Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned Review

By Christian Donlan Published 16 February, 2009

American Choppers.

Version tested: Xbox 360

Although Rockstar may not be adding much to the footprint of Liberty City with The Lost and Damned - conjuring a fresh island out of the muddy rivers, or laying down a fine spray of new skyscrapers, flyovers, and dockyards - the company has been hard at work building stories; sculpting new characters, fabricating dense relationship networks of cause and effect, and plumbing in a buried system of deadly motives and smouldering resentment. The Lost and Damned's narrative sees the developer on top form, creating an unnerving pressure-cooker tale that draws on the familiar GTA themes of hierarchy, revenge, and going for a drive with a passenger who doesn't mind it when you flip the car at an intersection and plant it upside down in a bakery.

This time it's the bikers who hog the spotlight. Johnny Klebitz has been in charge of The Lost Motorcycle Club while the President, Billy Grey, has been in rehab. Billy's out now, and somewhat perturbed to see his rowdy fightin' and fumin' street gang turned into a (relatively) smooth-running corporation, a truce in place with long-time rivals The Angels of Death, and a new strategy based on lying low and allowing the flourishing narcotics business to bring in the money. It's old versus new, then, and within the space of one mission, dangerous tensions are simmering away between Johnny and Billy, with the stage set for a conflict that could tear the gang apart.

While the tale is simple enough, the telling is brilliant and often devilishly subtle. Johnny and Billy are entirely empathetic leads - the former gruff yet care-worn, the latter gently terrifying, but somehow touching - and their performances set new standards for videogame naturalism. The story's topical themes find time to take in elections, the recession, and the knotty question of good governance, and while there are shoot-outs, explosions, chases, and car-jackings, Rockstar's greatest talent is for restraint - refusing again and again to let the main characters' feud spill over into actual violence, until the sense of impending doom is almost unbearable. The game may revel in an open world, but, once more, Liberty City's citizens are thoroughly trapped: hemmed in by financial imperatives, pathetic addictions, and outdated thinking. Videogames don't often ask you to think of their characters in this way.

'Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned' Screenshot 2

Lead a convoy into a wall, and you'll get an amusing pile-up of grisly biker folk tangled up together. Oddly entertaining.

Yet The Lost and Damned is also a love story, as an unlikely romance blossoms between the player and the game's rebalanced bikes. Insubstantial and often prone to bursts of bizarre behaviour in most GTA games, they're transformed here into road-hugging monsters, lithe and powerful: a brutal mixture of low-riding menace and chugging, thrumming audio. You'll feel part of the gang, too, with lengthy convoy drives spiced up by a mini-game that encourages you to ride in formation in order to unlock extra dialogue, while each mission ends with any surviving team-members levelling up in terms of toughness and experience. While it's hard to say exactly how much help your leather-waistcoated brothers provide during the game's regular shoot-outs, at the very least they create a constant stream of chummy chatter, and are blessedly skilled at staying alive at critical moments.

What Rockstar hasn't been building, however, is a fresh approach for the missions. It's hardly fair to expect the developers would do something so fundamental for an expansion pack, but while the game is never less than a joy to play, with the thrill of exploring a new city gone, the rate at which the company's story skills are evolving while their missions remain largely unchanged is becoming increasingly apparent.

Yet, even if the development team is having trouble escaping from the point-to-point nature of most of the challenges, Rockstar is getting increasingly good at embellishing the framework: while many missions involve following the GPS to a location, shooting it out like a low-down desperado, and then escaping from the police afterwards, there's a fair amount of variation on display, along with some excellent staging which sees you leading dirty cops to an ambush, fighting your way out of a tenement building crawling with N.O.O.S.E. agents, and lying in wait for a drug drop at a rainy toll booth.

And when it can't bring variety, The Lost and Damned simply reaches for the bigger guns, handing over the RPG for an explosive assassination at the airport, and allowing you to smoke out your enemies with the new - and intensely satisfying - grenade launcher. And - finally - there's the merciful addition of mid-mission checkpoints, which transform the game's longer set-pieces from endless restart slogs into a series of discrete challenges that no longer make you so angry.

Alongside the story campaign, there's a generous range of additional treats: the new clubhouse offers gambling and arm-wrestling mini-games, as well as the strangely addictive 3D Tetris variation called QUB3D, and there's a mass of fresh internet sites, radio stations, races, and twenty-five new Gang Wars - brutal territory fights which are waiting to erupt between biker clubs at various spots around the city. Then there's multiplayer, with new modes like Lone Wolf Biker fulfilling your sadistic tendencies as the entire pack descends on a single player, while Turf War variant Own the City enlivens Team Deathmatch with its brutal land-grabbing, and Chopper vs. Chopper pits bike against helicopter for some highly asymmetric battle-racing.

'Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned' Screenshot 3

Is it a spoiler to say that you'll be treated to male full-frontal nudity in this DLC?

With a fulsome single-player campaign that will soak up somewhere in the region of fifteen hours of your time while threading in a genuinely memorable story, and a pile of new distractions, there's no question that Rockstar has raised the bar on what players should expect from downloadable content. This isn't the short burst of simulated history that Operation: Anchorage offered Fallout 3 fans, or the quirky asides of Fable II's Knothole Island. Instead, it's approaching the kind of package most developers would have few qualms about boxing up and selling to you full-price as an entirely new game.

While the company's talent with stories suggests the day may be approaching when GTA runs up against the inevitable limits of openworld titles - a Scorsese-quality narrative, where characters are happy to spend their time driving around in klutzish dodgem cars - for the moment, the trade-off still works. That's why, for now at least, you'll be more than happy to come along for the ride.

8 / 10

Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned is out exclusively for Xbox 360 as of 17th February. It costs 1600 Microsoft Points (GBP 13.60 / EUR 19.20) on Xbox Live Marketplace.

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Picture of Christian.

About Christian Donlan

Chris Donlan writes about games for Eurogamer and some magazines. His heroes include Eugene Jarvis, Errol Morris, and Linus Van Pelt.

Read more articles from Christian by visiting the Christian Donlan archive page.

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Comments (166) 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • StooMonster #1 3 years ago

    8/10 not bad, almost makes me wish I had 360 version rather than the PC version (which I am rather pleased with).

