Points Mean Prizes

By Rob Fahey Published 23 January, 2010

If console currencies aren't designed to mislead, what are they for?

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Almost all of you, I'm sure, will have experienced the odd disconnection from currency that comes in your first few days abroad. The money in your hand doesn't feel real, its value impossible to quantify on a meaningful level - mathematically, you know that your home currency converts into the local paper at a relatively fixed ratio, but handing over 10 dollars for something just doesn't carry the same mental significance as paying seven pounds back home.

This psychological problem is exacerbated further when you start trading in a currency that's not just different by a few percentage points (realistically, a US Dollar, a Euro and a Sterling Pound are all of roughly similar value, generally not worth more than 50 per cent more or less than the other), but is actually different by an order of magnitude.

Asian currencies such as the Yen, the Yuan and the Won are incredibly tough for an American or European to get an intuitive sense of - you know, of course, how many places to move the decimal and roughly how much to divide or multiply by, but the simple act of handing over currency feels more like a trade in a childhood game of Monopoly than an actual financial transaction.

This isn't new information, or a revelation. Our close attachment to currency has been understood for many years - it's exploited by unscrupulous traders at airports, for example, who know that they can charge more because visitors won't grasp how much they're paying. It was a strong public argument for the introduction of the Euro across much of Europe early in the past decade; ironically, the same deep attachment to currency has also been used by the unified currency's detractors to keep it away from Britain.

So I think it's fair to say that this is a line of thinking which would, at the very least, have been familiar to Microsoft when it decided that content purchases on Xbox Live would not carry price tags in local currencies - instead effectively creating its own currency, the Microsoft Point, to which you must convert your cash before you can buy anything.

It's worth bearing that in mind when reading this week's rather defensive comments to G4TV from US Xbox executive Aaron Greenberg regarding Points, which start out by stating bluntly that "we never intended to mislead people".

Corporate PR is a funny business, and I often wonder to what extent people like Greenberg grit their teeth as they're forced to paint solid, well-considered (albeit not terribly consumer friendly) business strategies as unfortunate accidents, depicting their undoubtedly thoughtful and well-informed decision-makers as hapless slapstick bunglers, accidentally knocking over fragile jars and then grinning sheepishly when mountains of cash pour out of them.

While a corporate PR man would undoubtedly suck at his teeth with displeasure and say something along the lines of "well, I think mislead is a very strong word..." at this juncture, the reality is that - unless they really are a load of hapless buffoons, in which case the success of the Xbox 360 is a miracle not unlike actually persuading a room full of monkeys to type out Hamlet - the Microsoft Point's raison d'etre is exactly that. It exists to obfuscate pricing, achieving exactly what foreign currencies do for tourists - items in the shop are easily comparable with one another, but the psychological link with what things cost and the value of money back home is snapped.

If that were not the case, why would the conversion rates to Points be so utterly obscure? For 1000 Points - a fairly reasonable sum, which will buy you a pretty decent Xbox Live Arcade game - customers in the USA pay $12.50, those in Britain pay £8.50 and Eurozone customers pay €12.00. If you're in Japan, you pay ¥1480; in India, Rs680.

Euro customers are the only ones paying a round figure, and even that's a slightly awkward one. Now consider that most things on Xbox Live are priced at 400, 800 or 1200 Points, not a thousand - quick, off the top of your head, what's 800 Points in your local currency? No? I didn't think so - and nor did Microsoft.

I don't mean to particularly lay into Microsoft over this issue, not least because, in spite of how hostile to the consumer this system is, the reality is that Points have worked well and probably helped to fuel the growth in digital content sales. However, Greenberg's other comment on the matter deserves a little scrutiny. He defends Points by arguing that in a sense, they're more transparent, because they allow pricing to be the same everywhere in the world - "something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world".

This is a statement which is every bit as true as it is meaningless. Yes, exactly the same Points price-tag is used around the world - but of course, since Points don't cost the same amount in every territory (they're usually more expensive in Europe and Japan than in North America, for example), that number is an almost entirely arbitrary one.

Having the same number "200" on a piece of content in North America and Europe is meaningless if the underlying, local currency price differs vastly, which it often does. If anything, Greenberg's comment is an example of exactly how Microsoft Points are designed to mislead consumers - by creating an artificial layer which creates an illusion of international price parity, while simultaneously hiding real cost.

While Microsoft's intentions in this regard may rankle, however, there's no doubt but that Points have been a clever and useful business strategy. As well as obfuscating pricing and encouraging people to spend more by disconnecting from local currency, the slightly odd bundles in which they're sold (in the UK, point cards come in units such as 500 and 2100, for example) often don't match up with any of the content prices on the store - ensuring that consumers end up with a small balance of points after they've bought whatever they want. Since there's no way to cash out your points, this balance acts as an encouragement for future purchases - or simply as extra bottom line for Microsoft, should you choose never to use it.

Clever? Absolutely. Helpful for the development of digital content sales? Almost certainly. Unscrupulous? Make up your own mind, but it's fairly hard to escape this conclusion - and it's worth pointing out, of course, that while I have focused on Microsoft as a result of Greenberg's comments, exactly the same logic underlies Nintendo's points system, with all of the same implications.

This is, of course, another area in which competition is essential to keeping consumers' desires at the top of the industry agenda. Sony has rocked the boat by using real-world prices in all of its online endeavors on the PS3, and of course, the world's biggest storefront for digital content, the iTunes store, also posts real-world prices rather than using Points.

