Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Review

By Tom Bramwell Published 17 March, 2008

Running rings around the PAL version.

Version tested: PlayStation 3

Doing things in high definition takes longer. We all know that. The average car in Gran Turismo 4 was made up of over 4,000 polygons. The figure for GT5 Prologue is meant to be higher than 200,000. Being pretty goes a long way, but with 71 cars and just six tracks (High Speed Ring, Daytona, Fuji Speedway, Eiger Nordwand from Gran Turismo HD Concept, Suzuka Circuit and a section of central London), it will have to go a very long way, right? That's not a lot of content, even when you factor in a second variation of each track. GT4 had 721 cars. GT5 Prologue launches in Europe with 71. We may be 11 million polygons ahead, but we're 650 cars behind.

Fortunately, Prologue does a lot with the means at its disposal. 30 race events are split evenly across three classes. Initially you're hauling cheap Suzukis and Hondas to the front of 8 to 12-car packs for two or three laps, reinvesting the prize purse in faster cars. As the field thickens with Skylines, Imprezas, Mustangs and Ford GTs, you're asked to go further, the AI pushing you harder.

Complete A-Class and you unlock a Quick Tune feature - new for the European Prologue - that lets you adjust weight ratios, aerodynamics, ride heights, camber angles, torque balance, gear ratios and other performance-related settings, with your work graded against a performance index. You can make real-time performance adjustments during races by assigning custom configurations to buttons on the Sixaxis or Driving Force GT wheel, and a further run of ten S-Class events specifically for tuned cars pushes you harder still, penalising you for ramming or taking shortcuts, in a field of 16 cars just as if not more tricked out than yours. Even if you coast through A-Class, S-Class will force you to regroup and work out what all the dials do.

'Gran Turismo 5 Prologue' Screenshot 1

When you buy a car, it drives out of the dark toward you and brakes suddenly as threatening music plays. Nobody tell Audi's ads company.

To get that far takes over a dozen hours, and you probably have fewer cars than that in your garage when you do. You can also race in Manufacturer-specific races, hidden away in the Dealership screens, for extra credits. Then there's Arcade mode, where you can tackle any of the game's tracks in whichever configuration you like, with any vehicle, either as a one-off race, a Time Trial, or a Drift Trial. Drift Trial is what kept us picking away at Gran Turismo HD Concept for so long, throwing the back out around Eiger Nordwand and watching videos of scarily dedicated Japanese gamers doing the same thing more effectively on YouTube and trying to copy them. Now you can do it with far more cars, and a range of tuning options, on six tracks. Also new to the European Prologue is two-player, horizontal split-screen racing, which works without any obvious dip in performance.

On the track, those 200,000 polygons glide through turns at 60 frames-per-second, a few slight dips excepted, in the promised 1080p resolution. A lot of them must have gone into the car interior, from where you can now view the action if you prefer, watching your driver's gloved hands gently correcting slides and reaching for the gear-stick, and looking over your shoulder past stupidly accurate rear spoilers. The weather is consistently bright and cheery, limiting track conditions but allowing you to gawp at reflections crawling realistically over the bodywork of cars ahead of you and in your mirrors. As you steer and brake through the first corner at Suzuka, the shadows move across your dashboard and body, and as you exit the tunnel on High Speed Ring the sunshine blinds you until the detail emerges from the glare.

'Gran Turismo 5 Prologue' Screenshot 2

Event mode consists of races as well as the odd time trial or overlap challenge.

GT's visuals are sometimes accused of lacking personality - a perception reinforced by its robotic artificial intelligence. On the latter point, rolling starts do away with your ability to bully opponents out of the way on the first corner, although the cars remain completely invincible, so it's still an annoyingly useful tactic unless the foul-play penalties are active to throttle you back for a few seconds when you misbehave. On the whole though opposition defends the racing line more aggressively, and the combination of high speeds and unforgiving physics mean it's impractical to block using your rear-view. As for personality, few mainstream racing games - Forza now excepted - demand as much braking skill and obedience to the racing line.

Even so, it's all surprisingly easy to get into. GT's infamous licence tests are absent, but beginners can call upon steering and stability management to correct oversteer and avoid skids, while the driving line shows you where to go and where to brake. Braking target-speeds hover above corners, so if you keep half an eye on the speedometer you can see exactly when to reapply acceleration, and there's no penalty for using these crutches throughout the game, while the volume of cars beyond your means on the first play-through and the fearsome challenge of the S-Class races encourage you to kick off the stabilisers once you're suitably adjusted.

GT bills itself as "The Real Driving Simulator". There's depth here thanks to a choice of Standard and Professional driving physics, emphasising the already stark differences between the various cars. As well as choosing between three types of normal, racing and sports tyres, as you could in HD Concept, you can now choose different sets for front and rear. The Quick Tune page is host to countless sliders, drop-downs, and graphs plotting torque, power and gear ratios. Cars are tangibly beholden to what's been set for them, and audio cues assist with slipstreaming, while the track surface is manicured subtly enough that you can feel the difference in key areas. Vibration will help here, when DualShock3 eventually materialises in the West, and Prologue's ready for it.

'Gran Turismo 5 Prologue' Screenshot 3

The new split-screen mode runs extremely well.

The game's interface is no less slick. Everything is accessed through My Page, a glossy preview of your currently-selected car in quiet surroundings, like a crumbly stone-walled garden in Nurburg, where your car nests in thick grass and butterflies dance in the sunlight, or a quiet-looking Kyoto suburb or a park in Bad Neuenahr. Icons run across the bottom of the screen, and as long as you're connected to PSN a calendar sits on the left beneath a compressed world map dotted with race locations, each one throbbing slightly as a rotation of real-time weather readouts for each area refreshes in the top-right. From My Page you can access racing news (sadly not active pre-release) and download high-definition videos from Gran Turismo TV. These include historical videos (and, if you bought the PSN version rather than Blu-ray, downloadable versions of the opening and closing movies), and Top Gear episodes are meant to follow thanks to a deal with the BBC.

Another icon of which you'll be taking note is "Online", the doorway to Prologue's vaunted 16-player online races, but this is easily the weakest part of the game in its current state. With no in-game XMB (summer, hopefully) and no bespoke friends lists or proper matchmaking options, you just pick one of the server-set tasks and wait for the game to link you up with other players. Pre-release, these were placeholder tasks like a single-lap, all-comers race around a particular circuit, and an online time trial with its own leaderboard. Next to the vast array of options and brilliant Xbox Live integration in games like Forza Motorsport 2 and Project Gotham Racing 4 on 360, it's incredibly basic, although Polyphony plans to add more functionality later. As long as the range of tasks is refreshed regularly, it should offer a lot of gameplay, and performance was solid in our tests, but keeping the specifications out of your hands is completely at odds with the rest of the game.

'Gran Turismo 5 Prologue' Screenshot 4

The in-car view rapidly became our favourite. As you can see, the game also does a good line in ghost cars and, of course, save-able race replays. No Photo mode though - what happened to that?

And while the interface is certainly arresting, it's a little unintuitive in places. Events and split-screen races allow you to restart the same race or boot you back to My Page; there's no quick and simple way to switch between cars without entering the Garage via My Page (irritating when you'd rather just move onto the next task in sequence with a suitable car); and while the range of adjustable game options is vast, they are only accessible, again, via My Page, and not during races, where adjusting button layouts and audio levels is most practical and desirable. There's no option to customise the music you hear, either, and single songs repeat themselves during events that exceed their runtime, rather than cycling to the next.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is cluttered with minor imperfections and imbalances such as these. Event mode takes longer to finish than many of the PS3's big-name action games, and Quick Tune extends its life considerably, but it's not brilliantly structured. Drift Trials are separate, racing penalties are ignored until S-Class and Manufacturer races. The gorgeous London track is barely used unless you go after it. Prologue's definitely not just a demo, but it's not quite a game, either - it's more of a play-set for petrolheads, declining to impress more than a tokenistic difficulty curve upon you and letting you tinker and challenge yourself instead. As a result it's not quite brilliant, and we particularly mourn the apparently stillborn online racing, but there's more than enough here to justify the asking price, and exploring it all is a consistently pleasurable experience, which should have considerable appeal for GT's ardent supporters and satisfy the curiosity of the rapidly-growing PS3 installed base at the same time.