  • david78 #2 3 years ago

    Cool

  • miiiguel #3 3 years ago

    Pretty much all what I thought it would be!
    Excited!

  • Benno #4 3 years ago

    as good as killzone then

    sweet

  • PrivateFloyd #5 3 years ago

    contemplating re-buying gta 4 and some points for this.....

    not good.....not good at all....

  • stevetuck #6 3 years ago

    GTABore couldnt even complete this game

  • richardiox #7 3 years ago

    Wish they would retrospectively add mid-mission checkpoints to the vanilla game. That one ommission turned the game from a 9/10 to a 7/10 for me, just dont have the spare time to spend 20odd minutes getting back to the one tricky spot where failed previosuly only to fail again thanks to some random traffic encounter.

  • JayeM #8 3 years ago

    Great score and the review seems genuinely glowing.

  • metalangel #9 3 years ago

    How exactly are the bikes improved, then? The NRG 900 was great, the PCJ was almost as good (except for the wholly inappropriate whiny engine noise they thought suited it!) but everything else looked weedy and was slow and dull to ride. Given you're a biker now and your MC rides big cruisers, this is crucial!

  • BBIAJ #10 3 years ago

    Want! Hit me! HIT ME!

    What time does this go live? The latest trend seems to have gone from 9am to 10am, shame.

    Off topic: Where the Hell is the "out before release" demo for RACE Pro!?

    Was hoping to play it before GAME ship it on Wednesday, along with me free car...

  • beastmaster #11 3 years ago

    This and SFIV in the same week

    /Awaits 9/10 50 Cent review (still won't buy)

  • Eraysor #12 3 years ago

    Wasn't QUB3D in it already?

  • TheComedian #13 3 years ago

    Seems a bit of a weird score considering the bulk of the review, which is largely positive. Hardly even mentions the new multiplayer though, which is a shame.

    I find it REALLY odd that GTA IV got 10/10, and this one got 8/10 when pretty much the only complaint was that it was similar in mission structure to the aforementioned game which recieved full marks.

    EG are really screwing up their review scores recently.

  • miiiguel #14 3 years ago

    IMO, review scores aren't an exact science.

  • Hellform #15 3 years ago

    HOW FUCKING DARE YOU suggest Dan and Sam Houser will EVER be in the same league as Martin Scorsese, perhaps the greatest living American filmmaker. Hop off your country's jock, Eurogamer.
    SAM HOUSER IS A FUCKING HACK. A MONKEY.
    And 'even monkeys can write Shakespeare, given enough time.'
    Edited by 2 at 16/02/09 @ 18:36

  • Darren #16 3 years ago

    Wow, an extra 15 hours of gameplay and a decent storyline makes the £13 asking price easier to swallow. Can't wait to play it tomorrow then although I wish it had come out for the PC version too.

  • Pastici #17 3 years ago

    Up Rockstars ass much? That's how the review came across, there's loving a product and then there's loving a product.

  • TheComedian #18 3 years ago

    'How fucking dare you suggest Dan and Sam Houser will EVER be in the same league as Martin Scorsese, perhaps the greatest living American filmmaker. Hop off your country's jock, Eurogamer.'

    *most well known living American filmmaker

    Don't get me wrong, Godfather and Mean Streets are in my top ten films of all time.

  • Monkey_Chops #19 3 years ago

    I thought Frankie Boyle was in this? I know for a fact that he did mo-cap for GTA IV. Maybe the next one, then?

  • Hellform #20 3 years ago

    No, Stephen "please take me seriously" Spielberg is the most well known American filmmaker.
    Most of Scorsese's films (Departed/ Gangs of New York excepted) arent big blockbuster hits.
    But that's not the point.
    The point is that Dan and Sam Houser are fucking hacks and will never write anything a sane person would compare to the work of Martin Scorsese.
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/09 @ 18:40

  • damusk #21 3 years ago

    @thecomedian

    scorsese didnt direct godfather

  • seasidebaz #22 3 years ago

    Hmmmm, so some good some bad points...

    Shame to hear that gang wars is back. That used to annoy me having to go defend territory whilst on my way to a mission.

  • smelly #23 3 years ago

    I *might* buy this.. if i ever get around to finishing the full game without getting bored.

    Review doesnt mention if the humor from previous games is back? That's what made me so bored of the full price game - it just wasnt as much "fun" and silly as the games before it.

  • matrim83 #24 3 years ago

    @Comedian

    Scorcesse had nothing to do with The godfather. I think you mean Goodfellas.

    Anyways I will pass on this. I thought the 30 hours of GTA missions had no variety to them and this one seems to hold the trend. Wish there was something like this for SR2.

  • X #25 3 years ago

    Think I will get this actually despite not finishing the main game yet (want to take it slow, got boring at times). Wonder if we will have to wait Half Life 2 like lengths of time before we get each slice. I don't think I'd show the same enthusiasm for future DLC if it took ages to come out.

  • septimus #26 3 years ago

    Had to give in after the other good things said about this... traded in the PS3 version for the 360 one. Judas I know.

    *Dithering and shadows on the 360 version are horrid, especially driving under the overhead train tracks, looks very odd*
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/09 @ 18:57

  • GamesConnoisseur #27 3 years ago

    Fun and silly is more Saints Row, and I m deffo gonna be happy to download this, and indeed should add a point just for being a 'game that could have been sold on its own but is a really good DLC extra'.

    Good review and 8/10 is still a fair one taking into mind that GTA4 would have aged a bit by now!! In a sense where many gamers are now more familar and jaded with GTA4 and this brings excellent new angle and regenerate the franchise.

  • TheComedian #28 3 years ago

    So?

    All I said was that it was one of my favourite films.

    *hopes desperately that he can get away with it*
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/09 @ 18:59

  • KayJay #29 3 years ago

    GTA what... GTA is sooooo 2008... :-)

  • thenastypasty #30 3 years ago

    Right score...


    Right price...

    Now all i need is a spare weekend to play it.

  • Nemesis #31 3 years ago

    8/10. Nice.

    Good start for this year; DLC expansions I love em.

  • caligari #32 3 years ago

    Arrrgh - I have my points all ready to go for this - and yet I'm stuck in bloody Leicester for the next two days. ;_;

    Oh well - hopefully the hotel has Wireless, so I can buy it via Xbox.com and 'ready' the download.