Consumers unquestionably prefer this, and the defensive tone of Greenberg's comments suggests that they've been making this preference known to Microsoft rather strongly of late. Points have served Microsoft well, and it's unlikely that they will disappear entirely, but once a firm so reliant on consumer goodwill has to start rolling out corporate newspeak to defend its strategy, it's inevitable that something will have to change.

As such, it wouldn't be surprising to see a simple way to view local currency price equivalents on Xbox Live Marketplace turning up in a future software update - at which point we can all shudder a little to think how much real world money we've handed over in Microsoft's online bazaar, wantonly spending with all the gusto of a tourist bearing a fistful of brightly coloured local Monopoly money.

For more views on the industry and to keep up to date with news relevant to the games business, read our trade sister website GamesIndustry.biz, where you can read this weekly editorial column as soon as it is posted.

Picture of Rob.

About Rob Fahey

Rob Fahey is a former editor of GamesIndustry.biz who spent several years living in Japan and probably still has a mint condition Dreamcast Samba de Amigo set.

Read more articles from Rob by visiting the Rob Fahey archive page.

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Comments (71) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • El-Dev #1 2 years ago

    Good article.

  • Freek #2 2 years ago

    "Editor's note: PlayStation 3 only allows you to add sums of money to your "wallet" in certain increments, however."

    Dunno how it works in the UK store, but in the Dutch store you pay the exact amount of the piece of content, no more no less.

  • SYS64738 #3 2 years ago

    "PlayStation 3 only allows you to add sums of money to your "wallet" in certain increments, however"

    Not sure about the PS3 but when using a PSP on PSN, you can choose to add the exact amount payable to your wallet as well, which is only fair.

    I wish though they would keep the use of points to highscores and well... shopping at Tesco perhaps :p

    I tried out GFWL recently and having to top up a wallet with points immediately put me off.

    Edit: too slow:D
    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 08:22

  • bad09 #4 2 years ago

    "something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world"

    I read that comment, it shows how much contempt they have for us and how little intelligence they think we actually have.

    I've always disliked points but endured them. From day one I have hated the fact you need to spend more with MS than the value of a game you are buying because of the points pricing and packs of points you buy off marketplace. I've heard people tell me "yeah but you iust put that to the next purchase" but it's far from the point. You don't go into a shop and buy goods to be told "right give me extra, it's OK it will go towards your next purchase".

    Steam and PSN cemented my hatred (and in turn less use) of points and Marketplace with their pay what you see policy, but even there PSN has a fiver minimum, something I find idiotic they still enforce when they are trying to sell film rentals/endless rockband songs/endless LBP costumes etc. for a couple of quid a pop!

    Sure if you hunt around with points you can save a couple of quid but personally I prefer dealing in cash with no limit. If I see something on Steam for £1.99 I buy it, no minimum spend, no points packs, no overspend. Just buy it for £1.99, job done.

  • Geordiemp #5 2 years ago

    Agree.

    Even though we have 2 xboxes (80 GB Jaspers), never bought anything from Microsoft store except gold-membership (which we will let lapse at Easter and only buy games with COOP system-link)...

    Main point is we install all games to HD before playing. Both HD's are always full of latest installs and it just a pain to fill them with DLC. If we had a decent side HD option like Ps3 (we installed 320 GB ones) then maybe would buy DLC...

    Sure lots of other xbox users are probably limited with HD space rather than being able to x 8.5/1000


    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 08:32

  • BritishBlue1 #6 2 years ago

    "[Editor's note: PlayStation 3 only allows you to add sums of money to your "wallet" in certain increments, however.]"

    No it doesn't, I paid the exact amount of £7.99 for the Socom expansion, nothing more, nothing less. Same thing happened for a bunch of other DLC too (FFVII, G-Police, Disgaea). Although I suspect you may be refering to the gift cards, in which case, you are correct.

  • Emmit_Assassin #7 2 years ago

    Good article, and I completely agree.
    Whilst this system is misleading, and no amount of PR crap will ever cover it up, it has served to further digital distribution.
    But M$'s cash cow's time is over, and I think it's time it moved to be more transparent and gave consumers a little more honesty. I don't spend a lot of money on points, I got that Littlewoods deal a few months ago (2100 points for £7) and changed my gamertag, bought a couple of arcade games and haven't bought any more points since. But I'm now left with a random 60 points, and no reasonable way of spending it without buying more points.
    But the reason I don't buy them is because I know full well I'll be ripped off if I do.
    The article is right, if M$ have always made such a fuss of being honest and open about its products, why are the points so deceptive?
    And they should be shot on sight for charging £19.99 for GOD (so should anyone who buys them for encouraging this). Shame on you, M$.

  • Spekingur #8 2 years ago

    "something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world"
    Not the same because you have US points, EU points and JP(Asia?) points. When they are bound to regions then they are not the same around the world - and that's besides the currency exchange ratio as is pointed out in the article.