8 / 10

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is due out on PSN on 27th March and Blu-ray at retail on 28th March.

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
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About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (155) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Milk #1 4 years ago

    /is exited

    How much are the PSN and blueray versions going to cost?
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 11:42

  • spookyzombie #2 4 years ago

    When's this out?

  • Inquisitor #3 4 years ago

    Isn't that mountain track in GTHD aswell?

  • Killerbee #4 4 years ago

    I never, ever found any enjoyment out of all the tuning stuff - yeah, give me upgrades to spend my in-game cash on, but really - sometimes detail can be a bit too in-depth. Each to their own though...

    Personally I think I'll be giving this a miss until GT5 proper comes along. It's certainly not going to persuade me to buy a PS3 any time soon.

  • a212 #5 4 years ago

    Dear reviewer :),

    There are 40 race-events spread through 4 clases (review states "30 race events are split evenly across three classes";). Fourth, S class opens after you finish C, B and A event venues.

    Just for information though.

    If you're really intrested in details, here is the full lowdown on all the facts regarding PAL GT5: P release (you have to be registred in order to see the pictures). Including the fact that PAL GT5: P comes with plethora of new cars, including Ferrari's F1 car from 2007 season.

    [link url=http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=103447 ]http://ww w.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread...[/link]


    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 11:46

  • miiiguel #6 4 years ago

    It looks better when standing still.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #7 4 years ago

    THANK GOD! AT LAST A RACING GAME WHERE WE CAN ADJUST THE CAMBER ANGLES!

  • Madlax #8 4 years ago

    My....what an unusually boring read.

    comparing the online component to that of another system...eh ? Basic online ? isnt that what we had in PC gaming for ages ? did they forget that you can play GT:5p online for free without having to pay for a peer-2-peer service ?

    "And is there a reason that the shots of GT5 you have here the shittiest graphics I've ever seen in a racing game? "

    go play forza 2 and tell me that again.

    Sony should increase there marketing budget for the game to include gaming sites, reviews like these are not acceptable. writing reviews is a business-after all. they should really spend more cash to hype games.

  • coojam #9 4 years ago

    So is GT5 "proper" going to go up against Forza 3 do we think? GT5 would be the tipping point for many, including myself, purchasing a PS3, but if Forza comes along, I might just stick with my 360. Y'know, assuming the graphics are better this time.

    Am I the only one who thinks it would be fun to have a racing game where you drive SHIT cars around? I don't mean like Destruction Derby, but where I can race my 12 yr old Rover 400 against my mate's Ford Fiesta? I mean, it wouldn't be fast, but it would be fun.

    OK, I sound like a chav now...

  • ruttyboy #10 4 years ago

    @ coojam

    That's exactly what I like about the GT games, gives you a chance to race older road cars as well as all the high end stuff.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 12:01

  • Milk #11 4 years ago

    "they should really spend more cash to hype games." ?!?

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #12 4 years ago

    "There are 40 race-events spread through 4 clases (review states "30 race events are split evenly across three classes";). Fourth, S class opens after you finish C, B and A event venues. "

    Yes, it says that in the text if you read to the end of the following paragraph.

    "What a strange review, first you compare it against a full game, then it offers a lot of content for the asking price, and then you blame the game for not having features that are integrated into the XMB, which isn't the games' fault."

    I don't blame it for not having features integrated into the XMB, I point out that multiplayer games are remarkably difficult to enjoy without any way to find your friends.

    "I'm sorry, but no; it's not acceptable."

    I said "excepted", not "accepted".

  • levis #13 4 years ago

    "When you buy a car, it drives out of the dark toward you and brakes suddenly as threatening music plays. Nobody tell Audi's ads company."

    Is this true? lol. Would be pretty cool.

  • miiiguel #14 4 years ago

    "they should really spend more cash to hype games."
    typo ?: ""they should really spend more cash MAKING (proper) games." ?

    or one truly prefers to have a super-duper-hyper seling game, rather than a good one ?
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 12:02

  • Darren #15 4 years ago

    Sounds great not that I wasn't expecting it to be as I've already played both GT HD and the Japanese GT5 Prologue demo. I'm paying £17.50 for the disc-based game from GAME so I can't really grumble at the lack of content, I'm fine with paying that for a "taster".

  • Peew971 #16 4 years ago

    @ Madlax: Are you suggesting Sony should bribe reviewers to get great reviews? Don't you find something wrong with that?

  • Madlax #17 4 years ago

    Unfortunately, games are product so to those who are wondering what i mean by my words. this is how every industry works. i,m surprised there are people asking

    the media can easily shape the perception of potential buyers of any game, an average game that is hyped by the media will easily outsell a higher quality game with less recognition. see Halo 3 as an example of an above-average game selling high figures.

    marketing a game through gaming sites reviews, blogs and even forums is common in such a competitive market. i dont see whats surprising.

  • gal2319 #18 4 years ago

    So, GT5 is HD but GT:HD isn't?
    LOL?

  • Clive_Dunn #19 4 years ago

    "those who are wondering what i mean by my words"

    That'll be everyone with half a brain then ?

  • Peew971 #20 4 years ago

    @ Madlax: So you're actually standing by your words O_o You're saying games should be scored accordingly with the amount of money thrown at the reviewers, that's just sick.

  • ParanoidZombie #21 4 years ago

    Bottom line: will the final version of GT5 be Prologue with more cars (including the mandatory 65 versions of the almighty Nissan Skyline), more tracks (Deep Forest 10th anniversary), Dual Shock3 and Home integration (hopefully), or can we expect some new significant groundbreaking stuff to be added (I don't know, dynamic weather a la PGR4, destructible cars, new modes or whatever)?
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 12:19

  • neuroniky #22 4 years ago

    Has the racing got any better?

    Driving in GT has always been good to great, but the racing department was always pretty much shit. Racers stuck to the perfect line and you can just win a race by just overtaking them at the first turn... no trace of IA whatsoever.

    If this can get the racing part right, I'm all for it...

  • Darren #23 4 years ago

    @gal2319 - GT HD does run in high-definition since the requirement is that it must be 720p minimum to qualify as HD. This is a measurement of the vertical resolution only. Both GT HD and GT5 Prologue support 720p and 1080p.

  • prolific8 #24 4 years ago

    Not as good as Forza then.

  • stoopidgreg #25 4 years ago

    looks alright, but more tracks would have been preferred over more cars. i would rather 10 cars and 10 tracks than the 70 cars and 6 tracks... not that i'm buying it anyway since i don't own a PS3 =)

  • jonsaan #26 4 years ago

    'The gorgeous London track is barely used unless you go after it.'

    I spent hours and hours doing the London Events. I don't understand what you mean by barely used?

  • gal2319 #27 4 years ago

    Darren - thank's, i understand now.
    they both sound pretty much the same racers, just tweeks here and there..

  • Darren #28 4 years ago

    @prolific8 - "Not as good as Forza then."

    In terms of gameplay and physics, no, but it thrashes Forza 2 in the graphical stakes at least, not exactly difficult given Forza 2's Xbox 1.5 visuals.

  • Madlax #29 4 years ago

    @Peew971

    "So you're actually standing by your words O_o You're saying games should be scored accordingly with the amount of money thrown at the reviewers, that's just sick."

    Thats how the industry works...sick ? maybe, but thats how it is in every competitive market. quality is a 'vague' term and can be manipulated by the media. heck, word of mouth and forum posters may have more effect on the sales of a game than its actual quality.

