Reader Reviews

By Tom Bramwell Published 19 January, 2004

First batch of 2004! Including C&C Generals: Zero Hour, Suikoden III, FFTA, Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna and plenty more.

Just before Christmas, I promised you a trophy of some interest when we returned. Given that I'm up against thousands of individual preferences, I've decided to play the odds a bit and offer up as many random odds and sods as possible unto the altar of giveaway. This week's winner, lucky so-and-so that he is, gets to pick from the following, with the remainder rolling over into next week's prize stash. Aren't I good to you?

What's on offer:

  • Dead to Rights (PC)
  • Gladiator: Sword of Vengeance (PS2 promo)
  • Total Club Manager 2004 (PC)
  • Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary Edition (PS2 promo... You can't buy this in the shops, either.)

Thanks to everyone who submitted a review. We'll be sure to publish some more of them in around a week's time.

The Rules

Reader Reviews should be submitted to contact@eurogamer.net, and can be written about anything you like - hardware, games, peripherals - even if we've already written about it. In fact, that's kind of the point! Your word limit is 300 although we'll tolerate a bit of overflow if you can string words together nicely, and please try to keep it clean and legal. Just like we do for you! The best candidate each week will receive a random bit of game-related tat (possibly even an actual game) as a prize. Lucky, lucky you. And of course, your work will be displayed for all to see.

Star Review: Suikoden III (PS2)

by itamae

1

Whenever Konami releases a game in Europe these days the usual suspects start moaning "And what about Suikoden III?" like Stadler and Waldorf from the Muppet Show. And while this may just be a Pavlovian reaction to the seeming unwillingness of Japanese producers to satiate our hunger for role-playing games of the saucer-eyed kind, I've battled my way through the US version of the game to give you an impression of what we are actually missing.

So what about Suikoden III then? The first thing you'll notice is that the game is split into chapters this time, with three protagonists to choose from at the beginning. Picking either female knight Chris, freelance mercenary Geddoe or Hugo, son of the Karaya clan leader, will give you a different perspective on the epic story which sets off on the brink of war between the Federation of Zexen and the free tribes of the Grasslands. As different as their motivations may be, it is up to our three unlikely heroes to settle this impending conflict before the land is ravaged by the opposing armies, all the while hunting down the Flame Champion, a mysterious figure who is said to possess the power of the True Runes.

Chances are that if you're still reading this you've played (and probably enjoyed) at least one of the previous games in the series, and you'll be pleased to hear that at its core the third Suikoden is very similar to its predecessors. While the role-playing element of the game once again boils down to the tried and tested formula of 'talk to everyone, then talk to them again', it is the little differences that make the Suikoden series stand out from the crowd. There is the combat for example, which mostly takes place in traditional random encounters with nice details like the flee command which changes to let go when your enemies are too weak, but occasionally you get to fight one-on-one duels or command larger troops in strategic battles. Although none of these tasks is really challenging, it is a welcome diversion from the repetitive (but thankfully infrequent) random skirmishes. And of course you get to manage your own castle again which grows bigger and busier as more and more of the 108 recruitable characters join your entourage.

Now before you run off to your local import games dealer let's have a look at the downsides of the game, and sadly there are lots on offer. The most obvious letdown is the lacklustre presentation, with low polygon characters who limp inelegantly through their featureless surroundings. Add to that a soundtrack which is so exceptionally bad that it makes you want to burn down the in-game music menu and sprinkle the ashes with holy water and you will have to admit that Final Fantasy this definitely is not. Furthermore the game suffers from balancing problems, with long cut-scenes often followed by extremely hard fights, or the queer fact that there seems to be no correlation whatsoever between difficulty and reward of a battle. And while most of the time the story is an epic tale of cold war, political intrigues and treacherous opponents unrivalled by other games of the genre, in the last chapter this plot is completely dropped in favour of a bog-standard 'pretty guys versus the world' affair.

In the end, the great storyline and some of the best dialogue I've seen in a game save Suikoden III from the pit of utter averageness, but it is nowhere as good as its predecessors. Maybe it is for the best that Konami has decided not to release the game over here, and hey - we got the sublime Silent Hill 3 first, right? You can stop moaning now, thankyouverymuch.

6 / 10

Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour (PC)

by Lutz

2

I'm a massive fan of Command and Conquer. I got hooked by Dune on my Mega Drive and I've followed the series ever since. It's with a small hint of pride that I say I own every C&C game and expansion pack there is. After the glory that was Red Alert 2 I was really looking forward to C&C Generals. Well, it ain't all that great, as the EG review here shows. Personally 6 out of 10 was a bit too high for my liking. It's a very nice game to play I feel, but stupidly easy and massively un-balanced. Great fun though, ploughing an enemy base with bombers, A-10s and a particle cannon. It took the biscuit though when I did the last USA mission in 30 minutes (Whilst showing off the different units to my cousin) and not losing one unit.

However C&C Generals: Zero Hour sort of fixes this. For a start, one thing that C&C Generals was missing was, erm, Generals. There were none. However they are in the expansion pack. And aside from the same General abilities each one also has a rather new way of altering the battle. For example, one of the USA generals can build tough planes and stealth Comanche Helicopters, but cannot build the tanks. Another one has increased super weapon production, and a different negative effect. There are nine generals, three for each side, and each one alters the game rather drastically. In a way you almost have nine different sides to choose from. Sadly the GLA is still stupidly underpowered, but they are a bit better to be honest.

The AI seems to have been sorted out somewhat too. In skirmish games the computer actually appears to pay attention and counteracts moves you might make, whilst attempting to exploit your general's weakness and try to blunt the damage from your general's strengths. Multiplayer would be a lot of fun too, as tank rushing is sort of pointless to be honest and a bit on the pricey side. A lot more tactics would be involved than other C&C games, which is a big tick in the "Pro's" list.

But is it worth £20, on top of the £35 for the original? Short answer, no. EA (Bless them) should have released this expansion with the original. Add the two together and that's what you should have had in the first place. If they'd done that then you'd have £35 worth of game (Well, maybe £30). But EA is the king of fleecers in the gaming world, and this is no exception. Despite fixing the original game you still can't help but think that you've paid for two games and got one in return. With the original C&C team now no more I think that this franchise is dead. Not that that will stop EA naturally, but it still feels dead.

8 / 10

EVE Online (PC)

by mustardkid

3

I'm definitely a gamer. I've played a lot of games... I've played(?) EVE Online, and to be honest I'm not sure that it's a game. For those that still don't know, EVE is what's known as a massive multiplayer online game - meaning that it's online-only, has many players, and it's, er, massive. It's been described in these pages as Elite online and sure enough it shares a lot of characteristics with the classic 8-bit space trade/combat/lifestyle title, but what I find more important is the characteristics that it doesn't share, and more of those in a bit. But first let's talk a little about EVE.

The first thing that strikes you is the visuals. It's gorgeous, the ships and star fields are beautiful to behold, in fact the whole thing reeks of class from the start. Then next thing that will strike you is the ease of use. As you are introduced into the game world by the opening tutorial any concerns about the complexity of the game melt away due to the intuitive and well laid out player interface. The next thing that will strike any right minded gamer is that... You can't fly the ships! Yes, you can't fly the bloody ships! You can choose a location from the map and warp to it, or click on a bit of space and watch the ship fly towards it, but you can't actually do any steering as such. This, for me, is a huge let down. Yes there is a potentially compelling Elite-style world of exploration and empire-building, which will appeal to many, but equally as many will be turned off by the simple fact that it all happens at a distance. To compare it to Elite is to compare, say, Tomb Raider to a point and click adventure. Harsh? Well, when combat comes down to selecting a target, switching on weapons, then going to make a cuppa while the game takes care of the rest... No, I don't think I'm being harsh at all.

The "skills treadmill" is another case in point. Yes, you need to earn money to buy new skills, but developing them is not dependent on the player's actions in the game world. To advance a level the player chooses which skill they want to train up, then after a predetermined time limit the skill is leveled up. You don't even need to be online for this to happen, so however much effort you put into playing you can't affect the speed to which you level up. This smacks of a cynical attempt to drag out the time-investment required and maximise the monthly subscriptions for players who are keen to make progress.

So on the one hand we have a beautifully realised universe with plenty of glittering prizes to egg the player on, but on the other hand a minimal amount of actual gameplay. It will certainly keep your eyes busy as you gawp at the beautiful visuals and it'll keep your mouse hand occupied as you pan the camera around said visuals. But for the most part your brain, reflexes and vast swathes of your time will be going to waste. Just thought you should know.

1 / 10

Unlimited SaGa (PS2)

by Stevas mkII

4

Right. Apparently, I can review anything I like. That's what the man said. Or woman, if you're inclined to believe there's such a person as Mrs Biscuit. Personally, I have my doubts. Trouble is, I'd much rather review something I dislike - just to be different - but I haven't bought any games I'm unhappy with recently. Nope. Not one.

That's a lie, that is. Who said that? Oh, it was me. Damn this conscience. Okay, I did buy Unlimited Saga - I admit it - and I spent very little time with it. There. I took it back. Very quickly. In short, should you wish to gain some sort of recommendation on a gaming purchase out of this nonsense, then you've already had it right there. The fact is, very few of these reader reviews are going to be of a recently purchased duffer, simply due to the mind-numbing obviousness that is this: we'd prefer not to spend time with them if we could help it. We don't get paid to, for a start. And who would possess the sheer stupidity to slate a game off with but less than a couple of hours game time under their belt? That'll be just me, then.

So it's pretty clear that any forum reader sending in a review is probably going to be doing so after extensively playing the game - don't you think? Conversely, I'd be suspicious of anyone who gives a scathing review, purely on the basis that I myself would not have been able to force myself to play anything I don't like for more than the amount of time it takes me to form an opinion. Normally this isn't very long anyhow, but when folding stuff has exchanged hands it becomes almost instantaneous. What would you say is the optimum time for effectively reviewing a game? Ten hours? More? Until completion, even?

When was the last time you played any game you didn't like for that long? It's why we trust the chaps who are paid to do it. That we assume they do actually play the rubbish to the depths we demand a critical analysis requires is testament to this trust. I'm not sure I could. So. Unlimited Saga, then. It's... tripe. Really. No, I have no justification for that one word review. I have no argument. If you feel the need to tell me I didn't spend enough time with it, I'll silently direct you to a seat I've reserved, just for you, as you joined us right in the middle of an exclusive screening of a short movie I like to call "You Got Me There, Keith, And... Pfffft - So What?"

What, you still here? Show's over, already! A what? A 'score'? You want a score? Okay, I give the central premise of allowing forum members to submit reviews a score of three lemonade shandies and a packet of salted peanuts. In short, it's a nice idea, but it's not as good as Halo. Unlimited Saga, on the other hand, I'd rate that mixture of mouldy lager and tab ash you sometimes get in pub ashtrays. If I was feeling generous - and I guess it is Christmas [ulp -Ed] - I'd throw in a two week-old salt and vinegar Space Raider. Happy now?

No score supplied (in the traditional sense).

Clock Tower 3 (PS2)

by David Kamkaze (Kami)

5

Hands up those who played the SNES original? Okay... I see a distinct lack of hands.

The original was released on the SNES in Japan only, and was the first visually impressive "Survival Horror". You controlled Jennifer around a big mansion, being chased by a single foe (Scissorkid) searching for your friends. It was simple, point and click, but definitely a benchmark for games to come. Ching!

After the blasphemy of Clock Tower 2 (It was worse than bad), the Clock Tower license was acquired by Capcom. Yes, the kings of survival horror bought the rights to the granddad of survival horror. Ching! (Hunh?)

I wasn't sold on the idea of CT3 to begin with, but actually it's a sound game and quite a departure from the Resident Evil series. You control Alyssa, who gets a weird letter from her mum telling her not to come home. Typical teenage girl, she goes home, and things go to hell. In a literal sense. Big Clock Tower appears and you just know Alyssa is in trouble this time... Ching! (What is that noise?)

Many find this game disorientating in the fact that Alyssa's main strength is hiding! Yes people, this is survival horror. Emphasis on survival. And what you get to defend yourself with is handled with typical teenage girl limp-wristedness - debate amongst yourselves if this is intentional or just poor design. You solve puzzles, solve mysteries and generally try not to be killed by the psychotic, demonic yet slightly predictable enemies.

There's also a lot in this game you'll note has been "borrowed". A statue of a woman bleeding from the eyes. A mirror image freezing still. But they don't dominate, and they never seem out of place. Ching! (Must be my mind playing tricks on me.)

Clock Tower 3 is not a game for those who like blasting an endless army of the undead. Above all else, this is more about brainpower and shocks than combat. But there are problems. You can easily muddle the controls and get killed in a blind panic. And yes, the story is so predictable at times, you'll wonder if they even bothered to try something new and innovative.

Sure, Clock Tower 3 isn't the innovator its grandfather was. And it's by no means the best horror game out there. But this formula works and if you like horror games, or just need an alternative to senseless slaughter of the poor undead, this is well worth a go. It's pretty, it's different and it's surprisingly fun to play. Don't expect anything earth-shatteringly different and you may even begin to love this game. Wait a minute... my reflection just stopped moving!

*CHING!*

AAAARRGHHH!!! [Reviewer is sliced and diced by scissorman. Review ends.]

8 / 10

Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna (PC)

by Gary Moody

6

Point. Click. Die. Not exactly the most highbrow concept ever to have graced the videogame scene, but past games like Diablo and, err... Diablo II have shown that it works.

It is fair to say that the above description sums up LOA perfectly. There is the odd respite where you get to shop, and buy that lovely looking leafy armour you were after, but the rest of the time is spent moving forward and killing stuff.

Stuff being the operative word. While some monsters make a reappearance from the original, there are a number of new ones. Mutated goblins, some rather fancy automatons, filthy lizards and baboons all make their debut. Also taking a bow is the new jungle environment, which is satisfyingly humid and leafy.

Which leads onto the original's selling point, the seamless environment. No loading screens means no breaks. When you promise yourself you'll quit at the end of the dungeon, you find five hours have gone by as you explore the swamp you just stepped into. Maybe you want to take your wizard to the next combat magic level, but then you want to do it with all your fighters. It takes hold and does not let go.

What shakes you loose is the plot, which fails to connect on any real level, and takes a back seat to the endless killing. The new spells add little, aside from the novelty of turning yourself into a huge troll. The huge amount of pots and crates to break will send you potty (Arf!). Aside from a few little tweaks here and there nothing of any weight is added to the original game.

Herein lies the rub. The original is included in all its glory. It even includes all the little improvements from LOA. Bigger, tougher and with a greater sense of adventure, this is the real meat of the package. If you have played through the original, then LOA is more of the same. But then, that's what you want, isn't it?

7 / 10

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (GBA)

by Lutz

7

I was really looking forward to this. Seriously. Golden Sun 2 had just been finished and I was revelling in a 16-bit era of RPG games, so to hear that a Final Fantasy game had been made in the Shining Force style had me all gooey and excited, as Shining Force is high on my "favourite games ever made" list. I needn't have bothered.

