Forza Motorsport 3 Review

By Oli Welsh Published 13 October, 2009

All will drive.

Version tested: Xbox 360

Is it naïve to think you can judge the character of a racing game from its choice of cover star? Probably. Yet the Project Gotham Racing series' love affair with Ferrari was perfectly suited to its flamboyant character; Race Driver GRID's hulking Dodge Viper in race trim captured its brutish, high-octane track-day drama. And Forza Motorsport 3 couldn't be more aptly summarised by the car that adorns the box (and kicks the racing campaign off in the obligatory high-speed teaser, before you're relegated to buzzing around in superminis): the Audi R8.

It's not, frankly, the prettiest of supercars. It's not the most soulful or thrilling, or, as our American friends would say, the most storied. It is, however, a paragon of ruthless and meticulous engineering excellence, a perfectly balanced, impossibly capable, surprisingly easy-to-handle all-rounder that doesn't need a hardcore enthusiast at the wheel to simply drive around the competition. That's Forza Motorsport 3 all over.

Audi has clearly been more than a commercial influence on the third in Microsoft's exemplary series. The classy, clinical understatement of the presentation, with its blinding white menus and note of cultured authority from narrator Peter Egan, is pure vorsprung durch technik. Developer Turn 10 has admitted that it's heading in the opposite direction to the loud Americanism of Codemasters' Racing Studio, seeking to give its game a high-end, European feel. It's a success, even if it has you reaching for the contrast controls before you're able to see some of the light-grey-on-white type - so quiet in its refinement that you can't actually read it.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 1

Aussies will be overjoyed at the inclusion of bruising Holden V8s, the big galoots.

Turn 10 has also made much of its effort to improve the accessibility of the console car simulator genre - the expansive hybrid of glossy catalogue, on-track simulation, customisation and long-form RPG progression defined by format rival Gran Turismo. The game's easy setting now offers extreme assistance: Forza can be set up to do all the braking and even some of the steering for you, so that even a small child can enjoy a shallow blast around its otherwise rather technical and challenging tracks. That will certainly open the game up to a few new players, although as with previous Forzas, its handling is so neutered on easier settings that it's difficult to wring much involvement or enjoyment from it.

But Turn 10's accessibility drive really hits home elsewhere, and in ways that can easily be appreciated by players at all levels. One is its lift of GRID's rewind button, a spot of feature-plagiarism that would seem cheeky if every other racing game hadn't copied Turn 10's brilliant implementation of the racing line guide in the first Forza. Rewind allows you to unspool crashes and missed corners at any point in single-player, with no limit or penalty (except a mark on your time-trial leaderboard listing).

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 2

Tuning setups can now be saved to slots and swapped at will, as well as bought from players who actually know what they're doing.

Some might think it dumbs down simulation racing by stripping out risk, but they're free not to use it; and for everyone else, rewind strips out frustration and actually encourages a fuller appreciation of the game's depth, since it frees you up to try the more rewarding and fun higher difficulty settings without stymieing progress in the campaign, or having to submit to endless restarts to get good results. This doesn't just apply to driver assists and damage, but particularly to the AI difficulty too, which is something of a pushover on Normal but a tense challenge on Hard that, without rewind, most would forgo in favour of an easy life.

Turn 10 has also revolutionised car tuning and customisation with its "quick upgrade" option, which will work out a set of upgrades for your car, optimised for a given class or even specific event, at the push of a button. For those with no affinity for mechanics or stat-crunching - or simply no time and patience for tooling around in menus - it effortlessly opens up a side of the game that would otherwise remain a closed book, and permits them to get further with fewer cars, which are better to drive, for less money. Seasoned modders can simply ignore it and find the familiar wealth of detail and choice to get lost in.

Turn 10's next avenue of attack on the genre's conventions is structure - always a problem in these games, bloated as they are with content, and unbalanced by upgrade options. Gran Turismos have become increasingly messy tangles of progression, while previous Forzas were simply a vast and featureless grid of samey events, and it was easy to lose your way in both. Forza 3 changes this with Season Play, which intersperses compulsory World Championship races with offered choices from three lesser events based on what car you're driving, or what cars and tracks you haven't tried yet.

It seems limited at first, until you realise that it means you can simply select a car you feel like driving and have the game suggest something appropriate, and tweak its performance via quick upgrade if necessary. This cleverly turns the emphasis around onto the game's stars, the cars themselves - but as with absolutely everything in Forza 3, it's no limitation, only an option. The event grid is still there if you would rather do it the old-fashioned way and pick the fight before the weapon. Neither is a perfect structure, but between them they offer the best solution to date for piling through these unwieldy games.

The final way in which Turn 10 has made Forza more approachable is the most subtle, but the most profound. It's the handling. Forza 2's handling model offered tremendous depth and satisfying heft, but on the surface, it was dry, a tad uninviting. With Forza 3, Turn 10 has managed something that not even GT creators Polyphony or simulation experts SimBin has done to date; loosen the handling, lighten it, add a flick of tail-happy PGR flair, a deliciously dynamic and supple relationship between car and road, and all without sacrificing one iota of sim credibility. In simple terms, it's kept the depth, but ladled on raw feel. It's a masterpiece.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 3

If we can't have Spa, we'll take Suzuka, the second-best race track in the world.

That's superbly illustrated by the addition of drifting to the game. The implementation is basic: there are no single-player drift events, and there is no attempt to replicate complex real-world drift scoring - it's a simple time-based score ticker ripped straight from PGR. Nevertheless, drifting these cars - exploiting and manipulating the infinitely variable amount of grip - is simply so much fun in itself that it proves a huge draw as a score-attack multiplayer mode or a solo indulgence.

As for multiplayer, the word hardly covers what must be the most comprehensive online feature-set of any console game in history (bolstered, rivals take note, by an excellent, smooth-running, offline two-player split-screen mode). Match-making and match-finding is well-handled by the simple interface, and race rules can be set in ridiculous detail - but actual racing is only one facet of online interaction in Forza 3.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 4

The new, fictional Montserrat track is an excellent blend of circuit technique and road-racing thrills and spills.

The series has been a quiet leader in community features and user-generated content ever since it first appeared, and Forza 3 takes huge strides forward in this area. The paint editor - incredibly flexible and only mildly unfriendly - and superb photo mode are as they ever were, as is the car auction house. But the Storefront is new. There you can browse replays, photos, full paint-jobs, vinyl groups (player-made logos and pictures to stamp on your car) and even tuning setups; you can rate them, and advertise your own.

It's extremely well put together and will be a huge boost to an already thriving community, providing them with a handsome showcase, and the average player with a great way to get the best from those parts of the game he doesn't want to delve into personally. Only the rather limited and poorly-integrated video editor fails to live up to the promises Turn 10 has made.

The Storefront is also supported by the brilliant scoreboards, which rank tuners, photographers and paint artists alongside track heroes according to their Storefront ratings. Scoreboards are where the sharp end of Forza competition will take place, and once again not a trick has been missed in the breadth and depth of their implementation, although the metrics used to calculate overall rankings are somewhat opaque. (It's also a shame that the terrific Time Trial challenges - hot laps with set combinations of car and track - are hidden away here, where offline players can't even reach them, rather than promoted as a main gameplay mode.)

Whatever feature you think you might want in a racing game, Forza Motorsport 3 has it - and if you don't want it, it doesn't matter, because you can ignore it in favour of something else you do want. We laughed at the overuse of the word "definitive" at the game's E3 debut this year, but it's absolutely deserved - this incredibly rounded piece of software has wiped the smirk off our face and replaced it with a warm, if humbled, grin.

But it is not perfect. Damage modelling is shallow and unconvincing. No-one has managed to put a predictable, bump-free difficulty curve into one of these sprawling sims, and Forza 3, despite a sterling effort, can't quite manage to smooth it out. Furthermore, despite the inclusion of drag racing and point-to-point tracks - including the magisterial Japanese mountain roads of Fujimi Kaido - and a few inventive race categories, the main career mode is still too short on variety relative to its extreme length.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 5

The RenaultSport Twingo, unlikely hero of the F Class, and yes I am calling out you Yaris fans.

More seriously perhaps, the boasts of lavish content - 400 cars and 100 tracks - ring a little hollow when you realise how much of it has been recycled from Forza 2. You will very often experience a strong sense of deja vu as you take the same car round the same track that you did two years ago. And while the circuit selection is hard to fault - fleshing out all the old favourites with some exciting and interesting new additions, both fictional and real - the car catalogue covers all the expected bases without ever stirring the imagination, the passion, or the amused smiles that Gran Turismo's eccentric, encyclopaedic collections always have. It's copybook car love.