    I dont personally like it this way, but thats how it is. what the 'product' is matters not...what people think of it is what matters, just look how many average games we have now managed to get excellent sales through hype and 'objective' reviews/articles.


  • Sulphur_Man #30 4 years ago

    Seriously depressing. Not the review, the game.

    Forget all the guff about the effort gone into GT5 as a simulation, the car models, the polygon count, yadda yadda yadda..... and realise that GT5 has failed on the one area it needed, actually HAD, to deliver - online gameplay.

    Of course it was going to be stunning to look at, it's predecessors all took their respective hardware platforms to places we didnt know existed, and GT5 seems the same. But for the online element to be described as 'stillborn' makes GT5 a total failure.

  • ParanoidZombie #31 4 years ago

    @Darren: so GT5 is forza 2's gameplay + PGR4's graphics, then?;)

  • Agent_Llama #32 4 years ago

    The trouble with GT5 is it appears lack any personality whatsoever. I played the Japanese demo, and whilst it was great to have more cars on track etc, the whole experience was rather cold. Still not sold on this, would rather wait for the full game - whatever that entails.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 12:40

  • rotmm #33 4 years ago

    Xiphos: And is there a reason that the shots of GT5 you have here the shittiest graphics I've ever seen in a racing game?

    You do realise that the lighting, shaders, etc are bumped up significantly for when watching the races in replay mode? Those shots look like they are taken in-game racing.

  • Arwin #34 4 years ago

    I wouldn't be surprised if the US release of Prologue will see support for custom games and friends lists along with an update for the EU version, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm fairly sure that it will be in there at the very least by the time the Home Beta opens up.

  • Darren #35 4 years ago

    @ParanoidZombie - Based on the GT HD and Japanese GT5 Prologue demo I've played, I'd have to say personally that I think PGR 4 is the better looking game IMO given that it sacrifices the framerate (30 fps vs. 60 fps of GT5) for more detail, including weather and minor damage modelling. That said the difference isn't as huge as I expected and GT5 does manage more cars onscreen and 1080p too. Both are great-looking games though and piss on Forza 2's bland looks from a great height! Still Forza 2 is definitely the "real driving simulation" despite GT5's inaccurate tagline and plays much better than it looks fortunately.

  • seasidebaz #36 4 years ago

    @darren:

    forza2 being the real driving simulation?

    hmmmm not quite, i've yet to see a ford focus outrun a saleen s7 in the real world...

  • mkreku #37 4 years ago

    miiiguel: or one truly prefers to have a super-duper-hyper seling game, rather than a good one ?

    Are you talking about Halo 3 again..?

  • Pooley #38 4 years ago

    Definitely looking forward to this, I've spent many an hour racing around in GT4 and I'm looking forward to the improvements in GT5p, and GT5 when it eventually arrives. I'll get a chance to use my steering wheel again as well.

    Blu-ray or PSN though?

  • Darren #39 4 years ago

    @seasidebaz - I was meaning Forza 2 is more realistic in the A.I., physics, handling and damage modelling department and I doubt GT5 will come close to it personally. It's not perfect admittedly but it's the best attempt yet at making a driving simulation on a console IMO and the developers have sacrificed the visuals in order to achieve that.

  • UncleLou #40 4 years ago

    Not quite enough to sell a PS3 to me (especially as I don't have an HDTV), but GT5 will. There's a certain magic about GT that other racing games simply lack, and it'll manage to sell me once more a Sony console in the end. And I am not even a car enthusiast.

  • Lexx87 #41 4 years ago

    Why arn't they just making one GT5 game? Why is it coming out in little bits?

  • rotmm #42 4 years ago

    Lexx87, Money.

  • RandolphScott #43 4 years ago

    It does seem a strange review. I had no idea whether the score was going to be 5 or 9 from reading it.

    And why (pray) is it unacceptable to drop framerate? Or should that be unexpectable?

  • optimusprym8 #44 4 years ago

    Been playing the Jap version and it's still GT i.e. car porn. Handling is ok, AI slightly improved but still pretty dumb compared to Forza2, tire squeeling noise is annoying, subtle wind noises, or lack of, when drafting is nice. 1080p still results in jaggies, FFS Sony enable FSAA. Rumble support is present but may as well not be. Tracks look alright but too clinical. Nice lighting in places however. 6/10
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 13:28

  • RustyBullet #45 4 years ago

    @Madlax.... i think you need to engage youre brain before you but txt down. Hype dosnt make a good game. Make a good game and then you will get good reviews. Throwing money at reviewers would just give good reviews to shit games that people would then go out and buy and then have to take a loss in there pockets when they have to trade garbage in. I was looking forward to actualy being able to purchase a game for my PS3 that looks promiseing but to be honest i think i will just carry on with PGR4 and Forza for my raceing needs for now. Maybe the full release will be better.

  • smoothn00dle #46 4 years ago

    I am excited! *v* Will this game spark PS3 sales?

  • OnlyMe #47 4 years ago

    I just have one question. How the fuck does GT5 lack personality, while other games in the same genre doesn't? What the fuck is this "personality" in Forza 2 or PGR4 that you can't find in GT5?

  • JackB #48 4 years ago

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell

    THANK GOD! AT LAST A RACING GAME WHERE WE CAN ADJUST THE CAMBER ANGLES!

    =====================

    There are plenty of reasons to be excited, but that's not one of them. :-) You could adjust camber angles in 2004 with Forza 1 and in 2006 with Forza 2.

  • Kenshin001 #49 4 years ago

    Considerably pissed off to find out the PAL and US versions will have more features and content since I bought the J version, living in Japan and all.

    Fuck you Sony.

  • Garulon #50 4 years ago

    EG: "Full" 1080p is 1920x1080, not 1280x720 verically upscaled to 1280x1080. you're losing 1.5x the resolution!

  • seasidebaz #51 4 years ago

    plus:

    forza2 let you put lots of positive camber on the wheels, making drifting very very easy :)

  • miiiguel #52 4 years ago

    "Are you talking about Halo 3 again..?"

    That 10/10 game?, the criticaly aclaimed one ?...er..., no, I wasn't. But it would be fun if Bungie had pull a stunt like GT5: Prologue - "Halo 3: Start Finishing the fight"

  • Arwin #53 4 years ago

    @JackB: I'm sure he means on the PS3, as camber I think could be adjusted already in GT1. You'll not even want me to quote the year that was released. ;)

    16 cars on track, cockpit view, those are definitely things that are a big step forward here. By the way, is it me or have the in-car view shadows been improved? By the way, I'm not sure yet of the full picture, but the AI in GT5 Prologue is better than some people here give it credit for. It's very much aware of whether you are driving next to it or not, even in a turn, and will do its best (and mostly succeed) to avoid you, even to the point that if you move towards it on a straight, it'll rather have two tries on or over the edge of the track than crash into you. In Forza 1 and 2 I've been crashed by the AI tapping my rear from the side a tonne of times.

    For the Japanese version (which I have too by the way), it will be interesting to see if they get downloadable upgrades. The PAL version certainly is a huge step up from the Japanese version already currently though, with the extra track (though I'd have preferred a different one), the extra cars (at least 20 more, of which 3 ferraris, of which one an F1 car :D) and the tuning options that have turned out to be a lot more advanced than I expected them to be, and the return of drifting events and leaderboards.

    It will be interesting to see if the US version has progressed further and will launch more online play support. After all, it needs fewer language options, so there could be a few months development between it and the PAL version. I'm sure the PAL version will get more online options later through an update, just as the JP version got online through an update on Christmas rather than at release day.
    Edited by 2 at 17/03/08 @ 14:36

  • Hughes. #54 4 years ago

    More ignorant cuntery from Campbell, GT had adjustable camber angles back in 1998. I thought he'd thoroughly researched all of this stuff back when he'd decided spod gamers playing Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy 7 were death-worthy scum who were going to destroy gaming? God forbid anyone like something the cut-price celebrity prick doesn't approve of.

