Fable II Review
Heroic.
Version tested: Xbox 360
Fairy tales may be primarily about getting married and shoving elderly eccentrics into ovens, but more often than not, there's a thread of revolutionary spirit running through them as well. Along with the enchanted footwear and talking mirrors, there's a corrupt king who requires overthrowing, or a cruel and mysterious grip on the land that needs to be broken. It makes sense, then, that alongside the high adventure and tumbledown castles of Fable II, in amongst the midnight intrigue and haunted swamps, there's a similar spark of revolution at work. But this is regime-change at its most fundamental, and Lionhead's fascination with the world of choices and consequences has lead it to topple some of gaming's most accepted idols. Fable II explores what happens when a game does away with most forms of punishment, and does nothing but reward its players from start to finish. The results are astonishing.
It's worth stepping away from the tried and tested Pavlovian mechanics that games have inherited from the coin-crunching arcades to consider what Lionhead is proposing. Almost every game ever made has reinforced its rules with penalties: if you fight and lose, you're killed; if you go off and explore, you get lost; if you're spotted when you're meant to be hiding, you're deported back to the start. It's a strategy that undoubtedly works - many of gaming's finer moments are often interlinked with its harshest challenges - but there's also no escaping the fact that when it all goes wrong you're often treated like a lab monkey undergoing a rather cruel experiment: you may really want that banana, but the chances are you're going to get a lot of electric shocks first.
Fable II, to continue this somewhat tenuous analogy, would rather shower you with bananas as often as it possibly can. The biggest surprise is that the game's inherent generosity never feels gratuitous, even when it's overturning many games' most fundamental design principles. Fable II's glowing breadcrumb trail leads you ever onwards to your next objective, but even though you can't get lost it still allows for deep exploration. It also makes you consider why so many games force you to traipse around in circles or click on every NPC you meet to access the next mission. Similarly, the game's death-free combat makes you wonder why you've been settling for mere survival all these years when you can spend your time working towards mastery instead. These ideas were originally introduced to Fable II so that it would be more accessible to non-gamers, and while that's undoubtedly been achieved, it hasn't excluded the more experienced player either.

Zoë Wanamaker's voiceover brings a highbrow sexiness to lines like, "You are now famous enough to use the Scary Laugh expression!"
Written down, this sounds like sacrilege. That breadcrumb trail is hardly new, after all, calling to mind the neon arrows of Perfect Dark Zero or even the first level of Halo, but Albion is actually an admirably intuitive place to get around - at any moment, you can switch off the glowing path and discover that there are more than enough signposts, way-markers, and other subtle environmental details to tell you where you're going. In fact, the game's controversial pathfinding system really comes into its own when you realise you can ignore it as much as you want, and what was initially patronising becomes empowering. Why not follow your dog for half an hour - he's there to lead you off the beaten path, after all - and head into the wilderness to discover the game's wealth of secret chests and side-quests? Buy a house, get married, have children, kill them all and smash the place up: whatever you choose to explore, the path will be quietly waiting behind you when you go back to the narrative, pointing the way to your next objective as it whimsically zigzags across paving stones, mossy roads, swampland and farmers' meadows.
And when you do follow it, you'll find yourself in the middle of a game that manages to offer you all the good bits of adventuring and few of the bad. Following Fable II's path of least resistance leads you through an expertly paced trail of combat and quests, spectacle and challenge, with no roadblocks in between. You never find yourself having to tease out the next chunk of story.
Fable II's approach to combat is equally idiosyncratic. While the one-button fighting has garnered the most headlines, it's the game's reluctance to punish you for failure that really marks it out: if you're downed in battle, it's not back to the last checkpoint. Instead you lose a few experience points, before surging heroically back to life, health-bar refilled, with barely a pause in the action. You expect this kind of treatment in LEGO Star Wars, but aren't role-players supposed to grind?

With the game's story finished, you're left with an open world stuffed with new side-quests.
Besides allowing inexperienced players to muddle through any situation, this allows the designers to string together truly mammoth battles. Yet far from rendering the combat toothless by taking out the penalty of restarts, the game provides another, deeper challenge - get through the fights looking as good as you can. While you can one-button your way through if you wish, the real pleasures lie in mixing it up - maximising the experience orbs received by pulling off acrobatic flourish moves and timed attacks, switching between area strikes and targeted magic, softening an enemy up with your sword before finishing them off up close with your rifle.
The swashbuckling animation and on-the-fly environmental details, along with your gradually expanding arsenal of moves, elevate Fable II's combat so much that it's the game's strongest point. Impacts are meaty, and enemies are varied in both strategy and appearance: massive trolls burst from the earth and bandits drop down from the trees, while hollow, skeletal men lumber towards you en masse before shattering under gunfire in a dry explosion of bones. The arrangements of enemies call for different strategies, and getting the most out of a fight still requires more traditional videogame attributes like skill and dexterity (in other words, I struggled).
Combat's not the only strong point, however: Lionhead's story is pleasantly mysterious, and its characters, quests and settings are all infused with an unmistakably British humour - more Adam and Joe than Monty Python, pleasingly. The sheer scope of the game is an achievement in itself, gliding from a knockabout Dickensian childhood through a grim middle age, and on to a conclusion which all hangs on some particularly tricky choices. Along the way, the narrative manages to cram in pirates, ghosts, and a familiar Fable variation on werewolves, a sure sign that the developers have your best interests at heart.
And Lionhead has largely delivered on its promises along the way: your dog, although essentially a mechanic for tempting you to explore, is a masterpiece - lovable, convincing, and almost entirely self-sufficient. Equally, the previous game's morality system has undergone a subtle rebalancing: it's still a largely binary affair, but your choice of oppositions tend to be more surprising this time around. As often as the game makes you choose between standard good and bad deeds, it makes you think about subtler deviations - how much incidental brutishness you allow yourself in the name of a justifiable cause, for example, or how much embarrassment you'll opt to create for no real reason. And Fable II also understands what few other similarly inclined videogames have: morality has no kick unless the game can actually make you want something quite desperately. In the course of Fable II, you'll be offered some genuine delights, alongside the promise of a few brutal sacrifices, and they're all choices that carry a convincing price for your world.

Once again, every choice you make will have an impact on your version of Albion - co-op is likely to be as much about exchanging notes as smacking bandits around.
There are problems, of course, but they tend to be minor annoyances. Context-sensitive prompts can be a little too sensitive to context, requiring a spot of shuffling back and forth to activate, and dialogue often takes a millisecond too long to load, resulting in a few stilted and unnatural conversations. There's a fair amount of backtracking, too, although fast travel is easily available, and an empty stretch of road is often a chance to enjoy another brief dust-up anyway. And despite the ambition of the game, I encountered precisely two bugs along the way: at one point I found myself trapped in a room I'd just looted when a hat-stand fell across the doorway and I had to fast-travel out, and on another occasion, a prostitute I was talking to got herself wedged in the wall of a townhouse, only to emerge out of the front door a few moments later looking faintly confused by the whole experience.
But these are quibbles compared to the grand scope. It took me two solid days of playing to scramble to the end of the narrative, and during that time, and due to a handful of particularly nasty choices - I had murdered innocents, I had laughed at a few funerals, I had Kicked a Chicken a Good Distance - I had somehow transformed from a nubile cutie in gypsy rags into Oliver Hardy's zombified older sister, bloated and saggy, my rotting skin covered in scars from inept battling, and the remains of my hairdo splattered unappealingly over my sweaty forehead. I had become distinctly unlovable, and yet the game was still willing to show me a good time.

The scars are from being defeated in battle, the lightning's due to magic skills. As for the haircut, I did that to myself.
Fable II's generous and forgiving template isn't one that many games choose to follow, but it proves convincingly that if you're clever enough, you can create a consistent challenge without resorting to mindless punishment, and you can craft a sharply told story that still has room for the player to express themselves within. Inclusive and often thought-provoking, this is a daring portrait of a game-world with all the failure cut out, and it's hard not to love a game that loves you so much in return. Fable II will charm you, thrill you, and leave you very, very happy.
10 / 10
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Comments (614) Latest comment 2 years ago
Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
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And a damned awesome review too. Well done.
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CUNTS! Sorry.
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/runs
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Well done Peter and Lionhead.
/Reads review
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...
...
...Fucking hell.
Now to read it.
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Congrats to everyone at Lionhead!
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Even though my 360 is broke at the mo... I think I'll try prolong it's life for another week or two until I can get my filthy hands on an import copy of LBP. I think putting it outside the window(it's overheating frequently) with several fans blowing on it may do the trick!
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I am very happy that the combat is good.... that was my only main concern.
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Sounds like they took all the best bits from the first game, and then focussed on all the other bits to bring them up to the same level.
/Is excited
Now I only hope they send it to me a day or 2 early. Please??
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Just kidding, guys
I didn't like the first game but just ordered the game today after seeing Edge's score... sound awesome!
Good high quality filler (with Dead Space) until LBP arrives in two weeks
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Now please tell me someone in Eindhoven has already managed to snag a copy
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/joins the ranks of the stunned, who weren't planning on getting this but just might have to now
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Please??
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can't wait
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Edit: This must also be the most positive thread I've seen on EG for a long time yet.... 40+ posts with no blatant flaming? What's wrong?
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Will definitely get this and stick it on the shelf next to Mass Effect and Oblivion. Then Fallout 3 can join them all, too.
Then, when I finally lose my job due to recession, or break my back doing something truly stupid, I have plenty of entertainment to see me through the bad times
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After reading this review I just quickly turned it on to make sure it still works. Then turned it off again.
Don't want to risk it RRODing on me before I buy this on Saturday.
Untill then, I shall amuse myself by reading this thread. Come on fanboys. I want at least 500 posts of drivel to laugh at!
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Delighted
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you never know, there will probably be a F3 GOTY edition out at some point with all the bugs fixed and DLC bundled in for free! Been the same for the last few games of theirs.
