World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade Review

Still burning, still crusading.

Version tested: PC

A few months ago, World of Warcraft's first full expansion pack was finally unleashed upon the game's millions of players. We opted not to review the entire expansion all at once. Instead, we reviewed the parts of the pack which might sway new players for or against a foray into Blizzard's epic moneyspinner - the new races, new professions and new low-level zones. By and large, what we found was good; if you missed our review at the time, you can click here to check out the solid eight-out-of-ten style of that chunk of the expansion.

The reason we chose not to talk about the higher-level content in the game at that time is straightforward enough - we hadn't seen it all. Ten new levels to advance through, a new continent whose size rivals the launch content of entire rival MMOGs, around twenty new instanced dungeons to kick your guild's backside... Not to mention all manner of changes to how the basic game works. New talent trees! Flying mounts! New crafting recipes and ingredients! Equipment with sockets for stat-boosting gems!

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 1

Prepare to travel through the Dork Portal, brave adventurer!

You certainly can't accuse Blizzard of skimping on the content. The Burning Crusade is enormous, varied and ambitious - which is why we've taken three months to get around to tackling the thorny task of critiquing the high-end content. It's not just that it's taken us three months to feel confident that we've experienced enough of the game to comment. It has also taken three months for The Burning Crusade to bed in.

Three months; for the real impact of the exodus en masse to Outland to be felt across Azeroth. For guilds to develop strategies and routines, for players to learn exploits, tips and tricks. And, of course, for bugs or unfinished features - a temporal, amorphous concept in an MMOG, as opposed to a solid bump in the road in a normal game - to be ironed out or polished up.

Justification over. We're confident that now we can talk about the Burning Crusade as it is, rather than as it promised to be at launch. Of course, if you're a hardcore WoW fan, you're probably one of the two-point-something million people who rushed out to buy the expansion in the first few weeks after launch. You're only reading this for affirmation or outrage; delete as applicable, depending on how you feel about that score you scrolled to the bottom to glance at. However, there are plenty of lapsed WoW players still waiting for Doubting Thomas to stick his fingers in the stigmata and let everyone know if the miracle is for real. We doubted as you do, brothers and sisters. Let's explore the Gospel according to Blizzard together.

Just Like You Imagined

You all know the story, presumably. The twin continents of the world of Azeroth, which have been the home to a truly ludicrous number of hopelessly addicted gamers for the last two years, were once invaded by the demonic hordes of the Burning Legion. You may recall them from the previous stunning installments in the Warcraft strategy game franchise (before it went all new-fangled and Massively Multiplayer on us) - large chaps, hooves, horns, leathery bat wings, burning flames of eternal hatred in their eye sockets. Not hard to spot in a crowd, unless you're in Camden Town on a Saturday evening.

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 2

The first place you end up, Hellfire Peninsula, is a scarred wasteland. We believe they're holding the Olympics here in 2012, actually.

The Burning Crusade sees the races of Azeroth, effectively, taking the fight back to them. Upon the launch of the game, the Dark Portal - a giant and rather foreboding dimensional gateway which has loomed over one of WoW's high-level areas since launch - was opened. After a rather impressive battle - a once-off "world event", so either you were there to see it or you weren't, it's too late now - the Alliance and Horde forces pressed through the portal to the shattered world on the other side, Draenor.

If your eyelids are drooping at all this fantasy nonsense, don't worry. As with all of the rest of World of Warcraft, you can enjoy Outland simply as a procession of new things to kill, if that's your thing. However, for those who have followed the lore of the series so far, it's worth noting that The Burning Crusade is probably the best piece of storytelling Blizzard has done yet.

The stories of the various factions and characters in Outland are intricately intertwined, well presented and are daubed in deft strokes across the entire landscape of the game. The rest of the MMOG genre still has a lot of catch-up to play with Blizzard's seemingly effortless ability to craft a fantasy world that is consistent and intriguing without being overstuffed and pompous. Blizzard borrows heavily from Pratchett in many regards; The Burning Crusade is perfectly comfortable with presenting regal, epic or tragic moments one second, and sending you on quests for ale-sozzled dwarves or introducing you to NPCs called Haris Pilton the next.

Rich storytelling contributes heavily to one of the biggest successes of the Burning Crusade in your early experience with the expansion. From the moment you walk through the Dark Portal - which puts you right into the heart of a fresh surge against the portal by demonic forces - you are bombarded with quests, as a wide variety of characters turn to you for assistance. Each zone of Outland has multiple settlements; each settlement has between half a dozen and a dozen quests for you to get your teeth into.

Happiness in Slavery

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 3

The Naga. You'll be slaying a hell of a lot of these, but they're scaly and hissy so you won't feel too bad about it.

It's just as well, too. One of the first things you'll notice when you pop your head into Outland is that the XP requirements for the levels between 60 and 70 are completely, ridiculously huge. While leveling between 1 and 60 saw small incremental climbs in the XP needed to achieve each level, this slow curve topped off with just over 200,000 XP for level 60.

For level 61, you'll need over 400,000. Level 62 is over half a million XP. By the time you work your way through level 70, you'll be looking at racking up over 800,000 XP - numbers that seem daunting even to the most ardent grinder.

The truth of the matter, however, is that the actual leveling process between 60 and 70 is a breeze. In a game where many players boast of being able to manage the entire 1-60 progression in under a fortnight of intensive play, it's not surprising that the first level 70 characters were strolling around WoW servers within a week of the Burning Crusade being launched. What's perhaps more surprising is that even a fairly casual player can expect to hit 70 within a month, without any significant wailing or gnashing of teeth along the way.

This is a testament to the fantastic job Blizzard has done of building the progression structure in Burning Crusade. You'll never grind for XP in this expansion. As you discover new areas, you are given a vast number of quests to do, which will give you just enough XP and enough new items to allow you to explore the next area, where the cycle begins anew. It's so perfectly, accurately worked out as to be almost breathtaking; this is a game where the allocation of XP, gold, and a million other points and statistics is defined with a precision that would make a physicist weep for joy.

What's more, the Burning Crusade finally gives players a bit more variety than the usual "My leg hurts. Please kill 82 badgers." quests which made up the bulk of the leveling experience in World of Warcraft. Admittedly, you'll still be sent out fairly often to kill a certain number of badgers, or collect a certain number of dropped items - and we'll never quite understand how in the hell it's possible to kill 20 badgers and only have two of them drop any god-damned fur.

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 4

Terrokar Forest is a complete stylistic change from Hellfire. Each zone in Outland is incredibly different from its neighbours, much more so than in the original game.

However, the monotony is broken up nicely by quests which see you bombing enemy positions from the back of giant griffins, or dramatically summoning a vast undead dragon which swoops through the skies. These "special" quests are a far cry from the usual badger-killing antics, and a real step forward for Blizzard's quest design. Outland's zones also feature a host of PvP objectives which give you a perfect excuse to batter your fellow players around the place. Most of these are capture-and-hold exercises, but our personal favourite sees you trying to capture an entire village, an exercise which involves wiping out its defenders with aerial bombing runs.