    I see gaming is still going, so obviously there have been no more GT or FF games... no, it must be that the manufacturers managed to stave off the death of industry by cutting the prices of all games to £20, as I seem to remeber hearing was vital to the future of the industry.

    As for the Forza fans, I'm glad you've learned to accept methadone, but stop trying to win over those of us who enjoy the real thing, I get less annoyed by evangelical Christians than the self-deluding rationale of people deperate to prove they're having a better time than I am.

    That said, why the hell can Polyphony still not get online right? 3 years since they chickened out of putting it in GT4, and they were supposedly working on it since GT3 came out in 2001. Still, nice to see they finally managed to make one of these in between games that isn't a total rip-off.

  • ruttyboy #55 4 years ago

    If you can change configurations on the fly, does this mean that the fastest lap times will now not go to those who can tune the best, but instead those who can tune AND switch between settings while racing? Remove downforce for straight, full downforce for corner, remove downforce for straight, etc. etc. etc. :(

  • chris_ace #56 4 years ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • Garulon #57 4 years ago

    "More ignorant cuntery from Campbell, GT had adjustable camber angles back in 1998. I thought he'd thoroughly researched all of this stuff back when he'd decided spod gamers playing Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy 7 were death-worthy scum who were going to destroy gaming? "

    More than one button or takes longer than an hour to bomb through start-to-end==terrible spod game as far as Cambell is concerned. It's the reviewer's disease, that love of simplicity.

    Doesn't stop GT5 being marked directly at fanbois though. WTF does this give you that Forza didn't last year? Apart from upscaled 1080?

  • optimusprym8 #58 4 years ago

    Bungie (or rather M$) did pull that stunt, it was called the Halo 3 Beta, that you had to buy a full priced game to get access to. And betas have end dates, at least GT5:p will last forever...

  • monkie_king #59 4 years ago

    Shame there's no weather, it adds enormously to PGR4 when you can race a track in 6 or 7 different conditions. GT's physics certainly ought to be up to simulating aquaplaning across standing water or 4-wheel drifts on snow or ice. In fact, there were wet versions of R5 and R11 before, weren't there?

  • miiiguel #60 4 years ago

    "Bungie (or rather M$) did pull that stunt, it was called the Halo 3 Beta, that you had to buy a full priced game to get access to"

    A game that had a place among the best in last years list. In my case, for example, never used the code, but sure did enjoy Crackdown.

  • monkie_king #61 4 years ago

    Yeah, Crackdown is better than 95% of the PS3's line-up.

    edit: hmm, tad incendiery, let me qualify that by saying that it's also better than 95% of the 360's line-up too.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 15:08

  • Kenshin001 #62 4 years ago

    miiiguel, stop trolling and fuck off. Seriously, you don't even own a PS3 yet are in every comments section about PS3 games.

  • miiiguel #63 4 years ago

    "miiiguel, stop trolling and fuck off. Seriously, you don't even own a PS3 yet are in every comments section about PS3 games."
    Is there any rule that states who can and can't coment in whatever ?, didn't know, mr. Guardian of the Temple (punk's not dead version).

  • seasidebaz #64 4 years ago

    actually, i thought crackdown was a bit pants. apart from in coop.

  • Garulon #65 4 years ago

    "Seriously, just no.

    *Spuffs all over Stu's face*."

    Oh don't get me wrong, I still love Stuart Campbell with a disturbing intensity, I just completely disagree with him on games these days.

  • Madlax #66 4 years ago

    GT5 prologue is already a success in europe, 1 million pre-orders according to a sony PR and still going. makes you wonder how much GT5 will sell.

    looks like the few trolls '/or marketeers' in this section are in the minority.

    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 15:35

  • ruttyboy #67 4 years ago

    Madlax, please see my comments in the EG news article on that particular misinformation.

  • monkie_king #68 4 years ago

    Well, PS3 owners are a bit hard up for games, aren't they? 1m preorders for a demo lol etc etc

  • Darren #69 4 years ago

    @Xiphos - The PS3 doesn't have enough memory to render GT5 Prologue at 1920x1080 so that is presumably the reason for the bizarre 1280x1080 rendering resolution it uses which also lacks any anti-aliasing (as that would use up even more memory). It would seem to me that the game is best played at 1280x720p which does have 2X AA I believe and letting your HDTV do the upscaling to 1080p. On my Sony HDTV, the Japanese GT5 Prologue demo definitely looked better at 720p than 1080p.

  • seasidebaz #70 4 years ago

    @darren:

    you only need 7.8mb of vram to render a single screen at 1080p with 32bit colour. that's why the 360 has 10meg vram.

    double-buffered it goes up to 15.6mb.

    so it's not a memory issue.

  • Madlax #71 4 years ago

    "It would seem to me that the game is best played at 1280x720p which does have 2X AA I believe and letting your HDTV do the upscaling to 1080p. On my Sony HDTV, the Japanese GT5 Prologue demo definitely looked better at 720p than 1080p."

    actually, its 4xAA according to some of the B3D guys.

  • Garulon #72 4 years ago

    "edit: But I get the feeling that those sort of opinions are wasted in here, where a full-blown argument about polygons, resolutions and pixels has broken out about a fucking driving game."

    Was this a driving game? I always assumed it was something PS3 owners used as "evidence" as to how powerful their machine is. I certainly never had any fun, ever, in any GT game I've played as the "driving model" may be supa-realistic but when actually racing they all seemed to handle like a particulalry recalctricant shopping trolley.

    @Darren "@Xiphos - The PS3 doesn't have enough memory to render GT5 Prologue at 1920x1080 so that is presumably the reason for the bizarre 1280x1080 rendering resolution"

    I'm not sure that's the case - is the PS3 horizontally scaling at scanout, like with it's fake 960x1080p?

  • Madlax #73 4 years ago

    "But I get the feeling that those sort of opinions are wasted in here, where a full-blown argument about polygons, resolutions and pixels has broken out about a fucking driving game. Does anybody here care about how much fun racing around the track is, or are you more bothered about pulling your mums away from watching Neighbours, pointing at the screen and saying "Look, mum! It's just like watching real cars race around on the telly!""

    What your looking for is Burnout paradise not a Driving simulator like Gran turismo. remember to get the PS3 version.

    "And if 1080P is being used to sell the shitty-looking (in my opinion) GT5 and the same shit that Sony and Polyphony always do with this kind of thing, after this amount of time, they just lost a buyer. "

    "I'm not sure that's the case - is the PS3 horizontally scaling at scanout, like with it's fake 960x1080p?"

    you 2 seem too obsessed with resolutions, and base your entire verdict of a game on it.

    now....can you both tell me what was Halo 3 native resolution ? and what was Halo 3 framerate ? and did the game manage to maintain that framerate ? and more importantly what was Eurogamer,s final score with all these factors taken into account ?

    and finally...what did you think of Halo 3 taking these factors into consideration ? ;)






  • Darren #74 4 years ago

    @Garulon - I was only taking an educated guess but I'd imagine that having two 1920x1080 framebuffers (one being displayed, one being drawn) would be quite demanding on the PS3's 256 MB of graphical memory, especially as detailed textures also have to be stored in there too. That's why the number of "true" 1920x1080 rendered games is fairly small on the PS3 and Xbox 360 but they tend to be graphically simple games like Virtua Tennis 3, NBA Street Homecourt and FIFA Street 3 for example not complex games like GT5 Prologue. That's why owning a 1080p HDTV for games is a waste of time in this generation IMO, it's only worth buying one if you plan on watching Sky HD or Blu-ray movies.

  • Anthony_UK #75 4 years ago

    All the tech speak is going over my head :-(

    The cars in Forza2 are shiny, the cars in GT are even more shiny........thats all we need to know!

    One thing I will say, if the handling is the same as GT-HD, as good as it was, I have to say that Forza did feel alot better in my opinion gameplay wise!