Finally, and most controversially, there is the look of the game. You would expect Forza 3 to boast staggeringly faithful and detailed car models, and it does, no doubt. But despite that, it's graphically sterile and bland, with few effects, poor environmental detail, and a relatively basic in-car view. In a side-by-side comparison with GRID or the thrilling showboating of Need for Speed: SHIFT, Forza 3 will leave you cold.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 6

Drag racing is probably more interesting if you have a wheel with a clutch pedal.

There is, however, the best possible reason for that - and the longer you spend with the game, the less you care. Turn 10 has sacrificed flash for a faultless 60 frames a second, and understood that in simulation, what you feel is far more important than what you see. It has diverted all of the 360's resources to giving you the smoothest, most believable, most physically rewarding drive you've ever had. Who cares what the scenery or the tyre-smoke look like when your eyes are laser-focused on the next apex, when your fingers can feel the road surface? It was the right decision.

Forza Motorsport 3 is only you, the car, the rubber and the road, in a blissful, never-bettered harmony - until the race ends, you pull back, and you get the bigger picture. Then you realise that that experience was just the centre of a huge, welcoming, flexible and shockingly complete package, a racing game that genuinely has a corner somewhere in it for everyone who loves cars, and a world-beating online platform to share that love with thousands of others. For 2009 at least, consider the racing game defined.

9 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (192) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • the_dudefather #1 2 years ago

    no one is allowed to mention Gran Turismo, starting.....NOW

  • KTroopA #2 2 years ago

    what no turn out of ten

    /sorry

    will buy when is cheap :D

  • CromeYellow #3 2 years ago

    Gran who-rismo?

  • TheBoyChris #4 2 years ago

    No surprise really - they've really hit their stride :)

  • cianchristopher #5 2 years ago

    Sweet, looking forward to the 7/10 Gran Turismo 5 review coming March 2010 ;-)

  • Murbal #6 2 years ago

    Curse you packed release schedule.

  • duckncover #7 2 years ago

    Having played the demo, I can't believe this has been given such a high score.

  • Charlie789 #8 2 years ago

    Nice, will definitely buy this - time to dust off my wireless steering wheel!!

  • miiiguel #9 2 years ago

    I like most game genres though sim driving ones never apealed me, I pre-order this though. Glad to read it's good.

  • Rodchenko #10 2 years ago

    Demo didn't do it for me personally, but I guess it only unravels when you play the whole package. Congrats on an overall excellent meta-score, though. Will be tough one to beat.

  • LOLLERS #11 2 years ago

    Turn 10 has sacrificed flash for a faultless 60 frames a second, and understood that in simulation, what you feel is far more important than what you see. It has diverted all of the 360's resources to giving you the smoothest, most believable, most physically rewarding drive you've ever had. Who cares what the scenery or the tyre-smoke look like when your eyes are laser-focused on the next apex, when your fingers can feel the road surface? It was the right decision


    Good summing up.

    Edit: I can see GT scoring worse if they haven't put Significant effort into the career progression. Prologue was awfully dull.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 15:26

  • Retroid #12 2 years ago

    I'm far more interested in this than I was in Forza 2.

    Which is ironic, really, as I got Forza 2 (with Viva Pinata) with a cheapy 360 pad ages ago, I just haven't played it much. I'm wondering if I should skip and pick this up.

  • Moonprince #13 2 years ago

    Who cares what the scenery or the tyre-smoke look like when your eyes are laser-focused on the next apex, when your fingers can feel the road surface?

    - Yeah I would care. Whilst the racing portion is important, that other part you mention above is just as important to me :/

  • cianchristopher #14 2 years ago

    Can I copy-and-paste the entire review into my comment, then just add underneath "Nice Review"? ;-)

  • ZuluHero #15 2 years ago

    It’s weird how certain franchises automatically get good scores, even if the games are as dull as dishwater.

    I know I’m in the minority but I’d rather play new stuff like Batman:AA, or the 8/10 Brutal Legend, than play the same football game or car racing game that I played 20 years ago. I’ve never understood how people can buy the same game year after year and not notice. I really need to think up a money making scheme like that…

    /Prepares for neg rep onslaught from the droves of car/football game fans.

  • monkeywithnoeyes #16 2 years ago

    "it's graphically sterile and bland, with few effects, poor environmental detail, and a relatively basic in-car view. In a side-by-side comparison with GRID or the thrilling showboating of Need for Speed: SHIFT, Forza 3 will leave you cold."
    This i dont agree with (and thats not the fanboy in me talking).. going by the demo of both Forza and shift i wouldnt call Forza bland.. infact i've heard many complaints against the visuals being too colourful..allowing a more "cartoon" look to everything than GT5's realistic shine. You cant have it both ways surely? I agree that that the track detail in Grid is so far unmatched - it looking much better than the dirty textures that litter shift. However the car models in forza are in a class of their own..and will remain the most realistic car models no doubt untill GT5 hits. The in car view is basic though.. that i agree with, but is welcomed none the less.

    To call this games looks sterile and bland though? no.. clean, colourful, sharp spring more to mind on what i've played and footage i've seen.. so unless the full game diverts so drastically i'm gonna have to call you up on that.

  • Quint2020 #17 2 years ago

    Wow.... what a review.

    *giggles like School girl in anticipation*

  • Vroom #18 2 years ago

    Suits you sir. Insta buy now.

  • skillian #19 2 years ago

    I know I’m in the minority but I’d rather play new stuff like Batman:AA, or the 8/10 Brutal Legend, than play the same football game or car racing game that I played 20 years ago. I’ve never understood how people can buy the same game year after year and not notice. I really need to think up a money making scheme like that…

    I do know what you mean, but people have been playing Monopoly for 70 years. If a game (video or otherwise) is fun, there's nothing wrong with continuing to play it, especially when there are regular improvements.

    You might as well ask me why I've been eating Bounties for 20 years when there are new and exciting products like sea-salted caramel bars. I eat Bounties because I enjoy them.

  • finexi #20 2 years ago

    LOLLERS, It says it all mate...

    It's not perfect indeed (does such thing exist?) but it is without a doubt a true racing sim with plenty of fantastic features that every hardcore racer (and casual racer) dreamed of... I can't wait to get my hands on the wheel...
    Edited by 2 at 13/10/09 @ 17:49

  • patchbox360 #21 2 years ago

    it's graphically sterile and bland, with few effects, poor environmental detail, and a relatively basic in-car view

    haha

  • Hypercube #22 2 years ago

    Oh, I'm so getting this! PGR4 has been my only driving game on the 360 so far, so this will be a welcome addition to my teeny car-based game collection!

  • uglygamer #23 2 years ago

    Nice review and from the demo you can tell they put a lot love into the game. The handling is fantastic and the sense of speed for a simulation is almost perfect. Not too fast like Shift and not slow like Gran Turismo. The graphics are not really bland I preferred them over Shift and Grid, I have to say though Gran turismo probably has the edge in that department. Everything so far about the game oozes class and I think a 9 seems like the right score

  • uglygamer #24 2 years ago

    Anyway good review. Even though it was a 3 page review I wanted more. :)

  • vegard #25 2 years ago

    "Developer Turn 10 has admitted that it's heading in the opposite direction to the loud Americanism of Codemasters' Racing Studio, seeking to give its game a high-end, European feel."

    almost makes it an instant-buy for me. also, after trying demos of this and shift, i'd say i prefer the look of forza!

  • uglygamer #26 2 years ago

    @designerheadache

    The Forza demo is brilliant fun. Played the demo more than I did the full Dirt 2 game.

  • bad09 #27 2 years ago

    I'll be honest, as a Forza fan, the demo was a little disappointing for me so can understand why some didn't like it. I'm not sure why exactly it just looks and feels a little...off. Saying that though, for some reason I never feel "comfortable" in a Forza game until I get a good chunk of races under my belt anyway so I know it will be OK. Can't wait to get my teeth into the finished game!

    / hugs 360 wheel

  • whoslotte #28 2 years ago

    'Add to Basket'

    My only worry is that this release date clashes with the impending postal strike ! Damn you postie ! 8)

  • LOLLERS #29 2 years ago

    Yeah GT5 was a demo, but it still had some kind of progression in it, so if that's an example of the final game i'm not expecting much different. After getting through the 'Suzuki Cappucino' phase of the demo, the point where I finally lost patience was when I only had a couple of events left I think, and I needed to buy a Ferrari for one of them, for which I needed a lot of money. To do this I had two options - 1) do some really difficult circuit races to earn money, or 2) grind some incredibly easy oval races to earn the same amount of money. If they make a demo with a broken structure like this i'm not holding out much hope for the full game, although to be fair they've had enough time to rewrite it from scratch about 10 times now.

