

  • HyperShadow #168 3 years ago

    I started the Head start yesterday, three times. Seems whenever I select another server, it proceeds to delete my previous character without warning. In the character field on the server list, it shows 0 characters. Has anyone else had this problem? Because I'm scared now to choose a different server to try an Order alt and lose my level 6 Witch Elf.

  • sixcer #169 3 years ago

    I've read a lotta comments in this thread, and the review, all after i tried the open beta since playin from open beta start til the end. I have played WoW for several years, done a ton of pvp and arena, but well, dont have the time to do upper end 25 man raids and totally absorb myself in the arena due to my 2nd shift job and family. I played EQ 1 for several years, played LotRO for a bit too, which i enjoyed, but switched to my rl friend's server on WoW where they played Horde and became totally immersed. We did a huge amount of pvp, which was my basis for wantiong to try this game. Anyways...

    I am so pumped about playin this dam game after tryin it, my priest in WoW now sits in the World Ends Tavern while i type about this game, WAR. I had a lotta fun, solo, and especially, especially (!) as a dark elf witch elf in their tier 1 rvr scenario. The fact that both sides can get blown away by Khaine's wrath was pretty kool, imo, nice add there, totally unexpected and refreshing. I felt as though i pawned a vast amount of my oppenents, but yet was balanced when i came across the high elf shadow warriors ( dam them!) But hey, gotta die sometime! Was a lotta fun. Choppy, laggy yes (i ended up turning down my settings and then had no probs). But, i say if anyone remembers PoK from EQ1, zomg...War is not...not that bad hehe. My comp is very good, might need a better graphics card set up, which i wanted anyways. But anyways...i went into this with an open mind, like im sure many peeps have.

    I came out looking forward to this game moreso than i have WotLK...i dunno. Time for a change maybe, for me anyways...yes. I was thinking long term as in, end game-ish as to how badass this could be with the city fights and such. I love pvp (rvr), hell even xbox games, Halo, Crimson Skies, ya know, lotta fun to take on real peeps...and to try this in a new setting with some toons that i think are pretty unique compared to what i have seen (as ive stated in my exp), this looks to be an exciting new challenge, and to get into something like this from the start well, thats worth my money, thats just my opinion and i hope peeps can keep an open mind with all thats coming, cause ide like to play along side the lot of ya, or...maybe kill some of yaz hehe. Have fun either way :)

  • paulf #170 3 years ago

    @ HyperShadow i thought that had happened to me, but then i created another character and the old one was still there, presented on a sort of character carousel

  • HyperShadow #171 3 years ago

    @paulf

    Hm, I'll have a look tonight, but its kind of odd that it didn't say that there was a character on the server list for the ones I had previously created.

  • Abriael #172 3 years ago

    One of the things that I forgot to write in my own review (and that most people forget to mention, despite it being a subtle, but quite important quality of the game) is that, due to the chance to enter RVR right from the start and the humongous amount and variety of thinsg to do as you progress trough levels, you'll log off every night with the feeling you accomplished something. In 99% of MMORPGS, leveling is more or less a farming run to the endgame. When you turn off your PC youjust think "I can't wait for when I'll be level X!". In warhammer when you turn off your PC, you'll probably feel satisfied and think "yay, I got level 12!"
    Every level you earn, every tome unlock, every piece of equipment conquered, every scenario or open RvR battle you win, feels rewarding in itself, instead than just another little step in the rush for the endgame. Sure, there's anticipation dfor new content that awaits later in the game, but it's counterbalanced and made sweeter by a nice level of satisfaction.

    My final point, is that the review we're commenting fails in noticing that the game is definately not a step short of true greatness. It's already a few steps ahead. The world isn't as streamlined as it's painted there (exploration, even of enemy zones, is encouraged and rewarded. It doesn't take much to notice it, and we're talking about 40 beautifully designd areas, bigger and better than most competition at launch), social hubs are definately present (Chapters, warcamps and the capital itself, which is necessary for tons of things, maybe when the reviewer played th capital was just rank 1 and as such had lots of it's features locked?). Forced storytelling? Did we play the same game? Warhammer's quests sport what's probably the best writing in the genre, and the setting is one of the most engaging fantasy backgrounds ever written.
    Ultimately, EVERY MMORPG out there is highly dependant on it's population. WOW, AoC, down to every Asian MMO under the virtual sun, you won't have as much fun in an underpopulated server. But the fact that they didn't invite millions of people in the beta, expecially in Europe, doesn't mean that the game's servers won't be well populated. Even just the colectors' edition headstart (which means a very limited number of people) had a very healthy population, with fast scenario queues and a lot of people around. So there's no reason to predict underpopulated servers. EA distributed 1.500.000 copies at launch. Which is more than any MMO in history, and Mythic has a track record of providing a ton of content down the road.

    WAR's future (and present) looks bright, very bright, and my biggest gripe about this review is that it doesn't show that. We aren't talking about a new kid on the block with a sling challenging the Blizzard Behemoth, We're talking about one of the most veteran developers in the genre's history backed by one of the biggest economic and marketing dinosaurs in the market.
    Edited by 4 at 16/09/08 @ 11:47

  • paulf #173 3 years ago

    @ HyperShadow - yeah i dont think it was listed on the server list, but i created another char and there the old one was - in the character carousel - one think they could fix though is having to agree to the t&c's everytime you boot the game !