  • maguire12 #9 2 years ago

    i spose the really smart cookies will make sure that their xbox live account is registered to the location that offers best value for money with regards to conversion to MS points. I had a quick gander at exchange rates for money (using the local 1000 points cost) using [link url=http://www.xe.com
    ]http://www.xe.com
    [/link]

    india = 680.00 INR = 9.14052 GBP
    japan = 1,480.00 JPY = 10.2136 GBP
    euro = 12.00 EUR = 10.5265 GBP
    usa = 12.50 USD = 7.75771 GBP

    so there you go, if my maths is right, register your account in the usa and hey presto, you gonna save yourself some cash. more power to the consumer^^.

  • Waffleaber #10 2 years ago

    "realistically, a US Dollar, a Euro and a Sterling Pound are all of roughly similar value, generally not worth more than 50 per cent more or less than the other"

    Eh? You looked at the dollar recently? It's currently trading at roughly 1.6 to the pound which is more than 50%. Been there abouts for a while too.

  • bad09 #11 2 years ago

    @ BritishBlue1

    I think he's talking about the top up on PSN. You can top up an account for set amounts, but as you say PSN does actually let pay what you see over a fiver.

  • President_Weasel #12 2 years ago

    Actually, points make life considerably easier for the publisher. For most publishers and first parties, "Europe" covers a great big chunk of the world that could be more accurately described as " not East Asia or the Americas". That's a bundle of different currencies.
    For products on Nintendo and Microsoft's online service the publisher just has to specify how many points they think the item should cost.
    For products on Sony's service, the publisher has to enter a suggested retail and wholesale price in a whole basket of different currencies.

    Not only is it annoying for whichever submissions manager is handling the items, it's also going to make the PR announcement more complicated too, and less informative to people using "niche" currencies.
    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 09:42

  • Vordred #13 2 years ago

    i dont like the points system either.

    but on the same token i never feel like i dont know what im paying, it works out at 85p per hundred points and i also always look at a 800 point game as costing £8.50, as thats what i will have to spend and that last 200 point is pretty much usless anyway, even if i wanted another 800 point game i would still have to buy another 1000 points.

    so really i would be more likely to buy something if they used real money and changed the 800 points to £6.80. as currently i view 800 points as £8.50

  • kentmonkey #14 2 years ago

    I'd rather pay in points and end up paying less for a game than pay in real pounds and end up paying more for exactly the same game as I do on the PS3.

    And, with all the attention that 'they make you buy 500pts cards, when games are 400pts so you end up with an amount left over' comments are going to receive, I look forward to seeing MS put the prices up to 500pts.

    I think they deserve some of the flak they've been getting, but ignoring that often, the same game on PS3 is more expensive than the 360 version, isn't really helping matters. In some cases I'd have preferred to buy it on the PS3, but at 10-30% more cost, it's not going to happen.

  • kentmonkey #15 2 years ago

    I'd also like to see more coverage on their unreasonable costs for GOD games. They charge in real money and points for them, but whichever way you pay you're being asked to assume the position. Sega Rally for £19.99. When I can buy it in the shops new for £4.99. Why yes, I'd love to embrace digital distribution, help save the planet by cutting down on needless packaging and fuel and getting more money to the developer by removing the retail arm. Of course I would. However my back is currently sore and I'm not sure I can bend over that far at this present time.

    They should at least play the theme tune to Shaft in the background while you download them. At least that would be more open and honest.
    Edited by 2 at 23/01/10 @ 10:23

  • JahB #16 2 years ago

    seems like i'm the only one that really likes the points system. simply because if you shop around online, you can buy them relatively cheap. that wouldn't work if i had to pay in real money.

    and i don't care about having to buy more points than i spend, because i keep on buying stuff anyway. it's similar to buying foreign currency when going to a different country - i really don't care if i have too much foreign currency, if i'm bound to come back to that country anyway.
    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 10:32

  • Demiath #17 2 years ago

    I'd say this perceptive article is worth roughly 562,34 Microsoft Points...

  • miiiguel #18 2 years ago

    I like the points sytem, because: I don't need to use my credit card; I can shop allover the world without having to have a credit card from those coutries (which wouldn't be possible anyway). That said, it seems that the article writer has a more "lighter" aproach to online shoping. I wish everywhere we could use a centralized points system.

    note-to-self: that's probably called PayPal. Sort of.

  • Psiloc #19 2 years ago

    Jeez, it's not hard. On PSN, you pay exactly what is advertised, unless your purchase is sub £5 in which case you must fund your wallet with no less than £5 first. The extra then stays in your wallet and goes directly to your next purchase, and if that second purchase is sub £5 again you only fund your wallet AT ALL if what is already there doesn't cover it.

    So with Sonys solution you almost never have any additional funds left over in your account (literally half of the time if you exclusively buy sub £5 stuff). The buying in denominations stuff mentioned in the article is merely an option and is treated as such in the UI.

    You can also get the same bargains on prepaid cards that you do with live.

    Hope it's clearer now that this is one thing that is unquestionably better about PSN.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/10 @ 10:42

  • ParanoidZombie #20 2 years ago

    Meh, I know that 100pts = 1.2€, and then I use my brain and convert the prices, I fail to see the problem here.
    Of course, the fact that points are more expensive in europe than in the US is an outrage, but actually EVERYTHING is more expensive in the europe than in the US, not just videogames.
    Even death is cheaper in the US.