After finally getting the game I read the manual on the bus back home and was left totally bewildered. It reads like a Japanese VCR manual tome to be honest. Feeling a bit wary I gingerly put the game in. Pleasant graphics await me and it feels polished. Fears aside I get to the main menu and find a rather pointless few options of changing the colour from blue/green to green/blue. Skipping these I'm quickly on my way to what should have been a truly ground breaking title.

Couple of hours later I'm back to the Japanese manual again. Half the stats in the game are not at all obvious (TO for example) and I'm looking for any way to speed it up. The fighting, whilst simple enough, is beyond slow. It takes at least four, if not five commands to do a simple attack. That wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that each menu takes an age to pop up. The moving of the characters is slow, as is the battle animation. It all looks very pretty though. Oh, and it sounds nice as well. Swell. A pretty, nice sounding, yet very slow game. Yawn.

Click first menu. Switch on kettle. Click second menu. Put coffee in cup. Click third menu. Wait for kettle to boil. Click fourth menu. Pour water. Watch fight. Pour in milk and stir. Watch damage and experience details. Sip coffee. Rinse, wash, repeat. Admit self to hospital for caffeine overdose.

So, after this I thought a bit of a wander round town might be in order. Er... nope. There is no town to wander around, not as such. You select shop and you go straight to the shop and you're confronted with another menu. Menu menu menu. That's all this game is. One massive stream of inter-connected menus. Even the weapons are very stat-heavy, and I was so grateful that I'd played FFIX otherwise I'd never have figured out how to learn abilities from my manual. I'm still not much the wiser when it comes to the classes, all 36 or so of them. Imagine Championship Manager with swords, spells, monsters a plot and no nancy pancy footballers and you have the basic concept of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.

This could have been a great game. This should have been a staggering game. A game to possibly hold that title of "Classic". But a massively overwhelming beginning and a badly made manual (With mistakes no less) does not a classic make. Graphically and sound wise it's up there with the best of them for the GBA. Playability is rank though I'm afraid, and as such this is now back in its box and up for sale. Poor effort there Squenix!

3 / 10

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (357) Latest comment 8 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • FWB #1 8 years ago

    Lutz you busy boy.

    Finally tried out my... errr... copy of Generals. Looks like shit - had to turn everything down to get it to run - but its still good old C&C fun. Nothng new although the sides are a bit more varied. I like the GLA. Nice and sneaky, like the servant in Mr Deeds. Sneaky, sneaky.

  • Singularity #2 8 years ago

    Bit harsh on the fantastic FFTA there, Lutz.

  • Blerk #3 8 years ago

    Lutzie... you n00b. Too complicated for ya? Maybe Mario Party 5 would be a better bet? ;-)

  • itamae #4 8 years ago

    Star... Review...

    /faints

  • ssuellid #5 8 years ago

    Nice reviews, especially mustardkids.

    /wait for eve fans to form a lynchmob

  • kincaide #6 8 years ago

    Agree with Singularity - FFTA has been treated rather harshly there....

    ....but then, each to their own

  • thebuzzard #7 8 years ago

    I hated FFTA too. If you want a great GBA game get Mario & Luigi.

  • kincaide #8 8 years ago

    ...... I mean, I liked Apocalypse on the PS One, for example

  • pjmaybe #9 8 years ago

    Didn't know these were still going on...I oughta submit my Trackmania review...

    Peej

  • Razz #10 8 years ago

    /wafts itamae with smelling salts

  • Nemesis #11 8 years ago

    But is it worth £20, on top of the £35 for the original? Short answer, no. EA (Bless them) should have released this expansion with the original. Add the two together and that's what you should have had in the first place. If they'd done that then you'd have £35 worth of game (Well, maybe £30). But EA is the king of fleecers in the gaming world, and this is no exception. Despite fixing the original game you still can't help but think that you've paid for two games and got one in return. With the original C&C team now no more I think that this franchise is dead. Not that that will stop EA naturally, but it still feels dead.

    You cheeky lying GIT!

    You got C&C off me for £20 and I sent you Zero Hour for nout.

    He lies. He lies to us!

  • itamae #12 8 years ago

    /wafts itamae with smelling salts


    /comes to

    Cheers. Now about that Xenosaga review...

    /starts typing

  • yegon #13 8 years ago

    Have to agree with mustardkids Eve review. While I understand some peoples fascination with Eve, the month I spent with it I just felt utterly detached.

    /goes back to X2

  • Razz #14 8 years ago

    /Looks at itame

    If only he knew about Razz's dried version of the fridge cream...

    /Nods to Nemesis

  • Lutz #15 8 years ago

    Come on!
    I wrote at least 5 though, where's Elite and Y's and what-ever-the-other-one-was???

    :)

    About FFTA: It was the overall game that did it in for me. The manual was rank, the game was staggeringly slow. You were dropped in it with almost no help, excpet the friggin obvious of how to fight (Gee, press attack, pick an enemy, confirm. Not rocket science) but what exactly is a WTM with a little lizard type picture? The concept was great, but as far as stratgy games go there is so much better examples. All the Shining Forces, Vandal Hearts, even Front Mission 3.

    Excellent review on Eve too, although I'd give it a couple more points myself for what it's tried to do and the graphics... Still, fair points all of them.

    And congrats itamae! :D

    /runs off to write 6 more reviews.

  • Lutz #16 8 years ago

    Nem: Despite me getting it cheap I still looked in the shops and laughed. And if I got the game for cheap and it still felt like that doesn't that say something?

    It's a good game, plenty of fun, but not worth £55.

    Now, £20 maybe… ;)

  • Kami #17 8 years ago

    Ooh! My review!

    /dies again

    Bit harsh on FFTA... but yeah, whatever floats your boat. I happen to enjoy that kinda game...

  • yegon #18 8 years ago

    Two reviews there that captured my thoughts exactly. First Eve and then FFTA - I tried to like it, honest. Would have been ideal fodder for on the train, but like Lutz said, it's horribly set out in the beginning and positively DEMANDS a faq to play it properly. Consequently, useless on the train unless I printed one out (eep!) or resurrected my old Psion 5mx. Thankfully, I bought FFTA from GAME and got a full refund.

  • Nemesis #19 8 years ago

    Nem: Despite me getting it cheap I still looked in the shops and laughed. And if I got the game for cheap and it still felt like that doesn't that say something?

    I can't believe you bought it!

    /cashes cheque as fast as he can.

  • Blerk #20 8 years ago

    Why are you all having so much trouble with FFTA? Sure, it's complex but I haven't touched a FAQ (or the manual!) and I'm having no problems at all.

    Maybe it's all down to how your brain works?

  • yegon #21 8 years ago

    Yeah, but what the hell did some of the abbreviations stand for? My beardy love for crpg's was no use in deciphering them.

  • Lutz #22 8 years ago

    Erm... what cheque Nem???

  • Lutz #23 8 years ago

    Sorry Blerk, but that game needs a lot of work.
    There was about 4 SLD's, what the hells the difference? What did T.O stand for (I leanrt that out on the forum) why is it so slow? Why is there ONLY fighting? Why is the computer poo at fighting? Why only 6 guys on sreen at once?

    Sorry, but IMO the FF franchise has gone down hill. Fast.

  • itamae #24 8 years ago

    Blerk, I hope you agree that the controls in FFTA were needlessly complicated. An essential feature like checking the current laws during a fight shouldn't be hidden in a sub-menu. And while I didn't need a FAQ to actually play the game I got one to find out what some of the more obscure laws were about. The game would have been much better (in my opinion of course) if they had replaced the "you've already navigated several menus to select the option 'waste enemy with sword'. Do you wish to proceed?" dialogue with "You are about to break law 'xyz'. Do it anyway?".

    Just for the record, I like the game anyway (a lot even) and I don't agree with the final verdict, but I understand where Lutz's anger is coming from ;)

  • Blerk #25 8 years ago

    There was about 4 SLD's, what the hells the difference?

    Learnable skills? Various base stats? When you change jobs, the difference in stats is displayed (in red/blue like with weapons) so that you know what will change. Then you learn some new skills and that opens up the possibility to go to other new jobs, etc.

    As for a 'you are about to break the law, do it anyway?' option... didn't you all just complain that there were too many menus already? :-)

  • Killerbee #26 8 years ago

    Yep, I agree with pretty much all of Lutz's points, but I still like FFTA regardless. TBH I tend to pick it up, play one battle and then switch to something else, so I've never really felt bored by how long it takes to play.

    I agree I've got no concept of what the various job classes mean (apart from the obvious like Soldier, Black Mage, White Mage, Archer), but it's fun just trying them out to see what abilities you can learn.

    My approach is admittedly pretty unscientific - I just buy up what I don't already own from the shop and see what fits on my characters. If I'm not able to learn any new abilities with what I've got, I try switching jobs.

    My only problem with it so far is that I pretty much always use my first 6 characters - the newbies rarely get a look in, but maybe that'll change as I get deeper into the game.

    It's not perfect by any means - Final Fantasy IX was much better at dealing with the shopping and weapon changing aspects - it does bug me that you can't see by how much a new weapon has changed your stats - but then I suppose it didn't have the job classes to confuse things.

  • Lutz #27 8 years ago

    And don't forget lads, I'm an irritable git anyway. :)

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #28 8 years ago

    "I wrote at least 5 though, where's Elite and Y's and what-ever-the-other-one-was???"

    I figured it was best to split them over a couple of instalments - give you more of a chance to win!

  • Lutz #29 8 years ago

    Sounds like a plan to me Mugwum! :D

    Now… what's next…

    I've hardly got much worth reviewing aside from retro stuff. Was the other review Guardian Heroes? I can't remember.

    Oh I don't know.

  • Lutz #30 8 years ago

    Look at them all, the icklt tardies, can't take flak against there ickle game.
    At least the FF:TA fans didn't take it personally.

    /loads shotgun

  • bluebird #31 8 years ago

    Regarding the EVE review, I can see that the author was greatly disappointed, expecting Elite-like ship controlling gameplay. EVE is different , but combat is actually tactical and deep, especially when you do what EVE was made for: cooperate.

    However combat is only one of many many things you can do in EVE. He failed to mention the corporations, the research, mining, refining, hunting, trading, the market amazing market, the many ways to can tune your ship(s). But best of all is that EVE is very free, unregulated and truly feels massively multiplayer. The multiplayer part just works really really well. From the article of the author, I doubt he ever enlisted to a corporation and did some teamwork, or attained some of the bigger ships where both pre-engagement and engagement tactics become much more important.

    As for the skill system, I guess it's a matter of taste, but I love it. It makes EVE less of a time-gobbling game that demands ALL of your time (although you can play it that way), and instead it's a nice feeling to know my skill is gaining even when I am not online. It's actually realistic, as my character lives in realtime in the EVE universe and I instructed him to study material. Spending more time with EVE still pays off though, since you will gain more money, knowledge (there's lots to discover) and items more quickly, and the latter ships and items don't come cheap.

    So all in all, I think a 1/10 is very unfair. It speaks for the expectations and disappointment of the reviewer, but it does not represent the game.
    Edited by bluebird at 19/01/04 @ 12:05

  • Whizzo #32 8 years ago

    Well that didn't take long.

  • Stevas mkII #33 8 years ago

    Holy shit.
    Yeah, I'm with them, actually. He only played the freaking game for a month before deciding he didn't like it, then? Man. What right has he got to form an opinion, eh?
    And while I'm on, Lutz, I'm betting you didn't play FFTA until completion, so I am heretofore dismissing your review as utter blarcs.
    Jesus.

  • Blerk #34 8 years ago

    But surely a review is a chance to express your opinion... Why shouldn't he be allowed to do a review if he didn't like the game?

  • ssuellid #35 8 years ago

    There are quite a lot of Eve players who have been saying that its 'online Elite'.

    I was going to say read the Eve thread in the forum, but its been deleted.

  • Lutz #36 8 years ago

    Ah, but your Battleship hull is fake... it's in a game.

    Had the review been from the actual EG staff themselves for the purpose of reviewing the game for the business of EG then I'd say it was a bad review.
    However, this is a reader review, based solely on one persons expections and views of the game.

    I know that FF:TA is a good game, and in a true and un-biased review it should get at least 8/10, if not higher. Personally I thought it was shite. But that's just me.

    Incidently I've seen a lot of places comparring Eve to Elite, official places too, so why can't that be an expectation? Eve is far from Elite.

  • Lutz #37 8 years ago

    Have they Ssuellid? Jees. They need to go and play Elite then, it's a different genre FFS. It'l like comparring Tennis and Football. OK, they're both sprt, but still...

    And point well said Blerkie.

  • bluebird #38 8 years ago

    He should be allowed to write a review, just like we are allowed here to dispute it right? :-)

  • Errol #39 8 years ago

    Eve IS Elite for this age, imo. PC ZONE thought much the same thing.

    I have exactly the same feelings/thoughts playing EVE, as I did all those years ago playing Elite.

    Frankly, the reader review of eve on this page is so far off base, its not even funny. I'm not even going to begin to address it.

  • ssuellid #40 8 years ago

    Elite to me was mainly about the flying. The skill of docking without the docking computer, the space combat etc. Eve sounds nothing like it.

  • Errol #41 8 years ago

    One thing I will say about the eve review, is that it seems to have been written by someone who is about 12yrs old.

    Not really the target range for eve (Most players are 20+).

  • Lutz #42 8 years ago

    Sorry Errol, but I know at least 3 people who have played Eve who said it's nothing like Elite at all. FreeLancer is closer. Eve is a much more strategy/Tactial based game than either. IMO it's a different genre. It's like comparring a Tank Simulator with C&C.

    Psy Corp: Bollocks. EVERY game I play I enjoy every day after the initial "trail". I'm still playing Halo and still enjoying it.
    And if you have to work at it for 3-4 months before getting anyway… that's just wrong. Yes, the game progresses, but the beginning should be interesting too. Lets see, when it came out, £30. 4 months subs, about another £30. So basically £60 before you get any fun? WTF is the point? GO and spend that £60 on two other games and get fun right off!

    I'm certain Eve has a lot of things going for it. The Corp thing especially, but there is an awful lot of room for improvement by the sounds of it.

  • Stevas mkII #43 8 years ago

    Hang on, have I missed something here? This game isn't fun until you're three or four months in? Oh, I get it. You're talking about gametime - right? Please tell me this game doesn't force you to play it for three to four months IN REAL LIFE before it gets enjoyable?
    Hell, I've sometimes decided on whether I dislike a game after reading the instruction manual. You telling me a person ain't allowed to form an opinion on this EVE until they've played it for three months?
    By the way I was joking on my last post, Lutz. Nice review. Have to disagree with you vehemently on the score, but what's new about that, eh?
    THREE MONTHS?

  • Lutz #44 8 years ago

    One thing I will say about the eve review, is that it seems to have been written by someone who is about 12yrs old. That comment is so immature it's unbelievable. I really didn't think you could be so pig headed Errol.