The Good Soldier

Let's be honest, though. The questing from level 60 to 70 is a side-show, and experienced players will burn through it in a fortnight. Their more casual guild-mates will take a month to stroll through Outland's vast, graphically stunning zones; but this is a game you're expected to play for months. For a year, in fact, paying a subscription for the privilege each month. You won't be completing quests for that time; the real meat of this game, the rich red flesh that keeps people hooked, lies elsewhere.

The key is the game's dungeons. Seven new dungeon complexes were added in the Burning Crusade (with two more to follow in a forthcoming patch), each sporting multiple different "wings" which are essentially dungeons in themselves. You'll hit the first of these dungeon complexes, Hellfire Citadel, within hours of entering Outland, and further dungeons will open up to you as you progress before a vast array of new instances is made available at level 70.

Blizzard is great at designing dungeons; that much has been clear for a long time, and there are few instances in World of Warcraft which don't make for enjoyable play experiences - if you can spare the time, and find a group large enough to do them. It's no surprise, then, that the Burning Crusade sports a selection of extraordinarily well designed and scripted encounters. That's almost a given. Several key changes to Blizzard's approach do stand out, however.

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 5

Nagrand is probably the are most similar to previous zones in WoW - but it comes with a few surprises...

In essence, the changes are as follows: dungeons are shorter, they require fewer players, and you can play them either on Normal or Hard mode. These changes were controversial prior to the launch of The Burning Crusade, but the premature fury of the raiding hardcore now lies cold in its grave. Why? Because Blizzard was right all along.

Shorter dungeons don't mean less challenge, they means less filler. Smaller raid teams don't mean less strategy, they mean that it's even more vital that everyone in the team knows exactly what they're doing. Both factors combine to allow guilds to put together a couple of short raids a night, and give people who can't commit hours and hours on end to playing a videogame a chance to take part in the World of Warcraft endgame properly for the first time.

The upper limit on raid sizes has been dropped from 40 people to 25; still a daunting number of players to organise, but certainly a more reasonable goal for a large guild or a couple of medium-sized guilds working together. Most of The Burning Crusade's dungeons, however, feature wings designed for as few as five players, which makes it possible to complete them with just a few friends in tow. By far the most popular dungeons at present seem to be 10-man instances such as Kharazan, which offer a decent raiding challenge to the average guild, without being a logistical nightmare at the same time.

The Greater Good

In other words, The Burning Crusade has struck a balance in its endgame which World of Warcraft never quite found. The original game, for all its success, lost favour with many more casual players who found, after meandering their way to level 60 over the course of as much as six months, that there was nothing for them to do. Everything high-level required a large, active guild and the ability to commit entire evenings, several days a week.

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 6

... Like people dropping great bloody bombs off flying dragons and winged lions, to pick a relevant example.

The clever introduction of special Player vs Player battles solved the problem to some extent, but the Burning Crusade has eradicated it entirely. For perhaps the first time ever in an MMOG, the end-game experience is finally open to everyone. There will, inevitably, be complaints that it has been dumbed down, just as WoW has faced complaints in the past that it doesn't offer enough for high-level players; presumably the kind of high-level players who want their MMOGs to come packaged with special bottles for pissing in. So far, though, such complaints have been surprisingly muted. It looks like for now, at least, the balance works for everyone.

This isn't to say, of course, that The Burning Crusade gets everything right. The game is still, after all, a subscription MMOG, and its job is to keep players paying for the game month after month. What it can't do entirely through fun, it does instead by dangling a carrot in front of players anxious to progress and upgrade their characters. And for every evening you'll spend in a fun raid group, you'll spend two mindlessly grinding away at various types of creature. Some things never change.

Admittedly, the grind isn't for XP, which is something. Instead you'll find yourself grinding for gold. The highest level flying mounts, which really open up the game in a variety of ways (especially farming natural resources and PvP combat) cost an astonishing 5000 gold, and there are plenty of other sinks waiting to drain away your resources. You'll find yourself grinding for reputation with various factions. Without having high reputation (earned by completing quests at first, but ultimately only attainable by crawling through dungeons repeatedly) you'll be unable to access Heroic dungeons and a variety of rewards. You'll find yourself grinding for crafting materials, some of which have pathetic drop rates, because otherwise some of the game's best equipment will be denied to you.

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 7

Welcome to Kharazan - proud recipient of precisely zero Michelin stars last year, we're sorry to note.

This is a component of every MMOG. We mention it only because it's worth noting that whatever else may be fixed in the Burning Crusade, this is still a core element of the game. The pay-off is that raid groups are incredibly good fun (with the condition that if you play with morons, even the best game will be awful); but if having to spend time grinding for gold, reputation or items in between raids seems like the kind of thing that would turn you off going back into World of Warcraft, well, caveat emptor.

The Day The World Went Away

The other thing which Burning Crusade gets wrong, arguably, is that it breaks a lot of the high-level content which already existed in World of Warcraft. This was inevitable, but it's still potentially frustrating. Former top-end zones like the Eastern Plaguelands and Silithus are all but abandoned, getting a raid together for the old dungeons is practically impossible, and even the PvP environments - which were a hive of activity prior to the launch of TBC - are now largely devoid of life. PvP, admittedly, has been superseded to some extent by Arena combat, which sees teams of 2, 3 or 5 facing off with one another, but this aspect of the game is in its infancy and we actually found it quite tough to actually get a decent number of matches. It's promising, though, and it will be interesting to see how it develops.

The old capital cities, at least, remain full - not just of low-level adventurers, but also of high-level characters who must return there to use facilities like the Auction House. However, the experience of approaching level 60 must now be a very strange one for new WoW players. Entire trails of quests lead into dungeons where nobody goes any more, and at level 58, you just down tools on all the quest chains you were doing and head to Outland instead. It's an abrupt leap, and it makes Blizzard's hard work on the previous content completely pointless, although we fully expect that rebalanced "Heroic" versions of those dungeons will appear at some point in the future.

'World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade' Screenshot 8

Kharazan's opera house provides a fun challenge - and a chance for Blizzard to trot out bosses based on famous fictional characters...

Regardless of these complaints, The Burning Crusade has turned out to be a resounding success to an extent which few had expected. Three months into the lifespan of the expansion pack, it's clear that new life has been breathed into a game which was threatening to grow stale for many players. Superb graphics, sound and playability are simply to be expected from Blizzard at this point in time, and it's worth noting that if your machine was being pushed to its limits by WoW, you'll be turning down a few more graphical settings when you get to Outland. However, Blizzard's achievement here is far, far more than simply to offer a pretty, nice-sounding and eminently playable "more of the same" to its players.