    Besides, if you can't put 'YOU ARE IN 2ND' on the back of your rear bumper, there really is no point!!!!

  • squeakyg #76 4 years ago

    I never thought I'd see the day -- a racing game review where they use REAL GAMEPLAY SCREENSHOTS!

    Not artistically-captured press shots that don't show you a damn thing about how they game will look on your screen when playing it. But real screenshots!

    I'm amazed!

    And yet... I don't have a PS3 and wouldn't buy this boring soulless tedium even if I did.

  • Madlax #77 4 years ago

    Haha...Darren, why did you delete your 2nd post about Halo 3 ? did you feel guilty touching something considered by many fanatics a Taboo ? ;)

    Disappointing, but not surprising.

  • Machetazo #78 4 years ago

    I'm enthusiastic about GT5 proper. I'm more interested now in GRID/Midnight Club, to entertain the thought of paying for a GT5 preview.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 17:48

  • Les #79 4 years ago

    "That's why owning a 1080p HDTV for games is a waste of time in this generation IMO, it's only worth buying one if you plan on watching Sky HD or Blu-ray movies."

    It also comes in rather handy when navigating the PSN store... ;)

  • Darren #80 4 years ago

    @Madlax - I deleted it because I felt it was off-topic, that's all, but I stand by everything I wrote.... good game, shite graphics. ;)

  • Kryon #81 4 years ago

    So, Forza's still the best eh... Plol S3.

  • anamenos #82 4 years ago

    FORZA 2 ALL THE WAY

  • levis #83 4 years ago

    My ignore list is getting bigger by the day!

  • sharpfish #84 4 years ago

    i'm looking forward to this, but I won't hide the fact I wish PGR4 was available on the PS3 too (or something very similar) it's just a very 'fun' game to play and look at unlike GT which looks amazing but is as always a tad clinical.

    Who said I was a ps3 fanboy? nah I love racing games on all systems but I now only have a ps3... could do with some PS3 competition to GT though a bit more arcadey but not as crap as stuff like juiced 2 etc


    as for 'soul' I believe FORZA 2 also LACKS it just as much as GT, I played it loads on the 360 but it never excited me beyond it's 'car nerd' possibilities. PGR was much better viscerally.

    Maybe they should drop the 60fps and make it look/feel as good as PGR4@30fps because that still felt slick and fast, but simheads want the 60fps and less detail (and jaggies/bland scenery that was part of Forza2 moreso than GT5p)
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/08 @ 18:01

  • ColdShoulder #85 4 years ago

    This will be as dull as all the other GTs. "Oh but look how pretty it is" and "look how much has been simulated".

    So much time and effort spent on one game and it's the same as the last one.

    B.O.R.I.N.G.

  • seasidebaz #86 4 years ago

    @darren

    with regards to previous statement about ps3 framebuffer:

    you only need 7.8mb of vram to render a single screen at 1080p with 32bit colour. that's why the 360 has 10meg vram.

    double-buffered it goes up to 15.6mb.

    there is more than enough vram to store everything in.

  • DAN.E.B #87 4 years ago

    i think the best handling game ever was toca on the ps2
    i bought a steering wheel for it and never touched a joypad for racing again!
    (apart from mario kart)
    its expensive buying all these damn wheels for every machine thou
    will have to buy another one when the full GT5 comes out!
    i wont touch it without one!

  • themorganator #88 4 years ago

    er, whats up with the multiplayer? Ok, I get its not a full game but how (in 2008 don't forget) is this not sorted yet on PS3? I'm hoping the full version is going to be good enough to tempt me into getting a PS3 but a glorified demo isn't the way to go IMO.

  • Falbala #89 4 years ago

    This looks awful, what's going on? I'm glad I don't like racing games that much.

  • secombe #90 4 years ago

    So, to conclude...

    - AI is apparently still no better
    - Game still feels empty, lifeless and, well, dull
    - Not a great deal of cars or tracks
    - Still no kind of damage system of any sort whatsoever

    On the plus side we have pretty graphics, and we (as in gamers) will no doubt lap it up...and then wonder why so many poor games get released...and mock the Wii.

  • UncleLou #91 4 years ago

    Funny, I'd say the Wii is the best indicator that graphics and people who buy games based on graphics are not responsible for poor games.

  • Dizzy #92 4 years ago

    What happened to the graphics????

  • Escape #93 4 years ago

    I'd like to think that if SCEE invited Scawen Roberts to port Live for Speed over to PS3, it'd steal a good number of gamers from this half-assed effort.

    It desperately needs a realistic physics engine. In the current build you can't even perform steering-neutral doughnuts.

  • doragor #94 4 years ago

    @ mkreku

    are you kidding me? have you ever played a multiplayer game of Halo 3? have you sir?.. ever floated a plasma grenade perfectly on to a passing Warthog (the flag carrier in the passenger side perhaps) with crossed fingers... the perfect physics and lush colour palette laden explosives stroking your gaming fanny as the Warthog is blown to Kingdom Come over a cliff's edge, the occupants twirling into the abyss, rueing the day they met you online...
    Halo 3 rocks. End Of.

  • Kostabi #95 4 years ago

    @Escape

    So so true. I'm absolutely amazed Sony or Microsoft haven't come along and traded a fat bag of money for Live For Speed's physics engine. It's one of the best in the business and a bedroom effort that puts these big teams working on Forza and GT to shame.

    I know they're all working towards different goals but LFS is playable(ish) with a gamepad, even just bunging it on PSN would be a result.

  • TheNinkyNonk #96 4 years ago

    Looks like bloody good value for money. Looking forward to next weekend.

  • TheNinkyNonk #97 4 years ago

    And the online, well, the older get the less of an issue online is, but it sounds OK to me. Easily pleased I guess.

  • T4RG4 #98 4 years ago

    If I did have a PS3 I would buy this for sure. However, I bought an Xbox360 (after always being Sony) due to being impressed with the online service and choice of games. The PS3 was lagging behind, and I think it still is to an extent. This of course can change.

    Secretly I had hoped that this would be a step up from Forza2 (which I still enjoy greatly if only for the multiplayer these days) but I dont see that here at all. Perhaps expecting it to be a big leap was my foolishness rearing its head ;) Maybe the full game will have a lot more to entice me (I dont just mean more of everything it has currently), I dont know.

    Personally I think its mental that Polyphony take so long to get their games out. You can be sure they will have had dev kits long before most other devs and yet they still havent given us PS3 GT. Sony releasing a GT demo bundle is a sad state too.

    Forza2 is great, its handling is an impressive blend of pick up and play/realism (with all aides off its great fun learning to control powerful cars). It did take me a little while to get to grips with it after playing all the GT titles, but I have to say I like it so much more than any of the previous racing games I've played (including on PC too). I dont like PGR4, too Arcadey for me.

    Forza2 can look quite bland and also has no soul! But it doesnt matter when you are playing and having fun.

  • ilmaestro #99 4 years ago

    "Drift Trial is what kept us picking away at Gran Turismo HD Concept for so long, throwing the back out around Eiger Nordwand and watching videos of scarily dedicated Japanese gamers doing the same thing more effectively on YouTube and trying to copy them."

    Why did you not just use the videos you could access in the game of the top runs?

  • myke6699 #100 4 years ago

    I was just at Gametrailer and watched the video comparing Forza 2 and GT:HD. Forza pales in comparison to the GT. It's a sad thing when something that look so cartooney can garner a 9/10. Burnout Paradise looks about 10 times better while GT about a 100.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/08 @ 05:28

  • Yaz #101 4 years ago

    "It's a sad thing when something that look so cartooney can garner a 9/10."

    Gee, maybe some people value areas other than graphics for a racer. But I guess for some people, graphics will always mean *everything* for games, with all other aspects being secondary. ;)

    Just the same, there are areas graphically where Forza is better and areas where GT is better.

  • seasidebaz #102 4 years ago

    @escape:

    you can do steering neutral doughnuts. perhaps you were just too scared to turn off all assists and put the simulation tyres on the car. and use a rwd car.