  • Lutz #45 8 years ago

    By the way I was joking on my last post, Lutz. Nice review. Have to disagree with you vehemently on the score, but what's new about that, eh?

    Yeah I noticed Stevas, I recognise your wit right off now, used to it! :)
    Yeah, FF:TA, not for me, what can I say.
    Nice scoring system BTW. ;)

    Oh, and THREE MONTHS!? Jesus.

  • Singularity #46 8 years ago

    Maybe some of your seven hours a day should be spent with a dictionary.

    Just a thought.

  • renzo #47 8 years ago

    I agree with a few of Lutz's points in the FFTA review. It's a bit overly complicated in the beginning, and it doesn't ease you into things at all. They just throw a whole lot of menus and stats at you, and you're supposed to just make sense of it. Also, the fact that you can't wander around any of the towns makes the game feel like one long procession of menus.

    It annoys me when I think of how great a game they could have made. Maybe next time eh?

  • FWB #48 8 years ago

    Eve IS Elite for this age, imo. PC ZONE thought much the same thing.

    Close but not entirely true. There are many features missing from EVE - the flying of ships, for example. But are also many in EVE which weren't in Elite.

    Frankly, the reader review of eve on this page is so far off base, its not even funny. I'm not even going to begin to address it.

    I do find it a strange review. As someone else said the combat comment really isn't true. So you don't need to be an ace pilot in the FPS sense, but there is alot of strategy. Combining both would be great but if I had to pick one I would always go for the latter, something which EVE is better than any other space combat game I've played.

    Its a great game. I just couldn't keep up because it was sucking too much time away from me. If that's not a problem for you I highly recommend it.
    Edited by FWB at 19/01/04 @ 12:44

  • Lutz #49 8 years ago

    Psy Corp: Nope, I never get tired of a game. I can honestly say I can pretty much pick up a game that I've enjoyed right now and play it again and like it. But unlike you I don't hammer games. 7 hours a day? Hell, I've got a life thanks, girlfriend, house, work you know.
    So games last for me. As mentioned, Halo, I've clocked over 1000+ (I'm guessing 2,000+ to be honest) but I still play it and love it.

    Yes, playing witha group of mates ina Corp is a major appeal of Eve, can't fault it, but you need more than that. Whack up PGR2 or something, play with mates there, get Counter-Strike, work in a team. Both of those games have something else other than team play working for them.

  • Whizzo #50 8 years ago

    Elite is a space game that has similar aspects to EVE but is in no way comparable. To follow on from Lutz's comparison: EVE is to Elite what Championship Manager is to PES3.

    EVE bored me to tears it wasn't what I wanted from an online space game and I am quite happy that I never had to pay for the priviledge to try it.

    Elite is my all time favourite game, maybe X:online will provide a similar online experience but EVE doesn't.

  • Lutz #51 8 years ago

    Your spelling ain't that bad if English isn't your primary language, but your grammer is shite.

  • Singularity #52 8 years ago

    :D

  • FWB #53 8 years ago

    EVE is to Elite what Championship Manager is to PES3.

    That's a good comparison. I'd love to have both in the same game, but if I can't I will always go for the former.

  • Lutz #54 8 years ago

    Whizzo: Thanks, that's a better analogy.

    I'm also hoping X-OU will be online Elite. I don't think it will be, but here's to hoping. :)

  • Stevas mkII #55 8 years ago

    Holy twats, it gets worse. So, in order to begin to 'enjoy' this EVE, I must not only play the game for at least three months (I'll say it again: THREE MONTHS?), but I must also play it for seven hours a day?
    Sorry to go on, but:
    SEVEN HOURS A DAY?
    Please, do not throw around the term 'hardcore gamer' as if it were something everyone who plays games aspired to. I, for one, do not wish to be referred to as such. Playing games is not cool, despite what the media and Sony may have you believe. We're all still nerds (or geeks, if you prefer), regardless of how 'hardcore' you think you are. And besides, if the definition of a hardcore gamer is to play any game for 7 hours a day, then call me 'Mr Casual Gamer'.

  • Singularity #56 8 years ago

    There you go. That was a little better.

  • Lutz #57 8 years ago

    Psy Corps: Erm... no. Doesn't quite work like that I'm afraid.
    If I did 7 hours on a agame per night I'd be going to bed at midnight. As I get up at 6am and have to spend time with the girlfriend then I'm a bit screwed.

    And as Stevas said, 7 hours a day for 3 to four months is daft. That's 770 hours of game time for three months.

  • bionutz #58 8 years ago

    final fantasy tactics advance: I wouldn't give it that little, but it took me half the game to find out how abilities were learnt!!! This is not acceptable. Also, I got the impression every hit/spell was a real-word representation of a mathematical dice throw (er, which it is, but it shouldn't feel like it).
    I finished the game; one wastes a lot of time with one battle, even if you cut out all possible animations, so total time at end was 80hours - this is way too much for a game without a solid detailed story.
    I played this game as there was nothing better as RPG/Tactics for GBA right now, and it was kind of entertaining taking into account that I played it on the toilet or on my way home/work.
    Therefore Lutz, you're right in your arguments, but the game is a good game.

  • itamae #59 8 years ago

    lol

    Now I get it...

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #60 8 years ago

    "well.. seems eurogamers is quite a lame site, where someone can post a review and use screenshots from beta phase.. (eve)"

    I'm so glad that I put the EVE review in with the others. I'm having so much fun! You should see some of the emails!

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #61 8 years ago

    The EVE online 'tards attack! Superb...

  • Blerk #62 8 years ago

    That's a very scary board you linked there, itamae... :-)

    Come on, mugs - publish the emails.

  • ssuellid #63 8 years ago

    Any chance of some more reviews mustardkid? My top review for the day.

    That board looked a bit scary. Is Isla one of your characters Errol?
    Edited by ssuellid at 19/01/04 @ 13:36

  • eviltobz #64 8 years ago

    i wanna throw my defence in for mustardkid's review of eve, addressing a couple of general point made here:

    "Yep everyone is entitled to their opinion, but try and judge a game on it's merrits, and not on misconceived perceptions you had before entering the game."

    i'd say its fine to judge it that way as long as you make it obvious that is where you're coming from. his review is a great one to read for anyone who's thought that they might be able to pick up eve and be staight into an elite style piloting space trader/combat/thingamy. it will make like-minded people think twice before making such an outlay


    "The single biggest problem with this game is its non friendly nature to lazy reviewers. Claiming to have some authority to judge a persistent game with a few days of play is utterly irresponsible."

    okay, firstly this is the reader review page, so id not really refer to him as a reviewer so much as a gamer. he bought eve to play on his own time. if he plays it for a short time and doesn't get grabbed by it, fine. were it a professional review to dismiss it so quickly would be unprofessional, but as a paying gamer i'd have to say that your perspective changes, if a game doesn't grab me quickly its going to get forgotten about. it doesn't matter how much other people like it, i can't be bothered to pour my time into something that aint gripping me.

    by all means defend your opinions of the game, tell people whats good about it, and point out factual inaccuracies of the review (like combat strategy) but don't dismiss his opinion because he couldn't be bothered to stick with it. plenty of other people would doubtlessly feel the same, and from what i've seen of it on my housemate's pc i'm probably one of them.

  • FWB #65 8 years ago

    I'm so glad that I put the EVE review in with the others. I'm having so much fun! You should see some of the emails!

    Oh please post them! If not here at least in the forum.

  • ssuellid #66 8 years ago

    If mustardkids review of Eve hasn't put you off then surely the majority of the responses from the Eve fans would have?

    Would you want to play online with them?

    Well done on putting people off.

  • FWB #67 8 years ago

    Thunder! Thunder! Thunder! Thunder Child are whores!

    So what were you expecting?

  • Lutz #68 8 years ago

    That's a good score for GTA3 I'd asy, but what do I know, I've given a C&C game 8/10!

    Oh how I laughed!

    Eve just lost what little credibility I had for it. Total tard city.

  • Lutz #69 8 years ago

    From their forums:
    Keep reading the article...the guys a ****ing moron. Eve on graphics alone deserves way the hell better than a 1/10. And anyone who rates Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced 3/10 needs to taken outside and recycled. The only thing i agree with him on is that unlimited saga is a pos. But really who does these stupid reviews? a six year old with the attention span of a chimp? Eve a 1/10 indeed...i wont even go into FFTA.
    Would seem that they've not figured out that different people have reviewed different things.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #70 8 years ago

    "Come on, mugs - publish the emails."

    I couldn't, but if you're interested one of them did just call me "the sweaty armpit of the most hairest buffon!"

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #71 8 years ago

    "1.55 million sales+ is kinda hard for a 3/10 game"

    Clearly this man has never played Enter The Matrix!

  • FWB #72 8 years ago

    you must be quite important on this forum coz you believe anything that comes into your head is worth the board knowing about.

    You've made more comments here than I have and I even defended the game. Do you read what others post? :)

    Where were these people when I was playing? Apart from the Pkers all I ever stumbled across were kind and helpful players.
    Edited by FWB at 19/01/04 @ 14:26

  • Lutz #73 8 years ago

    Yes. You're right. I don’t like RPGs. Oh how I hate them.

    Pur-lease...

  • Lutz #74 8 years ago

    Aww... why not mugs??? Please???

  • Stevas mkII #75 8 years ago

    I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the fact that at least one of these colons agrees with me on SaGa.
    Fair play to the guy, his review of EVE may or may not have been fair (not having played it I'm not sure, and nor do I care), but I shall be forever grateful for his throwing a rock at this particular hornets nest.

    Man. I'm almost tempted to go get me a wrestling game just so's I can write a scathing reader review of it, and...
    Hang on. Who needs the game?
    (Ahem)
    [Puts 'rev-you-are head' on]
    So, wrestling, is it? I'll put my opinions on the actual 'realism' of the so-called 'entertainment' that successfully masqueraded as a 'sport' for years to one side, and just come out and say it from the start: [insert name of wrestling game] is shite. As are they all. Bring it on.

  • Lutz #76 8 years ago

    Oh sorry. Is it not you're personally opinion on this forum? Have you changed your mind since then?

    Can I have your permission please?????????

  • yegon #77 8 years ago

    Ironic that people dismissing the review, making disparaging remarks about EG, and generally breaking the glass in the tardometer fail to focus their attention on the fact it is a READER REVIEW!!! Care to have a brief foray into the forum and you will quickly find a huge thread devoted to Eve, and a whole number of people who rate it highly...in THEIR opinion.

    Myself, I didn't like it, to get my moneys worth I played it for a solid month simultaneously with my bro, joined a corp etc. but try as I might, it just didn't ensnare me. Contrary to what some people have been saying the review DOES have some merit - there is no escaping the fact there are a LOT of people who bought and played Eve under the misguided conception that it was Elite Online, and ultimately left disappointed. If you think its like Elite you sorely need to revisit the original Elite, as the years have clouded your judgement.

    I'm not bashing Eve, its obviously a deep, rewarding game to some people, but the review IS a fair reflection of SOME people's experience with the game - an experience of utter detachment in my case.

    Edited by yegon at 19/01/04 @ 14:32

  • Tiger_Walts #78 8 years ago

    Did someone mention wrestling?

  • Stevas mkII #79 8 years ago

    Shit. Did I do sumfink rong?

  • yegon #80 8 years ago

    >>>>The eve review is retarded, you obviously dont have patience or a brain

    Damn! There goes *another* tardometer! Must order some more...

  • otto #81 8 years ago

    /pokes his head round the door, sees a big pile of handbags

    Good grief. What happened here? Why didn't my Animal Crossing reader review spark a similar riot? It's not fair! mustardkid has all the fun!

  • FWB #82 8 years ago

    Blade Durrant: Oh boy am i ****ed...not only does the sodding ******* insult the game horribly, but he has forum access AND COPIED MY POST FROM HERE TO THE EUROGAMERS review post. Frigging plagarising son of a *****.

    lol.

  • yegon #83 8 years ago

    I'm just surprised no ones asked about motorbikes yet.

  • one-eye #84 8 years ago

    Me, never played EVE, probably never will ! However a man is still entitled to an opinion be it good or bad, why can't you invading chimps even see past this basic premise ?

  • Errol #85 8 years ago

    Don't open the box .........

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!! ...

  • Lutz #86 8 years ago

    Captain Jack, 'friad so mate. People like that exist. In some countries people like this have guns. And yes, they can pop a cap on yo ass.

  • itamae #87 8 years ago

    What amazes me most is the fact that there has already been a reader review of EVE on this site a while back (if my memory doesn't fail me completely) which spoke highly of the game.
    I don't remember any of these guys in black coming over to congratulate the author back then.

    By the way, I really liked the Clock Tower 3 review. I thought the game was more like Resident Evil, but obviously it's closer to Silent Hill and Fatal Frame. Might pick this one up if I can find it anywhere.

  • jimmyjimbob #88 8 years ago

    On another plus point, I guess sales of Eve are still pretty poor, as play.com are selling it for £10 now.

  • Lutz #89 8 years ago

    Oh god not all that "/emote" business to. The use of a pointless word...

  • Lutz #90 8 years ago

    Thunder Child: By all means make comments. But make them mature. Comments like: He must be 12 years old etc. are very far from mature.

  • Shinji #91 8 years ago

    BTW, ****nuts. I didnt appreciate u copying my post in teh EVE online forusm. What i say there is my personal opinion and not for repost on OTHER BOARDS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. So **** off a**hole. And learn how to take criticism you ****ing plagarising piece of ****.

    This post is even funnier when you consider that we don't actually censor these forums, so he typed all those asterisks himself :)

  • itamae #92 8 years ago

    On another plus point, I guess sales of Eve are still pretty poor, as play.com are selling it for £10 now.

    Ahem, they also sell Operation Flashpoint GOTY for £7.99 (or so I've heard). And that's a million-seller.

  • Lutz #93 8 years ago

    * so unless you've played one for over a month you are not qualified to give a fair review *
    Anyone is entitled to give an opinion.

  • yegon #94 8 years ago

    >>>>Thunderchild : Most people have understood a person is allowed to have a view and make it a review, what other people do not seem to have understood is those that have differing viewpoints are allowed to make comments on that view here.
    ----

    Then why do you persist in personal attacks about age groups etc, completely unrelated to EVE? Or is a census the latest new content in EVE?

    Kettle/pot/black methinks.
    Edited by yegon at 19/01/04 @ 14:52

  • Shinji #95 8 years ago

    Can we get an estimate as to how long the reviewer played the game, and if they joined any corporations?

    Probably not very long by the looks of it. I'd like to point out AGAIN for the hard of thinking on this thread, that this is NOT an official Eurogamer review... And am I the only one who thinks that a tongue was firmly lodged in a cheek somewhere along the line here? :)

  • Shinji #96 8 years ago

    I am better than you at the personal attack thing so dont start.

    He didn't start. He told you to stop. Now I'm telling you to stop too. If you want to have a discussion, fine; if you want to chuck around immature insults, don't even bother.