In a genuinely striking move, The Burning Crusade simultaneously gives World of Warcraft veterans the swathes of new content they've been crying out for, and makes the end-game experience vastly more open to casual players or new players. Rather than merely catering to its hardcore audience, Blizzard has actually extended the accessibility of WoW to bring even more people into the fold.

There's never been a better time to get into WoW, or to reactivate your account if you're a lapsed adventurer; but be warned. Like the Hotel California, you can check out any time you like; but you can never leave.

10 / 10

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Comments (99) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • the_dudefather #1 5 years ago

  • Carlo #2 5 years ago

    I'm back on this game like a crack addict straight out of rehab
  • the_sas_man #3 5 years ago

    u know - i been playing guitar hero 2, pro evo 6, Supreme Commander, Gear of War...BUT

    I always keep coming back to wow, even if its to have a break for a month or two.

    No other game has done this for me, so well worth the ten.
  • zoidberg #4 5 years ago

    about bloody time...
  • Dizzy #5 5 years ago

    People are leaving in massive numbers. TBC was a big letdown for many (including me... )

    >makes the end-game experience vastly more open to casual players or new players

    Not true actually... end game is just as bad for non raiding players or guild. Mine is a raiding guild but even we have had a boring grind.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/07 @ 11:42
  • ViralNinja #6 5 years ago

    Yea!

    Give Blizzard 10/10 for charging money for less content than they've given away for free in the last 2 years!

    WarCrack rulez!
  • Pike #7 5 years ago

    For perhaps the first time ever in an MMOG, the end-game experience is finally open to everyone.

    Now I like BC quite a lot, so I won't argue the score. However that part doesn't seem to fit with the loudest complaints at the moment.

    The biggest issue in the WoW community at the moment seems to be that getting into end game raiding, beyond the five man content, is like hitting a brick wall of consumable requirements and cockblocked and untuned bosses.
  • magicpanda #8 5 years ago

    Deserves a 10 for the Nagrand zone alone.

    Decent PvP is pretty much fucked however, they've got a shit load of work to do to get all that right.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 11:42
  • Darren #9 5 years ago

    Ooooooooo a 10!

    Shame I stopped playing this really, it was the most insanely addictive game I'd ever played for the 300 odd hours I spent on it over 18 months ago but then I started playing games on the consoles and found it difficult to get back into as the "buzz" has long gone by then. To be honest, it's a game that sucks up your free time so I'm kind of relieved in a way that I managed to ween myself of it, it's probably more addictive than crack (not that I've ever tried it, I might add). Plus there are too many other good games across the platforms that need to be played as well to devote all my time to playing one, no matter how good it is.
  • Pike #10 5 years ago

    Deserves a 10 for the Nagrand zone alone.

    "Kill thirty clefthoofs and thirty goats"

    "Ok, thanks, now kill thirty, slightly harder, goats and clefthoofs."

    Good old Nesingwary.
  • Les #11 5 years ago

    So, better than Halo then? ;-P
  • Nova5lag #12 5 years ago

  • orakio #13 5 years ago

    I would've given the original game a 10 when it came out. This doesn't deserve more than a 6 or 7 really (for a lot of people, that is). Innovation is absent, and many returning players are not enjoying themselves.
    I don't disagree a lot with EG's opinion... but this is one of those times ^_^
  • #14 5 years ago

    Come and join the EG guildies on the burning steppes :)

    Link to EG forum thread.

    Link to guild forum

    :)
  • Kalinin #15 5 years ago

    Good review.

    I'm fairly biased after just giving the game a boot after on/off play since release so I can't agree on all points - but the core faults are ear-marked.

    For someone immersed in the game I think there is a genuine loss of perspective as to just how good a job Blizzard did on making all the content - irregardless of class balance and rebalance and the simple fact that motes/primals are possibly the most soul-destroying but yet constant facet of crafting now... sorry, minor veteran rant, couldn't help it.

    But yes, in reflection, some very dramatic visual story telling in TBC, Silvermoon and those first few steps into Hellfire were worth the price of the Expansion and a month's gametime easily, even if the run up to 70 was bumpy in patches.

    As for Nagrand, lovely zone, bad nestingwary! Although, I do admit a little bit of nostalgia for Stranglethorn while I was doing those - that really was the trial by fire on PvP servers.

    I think in some ways TBC will be most rewarding for people who spent the least time at 60 originally or for the new players starting out from scratch when they get there (although that heavy rift of poor content between low-to-mid-40s and eary 50s needs addressed), the shock of change after a long status quo is probably the reason a lot of people see their guilds leaving en masse - as a long time 60 I can't really comment on TBC endgame as being more open to casuals for that reason.

    The gap between level 60 epics and level 61 greens was one Blizzard themselves created through short-sightedness, and while that reset in the balance of power is nice for the newcomer it hurt a lot of hardcore players to see that happen. It's also the sole reason no-one will set foot in a level 60 instance anymore. If that gap in gear was a bit tighter then people in their early 60s would still find those places worth a peek.

    EDIT: added a final point
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 12:05
  • the_dudefather #16 5 years ago

    "Give Blizzard 10/10 for charging money for less content than they've given away for free in the last 2 years! "

    are you on the special subscription for WOW that doesn't charge per month?
  • magicpanda #17 5 years ago

    Deserves a 10 for the Nagrand zone alone.

    "Kill thirty clefthoofs and thirty goats"

    "Ok, thanks, now kill thirty, slightly harder, goats and clefthoofs."

    Good old Nesingwary.


    RING OF BLOOD!! RING OF BLOOD!! AMAGAD WERE BEING GANKED HELP US PLX! :D

  • Jambii #18 5 years ago

  • stoopidgreg #19 5 years ago

    pah, how can you give an MMORPG expansion a 10!

    but i guess if you ask a junkie, he'd probably give heroin a 10 as well
  • decibel #20 5 years ago

    eh? Had it for a while now and apart from some the nifty new locations, this doesn't add anything significant for the asking price.

    I usually don't go all omg the score is wrong!! but 10/10? Jesus christ. Even dedicated WoW fantatics know that it's not that good :/ It's a solid expansion, offering some interesting refreshments for the tiring WoW player.. 6/10
  • ZuluHero #21 5 years ago

    i wonder if LotR:online (out today i think) will have any effect on WoW?

    As for me - well, Outland is my home and i'm staying put! :D
  • ViralNinja #22 5 years ago

    ""Give Blizzard 10/10 for charging money for less content than they've given away for free in the last 2 years! "

    are you on the special subscription for WOW that doesn't charge per month?"

    Are you on the special subscription where you pay for neccessary patches on top of your subscription?
  • Pike #23 5 years ago

    RING OF BLOOD!! RING OF BLOOD!! AMAGAD WERE BEING GANKED HELP US PLX! :D

    I was never ganked doing ring of blood actually. On the contrary I think we had help from alliance waiting for their turn on both occassions I did that event. It sure is fun as well.