  • FranticFire #174 3 years ago

    @Hypershadow

    Its a glitch. The server list says 0 characters but they will still be there. Just remember which server your characters were on.

    Overall this is a fine game. Having played WoW, LothR and AoC this game is in very familiar territory. I finally got fed up with WoW as I didn't want to spend all my waking life in raid groups trying to get that last piece for the armour set. I also hope that Mythic don't listen to everyone and try to re-balance the differant classes in the first few days, which is what happened with AoC. Hopefully this will not happen to WAR, but we shall see as it is very early days in the life of an MMO. As people have already said it took Blizzard about a year to get everything near enough right.

    Just a shame that Blizzard have brought forward the release date of WotLK to 13 November. That will probably kill WAR stone dead. As much as I like WAR I will not be able to resist buying WotLK and just know I'll get hooked into WoW once again.

  • spudsbuckley #175 3 years ago

    Jesus, that review is poor. It pretty much describes the game as being a simplified, samey pile of crap, that relies too heavily on grouping and then turns around and gives it an 8/10

    0_o

  • Abriael #176 3 years ago

    @FranticFire: i wouldn't count so much on the ability of WOTLK to kill or even damage WAR. Most of WoW's players are entirely sick of the re-heated soup blizzard serves them with every expansion and the game feels as old as it looks. Also, a big portion of WoW's PvP community is (rightfully) pissed at Blizzard's decision to allow PvE to PvP transfers. Most of the ones that plan on staying on WoW probably won't try other games and won't buy Warhammer at all. On the other hand, i'm pretty confident in Warhammer's ability to retain the ones that made the jump. It's an extremely solid game with a marketing giant backing it. No WoW challenger had those charactersistics since when wow came out.

    @spudsbuckley: The review is extremely poor, but that's because it describes (wrongly) the game like that. It's an extremely oversimplified view by someone that should have given a much better and longer look to the game before even putting his fingers on the keyboard. The score is even too low (even not considering how senseless it is to give a score in a preview)
    Edited by 2 at 16/09/08 @ 18:10

  • orakio #177 3 years ago

    I share Oli's opinions and see were he's coming from on various areas.
    It's not easy being in the closed beta for so long, having seen the game evolving from one end to the other and back, and still have an objective and fresh opinion about it all. I must admit I was tired of WAR at the end of closed beta. A years' worth of ups and downs, repeatedly seeing the same content handled differently... it takes a lot of enthusiasm out of you, and replaces it by scepticism.
    Luckily the guild aspect returns to me in Live, and that makes up for a lot of things I missed :-)

  • scyld #178 3 years ago

    @ SleepyMagpie

    That is why we consider WAR, played the beta, etc.. I, for one, did not write anything about WAR that amounts to hate. I did however, write that WAR is not deserving an 8/10 score, and I stand by that. It has potential, but too many flaws and outdated engine mechanisms at the time being to warrant an 8, which is after all, a very good score, and should be reserved for accomplished games. 9's are for pure excellence, and 10's barely exist.

    I find this a little surprising. WAR is an extremely polished, well-developed MMO. Keep in mind that there are ALWAYS bugs, balancing issues, and the like whenever any MMO goes Gold. For WoW, there were even more class-balance issues and bugs at the beginning of the game than there are for WAR. Considering that the game has just barely gone Gold, the classes are remarkably balanced and the game is incredibly polished.

    Also, what is so outdated about the engine? If you're talking about the graphics engine, MMOs tend to be a little less graphically intensive compared to other games. However, it's not clear to me exactly what you mean, since you said "engine mechanisms."

    In addition, I would highly recommend that people read RaistlinMaj's assessment of the review. Though I don't agree with every point he mentions, it is probably one of the best comments regarding this review of any of the 180 posted here (including mine).


    NOTE that this is a criticism more of the review itself rather than an apology for WAR. I am refraining from criticizing WAR in my comment, though I do think it is not above criticism, since I am mainly focusing on how poor of a job the critic has done and hat an incorrect impression it gives of the game

    Anyways, I'm not going to say anything about the number score given in this review, since it's hard to judge what that means. However, I get the distinct impression that most of the reviewers criticisms are not based on the merits/demerits of the game on its own, but rather how WoW-like it is. In other words, the article reads to me like he's criticizing the game for not being more WoW-like.

    My main summary of my criticisms against his article: he's making the single greatest mistake that he mentions in the article himself-- "But we're forgetting ourselves; we're forgetting those three letters, scribbled repetitively in blood on every loading screens. We're forgetting the WAR." He's painting WAR as a flawed PvE-oriented game rather than a well-crafted RvR-oriented game, in addition to simply demanding that its elements be lifted directly from WoW for no sane reason that I can tell.