    I tried to like it, I really did, I even played it with the G25 for ages. It just wasn't fun. The AI didn't help either, as well as the fact you start every race with a massive handicap, that's not racing. Maybe it's different online, but the PS3 online isn't as good as Live anyway...
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 15:50

  • Flying_Pig #30 2 years ago

    This is the kind of game which makes we want a 360...

  • ColdShoulder #31 2 years ago

    The demo was boring, I like fun included in my games. I'll carry on playing burnout paradise and PGR4 and spend my money on Brutal Legend thanks.

  • bad09 #32 2 years ago

    "Prologue was a demo/beta. Unless you haven't noticed."

    No I didn't 'cos they charged 20 bloody quid for it..... ;)

  • Eighthours #33 2 years ago

    Good review, Oli.

    It's quite simply a fantastic game in almost every way. Well done, Turn 10.

  • schmung #34 2 years ago

    Release day can't come soon enough, I've been playing the demo plenty and just getting to grips with the refined handlinig. I'm really not fussed that much about the graphics, Grid sure was prettier, but that was 30fps and had pretty basic handling, so it's a case for horses for courses until whenever we get the next generation.

    Sad that a lot of people will be let down by postie come next friday as their pre-orders languish in Royal Mail depots, but I luckily live near the town centre and thus can get to a games shoppe and pick it up in person.

  • VandelayIndustries #35 2 years ago

    I was late to the party with Forza 2 and this looks to be a vast improvement. Can't wait :D

  • uttershambles #36 2 years ago

    Good review - neatly summarised what I largely thought about the demo and had read across other reviews.

    Having said that, nobody I have read has picked up on the slight handling tweak, if one can call it that. I had however read complaints that drifting was a touch too predictable to be realistic... good trade off, say I - a nod to the fun factor.

    Can't get too excited about the visuals either way. Obviously not a pig and runs 60fps reliably, the rest is so much meh if you are racing from inside the car.

  • Vergis69 #37 2 years ago

    Sounds like it will keep me goin till GT5 so happy days!

  • CroKiller #38 2 years ago

    Great review and as I can see - great game. In this moment the best driving simulation on the market. F*ck yeah.

  • JetSetWilly #39 2 years ago

    Nice. The rewind option has addressed the thing that always kept me away from racing games, so colour me interested.

  • alasdairm #40 2 years ago

    Good to see there is a split screen option - 2 players only (?), but is there a system link option ?

  • Retroid #41 2 years ago

    evilfoxhound: "Prologue was a demo/beta. Unless you haven't noticed."

    Most demos / betas don't have a £25 RRP.

  • asphaltcowboy #42 2 years ago

    Well, I already caved yesterday and pre-ordered the LE! Good to see I'm not going to be cancelling it! Every little bit of FM3 news I've read, every little bit of footage I've seen has confirmed to me that they've sorted through all the issues that bothered me about FM2 (which I enjoyed a lot, but found a little impenetrable). Cannot wait to start painting again!

    Great review by the way.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 16:26

  • jambo74 #43 2 years ago

    @skillian
    Eating Bounties for 20 years?
    Foiza Bussport for you m'lad.

  • Jay-ITFC #44 2 years ago

    @cianchristopher: "Sweet, looking forward to the 7/10 Gran Turismo 5 review coming March 2010 ;-)"

    March 2010? Like Kylie you should be so lucky!

  • uttershambles #45 2 years ago

    Well, with discounts etc I paid just over 30 squid for FM3. So if you consider the GT5 £20 a down payment, anything over a tenner for the full game means working a bit harder for those positive reviews, surely?

    Oooonly joking

    \ leaps

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #46 2 years ago

    I'm not sure why exactly it just looks and feels a little...off

    Actually, I always found the first couple of Forzas to be a little skittish - akin to the sort of feel of GTR or GP Legends on PC, games I had little time for. But the Forza 3 demo felt much more comfortable to me, and I felt more in control, akin to the feeling you get from PGR or, actually, Gran Turismo.

    So I like it.

  • Pasco #47 2 years ago

    "if every other racing game hadn't copied Turn 10's brilliant implementation of the racing line guide in the first Forza"

    What was different in that implementation compared to F355 Ferrari Challange on Dreamcast. I bet this was done earlier as well

  • MeBrains #48 2 years ago

    hmm... could be something to throw GT off the thone then...

    my gut feeling says GT5 will score lower. An 8, possibly even a 7.

  • Retroid #49 2 years ago

    evilfoxhound: "oh, so are you claiming that it's a full game?

    I don't get it. Everyone has been calling it a demo for years, but now it's suddenly classed as a full game?"

    You called GT5:p a demo / beta, I pointed out that it had an RRP of £25. Which isn't a full-price but it's at least as expensive as re-releases.

    It didn't have enough content to be a 'full' thing, and while I own it (bought for £10 pre-owned) I think the Prologue concept is a fecking rip-off and a pretty shameless mid-dev-cycle cash injection.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 16:17

  • DDevil #50 2 years ago

    Can't wait for this game. Loved Forza 2.

    Now, the Forza 2 demo was terrible. Nearly didn't buy it because of that.

  • uttershambles #51 2 years ago

    Look on the bright side, without the development tax.... sorry, GT5:p .. the full game might not have been here on time

    Oh, hang on

  • Calgon #52 2 years ago

    I dont know what games Oli is comparing Forza3 to when he says "poor environmental detail" because thats pretty much the opposite of what I can see, I mean maybe I need to see more of SHIFT on the environment detail but as for Grid and GT5(the most recent footage of it), Forza looks to have both beat soundly... draw distance, texure detail and geometry.

    Other than that I'd say it sounds like Turn10 have done themselves proud, I was kind of hoping they were going for the best graphics but it seems like they have balanced their time(visuals vs content) and priorities(framerate, drawdistance, car models, environment detail.... you can't argue that its well balanced on the whole) very well in the 2 years it took them. Does anyone know if Forza3 was built on a new engine or not, I seem to remember them saying it was but I may have that confused.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 16:25

  • uglygamer #53 2 years ago

    The only thing thing that I really want which are not in the gameand may even have gotten a 10 are

    16 player online rather than 8.
    Dynamic weather like PGR 4. it rreally added a new dimension to a superb racer
    Night mode. Doing a 24 Hour LeMans track all in daylight maybe a little strange.

  • Xerx3s #54 2 years ago

    "Just waiting for GT5's 10 now.

    Oh wait its Eurogamer. "

    So you are basically saying that all sites - except EG - are biased and will give GT5 a 10/10 by default. In your stupidity you have actually given EG a great compliment.

  • davisorle #55 2 years ago

    Gorgeous game, feels great ( if you turn the assists off that is ) and will buy it even if im not a racing fan, just like i did with Grid back in the days. Cause its ace on what its meant to do. Turn 10 have done a great job. By far the best racing game of the year. DLC and work on the next pls :)

  • JensonJet #56 2 years ago

    Calgon
    I believe it is based on a new engine. Either way I'd like to see more developers take the 60fps approach. I'd drop graphical detail for a smooth fast framerate any day of the week. If Forza and Modern Warfare, both very nice looking games can run at 60, exactly what excuse does pretty much the rest of the industry have? Lack of skill? Laziness? Anyway, back to Forza... absolutely can't wait. It's like Christmas is arriving early.

  • Tetsuo_Shima #57 2 years ago

    I was planning on buying this one since I enjoyed Forza 2 a lot, but the fact they've hardly done anything to improve the woeful career structure, or the rubbish car-class system, doesn't encourage me one bit.

  • Xerx3s #58 2 years ago

    "Prologue was a demo/beta. Unless you haven't noticed. "

    So you're saying that people paid for a beta/demo?

  • Spekingur #59 2 years ago

    @evilfoxhound: Since when is it normal to pay money to play a demo?

  • cianchristopher #60 2 years ago

    The development cycle of GT5 is a joke (three Forza games have come out since the last full GT game, and crucially, all three have scored a 9/10).

    Comparing GT to Forza is like comparing Medal of Honour to Call of Duty (one has been dead since 2001/2002, the other is going from strength to strength!)...

  • Collymilad #61 2 years ago

    ""Just waiting for GT5's 10 now.

