Forza Motorsport 3

It's got rubber, but does it have soul?

There aren't many surprises in our second chance to see Microsoft's flagship 360 racer, simulator, paint shop and all-round petrol-head playground, Forza Motorsport 3. We had already been given a definitive look at the self-appointed "definitive racing game of this generation" at E3, where we were thoroughly schooled in its philosophy of accessibility, flexibility, 400-car and 100-track comprehensiveness, obsessive technical detail, world-beating community features and general all-things-to-all-men definitiveness by an on-message phalanx of developers from Turn 10.

The message hasn't changed, and it hasn't been added to much either - as if it could be. Our Microsoft rep dutifully runs through his PowerPoint about "turning gamers into car lovers and car lovers into gamers", "epic scope and scale", and making this slightly dry simulation series more "thrilling and approachable", without shying away from the nerdy numbers: visuals running at 60 frames a second, a physics engine simulating tyre deformation, aero and damage at no less than 360 hertz, 10 times as many polygons per car.

He reveals that Silverstone will join the roster of tracks, and lets me try out two new cars on one other new circuit, a different configuration of the fictional alpine "Montserrat" course seen at E3. The E3 vehicles were a straight-up roster of contemporary production supercars - Audi R8, Murcielago and co. - plus a couple of standard-issue classics. The two cars we try today are slightly more extreme in character, being the race-tuned BMW M3 GT2 and the wild, insanely powerful and tail-happy Corvette C6 ZR1. Others announced today are the exotic 1993 SVT Cobra R, 1997 Skyline GT-R (always Gran Turismo's car, surely), Audi A4 Touring Car and Lamborghini Reventon. It's hardly a shock: game about car racing features really fast cars. No alarms, no surprises.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 1

Turn 10 is intensely proud of Forza's graphics, and the 60 frames a second impress - it's not quite GT5, though.

I tell a lie: there is one surprise. Oversteering wildly around Montserrat's curvaceous bends in the ridiculous Corvette, I hit the d-pad and uncover a drift scoring system that racks up points according to how long you can maintain slides, keeping a total score for the race and a best score for each lap, as an alternative to the stopwatch. Even though drifting was mentioned in passing at the E3 presentation, it's unexpected to find it embedded in regular play rather than a walled-off competitive mode in the style of Race Driver GRID.

This is all-new, and quite unlike Forza Motorsport. Forza is supposed to be a racing simulation, and in racing simulations, drifting means lost traction, therefore sub-optimal cornering, therefore lost time. In racing simulations, drifting is a Bad Thing and not to be encouraged, which is one reason why many people don't like racing simulations. Not so Forza 3, it seems.

When asked, the man from Microsoft candidly admits that this drift scoring is a simple steal of the Project Gotham Racing series' drift Kudos, nabbed on the sensible basis that it's fun, satisfying and works well. For the moment, he says, it's a totally peripheral addition for the developers' and players' own amusement, and he's not sure if there will be any formal gameplay systems or even leaderboards built around it at all.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 2

Point-to-point races, a feature of the first game but absent from the second, will return.

But it's still a revealing little insight into how Forza's character has changed with this new instalment. Desperate to escape the oil-soaked pits, telemetry and time-sheets of the sim into a more glamorous world - where cars roll over when they crash, and drivers like going sideways in the sunshine because it looks cool - Turn 10 is loosening its overalls a little. It wants to give you what you want from a car game, and reward you for it. So, break into a powerslide like a cackling Top Gear presenter, and you get some nice big red numbers going up.

Forza is ultimately always going to be about driving real-world cars in some approximation of real-world conditions, of course. And it's not like you couldn't tailor the experience before - the series has always allowed you to tweak the level of assistance you get from ABS and traction control. But there are a few more options this time - auto braking, for one, or a halfway-house racing line that only shades in when you need to brake. Over and above this, there's a sense that the whole thing is more malleable.

Forza 2, with all the assists on, was a desperately dull drive. You'd have to take it most of the way to simulation settings to discover the immense physical involvement the handling model offered. Forza 3 feels more like you can shape it into whatever you want. With all the assists on, it's a stupid, pretty, fun game of dodgems. By tweaking the custom settings here and there - stability off, ABS on, traction on - I managed to get the Corvette to behave almost exactly as it would in a PGR, with sharp turn-in and deliciously controllable oversteer. Go to full sim, and you're in the rarefied world of a RACE Pro (and, probably, the gravel trap).