    The quest line ending with a visit froma certain Horde leader also has to be one of the top three quest lines in the entire game.
  • ZuluHero #24 5 years ago

    ^^^ yeah - horde helped us when we were doing it. And We're on a PvP sever too. In fact during those early days of BC there was alot of helping on both sides.
  • magicpanda #25 5 years ago

    I love how they have expanded on the Dire Maul way of doing things but the new instances aren't all that great.. especially Tempest Keep, not a fan of cheap way they have injected a Sci Fi aspect into the game.
  • MrBiggles #26 5 years ago

    Never played this game, thank God. Big RPG fan but can't deal with these geeky MMORPG's. Diablo 2 is as far as I'll go.
  • Psychotext #27 5 years ago

    I went back to wow for the expansion after quitting for a year... it's good, but there's no way that it's a ten.
  • thedaveeyres #28 5 years ago

    meh - glad I got my life back a couple of years ago. Not tempted at all.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 12:18
  • Azazel #29 5 years ago

    Can't believe I've managed to resist WoW for this long... /gives self a gold star
  • Shinji #30 5 years ago

    It's worth adding, by the way, that if you integrate this with the 8/10 we gave the lower-end content in the expansion a few months back, our final score for TBC comes out as a 9.
  • #31 5 years ago

    This review gives me some impetus to keep lvling up my lvl 51 mage :)
  • abigsmurf #32 5 years ago

    there are a lot of faults with Burning Crusade.

    Jewelcrafting is nothing but a money making profession as the gems which drop in raids are superior to anything you can make and there are no good endgame BOP items to craft.

    A lot of quests seem designed to frustrate with you being forced to go into areas with wide roaming patrols, quick respawns and dense concentrations of mobs. You'll spend loads on repairing in outland.

    Worst however are all the bugs. Having to quit Caverns of time after two+ hours of playing because thrall bugged is annoying. Getting killed by bugged enemies who can dodge every attack yet still hit you (even if they're far away). There's loads of stupid bugs like this that are immensely frustrating and the list of the various issues is simply far too long in a game which was tested as long as BC was.
  • Shinji #33 5 years ago

    I haven't had that problem in CoT - although I admit that I've only done that specific instance once, since we're mostly running Kharazan these days. The other "bug" you mention, though, is something I've encountered a couple of times. On both occasions it turned out that it had happened just as my housemate kicked off a bittorrent download, and it stopped as soon as I shouted at him - I think it's more a connection issue than a bug with the game itself, although I could be wrong on that. Ultimately, though, I can only review what I experience :)
  • PlugMonkey #34 5 years ago

    Can't believe I've managed to resist WoW for this long...

    It's not so hard. I've lost too many good friends to this terrible disease to ever consider trying it myself.
  • RandolphScott #35 5 years ago

    This has been annoying me for a while...

    Why do we have 2 page reviews? There's a scrollbar!
  • InfiniteFury #36 5 years ago

    There's things I'd like to see improved such as the mechanics for attunements and instance grinds but frankly, Murmur makes it a 10/10 for me alone. The tense bladerunner-type music just pumps the adrenaline, oooh I can feel my spine tingling just thinking about it.

    It was my first enormous boss fight and it was probably one of the best gaming moments I've ever had. Vorpi before him was a cnut and a half though
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 12:46
  • Psychotext #37 5 years ago

    RandolphScott: Ad impressions. You get more of them on a two page review than a single long page.
  • kuzanagi #38 5 years ago

    > This has been annoying me for a while...

    > Why do we have 2 page reviews? There's a scrollbar!

    Double the adverts :D
  • paulf #39 5 years ago

    the best thing about WoW for me is it keep constantly evolving and tbc adds to this, sure blizz arent gonna keep everyone happy all the time but they are making a good job of trying and don't seem to rest on their laurels, but listen to the players of the game. Best game I've ever played
  • Phattso #40 5 years ago

    Time considerations have forced me to cancel my sub recently, but the journey from 60-70 with my Hunter and to the mid-60's with my Mage was an absolute joy. All the new factions (and their rewards) are pretty decent, and even if the 10-25 person content was beyond my reach, there was plenty of 5-person raid content that I thoroughly enjoyed.

    As a casual player it got the thumbs up from me. Well deserving of the score, but as with all things if it's not your thang you're not gonna like it. :)
  • Carrybagma #41 5 years ago

  • belziah #42 5 years ago

    Dear Zapp/Crrash

    I'm getting more and more disillusioned and disgusted by the obvious bias towards the Spectrum. My Atari 600xl is just as capable has a "real" keyboard and comes with custom built cassette deck, unlike that shabby Tandy's tape deck that comes with the Sinclair..................................



    Sorry, been holding onto it for over 20 years. Finally in the right emotional zen to let it go.

    /lets it go.....
  • stoopidgreg #43 5 years ago

    @ Carrybagma: wrong
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 13:30
  • Iora #44 5 years ago

    10 out of friking 10......You have got to be kidding me!!!

    I quit this game a few nights ago by donating everything to a random noob in Azeroth then throwing myself from the high perch in Shattrath.

    WoW had become horribly dull before the expansion, and all the Burning Crusades offered was (funny enough) an expansion to this already dulling world.

    No new ideas or alterations to the game. There existed nothing to alleviate the dull skull scraping monotony that was etched into every facet of the original game. It ached me so much that absolutely everything you do in WoW is totally meaningless. I had hoped the expansion would alter this.

    10/10 indeed...

    What will happen a year down the line when everyone has ran the same frikin dungeon over and over again for an extra 1% crit rating. Only for Blizzard to release the next instalment lvl70 - 80 all weapons and effort thrown away again. New dungeons to meaninglessly grind.

    Just how many times do you need to kill that boss again - Doesnt he stay dead!! I'd love for my actions to mean a damn.

    Oh yeah and pvp is a joke.

    10/10 hahaha

    £8 quid a month and the overpriced expansion roughly £120 for that year. No thanks ill go buy some quality games for that money.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 13:50
  • Nasty #45 5 years ago

    Managed to pack this in a couple of months ago. Playing LOTRO just now (a bit pish so far) to pass the time.

    I really wanted to like BC but it [WoW in general] was just far too static for it to be entertaining anymore. Call me selfish but I want to change the world. I want to burn and conquer a guilds town. I want to focus on building and impressive town for all to admire and then log in one night and find it under seige. WoW (to me at least) was just grind to get good enough equipment to do something then grind that. Hours of drudgery would only be bearable due to the inane banter on /g. I'd rather now have a more involving game and the inane banter at the same time.

    Patiently waiting for Age of Conan and sacrificing to the gods of gaming a minimum of 17 chickens a day to ensure it does not suck.
  • Slim #46 5 years ago

    I can only think that this score could come from someone who didn't much play endgame WoW pre TBC?