    Oh wait its Eurogamer. "

    So you are basically saying that all sites - except EG - are biased and will give GT5 a 10/10 by default. In your stupidity you have actually given EG a great compliment."

    Didn't you know? Any other opinion than "PS3 stuff is the best" is biased. Doesn't matter if you actually think otherwise for good reason.

  • Miths #62 2 years ago

    Damn how I wish the G25 could be used on the 360 - or that I could find it acceptable to make room for a Fanatec wheel in my budget, but there are just too many other game related things (well, all the upcoming games themselves really :)) to spend money on at the moment.

    I just dragged my G25 and Wheelstand Pro out of retirement a few weeks ago (playing Shift, DiRT2 and GT5P on my PS3), but though I really liked the Forza 3 demo, there's just no way in hell I'm going back to playing racing games with a pad this time around.

  • Calgon #63 2 years ago

    JensonJet well if its a new engine then they might have a Forza4 planned or maybe something else(PGR5?) on the same engine, it would be a waste otherwise, now they have it they can improve upon it.

  • GaidenZero #64 2 years ago

    I personally dont get what the fuss is about - I'm a fan of many racing games but Forza to me is just bland and lacking in any kind of excitement. I'm not saying I'm right - it's just my opinion. The thrills and spills of DiRT 2 make that game a lot more "fun" which is the key for me.

    Forza may well be more realistic, but that doesn't make it fun, which is what games are ultimately about. Each to their own though; it's obviously a good game and I hope you guys like it :)

  • Xerx3s #65 2 years ago

    "my gut feeling says GT5 will score lower. An 8, possibly even a 7. "

    Based on vids and screenshots? Let's just wait and see...

  • andywilkie35 #66 2 years ago

    Very much looking forward to this

  • Petulant_Radish #67 2 years ago

    “I wonder what the simulated wreckage would look like if Forza 3 and GT5 had a head on collision.”

    Surely there wouldn’t be any wreckage, the two assailants would bounce off each other in a slight mess of cosmetically damaged parts and scratched paintwork, before merrily carrying on their way with a little cosmetic smoke coming out of the back.

    I’m getting Forza, I will like it. I also like blueberry muffins.

  • chronom4n #68 2 years ago

    So how many cars are actually new to forza3? and how many have been recycled? One thing on the handling side of things, forza is the only game where i think the use of the controller is so well tuned, it doesn't make you miss using a wheel all that much. Still I will be getting rid of my copy of Forza2 because it seems that this version, from what I have seen is a significant improvement over Forza2 well at least graphically.

  • MeBrains #69 2 years ago

    Xerx3s: based on gut feeling... screens and vids look great, but something makes me unsure. The lengthy development process? The mediocre PSP incarnation? The at this moment weak damage model. I do not know. I "hope" I am incorrect. PD deserve a good game only for them having pioneered this type of racing.

  • cianchristopher #70 2 years ago

    What would happen if Forza 2 and Forza 3 had sex, while GT5 watched and jerked off?

  • Camorrista #71 2 years ago

    But the new Storefront is new.
    has wiped the smirk of our face

    Did you even bother to proofread this?

  • LOLLERS #72 2 years ago

    cianchristopher - Depends if they wait for GT5 to 'Release'
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 17:01

  • uttershambles #73 2 years ago

    Camorrista:

    You bored?

  • uglygamer #74 2 years ago

    @evilfoxhound.

    Is your gamertag related to Metal Gear solid a PS3 game? And you call the rest of us fanboys.

    I genuinely like all three consoles. Loosen up and you may actually enjoy some of the games offered on the XBOX 360 and the Wii. trust me theres not much difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360 when it comes to games.
    Edited by 2 at 13/10/09 @ 17:18

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #75 2 years ago

    I also like blueberry muffins.

    BULLSHIT. You are clearly a blinkered fruit-fanboy. How can some random confluence of nature hope to function as a bakery ingredient compared to chocolate chips - which are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED and produced to be a tasty muffin additive.

    Plus blueberries are a bright primary colour, they're like something out of a kid's cartoon LOL. Everyone knows all the best ingredients come in shades of REALISTIC brown.

    EDIT: just look at your name - RADISH. Why don't you go out and play on your allotment, ROFL
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 17:20

  • messiahtj #76 2 years ago

    Not as good as Uncharted 2 then, but hey, its better than MGS 4 and and...much better than Risen.....and and better than..... Brutal Legend....... and and and better than Halo and and and and GT 5 will score 8 or 7 =D

  • uttershambles #77 2 years ago

    Blueberries are not the only fruit

    Or the only Berry, for that matter
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 17:27

  • Anufea #78 2 years ago

    @svd_grasshopper: The xbox could go for 45fps but your screen cannot - at least not without the image tearing heavily.

    The problem is that even modern tellys only support a very limited number of refresh rates corresponding to the video signal that is fed to them. There is just no standard for 1080p@45Hz for example.

  • paulf #79 2 years ago

    the main problem i had for forza 2 was that the races were either too easy or too hard. It was also too simple to soup up your car so it was overpowered for a race, therefore theres not much challenge or sense of accomplishment, does fm3 fix this?

  • Petulant_Radish #80 2 years ago

    Mentalist, your provocative assault upon my tastes will not diminish my lust for blueberries, but I respect your desires and needs for confectionary gluttony, and as such offer raspberry and white chocolate cookies, the multiplatform baked good.

    Though you are calling yourself a mentalist so I’m not sure why I am listening to you, now what was it Alan Partridge said…

  • uttershambles #81 2 years ago

    Monkey Tennis. Prologue

  • kingnothing12 #82 2 years ago

    I dunno why but after playing 2 and the demo of 3 and i the only one that would prefer a more polished project gotham?

  • Caimbeul #83 2 years ago

    V8's...does that mean it has bathurst? please let it have bathurst, please let it have bathurst!,

  • superdelphinus #84 2 years ago

    the most glowing 9/10 i've ever seen

  • Darren #85 2 years ago

    Nice review. Kind of surprised that Oli Welsh belittled the graphics after the Digital Foundry demo appraisal but, to be honest, I do agree with him, at least from what I've experienced of the demo and seen of other gameplay videos. It looks fine but nothing special and I agree that Turn 10 have done the absolutely right thing by focusing on the framerate and simulation aspects, which is something Polyphony Digital should also be doing with GT5 as GT5 Prologue has nasty bouts of slowdown and tearing, all of which undermine the otherwise beauitful visuals.

    Whatever, I'm not buying Forza 3 for the graphics anyway, as long as it looks good enough and it's enjoyable to play I'll be perfectly happy. Graphics are overrated anyway. ;)

  • paulf #86 2 years ago

    no bathurst at least at release

    [link url=http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/3 17070/v8_supercars_feature_forza_3
    ]http://ww w.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/31...[/link]

    could be dlc in the future though

  • StooMonster #87 2 years ago

    What's the best steering wheel to use with Forza 3?

  • uglygamer #88 2 years ago

    Ive only used the Official wheel with the demo and it works really well.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 18:01

  • bing #89 2 years ago

    @Evilfoxhound

    'I actually came to this thread to complain that Forza 3 should have got a 10 for being the most complete console racing game of this generation and maybe of all-time so far. '

    So why didn't you say that rather than talking mince about Prologue being a demo/beta.

    I take it you've played Forza 3 already seeing as you know it is the most complete racing game of all time. Admit it, you were trolling as usual.

  • LOLLERS #90 2 years ago

    uneducated troll? I actually wrote a massive paragraph explaining what I thought of prologue but you were obviously distracted by a stupid is a demo/isn't a demo issue to come up with any kind of counter-argument. You can just say you agree with me if you like, no-one will mind.

  • Retroid #91 2 years ago

    A keyboard warrior, yesterday.

    edit: damned headache
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 20:20

  • Tehren #92 2 years ago

    Nice work Oli.

    It's refreshing to read a racing game review where it's obvious that the author actually knows something about cars. The R8 / Forza analogy rang clear and true, unlike the usual hamfisted bollocks game journos usually spout.

    So, +1 from this car & games nerd.

  • uglygamer #93 2 years ago



    A < a href="keyboard">keyboard">http://xkcd.com/386/"&g t;keyboard warrior, yesterday.

    GLOL.

    Remember people Forza is pronounced Fort-zhah. Its italian and it means Go. So translated its GO Motorsport 3

  • LOLLERS #94 2 years ago

    oh go-on, I agreed with you! It is a demo! I always thought a demo was meant to be representative of the final game, it had progression and money in it, therefore I took it as an example of what the final game might be like. Is that wrong?