It's a livelier game then, and an initially friendlier one. Start a campaign, and the voice of English TV actor Peter Egan asks how familiar you are with racing games in tones that would only fail to soothe you if you were Richard Briers in Ever Decreasing Circles. Pick a car from the starting line-up - we're only given time to spot the Ford Fiesta Zetec S, but they all appear to be small hatchbacks - and hit Season Play, and the game immediately suggests three events (with bold, colourful posters) to choose from, suitable for the car you selected. Pick one and it feeds the races into a calendar, highlighting the Sunday finale as a double-credits, double-XP star event.

This is Forza 3's method of spoon-feeding its content to you. It might sound a little condescending, and in truth it doesn't change the structure of the game at all. At any point, you can switch out to a sober grid view, a veritable periodic table of motor racing covering the entire game, with events as tiny squares coloured according to whether you've unlocked them, and whether you're in or have a car suitable to take part.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 3

Turn 10 likes to boast about the 400 in-car views, although they're not as exciting as GRID's or PGR4's. This is a game best viewed from the bumper, or behind.

Season Play might be superficial, but that doesn't mean it wasn't necessary. Forza's Achilles heel was always the structure and variety of its career mode, which lacked excitement, imagination or, frankly, any distinguishing features at all, and could get old fast. It was just an endless sea of races. Adding drag racing and ovals is only going to do so much to change that, but the rhythms and carefully selected short-term goals of Season Play will do plenty to help you get through it.

Getting through it earns you two things - credits and XP, both of which can also be racked up in multiplayer. XP levels you up, which unlocks new events, while credits buy cars and upgrades. Another nice piece of streamlining is the easy upgrade option, which hand-picks optimal packages of tyres, aero parts, turbos and so on according to your car class and budget, and presents them to you in simple terms: changes in weight, power, lateral Gs (cornering ability, in other words) and Forza's excellent numbered class system. Needless to say, you can ignore this and spend as much time making your own choices in as much detail as you'd like, and tuning will doubtless still be the preserve of the true car geek.

'Forza Motorsport 3' Screenshot 4

Does it have Spa? Does it have Spa? Does it have Spa?

The least known - and perhaps, most interesting - aspect of Forza 3 at the moment is the community features. With its amazingly powerful paint shop, and Forza 2's auction-house culture which promoted a brisk virtual business in paint and tuning jobs for the talented few, the series was a quiet leading light for user content on consoles, long before LittleBigPlanet. Turn 10 is determined to build on this with the addition of a video editor, but hasn't said much yet about how it proposes to promote the content itself to the wider population of players - something which has been the stumbling block for all such games so far, including LBP. They'll only say that they have big plans for the auction house and leaderboards that will highlight the community's best creators, and will show more soon.

Frankly, if they said nothing, we wouldn't have to wait that much longer to find out. Forza Motorsport 3 is due on 23rd October - and "we'll hit our date", the Microsoft man says firmly, several times. It's odd that a game whose existence was only confirmed a couple of months ago will be real so soon, and in that circumstance it's also odd that there's not more to say about it. But it's really very simple. Forza was always great; this time, there's more of it - more stuff, more depth, bigger and better numbers - and it's easier to get into. You can't say fairer than that.

Forza Motorsport 3 is due out for Xbox 360 on 23rd October.

Comments (62) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • uglygamer #1 3 years ago

    LOve this game. GT what?

    Nah I love GT too :)
    Edited by 1 at 19/08/09 @ 09:22
  • CocoPops #2 3 years ago

    Can't wait!!
    Awesome.
  • wizlon #3 3 years ago

    Ahhh, I don't know whether to go for Forza 3 or GT5! Although I've heard GT5 has the Top Gear Test Track.... SOLD!
  • Tnuc #4 3 years ago

    Sounds a bit monged up
  • dr_zoidthrob #5 3 years ago

    Err... Silverstone has always been in Forza. Two different configurations of it too. Still... I can't wait for this game :)
  • AgentBalti #6 3 years ago

    I hope the tuning of the cars is at least 'explained' a bit better. I'd have no idea what gear ratio's, camber, and all the other gubbins did...was it good or was it bad? Did I need to buy that expensive part? No idea. (If I can gain money and the presumption is made you have a 'team' with you, then why can't I hire a mechanic to do all these things for me?) Just me?
  • YobRenoops #7 3 years ago

    Hmmm drift points? Not for me.