  • uglygamer #33 3 years ago

    The full GTA game deserved a 9/10. But remember this review is by a different person.

  • espy #34 3 years ago

    Reads better than an 8 :D But nice to see somebody taking expansion packs seriously again.

  • Burkey123 #35 3 years ago

    8/10. Pretty good score and was expecting it. Pity I cant buy it though because I only have a ps3. Ah well, Prince of Persia DLC it is then.

  • vegard #36 3 years ago

    @sigmagoat

    except for that xbox console in your livingroom?;)

  • dirigiblebill #37 3 years ago

    Christ, a Scorsese fanboy. That's a new one.

    /takes notes

  • Liamario #38 3 years ago

    Just a question, is this being reviewed as a standalone game, as an expansion, or as a network title?. What I'm trying to get at, is what should we be comparing this to?

  • rashes #39 3 years ago

    GBP 13.60 / EUR 19.20

    I've said this on previous posts but why is the Eurozone getting completely ripped off by the MS points conversion?????
    GBP 13.60 converts to EUR 15.17 at current rates. What a joke...

    That said, I'll still be buying this!
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/09 @ 20:01

  • El-Dev #40 3 years ago

    MrED, you forget in the face-off EG said it looked better and ran technically better. Fuck what your naked eye can see, it's all about that frame rate drop nobody noticed.

  • damusk #41 3 years ago

    I wasnt bored at 100%, cant wait to play this tommorow.

  • Hellform #42 3 years ago

    @dirigiblebill
    Only a bloody fool would suggest that the past, present and future work of Dan and Sam Houser could EVER be considered in the same league as the work of a man responsible for films like Goodfellas, Taxi Driver, Mean Streets, and The Color of Money.
    At best, the Houser's are barely in the same league as Guy fucking Ritchie. But most of the time, their writing is nothing but forgettable, gimmicky GARBAGE DIALOGUE AND PLOT DEVELOPMENT, HELPED OUT BY ABOVE AVERAGE VOICE ACTING. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.
    MONKEYS. THAT'S WHAT THE HOUSERS ARE.
    FUCKING MONKEYS.
    HACKS.
    Edited by 3 at 16/02/09 @ 20:41

  • miiiguel #43 3 years ago

    "some DLC at some point in the future is beyond me."
    lol, it's tomorrow. Bitter much ?

    edit: scratch that, just read your blurb... it's bitter a lot!
    Edited by 2 at 16/02/09 @ 20:53

  • BBIAJ #44 3 years ago

    @ Monkey_Chops:

    Just read the review over at NG4.com, and they say that Frankie Boyle is indeed now at the comedy club, awesome!

    Does anyone know if the additional DLC such as radio, vehicles, TV, internet, and weapons intergrates itself into the main game in any way?

    It would be great if it did, just to freshen it up a little.

  • Thunderbolt #45 3 years ago

    Its a good game I dont understand the review embargo

    But giving the delay in downloading the Halo Wars demo (4 hrs on broadband) I better get it started in the morning if I want to play it that night

  • rogueJT #46 3 years ago

    Hi,
    I'd be grateful if someone could tell me When is the free GTAIV online starting as I'm too mean to pay for Gold membership.

    Thanks.

  • White_Westie #47 3 years ago

    Finished the main story line (the side ones went on and on after a while...) Looking forward to this, Gta iv was the first gta I finished and loved the story line (the others previous to this I got bored with...)

  • space_ace #48 3 years ago

    scorsese is a solid 9/10, while his recent expansion packs are 7/10 :)

  • Lawlost #49 3 years ago

    will not be buying this sadly for me although i end up buying them the GTA games I rarely play them.
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/09 @ 21:04

  • tomwhitaker #50 3 years ago

    "the familiar GTA themes of hierarchy, revenge, and going for a drive with a passenger who doesn't mind it when you flip the car at an intersection and plant it upside down in a bakery"

    If only GTA4 had been that much fun...

  • el_pollo_diablo #51 3 years ago

    Spielberg is 10/10
    Scorsese is a 5/10 at best.

    Gangs of New York? Bums of Poo Wee more like.

  • Monkey_Chops #52 3 years ago

    @BBIAJ Thanks for the heads-up, dude. My friend helped out with the mo-cap last year and I was hoping it was going to feature in this episode.

  • the_dudefather #53 3 years ago

    The best part of a page filled with 'OMG GTA is teh art', followed by: 'What Rockstar hasn't been building, however, is a fresh approach for the missions'.

    Little bit disappointing in that respect, but sounds like a pretty meaty chunk of DLC for once, so it will be a more than likely purchase tomorrow. Will be nice to give the multiplayer mode some more love too (which was great despite its connection issues).

  • local_celebrity #54 3 years ago

    @Hellform

    What's with all the bile? Did the Housers bumrape you in a former life? Yeah, the storylines in GTAIV are a bit cack, but it's certainly not worth bursting a bloodvessel over. Chill. It's only a(n incredibly overhyped) videogame.

    Anyway. Having hung onto my copy of GTA IV all these months, I can't say I feel all that "validated" by this review (masterfully written though it is).

    To be honest, I was looking for an eleven out of ten, minimum.

  • mkreku #55 3 years ago

    More of the same? No thanks, I was hoping they would have added a little extra fun to the game instead of more of the same stuff that was already in GTA4.

    More different races for a start!

  • DoctorZoidberg #56 3 years ago

    I didn't want to join in, but seen as this is as close to a Scorsese debate as were likely to see on here...

    Most of Scorsese's films (Departed

    I would like to point out that :

    1) The Departed is a remake of a VERY GOOD film (Infernal Affairs, but you all knew that right?)
    2) The Departed is absolutely shit.


    This however looks like a great addition. I won't ever play it though as GTA 4 never really got my ship floating.

  • Syrette #57 3 years ago

    Don't get involved, it's clearly Hellform's time of the month.

    Pastici - you say all that, did you not notice it only got 8/10?

  • a.j2020 #58 3 years ago

    strange this...IGN strongly criticise the storyline wheras EG strongly praise it...Im confused...who is lying? Having said that i know i won't be playing this for now...Don't have a 360 handy atm...might get a new one in summer...i do plan to pick it up then. Shame its not out on ps3 though...I still think that rockstar can make more out of selling it on psn than what ms paid them.