  • Lutz #97 8 years ago

    This is the best laugh I've had in a while.

    Voss: I'm glad you're around, at least not all Eve players are narrow minded. You make some good points there.

  • ssuellid #98 8 years ago

    Is it half term?

  • otto #99 8 years ago

    Mugwum
    19-Jan-04 14:21:22

    "Come on, mugs - publish the emails."

    I couldn't, but if you're interested one of them did just call me "the sweaty armpit of the most hairest buffon!"

    Nice of your mum to e-mail you at work wasn't it mugs? :D

  • Blerk #100 8 years ago

    Might pick this one up if I can find it anywhere.

    Play were doing Clock Tower 3 for about sixteen quid last time I checked...

  • jimmyjimbob #101 8 years ago

    Ahem, they also sell Operation Flashpoint GOTY for £7.99 (or so I've heard). And that's a million-seller.

    Yeah, it's also pretty damn old to say the least. Considering eve are still trying to sell it on their site for 35 euros doesn't look too good to me

  • itamae #102 8 years ago

    itamae, I've commented on previous threads here concerning Eve, so be a good member and check things before you type them.

    Sorry, I stand corrected then. In my defense I can only say that I tried to find that review again, but it wasn't listed in the archive.

  • Tiger_Walts #103 8 years ago

    Things haven't been this exciting since Halo received 8/10...

    oops

    /tries the separate the cat from the pigeons

  • yegon #104 8 years ago

    Its funny, when I did play EVE there were lots of friendly, helpful people which isn't reflected in this thread at all.

  • Lutz #105 8 years ago

    Voss: I've read your forums, they're bad enough! :D
    I too think that 1/10 was harsh, but then it wasn't my review. The readers review section is only designed to give people a chance to express their views on a game. Mustard Kid think it's bad and says so. What is irritating is that many eve players simply cannot accept it as his opinion. Personally I love a lot of games (Yes, C&C included for whoever made the comment on your forums) but I've seen a lot of flak that games I like get (Like Halo) and whilst I don't agree with the opinion I can certainly accept that they have an opinion.
    I may be trying Eve online soon myself, depending on if X2 is good or not, and if I do I'll play the game for a fair while, then I'll do a review as well no doubt.

    The main point I have to stress about Eve though is that it was the next Elite. Sorry, no chance.

  • Pirotic #106 8 years ago

    great Eve Online review, for a moment i felt like i was the only one who didnt 'get' the appeal of waiting while watching pretty stars fly by

  • otto #107 8 years ago

    Any chance of archiving old reader reviews? It's not the first time people have gone looking for old ones.

  • Mike_Hunt #108 8 years ago

    Lutz said: Personally I love a lot of games (Yes, C&C included for whoever made the comment on your forums) but I've seen a lot of flak that games I like get (Like Halo) and whilst I don't agree with the opinion I can certainly accept that they have an opinion.

    So why, when I said that "the 2nd half of Halo is the basically the first half played backwards" did you down your pint of Guinness, smash the pint pot on the table, and try to glass me in the face?*


    *This may or may not be an exaggeration of what truely happened

    [MH]

  • eviltobz #109 8 years ago

    otto - it might happen if rauper's plans to get us 1337 c0d3r types to work on the site ever get off the ground.
    Edited by eviltobz at 19/01/04 @ 15:17

  • Lutz #110 8 years ago

    Why MH, that was to improve your looks mate. :)

  • Mike_Hunt #111 8 years ago

    Why MH, that was to improve your looks mate. :)
    You were downing pints to make me look more attractive?!

    I didn't realise it was *that* kind of meeting!

    [MH]

  • Lutz #112 8 years ago

    Why else would I meet you in a back street bar wearing nothing but pink suspenders?

  • Errol #113 8 years ago

    Here, here.

  • otto #114 8 years ago

    badharlequin, read the following words very carefully, and memorise them:

    NO-ONE CARES

  • Mike_Hunt #115 8 years ago

    Nothing but pink suspenders eh? Well I guess that partly explains the size of your package...

    Anyway, on a completely different note... button mushroom anyone?

    ;)

    [MH]

  • Lutz #116 8 years ago

    Hear, hear...

  • Lutz #117 8 years ago

    Cheers.

    /eats mushroom.

    ;)

  • jimmyjimbob #118 8 years ago

    LOL @ otto

    Must say this article made my day go a bit quicker, thanks to EG for messing about with the EVE gamers :)

  • Errol #119 8 years ago

    Otto wrote -

    badharlequin, read the following words very carefully, and memorise them:

    NO-ONE CARES

    Not entirely true of course, as I am sure the 50,000 eve account holders would point out.

  • Whizzo #120 8 years ago

    As this has now become about a disagreement involving EVE isn't it time for the whole thread to be deleted?

  • Singularity #121 8 years ago

    No! This. Is. Brilliant.

    Oh, and: Is it half term? is pure genius.

    /Claps Ssuellid

  • Lutz #122 8 years ago

    LOL @ Whizzo!

    Errol, 50,000 for a game that is solely online is pretty poor IMO. Thought it would have been better than that, considering you've got the UK, Europe, USA...

  • Errol #123 8 years ago

    It is more than enough to keep the game going for the next couple of years, which is all I care about really.

  • UncleLou #124 8 years ago

    Despite fixing the original game you still can't help but think that you've paid for two games and got one in return

    Does it also improve the single player campaign of the original game, Lutz? Because the game and expansion hereabouts are sold at your suggested price point. :-)


    Oh, and lol@WHizzo.

  • Lutz #125 8 years ago

    So what's gonna happen in a couple of years then?

  • Lutz #126 8 years ago

    UncleLou: I'm not sure to be honest. I doubt it. I've only played the original campaign without the expansion pack.
    There are 5 (or 7, I forget) new missions per side in Zero Hour though.

  • UncleLou #127 8 years ago

    Cheers. The strange thing is, I've rented it once but can't quite remember what I though of it, and how many missions I've played. Worrying.

  • jimmyjimbob #128 8 years ago

    lutz said :

    So what's gonna happen in a couple of years then?

    Maybe they'll actually get all the features that they promised shortly after the beta was completed??

  • mustardkid #129 8 years ago

    whoops.....

    well if you want to pay a monthly sub to spend half yer free time tweaking a camera then i guess thats up to you

  • FWB #130 8 years ago

    And am I the only one who thinks that a tongue was firmly lodged in a cheek somewhere along the line here? :)

    I have no doubt that mustardkid did it to counter the EVE bombardment (1/10, serious?). I just don't think s/he expected Errol's minions to invade.

    "I don't remember any of these guys in black coming over to congratulate the author back then."

    Its a race thing too? Think of the Haitians! Oh will someone please think of the Haitians?

    I am so gonna be writing an Eve review.
    Edited by FWB at 19/01/04 @ 16:12

  • Whizzo #131 8 years ago

    Hmm bad harlequin you posting the same thing twice has now convinced me that EVE is excellent, I shall rush to Game after work and purchase a copy in the 2 for 30 quid offer.

  • Stevas mkII #132 8 years ago

    And where the hell do you think you've been? Look at the trouble you caused. No supper for you, young man(er.../woman?). Straight to bed with you.

  • Killerbee #133 8 years ago

    Our hero returns!

    /salutes mustardkid

    Good work fella! There's a good hour of comedy reading here. :)

    /lurks some more

  • UncleLou #134 8 years ago

    otto: thanks for your insightful, well-thought-out rebuke to my assertion that lies are not the proper way to review a game. Thanks! Go back to CS, thou muppet.

    It's not fair towards Harlequin, who of course doesn't know otto, but: ROFL!

  • sam_spade #135 8 years ago

    I'm so glad I gave up playing Eve.

  • Mike_Hunt #136 8 years ago

    There's also a minority of apparent EG regulars displaying nothing better than haughty intellectual arrogance

    Welcome to Eurogamer. May your stay be much like a certain part of your anatomy, short and rather unpleasant!

    [MH]

  • Lovemoose #137 8 years ago

    This has cracked me up - I've never found something so funny in ages!

    Points I'd like to raise....

    - Eve's been widely touted as "the new elite". It patently isn't; it's simultaneously better and worse than that classic. Better, in so much as it's graphically beautiful, socially involving, and even more open-ended; it's also worse, because it doesn't have the direct connection with your ship that piloting your first cobra mkiii gave you. I was let down when I tried eve, because I wanted to recreate the thrill of docking at leesti for the first time, followed by the thrill of raising enough cash to buy a docking computer so I never had to do it again...

    - Some people like different styles of game. That doesn't give anyone the right to personally attack or insult them for that choice, much as i wouldn't insult anyone for their choice of car, beer , or girlfriend.

    - I don't agree with the low score mustard gave eve, but I absolutely defend his right to express his opinion about it - not once did he insult eve players, he merely criticised a game for not coming up to his expectations. He deserves none of the insults bandied about here, and neither does eurogamer as a site.


    - I respect errols opinion on many things, but I call into question the 50,000 subscribers figure. I logged on last monthe to take part in a "mass log-on event" and failed to see more than 4000 on at once. Frequently, the figure was more like 1500-2000. (feel free to correct me on this though, i'd like to see more accurate figures)

    - this one made my blood boil... "What i say there is my personal opinion and not for repost on OTHER BOARDS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION." I'm sorry. The internet is public medium. If the quote was from a private, password protected board then maybe i'd agree, but once you've said something on a public board, it's akin to shouting it from the highest mountain: you ain't ever gonna take it back, and throwing your toys out of the pram ain't gonna make it any easier for you.

    - finally... THREE MONTHS????!!!!


  • otto #138 8 years ago

    otto: thanks for your insightful, well-thought-out rebuke to my assertion that lies are not the proper way to review a game. Thanks! Go back to CS, thou muppet.

    ROFL! You will never find anyone less likely to play CS than me, that I can promise you.

    Um, anyway, my point. Yes. You see, it's a 'reader review'. The subjective opinion of one person who has no pretensions to be anything other than a person who played a game and thought he'd share his opinion. I don't understand why you're all getting so worked up about it! Clearly his 1/10 was a joke. Scores don't matter even when 'real' reviewers give them, why on earth should anyone care about a score in a reader's review? In summary, NO-ONE CARES. :p

  • mustardkid #139 8 years ago

    well if someone had told me that it takes 4 months to "get good" i would have carried on not enjoying myself a bit longer. i did actually quite enjoy it for a couple of weeks then i realised that
    a. i was spending a good portion of my evenings tweaking a camera and gazing vacantly at my monitor.
    b. progressing in the game is mainly down to how long yr account runs for . you can't make any upgrades without first gaining the appropriate skill. even if you've worked hard and earned lot of game currency you can't buy equipment and use it unless you've also skilled up ... this takes real earth time and real earth money ..... you see what the cynic in me is thinking?

    ps i'm 12 and a HALF

  • Lutz #140 8 years ago

    Lovemoose: Last point, LOL!!! I didn't expect that one. :D

  • Stevas mkII #141 8 years ago

    *cough* haughty intellectual arrogance *cough*
    Mr Review err?, if I could just introduce you to a certain Mr Kettle, whose complete lack of pigmentation I am sure you are aware of; insofar as you claim, indirectly through implication, that it be so different from your own?
    Oh, please. If any of you believe there is any debating going on here, then it appears the vast majority of the EVE cognescenti are very much more deluded than this thread has led me to believe (which, on quick review, takes some doing). As far as I can make out, there are just a lot of petulant children around who, rather bizarrely, can't handle critisism aimed at a piece of entertainment they happen to enjoy. Were any of you to have had the least bit input into the creation of EVE, then maybe (that's MAYBE) I could understand the nonsensical attitudes on display. This guy is a READER who submitted a REVIEW of a game he DIDN'T LIKE.
    DEAL with IT.

  • Stevas mkII #142 8 years ago

    Heh. Sorry, but it really can't be said enough, as far as I'm concerned.
    THREE FUCKING MONTHS?

  • Tiger_Walts #143 8 years ago

    "I wanted to recreate the thrill of docking at leesti for the first time, followed by the thrill of raising enough cash to buy a docking computer so I never had to do it again..."

    I had the docking down to a fine art, the only reason for getting the DockCom was so that you could waltz around the room as Strauss' The Blue Danube played.

    /rose tinted specs

  • Singularity #144 8 years ago

    Hehe. He said 'wang'.

  • Mike_Hunt #145 8 years ago

    Well, with such eloquent and polite people as you here, answering my discussion with wang insults, why on earth would I want to leave?
    Thanks for proving my point that the EG community has its share of stupid flamers who will defend it against anything too.

    Hiiiiithangggyouu!!

    I did consider being the 50th person to try and explain to you that this is a Reader Review section, where people submit their opinions, but, much like the fly and the red hot lightbulb, I fear that you just don't know when to quit.

    /flicks power switch

    Ah... peace at last

    [MH]

  • Lutz #146 8 years ago

    I think this is the best set of readers reviews we've ever had...

  • mustardkid #147 8 years ago

    me too :D

  • Whizzo #148 8 years ago

    Nothing to do with the fact two of them are yours then Lutz? ;-)

  • Stevas mkII #149 8 years ago

    I don't. I think they're crap. I give em 1/10.

  • mustardkid #150 8 years ago

    i'm not complaining .... you can say what you like ..... i'm just gonna line up my guns then i'm off for a cuppa

  • Blerk #151 8 years ago

    I've been busy this afternoon, so I'm currently dumping this lot to the printer so that I can read it later. :-)

  • Mike_Hunt #152 8 years ago

    I must have missed the point of this thread. Just as reviews are meant to debate the quality of a game, isn't this thread meant to be a place to allow readers to debate a review? Where are those pots and kettles again?

    Debate is welcomed. But simply repeating the same points again and again, and even duplicating the same posts gets a little tired, yes bad harlequin, I am looking at you!

    [MH]

  • eviltobz #153 8 years ago

    this one made my blood boil... "What i say there is my personal opinion and not for repost on OTHER BOARDS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION." I'm sorry. The internet is public medium. If the quote was from a private, password protected board then maybe i'd agree, but once you've said something on a public board, it's akin to shouting it from the highest mountain: you ain't ever gonna take it back, and throwing your toys out of the pram ain't gonna make it any easier for you.

    made even better by the fact that their board has extract from this thread all over it. nice double standards.



    okay, people have been talking smack all over this thread, but otto, you just took the piss with this line "ROFL! You will never find anyone less likely to play CS than me, that I can promise you." frankly, i'm offended. i reckon you're way out of line with this as you're much more likely to play it than i would. next geekmeet, you and i are gonna have words over this. grrrr.

  • yegon #154 8 years ago

    Who's going to provide the next controversial review? My day at work has FLOWN by.

    Curiously, I've derived more enjoyment from this thread than the entire month I spent playing Eve...