  • Azazel #47 5 years ago

    I quit this game a few nights ago by donating everything to a random noob in Azeroth then throwing myself from the high perch in Shattrath.

    genuine lol!
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 13:54
  • Pike #48 5 years ago

    Ah, the bitterness of those burned out. I wondered when those comments would show up.:)
  • tnomad #49 5 years ago

    Clearly Rob is The Great Destroyer!
  • Fwing #50 5 years ago

    "It ached me so much that absolutely everything you do in WoW is totally meaningless"

    It's a videogame. It's meaningless by definition. Unless you're having fun rather than being a jaded burnout case, for instance. . .
  • Nasty #51 5 years ago

    It's a videogame. It's meaningless by definition. Unless you're having fun rather than being a jaded burnout case, for instance. . .

    OBJECTION!
  • InfiniteFury #52 5 years ago

    2 years seems to be the burnout and I dare say it will come to me another 6 months as well.

    Doesn't make the game shit, I've got people at work who are starting out now and just think: "Oh my god, this is AMAZING"

    Deal with it, time people and games move on.

    The game as it stands in terms of the music, the content, the story, the size, the new raid-style 5 man encounters, the volume of stuff to do deserves it's 10/10 IMO, I'll concede a 9.
    Edited by 1 at 24/04/07 @ 14:10
  • Slim #53 5 years ago

    Sure but if you started out today you'd miss all the fab 40 man and bits like Zul'Gurub. TBC is a real climb down from those dungeons in my book, and I could only understand the score if you didn't play those.
  • Shinji #54 5 years ago

    I don't really see it as a climb-down from the original lvl 60 endgame content at all - although I guess that's a matter of personal perspective, really. While some of the instances in WoW previously had fantastic encounters and strategy to them, they also asked you to devote far, far more time to them than was reasonable for a lot of people. Zul'Gurub was great, but what, five hours? Six? Even spread over a couple of days, it was damn hard to organise that for the average guild. I think I did it twice, in total, compared to loads of runs at lower end instances like Zul'Farak - and runs a few times a week in places like Kharazan.

    Those kind of time demands (not to mention the sheer difficulty of assembling 40 people for a raid) meant that for me, personally, I ended up with a level 60 character sitting there doing fuck all most of the time. The PvP stuff was the saviour of my interest in the game; the end-game raids just required too much time and organisation to be reasonable.

    The stuff in TBC is altogether more compact, which I suppose means that for some players it'll feel a lot less epic, but the difference for me (and for a hell of a lot of other players - most of my own guild, for a start) is that this makes it accessible. The individual encounters are still great, and what I've been MOST impressed by, in a lot of ways, is that they've scaled down the size of raids without losing any of the tension or the need for strategy. That's an impressive bit of design work.

    Anyway - I'm not going to argue with most of the people here, because frankly, even those saying that they've ditched the game entirely and now despise it have a legitimate point of view. Playing a game like this is a journey, and lots of people here are clearly on different legs of the journey to the one I'm on. It's been really interesting to get a lot more of those perspectives in this thread so far :)
  • Pike #55 5 years ago

    Are you saying Kara is *less* demanding than ZG? Because it seems like there are plenty of complaints that the new raiding content, Kara included, demands a lot more of guilds in regards to rigid group compositions and individual skill compared to previous endgame encounters.
  • Shinji #56 5 years ago

    I'm saying it's less demanding in terms of organisation (ten people to get together rather than 20) and time (it's a much shorter instance to complete) than Zul'Gurub - it's definitely, to my mind, a harder *gameplay* experience. I don't know if Slim would agree :)
  • Slim #57 5 years ago

    Now your just proving me right here Shinji :)

    ZG took about the same time as Kara to clear 3 hours or so. We had molten core down to 2.5 hours, bwl a similar time. I found the time investment pre tbc far better really, I could calender a raid to different nights, and just play to that schedule. TBC had me killing flippin 30 buzzards and shit like that, it was just insulting, time consuming and a real turn off.

    No idea why they decided to make everyone start again rather than just extend the end game. We didn't need a re-grind, we didn't need to hammer heroics for weeks to get keys, we just needed more content.

    As I said, this would be irrelivant if you didn't do the lvl 60 endgame, so the review is really levels 1-70 without stopping. If you reviewed it as an expansion, the score should be a lot lower.
  • Aga #58 5 years ago

    "The biggest issue in the WoW community at the moment seems to be that getting into end game raiding, beyond the five man content, is like hitting a brick wall of consumable requirements and cockblocked and untuned bosses."

    Will change in patch 2.10 where things will stack less, and flasks lose their potency a bit (lot).
  • Shinji #59 5 years ago

    I don't doubt that you can get ZG down to three hours if you're used to hammering through it - you're obviously with a guild that could get that organised on a regular basis, which is great. Glad you were having a good time! However, it took a fucking bucketload longer than that when I did it, and that was a complete turn-off - as was the player count needed for it.

    Ultimately, as I said, I hit 60 in WoW and found that a hell of a lot of the high level content was designed for players with much, much more time to devote to the game and to organisation than I had, or than the people I was playing with had. We played PvP in preference to raiding as a direct result of that. So in a sense, you're entirely right - my experience of the end-game is completely different from yours, and I didn't play the raiding element of it to the extent that you're probably looking for. However, I'm also damn certain that a hell of a lot of people were in the same boat as I was - and to my mind, that makes this a perfectly reasonable perspective from which to write about the game.

    Not least because as I said a few months back when I wrote about the lower-level content (while I was still running through the 60-70 levelling process with my main), quite frankly, if you've already hoovered up your Tier 3 gear, you don't need Eurogamer to tell you to buy The Burning Crusade.
  • Lurks #60 5 years ago

    Well you're right. There's huge issues with TBC, and this is coming from someone who not only wants to believe but basically has to communicate a positive upbeat vibe to a top five guild after having a full half of our membership quit the game post TBC. We had pretty much no one quit in the months leading UP to TBC. Ergo something must have changed and I can tell you categorically that the overriding thing that people were saying was basically that TBC screwed the game for them. Not that they got tired of WoW in general, but the changes that were introduced in TBC.

    There are, thankfully, some pretty well stated compendium posts on the official forums about what went wrong. Blizzard have responded to that in part and 2.1 really does address a number of the big issues which leaves some cause for optimism. We've seen this before remember. When WoW was launched, Blizzard panicked when people hit the end and ran out of things to do so they slapped in Molten Core. This time they went the other way and overloaded on grindy stuff so you'd NEVER run out of game progression but it's blatantly too far - people don't jump through hoops for the sake of it, there has to be light at the end of the tunnel.