    For example, he says that there are too many trainers and rally masters, too much equipment being given to players, and too much streamlining in the leveling process that there's no reason to visit each factions' cities or to backtrack. He also says that there isn't enough "silliness" or "the luxury to waste your time in a world you love." He says that quests are too much overshadowed by public quests and scenarios, lamenting that quests aren't even necessary to level up. He even criticizes the fact that there is "too much equipment" and that "incremental upgrades are just an hour or two away.

    What kind of criticisms are these? WAR is simply a different animal from WoW. The leveling zones are there to give you a taste of each faction's flavor as you level up and learn how your characters' skills work, and yes, of course each zone is an island unto itself so as to assist the character in coming closer and closer to the endgame. It's just different, not worse I, for one, am glad that I'm not forced to go back to each of the capital cities every time I want to do anything. And no, WAR isn't a silly game like WoW is-- it has a different flavor, a different character to it. Also, there is less motivation to "waste your time" in WAR since WAR has dispensed with the vast number of the time sinks that WoW has put in place to water down its mostly PvE-oriented content. So what if quests, relatively speaking, take a back seat to other, more RvR-oriented, forms of leveling? What could possibly be wrong with that? Would anyone be so brash as to criticize Half-Life for not having the abundance of pink demons from Doom?

    And as regards questing, I simply don't see how WoW's quests are that much better than WAR's. Granted, some of them are a much more sophisticated, and the monster mobs are a more varied. Then again, most of WoW's quests are still the standard "kill x monsters" or "loot x things from x monsters" or occasionally "collect x from the environment.

    The crafting system is more than perfunctory in WAR. It just isn't as big a deal as in WoW. The author of this article failed to mention the positive aspect of this, and that is that it greatly decreases the need to endlessly grind for materials or gold to pay to other characters to craft for you. This is not a real flaw in the game, but rather a shifting of the focus to other aspects of the game.

    The one positive comparison to WoW is with regards to WAR Scenarios vs. WoW Battlegrounds: "as good as WOW's handful of Battlegrounds are, this lavish banquet of PVP action shames them." The characterization of WoW's BGs as good makes me laugh. Most players recognize that they are dull, repetitive, and poorly designed. As for WAR's scenarios being better, they better damn well be-- WAR is an RvR game. This statement of the critic's makes it abundantly clear to me that he just doesn't get that WAR is RvR and WoW isn't.

    And WARs mechanics are too gimmicky, and character abilities too generic? How is a spell "doing x damage and applying y debuff" any more generic than many of WoW's character abilities? I mean what, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Frost Bolt, Corruption, Shadow Bolt, Fireblast, Sinister Stirke, Mortal Strike, etc. are all really so much less generic? I really just don't know what to say about this odd criticism. Maybe he has a point, but he certainly didn't state it well enough.

    I don't think WAR is perfect at all. However, I hope that this review gets swamped out of relevancy by reviews from other sites, because it is based on an absurd and unspoken premise, that WAR should be WoW to be good. It is a different animal and should be judged on its own merits and flaws.

  • Tyranix #179 3 years ago

    It's a great game and has a ridiculously smooth launch for an MMO. I play it smoothly on a four year old pc with 1 gig of ram with hardly any frame rate issues. I think 8 is fair for the state it is in at the moment.

  • 1simen1 #180 3 years ago

    Gaol, is it your new hobby to try and take any new MMO apart?
    You were all over the last big one AOC, and now you are all over WAR.

    I am getting close to say like the "mythbusters" : Myth confirmed, you are doing viral marketing for Blizzard...

  • MaxiSleep #181 3 years ago

    After my first few hours trying 6 different classes I was amazed at how poor my initial impression is

    The animation is TERRIBLE. I am sure people who are coming from Eq2 may find it acceptable but it really is last gen.

    The graphics are at best adequate.

    And the combat is just wrong wrong wrong.

    I has paid me cash so I will be trying to find a class I can enjoy but at the moment my chances of going past the intial 30 days are very slim.

    Word of advice to developers. Starting zones MATTER.

  • George-Roper #182 3 years ago

    @MaxiSleep

    You bang on about how this is crap, or that is shit, yet you then continue about 'still trying to find a class that you enjoy'. If there's so much fundamentally wrong with WAR, what fucking difference will a class decision make? Or do I smell Troll spoor?

    Yes, there are animation glitches. I dont like how my character flops about after being floored by a Troll, until the stun wears off, but it will be addressed and isn't anything near game-breaking.

    The graphics are leagues ahead of the 'big hitter' and even EQ2, which I consider to have a very nice graphics engine. I stumbled onto a keep in WAR earlier today that was so magnificent (and Chaos controlled) I binned the UI and took screenshots, rather than be worried about the pasting I was about to get from the players and guards.

    That armour is actually placed onto your body and isnt just an extension of the textures, makes the player characters stand out in a marvelous manner. MILES ahead of anything else. Adding dye into the mix and ive yet to see ONE other player who looks like I do. Not a single one. Not like the cookie-cutter dolls that run around WoW from levels 1-20.

    Combat is wrong, wrong, wrong you say? And yet ive had some of the best PvP fun ive ever had in an online game, with WAR. Guess what? At no point did I stop and think 'hmmm, the combat is crap'. Not once. Not even when I was having my head smashed in by a hulking, clanking, armoured Chaos Warrior who actually LOOKED solid, as well as actually BEING solid, rather than some walking ghost of a Christmas tree in WoW, with zero sense of solidity or presence.