  • Shrike #21 2 years ago

    Good article. I really don't think the points system actually does MS any favors - at least, if my own purchasing habits are anything to go by. If MS are listening, consider the following:

    Because it works out cheaper to buy points in bulk (2100 cards, for me) I plan my purchases in advance. I either know exactly how I'm going to carve up that 2100 in advance, or I have some specific reason to hold back, say, 1200 points - usually forthcoming DLC. I have never - in two+ years of using XBL - made an impulse purchase, because of this system. The only XBL games I own are ones that I've specifically been looking to buy, usually classics - Sensi, Castlevania, Ikaruga, Rez. Everything else I've spent points on has been DLC and I've bought the points for that purpose.

    Yet this is actually against my normal disposition as a consumer (ugh...). Looking at my Steam history, I buy things all the time if I'm half interested and the price is right. Just yesterday I picked up the Company of Heroes pack for £7.50, not having played the series, on impulse, because I'll give it a go sometime in the next six months. The week before I did the same thing for King's Bounty. I am seriously vulnerable to microtransactions and timed offers, but the need to have to go away and buy points - and because I don't feel like I really know what I'm spending - means that I don't do this on XBL.

    So what I'm saying is this:

    Microsoft, for free and unadulterated access to my money, do away with points and integrate PayPal transactions into the Marketplace. I will then finally be the easily-distracted consumer magpie you've always wanted me to be.

  • Chazmeister #22 2 years ago

    If anything, because I don't really know how much my points are worth, just that I paid over £30 for 4200 points, and plus the added hassle of having to purchase them from a store, it actually makes me more reticent to spend my points than it would do if there was just a price tag in plain £'s.

    If you paid £35 for 4200 points then a 1200 point arcade title is £10, but in my mind I see 1200 = £12 or more and suddenly I'm not so keen to spend my points.

    So from my point of view I've actually probably spent far less on the service than had they actually put the prices in £'s rather than points and allowed me to pay by card rather than forcing me to have to go through the extra rigmarole of having to buy points in the first place.

  • persus-9 #23 2 years ago

    I get screwed over by MS points in a different way. When I see a currency I don't understand then it fills me with fear and doubt about how much that currency is worth and so I err heavily on the side of caution and tend to overestimate it's value. It's even worse with invented currencies like MS points because then I know with a good degree of certainty that I'm meant to be tricked by the fact I don't understand the currency. It's just an obvious con it might as well be some guy giving away free surface cleaner with his magic absorbant cloths and even if I want what they're selling at the price they're selling it the fact it's a con makes alarm bells ring inside my head. I could spend a couple of minutes checking the current best replacement cost of points in my country and doing the maths and that would I dare say calm me down but it doesn't change the fact my initial reaction is to the prospect of buying or then parting with points is a deeply unpleasent one. It's sad because I would like to buy several things with MS points, for instance I loved Trials 2 so it's foolish of me not to get Trials HD and its DLC but somehow I always step back from ever buying any of the funny money I need to buy it with.

  • StooMonster #24 2 years ago

    Points have two clear purposes:

    Firstly, to confuse the price ... people don't know or can't be bothered to work out the exchange rate.

    Secondly, to get money for nothing ... people pay cash and have a credit balance. e.g. I've got a couple of hundred Nintendo and Microsoft points in credit, whereas on iTunes and Steam (where one pays exact amount in currency) I have £0 held with them.

    Smart business, but not good for consumers.

  • Stoatboy #25 2 years ago

    In an article about misleading pricing I like all these examples in the comments of being able to buy from Steam for say, £1.99, or £4.99, or £19.99.


    Because knocking that penny off £2, £5 or £20 is just for convenience, and not intended to mislead at all...

  • hilts #26 2 years ago

    Great article , agree with stoomonster , I like the ps3 system paying the exact amount if you want , ms and ninty are laughing all the way to the bank - I often have 'redundant' nintendo points and no doubt there are many people who have odd ms/nint points

  • kentmonkey #27 2 years ago

    I don't see how 'MS' are laughing to the banks using that example though. Pretty much any game you can buy on both the PS3 and 360 is more expensive on the PS3. Virtual money or not, they're in real pounds more expensive on the PS3. Sometimes by up to 30%. I fail to see where 'MS' are laughing to the bank in those situations.

    Nintendo, on the other hand, deserve to have more flak thrown their way as they use a similar system but charge excessively for retro titles.
    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 13:29

  • Thunderbolt #28 2 years ago

    I never liked the points system it always felt like a rip-off, I mean 220 points for a theme or some pictures! The only time I ever used it was for GTA Lost and Damned which I felt was reasonably priced.



  • kentmonkey #29 2 years ago

    That's not really anything to do with points though. That would still cost the same in real money (it's the same sort of cost on the PS3 for that type of thing).

    I think that's too expensive for that sort of rubbish, but others really like them. It's not a fault of the points system though; they'd still charge the same regardless.

  • timberwolf #30 2 years ago

    The amount i pay is most certainly not confusing to me... as there is a minimum points system.

    I mean that if something is 50 points, microsoft will still charge me for 1000 minimum. That makes the price not the cheap 100 points but a huge 1000 points for the 50 point product. You should work out the cost by the amount of money you have to cash to get the points you need when you need them. 1000 points in the bank is 1000 points and that 1001 point game costs you another minimum 1000 points for the 1 point extra. This is why games are often just over the set amounts so you need to buy the next set amount up. If you need to cash £20 for a game that is the point value of £11 that game still cost you £20.