  • otto #155 8 years ago

    Heh, tobz, you are on sunshine, I challenge you to a not-playing-CS challenge! :p

    For the record, I think the EVE apologists are perfectly within their rights to debate the issue here on the comments thread, I also think that mustardkid may have done the game a bit of a disservice with his irreverent reader review, but it made me laugh and that's the main thing. For the third time, I find it hard to understand why anyone, EVE fan or not, would really care.

  • Tiger_Walts #156 8 years ago

    /begins a Halo is utter crap reader review

  • yegon #157 8 years ago

    >>>/begins a Halo is utter crap reader review

    Hey, I might fall to the dark side of the 'tard if they submit that...

  • Stevas mkII #158 8 years ago

    There's that word again. Debate.
    It's funny, but all I can see is a collection of sad fans of a game objecting to somebody else being allowed to voice their opinion of it through a louder set of speakers. Oh, and some others sitting having a chuckle at them.
    I leave it entirely up to you to decide whichever of the two camps you want to claim to belong to.
    Exactly, Otto. Who cares if he gave it 1/10? Really? Is it going to spoil their enjoyment of the game from now on? Are they going to be sitting there - don't ask me why, but I'm thinking in their Y-fronts - cursing, shouting "How DARE he give this game 1 out of 10!", while playing?
    Did his giving the game that mark cost them anything? I mean, if you were paying a subscription for Eurogamer, then perhaps you'd have a grievance, but the site is free, for fu-
    I'm tired.

  • otto #159 8 years ago

    /begins a Halo for Mac is actually a bit of a laugh reader review :o

  • Lovemoose #160 8 years ago

    /wanders back in

    To really enjoy this thread, you've got to read it for three months.

    /wanders back out again...

  • Lutz #161 8 years ago

    Nothing to do with the fact two of them are yours then Lutz? ;-)
    Not at all Whizzo... ;)

    I was refering to the comments though bud. :)

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #162 8 years ago

    I do worry that this will prompt a lot of deliberately nasty reader reviews aimed at provoking fanboys, and I will watch out for it chaps. Genuine grievances only, please!

  • yegon #163 8 years ago

    /crosses "PS2 is wank" review off to do list
    Edited by yegon at 19/01/04 @ 17:17

  • Pirotic #164 8 years ago

    if Eve is so good, how come all these 'die hard fans' seem to spend more time on the forums than playing the damn thing -

    oh wait, i know why - cos you have fuck all to do in the game and your just sitting around waiting for the next research to complete like the rest of us ;)

    get MSN, whack on a 'stars' backdrop.. and there ya go, Eve for a fraction of the cost.

  • mustardkid #165 8 years ago

    have i complained about critcism?

    and come on own up ... i bet you've snuck off for a cuppa in at least one battle aintcha :)

  • Singularity #166 8 years ago

    Mustard, they don't know what a cuppa is. Anyone have a TardTranslator v.1.20 knocking around?

  • sam_spade #167 8 years ago

    From what I understand these people spend *a lot* of time playing the game. We are talking almost constantly.

    So, I'm sure any slighting review is a bit like telling the pope God doesn't exist and he's wasted his life.

    And surely if the game doesn't pay out straight away that's a flaw of the game, not of the review. You pay a monthly subscription, surely you'd want the developers to hit you quick with some kind of action so you want to carry on.

  • Lovemoose #168 8 years ago

    "I do worry that this will prompt a lot of deliberately nasty reader reviews aimed at provoking fanboys, and I will watch out for it chaps. Genuine grievances only, please!"

    I can't help but think that the fanboy problem is exacerbated here by a major influence: the original review criticised a game that they have to devote very large amounts of time to and (more importantly) they're still paying for...

    edit: "So, I'm sure any slighting review is a bit like telling the pope God doesn't exist and he's wasted his life."
    I totally agree sam.
    Edited by Lovemoose at 19/01/04 @ 17:40

  • Singularity #169 8 years ago

    Some expressing the fact they have not had so much fun as this in a long time as reading this thread.

    Poor buggers.

    We don't want your pity. ;)

  • tannerd #170 8 years ago

    BTW, ****nuts. I didnt appreciate u copying my post in teh EVE online forusm. What i say there is my personal opinion and not for repost on OTHER BOARDS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. So **** off a**hole. And learn how to take criticism you ****ing plagarising piece of ****.

    This post is even funnier when you consider that we don't actually censor these forums, so he typed all those asterisks himself :)

    Even more funny is that he's copied his post from the EVE forum - exactly what he is complaining about. Although he presumably has given his permission this time.

  • Singularity #171 8 years ago

    Mustard, how long did you play eve online for?

    I have literally never been this happy. ;)

    The internet rules. Oh, sorry, the internet r0xx0rs.
    Edited by Singularity at 19/01/04 @ 17:44

  • mustardkid #172 8 years ago

    i played at least a month and went at it pretty hard playing as much as i could ..... look i hear what yr saying ... i really wanted to enjoy it too, but i felt that ide devoted enough of my time to it and had very little in return and thats what i expressed ....

  • tannerd #173 8 years ago

    I can't believe you didn't play it for at least 3 months!

    Does it have motorbikes?

  • itamae #174 8 years ago

    By the way, if anyone of you has a question/comment regarding Suikoden III (you know, one of the other games), please post it in the forum. I'll probably overlook it if you post it here ;-)

  • mustardkid #175 8 years ago

    so far i'm just surprised that noone has demanded that i qualify my statement that "i've played a lot of games" by listing each and every one of them ... but theres still time *sigh*

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #176 8 years ago

    "then turn around and give a game 1/10, that makes absolutely no sense"

    That's not necessarily true, and it comes down to how certain factors need to be weighted. DOA XBV, for example, looked fantastic but was dragged down by plenty of other factors. I can't comment on EVE but that argument is severely flawed.

  • mustardkid #177 8 years ago

    hmmmm i keep forgetting how much more important the score is than the words .... maybe i should review that "i only give 1s or 10s" policy that i have.

    yes i played it properly ... i enjoyed it for a few weeks i eventually bought a frigate ..... then my eyes glazed over .... GAH!

  • gogoGadget #178 8 years ago

    'I bloody hate impossible to kill end bosses that have
    stupidly ridiculous health bars and deadly attacks. i
    mean after playing a game thru to the end i'm usually
    just too frazzled to bother with them. i never finished
    parasite eve2 because of the stupid boss and i'm about
    to chuck in the towel with XIII cos of the mongoose.
    why can't more games have a relatively easy but
    spectacular end scene as a reward for getting to the
    end as opposed to some gruelling punisihing boss eh?
    i mean just racking up the bosses health bar and
    weapon damage is pure lazyness.'

    Remember this MustardKid? Looks like you can't handle a challenge...

  • Lovemoose #179 8 years ago

    "lol i just read the review, dude you can't judge eve combat based on your experience of combat with the tutorial bot ROFLMFAO!!! "

    So you're telling everyone that hasn't played eve that the tutorial will not equip you with the skills to engage enemies in game, or will give you no idea of what to expect when attacked?

    Sell it son, Sell it!

  • mustardkid #180 8 years ago

    ok busted...

    i'm a twelve year old n00b that just happened to see eve running on a pc in dixons window and rushed home to write a review of it on my pencil case.

    i can't handle a challange.

    i cnt barly typ

    i don't r0x0r

    certainly aint 733t

    and i smell of poo

  • jimmyjimbob #181 8 years ago

    You shouldnt be allowed to post review as you are obviously not a real gamer

    LOL that's good, so he doesn't get freedom of speech because in your opinion he's wrong!!

    To be perfectly blunt, he's summed up the worst points in the game in only 1 month. It took me 2-3 months to come to exactly the same conclusion as him. I was in a big corp, with a cruiser (3/4 of the way towards a battleship) so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about

    Problem was I kept listening to the people that said "it gets better soon" I wish I'd had the good sense to not buy this game, hopefully this review will make people realise it isn't for everyone
    Edited by jimmyjimbob at 19/01/04 @ 19:14

  • mustardkid #182 8 years ago

    what i like is that on the eve forum i get the blame for all the reviews and all negative replies in thread

  • Mike_Hunt #183 8 years ago

    Your review sucks .
    Excellent work there. Think that all up by yourself didja?

    You havent played the game at all .
    He clearly stated that he played it for a month... looky looky, other coments ^^

    Yes you can train skill faster using implants .
    F'nar f'nar

    Yes you can fly all ships if you want .
    You can command a ship to go to a location, but you are never in complete control of a ship.

    And as for the combat pay me a visit ill show you how combat is done .
    What is worrying is that I'm sure you could re-read that and not realise how sad that sounds.

    You shouldnt be allowed to post review as you are obviously not a real gamer .
    He's a reader... he reviewed a game... I think that meets the two major requirements...

    [MH]

  • Mike_Hunt #184 8 years ago

    what i like is that on the eve forum i get the blame for all the reviews and all negative replies in thread

    That's not all - I was late home from work because of a car accident last Friday... I swear that was your fault.

    [MH]

  • mustardkid #185 8 years ago

    and i accidently called blair a twat live on spanish t.v.

    madre de dios!!!

  • Harry  #186 8 years ago

    I had considered trying EVE but having read the thread linked to above where a bunch of retarded EVE players decide to "launch an attack" on this site one realises that it's just a game for dickless wonders. Shit what a bunch of tards.

  • commander dixon #187 8 years ago

    w00t !
    i nearly missed this one... :)

  • Mike_Hunt #188 8 years ago

    /pokes forum a bit more see if there is any life left in the Eve stinks thread.

    Harry go play with the dick you are so proud of and cut down on the name calling, you are both unoriginal and bad at it.

    And I suppose he should be taking hints from a true master such as yourself? Oh that "go play with your dick" comment had me rolling around on the floor, shaking with laughter. No, it did. Really.

    [MH]

  • Harry  #189 8 years ago

    "Harry go play with the dick you are so proud of and cut down on the name calling, you are both unoriginal and bad at it. "

    Q.E.D

    Oh dear they really can't help themselves can they? :o)

  • otto #190 8 years ago

    leaves out the point about the inaccuracies, which you chose to ignore.

    You missed the bit about me not caring then? o_O

    u r teh win :roll:

    Ooh - he speaks l33t! *ph34r*

  • lost_soul #191 8 years ago

    /Floats up to comments

    My god, it's full of tards...

  • Dirtbox #192 8 years ago

    Look at all the EVE tards!

    Shame its a SHIT GAME, eh?

    HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!11one

  • sam_spade #193 8 years ago

    But that review mirrors my experience with the game. For two weeks I played the game and I spent most of that reading a book or smoking cigarettes out the window.

    EVE is the antithesis of game playing, it's game watching.

    I've spoken to people who love it, got really involved in the game and their experiences all come to a head at one barrier.

    At some point it gets boring.

  • Dirtbox #194 8 years ago

    But seriously folks, it's a reader review. One persons opinion, not EG's.

    Can you not take a little critisism for your beloved game?

    Grow up and fuck off back to where you came from

  • Lovemoose #195 8 years ago

    My god, it's full of tards...

    That comment from lost_soul is one of the reasons I love eurogamer so much.

    ...I can tell from the tone of your voice, Tards, that you're upset. Why don't you take a stress pill and get some rest?

    Edited by Lovemoose at 19/01/04 @ 21:31

  • mustardkid #196 8 years ago

    if it'd had motorbikes all this could have been avoided

  • mustardkid #197 8 years ago

    ok on reflection the comment i made about combat strategy probably was a bit ignorant .... i should have said

    " combat for the fisrt month or so, comes down to selecting a target, switching on weapons, then going to make a cuppa while the game takes care of the rest... "

    is that any better?

  • Errol #198 8 years ago

    This comments section is huge. Testement to the massive scope and vision of EVE, I think.

  • Ginger #199 8 years ago

    goddamn, this has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read on EG.

    Thank you all for cheering me up after a rotten day at work.

  • Ginger #200 8 years ago

    And it's not even over yet!

    /grabs popcorn

  • mustardkid #201 8 years ago

    from the eve forum:-

    "Just remember, if his character is still around, its name is: NeonDevil
    I agree though that the shot looks pretty old
    --Missa"

    dunno who NeonDevil is but it certainly wasn't my nick .... wouldn't want to be in his shoes next time he logs on to play ....... think he may be making a lot of cups of tea

  • Harry  #202 8 years ago

    Mustardkid don't give in to the tards. Their level of debate shows EVE mist be the world's most simplistic game. That's probably why you aren't allowed to fly the ships. Because the average user judging by this thread is likely to crash into the nearest star every time they try to travel anyway.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #203 8 years ago

    "Just remember, if his character is still around, its name is: NeonDevil
    I agree though that the shot looks pretty old
    --Missa"

    This has to be the first time that gamers have hunted down and killed off a reviewer who slagged their pastime. Beautiful.

    Or, at least, it would be if they'd got the right man. I picked that shot randomly from the batch on my hard disk...

    Oops.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #204 8 years ago

    Reminds me of people harassing paediatricians :-)

  • mustardkid #205 8 years ago

    what they don't realise is that in 3-4 months time my review starts to get good. in fact they have no right to post an opinion on it till they've looked at it for ...mmm....about a year.

    stoopid n00b review judgers

  • BartonFink #206 8 years ago

    /flicks on kettle
    /opens packet of chocolate goldrain
    /settles down for the long haul

  • yegon #207 8 years ago

    >>>>>>This has to be the first time that gamers have hunted down and killed off a reviewer who slagged their pastime. Beautiful.

    Or, at least, it would be if they'd got the right man. I picked that shot randomly from the batch on my hard disk...

    Oops.
    --------

    Hahaha, thats funny.

    I, and many others, tried to calm the flames but they just cant get enough lol.

  • Harry  #208 8 years ago

    /sets up the wildlife photography hide
    /sprays tard repellent around the hide
    /turns on the IR camera
    /opens a beer

    Ah a long night of watching tards in the wild

  • BartonFink #209 8 years ago

    You tell em mustardkid where do they get off judging your review in a single day they should definately wait at least 3 months and then judge it. It's all about patience.

  • jiroczech #210 8 years ago

    Hey, mustard kid - solidarity brother! I played EVE for a month, and your review is spot on mate.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #211 8 years ago

    Otto,

    Just saw this.

    "Mugwum
    19-Jan-04 14:21:22
    I couldn't, but if you're interested one of them did just call me "the sweaty armpit of the most hairest buffon!"
    Nice of your mum to e-mail you at work wasn't it mugs? :D"

    I wish YOUR Mum would stop emailing me at work!

  • Lovemoose #212 8 years ago

    "I just look at the bad language and piss poor vocabulary skills"

    That, ladies and gents, is, i believe, the finest example of an oxymoron eurogamer has ever seen.

    Thank you Thunder Child... Now go and track down NeonDevil, make yourself a nice cup of tea, and click him out of the sky!
    Edited by Lovemoose at 19/01/04 @ 23:07

  • mustardkid #213 8 years ago

    this damn thread'll prolly take a couple of months to fully appreciate .. everytime i scan through another gem pops up i missed this cutting sideswipe earlier

    " you another one that run out of contents in his nose to play with "

    funnily enough when i was playing eve my nose had never been so clean ... plenty of good quality pickin time as you watch the stars sail by

  • Mike_Hunt #214 8 years ago

    I just look at the bad language and piss poor vocabulary skills,

    Piss poor huh? I say god damn bubba, I wish I had myself a vocab-you-lary like yours!