    They also did a whole bunch of deeply unexplicable things like caving into the minority PvP folks who complained about raid epics making PvP unbalanced. It's an RPG right. They were bemoaning the fact you could go out and play the game enough, do what it took to get good gear, and then come and own them in PvP. So what did Bliz do? Rather than just balance PvP some other way, they took all raid epics and made them fractionally better than easily obtainable blues. Hence Penny Arcade are doing a T-Shirt that says Greens are the new Purples. It's almost that bad and almost completely removes the lovely loot carrot at the end of a hard fought encounter. Bottom line is that TBC itemisation is basically broken. Hours of learning to get down a boss in Karazhan, some loot drops and people scratch their chins. Nah, void crystal it is. Check the prices on void crystals now if you want to see exactly how MANY epics are being sharded right now.

    It's interesting how the review talks about Z'G being so long. We did ZG in two and a half hours before moving on and comfortably a single night prior to that. We're spending two-three nights doing Karazhan which is just a 10 man raid. That's what's broken most of all really. The lack of proper casual raiding places like ZG and a swift progression to grown up stuff in 20-40 man stuff, the sorts of things we came to love about the game. The sort of things that really did make WoW the 10/10 game. But then they went and took it all away from us so it seems kind of ironic now that here's a review of TBC giving it 10/10!

    It's to the point now when I'm losing the will to live recruiting people to replace those which are packing in the game. We've actually got people transfering to our server to join our guild because theirs has busted, let alone recruitment from other folded guilds. I can't state the problem in large enough terms - if 2.1 doesn't deliver and deliver big style it's all over for me and many many more. That's not annecdotal evidence on some macro scale, that's a description of the reality in the guild situation in WoW today which you can most easily confirm by taking a quick trawl along the official forums.
    Edited by 2 at 24/04/07 @ 15:04
  • MrAtheist #61 5 years ago

    ...caving into the minority PvP folks who complained about raid epics making PvP unbalanced...

    A hardcore raider labelling another group of players as 'minority' :)
  • Slim #62 5 years ago

    I ran a guild with lurks here for a good while. I'm not hardcore, I've a life, I've kids, I didn't have hours of time to dedicate to wow. The 40 man stuff took some planning, but actual game time was pretty efficient, and I wouldn't class myself doing 3 hours 3 times a week as hardcore at all.

    Yet at that schedule we managed to do the endgame raids with 40 players, and it was a lot of fun. Arguably 20 man ZG was even more fun, so I can appreciate the direction Blizzard went with TBC. But then they fekked it up by adding rep grinds, daft 'kill 30' quest grinds, awful attunement requirements, and silly 10 or 25 man instances. Doesn't stack up after you've experienced the joy of endgame WoW really.
  • Slim #63 5 years ago

    "I hated every 10+ man raid I ever went on. I'd rather play with close real life friends, BC is great."

    That makes no sense given there's only one 10 man raid and the rest of the endgame stuff is 25 man...
  • Lurks #64 5 years ago

    I don't think raiding ended up being some minority pursuit in WoW. It's basically what the game leads up to, it's all there was prior to TBC. Blizzard was right to reduce the maximum raid sizes because there wasn't really any good reason for 40 man raids, it just stopped the smaller more casual guilds from raiding.

    However the smaller casual guilds were all over Zul'Gurub. It was perfect. It was a couple of nights to start with to ease yourself in, then when you had it nailed it was just a three hour run. WoW needed more of that but then they bizarrely took it all away and filled the game with five man instances. Bizarre.

    I find five man instances LESS social than 10-20 man raids because I've got more than five pals playing the game. So if they're not in my five man I don't get to play with them. 20 man stuff is a nice sweet spot in my opinion. I can't be bothered to log on to play a five man instance. For a start you rapidly have all the loot you're ever going to get out of it and they're insulting easy and boring.

    Yes I'd like to play with my pals but I'd also like to do something that's actually worthwhile and that's clearly PvP or raiding.
  • Waldo #65 5 years ago

    I've never played a MMORPG in my life.
  • tnomad #66 5 years ago

    I never really got into WoW. I don't need it anyway as "I've got my propaganda, I've got revisionism, I've got my violence in hi-def ultra realism".
  • Carrybagma #67 5 years ago

    @stoopidgreg: It's something I like to post whenever a PC game picks up another EG 10/10 :o)
  • Maximilian #68 5 years ago

    Call me a skeptic but does anyone find it suspicious that EG publish a review of TBC and give it 10/10 on the day LOTRO officially launches. Were the staff of EG promised epixxx by Blizzard?
  • AOFanboi #69 5 years ago

    <em>Give Blizzard 10/10 for charging money for less content than they've given away for free in the last 2 years!</em>

    I have played since launch, but apparently MISSED the free patch that added two races with their own starting areas, a new profession, Diablo-style socketed items, a new neutral city, new high-level zones and a shitload of instances.

    Care to elaborate?
  • Iora #70 5 years ago

    Its funny how there is a term Burntout !?!
    I started playing less and less becoming more and more disatisfied with the game. You say that i burntout and now im angry at WoW. umm.. no im just amazed it got 10/10. If they had developed something that added a new dimension to the game something that set peoples imaginations alight. Something that actually meant something, that wasn't as static as pre BC.

    Games dont have to be meaningless. I play EVE as well and it has its fare share of problems but your actions actually mean a damn. Killing someone doesn't have them popping into existance a few metres from you and dancing a merry jig. Goals and objectives should have never been collect 20 murloc testicles only to find there all one balled wonders.

    What is your goal in WoW to gain a few extra points on each stat ??? man that sucks. I had hoped the expansion would offer something different but it just shovelled more of the same. Yawn!

    BC was beautiful it looks great the music was astounding (i particularly loved the Blood Elfs music) but the actual content was just exactly the same with bigger numbers yawn!

    8/10

    and yes i did give everything away - lol i sold all my items from every character gave it all to some guy in Ironforge. jumped to Shattrath and standing next to the elevator i wished everyone a good game and plummeted to my death.

    Account cancelled game un-installed.
  • bonker #71 5 years ago

    Guys I tell ya, I just thank the Lord that I don't understand most of what you are all talking about and that a lot of it sounds intimidating/offputting as I'm sure that my life would be over as soon as I sniffed WOW ...

    I had similar feelings about Oblivion and took the plunge with that only to lose 200+ hours of my life :)

    WOW sounds a lot more 'hard' and I'm thankful that it sounds that way.

    /prays to God
  • Wyrm #72 5 years ago

    The end game content is too frustrating to be bothered with. The trash is harder than the bosses, the respawn times are too short so learning new bosses is an UTTER NIGHTMARE. Plus they've made Holy Priests redundant, Palas and Druids are much more reliable to have around.
  • Lurks #73 5 years ago

    Heh Wyrm, everything you say is true as well. Interestingly the promised 2.1 looks to be fixing at least some of those issues. Holy pallies being nerfed (although they clearly should have just buffed priests), the trash scaled down a lot in Karazhan but yeah... it's weird, for an expansion that proved to be more mass market friendly, Karazhan is a deeply annoying place for the common garden variety guild.