    GT5 will be the only way to race.
  • Darren #8 3 years ago

    "Turn 10 is intensely proud of Forza's graphics, and the 60 frames a second impress - it's not quite GT5, though."

    This comment from one of the pictures in the article puzzles me... have EG played actually GT5 or are they just comparing Forza 3 against that E3 2009 trailer which consisted entirely of replay footage? Serious question.
  • Darren #9 3 years ago

    "Turn 10 likes to boast about the 400 in-car views, although they're not as exciting as GRID's or PGR4's. This is a game best viewed from the bumper, or behind."

    Would you care to explain WHY that is, EG? It does irritate me when journalists make comments then utterly fail to actually explain why? Does a dashboard have to be exciting, surely it just needs to serve the purpose of representing an internal view for those that want it.

    One of the common criticisms of the second game especially was the lack of a dashboard view and now we have one at last it's apparently not much cop. I'd like to know why. Thanks.
  • Bealsy #10 3 years ago

    Awesome awesome awesome.
  • Darren #11 3 years ago

    Personally, I've never understood why a bumper view was good for a racing simulation. It might enhance the sensation of speed (although the speed should be convincing anyway) but it's not a realistic view at all and restricts your vision somewhat making corners harder to guage. Surely the point of a racing simulation is that you play it from a view akin to that of reality, i.e. a dashboard or internally placed view of some kind that places you in a position you would be and gives you the same viewing advantage as if you were really sat in that car?

    Of course, the camera angle is a preference thing at the end of the day, sometimes I prefer the external view because you can see where the other cars are easier, but a racing simulation without an internal dashboard view has no rights to be called a simulation in my opinion.
  • andywilkie35 #12 3 years ago

  • Beek4257 #13 3 years ago

    @Darren This comment from one of the pictures in the article puzzles me... have EG played actually GT5 or are they just comparing Forza 3 against that E3 2009 trailer which consisted entirely of replay footage? Serious question.

    +1. So what's the answer, EG/Oli?

  • Auzsiescooter #14 3 years ago

    This looks really good, can't wait for this or gt5
    I really don't understand the rivalry between them though, if u have an xbox buy forza, if you have a ps3 buy gt, and if you have both (like me yay) buy your favourite or both (like me yay again)
  • Oli Verified Reviews Editor, Eurogamer.net #15 3 years ago

    Apologies, I meant GT5 Prologue, really. And it's a just a general impression - Forza 3's car models are beautiful but some of the environmental texturing was a bit rough, I thought, and the lighting not as good. I would wait for Mr Leadbetter's analysis for the definitive view!

    As for the in-car view, again it's a general impression - you've only got so much time at these preview events - but I felt the cockpits were less detailed and less convincingly lit than PGR4's, GRID's or for that matter what little I've seen of NFS Shift.

    This is all nit-picking though, it's a great-looking game overall.
  • KreyAtiv #16 3 years ago

    I'm quite looking forward to this game. I quite enjoyed the first two. Looking forward to see what muscle cars they have in it as well as what sort of SUV's they've put into it. I'm sure there are bound to be a lot of FBI livery made from them. :D
    Any word of a demo??
  • sherpa1984 #17 3 years ago

    http://en .lfsmanual.net/wiki/Basic_Setup... for a tuning guide. Designed for Live for Speed but the principle is the same.

    This is a definite pre-order.
  • Zomoniac #18 3 years ago

    This comment from one of the pictures in the article puzzles me... have EG played actually GT5 or are they just comparing Forza 3 against that E3 2009 trailer which consisted entirely of replay footage? Serious question.

    There's some shaky-cam GT5 gameplay footage on Gamersyde. Looks absolutely gorgeous. And has damage.
  • BillyBrush #19 3 years ago

    Forza 3....on it's own, regardless of other driving games...looks pretty excellent to me.