  • alpha-0ne #59 3 years ago

    15 hours play!! getting day one..seriously 90% of games doen even offer 15 hours of gameplay for £40

    ign or eurogamer i know which one i trust! sayign that ign gave it 84%
    Edited by 4 at 16/02/09 @ 22:09

  • ChadSexington #60 3 years ago

    GTA is shit.

  • ChadSexington #61 3 years ago

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Scorsese direct (amongst other things) Goodfellas, Casino, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Mean Streets and The King Of Comedy? Oh right, they were all shit...

    I don't think so.

  • Spekingur #62 3 years ago

    @Hellform, Scorsese and Spielberg might be well known. That still doesn't mean that they make good stuff.

    Besides, writing (and directing) for a video game is diffirent from a movie. These two are mediums that can't be easily compared.
    I don't think Scorsese has even ever been involved in a creation of a videogame. Spielberg has, with the Medal of Honor series. Oh, and of course, American movie directors and writers are "teh best in teh werld", right? As in, from the US. Since Canada, Brazil, Argentina, etc are never really included in the "American" definition. And the rest of the world, where every director and writer is worse than bad. Yes, that's right...

    ...right?

    *sigh*

    ///ON-TOPIC///
    So, finally, we can live the life of a motor-psycho gangsters. Like the guys from American Chopper. Yay. Now, where are my irish gangsters?!

  • el_pollo_diablo #63 3 years ago

    ChadSexington:

    "Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Scorsese direct (amongst other things) Goodfellas, Casino, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Mean Streets and The King Of Comedy? Oh right, they were all shit...
    I don't think so."

    PAH!

    I'll take Jaws, Indiana Jones and Duel over any of those.

    / shuffles Jurassic Park 2 and Amistad under the carpet

  • Rodchenko #64 3 years ago

    Since there were hardly any down points, why did this 'only' get an 8?

    Anyway, kind of jealous, since I bought the PS3 version (got my 360 later). Recently started getting back into it again after many months of not caring about it, started from scratch (since they fucked up with the trophies), and have to say I had totally forgotten how awesome this game is (I know it's cooler to hate it these days, but whatever).
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/09 @ 22:57

  • polaris70 #65 3 years ago

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Scorsese direct (amongst other things) Goodfellas, Casino, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Mean Streets and The King Of Comedy?

    He did yes, a very long time ago. Gangs of New York, the Aviator and the Departed he directed recently, which begs the question - should he have retired years ago after making Casino? Probably.

  • mkreku #66 3 years ago

    Isn't it convenient to dismiss all the critics under "it's cool to hate it nowadays so whatever"? Saves you from having to consider the fact that some of us greatly enjoyed GTA: Vice City and GTA: San Andreas before GTA4 and just doesn't think the last iteration of the series lives up to its former champions. But, as you imply, whatever.

  • DanC89 #67 3 years ago

    Frankie Boyle in the comedy club?!

    /buys 360, GTA4, waits for add-on

  • polaris70 #68 3 years ago

    I still think GTA4 was a good game, especially considering some of the dross that got released last year. The problem already highlighted is that the missions are all similar and made the game a bit boring near the end, in my opinion. But how do they come up with more varied and interesting missions? With this darker, more mature tone and emphasis on the story and character over the previous GTA's, missions like robbing a golf-cart and racing around a golf club like something from banana splits doesn't really fit into the style of the game anymore, even if it is fun. It'll be interesting to see where Rockstar go with the franchise because the story, characters and world they created in GTA4 is stunning. Hopefully the expansion is a step in the right direction.

  • ChadSexington #69 3 years ago

    What the fuck has fucking Spielberg directed recently? Indian Jones IV, one of the worst movies ever.

  • local_celebrity #70 3 years ago

    Just played a couple of deathmatch games in preparation for this, and I have to say this game hasn't aged very well. I couldn't get enough of the multiplayer a year ago. It seemed so wild, anarchic, spectacular. Now it looks a bit tired.

    Unlike COD4 multiplayer - which, no matter how much you play or proficient you become, never lets you feel a sense of mastery - there really isn't enough "skill" to killing people in this game. It's simply a case of running to the armor, picking up the heavy weaponry, and taking aim. With a bit of luck and it's hey presto, you're at the top of the table.

    Next to that, COD4 plays like chess. Infinity Ward have a much better, intuitive understanding of what it takes to make people come back again and again.

  • Rodney #71 3 years ago

    polaris70,

    Whats wrong with Gangs of New York? I really liked that film.

  • Rodney #72 3 years ago

    local_celebrity,

    I dont think its not aged that well, it just wasnt that good when it came out. GTA, with its lock on shooting system, just isnt well suited to deathmatch multiplayer. still an awesome game

  • smelly #73 3 years ago

    its just dawned on me why i found GTA 4 boring.

    it's not just the boring missions - its the fact the driving in this version isnt fun.

    the phystics/driving are too "realistic" and i didnt get the same "fun" feeling driving as i did in previous versions.

    I guess I'm looking for driving along lines of burnout paradise.. i.e. fun!

  • DanDickhead #74 3 years ago

    GTA gives me mixed emotions. The environments are always fantastically done, but the missions are by and large crap. I'dve liked to have completed GTA4 but for the reasons everyone has mentioned, poor save points, flimsy controls etc I just couldn't.

  • 3william56 #75 3 years ago

    @el_pollo_diablo

    Better sweep Indy4, War of the Worlds, AI, Hook, Always, The Terminal, 1941 under that carpet whilst you're at it.

    "We're gonna need a bigger carpet"

  • Ryze #76 3 years ago

    - there's the merciful addition of mid-mission checkpoints, which transform the game's longer set-pieces from endless restart slogs into a series of discrete challenges that no longer make you so angry.

    /bows

    /cheers

  • HuggyAtHome #77 3 years ago

    Thank God for the mid-mission checkpoints - I dug this out last night and churned the same long mission at the water treatment plant 3 times after being killed right at the end each time. Controller nearly had close encounter with window.

    How does this add on link with the main game - any Nico references? Does it make more sense if you have completed the original campaign?