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I didn't plan to buy it,this autumn is gonna be wallet-busting.
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this or bayonetta...
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THIS WAS ONE I WAS GOING TO SKIP.
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Pay BT. Fable 2 will still be around in a few weeks time, your internet may not be.
@Everyone else
Wasn't expecting a 10/10 and in truth I don't believe it is that good. I already had this pre-ordered so no change there. Always planned to get it but, I'm going to be expecting a 8/10 experience from it.
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Good writing thier by EG as well, my thirst for Fable 2 info has had me wade through a lot of dross elsewhere.
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Get both; Bayonetta isn't until next year.
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thats what pissed me off about the first one, i killed a couple of innocents by mistake and wasnt a saint so that must make me the worlds ugliest human
evil people can take care of their looks too!
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After giving LBP a 9, this is actually quite funny... but I haven't played Fable 2 (yet) so I can't really say if the score is off or not for sure
No matter what... Fable 2 is a positive surprise to me!
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its a good thing I don't have any friends cause if i did they'd probably complain about never seeing me....
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3rd+ generation games (in a particular generation) are where the devs usually get to grips with the console fully hence more polishing time available to push towards that precious 10 score ...
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Corruption FTW!!
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LMAO
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Shame I don't have a 360.
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Bertie: Nice one on the patch confirmation. (Maybe add it as an addenum to the review???)
Are you playing it again when it's on general release, so you can co-op too?
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Nice score. Looking forward to playing it.
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Apart from that... WOW! A really impressive score and one which has me finally excited about the game despite being one of those that found the original Fable merely good but failing to deliver on its promises rather than magnificent and ambitious. Plus I can't wait to get a dog... it looks awesome in the videos I've seen and, for an RPG anyway, an original concept. Are there different dog species or is there just the one. Do other people in the game also have dogs?
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Better start pimping myself out then, eh? Or invest in some dice to choose which one makes the list..which ones should I leave and which should I buy? Hmmmm...
//advice gratefully received....
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Take it easy, boy
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this site is just getting worse by the day.
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Only a 2 page review though?
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I agree. Nice to see PM finally be "given" a break.. maybe people will stop writing "Fablelol" in news threads about him
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Far Cry and Fable - get those.
Leave Endwar forever.
Bond can wait for £20 or below
GOW2 more of the same and can wait for sub £15
GHWT if it floats your boat
Better to go for new experiences in my opinion. Dead Space? Mirrors edge?
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Mirrors Edge looks kinda different..I'll wait for the demo...
Between Fable 2 and multiplayer COD5, looks like the missus will be happy with the amount of time I'll spend with her!!
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Go buy one then. Easily worth it.
And 10/10 was just as expected.
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I expected the usual 8 or perhaps 9. But 10?!
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Graphically it looks similar to the first game (which didn't really grab me) and the likes of Zelda - it will definitely appeal to my better half, so will undoubtedly pick it up at some point (and probably thoroughly enjoy it), but for the time being I'm going to buck the forum and comments trend and retain a degree of scepticism (and save my money for Far Cry 2 or Fallout 3)
edit: funny that the Spore review is mentioned above, as I'm still feeling mightily ripped off by Spore (and the glowing EG review it received), and I'm getting whiffs of Spore from this review (and the lack of specific information about what you actually *do* in the game). Or maybe I'm just kidding myself in an effort to save money
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http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8fH3Iq6...
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Going back to Gears - it's good but I've personally grown a bit tired of it and this one just isn't doing enough new for me. So very personal view of it.
I found the atmosphere in Dead Space to be awesome and Mirrors Edge seemed to nail the controls so I'd rather go with them.
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Hilariously my housemate has been pestering me about going out and trying to make plans to do stuff over the next month. Good luck with that! The only time I'm leaving the house is for work and Quantum of Solace.
I can't wait for Friday now after this glowing review. Going to have to put some serious Saints Row time in until then.
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Why did the economy have to go shit at such a time... the golden days of PlayAsia are over :'(
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I expected the usual 8 or perhaps 9. But 10?!
Im personally getting rather pissed off by people complaining about high scores!! Do you not want to play good games or something?
How can anyone complain that there are too many 10/10 games? Surely thats a good thing?
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Edge gave it a 9, especially noted dog clipping (ooer) said it spoils the emersion.
Typical EG reversing Edge scores... 10Lbp....EG reviews are shit these days, 9 sr2 5 edge... 8 legobatman 4 edge.. I certainly know who I trust more.
Still, this game sounds amazing.
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Thing i really liked about this review is that Christian has taken in account what Molyneux asked and looked at it as a non-gamer, while also looking at it on how the "'core" audience will play it too. A game that will be enjoyed by all? well achieved Lionhead Studios. Roll on friday, I cannot wait to be playing this in single player and co-op with friends and family.
But then Fallout 3 is the week after, gonna have to blitz it the first time through lol. And lets not forget LBP is somewhere too, going to be poor come the end of november!
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Edit: There's not a single RPG in there btw, so reading it wouldn't even help a tiny wee bit at all.
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You can't judge a game fully on other peoples reviews you tool....
GTA4 got 10's galore, and I personally can't get into it. It just does nothing for me.
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The people who actually enjoy playing games and realise they're an activity to have fun with? Or do you listen to the pretentious bores at Edge?
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Troll!
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awesome, sounds amazing! anyone heard anything re: the collector's edition recently? since all the crap was removed (toy figure, cards, cardboard box etc), some places still aren't stocking/listing it - but i got the CE pre-ordered from play. is the CE still coming out, and on time?
and as for the 'incomplete' review - do eurogamer reviews EVER mention the audio? apart from a line or 2 about voice acting quality or music, i don't remember ever seeing any attention paid to the audio side. most other review sites are exactly the same, unless the sound design is particularly awesome it doesn't even get a mention... (yes, i'm a disgruntled sound designer whose work never gets mentioned in reviews)
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How can anyone complain that there are too many 10/10 games? Surely thats a good thing?"
Yes. If you are about to make a comment about the score, please take a moment to think what a twat you'll look, then fuck off somewhere else.
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Are we now CasualGamer portal ?
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Erm, it's not his first review... clearly. You asked for a few other games he's scored so you can have an idea of his 'likings'... I provided. You didn't stipulate that they had to be RPG reviews and tbh, does it make that much difference? His reviews are there for you to look at.
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Sold. Sold. Sold.
I have a quick question though, (apologies if this has been asked before), its about the narrative. I heard this is set some years after the first game, but having not played the original will this be an issue?
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Else I do think it makes a difference if he's into RPGs or not. As this is one. But then again, Mr. Molyneux asked us to set someone not used to these on his game - so maybe EG just comforted this wish.
Anyway, Fable 2 seems to be a very good. Unlike the first Fable, which was quite good, but not a must play title at any rate.
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My money is yours,well some of it.
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In short: you really do get out what you put in with this.
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Not helping my wallet though >_>
I wanna see what they give Fallout 3. Oblivion with guns or something more?
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Super Mario World, Goldeneye, Portal, HL2 etc etc all could be finished in a similar amount of time, does this mean they aren't worthy of high scores?
Anyway, can't wait to get my hands on this come Friday and am glad Mr Molyneuxs unwavering hype has been vindicated. Now I'm just hoping for a 9 or above for Far Cry 2.
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After giving LBP a 9, this is actually quite funny... but I haven't played Fable 2 (yet) so I can't really say if the score is off or not for sure
No matter what... Fable 2 is a positive surprise to me!
You must remember usual +2/+3 to score for being Microsoft exlusive
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CUNTS! Sorry. "
My thoughts exactly...
God damn it....Saints Row 2, Far Cry 2, James Bond, COD5, Fallout 3 and now Fable 2
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On the other hand, I loved Oblivion, and Fallout3 seems spectacular, and even OXM seems to think that F3 (10/10) is better than fable2 (9.5/10)...
On the other hand, with Gears2 and L4D coming in november, I may not need another post-apocalyptic game at the moment....
Shit, i think i'll just flip a coin and hope for the best.
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HE'S BACK! THE ULTRA DEFENSIVE FOR NO REASON PERSON IS BACK!
We're gonna make you famous, pearly. For being such a lemonhead. Congrats.
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this game looks like crap horrible graphics.
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MGS4 gets an 8
Fable 2 gets a 10?
Way to hide your bias EG.
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OMG they preferred one game to another!! teh bias!!
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You shame that name.
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/Well done Lionhead.
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OMG LittleBigPlanet got a 9 on Eurogamer, they are so anti 360! This comments thread is despairingly predicatble.
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Microsoft Exclusives always seem to review around 2 points better than they should.
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eurogamer says nothing about graphics because EVERY pic looks last gen!!!
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or it might just be a bloody good game.
Yeah Halo 3 good probably
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- Imo graphics look a bit lame, technically. Games like Viking or IU look better and more "next-gen" imo.
- It's an RPG-lite...I'm about 20 hours in and only died once completely by accident
- I like the minigames and buying property
- *Way* too much 4th wall joke stuff on the loading screens, ugh. Not funny.
- Your avatar (I have a halo and got the "extremist" achievement for purity) is super ugly. He looks like Jay Leno ffs. And don't start me on the retarded selection of clothing. I can't make a cool looking character.
- It isn't fundamentally more open than Fable 1, it's not a free-roaming game like Oblivion. You are still locked into areas, but they're more open now and there's quite a bit more to explore.
- Too little combat though. There should be more enemies and more types of enemies.
- Spellcasting. It's idiotic. You can level up spells from level 1 to 5, you cast spells by pressing B and charging up, but you can only set a single spell to a single charge level. So you can't easily cast two different level 5 spells without using the d-pad, and it's basically not worth levelling up your spells. Not that it matters, two level 5 spells kill almost everyone anyway.
- The map - I want a proper minimap for exploration ffs, sometimes there's no map at all. Not that it matters because areas are usually quite simple, even the ones that look complicated.