    Of course, you paid the cash (apparently) so you have complete right to state your opinion. Its just that your opinion is wrong, which is kinda sad, with WAR being as much fun as it patently is to so many other people.

  • MaxiSleep #183 3 years ago

    @George Roper

    You will note that I am saying that the initial zones are really poor. Obviously this may change which is why I have caveated all my comments as "initial impressions".

    The animations are rubish. They simply do not convey any sense of linkage with the action. And the spell animations (so far) are very damp squib. Good spell animations are very important to getting your sense of timimg correct, otherwise you spend your time looking at the cooldown bar.

    As to melee combat - yeuck. It suffers from a really poorly animated cooldown bar and again has no "feel". A bad cooldown bar combined with poor animation means you spend your time looking at the coodown bar rather then reacting to the envionment and mashing buttons. It is not too my taste. Worst offender for me so far is Sword Master which really looks Beta.

    The graphics at best match WoW in terms of quality or consistency. This is a very disapointing given how long the game is in dev. The texture resolution in particular is terrible even with all sliders set to full.

    The only class so far that I have enjoyed is the witch elf. The combat animations gel well with the actions. Wish I was not forced to take a female toon but I can live with it. The writing and the general feel of the Dark elf campaign is miles ahead of the Greenskins or the Chaos side. The forces of order seam on both servers I have created to be suffering a bit in that they are not as popular and the writing is pretty turgid. This is clearly a much bigger problem for War then Ali v Horde on WoW but it is early days.

    So at the moment Witch Elf it is for me - but I really cannot understand why they did not make the initial experience better.



  • gingerlink #184 3 years ago

    If you had this kind of PvP in WoW, you'd no doubt have horde dominating.

    I definately got the feel from Leipzig (one of the few conferences held in english, wooo!), the destruction is just going to overthrow everything else...

  • George-Roper #185 3 years ago

    @MaxiSleep

    "You will note that I am saying that the initial zones are really poor. Obviously this may change which is why I have caveated all my comments as "initial impressions"

    Complete bollocks. The starting zones are some of the most fun places i've ever started a character in, in any MMORPG. The fact that youre by and large thrust straight into the chaos, rather than being told to hunt X rabbits, or collect Y rabbit ears, just shows what approach Mythic have taken with it.

    The first time I stumbled onto the burning windmill, on Empire, was nothing short of stunning and theres nothing like that sense of scope in WoW, at any level under 60.


    "The animations are rubish. They simply do not convey any sense of linkage with the action. And the spell animations (so far) are very damp squib. Good spell animations are very important to getting your sense of timimg correct, otherwise you spend your time looking at the cooldown bar"

    All MMORPGs require players to look at the action and the hotbar. Every. Single. One. Otherwise all you're doing is spamming keys waiting for the refresh to occur. There is no difference here than in WoW.


    "As to melee combat - yeuck. It suffers from a really poorly animated cooldown bar and again has no "feel". A bad cooldown bar combined with poor animation means you spend your time looking at the coodown bar rather then reacting to the envionment and mashing buttons. It is not too my taste. Worst offender for me so far is Sword Master which really looks Beta."

    See above comment and remember, you're talking about a game which has been live for how long? Just consider the problems WoW had when that was released and compare to how solid WAR actually is, right at this moment. As ive said in another thread, Mythic have ultra-solid foundations with WAR. They can concentrate on bug fixes straight from the offset, rather than worry about how wobbly it will make the rest of the game.


    "The graphics at best match WoW in terms of quality or consistency. This is a very disapointing given how long the game is in dev. The texture resolution in particular is terrible even with all sliders set to full"

    Complete and utter bollocks. To imply that they match WoW, in any regard, is a joke. Either you're running on a poor PC or you've actually not played the game.

    The graphics in WAR are so detailed, in terms of artistic quality and textures, and that I end up taking more and more screenshots, almost every session. For comparison, I never took one screenshot of my WoW characters until I hit the armour sets.

    The fact that WoW armour is by and large just a texture replacement on the WoW player models, at the lower levels, proves how piss poor they are. To date, on my WAR character (level 13), i've got wristguards, headpiece, shoulder and a new tunic, all of which actually add more, distinctly different, armour to the character model and most of which are dyed. In fact, even by just level 13 ive had three different types of shoulder armour. In addition ive had a couple of baubles which also attach onto the extra armour. So i've got a shoulder piece with a little bauble hanging off it. Detail that WoW can only dream about.

    I've not encountered one other player character who looks like I do. Not a single one. Every level 1-50 character in WoW, of the same race, looks near identical.

    PvP objectives are fucking awesome. Not some poor, short, tower but a thundering, tall, keep with parapets, solid doors that need to be battered down and all sorts of other goodies. Again, they look solid . Thats what WAR impresses me most with. The game-world feels solid, thus feels tangible.