  • StooMonster #31 2 years ago

    kentmonkey: I don't see how 'MS' are laughing to the banks using that example though. Pretty much any game you can buy on both the PS3 and 360 is more expensive on the PS3.

    As I explained, it's because they get money for nothing. If customers hold a credit balance with them it is extremely valuable...

    Firstly there is effectively no cost in holding credit balance, they do not have to pay for bandwidth for customer to download and they do not have to management and distribute fees for IPR to third parties. Now, imagine they have 10-million customers holding £2 in credit with them, that's £20-million.

    Secondly they can use this balance to invest in other activities to get a return on it. So, they take my fictional £20-million and invest it and keep any capital gains. i.e. they act like a bank. This is how PayPal etal make huge amounts of cash over and above their fees.

    The only question is ... it's not £20-million they hold in unused points, it's how much they have.

  • kentmonkey #32 2 years ago

    Perhaps that's why they can charge less than Sony do though. And if that is the case, I'm personally happy with that arrangement. I'd rather let them hold £17 of my money for a few weeks/months and pay 10-20% less per game I buy, as I'd never earn that on interest on the same money in a bank account. It works for me.

  • kentmonkey #33 2 years ago

    The same thing could also happen on the PS3. Some games on there are under £5. If you want a £3 game, they get to keep £2 for however long it takes to order something else.

    Steam is about the only one that gets the system right, but when not on sale, a lot of their games are very expensive. GOG.com are pretty good as well.

  • local_celebrity #34 2 years ago

    Fahey is, er, bang on the money here. No matter how many times I buy these things, I can never remember how much they're worth. Is 100 points more or less than a quid? I still don't fucking know.

    Ha, ha Microsoft! I now see through you and your evil mindgames. You fooled me for the last time...





    /buys 1200 points

  • dudefella #35 2 years ago

    What's really insulting is the price of premium themes, avatar items and gamer pictures. Completely disproportionate to the amount of work it would be to make them. 800 points for a good Arcade game, 400 for a simple outfit for my avatar? Logic fail.

  • Jayke #36 2 years ago

    Great article.

    What the author is referring to in the PlayStation store is that when you add money to your wallet, it can only be done with a minimum of 5 dollars, for example. I don't think that's a negative thing and the PlayStation store sells things as low ad 50 cents but it does encourage you to load in more more because your balance may be a few cents short of the next thing you want.

  • electrolite #37 2 years ago

    "Nintendo, on the other hand, deserve to have more flak thrown their way as they use a similar system but charge excessively for retro titles. "

    This ^^^^

    As I was reading that article I was thinking 'Nintendo are getting away lightly here'. I much prefer the PSN set-up re.actual money, but Nintendo abuse the points system more than MS IMHO. Am I right in thinking that DSi/Wii points aren't transferable too?

  • StooMonster #38 2 years ago

    kentmonkey: I'd never earn that on interest on the same money in a bank account. It works for me.

    You make a fair point, in these days of 0% interest rates the opportunity cost to you is little and it works well to get discounts in exchange for holding a balance with them.

    My personal bugbear is that I find that I have runts of credit in these various systems; and you can be sure that the disparity of points purchase breaks (100, 500, 1000, 2000, 5000) versus prices of commodities (e.g. 400, 800) are designed to maintain that.

  • local_celebrity #39 2 years ago

    Funnily enough, I've got 4200 points just sitting here at home. They're still in the disc box, cellophane wrapping intact. It feels like the most precious object in my house. Sometimes I even stroke it while playing with myself.

    That box will be worth MILLIONS one day, mark my words!!!

  • monkeywithnoeyes #40 2 years ago

    i'm torn on how i feel about points. They are quite obviously a scam...designed so that you always have something left over in order to attempt you to invest in further points, or support marketplace items you generally wouldnt of - it's in this i can see the new 40points per play avatar arcade succeeding when we all know it really shouldnt.

    On the other hand however.. due to points not being "real currency" theres no real set value to them. This means that should i take the effert to shop around i can purchase something valued at £10 for £7 quite easily. This means i usually get arcade games cheaper than if they were priced in real money alone.

    Last year for example i got 2100 points for £7. This £7 got me peggle, shadow complex, worms 2, lucidity, and marvel v capcom. Had those games been set in real money i would of been lucky getting half of them, given sales.

    On the other hand..i now have 40points left over. It's just up to me not to be weak enough to support avatar items, or pay to play 20yr old arcade games, with it.

  • patchbox360 #41 2 years ago

    'Since there's no way to cash out your points, this balance acts as an encouragement for future purchases - or simply as extra bottom line for Microsoft, should you choose never to use it.'

    i always thought that was beautiful

  • Geordiemp #42 2 years ago

    2nd thing dislike about live is have to buy 2 copies to play on 2 Xboxes, and you live account is tied to an Xbox or whatever...Anway, found it hard to purchase content once for 2 boxes and put on both ofhem.

    With PSN and 2 ps3's, I can have an account on both at the same time (not llogged in at same time though) and download to both boxes, so get 2 for price of 1 !
    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 15:14

  • Gastrian #43 2 years ago

    I quite like the idea of the points system but not the way its been implemented.

    The 200 points is 200 points comment seems to be deliberately interpreted by people to make it look condescending and idiotic where as it makes a lot of sense. By having fixed "foreign" currency you are buffering the content from the ebbs and flows of the money market and add a sense of value to an item. The value of the currenct may change but the value of the product doesn't.