- The "innovative" mechanics are mostly a bit stupid. You still buy titles (this is possibly the stupidest idea ever), it's extremely easy to make people love you, and the dog is mostly just a gimmick. But they're mostly fun (except buying titles).
Overall I like it. It's a good game, but it'd be nicer if it had more...errr...fake depth. I mean, like a reason to check out the merchants (except for buying potions for easy XP), for example for a better selection of weapons, or that kind of stuff :-/ (This is my biggest problem with the game actually, the weapon variety). 10/10 might be a bit too much, especially for people expecting a "real" RPG.
So overall, it is Fable 1 with a few improvements (mostly what people wanted anyway), and it is indeed pretty lite, "casual crud for the masses" if you want, but done pretty well. It doesn't have what I liked the most in Fable (the heavy weapons had a different set of animations if you were too weak to properly use them, that was super cool).
Oh and I have LBP too
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Great review and I'm sure everyone at Lionhead will be estatic.
Quite looking forward to it now. Great that they don't punish you so much if you lose in combat, but only take a small bit of experience from you and let you get back up like revitalised.
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As to these preconceptions about how long a game should be its an utter load of nonsense. I dont want a game that takes 40-50 hour, or in some people's opinion ideally 100+ hours, to finish. RPGs are only normally that long because they require ridiculous amounts of levelling up before you can acheive anything. Particularly as someone who likes to take their time with a game, if this was a long game I would probably end up never finishing it. The problem is that before the review is even out people have already decided what the game should be. They've already decided it needs to be long, or they've already decided it needs to be punishing and make you pay with your soul and cripple your mental resolve when you die. Basically, they want it to be the same as generic game #456.
Then we come to the issue of EuroGamer handing out more 10s than usual. Surely this cant be a bad thing. The only voices of dissent as far as I can see come from fanboys of consoles receiving fewer 10s than another. As for those stupid comments "OMG LBP 9 FABLE 2 10! WTF!" could it be possible that the reviewers actually like the game slightly more. I dont honestly know how someone can criticise without having played both games. If you weren't wrapped up in fanboyish immaturity you'd probably find too that you enjoyed Fable 2, just as frequently as Xbox devotees come to play LBP and think that maybe it does deserve a 10 after all. Imagine a time there were lots of truly decent games available - all could be given a 9 or 10. It would be great wouldn't it. Why not indulge in that time, rather than bitching about it.
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Somebody is WRONG on the internets!
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Of things that are already proven to be ace:
MGS4
Fable 2
GTA4
Braid
LBP
Wipeout HD
plus a few unknown quantities with the likes of:
Gears 2 (assuming it is going to be as good as people are hyping it to be)
Mirrors Edge
Fallout 3
Far Cry 2 (perhaps from a PC perspective)
I'm sure there is a fat bunch that I've missed to be considered.
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some bitter bitter tears here."
Nah. Lots of people will find the same. It's not a particularly good looking game technically (and imo the art style is itself a matter of taste).
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thank god i pre ordered this game (collectors edition)
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We haven't played it yet.
Remember how EuroG underscores some games as well? Surely we should wait if EuroG are right on this occasion!
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Can't afford both. Damn.
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This and/or FarCry 2 though... ooh. Tough release schedule coming up.
@roovychainsaw
"I'm sure you could complete oblivion's story in 2 solid days of playing"
I'm pretty sure that the Oblivion developers ran through it in about 5 hours. Skipping the side quests and so on, of course. Someone had a link once in the comments for one of the previous Fable II articles.
GTA IV is also completable in 2 days (the main story quests at least) if you don't want to spend your time playing pool or driving aimlessly about doing mischief.
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http://www.o xm.co.uk/article.php?id=6641
"Just like the original Fable, this is a game that's hugely likeable, but only if you put the effort in. Make no mistake, it's genuinely charming, but everything from unclear storytelling to rubbish mini-games to glitchy graphics to sluggish menus makes an appearance, and you've got to take it all with a smile.
Fable II really does want your love. It wants you to stare at the sunsets, adore the characters and earn the 2.5 million gold needed to buy that castle. But you will need the patience to put up with its clumsiness as you go."
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"The Official UK Xbox 360 Magazine gave Fable II "just" 8/10."
Different person has different opinion, gives different score shocker.
Edit: Dunno what happened there. Disappearing comments syndrome.
IGN UK gave it a 9.5.
[link url=htt p://xbox360.ign.com/articles/921/921516p1.html
]http://xb ox360.ign.com/articles/921/9215...[/link]
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Now sold
Now I won't be buying my parents their annual festival hamper
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So mummy won't buy you both boxes, boo hoo. That doesn't necessitate blindly slating everything that comes out on the other platform. The sensible few who rightly uphold this attitude clearly haven't forgotten that the medium that everyone here loves (I assume that's why everyone is here, not severe attention seeking) benefits from developers creating these great titles. I don't care if someone publishes the next AAA must buy title on my fucking microwave as long as it plays well and lives up to expectations. Who threw about the cash to get the exclusivity deals should be exempt from conversation when discussing the quality of a game.
Noone could possibly pick up a controller on the platform they declare this unbridled, pathetic hate war against and fail to find at least title they enjoy. Amusingly, whatever they choose may well be a platform exclusive.
Regarding the scoring- If you aggregate up every score EG gives a 360 or PS3 game, it's rather likely that one is going to be higher than the other- if every majorly hyped title got the same 10/10 score that'd be rather boring, and I'd have a lot more questions about journalistic integrity.
Anyway got this preordered, really looking forward to shitstorm of games that's about to rain down on my house over the next couple of months!
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Congratulations to the team if you're reading (and they are, folks), especially the guys I know from Xengroup.
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Yeah but.
It's THE Official Xbox mag
...
But yeah whatever. I'll still buy it even if it is just an 8 / 10 game.
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At any rate, take THAT status quo! This is so SOLD.
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I have 14 games to get in the next month or so. Brilliant!
Fable is the next one, 4 days.
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"@sneetch - Obviously... that's exactly *why* I posted the link so people can get a better gauge of what the game is like and what potential shortcomings there might be. No game is perfect after all.
Ah, sorry Darren, with just text it's so difficult to tell what people mean at times. Can't discern the tone etc.
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Anyone need a rentboy?
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And it's not a money thing, it's the time - I don't have.
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'sauce of my power!'
Is their anguish your meat?
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AWESOME!
This is exactly what I hoped for.
Too bad I won't get to play it for a few months.
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wish I had a 360
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You guize make me feel warm and fuzzy.
Congratulations Peter! About damn time.
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the score might be a bit high, but i'm happy
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This should silence the detractors wearing their "Peter Molyneux promised me a feature and instead ate my mother and raped my dog" t-shirts.
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"Is their anguish your meat?
Yes, just as their loathing is my wine
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Don't get excited yet, it might still be shit when played like it was the case with Bioshock and Oblivion. You're confusing review information with actual gameplay experience.
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On a side note I look forward to playing this game and seeing if it lives up to expectations as I have not played it and cannot jugde until I have (crazy thinking I know), heres to hope.
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"Mr Obycyek Investigates:Chinese Meals. For a number of years MrO has found that Chinese meals although enjoyable always made the master detective hungry again a few hours later. Never as fulfilling as an Indian Vindaloo or a Phall (now that is HOT son!) but upon the opening of a new chinese round the corner MrO has found that the portions are humungous and the extra chips come in a large plastic box! Now that is value for money son."
MrObycyek will return in "MrObycyek and the strange case of the Enflamed Nubbin"
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I may have gone overboard with enthusiasm. What I meant is that it's nice to see that the review seems to have made everyone happy - for once. Regardless of whether anyone's played it yet, people seem to be sighing with relief and giving Lionhead pats on the back. Which is nice, in case I hadn't mentioned that.
You're right though - we should brace ourselves for the torrents of inevitable bitching to come - and, most importantly, prepare for the possibility that we won't like the game nearly as much as Chris Donlan does.
BTW: Bioshock is awesome.
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It'll be fun to watch the dude's becoming "the best reviwer ever, and EG rulez!"...
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That's an opinion, not a fact...
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So's your mom!
Sorry
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ah good, so I am not the only one who rather would beleive 'the bigoted' EDGE. I also subscribe to GamesTM, which when compared to EDGE scores you do get a very genuine factual opinion... not like you said fanboyhitbaitning scores... oh and when I noticed the Fable banner I did worry!!
before I get called a tool again this has been on my must buy list all year, just glad I don't have to buy LBP at the same time so I can give this sole attention..
fanboy tards.
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As far as I know, you only exist as part of my imagination. There is no conclusive proof that any external reality actually exists. The burden of proof is on you, dawg. Do you exist? What is fact?
I conclude that anything I say goes and that I cannot possibly ever be wrong.
Actually, opinions are opinions. The world would be boring if everyone liked caviar, Beethoven's 5th or injecting speedballs into their feet.
You say tomato I say peach.
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Only had a quick go on Fable at my mates and thought it was pretty good myself. Hope he gets F2 as well 'cause i want a look but don't have an xbox. Hopefully Far Cry 2 and Fallout 3 will keep me happy though. Of all the MS exclusives this is the one i'm most disappointed about not playing. Oh, and the racers of course.
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+1. And lets not forget the 10/10 ratings for bioshock (short and easy), and halo 3...
I'll wait and pick it up second hand cheap when everyone's completed it in a weeks time and the 2nd hand market is flooded with copies.
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Also, I would think Fable would've gotten 10's on just about every site seeing as it's being advertised everywhere.
Ugh...fanboys.
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Well done Lionhead!!
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Not every site will have a cash for review score policy (if that is the case).
I know this sort of behaviour used to happen in the 90's with print mags (the game is worth an 8, but if we buy a couple of 2 page adverts - will you give it a 9?).
It is a BIT suspect when they ignore the flaws of a game though.. But I havent played this to comment yet.. But the shortness of it screams to me "RENT ME DONT BUY!", and as such - to me - that's not worth a 10.