  • Yoghurt_Pot #186 3 years ago

    i must say in my first hour i felt a bit detached from the game, not knowign the interface or where i was, but it all slotted into place very quickly (far quicker than when i played daoc).

    im still only sratching the surface but i dont feel like i need to rush to max level to start playing the "proper" end game. I already feel like im participating (and that in a nutshell is why i can see myself playing this game for years to come).

    Edited by 1 at 20/09/08 @ 17:30

  • MaxiSleep #187 3 years ago

    @George Roper

    "Complete bollocks. The starting zones are some of the most fun places i've ever started a character in, in any MMORPG. The fact that youre by and large thrust straight into the chaos, rather than being told to hunt X rabbits, or collect Y rabbit ears, just shows what approach Mythic have taken with it. "

    Well that is note the case for me for a lot of the areas. The Dark elf campaign though is much better then the others I think so far. I had not played the dark elf characters when I posted first

    "See above comment and remember, you're talking about a game which has been live for how long?"

    My experience with MMos is that if it is broke at launch it is a very long time if ever that stuff is fixed. Wow was better at launch then War is. I am happy with that viewpoint.

    "Complete and utter bollocks. To imply that they match WoW, in any regard, is a joke. Either you're running on a poor PC or you've actually not played the game."

    To expand my point a little. In Wow there is a very fine "clock" style update on the animation on the hotbar. You can glance for an instant at the hotbar and see how your cooldowns are running because the movement draws your attention. Without that effect in War I find that I have to keep rechecking. Poor combat animation also increases the need for "lookdown"


    "Complete and utter bollocks. To imply that they match WoW, in any regard, is a joke. Either you're running on a poor PC or you've actually not played the game."

    Look at the hillside textures in the Chaos start area. They are absoulutely dreadful. The draw distance is tiny. On a 512mb 8800 Gs in a pc with 4 gigs of Ram. The ships in the Dark elf starting area are no better then for example the Night elf ship models or the blood elf model ships in the sunwell Isle area. Plus the usual screen tearing and no option that I can see for anti aliasing. (welcome to be wrong on this one). What War has over WoW is a more traditional art style then I am sure many will prefer. But from a technical engine point of view I can see very little difference bar the shadowing.

    It really is unfortunate that you are resorting to accusations of Trolling or indeed fabrication when someone disagrees with your viewpoint. Yes I did buy the game george and I object to your accusations of lying.

    And I now have a second class which I like on the Chaos side - the Chosen. Still nothing on the order side though






  • George-Roper #188 3 years ago

    @MaxiSleep

    First off, sorry for taking an aggressive stance.

    "My experience with MMos is that if it is broke at launch it is a very long time if ever that stuff is fixed. Wow was better at launch then War is. I am happy with that viewpoint"

    Mythic are an experienced MMORPG developer. Ive had similar experiences to you, where bugs havent been fixed for an age, but they have most often been with SoE games. Namely Vanguard and EQ2. Be honest though, theres nothing game-breaking in WAR at the moment, is there?


    "To expand my point a little. In Wow there is a very fine "clock" style update on the animation on the hotbar. You can glance for an instant at the hotbar and see how your cooldowns are running because the movement draws your attention. Without that effect in War I find that I have to keep rechecking. Poor combat animation also increases the need for "lookdown""

    Yes but, again, to be fair WoW has been out for years and years. Blizz have had a long time to refine all aspects of that game right down to a fine art, of that I have no quibble. However, as above, whatever problems you see there, are not game-breaking. The cooldowns are displayed, with a seconds timer on the button. If this isnt obvious enough, just customize the UI and enlarge the hotbars so its more obvious. I'm having serious problems seeing what the major crisis is here...


    "Look at the hillside textures in the Chaos start area. They are absoulutely dreadful. The draw distance is tiny. On a 512mb 8800 Gs in a pc with 4 gigs of Ram. The ships in the Dark elf starting area are no better then for example the Night elf ship models or the blood elf model ships in the sunwell Isle area. Plus the usual screen tearing and no option that I can see for anti aliasing. (welcome to be wrong on this one). What War has over WoW is a more traditional art style then I am sure many will prefer. But from a technical engine point of view I can see very little difference bar the shadowing."

    I had exactly the same problem and after a very brief Warhammer Alliance forum search, discovered it to be the VRAM allocation. Set the slider to maximum rather than default, then more textures will get loaded in from the offset. Additionally I have a 786mb 8800GTX, which may just manage the textures better due to more ram, which is why I don't see any of it, any longer. /shrug

    V-sync can be set in the Nvidia control panel and works flawlessly. As do AA and AS settings. I'm running at x16 AS an X8 AA.


    "It really is unfortunate that you are resorting to accusations of Trolling or indeed fabrication when someone disagrees with your viewpoint. Yes I did buy the game george and I object to your accusations of lying. And I now have a second class which I like on the Chaos side - the Chosen. Still nothing on the order side though"

    As I said at the start, I apologise for taking an aggressive stance. WAR represents everything thats good about MMORPG development and it pains me, sometimes, that when a good developer like Mythic comes along and releases something of this quality, the haters just jump onboard and point out problems and bugs without also considering just how well established other MMORPGs are and what their status was at release too.

    I hope you come to enjoy WAR, find a class thats suitable and have fun.