    @doragor:

    yes, i used to do that. the warthog doesn't blow up like that anymore. perhaps you were thinking of halo2?

    halo3 was a bit pants. but then again, i suppose it's just not everyone's cup of tea. i don't really enjoy generic alien shooter number 194032.
    @yaz: forza2 never blew me away graphically. gt5 does.

  • Yaz #103 4 years ago

    "@yaz: forza2 never blew me away graphically. gt5 does."

    And seasidebaz, *neither* game blows me away graphically, but I can see the good and not so good within the visuals of each, and as I've said, it's not just about graphics.

  • myke6699 #104 4 years ago

    for both games, you're basically driving around a track but if the track looks atrocious (ie. forza 2) it takes one of the most important component of a driving simulator, realism and for that a great graphic is essential. At one point (prior to purchasing my PS3), I did consider Xbox 360 mainly because Forza 2 is tenfold better that GT4 graphically but after playing GT:HD, I decided otherwise. Forza is not a bad game but at the end of the day, it's a not GT. There's a reason why for example Top Gear would associate itself with GT as oppose to Forza 2. And then there's the name.

  • mr_boogedy #105 4 years ago

    So... This is all very entertaining reading...

    What I want to know is: How does it play? Is there a good sense of speed and does it feel like you're in control of a car? Also -seeing as the Gran Turismo series was always a showcase for the graphical capabilities of the various playstations- are the graphics as impressive or more impressive than the current best graphics on the PS3. Has anyone (apart from the reviewers) played the PAL version, or are we still waxing lyrical?

    I think it's hilarious that anyone is comparing a full game to what is effectively a 'large demo'. Forza 2 was a great game -but it wasn't perfect. I expect great things from GT5, though I'm sure it won't be perfect either. As for PGR? It's a different game -it's not in direct competition.

  • doragor #106 4 years ago

    @ seasidebaz

    No, I'm thinking of Halo 3. Yesterday I witnessed a Warthog being stuck by a grenade and then blown about 40 or 50 feet directly up into the air while on fire. I can upload the clip to my file share if you like.
    I can also upload a clip of me sticking a Warthog and it being blown over a cliff.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/08 @ 09:55

  • seasidebaz #107 4 years ago

    @doragor:

    i didn't know that was still possible :) i know that with halo2 you used to be able to stack grenades, just never saw it done on halo3 :D

    back on topic: i agree with zerolight, hdconcept was a lot like a shiny version of gt4. but the jp prologue demo was definately a lot weightier, and having played hdconcept to death found that the subtle handling changed caused me to rethink how i was driving in the prologue demo (found myself spinning out a lot after misjudging a corner...)

  • T4RG4 #108 4 years ago

    "for both games, you're basically driving around a track but if the track looks atrocious (ie. forza 2) it takes one of the most important component of a driving simulator, realism and for that a great graphic is essential. At one point (prior to purchasing my PS3), I did consider Xbox 360 mainly because Forza 2 is tenfold better that GT4 graphically but after playing GT:HD, I decided otherwise. Forza is not a bad game but at the end of the day, it's a not GT. There's a reason why for example Top Gear would associate itself with GT as oppose to Forza 2. And then there's the name."

    I don't think track detail is as important to a good racing game as you make out. I'd also disagree that Forza2's take on the graphical look is poor. It's very clean, but nothing to shout about - But I say again and again, it makes no difference to me when racing around and having a lot of fun!

    "Forza is not a bad game but at the end of the day, it's a not GT" - You say it as though GT is somehow vastly superior to Forza. I don't see that at all. I think you are perhaps playing on GT's great history somewhat.

    "There's a reason why for example Top Gear would associate itself with GT as oppose to Forza 2" - Maybe the fact Sony asked for the association? Bit of a gimmick if you ask me. The best thing about it is use of the test track :D

    At the end of the day I am primarily interested in the physics (read feeling of driving) above and beyond anything. Next, for me at least, comes online play, cars and tracks then graphics and extras :) I thought the paint feature in Forza was something I'd never use but as been pointed out here it's great fun writing stuff on your car such as 'You suck' and on the other side of the car 'So does your dad'. Yes, childish I know.

    For GT not to have damage (not a massive thing but Polyphonys excuse of not being allowed is bull) is a downer for me. Poor online implementation (should be better in the future) and supposedly weaker sensation of driving combine to leave me feeling cold. I've loved the GT series for a long, long time but for a while have felt it's not going anywhere in particular.

    The Forza team came out of nowhere and made two great racing titles. Polyphony have had a big head start and yet they still havent released a full game for a system they have untold development support for. Hmm.

  • seasidebaz #109 4 years ago

    damage is apparently allowed now. just no car flipping. and if adding damage means the game gets put back another year or two, i can live without it. i try not to crash in a racing game anyway :D

  • JDub #110 4 years ago

    Staggered release = Probably because it's taking an eon to produce this much 1080p content...

    On the PS blog, there's some screenshots of the 2007 F1 Ferrari also included in the game if you earn 2M credits!

  • dsmx #111 4 years ago

    2M credits is a bargin for a F1 car, in GT4 you couldn't get a le-mans car for that.

  • RandolphScott #112 4 years ago

    @zerolight

    You seem to have spectacularly failed to understand my post.

  • Kryon #113 4 years ago

    I don't actually get all the fuss over GT5s visuals, does <a href=http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles/ /a/9/4/7/8/9/gt2.jpg.jpg>this</a> really look that good? Maybe I'm missing the 'untapped' power or something but this looks no better than PGR4 or even Forza imo...

  • darc #114 4 years ago

    All this talk about "soul" in a racing sim LOL. Excepting Mario Cart and all those sideways-baseball-caps "street" racers, it's pretty much a moot point. So if you're looking for "soul" Mario Cart is shipping for Wii shortly. :) I'd be happy w/ Forza 2 with weather effects, a wider variety of track and weather conditions, more convincing force feedback (the press seems to think its OK, but I can hardly tell its on half the time) and perhaps anti-aliasing. Forza's still got my favorite car handling, and damage modeling is a must in a proper sim.

    As for "soul" and graphics, I'm not especially impressed with either (GT5 or Forza 2). I mean, Forza2 is perfectly adequate, but on first play I was surprised at how similar it looks to Forza 1.

  • T4RG4 #115 4 years ago

    Isn't it Mario Kart? ;)

    Weather for racing games - absolutely - I wish Forza had this feature. If GT had it I might buy a PS3 :p I'm really hoping Forza3 takes a step forward and includes this, it'll really mix the gameplay up for I personally dont need a load of tracks but I do like some variation in a race upon a circuit a lot of people are likely to know.



  • mossychops001 #116 4 years ago

    Cool!
    On preorder, but i think i will down load it too.

  • Les #117 4 years ago

    "(not a massive thing but Polyphonys excuse of not being allowed is bull)"

    Last thing I heard was that it will be included eventually (but might be outdated by now) though not in Prologue. One of Polyphony's excuses for not implementing it earlier was that the damage modelling would be so complex (due to their high quality standards).

  • T4RG4 #118 4 years ago

    Hopefully it will go in the full version for sure then. High quality standards? Hmm. I think they have high standards but I wouldn't have thought this would be a serious issue around damage.

  • darc #119 4 years ago

    "Weather for racing games - absolutely - I wish Forza had this feature. If GT had it I might buy a PS3 :p"

    If you don't already have it, at least give PGR4 a rental. I have never liked the series, but as soon as I set up a custom race and put a very fast car in the rain, PGR4 had me grinning ear to ear. Totally different feel, but worth checking out.

  • T4RG4 #120 4 years ago

    Tried the demo - Really didn't like it (and never got on with PGR in the past). I can see why its got a good following, but it just isn't my cup of tea :(

  • Darren #121 4 years ago

    @seasidebaz - "@darren

    with regards to previous statement about ps3 framebuffer:

    you only need 7.8mb of vram to render a single screen at 1080p with 32bit colour. that's why the 360 has 10meg vram.

    double-buffered it goes up to 15.6mb.

    there is more than enough vram to store everything in."