    Using real-world prices in digital downloads bring up the same problems for producers and devs that currency fluctuations caused on the import market and why Sony and Nintendo were dead set on trying to stop it. GBA games had RRPs of £29.99 and about $39.99. These were both in line with their respective markets but there came a point where the pound became overly strong and was worth over two dollars as opposed to one a half so with online discounts you could pre-order brand new GBA gams for about £15, half the RRP and below the distributors sale price to retailers which led to a rise in grey importing and caused havoc with distribution channels.

    What happens on the PSN network when there's bigger currency fluctuations? What happens if the GBP drops in value to be 1:1 with the euro? Will Sony change the prices of the DLC to reflect this and either reduce the euro price and thereby reduce the relative "value" of the DLC in the euro market or raise the GBP price and artifically over value the GBP DLC relative to the British market. The other option is to leave them as is but then that would say that the same item, with the same distribution methods has less value in one market than another and then you'll have the euro market asking why are they paying more for it.

    I encountered this issue when looking at Dragon Age pre-orders. On Steam the collectors edition which was more fully featured in America worked out considerably cheaper than the British equivalent and had a different "worth"through the markets. This means the product has no tangible value and its "worth" is determined arbitarily and considerably less transparent than the points system. The prices of these products are being fixed irrespective of its actual value and trying to find this out is extremely difficult as steam region locks the store to your browser so you can't just transfer to the US store.

    Now you can argue that Microsoft do the same thing but they do give their products an actual worth, a 200 point product is a 200 point product regardless of what store you bought it from. The main issue here is the value of the points and the fact that they differ from country to country. Microsoft should treat points as a proper currency thats not linked to a particular market, give it a specific dollar:points price and fix it at that the all other currencies should be based on the actual currency exchange rate making it a truly global method.

    The other issue is that the points you buy don't match typical points usage and that needs to be addressed. Even Bioware's points system allows you to buy the correct amount of points for a given DLC and tells you how much that is worth in real money and Microsoft should follow suit.

    Microsoft's point system is a considerably better proposition than PSN or Steam as it has the potential for true global parity by standardising the prices acoss markets. PSN and Steam are just electronic versions of local markets and cement the pricing disparity between markets by removing middle men whch include grey importers. Microsoft just needs to fix the pricing of the points system.

  • timberwolf #44 2 years ago

    if you keep track of the real money you spend and not the points it should be fine.

    never buy more points than you absolutely must.

    the money floating as points in your xbox belong to microsoft already, you can never reclaim them as cash.

  • Dan234 #45 2 years ago

    He defends Points by arguing that in a sense, they're more transparent, because they allow pricing to be the same everywhere in the world - "something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world".

    Certainly not on Nintendo... If you buy them in the Wii Shop they're chaper than if you buy them in the DSi Shop. And if you're mad enough to buy them on card and add them to the Wii Shop, you've paid DSi Shop rates. Not that you can share or transfer points between Wii or DSi shops, because Nintendo's 'technology' won't allow it.

    So points are just another way of relieving customers of their money, most probably the youngest ones as they don't have access to a credit card.

  • MiniAmin #46 2 years ago

    If I could buy the exact amount of necessary points, i'd be more likely to purchase more digital content because I wouldn't be worried about left-over points.
    Edited by 1 at 23/01/10 @ 16:10

  • Shrike #47 2 years ago

    @Stoatboy

    It's a bit unfair to accuse Steam of misleading people on the same level as MS when £x.99 pricing is the norm everywhere in the western world.

  • Stoatboy #48 2 years ago

    *Shrike: I didn't accuse them of doing it on the same level. I just pointed out that I found it interesting, is all.

    Personally, I couldn't care less about the points systems and PSN funding, tbh. In a rare moment I actually have more tied up in funds for PSN than 360. I've got less than a quid left in MS points, but have a few quid in my PSN wallet after buying an extra table for Zen Pinball, which was £1.69, and I had just under, so needed to add another fiver. I've also probably got a bit on the virtual credit card I needed to get to use the US PSN store too.

    But generally I buy MS points in bulk and don't mind leaving them on my account until there's something I want. It's nice and convenient, and as others have pointed out I'd hardly be making large sums of cash in interest with it otherwise.

    Edit: One other interesting thing is that the one place that MS has put the real money prices on the store is Games on Demand, which I'd have thought is the place where people are most likely to tell them where they can stick those kind of prices. Go figure.
    Edited by 2 at 23/01/10 @ 17:26

  • LiamK #49 2 years ago

    Of course, if they really wanted to make money, they'd let you use Maestro cards to buy points. That alone has stopped me spending an awful lot on Live.

  • JonFE #50 2 years ago

    As Dan234 points out, Nintendo stealth-raised the price of its pre-paid cards (thus the price of its points) when it introduced them to the DSi and no one complained; then again they also raised the Wii RRP in the UK, so... At least, you can still buy them directly from your Wii at the original price.

    On the other hand, mainland EU gamers can purchase MS points from the UK and, given the weaker GBP, they get them cheaper compared to their own market; what's not to like?

  • Rubarack #51 2 years ago

    While I in no way want to defend MS on this one their stated reason isn't entirely nonsense. When they say Castle Crashers is going to cost 1600 points everyone in the world has the same idea what that is, when they say it costs $19.99 that means a whole lot more to US consumers than anyone else.