    Clearly Karazhan should have been a lot easier than it is, particularly given the loot, and the progression for the hard core raiders should have been rapidly up and into the 25 man stuff. As it stands I'm left wondering when we'll manage to get everyone attuned for Serpentshire Cavern and if that'll be before everyone quits in annoyance. And we're probably a little ways along the line from casual to hardcore raiders than the 'average' guild so heaven only knows how annoying this must be for the majority.
  • MaxiSleep #74 5 years ago

    Could not agree with what Lurks said more. The game pretty much broke for me after BC.
  • Orange #75 5 years ago

    I've played WoW since release, I wouldn't call myself burntout but I'm definitely keeping a constant look out for a fresh mmo. WoW does seem to just keep repeating itself in its "new" content with different shades of the same thing. The lack of competition from other mmos is a problem, it just feels like Blizzard have no urgency any more.

    The first week or so of TBC was great. But then it rapidly slows to a snailspace, even more rep grinds, raids with consumables and the new arenas are very basic as well.
  • Timmeh #76 5 years ago

    Are you serious? I just had to register to ask.

    10/10? You clearly haven't played Warcraft since The Burning Crusade and are basing your review from the press release blurb, or are being 'sponsored' by Blizzard to write this tripe (the time of its release suggests the latter frankly). I would go into more detail but my comment was getting as long as this advertising propagnda so I'm condensing it.

    Clearly you are not the 'casual player' you insist this thing is more accessible to. I'm not either and before I got bored of playing I was raiding Kara with my guild. I suggest if you're going to comment on the game from a casual perspective you spend a few nights using the LFG interface to get a group for something... anything. And try raiding Shadow Labyrinth with a group of random people in a couple of hours.

    As for new content, we've got plenty of bugs and some ridiculous encounters i.e. most of the heroic instances if you're melee dps/raid bosses that require the use of virtually every buff/potion you can get your hands on. This was beta tested for how long?

    Maybe I'll just go PvP instead. Oh, they cant seem to make their mind up what to do with different classes so they constantly keep changing talents/skills while ruining PvE in the progress too.

    Where's the innovation, the content aimed at the time-limited player and all the other things that would warrant a 10? Why are people leaving at an alarming rate? All I see is another 10 unnecessary levels that mean more grinding, mounts that positively encocurage the gold selling disease plaguing MMO's and a whole heap of boring content that adds nothing newer than new textures on bosses and a higher number of hitpoints.

    I would ask that you go back and play this game as an unbiased reviewer and give us your genuine thoughts. I've read through articles on here many times before but this review has put me off coming back as there is absolutely no way in hell this expansion can be objectively awarded a 10.
  • Iora #77 5 years ago

    lol timmeh :)
    Big words small name ;)

    Totally agree with you. By and large I agree with Eurogamer but 10/10 is laughable.
  • phl0w #78 5 years ago

    Couldn't agree more with Timmeh and less with this poor review.
    But the discussion isn't new. It started back when you decided to split the review in the first place to justify a 10/10 later by thumbing down the content for the avg. gamer only to now praise a "patch" (which hasn't even been tested enough) for those who are "really into it". If you'd apply this strategy to all reviews, any game would get a 10/10

    I do agree with your NIN playlist though ;)
  • WrongShui #79 5 years ago

    10 Man dungeons?

    You mean the one 10 man dungeon? With creatures respawning after 20 mins?

    There's so much mindless boring filler in this addon. Like the guy in charge of game mechanics gets paid to remove fun or reason from it.

    Its ace though.
  • Pulsar_t #80 5 years ago

    +1 to the MMO virgin crowd.

    We are the minority among PC gamers. I weep for yesteryear.
  • dcangel #81 5 years ago

    10???

    But that would imply that this game is perfect. ;) /No/ game is perfect. (Except possibly Super Metroid.)

    This reminds me of the time not so long ago when I played the 7-day trial, curious to find out what the fuss was about. The MM part was never a big draw for me (people are scary) but I'd heard a single player could also have fun. I eventually got bored of mindlessly slaughtering Kobolds for a pittance, and got shot of the game entirely. Maybe the social aspect does add to the experience, but judging from the time I spent with it, the core gameplay was a tad too repetitive for me to want to find out. My bank balance is eternally grateful.

    Edited by 1 at 25/04/07 @ 10:19
  • Pike #82 5 years ago

    Since when does a 10 mean that the reviewer claims that a game is perfect?
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/07 @ 09:35
  • Skeeve #83 5 years ago

    Interesting perspective on the demands of level 60 endgame there shinji, the server that I play on with Lurks and formerly slim is relatively backward when it comes to endgame progression, but even that one would have people regularly running pickup group raids to zg, aq20, onyxia, mc and bwl so the demands on people couldn't have been that great then.

    Just compare the longest attunement questline in original wow, onyxia, then compare that to what is required to get attuned to the first proper 25 man instance and the demands on somebody has already increased drastically.

    There is still a lot of very good stuff in TBC, but equally some stuff is clearly flawed and/or a step backwards from the original game.
  • warthog2k #84 5 years ago

    I would refute the idea that 'casual' players can go from 60-70 in a month. I've done nothing but grind quests from 60-70 and it's taken 4 days of playing time to get to 68- 100 hours in a month isn't casual play!

    The point of playing WoW (for me) is to have fun. I'm having fun, therefore I keep playing. Simple.

    If you start worrying too much about the size of your crit then you should probably take a look at your priorities in life.
  • zootle #85 5 years ago

    "By far the most popular dungeons at present seem to be 10-man instances such as Kharazan"

    There's only one 10 player instance at level 70 at this time. You really need to progress through Karazhan before moving

    This doesn't deserve a 10/10 at all, and I say that as a fan of the game. The dungeon design does indeed seem pretty good for the large part but the rapid trash respawning in the raid instances (or "pacing mechanic" as Blizzard like to call it) seems very unpopular with anyone I talk to.
  • dcangel #86 5 years ago

    Pike - It doesn't. 10 out of 10 implies a state nearing perfection simply because it's at the top end of the review scale. I did read the full review, thanks. ;) The comment was made in jest, but it would seem that a smiley is needed to drive the point home.

    ...

    There we go.
  • Iora #87 5 years ago

    Nine Inch Nails rules.

    However... It's 'The Day The -Whole- World Went Away'

    pffff
  • Eisenstein #88 5 years ago

    It's a videogame. It's meaningless by definition. Unless you're having fun rather than being a jaded burnout case, for instance. . .

    True, but it should give you the feeling of accomplishment. When I beat the big guy, rescue the princess, destroy the temple, roll my Mammoths over the last defense of the enemy I can lean back and say "I've done it!". TBC somehow manages to leave out this feeling, even after killing some bosses, because it is only another step in the long chain to the next raiding instance and the guy will only drop another thing to disenchant.