  • Zomoniac #78 3 years ago

    Frankie Boyle in the comedy club?!

    /buys 360, GTA4, waits for add-on

    So you can see the same jokes you've seen him do a thousand times already? He doesn't exactly have a speedy turnaround for new material.

  • thenastypasty #79 3 years ago

    Does anyone know what time the dlc is getting released?

  • Dizzy #80 3 years ago

    Impressive. Probably going to get it.... I want to support proper DLC like this.

  • Rodchenko #81 3 years ago

    mkreku, sorry if I worded that a little shoddily. I have a few issues with GTA 4 myself, but most of them are not particular to this version but rather general issues with the franchise: Annoying checkpoint system, samey missions and the hideous controls to name the gravest ones. But I think 4 makes more than up for it in atmosphere, authenticity (the city, not the story), top-notch voice acting (compared to Fallout 3 for example), 'casting' (Mallorie is my favourite), humour (Rusty Brown Donuts etc), the physics, the websites and so on.

    Maybe it's not a 10, but I really don't understand the hate it has been generating lately. I can see, however, why people prefer Vice City or San Andreas. So I take the 'whatever' back.

    Edit: Just remembered that Rusty Browns' Ring Donuts was in Vice City already. Damn, GTA 4 really sucks ;-)
    Edited by 1 at 17/02/09 @ 09:19

  • dingo75 #82 3 years ago

    I give Stephen Spielberg dips for the story of LucasArts "The Dig" which is based on a film concept that wasn't possible to be technically realized back then so it went into a game instead.
    And into what beast of a game!... :)

  • UncleLou #83 3 years ago

    I really hope the conservative vocal minority who wants to downgrade the driving to the excruciatingly dull mechanics of the GTAIIIs gets ignored by Rockstar.

  • EssAitch #84 3 years ago

    Been F5-ing marketplace. It's up now.

  • Beek4257 #85 3 years ago

    Please don't ever mention Indy 4 again. Maybe it'll just go away.

  • stepneg #86 3 years ago

    I had no real interest in this when announced but I am tempted to get it now, I don't really know why it just sounds really good even if it's more of the same.

  • symmetry #87 3 years ago

    I also want to know what time it gets released. Anyone?

  • el_pollo_diablo #88 3 years ago

    "Better sweep Indy4, War of the Worlds, AI, Hook, Always, The Terminal, 1941 under that carpet whilst you're at it."

    You do have a point.

  • Bumbuliuz #89 3 years ago

    God I hate living in a un-approved Ms country. Bought pointd today for the DLC and cant download it beacuse of my location. Hard to give theese people our hard earned money sometimes.

  • EssAitch #90 3 years ago

    The driving in GTA IV is better than it has been in any previous game in the series. In a game where so many missions are driving focused this is an absolute godsend.

  • AllenSpawn #91 3 years ago

    Downloading now!!!!

    Shame my copy of the disc has yet to come from play...

  • r4z0rbl4d3 #92 3 years ago

    Weird, seems like Live Marketplace isn't updated with the file, but if you purchase it from Xbox.com and have your console registered there, it starts downloading when you log in... I'm on 60% now. :p

  • UncleLou #93 3 years ago

    One glance at the handbrake sends you at least 180 degrees away from where you want to go, and the cars can't actually turn a corner without it.

    This is, of course, complete nonsense. Learn to drive. Once you get used to the physics in GTA IV, you can pull off maneuvers you can't in the GTA IIIs.

  • Moribundman #94 3 years ago

    @farticusmaximus I used to think so too. On playing through again recently though I noticed there's a degree of subtlety in accelerating/slowing into or out of corners (this can be tightened if you use the first person view). Once you get into it again, and you have the right vehicle, it's a pleasure to drive... Until a taxi pops out of nowhere to spin you 180 while you're cornering into the final straight of a 5 lap race...

  • Moribundman #95 3 years ago

    @r4z0rbl4d3 Dammit. I bet it's been up there since last night sometime. Should have checked my PC before heading into work...

  • r4z0rbl4d3 #96 3 years ago

    Correction!!! You find it if you go to All Games and search for GTA IV... Seems MS screwed up a bit and didn't make the thing pop up as the most recent content.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #97 3 years ago

    What the fuck has fucking Spielberg directed recently?


    A game that got a better score than this did.

  • Blackthorned #98 3 years ago

    I like the sound of this but the save system in the main game ruined it for me, and I see on here that a couple of other people here had issues with it as well.

  • EssAitch #99 3 years ago

    That is, of course, complete garbage. One glance at the handbrake sends you at least 180 degrees away from where you want to go, and the cars can't actually turn a corner without it.

    Rubbish. Unless you are completely ham fisted it is a tyre squeeling joy to flick a decent car around a corner with a tug on the handbrake and a balancing dab on the foot brake. Does this work in a refuse truck or on a moped? No, of course it doesn't.
    Edited by 2 at 17/02/09 @ 10:41

  • Wendelius #100 3 years ago

    Farticus

    I'm in the camp which prefers the GTAIV handling. It has more weight and is more subtle. SR2 feels like driving a very light kart stuck to the road in comparison. You might think the GTAIV driving model awful, but I think you'll find that not everybody agrees. And not only because we wouldn't know a good driving model if it bit us in the nose. :p

    Wendelius

  • Rodchenko #101 3 years ago

    And the cars can't actually turn a corner without it.

    How about slowing down before a corner. I mean, like in real life?

  • FmCUK #102 3 years ago

    I've not played Saints Row 2 but the handling in Saints Row was dreadful, possibly the worst I've seen. GTAIV's driving isn't a simulation, but I find it a wonderful bridge between sim and fun. Helicopters / Planes have always (in all 3D GTA's) had 3-axis movement for example, you can tell they care about realism in a way others don't.

    I just hope all the talk about an "improved handling model" for the bikes hasn't made it easier / worse. I've always found them to be fun, GTAIV's particularly.

  • UncleLou #103 3 years ago

    Driving is supposed to move the game along, not be a stumbling block that has to be mastered before you can enjoy the missions.

    It's awful game design.

    Er, driving in GTA is a central gameplay mechanic.

    God beware you have to put some effort in to get more out of it. GTAIII's driving always bored me to tears because it lacked anything except being a way to get from A to B.