  • RaistlinMaj #189 3 years ago

    @ Maxisleep

    "My experience with MMos is that if it is broke at launch it is a very long time if ever that stuff is fixed. Wow was better at launch then War is. I am happy with that viewpoint."


    Come on, are you kidding me?! did you even play that game at launch? instable awful servers, glitches/bugs galore, plenty of skills that were completely broken and didn't work, no content to speak of, and days spent with down servers and nothing to play. How could you tell me that WoW was a better game at launch than WAR was. How extensively have you even played WAR? Go check out the later content in WAR then talk to me again.

  • Government #190 3 years ago

    I'm just saying that the whole war vs woar seemed like a fanboy ranting,not trying to be a butthead!

    Next, i am someone who reads the reviews before i buy the game, after reading this review i think he did a good job w/ review. I won't be buying this one it looks like another conan.


    I'm out

  • bigbadbeasty #191 3 years ago

    "Next, i am someone who reads the reviews before i buy the game, after reading this review i think he did a good job w/ review. I won't be buying this one it looks like another conan."

    How on earth can you tell if it is a good review if you haven't owned or played the game? I have tried to stay outta this thread, but that comment is crazy.

    From what I played of Conan, I can confirm that WAR will not follow Conan's lead... into the sewer...

  • UncleLou #192 3 years ago

    ""My experience with MMos is that if it is broke at launch it is a very long time if ever that stuff is fixed. Wow was better at launch then War is. I am happy with that viewpoint."

    Granted, I've only played WAR since Friday, and haven't been in the beta, but it seems to be in a much better state to me than WoW was at launch.

  • AccidentProne #193 3 years ago

    Coming from and endgame WoW guild that recently split, I only picked this up to tide me over until the release of WotLK, but based on my first week playing here, I'm not sure I'll bother going back to WoW in the near future, if at all.

    To be honest, I didn't have particularly high expectations after being burnt by so many new MMO's in the past, but this feels different. The public questing system is fantastic and I'm sure it's something we're going to see in a lot of other games soon. The lack of "kill 12 badger!" type quests is refreshing too, though I'm sure some exist. I also really like the way the the RvR confilct is central to the game. PvP isn't something I've really bothered with since DAoC but I spent most of my weekend in WAR in the tier 1 scenarios or rvr zones.

    I think what I'm trying to say is, if you give this game a chance, you'll have blast. The review isn't all that bad anyway is it? I'd always considered an 8/10 a decent score.

    On the negative side, I'm getting kinda sick of the 30minute queues to log in, though I guess that's my fault for choosing destruction. Oh and it's also pretty lame that they censored the opening cinematic to get around German video game laws, though this is hardly a big deal.

  • Chimpy #194 3 years ago

    I've been playing WAR this weekend and I think it's pretty good. It has some interesting ideas but it does lack polish in some areas especially the controls and animations. The public quests are interesting but are in reality just a repeating group quest without a formal party. The ones I've seen have turned into mad free-for-alls. Rather than promoting social interactions it just encourages players to act solo.

    I do believe people root for WAR (or other recent MMOs) not so much for the quality of the game, but because they want to "de-throne" WoW. Some people will always love the underdog.

  • Lady_Seph #195 3 years ago

    "Mythic has dutifully done everything it needs to to compete with Blizzard's jack of all trades and master of most"

    you got it wrong..it should be "master of none"

    I quit WoW about 6 months ago and will never go back because...well it's not good and I speak from experience. Yes it had a hayday of about a year but those days are gone. Comparing WAR to WoW is stupid.

    Can I ask whoever wrote this, have you played WoW for any length of time at all? because I played it for a long time, and many other MMOs before it. Do you now what you're talking about at all here?

    Lets talk about WoW as the primary example since you seem to have chosen to compare it to WAR to it in your review.

    1)WoWs launch was full of bugs...if felt like a continued beta for the first year, but people gave it a chance in the hope it would improve I suppose. Had you been there at the time you probably would have remembered this.

    2)WoW also "borrowed" many of it's game mechanics heavily from other previous MMOs, that is what MMOs do and how they evolve it would seem.

    3) Crafting is woefully bad in WoW, and none consumable craftables have little or no use. crafting is a money and time drain and that is all. WoW does not "do" crafting better than any other MMO. anybody who has played WoW for longer than it takes to reach level cap knows this.

    4)PvP in WoW was something tagged on by Blizzard haphazardly in order to loosely tout it out as a PvP game. It was badly thought out and remains so to this day. Cheating is the norm, exploiting win trading and leeching in arenas and battleground have crippled any honest PvP. The PvP/Arena reward system is horribly flawed and is hated by both those who love PvP and also those who raid for their gear alike. It is a mess.WoW does not do PvP well at all. There are very few Battleground maps and the ones that exist are commonly exploited. Anybody who loves PvP for its own sake eventually gets bored and leaves the game.

    5) PvE in wow is a reputation grind. People ritualistically trawl though daily quests chipping away at their rep bars joylessly for scraps of gold and pointless reputation rewards. People who raid sigh and cry other the fact that you can get gear just as great as theirs by playing 10 arena games a week or buying your way into a team to get equipped. So they spend hours a week raiding then find they still get their butts handed to them by somebody who exploited the PvP system to get their stuff.