    Edit, actually what is your point? Do you like GT5 or not?
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 18:25

  • Scimarad #95 2 years ago

    "no one is allowed to mention Gran Turismo, starting.....NOW"

    Really nice idea. Utterly utterly failed, though!

    Nice review, have had this one pre-order since the demo.

  • Alkeno #96 2 years ago

    So finally we have the Forza 3 review. Great graphics (60fps and good looking), brilliant handling and a good bunch of good features either improved from previous games or stolen from others... as good as it can get, then! A good day for sim-racers for sure. Only one complaint... did Oli forget about how the game roars? because some reviewers say the game sound fantastic (different sounds on different surfaces being impressive).

    svd_grasshopper, I guess nobody locks framerate at 45fps because... it would be... an estrange revolutionary idea? It seems like a good balance between quality and smoothness... My just invented theory: Maybe 45fps over 30fps barely makes the game any smoother (difficult to perceive) and it does make graphics look worse (easier to perceive). After all, only the hardcore branch of some genres bother to do 60fps (some racers, some platformers, some fps, fighting games).

    Anufea I think you are confusing framerate with refresh rate... there is nothing stopping a 45fps output to display correctly on any device (25fps PAL, 29,97fps NTSC, 60/75/100/120Hz flat panel). If movies with their terrifying 24fps can be correctly displayed on any device by using simple tricks (such as pulldowns, etc.), anything can :-)

  • finexi #97 2 years ago

    "My only worry is that this release date clashes with the impending postal strike ! Damn you postie !"

    Does that compromise my game pre-order?
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 18:51

  • WinterSnowblind #98 2 years ago

    @finexi
    It might. Although if you have the LCE ordered, it'll probably come through Parcel Force, and won't be affected.

  • Nephirion #99 2 years ago

    £46.85 wtf!!!!!!!!

  • bad09 #100 2 years ago

    Hey Uglygamer thanks for the info I did not know that! Absolute Radio is running competitions and have been calling it "Fort-zhah". I did wonder why. Doh! :)

  • finexi #101 2 years ago

    WinterSnowblind, I'm portuguese so... is Parcel Force "another" Royal Mail? I've ordered my LCE at GAME!

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #102 2 years ago

    Mentalist, your provocative assault upon my tastes will not diminish my lust for blueberries, but I respect your desires and needs for confectionary gluttony, and as such offer raspberry and white chocolate cookies, the multiplatform baked good.

    Your cross-platform confectionary has undesirable, American-style presentation :)

  • SAH1977 #103 2 years ago

    Turn 10 seem to have perfected the driving sim as we know it, but I'm expecting PD to produce something groundbreaking with GT5.

    They've had enough time AND now have real competition.
    Edited by 2 at 13/10/09 @ 19:32

  • miiiguel #104 2 years ago

    @ Strange; RRod_something; kangarootooo:
    You're having a conversation with yourself... forget the system warz thing, that is trully worrying. No BS..., that shit is seriously scary.
    You did the same thing on the L4D thread.... :/
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 19:33

  • GamerG #105 2 years ago

    Why do Sony Fanboys insist on f'ing up every thread?

  • des #106 2 years ago

    zzzz...put some guns on cars,then i might consider it,same goes for Grand Borismo

  • Les #107 2 years ago

    There was a time when I enjoyed games like this. Then Burnout 3 came around (and my spare time steadily started to decline)...

  • Numbat #108 2 years ago

    Thanks for a good review. Will definitely get this. Really enjoyed the demo too, but also thought your warning that much content will be Forza 2 was timely. Looking forward to new tracks though, and the return of tracks from the original game.

    Great that after a drought of good racing games, so many are now coming out, and this will be a great contrast to Dirt 2.

  • mooseman721 #109 2 years ago

    Im sure I remember driving assist lines on Microsprose' F1GP, that must have been oooh, 1993 ish?

  • spatss #110 2 years ago

    9/10? Nice moneyhat review.

  • MeBrains #111 2 years ago

    GamerG: Why do Sony Fanboys insist on f'ing up every thread?

    my impression is exactly the opposite. 360 supporters (or these disillusioned by Sony for whatever reason and over the years) are a very frequent encounter in threads only about PS3, ever since the initial announcement of the current console. It is part of why I sometimes am seen as a PS3 "fanboy", because I try to level that out. The negativity against the battery recall was disproportianate for example. The negative reaction against Sony's KZ2 2005 render as well.

    that said: it does seem to level out and I see unopiniated bias from both sides now... which is all good. It returns balance...

  • ChadSexington #112 2 years ago

    "loosen the handling, lighten it, add a flick of tail-happy PGR flair, a deliciously dynamic and supple relationship between car and road, and all without sacrificing one iota of sim credibility. In simple terms, it's kept the depth, but ladled on raw feel."

    WARNING! CONTRADICTION IN TERMS ALERT!

  • Retroid #113 2 years ago

    Fanboys are a massive pain in the arse on either side, there's really no excuse.

    Why those people feel they have to praise everything one side does and rubbish the "other" unreservedly is something I'll never understand.

    /Owns all the current-gen systems, has best choice

  • Scimarad #114 2 years ago

    It's pretty pathetic, TBH.

  • MeBrains #115 2 years ago

    retroid: exactly.

    /owns none of the current gen systems... ... except Wii. But that being current gen is debatable. I'll buy Sony eventually though. It has a few games I really look forwards to playing: LG, U, U2 and even LBA... all the others available, hower great they are, you have an alternative on the other console. methinks: LG, U and U2 will up the ante, while the other great games this gen are just great games - which I have been through already.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 20:40

  • Badassbab #116 2 years ago

    Guys complaining about the graphics remember this- FM3 (and FM2 for that matter) is the ONLY console racer with 360Hz update @60fps in HD resolution.

  • Arwin #117 2 years ago

    The comments about sacrificing flashy graphics fror 60fps would sound more believable if there had been 16 cars on track. But there are only 8 cars, which - god forbid - feels very last-gen, to be honest. No mention of the two disc install? Arcade users get less tracks and cars than HDD owners - no Nurburgring for the HDD-impaired. Also, are you really sure that the original Forza introduced the racing line? Really really sure? It's almost too funny. Mind you, not that it matters a great deal.

    Well, I'm a racing fan pur-sang and I'll definitely get Forza - I do quite like it's driving model, although unlike the reviewer, I disagree with it not having sacrificed realism by becoming easier. You can't spin out these cars, you can't even spin out on grass.

    Anyway, that's all I can tell based on the demo and other small details. I'll get the game and see where it goes from there. I got Live Gold again specifically for this game, but if the online isn't good enough ... ;)
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 21:04

  • captain-future #118 2 years ago

    yeah I've to agree it's a 9/10 and not a 10/10 because I played Shift and then the Forza 3 demo and I was bored at first... Forza 3 is much like other racing sims, a little on the sterile side. I prefer GRID personally, but Forza 3 has 60Hz which is just great.

    So I'll get Forza 3 as well.

  • Badassbab #119 2 years ago

    Can someone please enlighten me about the significance of having 16 cars on the tracks? Does Nascar, F1, WRC, BTCC etc all feature exactly 16 cars racing against each other?

  • ronuds #120 2 years ago

    @ Badassbab

    16 cars on the track means you can bump into each other more.

    I obviously haven't seen every Forza 3 track, but I can only imagine the carnage that would be left behind had they allowed 16 cars on the track in the demo.

  • GamerG #121 2 years ago

    @MeBrains

    you are talking out of your arse, PS3 game threads go relatively unscathed, 360 threads however get derailed unbelivably fast.

    And WTF has a battery recall got to do with anything? i'm talking about threads on EG not some news item from 3 years ago!
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 22:06

  • ronuds #122 2 years ago

    Yeah, just look at the UC2 review compared to this one for a good indication of how those usually go. It's sad that the Sony faithful feel so threatened that another console has good games.

    This one actually isn't so bad, though! :D

  • GamerG #123 2 years ago

    @ronuds

    exactly right, it must be something about the ps3 that hyponotises you go on to internet forums and shit them up? or perhaps it knocks 10 years of your brain age and sends you back to pre puberty?
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 22:07

  • Scimarad #124 2 years ago

    You've obviously been reading some different threads to us, then. It's generally the PS3 on the receiving end most of the time...though of course it's possibly deserved on some occasions.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 22:15

  • GamerG #125 2 years ago

    @ Scimarad

    no you are dillusional, take the Uncharted 2 review thread for example the only people shitting that up are PS3 Fanboys trying to take the subject onto the 360 as @ronuds has pointed out they are obsessed by the 360 it seems

  • Scimarad #126 2 years ago

    That is such a load a crap...unless I already have all those idiots on ignore. Something I'm not ruling out though that doesn't explain all those twats spouting shite in the opposite direction that YOU obviously have on ignore.