  • EssAitch #104 3 years ago

    I struggle with the PCJ and, to a lesser extent, the NRG in GTA IV, but that doesn't mean they are shit, it means I am.

  • Quint2020 #105 3 years ago

    Meh, once I'd MADE myself finish GTA IV I had no desire to go back to it, this DLC doesn't change that, time for a trade-in, hopefully I'll get a decent price for it with the inevitable surge of pre-owned sales of the 360 version.

  • charliemouse #106 3 years ago

    Having GTA on both 360 and PS3 (wanted to do multi with mates on both) I kind of wish it was headed to PS3 too. I don't want to start fanboy baiting but I found the pop-up and draw-in on 360 really distracting, even though the cars handled a bit nicer (goodf old proper triggers!).

    Still, it's waiting to download when I get home, bring on the polygon-cock.

  • Wendelius #107 3 years ago

    "some other mug gets to ride the hype train instead. "

    Bitter much? Do we get to decide whether you spent your money wisely or whether you are a mug when you purchase your next game?

    Wendelius

  • jonsaan #108 3 years ago

    I can't believe the review doesn't tell you how to access the dlc?! I mean, do you have to have completed the main game to start it? Can I just jump straight in? Achievements? Info please EG!!
    Edited by 1 at 17/02/09 @ 11:14

  • JHuxley #109 3 years ago

    This looks like good value for money, glad Rockstar put some real thought & effort in to the DLC.

    That said, I won't be downloading because I only just barely finished the main game. Maybe some other time.

  • beckyh #110 3 years ago

    So is it 15 hours of storyline missions, or 15 hours of storyline plus taxi/police/ambulance missions etc? Because if the quoted 15 hours includes all the crappy side orders then you could cut that 15 hour by half probably.

  • RedPanda #111 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • RedPanda #112 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • beckyh #113 3 years ago

    @beckyh which still leaves it longer than some FPS titles eh?

    Indeed it does. I'm not trying to calculate value for money here, just trying to calculate whether I will be finishing it before work tonight :-)

  • Thunderbolt #114 3 years ago

    'Correction!!! You find it if you go to All Games and search for GTA IV... Seems MS screwed up a bit and didn't make the thing pop up as the most recent content.'

    Thanks, r4z0rbl4d3

    I woke up at 4am and then 8am to get the download started!

    Now I find its hidden in the All games section. Bah!

  • RedPanda #115 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Daikon #116 3 years ago

    Instead, it's approaching the kind of package most developers would have few qualms about boxing up and selling to you full-price as an entirely new game.

    At 1600 points it'd better...

  • beckyh #117 3 years ago

    Its not hidden. Its in GAME ADD-ONS - just after the new rock band stuff, about the 4th entry along.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #118 3 years ago

    Oh no! This means that the overall score for the Xbox version is now only a 9 whereas the other versions are still 10! Disaster! Noooo!

  • septimus #119 3 years ago

    Is it true the film grain makes the game look pretty horrid at points? Something the IGN review commented on. Not a show stopper, just curious.

  • r4z0rbl4d3 #120 3 years ago

    I've been playing TLD for a couple of hours and it's great. Awesome characters, cool music, another well-made story but also the awful vehicle physics (keeping your car/bike on it's wheels while running from the cops is more luck than skill in missions = bad physics.)...

    I can live with the driving and I recomend it!

  • ronuds #121 3 years ago

    I didn't find any poblems with the driving. It's not perfectly easy, but then driving 100 mph through a crowded intersection isn't supposed to be.

  • jonsaan #122 3 years ago

    Thanks zerolight!

    Now I'm actually interested in it!

  • mukki #123 3 years ago

    Want to download but in Germany

    does anyone know what the deal is here?

    will the english audio track be included?

    I am assuming it will be but you never know... consider all the video material on xbl is in german or with subs bahhh

    any feedback would be great

  • UncleLou #124 3 years ago

    I doubt they dubbed it. There's no German audio for the full game, is there?

    Subtitles can be turned off.

  • mkreku #125 3 years ago

    Whoever claims the driving in GTA4 is "more realistic" needs to spend way less money on games and more money on getting a driver's license.

    Cars DO NOT skid 300 yards whenever you step on the brakes going 30 mph! Cars DO NOT strive to go backwards and use the slightest touch of the handbrake as an excuse to turn their ass first! Cars CAN turn more than 15 degrees in any direction even when going above 50 mph! Cars DO NOT regularly behave like being drive on ice with slicks.. unless you are actually driving on ice with slicks.

    I once (during a race, no less) collided with a tree (actually, more like a twig standing up from the ground) with my bouncy, heavy, backwards-sliding car. It made my car jump straight up into the air, nose first. The it fell down on its ass and stayed that way, leaning against the tree. Very realistic.

  • LewisResolution #126 3 years ago

    Frankie Boyle in the comedy club, eh? Delivering the same set he's been doing for the last four years, by any chance?

    OOOOOH!

  • UncleLou #127 3 years ago

    Whoever claims the driving in GTA4 is "more realistic" needs to spend way less money on games and more money on getting a driver's license.

    Absolutely.

    However, my GTA IV behaves absolutely nothing like what you describe in the following section.

  • EssAitch #128 3 years ago

    Whoever claims the driving in GTA4 is "more realistic" needs to spend way less money on games and more money on getting a driver's license.

    I think the point is that it is more realistic than the arcade no-skillers like GTA III Saint Andreas 2 City Stories. It's still a game.

  • Rodchenko #129 3 years ago

    First thing I would try before whining about the handbrake is actually NOT to use it ever. It's not like you have to.

  • smelly #130 3 years ago

    >i>"The driving in GTA IV is better than it has been in any previous game in the series. In a game where so many missions are driving focused this is an absolute godsend."[/i]

    It depends how you define "better" really isnt it?

    It might be more realistic.. but it's not fun.. driving around is boring as hell compared to previous games.. No sense of speed or fun. See Saints Row or Burnout Paradise for my idea of what a good (i.e. read "fun";) driving model is.

    There's soooo much driving too and from missions in this bore fest.. that not having the driving fun is a shame..


    "I don't give a shit about bikers andseeing a digital dick means a no sale. "

    Let me guess.. if it had a digital fanny you would've bought it?