    So lets not confuse popularity with quality shall we? Sims 2 sold 100 million copies but you aren't comparing WAR to that are you? (maybe you should)

    WoW caters to the lowest common denominator....you don't need a brain...that is optional...you don't need great skill or an amazing tactical mind in order to get to level cap and kit yourself in epics. Anybody can do it. Some people play because..honestly some of them are just scared to leave.

    Your review is unfair, and I suspect you've had some other ulterior incentive to give this game an 8- because unbiased journalism this is not.

    You'd be qualified to speak about WAR in the same terms as WOW if you played both for four years then started comparing the apple to the orange.

    end.










  • swills #196 3 years ago

    Ok, so here are the unbiased facts from someone who has played WoW at the highest level, and WAR extensively in beta and since release:

    1) WAR runs pretty well for a new MMO. The graphic-design is very good, but it is let down by very clunky animations, and the overall 'feel' is worse than many other games of this type. You never really feel the damage your foes take, unlike in WoW. It's difficult to explain exactly what went wrong here, but combat is very unresponsive and weak. Static screenshots look very good. In action, not so much.

    2) The way information is organised is very good. No more "Where do I go for this quest?!". It's all shown to you. The Tome of Knowledge is very nice. Questing in general is much more pleasant than WoW as there are less grindy quests and WAR makes it easy to figure out what to do and where to go.

    3) Loot is very easy to come by. You participate in public quests and RvR scenarios and basically build up renown (aka Reputation) and this gives you loot. This happens very quickly. It's nice.

    4) Many of the clases are very similar. There may be 20 of them, but a lot of them play almost identically. They could've made more of an effort to make each class unique.

    5) Public quests. These are being lauded a lot as WAR's big new thing, but they are way, way more flawed that people claim. In the starting areas right now you can easily find people doing the initial public quests. Once you move out into the world though it is not the case any more. I'm up to level 12 in the live game and there just isn't anyone to do Public Quests with now. The population is too low and/or spread too thinly. Once people start to get spread out on the levelling curve the only way to do the PQs will be with an actual guild or arranged group which defeats the whole purpose of them in the first place. And that is now - just a week after launch. In 3 months time I can imagine PQs being impossible to do just because there aren't enough players at the same level as you to participate. Why on earth they did not make PQs scale with the number of participants I have no idea. PQs are an amazing idea in theory, but ultimately they fail. I've lost count of how many PQs I've been forced to skip now.

    6) PvP. It's very cool being able to queue for the various PvP scenarios early on in the game and to get XP and loot from them. Right now though, they all seem to be very similar to me. Same games, just different maps basically. Hopefully this changes later in the game. PvP in general is badly let down by the clunky combat and feel of the game just as the PvE side is though.

    Smumary:
    WAR has some very nice ideas. Some very cool ideas. However the actual *playing* of the game leaves a lot to be desired. If you put the ideas in WoW's game engine it would be amazing. As it stands right now, WAR is a nice distraction for a month until WotLK hits but anyone who isn't a total WAR fanboy or WoW hater will just go back to WoW in November as the experience of playing that game is just far superior. It's a shame really. So much promise here, but ultimately let down by very flawed gameplay.
    Edited by 1 at 22/09/08 @ 20:18

  • Chimpy #197 3 years ago

    Here's the deal

    Like PVP? Play WAR

    Like PvE? Play WoW

    Like crafting? Play Everquest 2

    @ Lady_Seph

    WoW PvP epics aren't very good for PvE and most good guilds will reject people that apply that have them. To get the top PvE gear you do need to know your class well and play well in a team. Very few people have Sunwell gear because to be frank most aren't good enough to get into a guild that goes there.

    Also you have to compare WoW now, not 4 years ago. People aren't playing the game of 4 years ago, they are playing it as it is today. It's hard for game developers to catch up but that's how it is.

    This argument will go on for a long time because like and dislike different aspects, and what appeals to one person will be a turn-off for another.

  • Psi #198 3 years ago

    Hi.

    I'm playing WAR and really liking it at the moment. I wasn't going to get the game, mostly because friends were split between the races and server types and it seemed like everyone would be split up all over the place.

    However after having a friend bug the hell outta me, I used his lasses key to sign up and play the game. Ran through some starter quests, got to level 4 or 5 and did some public quests. I found them loads of fun, and I appreciate something said earlier where as the servers mature, there will be less and less people around to help with the public quests. I think less is better at times, last night me and a friend, and a few pickups played a PQ, didn't complete it as we struggled against the last guy as there was a large leap in levels. Found it much more fun as it was a challange.

    The annoying thing about PQ's at launch is it a frenzy, too many people trying to get to the top of the leaderboard. And if you happen to get there the roll can rob you. If you complete the PQ with less people, a higher percentage are rewarded. The XP distribution is also across less people. With the added effort the task will seem more rewarding.

    I don't find the graphics as offensive as many on this thred. My settings are on lowest of the low so I can get a decent framerate in RVR on my laptop.