  • BillyBrush #20 3 years ago

    ...Oh, and no one's ever going to agree re GT vs Forza as they span the great console divide, so any such conversations are pointless

  • Darren #21 3 years ago

    Thanks for the reply, Oli. Much appreciated. :)
  • Oli Verified Reviews Editor, Eurogamer.net #22 3 years ago

    Ashen-Shugar, I would love to have done those things, but that information was not available to me at the preview event I attended. Microsoft is saving it all for later, and I was not permitted to explore the menu options while playing.
    Edited by 1 at 19/08/09 @ 11:34
  • JensonJet #23 3 years ago

    I'm no 'car nut', but tuning a car to make it handle better and drive faster is rewarding, and fun. Admittedly it's a little daunting at first, but there's an easy way to learn what to do. First off... turn off all that driver aid crap! Without ABS, traction and stability, any adjustments you make to the car are more obvious. If you work on one setting at a time, then test drive, you'll notice a change to the handling, speed, or braking of the car. Seriously it's not difficult.

    I really don't understand why a driving line, or auto braking is even in this game. Surely everyone knows the line to take around a corner? And if you're completely new to racing games there are websites illustrating it, or it's in the Forza manual, or you can watch the line the AI cars drive. Easy.

    Underneath all the arcadey driver aid crap Forza is an excellent sim, and it's seriously so much more exciting and rewarding driving yourself around a track than having the game do half the job for you.

    "Forza's Achilles heel was always the structure and variety of its career mode, which lacked excitement, imagination or, frankly, any distinguishing features at all, and could get old fast. It was just an endless sea of races." ...seriously who previewed this game? It's a racing game... you race cars. Yes it lacks excitement if you don't like racing or probably have all the driver aids on, or play the game on the easy settings, but there were other parts to the game, namely, buying parts, tuning, and painting if racing's too dull for you.
  • linea #24 3 years ago

    Yeah, I'm slightly confused about the status of drifting as well now! Always unconvinced by it in PGR etc but I think that's probably more a general consequence of being unconvinced by PGR's handling in general.

    Mastering drifting with a more realistic physics model sounds like a good change of pace from the endless circuit racing of Forza 2 (which I am still mildly obsessed with but it could definitely do with a bit more variety)..... I do hope there are a few drift-type events in F3. Though I was hoping for more along the lines of Drift head-to-head type-events than the old PGR 'accumulate as many kudos as you can' type-affairs.....
  • Darren #25 3 years ago

    @JensonJet - The racing line is there to make the game as accessible as possible and allow newcomers to learn the tracks as it not only tells you how best to take the corner but also at what speed too. It's optional so I don't see why anyone would complain about it; in my opinion it is always better to include too many feature so long as they can be toggled rather than too few.
  • shamblemonkee #26 3 years ago

    Silverstone is in F2, i funking raced it la t night!
  • Bazfrag #27 3 years ago

    "Silverstone is in F2, i funking raced it la t night!" Indeed it is. Oh and a dose of swine flu to any mentioning gt here and forza in gt threads.
  • AgentBalti #28 3 years ago

    @zerolight - cheers for that, my faith in the franchise personally has been restored. My pre-order shall remain in tact. Cheers for the headsup.
  • dr_faulk #29 3 years ago

  • JensonJet #30 3 years ago

    Darren,

    I understand that, but come on, if you're so new to driving games that you need a driving line, that pretty much cuts out any other racing game out there. How new to racing do you have to be to need that? From another planet? Newly born? From a distant tribe that's never seen a car? And it's not just used by newcomers, as you well know, it's used by experienced players JUST so they can do a little better. So how many times does anyone come off the track before they start to learn? And this version allows you to reverse time! So you can have ABS, traction and stability with automatic gears, driving line, auto braking and reverse time!!! WTF. Why would you even touch a driving game if you need all that stuff? Unbelievable.
  • chronom4n #31 3 years ago

    It seems to me that on the graphical level anyways, forza 3 has gone the same way as GT3. For me I never like the graphics in GT2 and when GT3 came along I was genuinely blown away. Forza 3 seems to be doing the same in terms of graphics. Other things being will Forza3 have wet weather tracks? I honestly will be getting this game when it gets released as I just have a real hard time to enjoy the graphics engine in Forza2. Car modeling seems to be a huge improvement over the previous 2 games.
  • AgentBalti #32 3 years ago