    Including high-definition textures?

    But if memory isn't an issue then why isn't GT5 Prologue rendered at 1920x1080? I suppose it's possible that the limitation is imposed by the 60 fps framerate, i.e. the PS3 isn't powerful enough to render a game with GT5 Prologue's highly detailed visuals at a 1920x1080 resolution 60 times a second, only at 1280x1080...

  • Les #122 4 years ago

    "High quality standards? Hmm. I think they have high standards but I wouldn't have thought this would be a serious issue around damage."

    Apparently Polyphony doesn’t want to create a simple damage model with ‘canned’ damage indicators. The damage simulation would need to be as accurate as the car models, physics model, etc. There was not enough power in the PS2 to accurately do this was their excuse with GT4. You’d expect that PS3 will have enough power, unless they spent most of its power on improving the graphics and physics model…

  • T4RG4 #123 4 years ago

    "Apparently Polyphony doesn’t want to create a simple damage model with ‘canned’ damage indicators. The damage simulation would need to be as accurate as the car models, physics model, etc. There was not enough power in the PS2 to accurately do this was their excuse with GT4. You’d expect that PS3 will have enough power, unless they spent most of its power on improving the graphics and physics model…"

    At the end of the day its sensation of realism that matters, not uber authenticity. If I believe the car I'm driving to accurately portray the effects of having a damaged/overheated/whatever left-front brake disc then they have succeeded in 'simulating' reality from a gamers point of view. This is easy enough to do for the machine, just a bit more time consuming for the development team.

    I dont know how in-depth Forza simulates these things, but the car behaves in a way I believe to be realistic and it, when you have damage on, adds greatly to the realism.

  • Les #124 4 years ago

    "At the end of the day its sensation of realism that matters, not uber authenticity."

    Agreed, but we're not Japanese... ;)

  • T4RG4 #125 4 years ago

    How do you know? ;)

  • JDub #126 4 years ago

    @ Darren: What's this about 1280x1080?

    AFAIK, GT5P visuals are at 1080p - That is 1920x1080 at 60fps.

    Is there another definition of 1080p?

  • Orbstah #127 4 years ago

    I wish Eurogamer would compare this game to GT4 Prolouge and not the full gt4, A Lot of people do that and it annoys me. This was never designed to be a huge product more of a sampler, just as GT4 Prolouge was.

    The origional GT4 prolouge had 64 cars and 46 tests for you to complete and was designed as a taster.

    The reason they do things like this is so they can listen to feedback by users and know were to improve things when the full product turns up. I mean just look at how perfect GT4 turned out . They got a lot of feedack from GT4 prlouge.

    And this game is available for 17.99 on amazon. ridiculous money.
    And Me and my pals have been playing the Online mode for ages and have lots of fun with it. never had problems with lag or anything.

    Eurogamer upset me some times with reviews like this. Often it seems they only spend 10 mins playing the game and review it from there.

  • T4RG4 #128 4 years ago

    "The reason they do things like this is so they can listen to feedback by users and know were to improve things when the full product turns up. I mean just look at how perfect GT4 turned out"

    Says who? If anything I believe Polyphony to be completely hidden from their fans compared to some other studios. I think these 'tasters' come out because they take ages to make a game and Sony pressures them into releasing something (because lets face it, GT is a massive title for PS3 and would create a surge in sales).

  • darc #129 4 years ago

    "Tried the demo - Really didn't like it (and never got on with PGR in the past). I can see why its got a good following, but it just isn't my cup of tea :("

    Can't believe I'm championing PGR4 now LOL, I always hated the PGR series myself. But I will say this - give it a rental and set up some custom races for yourself. You might be surprised. I *still* haven't been able to get into the career mode because it starts off so very dull, so I can imagine where the demo might not have grabbed you right off either.

    "I dont know how in-depth Forza simulates these things, but the car behaves in a way I believe to be realistic and it, when you have damage on, adds greatly to the realism."

    But then there is this: PGR4 has no damage modeling, which is a serious negative IMO.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/08 @ 17:44

  • Yaz #130 4 years ago

    JDub wrote: "AFAIK, GT5P visuals are at 1080p - That is 1920x1080 at 60fps."

    [link url=http://thoughthead.com/89
    ]    http://thoughthead.com/89
    [/link]

    :)

  • seasidebaz #131 4 years ago

    @darren:

    yeah, the actual framebuffers only need 15.6mb for double buffering at 1080p. the actual storage of textures, models etc goes is also in vram, or in the case of the 360, system ram. the actual drawing requires very little memory though.

    it's probably the actual rendering technique that's the performance hit, as to keep up 60fps would require a stupidly optimised rendering engine, and until developers work out the intricacies of parallel programming it just isn't going to happen.

    good attempt though, polyphony, i won't be throwing out my 720p set for a while yet though ;-)

    edit: and @yaz: great link! i didn't know cod4 ran at such a low res!

    and what's with the 360 and having games running at reduced aa? the xbox gives you 4xmsaa with no performance hit whatsoever as it's handled in the vram!
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/08 @ 21:14

  • dsmx #132 4 years ago

    The VRAM on the xbox 360 doesn't give you free 4xmsaa, the 8MB is too small to fit that level in it, you can get 2x at a push even then though you take a slight performance hit. There is no such thing as free anything in computing, you always have to make a sacrifice.

  • seasidebaz #133 4 years ago

    @dsmx:

    from m$'s own documentation:

    4×AA multisampling is provided for free by the Xbox 360, so using 4×AA multisampling is recommended.

    and it's 10mb not 8

  • dsmx #134 4 years ago

    My mistake but it still doesn't change that it isn't enough.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #135 4 years ago

    Sony, when you announce the capabilities of PS4, please don't bullshit, this is getting embarrassing now.

  • AtomicBanana #136 4 years ago

    ""At the end of the day its sensation of realism that matters, not uber authenticity."

    Agreed, but we're not Japanese... ;)"

    Well the sim experince isn't as authentic as LFS for example, so why not just give in and add some damage already.

  • xandoodle #137 4 years ago

    Woah woah woah gt4 was far from perfect.

    A completely broken 2player mode kills that notion...

  • Darren #138 4 years ago

    @seasidebaz - That's what Microsoft's documentation might say but most Xbox 360 games use 2X AA, a good example is the Saints Row demo which did use 4X AA@ 720p but the developers dropped it down to 2X AA ingame and 4X AA on the character creation screen to improve the framerate for the final release. If 4X AA really was free then why did Halo 3 not use any at all? Answer: it isn't free at all, 4X AA uses memory and that's why Bungie chose not to add AA to Halo 3 and restrict the resolution to 1152x640 so they could do some fancy lighting effects instead. If AA really was free then they could have still used 4X AA as well but they didn't because they couldn't. ;)

  • SentientNr6 #139 4 years ago

    ironically you could consider it free if it was fixed, as in not an option.
    Currently devs can choose to use this memory for other things.
    So the not being free is actually a good thing.

  • sharpfish #140 4 years ago

    Skip to * if you are not interested in an off topic(ish) rant!

    I think this AA talk (on both PS3 and 360) merely highlights the fact that both consoles are in fact underpowered for their intentions. They usher in 'hi def' resolutions but barely meet the spec needed to provide amazing graphics AT those resolutions at a good frame rate.

    Does anyone else agree that this generation has felt the most fucked up in console history? it's transitionary, we certainly do appreciate the HD res and HDTVs bringing consoles inline with the clarity we'd been used to seeing on a PC/Monitor but so much seems left out while chasing resolutions in many games (there are some very nice exceptions of course on both systems) but in general there is far too many compromises made in the name of Hi Def that weren't there before on SD. SD looks like crap up close whatever, but the aliasing problem wasn't so obvious as we had to sit further and CRTs blurred it all up.