  • duttyri #127 2 years ago

    Should have got a five, so gt5 can get a 10 and be twice as good as it, because it will be.

  • MeBrains #128 2 years ago

    @gamerg: you are talking out of your arse, PS3 game threads go relatively unscathed, 360 threads however get derailed unbelivably fast.

    And WTF has a battery recall got to do with anything? i'm talking about threads on EG not some news item from 3 years ago!

    well g, it must be the threads I miss then. do point me out to posts in 360-only news where PS3 "fanboys" go haywire. as far as I know with the 360-oriented threads I am in, PS3 devotees are largely absent, while the same can not be said vv.

    Is there something negative here - from persons labelled by 360 fanboyz as PS3 fanboyz?
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/more-t...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/ms-inc...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/modern...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/micros...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/micros...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/halo-3...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/halo-3...

    In all of these threads the "Sony Defense Force" (as some apparently call them) is not really visible. All these threads are a genuine discussions between persons interested in the topic without offensiveness. Do you want me to look up PS3-oriented threads?!

    edit: the battery recall is when I first started noticing a huge internet group going against Sony. All the corporation did was acknowledge that batteries indeed were burning when used out of - but within margin - of specification. Sony recalled, it cost them dearly and they got flamed for it. MS released an ill-engineered product, they merely give warranty and they are respected - what up?!
    edit again: grammar not correct.
    Edited by 5 at 13/10/09 @ 23:50

  • aphexstwin #129 2 years ago

    good review tho something always strikes me as odd and thats people hammering on about realism. my car, driven at road speeds feels nothing like my real road car at real road speeds. and this isnt a jibe at forza or gt, its all of them, because no game can ever replicate the 'seat of your pants' feel you get from your own car, the g force and lean as you take a corner. why do reviewers, developers and ultimately us lot feel the need to do it? these games can never then be called realistic.

    i have played the demo now with the wheel and its ok, still lacking in bumps and stuff, going light through the wheel over the crests and heavy through the dips etc but far better than using the pad imo. gt has spoiled me tho with 900deg steering and im not buying another wheel. just wish the powers that be would let me use my dfgt on the 360!

    im also hoping the class system is reworked: muscle cars should not be in the same class as superminis/hot hatches. t10 really borked in f2 with that one imo: youre in a good room of d class pugs and golfs and someone always comes in with a sodding 454 ss and annihilates you on the straights....grrr

  • FladgeMangle #130 2 years ago

    If you believe half the responses to EG scores you'd think that 10 is indeed twice as much as 9.

    PS No it wont, don't spout unqualified trollish flamebait.

    edit: @ duttyri
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 22:47

  • Scimarad #131 2 years ago

    As far as I'm concerned this is a good review of a 360 game which I'm interested in buying and any other considerations (such as certain other racing games on certain other consoles that I'm also interested in but aren't coming out out for ages) *breath deeply* are totally irrelevant.

    Fanboys of all varieties can fuck the hell off as far as I'm concerned.

  • GamerG #132 2 years ago

    @mebrains

    "do point me out to posts in 360-only news where PS3 "fanboys" go haywire"

    Er this one?

    By the way none of your links work they just point to eg.net

    Perhaps as a PS3 owner you dont look at many 360 threads? Well if you did you would know they get shit on every time, its quite pathetic

    compare the ODST review and the uncharted review then get back to me
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/09 @ 22:50

  • 8bitMofo #133 2 years ago

    FOR SALE:

    Bugatti Veyron, 2 months old, No longer requires due to release of Forza 3.

  • TopKatt #134 2 years ago

    Nice review. Good to hear that Forza 3 plays as good as it looks. I hope that, if GT5 isn't on a par with this yet, that Polyphony Digital use the time before it's released to make sure it is by the time I get my hands on it. Mean time, I hope you xbox guys enjoy this one, sounds like a cracker.

  • thedaveeyres #135 2 years ago

    GTFO... never driven one of those... any good?

  • MeBrains #136 2 years ago

    gamerg: Er this one? - By the way none of your links work they just point to eg.net. - Perhaps as a PS3 owner you dont look at many 360 threads? Well if you did you would know they get shit on every time, its quite pathetic. - compare the ODST review and the uncharted review then get back to me

    first: thanks. the links were indeed incorrect. they should work now after many-an-edit. I got the impression some EG code behaves erratically indeed. Retroid, can you pls escalate?

    As for me looking at 360 threads. Yes I have, they are (now correctly) linked above and I think comments there are quite okay.

    As for the difference between ODST and U2. I do not immediately see any more bias in one over the other. Since you seem to be so sure, do point me out some blatant "fanboyism" apparent in the 360 one and void of PS3's... In the mean time, run through the threads I linked above...

    edit: btw. this thread - like you pointed out - might be the best example yet. Probably added to my feeling that things are evening out... ... although I doubt that.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 00:02

  • bing #137 2 years ago

    @Mebrains

    You do realise the irony in the fact that in your argument about threads being de-railed by the usual 360 vs PS3 nonsense you're actually doing the very same thing?

    So... 9/10, good score. As a gamer I like it when good games come out.

    *fixed spelling
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 00:13

  • Mr_Brown #138 2 years ago

    Talk about derailed. Seems to happen to just about every major exclusive for any platform. Cannot we just accept that each platform has a small number of mindlessly loyal fans and that most of these are idiots and ultimately end up hating the very thing they are supposed to love so much.

    Anyway, not surprised by the score, the game looks like a huge improvement on the first. I may get this when its reduced, there are just to many other games out at the moment.

  • Retroid #139 2 years ago

    MeBrains: "first: thanks. the links were indeed incorrect. they should work now after many-an-edit. I got the impression some EG code behaves erratically indeed. Retroid, can you pls escalate?"

    I'm just a Mod, not staff! :D

    But the links won't work unless they include HTTP:// otherwise the autolinker seems to presume they're parts of EG.net, that's the first thing I can think of. HTML link tags will work if you always include quotes around the URL too.

    /Isn't sure if that was what you were asking, but hopes it's helped someone anyway

    edit: Jesus, thinks~links, obviously! :D I needed my morning coffee more than I realised...
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 12:58

  • muttler #140 2 years ago

    Nice review. However... I dont like that the handling has been made more slidey and therefore unrealistic at all (that type of thing is great in PGR, but not in a sim like Forza) and find it troubling that the review and most of the comments actually seem to praise this. Also wtf is a rewind feature doing in a sim? I dont like that being in Forza at all. And again, I dont like that the review says, 'hardcore fans should just ignore it, but for casuals it makes the game more accessible'. Sod the casuals, what about the hardcore fanbase? The review says that if you use the rewind feature that it simply marks it next to your laptime. Well I hope that doesnt mean that the laptimes that have used rewind go on the same scoreboard as those that havent?!

    This is my problem: arcade style handling and features are great, my very favourite racing games (PGR, Rallisport C 2) are arcade style, but serious sims offer their own kind of challenge and enjoyment due to the realism. By trying to be all things to all people Turn 10 has shot itself in the foot imo. Why cant they just make a serious sim in the vein of Forza 2 or Simbin's Racepro and give us a variety of games to choose from that each excel at what they do?

    I'll finish by saying I wont like it if these features are in GT5 as well, or there wont be a flagship sim racer on either console as far as I'm concerned, just another two 'very good racing games'.

  • o_ci2007 #141 2 years ago

    @muttler
    You dont have to use the rewind function and you can turn off all the driver aids to get a "real" sim feel. Its all in the review if you even bothered to read it.

  • MeBrains #142 2 years ago

    Mr_Brown: yes, there is some irony indeed. maybe the difference being that this is some kind of meta-discussion about derailment instead of derailment itself... summin... :unsure:

    retroid: I copy / pasted the links from the address bar "http" was included. problem was that new line "< br >" turned into part of the link, so I guess it would not happen if you have the link followed by a space before hitting new line.

    this probably gets < br >:
    http://www.eurogamer.net

    this probably doesn't:
    http://www.eurogamer.net

    let's see...

    some edits later: they both seem to work, so I can't pinpoint it... never mind then...
    Edited by 4 at 14/10/09 @ 08:03

  • Nephirion #143 2 years ago

    I think this is another " test the waters " stealth price hike however amazing a game is I personally wouldn't pay any more than £39 not because I can't afford it but purely on the basis that in a recession I have much more important things to spend my hard earned on.