    [MH]

  • yegon #215 8 years ago

    Ladies (of which I doubt there are many) & gentleman!

    The year is not yet 20 days young and we already have an early contender for the coveted title of "'Tard of the Year" 2004!

    I give you

    Thunder..

    Thunder....

    Thunder Child!

    Any thoughts on the early nomination Mr Child?

    /hands over microphone

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #216 8 years ago

    All part of your master plan, eh? [winks]

  • mustardkid #217 8 years ago

    touche

  • yegon #218 8 years ago

    >>/picks up microphone

    Thankyou for nominating me for this award, I hope that in the teeth of what would appear to be serious competition I have done enough to annoy and aggravate you to the extent you will hand me over this award.

    It is wonderful to think that a few simple little posts have made you reach for your keyboards in such determined fashion.

    It has been all too easy.
    -------

    Bwahaha, fantastic! No offence, fella, but all I see in this thread is a few people, yourself included, getting in a tizzy about other peoples opinions, and a whole lot of others having a good ol' laaarf at your expense. Jeez man, show some dignity and quit while you're behind....actually dont, I'm hoping this thread is still alive when I get back to work in the morning.

    Goodnight, and hope to hear from you soon.

    yegs

  • Mike_Hunt #219 8 years ago

    grow up Mike and you never know you might manage it
    Manage what, exactly? That vocab of yours is shining through again.

    /hands over some punctuation to Thunder Child

    Go forth and use it wisely...

    [MH]

  • Mike_Hunt #220 8 years ago

    So sorry yegon if I made your post look a bit like the post of a lamer that was the last to spot the joke.

    Don't worry, your true lamer abilities haven't fully manifested yet. You'll just have to settle for making your own posts lame, it'll be some time before you can do the same to other peoples.

    You really think you made us angry? As we've been said many times, you've provided us with fantastic entertainment today. Please... continue.

    [MH]

  • Daryoon #221 8 years ago

    What does EVE stand for then? Comedy answers on a postcard please...

  • Mike_Hunt #222 8 years ago

    Like I said, if you'd actually used some punctuation in your post it might have been comprehensible.

    However, I really shouldn't expect much more - you quite clearly only have one free typing hand. You *really* are enjoying this aren't you.

    Has anyone officially claimed this one yet?

    [MH]

  • mustardkid #223 8 years ago

    can i just take this opportunity to remind everyone about this

    seems somehow appropriate

  • BartonFink #224 8 years ago

    Nope you want me to draw up the adoption papers Mike?

    This thread is fn hilarious.

  • BartonFink #225 8 years ago

    so I really am the only one that thinks Mike Hunt has taken it all a bit too seriously?
    Yup I think he has been doing an excellent job of extracting the urine for quite a while on this one.

  • striker #226 8 years ago

    can i just take this opportunity to remind everyone about this

    seems somehow appropriate

    erm..... ok.....

    nice example ;)

  • BartonFink #227 8 years ago

    I say to your first comment about the screen shot 'Big deal' and point you in the direction of this part of the review if you had even bothered to read it:

    The first thing that strikes you is the visuals. It's gorgeous, the ships and star fields are beautiful to behold, in fact the whole thing reeks of class from the start.

    On the second point after reading the review a few times now I still cannot get the point about bias. What flipping bias. He played the game and gave his opinion of the game as he saw it in the form of a review. That is what a review is somebodys subjective opinion of something i.e. what they thought from their experience. Thought the review was quite well written myself.

  • one-eye #228 8 years ago

    Keep Stirring, it's good to have you here. If tomorrow is a slow news day too, then the entertainment will be much appreciated!

  • Lutz #229 8 years ago

    3William56: Don't worry, this one is getting book marked for future entertainment!

    I'm tempted to buy a copy of Eve just to post on their forums. :D

  • BartonFink #230 8 years ago

    /sits back and awaits for entertainment brought to us by Thunder Child et. al.

  • Errol #231 8 years ago

    How long was the longest comments thread ever ?

  • BartonFink #232 8 years ago

    Dunno but this one is going to be right up there.

  • BartonFink #233 8 years ago

    So when are this lot due to turn up again. Suppose they have to get their 7 hours of pointlesness in first. ;)

  • Blerk #234 8 years ago

    My brain hurts!

  • Lovemoose #235 8 years ago

    Right. I've got a full day off, I've got myself a coffee, I've got thunderchilds link to dictionary.com ready to click, and I'm ready to help push this thread up to the 500 mark.

    "erm, oxymoron, contradictory terms are used in conjunction.

    It is a big long word you used, now come back and try it use it when you know what it means."

    doh, and I thought it was a name for an extra <em>special</em> kind of moron?

    (Y'know, the kind who criticise others' bad language yet use the word 'piss' in the same sentence...)

    I stand corrected on the literal definition then thunder, though perhaps if you look here you can see where i was coming from. Maybe you can come to the forum every week and help us resolve our bad language and piss poor vocabulary problems.

    I reckon you could get us all speaking the queen's in about, ooh, let's see, three months?


    edi: html trouble
    Edited by Lovemoose at 20/01/04 @ 08:58

  • Lutz #236 8 years ago

    Sorry guys, but this still isn't a patch on the Driver 3 comments section in terms of length.

  • BartonFink #237 8 years ago

    But this is in a single day Lutzy.
    A little more baiting is required methinks.

  • Lutz #238 8 years ago

    This is true Barton.
    I really could do with a copy of eve to test out just how poo it is.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #239 8 years ago

    Sadly I don't think the children will understand the screenshot business no matter how many times we explain it.

    Oh well.

  • UncleLou #240 8 years ago

    I think you'll have trouble finding a web site that gave X2 a better score than EVE, Lutz. ;-)

    To judge the game by the comments of a few guys that posted here (after being lured to EG by Errol) isn't entirely fair - it would have happened with every game with a community of a certain size. Thousands of EVE account members have not commented in here.

    Have all the fun you want in here, but to slag off the whole EVE community and the game is a bit silly. EVE is a debut project of a small team of developers, and if anything, we should be happy that there are developers out there that take the risk of such an ambitious project, even if it's not for everyone.


    Ok, you can go on now. ;-)

  • Lutz #241 8 years ago

    UncleLou: X2 just got 92% in a mag that IIRC gave eve 81%... :)

  • otto #242 8 years ago

    It's a good point Lou. I like the look of EVE, the way mustard kid describes it actually appeals to me. If I had the spare time I'd give it a go (but I don't). Certainly I don't judge the game by the way the fanboys have come to its defence. That'll happen with pretty much any game that has a devoted following. I still think the mongs that have come out here in their droves need a serious slap, getting upset about a bad 'official' review is one thing, getting upset about an obviously subjective reader's review is another. Mustard has only gone and injected a bit of balance after Errol's reader review.

  • Errol #243 8 years ago

    Eh ? I never did a reader review !

  • otto #244 8 years ago

    Who was it then? Someone did a glowing review of EVE.

    WE NEED THAT DAMN READER REVIEW ARCHIVE!

  • Tiger_Walts #245 8 years ago

    mustardkid, the easy way out of this is to tell every one that your score 1/10 is actually in binary, thus giving a rating of 50% ;P

  • ssuellid #246 8 years ago

    Otto, it was Mingster.

    I ended up using Google again.: -

    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=54038

    Amusing that the last post on that thread is by Otto

    "Guys - any chance of linking to an archive of old readers reviews? I can't find them. "
    Edited by ssuellid at 20/01/04 @ 09:39

  • Lutz #247 8 years ago

    Yeah, Otto's right, there was an Eve review that got about 9/10

  • yegon #248 8 years ago

    What have I missed?

    /rewinds

  • tiddles #249 8 years ago

    FWIW, I really enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - in the end I played it for 70 hours+, and I've only completed to the end of the story, roughly half the missions available.

    This is a game you enjoy in spite of the poor menus and generally confusing design. It really doesn't start well, and I'm still surprised I actually got through the first few hours without chucking it away.

    But once you start developing your characters' abilities, and experimenting with the different jobs available, it quickly becomes compulsive. I never looked at an FAQ until I'd finished the story, and I think that contributed to the experience - for me, working out what the f*&! the difference was between a sniper and an assassin became part of the fun.

    Actual battle strategy is pretty non-existant, basically boiling down to "twat it/them", but the range of stuff you can throw into the mix and build up is so wide that each battle is different, and you become very involved with the fate of your characters.

    Even a lot of the stuff which seems annoying or irrelevant at the beginning has an element of interest to it... for example, working out how many characters to have in your party is quite a fine art, and for some reason I got great pleasure from weeding out the under-achievers at regular intervals. When you sack them, they say stuff such as "I never liked you anyway", which helps.

    I'm not really disagreeing with Lutz's review, as everything he says is correct, but get past the first few hours (months?) and it could well hook you as it did me.

    Eve, on the other hand, is shit.

  • yegon #250 8 years ago

    Thunder Child wrote:
    "erm, yes I responded that post incorrectly and have blown my cover. I really should have ranted and raved till you imagined my eyes were going to pop clean from my head at any moment.

    Still one cannot get it right everytime.

    So sorry yegon if I made your post look a bit like the post of a lamer that was the last to spot the joke. "
    ------

    Damn straight I'm lame! Not only did I not understand your running "joke", as you affectionately call it, I was completely unaware there WAS a joke to comprehend.

    Scratch lame.

    I'm doubley lame, mate.

    You should be on the stage with your unique "humour".

  • Singularity #251 8 years ago

    1/10 is clearly a biased rating. If fact i can only think of a few games that would rate that low (riven, myst, etc.)

    OMG!!11! He insulted Myst + Riven!!! He's clearly biased!!11

    *Ahem*

  • Nemesis #252 8 years ago

    Did no-one go to bed last night?

  • ssuellid #253 8 years ago

    Doesn't look like it Nem. And it was a school night. ;)

  • Blerk #254 8 years ago

    To be honest, I've been quite surprised by some of the EVE revelations revealed here. I never realised, for instance, that you didn't fly the ships. With everyone (mainly Errol) going on about how it's 'Elite for the 21st century' I sort of figured it would be something like Elite. But it isn't - it seems to be more like a sort of space-based Championship Manager. Fair enough to those who enjoy that sort of thing, but to me it sounds... dull.

  • krudster #255 8 years ago

    Shitting Christ!

  • tannerd #256 8 years ago

    The funny thing is, I reckon most of these fan-boys were playing EVE at the same time as tarding on here....

  • Stevas mkII #257 8 years ago

    I remember once deciding I wouldn't like Golden Sun in the time it took me to take a dump (I read the instructions on the lav).
    (Ahem)
    THREE ARSEHOLEING MONTHS!?


    I WILL keep doing this.

  • Lutz #258 8 years ago

    Krudter, Jess is looking for you BTW. Think you're in the dog house. ;)

  • Stevas mkII #259 8 years ago

    Sorry, I forgot SEVEN HOURS A BASTARDING DAY!?

  • Tiger_Walts #260 8 years ago

    Looks like Kristan's back, you may find another shock in the forums matey.

  • Tiger_Walts #261 8 years ago

    tannerd: "The funny thing is, I reckon most of these fan-boys were playing EVE at the same time as tarding on here...."

    There are only so many cups of tea you can drink before you need to find something else to do during battles I guess.

  • Lovemoose #262 8 years ago

    "Shitting Christ!"

    See Kristan, That's what happens when you leave us to our own devices...

  • otto #263 8 years ago

    i can only think of a few games that would rate that low (riven, myst, etc.)

    Ah now I missed this. This annoys me. How many people do you think bought, played and enjoyed Myst and Riven? And how many people bought, played and enjoyed EVE? And yet these tosspots argue in the same breath that "5,000 EVE players can't be wrong"... If numbers are anything to go by, Myst and Riven are better than EVE by several orders of magnitude.

  • Nemesis #264 8 years ago

    You know, if Errol hadn't deleted the 100+ page thread on EVE we could show that EG has a very strong core of regular EVE fans.

    Personally, I enjoyed my time in EVE, but it's certainly not for everyone. It's a slow paced game. You will be making tea during some points. I can't see that as being a problem, necessarily.

    If you want 2001 go get EVE.
    If you want Star Wars go get Freespace2.

    MMORPGS are slow, it's the nature of the beast.

  • Lutz #265 8 years ago

    Also the Myst series has well over 1 million sales to its name. A little bit more than the poxy 50,000 playing Eve.

    EDIT: Yes, but all missed the "I" didn't you eh?! EH!? ;)

    Edited by Lutz at 20/01/04 @ 10:48

  • otto #266 8 years ago

    /phones the apostrophe police

  • Nemesis #267 8 years ago

    It's always been popular to slap down Myst, but it was stunning at the time.

    /gets all sniffy.

  • BartonFink #268 8 years ago

    Seesh when are they going to learn

    it's its not it's

  • UncleLou #269 8 years ago

    To be honest, I've been quite surprised by some of the EVE revelations revealed here. I never realised, for instance, that you didn't fly the ships. With everyone (mainly Errol) going on about how it's 'Elite for the 21st century' I sort of figured it would be something like Elite. But it isn't

    It entirely depends on what was it that you liked in Elite - the simulation of a Universe with dozens of solar systems, trading opportunities, ship upgrading devices - you'll find all that in EVE, and much more. Or the aspect that you manually controlled your ship. I dare say what made Elite a classic was rather the first aspect than the second, because "twitch" games had been there before. Fair enough if it's the combination of both that made Elite tick for you, but for me the simulation of a Universe where you're free to do whatever you like was the deciding factor.

    I'd also like to add that, for me, EVE does feel like you control a spaceship - not like you'd control an X-Wing fighter, but much like ships in Star Trek are controlled - by giving certain orders which the ship (or a crew, if you want) executes.

    So Mustardkid's comparison between Tomb Raider and a point'n'click adventure was indeed a good one - even if I don't agree with his conclusion concerning the EVE/Elite comparison. But why should a point and click game be worse than Tomb Raider?

  • otto #270 8 years ago

    Myst was stunning at the time, and even after you discount the eye candy factor the game was and is class. These people can't defend EVE on the one hand by saying it's a thinking man's game that doesn't involve runnin' & shootin', and then have a pop at Myst for being too cerebral.

  • Mike_Hunt #271 8 years ago

    Oh I see, Mike Hunt has been taking the piss, I thought he was just another witless fool that did not get the joke.

    I wise man once said "Who is the greater fool*, the fool, or the fool that follows him?"

    *replace "fool" for "tard" where appropriate.

    I pop in here every so often to stir up this cesspit of a thread and see what lumps float to the surface.

    /stirs some more

    You would happen to be big, green and answer to the name of Shrek would you? I'm sorry your "This is ere is mah swamp" sign must have fallen down...