    Oh dear.. You sad sad sad human being...
    Edited by 1 at 17/02/09 @ 15:57

  • metalangel #131 3 years ago

    I think I'm put off by the fact I have to ride a big heavy cruiser bike, and with good reason. I use the sport bikes in the main game lots, and find escaping the cops on them is dangerous as they just cut across your path and send you flying.. So you are lolling helpless in the road being filled with bullets, and your bike is 100 feet back down the road wedged in the side of a lit up cruiser, the occupants of which have gotten out and are now shooting you. You are now fucked. Mission failed. And I get the feeling EVERY mission here is gonna involve running from the cops on your bike.

  • imamazed #132 3 years ago

    " I think I'm put off by the fact I have to ride a big heavy cruiser bike, and with good reason. I use the sport bikes in the main game lots, and find escaping the cops on them is dangerous as they just cut across your path and send you flying.. So you are lolling helpless in the road being filled with bullets, and your bike is 100 feet back down the road wedged in the side of a lit up cruiser, the occupants of which have gotten out and are now shooting you. You are now fucked. Mission failed. And I get the feeling EVERY mission here is gonna involve running from the cops on your bike. "


    Bike physics have been changed now and it's a lot harder to get rammed off your bike :)

    That's that one solved

  • EssAitch #133 3 years ago

    It might be more realistic.. but it's not fun.. driving around is boring as hell compared to previous games.. No sense of speed or fun. See Saints Row or Burnout Paradise for my idea of what a good (i.e. read "fun";) driving model is.

    Driving in GTA IV is more fun than driving in any previous GTA. While waiting for TLaD to download, I put the main game on and all I did was blast around Algonquin in a succession of Feltzers and Range Rovers, playing pedestrian hockey and cat and mouse with the police. It was a tire squeeling, opposite locking, handbrake turning riot.

    Saints Row has already been fingered for an arcadey no-skiller along the lines of San Andreas and I don't give a toss about Burnout Paradise (which, as a pure driving game, bloody well ought to be better). PGR 4 has a better driving model as well, as have Gran Turismo and Forza. Apples and oranges, who gives a shit?
    Edited by 2 at 17/02/09 @ 16:20

  • gman7714 #134 3 years ago

    Finished GTA4 main story just this weekend and have to say that although it didn't make me lol as much as previous iterations, I really enjoyed 4 once I got into it. Great voice work, driving for me once I got used to the handling was a doddle, though I struggled with some of the bikes. 9/10 imo because of the pop in and less humour

    My main gripe is how the frak are you supposed to find 200 pidgeons, think I've found about 9 so far!!

    DLC sounds pretty cool so will pick it up sometime in the near future.

  • metalangel #135 3 years ago

    gman, there is a good map and accompanying videos on xbox360achievements.o rg showing all the pigeons. Frankly, finding (and keeping track of) them all would be nearly impossible without a map. I have 31 left to go, following the map to find them is fun!

  • gman7714 #136 3 years ago

    @ metalangel

    Thanks I'll check it out :)

  • smelly #137 3 years ago

    "I don't give a toss about Burnout Paradise (which, as a pure driving game, bloody well ought to be better). PGR 4 has a better driving model as well, as have Gran Turismo and Forza. Apples and oranges, who gives a shit?"


    Why DO gamers get sooo upset about these things?

    Yes burnout paradise is a pure driving game.. but then i spend 99% of gta4 driving too.. After all the game name is grand theft AUTO. Reason i mentioned Burnout Paradise is because the driving mechanics are based purely on fun as opposed to realsim (same as previous gta games felt)... In fact playing burnout paradise FEELS like im playing an old gta game.. only with next gen graphics.

    Comparing burnout paradise or gta4 to Gran Turismon or Forza (both serious "real" driving games) makes no sense however.

  • oktava #138 3 years ago

    I would say the car physics is better than in 90% of dedicated "racing games". If I want to play Mario Kart I play Mario Kart.

  • UncleLou #139 3 years ago

    Burnout is fun because it's blazingly fast. Hardly an option for GTA. Makes absolutely no sense to even mention it.

  • Spekingur #140 3 years ago

    The first two GTA games had the best handling, ever. Then again, those were top down view games.

  • speedsix #141 3 years ago

    Downloading at around 1MB every 5mins. By my calculations I will be playing this next Thursday.

    Please can everyone stop downloading it thanks.


    p.s the driving model in GTAIV is excellent.
    Edited by 1 at 17/02/09 @ 19:29

  • smelly #142 3 years ago

    to each their own.. i thought the driving model was good.. but not fun.. And previous gta games have been ALL about fun.

  • drumbaby #143 3 years ago

    Better than Gears eh?

  • septimus #144 3 years ago

    @septimus - you can turn the film grain off in the options, so if you don't like it, it is entirely moot. "

    Cool. Only downloaded it, not had a chance to try it out.

  • speedsix #145 3 years ago

    I think more depth was given to the handling to facilitate online race mode personally.

  • CrimsonCleaver #146 3 years ago

    @metalangel

    Don't worry about falling off the bike, they've tweaked the game so that is far less likely. And missions so far involve other bikers rather than just cops.

    Overall I highly recommend the DLC so far. I'm not one for purchasing DLC on the 360, and I wasn't a massive GTAIV fan but kept my copy incase the DLC was good, and.....IMO it's awesome, better characters than the vanilla game and the Road Rash mode is awesome fun.

  • keith123 #147 3 years ago

    Started downloading 2 hours ago & it's only on 11% now!

  • chrispontius #148 3 years ago

    RIP OFF DONT BUY IT
    GAME EXCLUSIVE DEALS SHOULD BE BANNED
    ROCKSTAR SHOULD HAVE RELEASED THIS WITH THE ORIGINAL GAME INSTAED YOU PAY NEARLY £60 FOR A GAME
    FALLOUT 3 AND TOMB RAIDER AS WELL INCOMPLETE GAMES LAUNCHED WOULD YOU HAVE PAID FOR THE EXTRA CONTENT ON YOUR PS3 OR FIRST X-BOX , NO CAUSE FULL GAMES WERE RELEASED BACK THEN

    BOYCOTT THIS

  • MrsPacMan #149 3 years ago

    @chris

    Calm down mate, you'll have a stroke

    lol, just read a couple of other posts from Chris, a serial killer in the making is my opinion
    Edited by 2 at 17/02/09 @ 23:35

  • local_celebrity #150 3 years ago

    Initial impressions.