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Heidegger debunked that train of thought...
"Seriously though, Les, this line of discussion can only degenerate into a fanboy argument."
Don't see why this would degenerate into a fanboy argument especially not as we're talking about a multi-platform game (Bioshock). My point is that review scores are useless but the information contained within this review makes it sound like a nice game. Only playing the game can confirm this.
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"I'll wait and pick it up second hand cheap when everyone's completed it in a weeks time and the 2nd hand market is flooded with copies."
Wow, good idea, that way you'll save fuck all at the very least whereas the authors of the game will get nothing!
Nothing against you smelly, I'm personally just not a big fan of the whole pre-owned thing. Personally, for the sake of the fiver I'd save buying second hand I think I'll buy it at launch and save a fiver for having pre-ordered.
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So you wont mind if I come around to your house and nab all your consoles and games then? I might set fire to the place when I'm done - But, don't worry, 'There is no conclusive proof that any external reality actually exists.' after all.
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That's quite offensive, imho. And sounds bitter. Let it go..., it's just a great game you don't like it, for *some* other reason than the game itself - and you know it.
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For "exclusive" reviews, there is possibly something going on behind the scenes, but this review was in no way exclusive.
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The first page actually only talks about how easy the game is and this is actually great. It sounds as if the choice for easy combat is a revolutionary one that makes you try out all the different forms of combat. I think this is pure nonsense. Challenge is nice, it gives you thrills, it's exciting. The reviewer sounds as if easier, non-challenging combat is more exciting because it makes you calmly try out all the combat options.
For the rest the review is quite non-structured and just talks about how nice the world is and how relaxing. Never, ever in the review text I read WHY this 10 is actually justified. The things that Fable II apparently does well in Eurogamer's opinion, A LOT of games do well but don't get a 10 for it.
I don't want to sound like a dick but I see no argumentation at all for the 10 of Eurogamer, and that kind of strikes me as normally they got really well written reviews.
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Me neither.. Imho second hand market is almost as bad as piracy.
HOWEVER.. *IF* this game is as short as they say it is.. It'll be FLOODING the 2nd hand bins really soon, thus forcing the full price down too.
I'll get it then.. Or maybe i'll rent it.. I can wait.
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1. I didnt say that this site was guilty - how am i to know?
2. I've not played the game yet - so i cant judge it
And neither have you - probably?
EDIT: But the review states - it's easy and a 10 hour game.. So for me, I dont think that's a "must buy" in any way shape or form. 10 hours easiness isnt worth 40 quid in my book.
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Hedbog's on holiday..
Tell you what it is, you all like PS3 too much and don't like seeing any game on 360 acheiving good review scores....there's nothing per se wrong with that, but this is a british game, they're a nice dev studio, just like Media Molecule (some of em used to work together) so leave the moans for an american game like Gears2 or something
Smelly, can you explain this incredibly long rant (there was a shedload more than this) because now you seem quite into the 2nd hand market even for a brit developed game (i can smell shit a mile off me)
smelly
11-Sep-08 22:58:52
@BillyBrush:
"you don't seem to be understanding something rather obvious though...WHY SHOULD A RETAILER GIVE GAME DEVELOPERS A CUT OF SOMETHING THEY'VE NOT PURCHASED FROM THEM "
Okay.. Where as you (like most people) are moaning about the PRICE of the games.. a VAST majority of a games price when you buy it new goes to the retailer.. When you buy a used game from the retailer pretty much 90% of the price goes to them.
But yet THEY arent lowering prices are they? Hell, they dont even sell you a 2nd hand game at a decent price (usually knocking off 5 quid tops). Despite the fact they take shit loads of money at BOTH levels, do they give discounts BACK to the consumer?
Do they fuck.
A retailer probably can make up to (or even more than) 200 quid off a sale (and resell) of a single physical decent game..
Has it ever occured to you that THEY subsequently could be lowering prices? Or indeed lowering the prices of the resells (which I consider to be absolute fleecing).
"Sometimes second-hand is the only way to get something that is "out of print" or which sells out rapid"
GAWD! Has it occured to you the REASON the shelf life of a game is so short is BECAUSE of the 2nd hand market?
On all levels GAMERS are getting SCREWED by the RETAILERS.. But yet you guys are actually sticking up for them and slagging off one of the people who MAKE the games for you.
Games can exist without retailers.. They cant exist without the people who actually make the fucking things.
As for it "not harming the industry" Bullshit. Its already happened! Why else do you think we have so many carbon-copy "gauranteed seller" fps games? Why else do you think everyone is jumping on the casual bandwaggon? It's become WAAY to risky to make games - subsequently next to no-one is taking risks..
Im talking to a brick wall here arent i?
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remember...
don't let THEM (evil retailers) screw YOU (nice customer) even if the game is on AN INHERRENTLY EVIL PLATFORM
you have morals, stick to em
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how is renting the game anymore of a benifit to the gaming industry than the pre owned circuit... which, many of the small retailers say it is the only thing that keeps them going.
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But I am surprised by this review. Can't wait.
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you did imply.
2. I've not played the game yet - so i cant judge it
Er... no I didn't, but I wouldn't bring "bribes" into the realms of possibilities. If I was a journalist I think I would consider offensive if someone brought up the possibility of me taking money to tell lies. Than again it's just a game, and therfor the reputation of the dude who written the review is far more important, imo. Better, and more polite ways of bashing a game/system, are available.
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"@smelly
how is renting the game anymore of a benifit to the gaming industry than the pre owned circuit... which, many of the small retailers say it is the only thing that keeps them going."
I believe that they need a rental licence for games and DVDs and have to pay a per-rental fee to the publishers.
However that would be 1) in Ireland and 2) what I "believe".
So I may be full of shit when it comes to your region and reality.
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I'm not debating the quality of the product, that's not in question. I'm debating the quality of the review, which for me always has been. A 9 for SR2? ffs! That's going to the dogs!
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"But the review states - it's easy and a 10 hour game.."
Could you find me the bit of review that state it's a 10 hour game please? I think you'll struggle. And how about Super Mario World, clockable in a couple of hours if you shortcutted through Star Island. Does that make it an inherantly bad game that we never should have bought new?
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If that's what you want Fable II for, then you would probably be better off renting it. If you want to play the game as PM intended, then you'll get much more out of it.
Personally, I plan on doing and seeing as much as possible - which means for me the game will last much longer. I've seen video of people beating Oblivion is less than 10 hours, though, so I'm not too worried about the length of the game.
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Whether he definitively did is a matter of contention. Still, I wasn't being serious. You silly figment of my imagination.
"My point is that review scores are useless but the information contained within this review makes it sound like a nice game. Only playing the game can confirm this. "
I agree with that. We put too much emphasis on review scores and reviews in general, often treating them as the ultimate judges of a game's worth.
"Don't see why this would degenerate into a fanboy argument especially not as we're talking about a multi-platform game (Bioshock)."
I was afraid that if we mentioned Bioshock again other people would start arguing about it, precipitating this comments section into a no man's land. My reason for mentioning fanboyism is that I use the term to include any rabid defending or attacking of a video game regardless of platform 'loyalty'. So - someone who loves to hate a multiplatform game, often with little rhyme or reason, is as much a 'fanboy' as someone who continually vocalizes his contempt for a particular games console. I'm probably not using the term right, but it seems fitting as everything that I've described can neatly be categorized under 'being a moron' - which is what the term 'fanboy' seems to stand for these days.
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Same dog, but the dog morphs depending on what kind of player you are. So you can end up with anything from a Rottweiler to a Golden Retriever.
I don't know if those are the exact breeds, but you get my drift....hopefully.
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/unoriginal fuck
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"This is only a 10-hour game if you follow the bread crumb trail from major plot point to major plot point and do little else.
If that's what you want Fable II for, then you would probably be better off renting it. If you want to play the game as PM intended, then you'll get much more out of it.
Personally, I plan on doing and seeing as much as possible - which means for me the game will last much longer. I've seen video of people beating Oblivion is less than 10 hours, though, so I'm not too worried about the length of the game."
My plan too, I'm going to enjoy this one, I raced through the last one because I didn't know what to expect in terms of length (and I was a more... voracious game player back then) this one I'll take my time with. Slow down, smell the roses, kill the person who planted them if they don't meet with my diabolically exact requirements for rose placement, colour and fragrance, that kinda thing.
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fair enough...what you're saying is not necesarrily wrong, i too like Edge mag and think they do have much more robust scores than EG (number is not the be all and end all anyway) but i do also beleive that if LBP got an Edge 6 and an EG 10 you'd then be more into Eurogamers scores...i guess i'm being a bit accusatory and saying for you the platform is more the issue here (whilst saying that i'm not trying to pretend i don't favour Xbox because i absolutely do, but i do get irked when uber uber S fans like Hedbog and Smelly try to suggest they are Mr down the middle ground Tony Mott type characters, whilst making huge rants about the evil american empire)
@Bodybuilder - finally is not the correct term, this guy claims to have 7 breakages of his 360, he is the boy who cried wolf (yes i do beleive an Xb could get rrod that many times, but i don't beleive Smelly when he says his has)
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I've got lots of free time on my hands at the mo so this will help stop the boredom.
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"My plan too, I'm going to enjoy this one, I raced through the last one because I didn't know what to expect in terms of length (and I was a more... voracious game player back then) this one I'll take my time with. Slow down, smell the roses, kill the person who planted them if they don't meet with my diabolically exact requirements for rose placement, colour and fragrance, that kinda thing.
Ahhh, the immoral villain! I don't know which way I'm going to go. In one sense, I almost feel bad when I'm an evil jerk, but at the same time their appearance appeals to me much more! Maybe I can be like Batman: I hide in the shadows dressed in black, but am overall good to people.
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You must be pretty poor then. A blu-ray movie can cost up to £25 in retail and they only last an hour and a half. I go to a bar for a few hours and spend more than £40. How is £40 a lot for ten hours of entertainment? bloody peasant.