    [MH]

  • Blerk #272 8 years ago

    Nah, UncleLou - Elite was great because of the combination of everything. It made you really believe that you were there - in that ship! You did what you wanted, you went where you wanted, you chose to do what you wanted to do. If you wanted to trade - great! If you wanted to just shoot stuff - also great! If you wanted to see how close you could fly to the sun - that's fine too. Want to try to perfect diving into a planet's atmosphere and hyperspacing at the very, very last minute? Lovely.

    EVE may very well be a great game, but it's only like one part of Elite. And sadly, all the other bits were part of the package for me.

    /goes off to play Elite
    /remembers he's at work

    Fudge!

  • eviltobz #273 8 years ago

    good call blerk. for something to be called the new elite it needs to encompass all that elite offered. some of the eve fanbois have been saying that it isn't elite and shouldn't be classed as such, but there's been enough people claiming that it is to give plenty of major misconceptions about the whole thing.

  • mustardkid #274 8 years ago

    i commented on the comparison to elite, i didn't make it. and my comment was that it was like comparing TR to a point and click, but i didn't mean point and clicks are bad, just very different from TR.

    anyway isn't this usually the point where someone says "this one's gonna run and run" and no-one ever posts again?

  • Lovemoose #275 8 years ago

    "anyway isn't this usually the point where someone says "this one's gonna run and run" and no-one ever posts again? "

    I think you deserve the honour of that last post mustard, you've earned... DOH!

  • glo #276 8 years ago

    Daryoon : What does EVE stand for then? Comedy answers on a postcard please...

    Eventually Very Exciting? (after 3 months)
    Edited by glo at 20/01/04 @ 12:25

  • otto #277 8 years ago

    Heh! Good one!

    Also...

    Extremely Volatile Entourage

  • Tiger_Walts #278 8 years ago

    Endure Volatile Eejits

  • Lutz #279 8 years ago

    Edit: Damn, that one was used... :(
    Edited by Lutz at 20/01/04 @ 12:36

  • BartonFink #280 8 years ago

    How about

    Extensive Vacuos Enterprise

  • Tiger_Walts #281 8 years ago

    Exasperating Virtual Escapism

  • Lutz #282 8 years ago

    Everlasting Vommiting Eternal

  • BartonFink #283 8 years ago

    \o/ Mike it's back

  • eviltobz #284 8 years ago

    empty virtual existance?

  • Tiger_Walts #285 8 years ago

    Experience Villifier? Euphoria!

  • tannerd #286 8 years ago

    Voss - And guys, its a bit unfair to compare the sales of Eve to the sales of Myst & Riven, you need to take into account the developers/distributors of the game, advertising pushes etc.

    -----------------------------------------

    The point was that declaring sales to be directly proportional to quality is a false measure - yet one that has been applied to eve here. Within the same thread it has been argued that very few games deserve 1/10, epecially eve, except Myst & Riven. Which have obviously sold great numbers.

    Obviously these arguments were made by different eve fans, but there is nothing like a bit of baiting some of the others.

    To be honest there seems to be a bit of score blindness - the review wasn't overly harsh (although the protestations about combat are amusing), but everyone is focused on the score, as though it means something. What if it had got 5/10? Do we treat that as average? Obviously mustardkid found the experience less than average so it should be scored lower.... All is subjective, just because we use definite terms to describe indefinite qualities.

    Oh, and just to add another worm:

    THREE MONTHS!!!! SEVEN HOURS A DAY!!!oneone!!!!!

    SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY HOURS!!!!! I could play through BALDURS GATE 2 FIVE TIMES!!!!!!!!!

    edit: correction
    Edited by tannerd at 20/01/04 @ 12:54

  • mustardkid #287 8 years ago

    Extremists Versus Enlightenment

  • Lovemoose #288 8 years ago

    for thunderchild...

    Extensive Vocabulary, Evaporated?

    ;) we love you really!

  • Mike_Hunt #289 8 years ago

    bother you are all still wasting energy beating me to a pulp with you witty comebacks and I've run out of stupid things to say to make you write some more.

    /licks finger and draws a number 1 in the air

    /pulls t-shirt over his head and runs around screaming

    I WIN!!! I WIN!!! I WIN!!!

    [MH]

  • Lutz #290 8 years ago

    Voss: That comment was in retaliation to the following comments:

    "50,000 can't be worng about eve"
    "no game deserves 1/10 (Well maybe Myst/Rivan)"

    Follow my logic?

  • Errol #291 8 years ago

    Blerk wrote -

    Nah, UncleLou - Elite was great because of the combination of everything. It made you really believe that you were there - in that ship! You did what you wanted, you went where you wanted, you chose to do what you wanted to do. If you wanted to trade - great! If you wanted to just shoot stuff - also great! If you wanted to see how close you could fly to the sun - that's fine too. Want to try to perfect diving into a planet's atmosphere and hyperspacing at the very, very last minute? Lovely.

    This sums up eve completely for me. In EVE you can do ALL of this and so much more. It is the most immersive experience I've had probably.

  • Lutz #292 8 years ago

    Yes Errol, but in Elite you get to do it, where as in Eve you tell the ships computer to do it.

  • ssuellid #293 8 years ago

    For me, Elite was about getting to Elite status. Getting there involved trading to get enough equipment to be able to fight and then pure flying skill - not some strategic point and click interface.

  • FWB #294 8 years ago

    Yes Errol, but in Elite you get to do it, where as in Eve you tell the ships computer to do it.

    Someone made a very good comment in that EVE forum thread about this page that should you be able to pilot the ship yourself all the flight RPG elements would be lost. What would be in the point of a "level 5 frigate" skill if you do it yourself? Plus, I don't know about you, but in Elite I found that in the end there was little I didn't tell the ship's computer to do. I'll say this, there's alot more tactics in combat in EVE than there ever was in Elite, which, in comparison, seems more like a FPS.
    Edited by FWB at 20/01/04 @ 15:11

  • Lutz #295 8 years ago

    FWB: Have you played Freelancer? If so, Elite is flying to a tradelane yourself, EVE is pressing F2 ("Go to" Command) to get there.
    There was no computer in Elite.
    And by computer I mean something that made choices within game without you telling how to do it. Go from A to C and avoid B. Does it avopid B by going left, right, up or down??? In Elite, you fly the ship, you choose.

  • ssuellid #296 8 years ago

    I'm seriously beginning to doubt that half the people comparing Eve to Elite have ever actually played Elite for more than ten minutes. Elite was a space flight sim with some basic trading, limited same ship upgrades and Eve a space based RPG.

  • Lutz #297 8 years ago

    I agree entirely ssuellid.

  • Lutz #298 8 years ago

    FWB: Exactly. There is a lot more tactics in eve than Elite. Elite is more like a fully 3D FPS. This isn't in question What is, is that Eve is the new Elite.

  • FWB #299 8 years ago

    FWB: Have you played Freelancer?

    The demo. I thought it was pretty much Diablo in space. The non-dynamic market really put me off.

    There was no computer in Elite.

    Then I must be thinking of the later Elites. What of the auto-pilots? Not only useful for establishing flight paths and landing/docking, but also good for combat. You could tell it to follow a ship and then hold onto fire.

    If so, Elite is flying to a tradelane yourself, EVE is pressing F2 ("Go to" Command) to get there. Go from A to C and avoid B. Does it avopid B by going left, right, up or down??? In Elite, you fly the ship, you choose.

    Not quite true. Should you just tell the computer to take you straight from a to B you could end up seriously screwed. You forget that space is inhabited and some of those inhabitants don't like you flyng through their space (and most of them ar PCs). I spent more time working out alternative routes through blockades/dangerous systems than I did simply clicking A to B. Then there's the plotting of trade route paths so that you can hit certain systems to check prices/the natives.

    Finally, for "realism" purposes it makes much more sense that a computer would work alot of issues out for you.

  • ssuellid #300 8 years ago

    The original Elite has a simple docking computer that only worked right next to the space station.

    Nothing to follow ships tho.

    There was a autopilot in Frontier which was pretty much unusable because it flew through planets.

  • FWB #301 8 years ago

    I'm seriously beginning to doubt that half the people comparing Eve to Elite have ever actually played Elite for more than ten minutes. Elite was a space flight sim with some basic trading, limited same ship upgrades and Eve a space based RPG.

    Actually that's the issue at play here. What was Elite for you? Personally the trading and combat took second place to the lite RPG elements of joining a faction or making my home in the "Communist" systems (again, I can't recall the first Elite, I speak of ts sequels). In that respect EVE is very much the "new Elite" for me, it was just too time consuming.

    RE Trading: How do you think the majority of players make their cash? They may start mining but in the end the big cash comes from selling goods usually those you have manufactured.

  • Lutz #302 8 years ago

    Freelancer was far from Diablo in space, but the static trading system did suck a lot, yes.

    FWB: You are thinking of Elite: Frontier. Whilst a good game, it too was also missing that little something that marked it as a "classic" that Elite 1 did.

    Also in my example I clearly used something that was in the path to demonstrate what you have just said. Go from A to C and avoid b. A computer will do this work for you in general flying (Fly from Earth to Jupiter and avoid the asteroid belt for example) however in Elite you had to do that yourself AND you had to use the knowledge of the systems around you to figure out what was likely to have a good price, would you be able to land without getting your arse handed to you by pirates, and did you have alternatives for getting away? (Extra fuel, or sun scoop)

    In both Eve and Elite you have to decide where to go, what course to take. In Eve you tell the compluter to take you there, in Elite, you get there your self.
    They are two totally different games, and shouldn't be compared.

  • Lutz #303 8 years ago

    Two extra points:

    There was a computer in Elite, the docking computer, but I never used it as it was easy enough to dock.

    Frontier's auto pilot didn't work all the time. More often than not instead of docking on Abraham Space Station around Earth you'd try to fly Titan with it.

  • Clive_Dunn #304 8 years ago

    Personally I couldn't get on with Eve at all, after the initial "ohhhh" at the graphics it just seemed to settle into a pattern of mine for 3 hours, kill random annoying mob, mine for another 3 hours, sell stuff, get cash, upgrade ship with money, mine for 3 hours.

    Thing is, from what I've read there is loads more to the game, but I rapidly got to the point where if I saw one more asteroid I felt that my head was going to explode showering minerals all over the East Midlands. And that seems to be the problem with the game, some people perserve through the mining phases and get to the game itself. Others get bored with mining and never see the proper game itself - seems to suggest a problem with the game structure rather than the half the people that give up.

    Oh, and the concept of gates in space games is terrible. Space is supposed to be infinite, introducing gates breaks things down into more manageable chunks but at the same time removes that huge oppressive, lonely void feeling that a space game should have. X2 suffers from this as well.

  • FWB #305 8 years ago

    Go from A to C and avoid b. A computer will do this work for you in general flying (Fly from Earth to Jupiter and avoid the asteroid belt for example) however in Elite you had to do that yourself

    As you do in EVE. If you tell the computer to take you from A to B it will take the most direct route, if not always the fastest, ignoring all obstacles in the way. If I plot my route out before hand I fail to see how that is so different from making it doing it as I go along.

    AND you had to use the knowledge of the systems around you to figure out what was likely to have a good price, would you be able to land without getting your arse handed to you by pirates, and did you have alternatives for getting away? (Extra fuel, or sun scoop)

    Exactly the same in EVE. There is no universal price index that you can fall on. The best you can get is a high price value for a good in a certain area. It is then up to you to find exactly where that price may be. There is no way of knowing anything about prices outside of a region other than through word of mouth. As for pirates in a system, you're only tools are the death counts in the last 24hrs on the map and word of mouth.

    In both Eve and Elite you have to decide where to go, what course to take. In Eve you tell the compluter to take you there, in Elite, you get there your self.

    Sorry, but I really don't see much difference.

    They are two totally different games, and shouldn't be compared.

    Not true. There is more to the two games than path finding.

    I should make it clear that all my opinions on Elite stem from its sequels. I never really played the first one.

  • Lutz #306 8 years ago

    Well, how else are you meant to get around space???
    Every space game I've seen uses either gates or hyperspace (Which ultimatly is just a mobile gate)

  • Lutz #307 8 years ago

    That's why then FWB, the sequel is a lot like a single player of Eve. This si due to the fact that ship control was based soley on real time physics. To get across a colar system you had to travel nigh on the speed of light then use a time compression device. Game time it would take you days.

    In the original Elite though you was in sole control of the ship. You didn't plot courses on the computer, only in your head. You dind't get a computer to get you there, you flew yourself. You didn't tell teh computer to fire at pirates, you turned you ship around and fired at them yourself.

    As mentioned over on the Eve threads Eve is much more about character progression rather than who is the better pilot in a dogfight.

    They have a similar basis, but also as previously mentioned, it's comparing Champ Manager and Fifa or something.

  • Whizzo #308 8 years ago

    As others have said the only computer you could purchase in Elite was the docking computer, you could only afford it after you actually had learnt to dock yourself of course! Not that it made it useless, you could dock instantly the moment you got within the zone protected by the station, where police vipers would be launched if you did anything naughty but pirates would normally give up the chase if they were in hot pursuit.

    It was a massive time saver for trading and it made those dodgy cargo runs into Anarchy systems a little safer.

    And when I talk about Elite, I mean the 20 year old, 22Kilobyte, Braben & Bell effort not the rather unfortunate sequels.

  • Blerk #309 8 years ago

    Heh. The upside of all this chatter is... it's made me want to go and play Elite again. From the start.

    /loads emulator
    /checks over shoulder for boss

  • ssuellid #310 8 years ago

    The Elite sequels did not add much as far as automation went. There was a really poor autopilot and that was it. As for RPG elements there was the addition of 'join the military' where you got a rank and went up a rank after doing missions. Your rank in the military did mean that visiting rival sectors you were liable to be attacked - but not much more than normal. I still think that people must be getting mixed up with another series of games.

  • Nemesis #311 8 years ago

    The original and always the best. You can take yer Elite+ and Frontier and so forth and discard them. The original Elite was the best. You know, when the combat system was actually worth bothering with.

  • Tiger_Walts #312 8 years ago

    Elite is not a fun as Pirates! though.

  • AssassiN Verified Owner/Editor, Computers N Stuff #313 8 years ago

    Zero Hour Reviewer: "It's a good game, plenty of fun, but not worth £55."
    You can get the Generals Deluxe Edition now which only sets you back £35 so most people will buy that now rather than Generals and Zero Hour Seperate.

  • ruttyboy #314 8 years ago

    Not getting into this melee as I haven't played EvE (loved Elite though) but surely the difference between the two methods of navigating is the same as the difference between going to the shops driving yourself there and getting a taxi. If you wish to avoid something, a busy street or whatever, then when driving yourself you have to apply this knowledge to your own skills whereas in a taxi you would just be passing on a bit of local knowledge.

    I can see the difference quite clearly. It's about delegating responsibility, and if it depends on whether you find that responsibility fun or not as to whether it's a good or bad thing.