    I think it was definitely time to go HD on consoles but I am convinced that both consoles were too eager to be released (or put in Blu Ray) to really concentrate on a fully capable solution. So now developers are already working on GPU hardware that isn't even a half as powerful as what it should be to cope admirably with 1080p (or even 720p)... unless you look at simplistic/2D games with lo poly counts that still look good.. anything that is aiming to be more detailed than previous gen games is falling foul of not always hitting the target res (hence this god awful under res/scale up BS that's in far too many games esp on the PS3)

    The Conflict: Denied Ops demo on PS3 was disgusting, the blur and aliasing and general look of it was as scruffy as hell. PC Shooters have looked crisper than that for the last ten years - just WTF IS GOING ON HERE DEVS??? (not sure if the 360 version also looks like shit but either way it's just fucking awful what this generation is doing to games)... and that's from someone who has for the first time in a generation bought TWO consoles (360 and PS3). I was never underwhelmed by PS1 (playing wipeout and GT!) nor did I feel the gamecube wasn't up to scratch.. but both 360 and PS3 have tearing, aliasing and far too many bugs that are now 'acceptable' on consoles when they once weren't... and they say PC is dying? There will always be a place for PC while the users (with some brains) can work around/upgrade around the things that personally bug them. It seems on both top consoles this gen we are stuck with aliasing and tearing, maybe next gen when the HD dust has settled they can actually put top class hardware in them instead of holding back the industry with cheap ass solutions.

    Seriously, Wii, 360, PS3 all have flaws that seem so much more detrimental this gen than ever before and that's not even starting on the disasterous reliability of 360, the mismatched hardware in the PS3 and the 'console for non gamers with shovelware and minigames' that is Wii.


    ....Having said all this...

    *
    ...I can't wait for GT5p which should turn up in the post in the morning ;P

  • quantumsheep #141 4 years ago

    I've just put in the disc and had to install the game to the HDD - it's still going - taken about 10 minutes :(

  • martynmac #142 4 years ago

    Aye, nearly 20 mins to install, plus a game update from PSN straight afterwards. I left the update downloading for 30 mins and then it failed... it has since failed another 3 times. The PSNetwork must be seriously overloaded at the moment.

    I managed to have a few races without installing the update and there seems to be some framerate and screen-tear problems. Everything runs smooth until you go round a bend when there are a few AI opponents in front of you and the PS3 starts to struggle. Otherwise this is typically Gran Turismo, there is nothing new here at all (I know it's a cut-down game). Even the AI cars still look like they are pre-scripted, but I could be wrong here, like I said I have only played a few races. Overall, for me, first impressions are that this is not 8/10 material but I am very early into the game.

  • Moz #143 4 years ago

    But then there is this: PGR4 has no damage modeling, which is a serious negative IMO.

    As comment by polephony (humm can't spell! - can't be bothered to go look) and i'm sure Bizare Creation at some point part of the reason for the no damage to cars is licences they have with car manufacturers some of them just don't want people seeing their cars all smashed up. As mentioned in another article this week Poly are in talks with the manufacturers to try and get this clause removed.

  • Yaz #144 4 years ago

    "the reason for the no damage to cars is licences they have with car manufacturers some of them just don't want people seeing their cars all smashed up".

    I believe PGR4 has cosmetic damage, just like the previous PGR games. Windows will break, paintwork will be scratched, mirrors will break off etc, and the Forza series goes much further with it's damage modelling, therefore it's not the issue Polyphony make it out to be. Damage _may_ have been a problem with manufacturers when they first started the GT series back on the original Playstation, however that was many years ago. Since then, we have seen car damage implemented in games with no objections from the car manufacturers at all.

    The fact is, the PS2 simply didn't have the power and memory to implement a decent damage model in a game like GT, since to do so would have meant sacrifices in other areas of the game, and for Polyphony those sacrifices were just not worth making. Now with the PS3, they have the technology to implement a decent damage model in GT, however Polyphony are playing catch up with others in this respect, therefore it's taking time for them to add damage to the series.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/08 @ 14:14

  • Yaz #145 4 years ago

    "I dunno, Toca 3 on the PS2 had convincing enough damage modelling, and fatnastic graphiics also, oh and a fantastic online mode."

    Correct, but it wasn't running at 60fps, it was only 30fps, and Polyphony have always maintained that 60fps is a must for the series. Thererfore to include damage modelling in GT, they would have had to sacrifice the quality/performance of one or more of the following: framerate, graphics, physics, AI (cough), car models, lighting/effects etc. This is what Polyphony didn't want to do on the PS2.

  • speedsix #146 4 years ago

    Sony are the only people who could pull off selling an incomplete game to people and then selling it to them all over again when it's finally done. They release a demo to gain feedback and get people interested like most do, but think, well lets throw them a bit more content and milk some money out of the fools. They won't mind paying for the same content twice. We can't call it a demo because people wouldn't pay for that, we shall call it a Prologue.

    Seriously people, get a grip. If MS did this they'd be torn to shreds for milking the gamer.

    As already pointed out, the lack of damage excuses are all bogus.

  • PearOfAnguish #147 4 years ago

    FlatOut is better.

  • Les #148 4 years ago

    "Now with the PS3, they have the technology to implement a decent damage model in GT, however Polyphony are playing catch up with others in this respect, therefore it's taking time for them to add damage to the series."

    That and of course because of this industry's obsessive focus on superficial graphics most of PS3's power will be used for creating HD graphics so that fanboys can compare screenshots across platforms and claim the superiority of the one they love most, rather than using it for something useful to gameplay like AI, physics and damage modeling...

  • Yaz #149 4 years ago

    ^^^ Possibly Les, but there are exceptions. Forza's devs actually left out some graphical effects so that the game can have great AI, physics, customization and damage modelling at 60fps, something which isn't really appreciated by those gamers criticising Forza 2 for having less than photo realistic graphics. :|

  • GI-Joel #150 4 years ago

    GT5 will have more time spent in developing it forza is 1 year old now or near as..... no point comparing.. the graphics are sweet in gt5. game play is good. However game is only a demo..

  • Les #151 4 years ago

    "something which isn't really appreciated by those gamers criticising Forza 2 for having less than photo realistic graphics. :|"

    Exactly. That doesn't bode well for the future of hardcore (or superficial) gaming...

  • TRUTH #152 4 years ago

    Is it me or is GT getting very boring - I use to enjoy it, but just been playing GTP and it's not as impressive as I hoped. AI needs working, very stale and boring. Graphics are fine, but again nothing to make your eyes pop out after seeing: PGR4, Motor Storm, Burnout Paradise etc. I think after playing GT series on PS2, and other racers from Forza, Dirt to Motor Storm to Burnout; GT just seems boring and stale. Look forward to the Tocca Racing from Codemasters - this is more exciting for me

  • rommy667 #153 4 years ago

    GT4 is just so yawn yawn zzzzzzzzz

  • db3 #154 4 years ago

    It's certainly very pretty but in no stretch of the imagination the 'real driving simulator'....and the online issues are a joke.

    Get your head out of the sand Polyphony and check this out...

    http://ww w.n4g.com/xbox360/news-131030.aspx

  • SpyroViper #155 4 years ago

    Overall GT5, for what it is (which is NOT a full game) is definatly one of the Best games this year (quality wise/gameplay wise). It's use of Shading, Lighting and Shadows is down right amazing. Compare the effects to Forza 2 (which uses some textured in shadows, fake shading and un true lighting aka bloom) and you will see an amazing difference. The driving physics are again stunning, put the physics on professional without any aids and it IS definatly a simulator, The Nissan GTR understeers and slides around bends just like it should..

    Cannot wait for the Damage Model, definatly don't want a half a**ed version, if you have ever seen a real life 40mph crash.. Apparently *cough, forza 2* has not.. Trust Polyphony, amazing developers.