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"LAIR , Great graphics and EPIC FAIL!! "
Sorry but no, lair was anything but great graphics. It could have been a great game but the controls where fucked and the graphics where horribly outdated. Even the opening cutscene look void and empty, something they could have easily fixed with some avid editing.
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I really fancy getting Dead Space on Friday too. I'm kind of hoping Far Cry 2 will get an average review so I won't have to buy it on 360. Ah fuck it, there's going to be a few expensive Fridays to come over the next few weeks. If Far Cry 2 is an 8 or over, I'm having it.
So, this Friday it's going to be Fable 2, Dead Space and Far Cry 2 (perhaps). I
Well, that'll keep me busy for a week till Fallout 3. Then it's GOW etc...
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Very pleased for Lionhead and PM, knowing they had some sticks, which I myself also had belittled as thought was more style than substance.
As a serious gamer I m only so glad and happy to be proven wrong, I think an important point is made, not re visual fidelity or length of game but where the game is rewarding all the time, and can be both enjoyed by casual and hardcore gamer. BOTH getting a lot out of it and indeed as others said something you can get outwhat you put in.
If this is to be a model for more games in future, can be a good thing and for this, perhaps need to be considered as groundbreaking and an important landmark.
We all enjoy challenges, I gave up the ghost with FFXII after 90 hours in and still just grinding and lost enjoyment of the game. I want to play and have so much F U N at the same time!
Any serious gamer will be happy that such game is breaking waves and fair criticism needs to be made, so more polish can be given but fanboy hates for just the fact the game is appearing on rival console is so soul destroying!
Did not have this particular game previously on my radar, but now zoomed to the top of my list of must have!!
EDIT: Sorry corrected score from Edge!
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Oh, and as for some people saying its too short. I suspect a great deal more people will gain the valuable feeling of completing a quality game than would otherwise happen with an extremely long grind-fest. It's hard to get the balance right but people will finish it having had a great time, with great memoeries and come away wanting more and, should the team stay together, Fable III will deliver on that count.
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Ok...fair enough, an Edge magazine 9 suggests it's pretty much a must buy too though
personally i like both Edge and EG, but i am a little skeptical personally of your views because it does happen that LBP got an Edge 10, Fable an Edge 9, and it's the other way round here...it suits you're predisposition doesn't it?
if you add both sites socres up for each though...it's the same! and both are clearly rather good indeed (and british, which is Edge and Eurogamers one true weakness in this matter)
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Back to the review, really wasn't expecting a 10 from EG, a solid 9 perhaps.. It's obviously all good though, I've been looking forward to this game for bloody yonks, just wish I wasn't working Fri&Sat
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"Shame I don't have a 360"
Go buy one then. Easily worth it.
Um...WHAT?? Who in their right mind would get a RROD bomb waiting to happen who already has a Wolfdale with a 1TB hard drive? Besides, Molyneux the Mad already hinted that the PC version is coming. No need to throw away 150 bucks for a system that scratches your game discs!
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\o/
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are you for real, or being ironic
it's hard to tell these days
A Wolfdale! shit a brick, you must have 10 kilo balls if you're rocking a ....Wolfdale, those Alienware kids probably idolise you (p.s. that's all striaght respect not irony i think a Wolfdale with 1TB is the last word in gaming technology)
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Any mention of fixing the massive flaws of the first? In fact any mention of anything interesting other than "OMFG this game kisses your feet!!"? Nope and nope.
EDIT: Should mention that I've never really thought ill of the review scores here and largely come to this site cause they seem to be spot on but that was such a piss poor review its the first to make me think "hold the phone..."
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I hate work.
/reads comments
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Yeah, great score but only a two page review on a AAA title such as this? When was the last time that happened?
I'm gagging for more detail on this game and don't particularly want to have to go to other sites to get it ...
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As always there are people who complain about scores, 10/10 or a high score doesnt guarentee that its fantastic with all the people that buy it (look at the lashback on GTA - which i still dont fully understand), and the high score Spore got, well it should have been lower. I suspect if you really liked Fable 1 you will really like Fable 2. If you didnt like Fable 1, then i suspect a 10/10 isnt going to be the right score for that person. Scores are meant as an indication on how a game might be, but as always only once you play it will you know if you like it or not. So use your own judgement. Still to get a 10/10 on more than one site will mean it will generally meet a certain level of quality... which is always good.
Will have to wait until its available on the PC as dont have an xbox... but never got too far in 1, so will have to decide if its worth it.
Ps...As for iHuGi, stop being a childish muppet, every post from you is.. PS3 users are idiots etc etc.. You dont need to be an muppet just because an Xbox game scored well, most PS3 users really don't have a problem with the Xbox doing well, its the small number of fanboys like yourself that seem to cause all the trouble.
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A title that actually lives up to his promises.
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Well I assume that was 2 x 8-10 hour days by the reviewer so 15-20 hours maybe.
Miles better value than watching you're local footy team for two hours in the wind and cold rain for yer £40
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Fable 2 looks like a top game, but it it'd been on the PS3, it would have got 9/10 like LBP.
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This stood out for me. I don't like 'challenging' games at all and just want to have fun. I don't feel a sense of achievement on getting past a very hard part of any game, just head-shaking relief.
Sounds like Lionhead are onto something... "
+1
I gather that PM has been making 'casual convergence' noises recently and this may be an indicator of where he's coming from.
I love a challenge, to a point, but I love being able to explore and 'adventure' even more. Beating COD2 on Veteran scarred me for life!
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Bloody idiots!
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Great review. Seems like the guys at Lionhead made a great game which has left me more interested in it than ever.
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Eurogamer 10
OXM US: 9.5/10
Edge: 9/10
Gamezone German: 9.1
Videogamer.com 9
CVG 9.2
Consol.at 90%
Arstechnica: Verdict Buy
Gamepro Germany: 88%
RPG Site 9.6
OXM UK: 8/10
Kikizo: 9/10
Planet Xbox: 9.5/10
Daily Game: 7.8
Gamesradar: 9/10
IGN UK: 9.5/10
IGN 8.8
TXB 8.9
Planet X360 9.5
Current Average: 91% "
awesome, couldn't be a better average...
I'm sold on friday baby!!!
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But surely if EG were in MS's pockets they wouldn't have given LBP a 9/10 :/ Or Mario Galaxy a 10/10 :/, they'd give them scores that would actually put us guys off buying the games.In the grand scheme of things do you honestly believe EG scoring one game a 9/10 and another 10/10 will masively affect those poor bastards on the receiving end of the 9?
Naaaaa.
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1. I didnt say i'd buy it second hand from a game store.. i hate the 2nd hand market. I said i'd pick it up in a few weeks when the price has dropped.
2. Rental is better than buying 2nd hand, as rental stores pay more to be able to rent games/dvds/etc. So the developers get a cut
3. yes i do own a 360 and yes i've had 7 crap out on me. PM me for my live name if you dont believe me.. yours gets mine.
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Go Lionhead! Wooop.
Pat on the back for you and a biscuit for good measure.
Now if only Play sent it to me tomorrow...
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You apparently have not... they gave PS3 Bioshock a 10 just last week.
"Fable 2 looks like a top game, but it it'd been on the PS3, it would have got 9/10 like LBP. "
/Rolls into the bitter teenage emo tears of Vic
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Considering that the LBP guys are ex-lionhead, then that makes for a pretty decent lineage altogether.
Personally from what I've played on the beta of LBP I'm thinking that's a definitive 10/10. I'll probably try this and see if I like it also. Create is a killer to me though, but I've always had a weak spot for Molly and I welcome any return to form, however purile it may be.
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I'm not made, its just I saw this coming. I can easily afford a 360, but I'm surprised OXM magazine gave this 8/10?? Still seems like the 10's are being handed quite regularly nowadays on EG.
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Eurogamer... what a joke. lol
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I know there's a packed release schedule this time of the year, but releasing these products so close together doesn't seem particularly smart. "
I'm mad for Fable II and have no interest in Fallout 3 despite being an Oblivion nut - games chock-full-o-guns have zero interest for me ...
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Is it feasible to play this game through twice, once as good, once as evil and have the game be different enough the second time to warrant doing it?
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The 'innovation', as presented in the review, isn't that the game is 'easy', but that the challenge it provides derives from mastering your character, and that as such you can 'fail', and feel the consequences of your failure (in terms of the experience lost, the scars acquired) while still being able to progress though the game. In this way, the game's mechanics are not an impediment to the story it's trying to tell, so for example, the pacing isn't effected because you're dying repeatedly in a particular area. As it says in the review: "Following Fable II's path of least resistance leads you through an expertly paced trail of combat and quests, spectacle and challenge, with no roadblocks in between"
Now that doesn't mean that encounters aren't challenging, because as explained the player is still trying to avoid death, and indeed the review claims that the designers have instead been given the freedom to "string together truly mammoth battles".
So essentially (in the first page) the claims are that Fable 2 is perfectly paced, that the combat is deep and rewarding, without having to punish the player unduly, and that this takes place in a cohesive environment that gives the player plenty to do and discover, without the fear of getting lost or overwhelmed. How is that not a justification for the score given?
"For the rest the review is quite non-structured and just talks about how nice the world is and how relaxing. Never, ever in the review text I read WHY this 10 is actually justified. The things that Fable II apparently does well in Eurogamer's opinion, A LOT of games do well but don't get a 10 for it. "
The rest of the review praises the execution of the story and the subtlety of the moral choices it requires the player make (how many games make moral choices meaningful?), the intelligence and expressiveness of the dog (how often do we see realistic animal companions?) and the effect the player's choices have on his appearance (name an RPG that does this better).
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\o/"
Treat yourself
[link url=http://ww w.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/7785879/Xbox-360-Elite-Console-+ -Fallout-3-+-Fable-II/Product.html
]http://ww w.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/778...[/link]
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Fable 2 looks like a top game, but it it'd been on the PS3, it would have got 9/10 like LBP. "
Yeah probably but it probably wouldn't have been as good on the PS3 would it?!