    As far as I know, there's no weather conditions in Forza3...apart from blue skies, natch.
  • stephen #33 3 years ago

  • linea #34 3 years ago

    chronom4n: there are no weather conditions (or night racing) in Forza 3, sadly.
  • Darren #35 3 years ago

    @JensonJet - I can't believe you'd be so pig-headed as to dismiss an *optional* feature just because *you* don't want it! How selfish can you get? I'm astounded that anyone can even gripe about options which can be turned on and off at the user's leisure and convenience. Does it really spoil the game so much for you knowing that they're there? :o

    Lots of racing simulations have options to make the game as hard or as easy as possible, the reason being the publishers want to sell it to as wide an audience as possible not just the core audience. It's not like you cannot play the game on a challenging setting after all. I really don't see want you're whining about to be honest.
  • stephen #36 3 years ago

    If the lack of a weather system means 60fps instead of 30fps then its totally worth it.
  • busboy33 #37 3 years ago

    @JensonJet:

    Out of morbid curiosity, how do you feel about the option to go either automatic or manual? I mean, a real race fan drives manual . . . so does having the automatic option blow your mind as much as the guide line?
  • WinterSnowblind #38 3 years ago

    I honestly can't believe people are complaining about the assist features.

    If you don't want to use them, don't. But they're a great way to bring more people into the series, not everyone is looking for a 100% realistic game, and just want to play an enjoyable racing game. I think it's great that they can make a game appeal to both aduiances like that. Being able to rewind takes away a lot of the frustration by letting you go back, see what went wrong and fix your mistakes. Eventually those using it won't need it.

    It's not like you'll be able to use it during online races, and it just means the community for the game is going to be far bigger. All the other assists again just make it easier to play for those looking for a less hardcore experience. If you want the game to be 100% realistic, turn them all off. Or go outside and drive your car.
  • Calgon #39 3 years ago

    Oli can you keep your opinions out of the picture comments please, we can see those for ourselves and make our own minds up you see, you might find plenty of people disagreeing with you quite strongly on the whole.

    It is every bit as pretty as GT5 if not moreso if you ask me... especially for 3D scenery and attention to detail overall(but thats what Ive always noticed between the two Turn10 painstakingly model everything in 3D almost where Polyphony might opt for sprites), I expect they will both have their strong points but you were way off on suggesting GT5 is the stronger based on so little, you come accross a little biased and I can see Im not the only person who picked up on it.

    As for the in car veiws, they look just as good as the games you mentioned to me so far, plus thats something that Turn10 have said will be improved come release(60fps and not 30fps... probably expect more polish too).
    Edited by 5 at 19/08/09 @ 17:57
  • coolbritannia #40 3 years ago

    Forza 3 is a day one purchase for me. Looks more exciting than the 2nd, which is a win in my book.
  • Calgon #41 3 years ago

    If the lack of a weather system means 60fps instead of 30fps then its totally worth it.

    I dont think its anything to do with framerate really, it would take them far longer to complete the game tweaking the game to look right and play right ect and would take more disk space too, spreading the online component onto a second disk might work but you'd maybe have lesser tracks for online(HDD installs might mean they can get around this in the future though).

    I'd have said time is the biggest factor for those kind of decisions they've already come a long-long way in a short space of time compared to other devs, so lets be realistic here.
    Edited by 1 at 19/08/09 @ 17:48
  • Scimarad #42 3 years ago

    "...and Lamborghini Reventon."

    /pre-orders
  • bad09 #43 3 years ago

    Can't wait! Got my 360 wheel and a cheap copy of F2 to warm up. Seriously guys even with the industry ripping us left right and centre.....GET A FUCKING WHEEL FOR THIS!

    / hugs wheel
  • JDub #44 3 years ago

    23rd October is becoming a busy day indeed. Uncharted 2, PES 2010 (if any good) and now this...?
  • darc #45 3 years ago

    Re: drifting, I hope Forza doesn't become another racing series that rewards driving poorly. Regardless, I'm almost certain to buy it.
  • darc #46 3 years ago

    Re: the racing line, I generally turn off all assists, but I have to confess to using the racing line a lot. I know where to steer the car well enough, but (until true 3D gaming is a reality) the comprimised perception of depth when looking at a TV screen can make optimized braking very (and arguably unrealistically) challenging.
  • linea #47 3 years ago

    Personally I'm very glad that the game will have an auto-tune feature

    I've always wanted to race as T-Pain

    shortay!
  • brommers #48 3 years ago

    No weather system yet...
    They can always patch it in later if the community is crying out for it.
    Myself?
    Day.One.Purchase.
  • busboy33 #49 3 years ago

    @darc:

    "I hope Forza doesn't become another racing series that rewards driving poorly."