    For those screaming at each other in this thred, its like takeaway food man, war is indian and wow is chinese. If you try and get everyone to decide on which is best your gonna be here all fucking day. I like lamb passanda and chowmein, fuck off with your arguments on why one is better than the other.

  • knightmt #199 3 years ago

    Can people keep their comments as short as possible, I am way to lazy for this.
    Really enjoyed WAR really hated RvR I was totally but fucked, felt like a fish in a net. Maybe I do not know what is going on.
    Also I have not played any MMOs before but do I have to kill one creature at a time, I have a five foot sword can't I hit everyone in the room. I think I will go back to Final Fantasy, at least I did not have to die trying to use potions.

  • Lemming81 #200 3 years ago

    Been playing this all day. It's great. End of Story.


    And can people stop saying 'pvp=WAR, pve=WoW'?

    PvE in WAR is ten times what it is in WoW. I've not been bored once - jumping into a public quest as I come across them and even the 'standard' quests are more interesting in their execution.

    Long may WAR reign, IMO

  • Jigglybean #201 3 years ago

    This game deserves more like a 6/10. Clearly they have cut corners to get the game out. Lots of placeholders, extremely limited classes/character creation (even more limited than WOW!), AI getting stuck, lack of any serious content. The first quest is 'go and kill xx of these xxx' - pah! AI also has an incredible way of healing. If you take it away from its spawn area, it will run back and go back to 100% health every time. Very annoying.

    The UI is probably the worst in any MMO. WOW might be simple but man, they have their UI down to a fine art. Clicking on items puts them in the chat bar, linking stuff in chat - none of that in WAR.

    However, RvR is awesome. Alot of fun, if you have a good team with you its alot of fun and PvP is 100% better than WOWs flawed effort. Its no great, but given 10 years it might be

  • Frosty840 #202 3 years ago

    WAR's map is bloody horrible, once you leave the starting area, at least for the pretty-people side.

    I know WoW's map is a load of cartoon nonsense, but at least the path was clear and your targets were clearly marked, y'know, as if somebody had told you where they wanted you to go when they gave you your quest.

    I've got five quests at the moment whose aims are "Find some guy and talk to him" and that's ALL THE CLUE I GET.

    I got so lost the other night that I ended up using the rally book simply because I had no idea where to go to even get back.

    I'll play out the month but I'll only resub when it's possible to find out what the hell is going on.

  • Tyedyed #203 3 years ago

    "I've got five quests at the moment whose aims are "Find some guy and talk to him" and that's ALL THE CLUE I GET."

    Errr, your told where to go on the map by the red circles. If youve got a quest in a zone that requires you to leave that zone (and they are usually only quests that ask you to go the next tiers warcamp) then you have a bloody great red cross pointing you in the right direction.

  • RaistlinMaj #204 3 years ago

    @Frosty

    I have to say, I felt the same way you did when I first started the game, I understood the concept of the red circles, but some of the quest I got confused on. After a while however, I have really got into what to read in the quest text, and watching those circles, and haven't had ANY problems questing since, so trust me, look around, read the quest text and you shouldn't have a problem, now I blaze through every quest.

  • paulf #205 3 years ago

    the game has been patched and it looks like they have fixed the animation bug, the fighting feels alot more solid now

  • Cynicalgamer #206 3 years ago

    This is an awful game, one of the worst ever. But lets start at the beginning. This is basically World of Warcraft set in the GamesWorkshop Warhammer universe. The game itself is system hungry and takes several hours to load and update - although much, much quicker than WOW. Graphically nothing sets them apart. Sound - again nothing special or even interesting.

    Gameplay - WoW - nothing special (although to be fair theres nothing else that can be done that WoW hasnt done)

    The Empire / Chaos regions are initailly nice, with some well thought out vistas (the views of the moons are nicely done) but dont change after that and is generally a pain after a while. The Orc(k) region is half finished and looks like someone was using the Lego(tm) creator set to build it. The Elvish region is fully built but hasnt been polished and appears lumpy and dead (as if waiting for the bubble wrap to come off).

    The levelling up is predictable and dull and after a few levels all appeal for continiuing has gone. The much vaunted RvR is terrible and a waste of time -gameplay is simply a frenzy of buttton pressing and mouse clicking for a random outcome.

    The in game quests are terrible and grindy with no sense of achievment. The public quests (in which you team up with others) are just terrible and an utter waste of time. The ingame monsters and creatures are unpleasant and a waste of time.

    The characters are just terrible. You get a lot of choice - warrior, mage, magewarrior or warrior at a distance. Thats all it boils down too.

    The servers are fairly busy, much less bugs than first found (and will get less and less with time). Although you can play for hours and not see anyone (i once played for ten hours and saw two players - on a saturday afternoon)

    Please dont buy this game, or if you do, you will find yourself cancelling your subscription after a few weeks of wasted life.

  • Lemming81 #207 3 years ago

    This game has pulled me back in. It's awesome.

    As a European I highly reccommend downloading a digital-purchased US copy of the game and joining the Oceanic (australian) servers they have there. During our daytime, the servers are packed and the quality of service vs GOA is like night and day.