    /throws liberal amounts of coppers

  • sam_spade #315 8 years ago

    Binary systems. It was time to make a cup of tea when you entered one of those.
    Edited by sam_spade at 20/01/04 @ 16:45

  • FWB #316 8 years ago

    As mentioned over on the Eve threads Eve is much more about character progression rather than who is the better pilot in a dogfight.

    Sort of. Combat in EVE requires:

    1) Tactics. If you don't know what you're doing and how to counter your enemy you're screwed. There are players who fly nothing but electronic weapon platforms for their corps. Their job is fuck up up your computer or counter missiles. They won't fire a single shot. I think Errol was doing this for a while.
    2) Player skills.
    3) Ship

  • mustardkid #317 8 years ago

    this thread showed a lot of promise at the start ... now it's boring.
    .
    .
    .
    .......hmmmmm....

  • Blerk #318 8 years ago

    Blimey, FWB... the more you describe it the more boring it sounds!

  • Lovemoose #319 8 years ago

    Funny thing is, that now that the eve boys and girls have gone back to their forum, the debate has become thoughtful, reflective, and much more intelligent. Lovely!

    ...I kinda miss them though ;)

  • FWB #320 8 years ago

    Blimey, FWB... the more you describe it the more boring it sounds!

    :) Each to their own. I'm one for strategy games so in that respect combat really appealed to me. It was just all too time consuming.

  • Errol #321 8 years ago

    FWB wrote -

    Actually that's the issue at play here. What was Elite for you?

    And this is exactly my point. Elite and eve for me, are not about how you fly your ship etc etc. Elite was a state of mind for me - it was about living in a huge universe, trading and gathering 'stuff' etc etc.

    Eve fulfills all this and more - beyond even my wildest expectations. With REAL people behind every ship.

  • tannerd #322 8 years ago

    The point made about EVE being an RPG, so flying the ship yourself, making it a 'twitchy' game, wouldn't work only stands up if you think that having eve's RPG structure works. However I'm not entirely sure that is the case - it looks more like a means to keep subscriptions coming in and restrict extra-system trading (of money/ships etc).

    The learning of abilities over such a long time seems more like an artifical way of extending the initial descovery period of the game. Which is going to bring in more money as it takes longer for newbies to actually see all aspects & posibilities available.

    EVE could be twitchy, but isn't. EVE could allow players to progress at their own pace, but instead artificially restricts it. In effect it allows you to 'play' the game without playing it - free money for the developers then. A noble cause, but a common failure of MMORPGs

    I should add that my impressions have come both from what has been said here, discussions with a friend who has got quite far (has battleship, is in guild/whatever they are called) and own research.

  • WoodenSpoon #323 8 years ago

    Almost certainly already been answered, but look at the size of it!
    Which one are you going to pick?

    I'll give you money if you pick the Virtua Fighter one and send it to me itamae!

    Pleaaase?

  • BartonFink #324 8 years ago

    But to quote 'You can't fly the ships! Yes, you can't fly the bloody ships'

  • ruttyboy #325 8 years ago

    Some tard spake thusly:

    "1/10?!! YOU GOT TO BE SHITTING ON ME.
    EVE IS DA BEST SHIT AROUND HOLMES!
    SHOOTING IS MORE HARD THAN WHAT YOU SAY!
    EVE IS SMART GAME FOR SMART PEOPLE.

    IT’S A PITY YOU ALL DUMB AND CANT GET
    YOUR WANG WET SO GIVE CRAP REVIEW.
    YOU ALL SUCK WARM CAMEL MEATBALLS!

    PeAcE evEgUY "

    Sorry, what? Do you really think that is anyway for a self-confessed 'smart person' to communicate? Or are you just sticking up for your brother who plays EvE after he's dropped you off at the special school?

  • Whizzo #326 8 years ago

    SexyEvegUY18 wrote :

    EVE IS SMART GAME FOR SMART PEOPLE.

    IT’S A PITY YOU ALL DUMB AND CANT GET
    YOUR WANG WET SO GIVE CRAP REVIEW.
    YOU ALL SUCK WARM CAMEL MEATBALLS!

    You're not a player then?

    It would appear that some fans of EVE have an awful lot in common with some WWE fans.

    Or this is a regular doing a wind-up? Has to be surely...

    Oh and this guy wins "Most tardy statement in the thread so far"
    Edited by Whizzo at 20/01/04 @ 18:50

  • yegon #327 8 years ago

    That HAS to be a joke account. Please...for the love of god.....someone own up to it!

  • bluebird #328 8 years ago

    Since EVE seems to be such a hot topic and interests so many people, I suggest the EuroGamer crew give it a real EuroGamer review. How about it guys? I'd love to read your opinion, and I'm sure I'm not alone... :-)

  • Whizzo #329 8 years ago

    Reviewing any MMORPG is rather difficult for EG and everyone else, you can't dedicate tens of hours on a niche product and if you don't people will say it's not complete enough or it misses out on something. Even the game itself can cause trouble, patches can nerf things or radically alter them and then the review can be completely out of date very quickly.

    Any reviews of MMORPGs in the media have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

  • bluebird #330 8 years ago

    Whizzo, that's true, but maybe EuroGamer could do a similar article as they did with Final Fantasy XI, which, while not a review, did give a good impression to beginning players what to expect.

    For people who are curious what control of the ships in EVE really is about and how slow/boring/interesting it is, there are some fun movies on the EVE website made by community members who filmed their more memorable encounters. Check them out <a href='http://www.eve-online.com/download/videos/community.asp'>here (http://www.eve-online.com/download/videos/community.asp)</a>.
    Edited by bluebird at 20/01/04 @ 22:12

  • otto #331 8 years ago

    heh, nice one

  • Stevas mkII #332 8 years ago

    THREE MONTHS!? SEVEN HOURS, etc...

  • FWB #333 8 years ago

    cockknocker

    That's a new one. Which definition are you going for? The bottom one?

  • UncleLou #334 8 years ago

    I'd just like to add something for those who think EVE is boring: Never before, not in single player games like System Shock, nor in mp FPS, RTS or RPG games, did my heart race as fast as it did in EVE when I was happily cruising along and suddenly the "Threat" warning abused my ears, or when I was trying to hide in a solar system, knowing player pirates were near, let alone when I warped, alone or in a gang with others, to a stargate where we knew enemies were hanging around, their drones orbitting them, just waiting to attack.

    Blood, sweat and tears. :-)

  • mustardkid #335 8 years ago

    "fucking cockknocker "


    christ, it's like zulu ...... but with tards
    Edited by mustardkid at 21/01/04 @ 14:12

  • mustardkid #336 8 years ago

    "not in single player games like System Shock, nor in mp FPS, RTS or RPG games, did my heart race as fast as it did in EVE when I was happily cruising along and suddenly the "Threat" warning abused my ears"

    presumably cos you'd just run up the stairs from the kitchen where you'd been preparing a cuppa?

    only joking - i know how much some of you love it - it's just not for me, and not cos i lack imagination or patience, i just found it lacking

  • FWB #337 8 years ago

    Aye, lou. I still recall the Xmen blockade and running it. Warped into a gate to find one of MOO guarding it. My heart was racing. Fortunately I was flying some crappy ship (although my cargo was quite precious) and when I contacted the villian he let me pass, since he was busy tracking someone else.

  • Mike_Hunt #338 8 years ago

    Heh - Uncle Lou, you really want to give Operation Flashpoint a go!

    That'll get your heart pounding also.

    [MH]

  • FWB #339 8 years ago

    Mike, OFP is tense, but it still doesn't quite hit EVE's level. Don't forget in the later there's alot more at stake.

  • Lutz #340 8 years ago

    I honestly would give Eve a go, if it wasn't half full of tards. It does sound like a good game to be honest, assuming I can spare that sort of required dedication.

  • FWB #341 8 years ago

    I honestly would give Eve a go, if it wasn't half full of tards.

    If its anything like when I was playing then I wouldn't worry. I think this forum has been invaded by a few selective morons. The rest of the guys online were great. Very social and helpful.

    It does sound like a good game to be honest, assuming I can spare that sort of required dedication.

    That's the trick. Fortunately the skill system means you don't have to be online 24/7. At the start you can log in once a day to set your training, later on you can set it for weeks. The commitment comes from playing in a corp and earning money. I'm interested, who here still plays and how much time to they spend on it?

  • Mike_Hunt #342 8 years ago

    Mike, OFP is tense, but it still doesn't quite hit EVE's level. Don't forget in the later there's alot more at stake.
    Agreed FWB. I wasn't trying to state that one was better than the other, simply that if you liked that aspect in EVE then you may well enjoy Op Flash, which offers the same thing. I'm also aware that UL is a fan of FPSs, another reason for the suggestion.

    I really don't get this "this game is better than the other debate", specifically EVE and Elite. I've played both and I can assure you with 100% confidence that they are actually different games. Some people will like one, and others will prefer the other. A few will even enjoy both. But everyone is entitled to their opinion FFS. If someone doesn't like the game you like, deal with it and move on.

    I've also played EVE, and enjoyed it for a time. The fact that almost every other ship is piloted by another human is fanastic, and it provides great story lines and events. Even after I stopped playing I still looked into the (now non existent ) EVE thread to see what was going on. I, like FWB, quit because it required too much time delivered on a regular basis. Something I couldn't provide. Oh and I also was disappointed that you weren't in direct control of your ship in EVE, but understand that this would have upset the balance of the whole modification/training system.

    [MH]

    edit: Added punctuation as it looked like I was flirting with FWB!
    Edited by Mike_Hunt at 21/01/04 @ 16:01

  • mustardkid #343 8 years ago

    What really rankled me about EVE was the skills treadmill. The fact that there is no experience based scoring system that rewards the player for their in-game actions is mildly annoying, and to an extent reduced my motivation to keep playing. But the way in which experience is actually earned in-game was more than just annoying, i felt that it was a cynical attempt to maximise the period of time that an account is held open. Therefore maximising the revenue earned by the developer. i'm sure that all players will agree that the characters skills are the major limiting factor in what you can and can't do in EVE's universe. now consider that the leveling up of skills is purely time based, and although this can be sped up via the aquisition of other skills, can still take a matter of days. this is a limitaion that the player is forced to wait-out no matter how good they are at the game. Basically the game dangles a carrot in front of the player that you will had to have paid at least a months subscription before you can even begin to nibble. The real sneaky part is that the levelling process continues even when the player is offline. Players who suddenly find that they have less time to devote to the game or have found that their interest has started to wain will be more inclined to maintain their account because of this, they will occaisionally log in to tweak skills and check progress,as i know many do. It is almost as if the developer has found a way to get people to pay a monthly sub just to watch a set of slowly increasing numbers.

    I also found that the game could be incredibly dull at times, for instance on a long cargo run you could spend an hour with only the autopilot and afterburners to occaisonally engage....oh, and the camera to play with. Yeah i know what you'll all say about it being an mmorpg and it's a different sort of game. And it's not that i didn't appreciate the startegy of fighting in a group and participating in the extensive marketeering. It's just that a very large portion of the game seemed to involve long sections of just watching a flying spaceship. This was a fatal lack of balance for me and, i don't care what genre it is, i just couldn't excuse it for boring me.

    readers reviews are short by nature and may come across as blunt when they are less than positive and, okay, one's are even blunter, sure the game probably does merit more than a one but i'd still hesitate to go above five and i hope the above explains why.

    i know how much some people love it and how strongly they feel but all i could see was the emperors willy .... and i didn't like it.

    Multiple Edits: sorry was almost a tardfest of bad grammer and poorly expressed ideas but in my defence i was typing it at work ... in an anaesthetic room, and kept getting distracted by patients that needed anaesthetics.
    Edited by mustardkid at 21/01/04 @ 22:40

  • Orange #344 8 years ago

    Does it have motorbikes?

  • Scimarad #345 8 years ago

    Shit, somewhere in all that crap I actually agreed with Lutz - Someone please kill me NOW!!!

  • Lutz #346 8 years ago

    *Ahem*

    Where?
    And what's wrong with that anyway Mr?!

  • Stevas mkII #347 8 years ago

    THREE FHURCKING MONTHS!? SEVEN HOURS A TWATTING DAY!?

    That's better.

  • Lutz #348 8 years ago

    There we go Stevas! :D

  • Stevas mkII #349 8 years ago

    [Waits for abuse from those who accidentally ended up here while trying to get to next week's reviews thread]

    Heh.

  • eviltobz #350 8 years ago

    don't worry stevas, it takes 7 hours a day for about 3 months to get to the new thread. everyone knows that.

  • mingster #351 8 years ago

    Well.. i realise i'm about a week too late commenting but recent events have yanked me out of cyberspace kicking and screaming back into the realworld.

    i've only just read this whole section and it has brightened my day.

    As was mentioned my review gave it a complete fanboi 10/10 rating.

    I think Mustarkids review was valid to give a balanced summary of the game.

    I'd feel guilty if someone treated my word as gospel and went and spent £20 + subscription and wasted loadsa time to find out its completely nothing like they expected and isn't like Elite at all, you don't even control the ships, etc..!

    I think it's a good idea for more than one person to review a game and especially point out the bad things from a different perspective.
    Most people should then be able to formulate an idea of what the games about, and can make an informed decision as to part with their hard earned cash or not.

    Otto says NO ONE CARES and this is true with most games and in some ways for real life as well, but EVE uses group interaction therfore you prolly will find someone who will listen to what you have to say. Whether they laugh at you for your misfortune or turn round and help within the game is what sets MMORPGS apart from offline games.

    EVE does require massive amounts of time invested in it to appreciate fully BUT i did also give an alternative score of 1/10 on my review to say this is what the score would be if you base it on what affect is having to your social life.

    EVE nearly cost me my job and girlfriend this is how addictive it was to me.. i see this as a glowing endorsement but also as a warning like you get on cigarette packets... PLAYING GAMES KILLS DONT DO IT.

  • otto #352 8 years ago

    Otto says NO ONE CARES

    Just to clarify, I didn't mean "no one cares" about EVE, because plenty of people obviously do. I meant, "no one cares" about the fanboys' opinions of mustardkid's review, probably not even mustardkid himself.

    Just wanted to make myself clear. :)

  • Lutz #353 8 years ago

    /casts ressurection spell in hope of baiting Eve tards...

  • Stevas mkII #354 8 years ago

    Youi know, I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting to do today...

  • Lutz #355 8 years ago

    3 months perhaps?
    Or 7 hours a day?

  • Stevas mkII #356 8 years ago

    Mmh? Oh, of course, naturally THAT Lutz. But there's something else...
    I remember what it was.

























    It was the ability to fucking spell the word 'you'.

  • Stevas mkII #357 8 years ago

    Oh, and that being able to spell any word, let alone 'you', does not constitute an ability. Otherwise we'd all be claiming we're superpowered and shit for the most trivial things, wouldn't we? And that would take the kudos away from those who are clearly REALLY superpowered, like my mate Tony, who says he can fly.
    I was forgetting that, too.
    (ahem)