    It's interesting how the review talks about Z'G being so long. We did ZG in two and a half hours before moving on and comfortably a single night prior to that. We're spending two-three nights doing Karazhan which is just a 10 man raid. That's what's broken most of all really.

    When we started doing ZG (when it was released) we needed two evenings and more. It took us a few weeks until we killed all the bosses, and even then we needed 8h to finish the whole instance after we had it on farm. When we stopped doing it (half a year before TBC) we did it in about 2h. In full BWL/AQ40 gear. Same with MC and BWL, AQ40 and Naxxramas. And the same will be true for all TBC-instances.

    Comparing something you did on your prime with something you just start out is a bit unfair.

    In the end we managed Karazhan far faster than ZG. About three weeks until we had it on farm. The time I quit WoW by the way.

    10/10 is a completely accurate mark for TBC, until you dive very deep into the high-end of the game. Hardcore raiding, hardcore PvP and spending 8+h a day in the game will reveal deficits and problems. But it is a stage few people get into, and the problems are tiny objectively seen and overblown a lot here on on the WoW-forums. Yes, I say this as former Holy Priest who quit disgusted about the class balance with the PoM nerf. :-D
    Edited by 2 at 25/04/07 @ 11:05
  • Lurks #89 5 years ago

    warthog2k said:

    "I've done nothing but grind quests from 60-70 and it's taken 4 days of playing time to get to 68- 100 hours in a month isn't casual play!"

    That's remarkably slow and a very long time to make 70. We've got a number of girls who did substantially better than that. Did you avoid going to any instances at all? You often make a third of a level just going to one.

    "If you start worrying too much about the size of your crit then you should probably take a look at your priorities in life."

    This sort of stuff amuses me. You apparently get to decide what is healthy when it comes to enjoy the game. You enjoy pottering around not really knowing anything about the game mechanics (presumably) and that's fine, that's casual and enjoying yourself and so healthy.

    Heaven forbid someone should learn a bit more about it and aim to maximise their statistics or whatever and extract their entertainment that way. That's unhealthy and those people need to reassess their life?

    That's just such utter nonsense I don't know where to begin.
  • Timmeh #90 5 years ago

    After another scan through this advertisement, I noticed a comment about rich storytelling? Is this an epic that drops from some raid? All I found were the same tenuously linked quests and instances that I raided over and over to get attunements/gear mostly or help others get them. As with WoW I found myself doing this with no real idea why it was there, and never had any real sense of progressing through a story at any point. Maybe this was just me, am I missing something huge here?
  • Iora #91 5 years ago

    No Timmeh that's about it........you grind!
  • Pike #92 5 years ago

    Well, Timmeh, did you ever bother to read the text in the quest log, besides checking what you had to do to finish the quests. TBC seem to have a remarkably cohesive storyline, considering that it's a MMORPG.
  • Timmeh #93 5 years ago

    Actually I do try to read the text and get an idea of what is going on, but I never felt that there was any real story in the game. I mean, when I've been bored I've read the lore on some of the significant characters and picked up some back story, and therefore have some level of appreciation when I see them in game but you can't expect the average player to go read up on the huge amount of information from the other games etc. I never felt there was more of a goal than 'get to Black Temple, farm Illidan for epic drops'

    I don't know, maybe I missed a point or two but it does get rather tedious doing yet another kill some monsters>kill some slightly harder monsters>kill some harder monsters>find 3/4 other people and kill an elite monster quest for the 100th time ^^
  • Pike #94 5 years ago

    Sure the grind can be tedious, but is WoW anny different from the competition? I haven't really played any other MMORPGs, but nothing I've read so far suggests that there are other alternatives within the genre.

    I look forward to see if Tabula Rasa breaks the mold, but that is still far off.
  • Timmeh #95 5 years ago

    I don't disagree with that at all Pike, the MMO genre is as stale as it gets, the concepts are years out of date and developers are starting to knock them out with increasing regularity in the hopes of capturing the WoW crowd, while adding nothing to the genre as a whole. WoW/TBC is no more or less formulaic than any other MMORPG but surely that's yet another reason why it doesn't deserve anything like a 10?

    All in all I think it's about time these developers came up with some new concepts that were actually fun, not just a grind-fest race to get the best items in the game. If any current MMORPG had the MMO removed and was released as a single player game, no doubt virtually every last one would bomb.
  • tentaculat #96 5 years ago

    Obviously this is a contentious issue. Over 100 very emotional comments already, amusing reading. I especially enjoyed one comment that used the term "jaded burnout cases", because that very succinctly describes the annoying vocal minority of people that criticize this game.

    Many of us are veterans of the MMO genre and yes, a large proportion have grown bitter and jaded. Others - like myself - on the other hand have accepted the genre for what it is and are still mesmerized by this shining example of the genre.

    I half-agree with claims that the genre is stale at the moment, but WoW is not at fault just because it chose polish over innovation. The MMO genre needed polish, very, very badly.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/07 @ 12:58
  • Drpwnage #97 5 years ago

    The problem with TBC as it stands now is how overtuned the initial 25man raid content is and therefore the lack of progress you can make at first in an 'average to good' raiding guild.

    The content, feels like Blizzard had a separate team of staff working on TBC to the latter content of Wow classic namely Naxxramas.

    The difficulty of the raid content in Naxx scaled beautifully, whereas in TBC once your through Gruul's lair(a measly 2 bosses) it gets a hell of a lot harder.

    If the difficulty of the 25 man raid content scaled better allowing faster progression through the initial content alot of long term wow players wouldn't be finding the game so stale.

  • Martin #98 5 years ago

    Christ what a lot of whiners.

    Don't like it? Don't play it.

    More loot for me! :)
  • MaxiSleep #99 5 years ago

    Martin
    25-Apr-07 21:53:18

    "Christ what a lot of whiners.

    Don't like it? Don't play it.

    More loot for me! :) "

    Perfectly happy to leave you for some kara solo runs. :)

    And if you miss the Barrens chat try OOC in LOTR. Freaky how many WoW'ers are there reliving old times

  • Iora #100 5 years ago

    @Martin

    'Dont like it Don't play it'

    I Don't like it I stopped playing it.

    'More loot for me'

    You mean those static so called epic items that everyone can get as if they are manufactured in a sweat shop production line and sold on the high street.

    You won't miss random Joe Blogs who leaves. Because they don't add anything to the game. This includes you! and every other player.

    If your actions in WoW meant a damn then i'd be running straight back there with a giant slice of humble pie. Fact is your actions mean squat, your whole horrible grind is for nought because you haven't actually accomplished a single thing that anyone else couldn't grind.

    Welcome to WoW where everyone is a special unique flower

    pffff
    Edited by 1 at 26/04/07 @ 11:14
  • Femto #101 4 years ago

    Liked the titles you used in this article (Nine Inch Nails songs)!