    The downside is that really it means across the world people have no idea what it is, but it's still egalitarian in its lack of meaning.

  • My1stLoveJak #52 2 years ago

    Rob - excellent article, great read.

    I've never thought about how points relate around the world. I don't have an Xbox, but I've bought a ton of games using Nintendo's online service. I've always thought about Nintendo's points in terms of how they relate to my currency (Canadian) - 500 points is $5, 100 pts = $1. What does that mean in Euros, though? Or Yen? Never even thought about it.

    For me, I was always glad to pay 5 bucks for a favourite NES game, but it's an interesting metaphor, the Monopoly money. I often feel that way, when I get a Wii points card; I'm excited about what I'm going to buy, instead of thinking about just how much I'm spending, how much it's really worth.

    I will still gladly pay $12 for Sin and Punishment, or $10 for Paper Mario, but the price comparison around the world needs to looked at more closely. I would feel cheated if I was paying more for the same game that someone got cheaper somewhere else.

  • Tomo #53 2 years ago

    Good article but I think it's stating the obvious tbh. The first page is also an incredibly long introduction!

    But keep it up, love reading these each week.

  • ardamillo #54 2 years ago

    I'm not a big fan of points, but they're hardly misleading. It's easy to find the exchange rate for your local currency and evaluate purchases based on that. And it's not as if points purchases don't appear on your credit card bill anyway, so you know exactly how much you've been spending on points.

    Having residual points is a pain but in my case it's probably cost Microsoft money, as I refuse to buy themes or any content that's not not at least a multiple of 200 points (and worth it).

    I wonder what the effect of points is on competitve pricing. Since all arcade games are one of a small number of prices (400, 800, 1200 etc), it constrains games makers in the prices they can set and prevents them from trying to undercut each other or gradually reduce the price of content, as happens on the iphone store for example.

  • Phishfood #55 2 years ago

    Very well written and well thought out. I enjoyed reading that and wholeheartedly agree.

  • rob177467 #56 2 years ago

    "GamesIndustry.biz, the trade arm of the Eurogamer Network, recently completed the next step in its evolution toward greater support for the videogames business with the implementation of a full registration system...."

    Excuse me while I throw up you corporate cocksuckers.

  • Retroid #57 2 years ago

    Points cards are retail units and can be discounted. But then, PSN have started doing £20 'credit" tokens which work in the same way, and I bought £20 of PSN credit for £16. Yay.

    The points prices didn't get bumped up on the WiiStore or on XBL when the £ took a bit of a tumble against the $, yet the prices on PSN were hiked up.

    My point is it's apples and oranges. I'm comfortable with buying in foreign currencies because I import things a reasonable amount of the time, the only thing which concerns me is: "Can I get ( XBL, PSN, Wii) store credit discounted? If so, I'm in favour of it!"

  • KDR_11k #58 2 years ago

    GamesIndustry.biz, the trade arm of the Eurogamer Network, recently completed the next step in its evolution toward greater support for the videogames business with the implementation of a full registration system.

    Doublespeak F Yeah!

  • wobbly_Bob #59 2 years ago

    Its obvious points system is there to rip us off. most xbox live content is 400, 800, or 1000 yet I can't buy those amounts I have to buy 500, 1000, or 1200!!!! ms are a bunch of wankers

    Let my pay in cash and pay the exact price. This policy makes me buy less because I have to pay over the odds so I won't buy anything or rent a movie unless I REALLY want it.

  • Widge #60 2 years ago

    RE: Sony increments, you have to do a minimum transfer of £5, everything over £5 you can match to the exact amount.

  • polar #61 2 years ago

    Good article. It's not so much the disconnect between real world prices and MS ponits that annoys me, but the blatant money grabbing from consumers that the absurd denominations of points represents. As mentioned in the article, the amount of points you can buy never equates to the price of items online; leaving leftover points with every purchase. Unless of course you spend the remainder on Horse armour or the like. Any attempt to dress this process up as anything other than ripping off consumers is a joke, until such a time as points can be credited back onto the purchasers credit card or the relevant denominations of 400, 800 & 1,200 can be purchased in the first place.

  • Oh-Bollox #62 2 years ago

    --But then, PSN have started doing £20 'credit" tokens which work in the same way, and I bought £20 of PSN credit for £16. Yay.--

    This boggles my mind. The £20 cards are about £16. The £50 cards are about £48. But why buy a £50 card when you can get £60 credit (3x£20s) for £48? They're offering a discount off real currency prices, effectively meaning 20% off everything on the PSN. I do not understand.

    Points are an unscrupulous practice, and it's a shame the article stopped shy of saying so, but then you're in MS' bad books...
    Edited by 1 at 24/01/10 @ 15:15

  • Geordiemp #63 2 years ago

    @ teh9182

    Interesting, but the whole point is that me and my son have an xbox each, so for say COD WAW want to buy a MAP pack in my name and have it on both my xboxs, then when we play I am on one box and he is on other...

    (and we play with system link so not connected to internet anyway....). Its expensive enough buying 2 copies of such games to play together, it would be nice if I could buy DLC just once for our xboxes in the same house (for gods sake)...


    On the Ps3 I can pay fo a DLC and download it up to 5 times on any of our PS3's, and we can have our own account on each PS3.

    Xbox is s bloody cofusing, your gametag is linked to the Xbox and if you put it onaother one you have to transfer all the stuff to it and back again...god knows..