    I can't imagine that they would do anything more than tally how long you drifted for, so the most you could do is have custom modes that call a "winner" based on that. That would be only a subset of possible races, and according to T10 you can utterly avoid them (or drag racing) in the career and online if you like.

    I don't mind having the counter there . . . I'm not a drifter, so it's just going to be another feature I'll never use. Same for drag racing. My buddy is gonzo for drags, but I hate it. If we're racing together, then its a good old-fashioned race. He wants to go drag with the other 1/4 mile people, have fun.

    I'm guessing you're a F2 player. Surely you've noticed the group of people that are only interested in seeing how fast they can go around the "circle" track. No turning, no breaking, no line, no tossing your ride's weight just over the apex . . . speed and speed alone. I'm sure they'll be back in F3, and I'm sure there will be drift rooms too . . . but I just back out of the room once I see they're not interested in "racing". I don't ruin their fun, and they don't ruin mine. No harm.
  • JensonJet #50 3 years ago

    .
    Edited by 2 at 21/08/09 @ 19:03
  • man.the.king #51 3 years ago

    How DARE Oli even suggest that something on the PS3 may look better in the midst of this strong 360 community? The temerity!

    Of course, if Oli had suggested the opposite, mainly that GT5P sucks b*lls compared to Forza 3, he (Oli) might find more acceptance and agreement. In fact, acceptance by the 360 community on this website is what the staff should strive for, truth in reporting or expression of any opinions be damned.
    Edited by 2 at 20/08/09 @ 06:10
  • busboy33 #52 3 years ago

    @JensonJet:

    "But I understand many people find it too much hard work to accelerate, brake, turn AND change gears."

    So you aren't against aids, like auto transmission (TCS, ABS, thinhgs like that), dispite the fact that the game is too hard for many people without it.

    Let me ask it this way -- why are these assists "acceptable"dumbing down", and the guide line "unacceptable dumbing down"? Aside from being new, don't they both serve the same purpose?

    Look at it like this. The guide line teaches newbies how to spot a race line. The rewind (IMHO) is enormously helpful in training. If I'm having trouble nailing turns 8-10 at Laguna Seca, I can either practice it by running lap after lap (at a 1:30 per lap), or I can hit the turns, rewind, hit them again, rewind, hit them again . . . I can not only hit exponentially more practice runs in the same time, but also since the attempts are back-to-back the practice will be more effective.
    To me, the guide line is like a modified speedometer. When it glows red, I need to be mindful of my speed. It's not the best line, nor the best speed. I usually disregard it. But it allows me to make on-the-fly decisions about how to proceed without glancing down at the speedometer. Without the tactile feedback of actually driving (i.e. inertia), no game can convey enough data to truly let you "feel" how fast you're going.

    I suppose it depends on what you mean by "dumbing down". Makes it easier to drive? Then yes, it "dumbs it down". Makes you faster? No. Good times aren't handed out by using the assists. Having fun (for people that "find it much too hard" otherwise) is.
  • JensonJet #53 3 years ago

    ..
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/09 @ 19:04
  • darc #54 3 years ago

    @busboy, yes I was big into F2 and even bigger into F1, but I've never done any racing online. (I'm not much of an online gamer in any genre, actually.) In any case, if what you're saying is true, then fine by me. As long as the stuff I love is still in, I have no issues with other modes and features beyond that, so long as it's all optional.

    @JensonJet: Optional is a key word here. I don't know why you're getting so worked up here. This is a weird quote to pull from a second-to-last post: "I'll stop there because no one understands." Aside from the fact that you haven't stopped, I've gotta call you on the martyr complex. Why do you assume "no one understands"? Do you honestly think you're the only hard core simmer on the planet because Forza includes a racing line *option*?? That's a little over the top IMO. Would be easier to ignore the disconnect if you weren't spending entire pages of text talking down to everyone here with phrases like "I thought it was obvious..." These things are obvious, and in turn the attitude is unnecessary.