    Grain filter: horrible.
    Voice acting and cutscenes: eclipsing the original so far.
    Driving: still fiddly.

    That is all.

  • Marshall2008 #151 3 years ago

    @chrispontius

    Its not content missing from the original release its new content that has taken almost a year to produce. I could agree with you for some other titles but this has as much production (if not more) than many full price games.

    If anything this is the kind of content that we, as gamers, want to encourage.

  • local_celebrity #152 3 years ago

    Turned the grain filter off. Everything now looks a million times better. Is it just me, or are the graphics in this even sharper than the orginal? I've just been cruising around Algonquin at night, and was struck by how vibrant all the colours were. It's like a new game.

    Now if only I could change the music policy in that dreaded Club House. That hard rock is already giving me earache. I'd rather listen to Jive Bunny than that shit.

  • DonLimey #153 3 years ago

    Somewhat annoyingly the game keeps crshing on me between getting Billy's bike back and going back to the clubhouse. Trying an install to rectify the problem.

  • MrsPacMan #154 3 years ago

    @Donlimey

    Tell someone that gives a shit

  • frankfurter209 #155 3 years ago

    The GTA4 haters are really starting to grate on my nerves. You guys *still* complaining about the realistic handling, get the fuck over it. I love the way the cars handle. The sense of weight and depth to each car made them all a pleasure to drive. That "realism" is fun to me, not lightweight go-karts a la Saints Row, so fuck off.

  • smelly #156 3 years ago

    @MrsPacMan: I give a shit.. as if this is a common fault - it's something which gamers need to know about.

  • smelly #157 3 years ago

    @chrispontius: years ago, you'd have had it as a near-full-price mission pack bought from a store.. so stop yer whinning.

  • FromTheLandUnknown #158 3 years ago

    Sorry if somebody already mentioned it, but voice acting in GTA IV isn't excellent at all. Especially Nico Bellic is the worst. The Serb language acting is terrible, and above all, totally nonsense. I speak fluently serb, croatian, and all other dialects, which emerged from once one language, Serbocroatian, and I should know. It's hard to endure all nonsense and bad pronunciation, which are put in the game. And no, the words are definitely not Russian, like some are claiming in some forums and sites.
    Telling to someone, which gives a shit.
    Apart from that, bad save system is ruining the game. And too much driving. I don't understand, why more people are not saying that, there were many complaints in Far cry 2, but there was not nearly as much of it.

  • muscleblade #159 3 years ago

    15 hours - damn i dont have time for this at the moment. Saving it for later i guess.

  • HuggyAtHome #160 3 years ago

    @chrispontius

    Somebody needs a jazz ciggarette / whalesong and a bit of fresh air. If you feel so badly about it don't buy it. In fact don't read/comment on the review.

  • Pac #161 3 years ago

    I was not expecting that much after reading the review. But played it for a few hours last night and my first impressions were very good.

    The characters are interesting and the chopper handling is better than any other vehicle in the game. I even like the new grainy graphics. Just a few niggles - like the reduction in vehicles when out with the gang.

    The races are great. The fact that you can hit the other riders with baseball bats means that the races are are bit like those in Road Rash. Still not perfect but much better than the standard races on GTAIV.

    Plus some great new music tracks - if you like hard rock of course.

    Big improvement all round I would say.

  • G__ #162 3 years ago

    Impressions, downloading took a couple of hours not painfull.
    GTA4 disc into xbox.
    Update
    GTA4 starts message you have downloaded the lost and the damned" you want to play ? YES!
    The floating pics much sharper the music not as good in the load screen loved the insiduous little tune on the original.
    straight in.....loving it

    On the bike.....woah ....never liked the bikes much, bikes control better still getting used to it.
    Combat, johnny feels a bit slower than niko .......shotgun is great......2 shot kills from the distance....nice !
    Staying in formation ....hard ...but a mini challenge.....

    Overall , didnt even notice the grain filter will try tonight.
    Did think the cinematics were rendered better.
    Script is great, really like the dialogue

    Died ---loaded straight back to mission start...nice touch....

    Hey everyone....its definetly worth the money.....but combat needs more refining especially after being spoilt by gears :)

  • Rodchenko #163 3 years ago

    Shooting not like Halo
    Driving not like Burnout
    Graphics not like Gears

    You guys are insane. Next someone comes along complaining that it doesn't have V.A.T.S, because 'that's what I am used to now'...

    I just traded in my PS3 copy for a 360 one via Amazon just to get this (and actually made a few bucks in doing so ;-). Keep on whining all you want.

  • G__ #164 3 years ago

    actually my comment was not a complaint different game.
    But lets be honest after gears put effective cover on the map....everyone started doing it
    and this was my impression when i played the niko story....
    tbh loved the combat in GTA4

    now i finding myself to daring i.e gears spoilt me 3rd person running rolling into cover.....


    HEY dont get me wrong i love the lost and the damned and you did the right thing trading in your PS3 copy.

    Question why the hell did you get in the first place ????
    well hope your 360 experience is better (which im sure it will be )

    later

  • dryden555 #165 3 years ago


    GTA 4 felt like a shorter retread of better GTA games that preceded it.

    I'll pass on the DLC

  • Telemikus #166 3 years ago

    RockStar are the current kings of gaming characterisation. Tommy Vercetti, CJ and Niko are some of the most interesting games characters created. Wheras 99 precent of most games characters are variations of Arnold Shwarzenegger or Sylester Stallone, Rockstars characters try and go beyond the sterotypes, even if they use them as a starting point (russian gangster, LA gang member, Mafioso).

    Niko especially, and his brother Roman are actually better realised characters than many leading actors in a lot of films. The cut scene direction is not qute at the standard of the best films of recent decades, but it's getting closer. Relative to a lot of modern films I watch, Niko and Roman are more likable and relatable. Not all of the dialogue is first class, but a lot of it is pretty sharp, and the cultural refererancing throughout the game is something that I yet to see films do as well. A lot of it is kind of nod nod wink wink, and many people don't notice just how much if it their is.