    For now, any game with DLC I buy for Ps3 now and M$ DLC drives me nuts (also the 80 GB HD does not help)...

    If there is an easy way on Xbox, am all ears....
    Edited by 1 at 24/01/10 @ 16:49

  • YourMessageHere #64 2 years ago

    I recall reading somewhere that you could buy MS Points in different denominations from the Zune Store. Mind you that may not be available to non-North Americans. Time to find a US proxy?

    This isn't really directly analogous to foreign currency. In another country, people spend far too much time trying to work out how much things are in their home currency, and hence miss the point - they can't use their home currency there. It's totally immaterial how much things are in UK pounds when you are in Japan and you have no choice but to pay in Yen. The only calculation that need be made is to compare the price with their total cash reserves and decide based on that whether they can afford the thing they want.

    A lot of this discussion hinges on the fact that, from what I understand, the MS store is for all practical purposes global while the PS Store and Steam are both strictly regional. Like Gastrian says, the whole problem is that the prices in all currencies are fixed rather than variable, so in order to display real money prices MS need to either make prices variable and thus go directly against what they've said about points being the same anywhere in the world, or retain fixed prices and address the tsunami of whinging about regional price disparities some other way.

  • Sniper_007 #65 2 years ago

    I may be in the minority but I actually like the points system, I'm not one for playing the exchange rate game and fluctuating prices depending on the exchange rates in force at any particular point in time is crazy!!

    Points seem to make pricing decisions easier to understand, live titles are always 400, 800 or 1200 and at 85p per 100 points it's not that difficult to work out the maths and realise you're spending £3.40, £6.80 or £10.20 :).

    The only aspect I'd like changed is to be able to buy the points in the exact quantities I want them in, and to see the price converted in the confirmation screen so the transaction was transparent to all!!

  • Chazmeister #66 2 years ago

    @teh9182

    "but in my mind I see 1200 = £12"

    In that case, if points are designed to deceive, then it's clearly not working! lol. I could understand if you'd said that they're misleading you into thinking content is cheaper than it really is, but more expensive?? "

    That's what I was saying, that in my case the points make me more reticent to spend my money, not the other way around.

    My other problem with points is that when I have a certain amount left on my balance I keep wanting to hang onto them in case something really good come along that I want. I could of course just buy more points, but then there's the hassle of finding the cheapest vendor and what not, and also spending just £10 on a new arcade title suddenly becomes a more expensive proposition when you have to pay for 2100 or 4200 points instead.

    I have 2060 points left on my account but I don't want to spend them even though I'd like to. I'd love to get Trails HD and buy the odd Indie game, but I don't because I keep thinking that if another great 1200 point game comes along that I'd then have to go through the hassle and expense of buying more points. It's silly I know, but psychologically that's how my brain see's the whole points thing. In my mind points are a barrier and a hinderance to my spending, they're an extra and unnecessary hoop I have to jump through before I can make a purchase, and it puts me off buying more, thus causeing me to hoard the points I do have.

  • actionfitz #67 2 years ago

    agree totally with the article.
    Steam gets obscene amounts of my spare change atm with its timed offers.
    XBLA gets nothing unless I know something of the quality of Shadow Complex, Monkey Island and Alien Breed Evolution is coming out, in which case I plan ahead for the points i need, and still come away miffed that they are holding some of my money against some possible future purchase.
    :/

  • man.the.king #68 2 years ago

    @brotherbob

    "People should stop purchasing points, even for just one week as a protest, and you will see how fast microsoft will be putting pound, dollar and euro signs all over marketplace"

    While that strategy, in itself, is quite sound, it's useless unless there is co-ordination involved. Just 100-150 people abstaining one week and 200-225 abstaining the following week doesn't cause anyone to rethink anything.

  • man.the.king #69 2 years ago

    @BritishBlue1

    "[Editor's note: PlayStation 3 only allows you to add sums of money to your "wallet" in certain increments, however.]"
    No it doesn't, I paid the exact amount of £7.99 for the Socom expansion, nothing more, nothing less. Same thing happened for a bunch of other DLC too (FFVII, G-Police, Disgaea). Although I suspect you may be refering to the gift cards, in which case, you are correct.

    Not sure about other areas, but here in the US, we do pay in 5 USD increments to add funds to the PlayStation Wallet.

  • 3william56 #70 2 years ago

    @man.the.king: Are you sure it's not a $5 minimum credit? As in:

    You have $2 in your wallet. The game costs $9, so buying it charges your credit card $7, leaving your wallet empty.
    You have $2 in your wallet. The game costs $3. Buying it charges your credit card the minimum $5 leaving $4 in your wallet.

    Thats's how it works in Aus. And I don't have a problem with the $5 minimum, as credit card transaction fees wouldn't make it economic to charge lots of $1s and $2s to your credit card.

    I believe that there is no exchange rate fluctuation on the PSN. The price is set at time of release, and stays that way until it's either on sale or removed (I've never noticed a price change upwards). Even if there was - you still look at the item, pay the displayed price at the time, same as any other product in the shops. Fair and clear.

    Surprised such shonky practice as MS and Ninty points are legal - particularly when aimed at kids.

  • man.the.king #71 2 years ago

    @3william56

    "Are you sure it's not a $5 minimum credit?"

    Not sure. I'll check again.