    On a separate note, you'd probably be even more frustrated (or perhaps you are) if you were into other genres, between auto-aiming in shooters, RPGs where you can't possibly die... the list goes on. Video game has certainly become more forgiving. Be grateful for a game where "forgiving" is optional! :)
    Edited by 3 at 20/08/09 @ 16:12
  • busboy33 #55 3 years ago

    @JensonJet:

    "At the end of the day I'm a fan of simulation. While accepting videogame limitations, they just can't be sim-like enough for me."

    So . . . you race full sim. You acknowledge that racing full sim will give you better times than using assists, so you will beat assist racers,

    Then the problem is that people you might race against will be slower than you? I could, at sume level, understand the anger if the assists gave an "unfair advantage", where my cat falls asleep on the throttle and sudenly is posting top lap times. But you acknowledge that's not the case.
    It sounds like you want the Forza community to be composed entirely of hard-core full-sim racers. That is, respectfully, stunningly near-sighted. There are members of the F2 community that contribute to the game for everybody who aren't serious racers. In the community promo video released at E3, one of the top painters is featured (I forget her tag). As far as I know, she never races . . . just paints. I can benefit from her liveries. I know at least two tuners who aren't that good at actually racing . . . but man, can they tune cars.
    How does bringthing these people into the community negatively impact YOUR enjoyment of the game? Instead of making the game JUST fur har-core simers, now everybody can enjoy it.
    And if some of those non-simers get so into it that they graduate to sim racing . . . more competition for you.
  • JensonJet #56 3 years ago

    ...
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/09 @ 19:04
  • busboy33 #57 3 years ago

    @JensonJet:

    Auto-upgrade is in the game now. Auto-tune? As a sim-racer, surely you recognize that the best tune for you isn't the best tune for me? There is no "best" tune. If I like a softer ride with understeer, and you like stiff springs with a loose back end . . .then our tunes will be night and day different. How can there be a "best tune" button? And if there was . . . wouldn't that be too "arcadey" for you? After all, a TRUE sim-player tunes their own car. Auto-tune would be too arcadey . . . right? Well, maybe not. YOU want it, so it's perfectly acceptable. If OTHER people want it, then they must be inbred morons.

    If it offends your morals so much to race against asisted drivers . . . then host the room yourself and block any assists. That way, your pure eyes will never have to be fouled by the sight of such blasphemy. In fact, if you lock the room against assists, you'd never know they even existed.

    A REAL sim racer doesn't worry about painting their livery either -- should that be banned from the game?

    You have your likes, that's fine. But you're really being a dick with your attitude. You don't want to race wth or against anybody that uses an assist . . . as I said, that's an easy goal to accomplish. You don't want to race on Laguna Seca? Don't race on it. You don't want to race D class cars? Don't. Why seer at people that do? I recognize that as the center of the omniverse, your decrees on taste and appropriateness are akin to physical laws. But mocking others from your lofty perch makes it difficult to respect your comments.

    How can a game that includes everything you want, PLUS more, be worse than a game that only includes what you want?
  • JensonJet #58 3 years ago

    Can't be arsed to talk about this with anyone here. I've offered opinions, thoughts and facts, and people just moan, or minus vote. Yeah, I guess I am superior to some Forza gamers in this forum, if not because I have listened to others in the past and learnt about Forza and tuning and it's helped me no end. Alternatively listen to no one, assume you're right, and stick with your talentless driver assists!
    Edited by 2 at 21/08/09 @ 19:11
  • Spin_Dr_Wolf #59 3 years ago

    Oli, did you ever play Forza 2 ?, or even Forza ? They both had braking only lines, the feature is about as new being able to change the pressure in your tyres.
  • darc #60 3 years ago

    "If everything I say seems to suggest to you that I feel superior or above anyone, then you've completely misunderstood me."

    Not for nothing, but you were misunderstood (that is, *if* you were misunderstood) for a reason. It might be a good investment to re-read your own posts, carefully, and consider your communication skills.
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/09 @ 16:11
  • bratmandu #61 2 years ago

    No Delorean = no buy.
  • Montanbaiker #62 2 years ago

    Can't get bored with this game!! Love the DIY design part in it