  • AccidentProne #144 2 years ago

    Not sure about the price hike. I got an email from Game yesterday telling me my pre-order price had dropped to £34.99. Bargain!

  • ChadSexington #145 2 years ago

    I'm a fan of Forza and Gran Turismo for different reasons, so I reckon they can co-exist. I have always like Forza's less sim-y physics and handling, which means it can be played well with a pad, making it good for a quick race; to get the most out of GT you really have to have a decent wheel because the simulation physics are getting beyond what a pad can handle, but you get an equally satisfying experience, just for different reasons.

    I have no problem with people preferring one to the other (if I could only have one it would be GT), but it does strike me as ludicrous to argue that Forza is more 'realistic' (as a previous poster stated, this is completely relative), especially with the concessions that have been made to arcade-style gameplay in the new one. That said, my biggest problem with Forza is not the fans or the community, but the developers, Turn 10. I can understand that they are proud of what they have delivered with Forza 3, but do they have to turn every press opportunity into a GT and Polyphony-bashing exercise? It's so crass and American and when you compare it to the non-committal comments made by Kazunori Yamauchi who I can't ever recall having ever said Forza in an interview, they just seem like titanic arses.

  • pp8226 #146 2 years ago

    @donnie080208
    What are you going on about that is RRP price for the Collectors edition. And on shopto the price is £46.85

  • budgietheii #147 2 years ago

    Chadders, so you're saying one is more realistic than the other, and then that no video game racer can truly be called realistic. The reason the pad works well in this game is that they have worked very hard for three games on the tools that interpret joypad inputs and convert them to the inputs of a wheel and pedals, see the telemetry display in forza 2 showing one bar for the displacement of the stick and then a representation of how that turns the wheel. When you then play with a wheel you're getting a direct input into the latter.
    As for the whole shit talking rubbish, that was a set of interviews during E3 with the full might of the microsoft press engine constantly bearing down on them. In all the interviews that I have read or listened to since (obviously that's just my personal exposure) they have been perfectly civil and shown great respect to PD for what they have done over the years. At the same time they are obviously very proud of the game they have created.

  • miiiguel #148 2 years ago

    "That other driving sim (forget the name now) on the other format can do both so why not this.

    That one which isn't out yet, thus it always win in comparision because it doesn't have to prove anything - because, let's face it it doesn't exist! - , is that one ?
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 10:59

  • funkateer #149 2 years ago

    The first time i tried the demo at a friend's I was a bit sceptic about the handling, but after having spent some more quality time with it (and more importantly, a good steering wheel!), I'm actually considering to get an X360 for this.
    I think the handling is actually just a good as GT5:p and while Forza 3 doesn't look as slick as GT5:p, it feels slicker in places with it's rock steady frame rate.
    And more importantly, it's almost available.

  • finexi #150 2 years ago

    "I've been enjoying 60fps driving since the PS2 and tbh think these so-called nextgen consoles should be able to deliver both nice eye candy and smooth gameplay. That other driving sim (forget the name now) on the other format can do both so why not this."

    There's something about the gameplay standards this "other not released yet racing so called sim" just don't match with the... real sims! Probably that's why this both graphically and gamy harmony could not be achieved... Anyway, I can handle this "issue" no problem! I believe the fun factor will keep my mind out of it...

  • GamerG #151 2 years ago

    For anyone who needs further evidence of the fact its only PS3 fans that shit up threads compare this Forza thread to the GT5 thread also posted yesterday

    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/yamauc...

    ironically the only one trying to shit up the GT% thread is rhubarbandcustard who trolls against forza, I mean how sad & desperate is that?
    Edited by 2 at 14/10/09 @ 11:56

  • MeBrains #152 2 years ago

    gamerg: one meagre thread which was left "unharmed" and you call it fact? jokes, right?

    ps3 only and fucked up:
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/ps3-bl...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/vesper...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/bbcs-p...
    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/mag-ps...

    and so on...

  • theiceman #153 2 years ago

    Gran Turismo is gonna blow this two-bit copy out of the water!

  • DaveT #154 2 years ago

    Alkeno: "Anufea I think you are confusing framerate with refresh rate... there is nothing stopping a 45fps output to display correctly on any device (25fps PAL, 29,97fps NTSC, 60/75/100/120Hz flat panel). If movies with their terrifying 24fps can be correctly displayed on any device by using simple tricks (such as pulldowns, etc.), anything can :-)"

    Incorrect. Framerate is broadly tied to refresh rate. If you went for a 45Hz framerate, you'd either get torn frames where it displayed parts of two different frames, or stutter, where it displayed one frame for a period of two frames on the displays current refresh rate.

    Movies can get away with things games can't, due to being not only smoothed to some degree (Pause on a moving scene, it's not one pure frame being displayed), but also non-interactive.

  • Ergates_Antius #155 2 years ago

    Both PS3 and 360 fanboys are equally capable of derailing review threads with format shit-throwing.

    They're also equally paranoid about bias in EG reviews. If any big format exclusive game doesn't get a 10/10 then you can be sure than some fanboy will accuse EG of being biased against the appropriate format. If one does, then you can be equally sure than some fanboy from the opposite camp will accuse EG of being biased *for* that format.

    Sometimes you see EG accused of being biased for *and* against a format in the same thread!

    It's really rather pathetic and more than a little tiresome.

  • EuroStalker #156 2 years ago

    "Turn 10 has sacrificed flash for a faultless 60 frames a second, and understood that in simulation, what you feel is far more important than what you see. It has diverted all of the 360's resources to giving you the smoothest, most believable, most physically rewarding drive you've ever had. Who cares what the scenery or the tyre-smoke look like when your eyes are laser-focused on the next apex, when your fingers can feel the road surface? It was the right decision "

    So is it safe to say that GT is still the much better looking game then. Seems to me that GT5 will be the best looking racer out of the big two.

    If graphics aren't important in a racing game then I'm going back to F-Zero with its Mode 7 technical wizardary.

    I think I will wait until March 2010 to play the next gen racer.

  • Hix15 #157 2 years ago

    And in that exact same quote you have listed why i will be picking Forza up!
    "what you feel is far more important than what you see. It has diverted all of the 360's resources to giving you the smoothest, most believable, most physically rewarding drive you've ever had. Who cares what the scenery or the tyre-smoke look like when your eyes are laser-focused on the next apex, when your fingers can feel the road surface? It was the right decision"
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 13:55

  • RobTheBuilder #158 2 years ago

    Wow some people should grow up.
    There is always system fanbaiting and fanboyism. We just see more of it now because of the net.

    My experience is this:

    360 fanboys generally accept the weaknesses of the 360 and give a biased but relatively fair opinion. E.g.: "GT looks good but I prefer Forza"
    Ps3 fanboys are more likely to be rabid, they MUST be right and refuse to see weakness in PS. E.g.: "Forza 3 is rubbish, doesn't look as good as GT5, Xbox is shite, why do you pay for live, rabble rabble drool..."

    Partly because PS3 owners seem to be more teenagers as opposed to 360's kids or adults. Partly because for 2 years the only thing they had on their system's side was persistence... (joke)

    Oh and back to topic: Forza 2 was so much more fun than GT4. Unless Polyphony have fixed the dull AI then I can't see me being tempted back. 360fps physics never seemed so exciting...

    Hix15: Exactly - Give me GT5 with slightly lowered graphics, more cars and better AI any bloody day of the week.
    Edited by 3 at 14/10/09 @ 14:11

  • TopKatt #159 2 years ago

    Robthebuilder in Xbox fan thinks Xbox fans are better than PS3 fans shocker!!

    My experience is that there are just as many whingy obsessed fanbois on both sides of the camp. It's best if we just ignore them all to be honest.

  • Bosthian #160 2 years ago

    Can't wait to start playing that game.

  • GamerG #161 2 years ago

    @ MeBrains

    just read the first thread, apart from one post from the Negotiator early doors all it seems is a decent discussion mainly between PS3 owners some who are unhappy with the problems they had and the fact they have had to pay £128 each time then other PS3 owners attacking them for "having dirty houses".