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"The 'innovation', as presented in the review, isn't that the game is 'easy', but that the challenge it provides derives from mastering your character, and that as such you can 'fail', and feel the consequences of your failure (in terms of the experience lost, the scars acquired) while still being able to progress though the game. In this way, the game's mechanics are not an impediment to the story it's trying to tell, so for example, the pacing isn't effected because you're dying repeatedly in a particular area. As it says in the review: "Following Fable II's path of least resistance leads you through an expertly paced trail of combat and quests, spectacle and challenge, with no roadblocks in between"
-----
Although I've already pre-ordered this I have to say that first page made me feel distinctly bemused - That just really doesn't sound appealing to me at all...
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Don't ever really understand the complaints on scoring - I think you need to allow at least +/- 2 for personal taste
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People forget that Bioshock for the PS3 got a 10/10 just last week, but EG is MS biased? Good grief...
"Can people please stop saying that no death, no game over, no punishment are good ideas... christ someone might actual think the ARE!"
Depends on the game, but I don't know if I could disagree more. In the old days, you had "x" number of lives and that's it. Run out and start from the beginning. Say you're on level 99 of 100, it took you 17 hours to get there, and you run out of lives - are you going to play that game again? I wouldn't.
Now take today's games like COD4, etc., which in certain sections is basically trial and error, where by dying you're affected in being thrown back to some arbitrary "point" that's been pre-selected for you. Is there REALLY a difference between that and Fable? There's no consequence for dying in an FPS...you can just replay it over and over and over and over and over again until you get it right, which doesn't cause a player to really think about his actions until he's so frustrated with being killed that he has no other choice.
I think the way death is handled in Fable II seems appropriate for the type of game it is. I wouldn't want the same from an FPS, but that system could do with a changing. Think about a game like Oblivion, which only penalizes your death by causing you to load a saved game...which isn't much of a penalty at all, and perhaps even less of one than Fable's.
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"oooh.. NO WAY am i spending 10 quid on a game which only lasts 4 or 5 hours!"
- But yet no-one (apart from me it seems) moans about spending 40 quid on a game which lasts 10.
(Getting the 10 hr information from a previous article on EG and IGN review.. which gave it 8.8 btw)
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Eurogamer... what a joke. lol "
Oke, don't let the door slam you on the way out Mr. "I didn't play the game but I'm qualified to judge the game nonetheless" stupid.
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Please give Fallout 3 a bad score so that I don't feel compelled to buy it and hurt my credit card any further
kthxbye
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An opinion about a subjective thing that is carried by a large majority can be considered fact. I.e. Victory boogie woogie is by most people considered a masterpiece. Even though art critics have many systems for ascertaining what is good and what is not, it is all cultural and subjective. At this point in time, in this place the painting is however still a masterpiece and that can be considered as a fact.
The vast majority of the people that actually played bioshock think that it is an awesome game.
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Is there a sniff of "Zelda for adults" about this game?
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I hope you're proud of yourself...
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Always an attention-grabbing score, but not something I'm personally going to get too worked up about after being stung by inflated expectations of Bioshock and GTA IV.
I'm not saying this isn't worth 10/10 - I really hope it is - but recently I've found EG to be a bit slap-happy with the 9s and 10s and now I'm a teeny bit sceptical as a result.
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Is 8.8 not a good score? To me if its the type of game I would like to play then anything over 8 is fine (I am expecting Fallout 3 to be an 8 when its reviewed, but will still get it).
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Please give Fallout 3 a bad score so that I don't feel compelled to buy it and hurt my credit card any further
kthxbye "
And mirrors edge too.
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Nuff' Said
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Nuff' Said
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Nuff' Said "
I've not played either.. but LBP *looks* like the sort of game you'll be playing in a years time.. this doesnt.
(and no - i dont own a ps3)
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No, not really. I think that the people who didn't find it an awesome game are a vocal minority that spends too much time moaning on websites whether a score should be a 9 instead of a 10.
"The reality is that none of the 10/10's this site has handed out over the last couple of years have been to games that without flaw"
No game, book, film, painting or anything ever created is without flaw. The grade is relative. For what it was at the time, it most certainly was among the best of the time in the shops and the 10/10 was perfectly warranted.
", the claims of bias have arisen because sometimes EG's reviewers seem to be able to overlook these issues - or at least not mark down because of them- and sometimes not."
Bias? Bias to what? Because YOU disagree with a score there obviously is bias? Paranoid much?
"The problem is that time and again it seems big PS3 games seem to get marked more stringently than their 360 equivalents. And if you care to look at the metacritic/gameranking averages, thats factually demonstrable."
A) wtf cares (no I don't care to look). They are all high scores. B) So that couldn't be down to ps3 ports of games suffering from structural problems? C) Games should be rated what they are worth, is there no other conclusion that you can draw than bias when console A structurally gets better reviews than console B?
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Ah well...
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In many ways this sounds like a role-player's wet dream. Not in the "just ten more Skeletal Rat Zombie Mage Demon Champions to kill before I ascend to Level 5, for +2 to my Fucking Giant Sword combat specialization and a new Thermonuclear Blast spell" sense, but more in terms of going out into the world with no idea, and no way to guess, what might happen as a result of your actions. Rather like life, in many ways.
Now, that's role-playing. I defy you to disagree.
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Have you heard me made claims of judgement on this game yet? From what I've heard, it will be great. If it's just like Fable one, it will be great. I will play the game and then make up my own mind tyvm (I've stopped trusting reviews ages ago).
Claiming however that there is obvious bias when you've not even so much as touched a game is beyond stupid however. Defending such stupidity with a post that reflects the comment while it makes no sense in the reflected context is even worse.
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It depends though, if you have agreed with that journos reviews in the past and trust that their tastes are similar to your own then I can understand people buying on the strength of a review by said journo. For instance, I know that Krudster has a similar taste in games to myself (judging by his past reviews), if he gives a game a 10, it's *extremely* likely that I'll also love it, Shinji on the other hand seems to really enjoy (and rate highly) games that I despise.
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Edge=10
Eurogamer= overated
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Actually quite an interesting list that, thanks.
To be honest, apart from a few 10/10's or 5/10's that came from left-field (Rez HD? Seriously?), EG's scores match up with Gameranking's...give or take 10% or so. Puts paid to any theory of bias in my eyes.
If anything, the only thing this proves is that the 360 has better games.
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"Edge=10"
Actually, EDGE gave it a 9.
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Apart from Wipeout, Siren and Super Stardust, you mean?
That's 3 out of the 20, which isn't too shabby really. Sorry, but I think this one backfired on you a bit. It's interesting to look at the figures, but it doesn't really prove what you wanted.
The only distressing thing in my eyes is the number of 10/10's on there.
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Well done and many thanks to Arbiter for illustrating so powerfully clear, the false MYTH that EG scores are so outside of average and THUS being so biased! Cough Cough, say no more.
The list does seem to look like X360 have more higher scoring games, but that is from everyone and not just EG. I think fans see what they want to see but please look and ask yourself does the lists indicate that EG is guilty as charged for being iin MS pocket?
This particular jury who owns all consoles and play all games with equal enjoyment irrespective of the platform, cast my vote as na not guilty!
Apololol: Never gonna change your tune are you? Hope you feel happy getting your pented up view off your chest and show the world how evil MS and EG are, and go in peace mate!
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5 out of the 20 X360 examples (25% of my little sample) scored higher on EG than their rounded-up gamerankings average."
Four of those were 10/10s though, so I think as you expand the sample the disparity will get smaller. I mean, 9 360 titles were given below average scores and 11 were given average or above average scores, while the numbers for the PS3 are 10 and 10 respectively.
Averaging everything out, the mean Gamerankings score for a PS3 title is 81%, while the mean Eurogamer score is 75%. On the other hand the mean Gamerankings score for a 360 title is 85%, while the mean Eurogamer score is 80%. So Eurogamer score PS3 titles on average 6% lower, and 360 titles on average 5% lower. Is that a big difference?
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At some point, you'll want a job. There are some painstakingly pedantic offerings. Be a bartender, a blacksmith or a woodcutter if you want to play some very bland mini-games. A blacksmith, for example, must hit the A button when a dial crosses the green section of a meter. Get several successful hits and you've made a sword and earned a few gold coins. Keep doing this again and again and again. Eventually you'll make some serious cash. But it's not very exciting. The other jobs are more or less the same idea.
For a game world that is often dark and depressed, this clownish behavior doesn't fit. Aside from looking out of place, social interactions in Fable II are completely artificial. You're not playing a role when socializing. You are merely choosing expressions to manipulate various meters so you get the reaction you want from an NPC. If you had to discern a person's likes or dislikes and their feelings towards you from visual clues, that would have worked. Instead, you can access the likes and dislikes of anyone you meet via a menu, making it the entire process feel disingenuous.
Combat is a lot of fun, despite two deficiencies: It's far too easy and there is very little variety in the enemies you battle. Lionhead made the decision that the hero can never die. I actually agree with that. In many ways, death is an antiquated idea in videogames. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be challenged. And with the exception of a single battle in Fable II, I never felt challenged. I was only "knocked out" once -- and that was on purpose, so I could see what happens. Lose all your health and you get knocked down, costing you all uncollected experience and earning you a few scars. Within seconds you are back on your feet fighting again. Defeat just isn't punishing enough.
Couch co-op has a number of flaws. The game is set in the world of the host, with the other character joining as a henchman. Here's the catch: A henchman brings with them all their experience and skills but none of their weapons or their character model. The henchman must play with a preset character design. Another issue is the camera. It is limited in how it can be manipulated and because of having two heroes on screen, is pulled back too far. You also won't get the benefit of being able to zoom into with your gun. And no, you cannot fight your friend.
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Guess we should have listened to UncyLou.