    Read every post in that thread, then read every post in this thread and you will see I am correct

    (I cant be bothered reading the other threads you are obviously only capable of seeing what you want to see, either that or your head fills in the gaps so perhaps my earlier advice to read both threads would be a waste of time)
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 14:51

  • muttler #162 2 years ago

    post #166"@muttler
    You dont have to use the rewind function and you can turn off all the driver aids to get a "real" sim feel. Its all in the review if you even bothered to read it. "

    I refered to the review many times in my post, it's obvious I read it if you even bothered to read all three paragraphs of my post properly. The point is if the rewind feature is there, it'll be a temptation to use it. In Forza 2 the assisted laptimes were listed on the same scoreboards as the unassisted ones, which is one thing, but the main point I was making was that the review implies that the laptimes where the drivers have used the rewind to correct their mistakes (although flagged) are listed on the same scoreboard, whats the flipping point of the scoreboard then if alot of the times are 'doctored'? It's an example of Turn 10 trying to cater for everyone and watering down what was a pretty hardcore sim, and I dont understand why the reviewer and commenters are seeing this as a positive thing.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 20:59

  • RobTheBuilder #163 2 years ago

    TopKatt - As I said, "Im my experience".
    My preference for Forza over GT has no link whatsoever to my experience of both 360 aqnd PS3 fanboyism.
    There will be idiots for both, but I can hardly pretend that I haven't found more PS3 owners behaving in a childish way...

    I think my statement was balanced, and you over-reacted in a way that allllmost proves my point!


    @Muttler - They are listed in the same place but below non assisted I think.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 15:12

  • cianchristopher #164 2 years ago

    Anthony Daniels, did you play C3PO?

    Bit gay, aren't you?

  • budgietheii #165 2 years ago

    @muttler times flagged for any reason such as collisions, drafting, using the re-wind button are ALWAYS listed below a clean un-flagged time in the leaderboards.

    No need to worry about the accessibility aids ruining the game for the hardcore. Turn 10 have shown before that they take this stuff seriously, even if that requires a total scoreboard wipe to remove exploited scores soon after F2 had come out.

  • GamerG #166 2 years ago

    The reind feature is awesome, it will allow you to perfect every corner before doing your quick lap, the perfectionists are going to love it if the demo is anything to go by!

  • TopKatt #167 2 years ago

    @Robthebuilder

    I don't think one group is any worse then the other, it can seem that way as you tend to notice the PS3 fanbois more because they're idiots attacking your console of choice rather than idiots defending it. I used to think Xbox fanbois were worse for that reason then I started reading the comments of PS3 fanbois and getting very embarrassed to be honest. I wish they'd all just piss off and let real game fans talk about games.
    Edited by 2 at 14/10/09 @ 16:00

  • TopKatt #168 2 years ago

    @Area88

    People focus too much on that sort of thing to be honest. The fact is that Forza 3 seems to be an amazing game, getting 9s and 10s all over the place. Any xbox owner who gets it is going to have a blast with it. Will their experience be diminished in any way if GT5 gets rated even higher? Or will they enjoy the game more if GT5 gets rated lower? I don't think so.

  • monkeywithnoeyes #169 2 years ago

    @muttler. In the demo's leaderboards everything counts..and is recorded. So if for example you get a slower lap time but make no errors during that lap then you'll appear higher on the leader boards of your friendslist than somebody with a quicker laptime who crashed and bounced off the side walls alot. True, the main leaderboads it currently throws everybody together..regardless of rewind used, regardless of assists. But everything marks down for comparrison..and EVERYBODYS always on an even keel.

    I really dont get people using the rewind "temptation" as a negative against the game.. you may as well mark down every pc game for having a quick save key offered as temptation. If you're serious about your gaming you're gonna still want the bragging rights of getting the fastest time without using rewind - as you CANT hide the fact that you used it. Whats the problem?

  • WinterSnowblind #170 2 years ago

    @muttler
    The leaderboards for Forza 3 show which assists are on and to what degree.
    Lap times become "uncertified" if you use the rewind.

  • uglygamer #171 2 years ago

    Lap times become "uncertified" if you use the rewind.

    Is there a way you can tell?

  • ronuds #172 2 years ago

    People think that having a feature which is totally up to the user to use or not is a fault with the game?

    Less options, plox! :D

  • bloodflowers #173 2 years ago

    Choosing 60fps over detail is a choice that more developers should make - I wasn't planning to buy this but I might give it a look now - I'm sick and tired of watching jerkyspaz slowvector games.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/09 @ 21:22

  • JackB #174 2 years ago

    To all the people who said GT5 hasn't been delayed... Show me where they said it would come out in 5 years. Or better yet show me the people who figured it would take 5 years. I'll wait.

  • ChadSexington #175 2 years ago

    Have times become so bad for Xbox fanboys that they now have to troll boards for 360 games too?

    I despair for humanity, I really do...

  • RobTheBuilder #176 2 years ago

    @TopKatt - True. Though over the years I have become much less biased on these things, so would expect to be quite fair on judging. Maybe I just got the wrong PS3 commenters on my topics!

    Real game fans we are :)

    @Bloodflowers - I wish EA would make that choice more often. NFS last year was shocking. I swear there were single figure fps on corners.


    We all know GT5 will be great if you ignore FM3 comparisons. But I wonder if it has been put back deliberately to avoid FM3 comparisons...
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/09 @ 14:05

  • RobTheBuilder #177 2 years ago

    @semitope I did say "I wonder if".

    It does feel like a 'put back' though, as opposed to previous 'not finished yet' date misses.

  • Les #178 2 years ago

    "I think my statement was balanced, and you over-reacted in a way that allllmost proves my point!"

    Like all human beings, even the most blighted fanboys tend to think their statements are balanced. What you think about yourself is simultaneously the most important and most irrelevant fact of life...

  • SteveV #179 2 years ago

    "sterile and bland, with few effects, poor environmental detail"

    Say what? Are they playing the same game? The track in the demo looked stunning.

  • Eighthours #180 2 years ago

    @Uglygame

    Any lap times using the rewind or cutting the track appear below "clean" laps on the leaderboards no matter how fast they are.

  • lukaz #181 2 years ago

    From what I read Forza 3 has no system link support!

    Really annoying.

  • zoolophage #182 2 years ago

    Looks great but I've only loaded F2 a handful of times since I got it when it first came out. You know how it goes...buy a new game then another great one comes along soon after...and before you know it you've got a bunch of great games and not enough time to play any/all of them!

  • lukaz #183 2 years ago

    They screwed up multiplayer.

    Not only is system link missing, public lobbies, too :(.

  • bloodflowers #184 2 years ago

    Rubber band AI was very obvious in the demo and the reason I'm not buying this.

    Shame.
    Edited by 1 at 23/10/09 @ 13:47

  • DontLikeJelly #185 2 years ago

    This game has no rubber band AI. Sorry but you are wrong.

    If you over/underpower your car or set the difficulty to easy/hard you will notice immediately. Lot's of lonely driving.

  • Nero85 #186 2 years ago

    If Xbox Live is not officially available in your country (like Greece, for example, yep, we're in the EU since forever) don't bother buying the limited edition of this game for the extra 5 cars, because the codes are not available. A friend of mine bought it, and sent complaint at the company making it, but all they told him was that "it's Microsoft policy not to give the codes" and they couldn't do anything about it. That's lame, because we pay for the damn Live using addresses from the UK, and get ripped off with stupid stuff like this.
    Edited by 1 at 23/11/09 @ 17:19

  • jordan77 #187 2 years ago

    i need help i am tryig to get on 2 player campaign on forza motrosport3 it ses perental settings have blacked it i cant find where the perental settings are

  • jordan77 #188 2 years ago

    help me plz

  • Boomerang #189 2 years ago

    These are not the support forums you are looking for...

    *Waves hand vaguely*

  • milky_09 #190 2 years ago

    from what ive heard from a fair few xbox players... this game is far from perfection as this review would have you believe. good game but certainly not the definitive racing game of this generation...as greenberg would have you us believe.

  • rommy667 #191 2 years ago

    Got this today for 20 euro new,its a fantastic racer esp for that price :)

  • vandit73 #192 1 year ago

    Forza 3 is not the game it's cracked up to be. There is still a hell of a lot glitches that need to be sorted out. And Turn 10 aren't releasing anymore DLC cars for it. Yeah the graphics and physics may be better than Forza 2, but for actual gameplay, Forza 2 beats it hands down. The career is long and teadious, they should add more career levels and cars to win. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Forza, it's the soul reason why I purchased a 360, but Turn 10 have left something out of Forza 3, that same something that made Forza 2 such a great game....no match making, just good old public lobbies!