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"LBP 95% (9)
GT5p 80% (8)
Notorstorm 83% (8)
Motorstorm 2 75% (7)
MGS4 93 % (8)
Haze 57% (4)
Lair 56% (4)
PXJ Eden 80% (7)
Folklore 76% (5)
Wipeout HD 88% (9)
Uncharted 90% (9)
R&C tools of destruction 89% (8)
R&C Quest for Booty 78% (7)
Buzz: Quiz TV 81% (8)
Singstar 83% (8)
Echochrome 82% (7)
PXJ Monsters 84% (8)
Siren: Blood Curse 78% (8)
Warhawk 84% (8)
Super Stardust HD 86% (9)
Castle Crashers 82% (8)
Braid 92% (10)
Halo 3 93% (10)
Ninja Gaiden 2 82% (7)
viva pinyata 83% (8)
Mass Effect 91% (8)
REz HD 89% (10)
Fable 2 93% (10)
Lost Odyssey 79% (8)
Blue Dragon 78% (5)
Infinite Undiscovery 70% (5)
Geometry Wars 2 90% (9)
Condemned 82% (7)
Gotham 3 89% (8)
Gotham 4 86% (9)
Kameo 81% (5)
Gears of War 94% (8)
Ace Combat 6 82% (8)
Saints Row 82% (7)
Crackdown 83% (9) "
My maths could well be wrong on this, but combining the total discrepancy between Eurogamer and Gamerankings scores, the difference seems to be that PS3 games score 12.8 less in total, and 360 games score 11.1 less in total. For 20 games a piece that works out as an average discrepancy of -0.64 of a mark for PS3 games and -0.55 of a mark for 360 games. On average then, given Arbiter's (allegedly random) selection of games the 360 scores 0.1 points (rounded up) more than than the PS3 compared to other sites, across 20 games. OMG - teh bias.
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Oh. If you're rounding it up to the nearest 10 that might be true (88 is still an integer), but nevertheless Eurogamer still marked those games higher than the Gamerankings average so it's a bit unfair to claim bias over a few percent.
Yes, I'd agree they've been a bit overzealous with the hype surrounding a few select 360 titles, but I think that's more coincidence than it is bias.
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Now, compare that to IGN's straight 100's for MGS4. Yes indeed, their scale has in fact a resolution of ONE HUNDERED. And they have SIX fucking subscores. And they award 100/100 on every one. THAT, my ladies and gentlement, is something that warrants suspicion. No, I have no doubt at all that MGS4 is a great game. But unlike a single 10/10 score, straight 100's over 6 subscores is very much fucking inconceivable, and reeks of sheisse critical journalism. Yes-sireey.
I've stopped reading sites like IGN and Gamespot all together, they've showed they're not serious and that their opinion isn't worth a damn. But it really bugs me they probably is making shitload's of money off it...
And yes, if you ask me, SR2 is very much worth a 9. It's pure fun, sort of like GTA used to be.
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Still think eurogamers reviews are paid for but glad to see that its improved on the first game.
If you dont think money exchanges hands between publishers and journalists then you need to speak to a mate of mine who works for the times.
Any site that has an advert up for a game is paid for.
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Then again after GTA4 - A 10 from EG is a blur between truly great, or a free Merc.
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Any reason I should?
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PERFECT!
Fable: "Go go home and be a family man!"
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You've got time on your hands. Maybe you should spend it playing the games you argue so much about.
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I purchased this game while reading the review XD
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I'll play it on hard though judging from the review.
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I'm sure that he will care. Such posts make YOU sound like an utter and jealous twat.
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but in the face of accusations of bias and favouritism...it could just be (this may be controversial), but it might just be that its actually a good game and so deserves a high score...its getting good scores across the reviewr sites..or is everybody else wrong as well?
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You're ruining it for the kids.
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They are about MGS4 apparently
I had the impression that EG were sometimes harsher on PS3 exclusives - but Arbiters list has confirmed it - they aren't. There we go - thanks Arbiter!
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I'm a huge Fable fan, have been awaiting this game for years!
The only downside now is that I pre-ordered online with GAME and may not receive my copy in time. I need to go out and see if there are any spare CE's left in store, otherwise I'll end up with two copies of the game at this rate! Although, my student loan finally paid in this morning, so it's not like I can't afford it for the time being!
I am SO excited though.
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So in their eyes, Fable II is a just above average game, one that other sites like EG et al would give 6/10 to... :?
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That couple of percent difference really proved your point there Arbiter. Well done.
Now if you don't mind could you change the record? Or will you now continue to release 'updates' to your list every time EG score a 360 game?
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For the sake of people like you I think sites like EG should do away with scores completely (go on, EG, I dare you!) so people take more notice of the actual review itself, which sums up the game's good and bad points leaving you to judge whether the game is worth buying or not. Review scores are really pointless... it's just a rough guide to how good or bad the reviewer thinks the game is, it is not meant to be scientifically accurate! A game getting 10 does not mean that YOU will like it, just as a game getting 6 or 7 doesn't mean you won't!!! Read the reviews, dammit!
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Eurogamer are far more reliable. After this 10/10 im getting it ASAP. It looked amazing as it was and this just drives it home for me.
The PS3 fanboy trolls need to just f off, you're looking pathetic now. So what, the Xbox 360 got YET ANOTHER AAA title, get over it.
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Eurogamer had Ninja Gaiden 2 advertising on the site for ages and only scored that game 7/10. Not exactly a score that's gonna shift bucket loads of games... just saying is all.
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Eurogamer are far more reliable. After this 10/10 im getting it ASAP. It looked amazing as it was and this just drives it home for me."
So IGN don't match your opinion while EG do. Says nothing about one being better than the other in the metaphysical sense. Like others (and myself) have pointed out many times, both in this thread and in others, review scores have nothing to do with science and their only use is flamewar bait for the fanboys.
If the reviewer in this case hadn't liked the elements of the game as much as you like them and thus had given a lower rating, would that have meant that the game would be worse for you?! If you feel the need to base your opinions on those of others, I think that's sad*.
* Which of course shouldn't bother you as it's just my opinion...
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Smelly on the very next page- ''sigh.. lots of idiots who cant read again i see. I didnt say i'd buy it second hand from a game store.. i hate the 2nd hand market. I said i'd pick it up in a few weeks when the price has dropped.''
Sooo mental he can't remember what he wrote just a few hours before. Good God.
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What is throwing everyone is that EG has given some real crap (SR2 perfect example) high scores. Seemingly randomly. Halo 3 was pretty horrid, I much preferred 1. Hell even 2 seemed to play better, not including the arbiter bits.
At least with something like EDGE, they canvas their review staff to try and get an average.
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They just rate good games when they deserve it. Great stuff."
That conclusion is not supported by the data TBH. All that Arbiter's data shows is that, in this small sample (which might not even be statistically relevant but let's assume it is) that EG's opinion of games for 360 and PS3 is generally in line with that of other professional reviewers. This doesn't mean that professional reviewers don't have platform bias for example.
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As for:
"So I "owned" myself by not rigging the test? Oh shit! Next time I'll lie in order to prove my point because it means soooo much to me!"
What's rigging the test got to do with ANYTHING? Did I or anyone else say or accuse you of that?
"But seriously, what did you expect - a smoking gun? There's plenty of food for thought based on that little list, but what you can't do is expect something as moronically obvious as "proof of teh bias".
God-damn you're so thick... "
You mentioned on a number of posts that you thought the scores showed that EG are biased towards 360 games. They don't, by and serious degree, and THAT's what I was LOLing about. If you now want to change your stance and say that you posted those figures just for the hell of it, be my guest. I don't think there's anything 'thick' about the conclusions I've made from reading your posts.
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I don't recall any review of the game stating it's only 10 hours. Most people who've played it already said that it lasted them around 20 hours, but that was avoiding almost all of the side quests, demon doors, family things, jobs, etc. He said he was very poor at the end, and didn't even own any land/buildings and that it would be well worth playing through multiple times to see how things change.
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At least with something like EDGE, they canvas their review staff to try and get an average. "
Indeed.. oh wait.. EDGE gave Halo 3 a 10?
You emo whiners have so many holes in your "arguments" it is a sad sight to behold. Go and cry on your own somewhere. We DO NOT care.
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But seriously, what did you expect - a smoking gun? There's plenty of food for thought based on that little list,
Eh? So you call a discrepancy of 0.1 point (between EG and other sites based on 20 game reviews) 'plenty of food for thought'? LOL. There's nothing in it, Arbiter. Let it go.
what you can't do is expect something as moronically obvious as "proof of teh bias"
If you can't "prove teh bias" then why are wasting your life compiling meaningless lists in an attempt to do just that? ...Bit of a silly sausage, aren't you sonny. Listen here, you ever heard the saying 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'? I think it's about time you went down to your local game store and traded in that PS3 for a 360, then look yourself in the mirror and shout "slap my arse and call me an XBOT" five times over. You'll feel better, that malevolent jealousy will subside and you'll realise that life can be so much more than the SDF fanboy existence you've had to suffer all these years.
@captainrentboy
Smelly always does that, he's admitted on many occasions that he suffers with alcoholism so I guess that's why he's such a prick most of the time.
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(Still grumpy at the 'no PC versions due to piracy' standpoint of some publishers.)
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23-Sep-08 09:24:46
Another headline spun so heavily in Microsoft's favour its basically an advertisement. How Eurogamer... "
"Arbiter
03 Oct '08 09:56:57
....
Is it so hard to understand that if you tolerate partisan, skewed reporting just because the bias shown suits you at the time, sooner or later the shoe is going to be on the other foot? Same with putting up with RRoD because you like "sticking it" to the man, err Sony."
"Arbiter
04-Jul-08 10:03:47
Congratualations on a what is undoubtedly a new low for this site, that genuinely read like an Xbox fanboy post. "
"Arbiter
11-Aug-08 01:54:24
@GrantM
That's about the size of it.
It's kind of like evil megacorporation x-factor. Some of the kids are rooting for Microsoft, some for Sony. (Nintendo fanboys seem to be sitting this one out, because they know they've won already! lol)
The most depressing thing is the way this site encourages this sillyness with its red-top brand of reporting. "
"Arbiter
08-May-08 16:20:19
Its extremely dishonest in my opinion the way that the comparison just fobs off the impact of vsync on the average fps. Seems to be a case of the observed result pandering to the prejudices* of the author, and so a very significant caveat to the result is discarded.
*Sorry, there is a clear pro-360 bias to the piece, its exemplified by statements like "Technically speaking, Xbox 360 really should be winning this contest hands-down". Its very disappointing to be honest. "
You can play semantics all day long but the fact is that you are consistently mentioning bias or implying bias of this site. BUT NOW, you're just doing us all a favour and showing that EG are NOT biased - Quote: "ergo no Bias" - but have a more "stringent attitude to PS3 reviews".
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21-Oct-08 12:16:37
And it will be shit.
Just like Halo 3 was.
Eur360mer is now being deleted from my favourites. "
Thank fuck for that you tedious little c*nt.
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Also Arbiter, Metacritic would be a useful to compare against if it was made up of 20 or so of the top UK/US websites, unfortunately it seems open to all sorts of crap and fans sites and also the top foreign scores get cherry picked from obscure websites or official magazines. Its not a fair comparison, as Playstation has more fan sites and more foreign coverage.
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OMFG, really? Quick, someone tell Rauper, I bet he'll be well upset about that, he may even shed a tear, he'll probably send you an apology written in blood 'n' stuff, innit.
lol, fool.
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Nothing to do with conspiracies just about not being naive. Even if EG were one of the most reputable websites (don't say they are, don't say they aren't) that still doesn't say much given the general lack of reputability from any commercial source.
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PS3 - Full Price Retail
Uncharted 9 (9) --
Buzz: Quiz TV 8 (8)--
Everybody's Golf 8 (8)--
Singstar 8 (8)--
Motorstorm 8 (8)--
------------------------
LBP 10 (9) -1 (to date)
Eye Of Judgement 8 (7) -1
Motorstorm 2 8 (7) -1 (to date)
R&C T.O.D 9 (8) -1
Heavenly Sword 8 (7) -1
MGS4 9 (8) - 1
Haze 6 (4) -2
Lair 6 (4) -2
Folklore 8 (5) -3
X360 Full Price Retail
Fable 2 9 (10) +1 (to date)
Halo 3 9 (10) +1
Crackdown 8 (9) +1
Gotham 4 9 (9) --
Lost Odyssey 8 (8) --
Ace Combat 6 8 (8) --
Viva Pinata 8 (8) --
--------------------------------------------------------
Gotham 3 9 (8) -1
Mass Effect 9 (8) -1
Ninja Gaiden 2 8 (7) -1
Condemned 8 (7) -1
Saints Row 8 (7) -1
Gears of War 9 (8) -1
Infinite Undiscovery 7 (5) -2
Blue Dragon 8 (5) -2
Kameo 8 (5) -3
This to me isn't a particularly statistically interesting list. On this list there are a number of games on both platforms, most of which score equal to or less than average, with 3 xbox games coming out above average. Very little there to draw conclusions from. One thing I did notice is that the biggest discrepancies have a slight tendency to be with games that were low rated on average, since Eurogamer is more likely to use the whole 10 scale than most review sites. With the better games, there an extremely high level of agreement with general concensus to within a point on both systems.
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I wish someone would do the same to the "unflappable" Les who is the most condescending muppet head on Eurogamer.
He has had me on ignore since forever cause he can't handle my remarks to his "know-it-all" ramblings
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*May not be true...but probably is.
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@Kryon
Ouch! lol
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21-Oct-08 11:52:46
Arbiterlol"
lol, +1. Spot on. Arbiter, seriously, stop whinging about this bloody mythical bias and play some games, it really is more fun. Unless you take EG's scores to heart so much you can't play MGS4 without seeing 8/10 flashing before your eyes! That may actually be true...
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you're saying this game got a 10/10 because the devs paid EG off. Why does their have to always be a conspiracy? I thought the review was as informative as need be and nicely written. Besides, I don't really see how this is an 'early' review, the game's out in a few days and I'm sure EG have had their copy for a while now.
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EG reviewed it now as people want to check review before they make a purchase - just in case it turns out to be terrible, as the fans were surely buying it anyway. Which, again, can't be taken as the gospel that many take it as, it is just one person's opinion. Then it is only meant as a guide. If EG waited until the online patch for the co-op, then the review would have arrived too late, so they made a good desicion in my book.
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umm, an early review is a review before the game is released. also considering that there are only 3-5 other reviews out there, it's pretty safe to call this an early one. and if you actually thought that was a nice, informative review then... well all i can say is that i never thought i'd meet a website fanboy.
@ miiiguel
my problem isn't with the 10. its with the bad review itself. i would love for Fable 2 to be an awesome game, in fact i'm still hoping it is. but a random 10 is just bad journalism. when eurogamer published their MGS4 review, i also thought it sucked. didn't really mind about the 8 since it was a little out there.
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As for me being an EG fanboy, well, it is my favourite gaming site, so I guess you can call me that if it turns you on.
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Then again, it had better not get an 8 or a 9, I'll go fucking mental y'hear. If there's one thing I need to get enjoyment from my games it's knowing that everyone who reviews it agrees with my views to the letter.
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@crazymonkey66
Huh?? There are 15 reviews posted on GameRankings of Fable 2 already.
It would help if you whiners did some checking beforehand.
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but i think we should examine a more serious issue here. kryon actually went and checked my profile to find out "dirt" he could use. that just makes me so sad. who the hell wastes their life actually caring about arguments like these. kryon, you're actually starting to depress me.
i just want to say that again if fable 2 is a 10/10 game, no will be happier than me. i just expect eurogame, whose reviews i've generally found very good (apart from a few completely dropped balls. don't get me started on Planescape: Torment) to keep their standards up. their reviews used to be some of the best written out there. now they're still well written, but the early reviews say nothing.
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my bad. i usually use metacritic and there were only 3 reviews there. i figured there were probably a couple of magazines so i went with 5. i haven't checked other gaming sites in a while, so i didn't realize that ign and gamespot had a review up. still pretty sure this one was up before those though.
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@crazymonkey66
Again...huh??
You were talking shit and Kryon went to your profile to see why you were talking shit. He didn't waste his life away.
It only took one click to find out you're a dick...oops sorry
Most of the reviews were posted on 10/20, crazymonkey66, a day before EG's
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how exactly was i talking "shit". unless all of you really believe that this was an good, informative review. i just checked out the ign one and while it seems like a middle schooler wrote it, at least it says something.
about the wasting away life thing. maybe it didn't take him too long to do it but the thought of someone actually thinking it through and being willing to do it scares me just a little.
hmm, maybe i am a dick.
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Seriously, don't upset yourself, I only had to click my left mouse button on your name, it really wasn't that hard or time consuming, so there's no need for your concern. I'll tell you what is a bit sad though, people who get upset by a review score and claim it's obviously due to a pay off or bias.
Eidt - "the thought of someone actually thinking it through and being willing to do it"
Glol, dude, it's a click of the mouse, you make it sound like I set up some elaborate plot to steal your identity and besmirch your name while violating your pet hamster.
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i am not bad at the score. What i am mad at is the bad review and the fact that it doesn't say anything. I guess this does make me annoyed with the score since the bad review makes it look like it was slapped on randomly. I'm not going to bother to present my gamer credential but like i said before, i am really looking forward to Fable 2. my copy's hopefully arriving within the week. But that doesn't mean i can't object to bad journalism.
Edit-
Glol, dude, it's a click of the mouse, you make it sound like I set up some elaborate plot to steal your identity and besmirch your name while violating your pet hamster.
Maybe i didn't phrase this properly. I was talking about the fact that you even bothered thinking about actually checking my profile. Pretty basic psychology - willingness to do something implies that there already existed a mental framework for it.
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OK, fairplay mate. If you had just said "I personally thought that was a poorly written review" then I wouldn't have even commented on it.
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no worries (greatest phrase ever invented). maybe i came of too strong. still hoping fable 2 is pure awesomeness.
Just wait until Fallout 3.
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/shamelessly stolen from kotaku
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You think EG rates 360 games higher than PS3 games. Bias, more stringent, whatever you want to call it. That's a FACT.
That makes you either completely fucking wrong (using your own stats and many people ripping the shit out of your data), or at the very least completely fucking PETTY given how small the discrepancy is.
As for your brilliant backing up of your arguments regarding my little 'History of Arbiter', that was done purely to show that you DON'T FUCKING STOP WHINING ABOUT TEH BIAS. I couldn't give a rats arse about which one's you're 'right' about, the fact remains you talk about EG being biased an awful lot. You've now brought the bias argument into the fable 2 review so I felt it was entirely relevant, although you have since decided to water it down slightly after your self owning.
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You chose the list. A fairly obvious PS3 game to include would have been Wipeout HD, IMO...
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@Stoatboy
So true...but if he had added Wipeout HD, it would partially negate his bias argument since EG's score is 3 points higher than the met-average of Wipeout HD
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Join the all star cast in this homosexual hot bed of a rick rolling adventure -
The Man Who PWNED Himself
In theatres this fall - Certificate 12A
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It's positively flapping at the moment.
I don't think your job is done here at all...
... you need to moan about EG being biased for at least another 2 years like fucking stuck record.
EDIT: You're your you're aarrrgggh can't believe i did that.
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/puts on asbestos coat
Conspiracy theory! Whole industry must be biased!
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He's still right though!
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I must admit, EG has been kinda dull since our last clown (Apologie) died. I'ts good to know that there will always be a replacement, kinda like Bond or DrWho, except Arbiter uses words like "toodles" , is less entertaining and is a lot more feminine.
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Evidently plenty of people still read my stuff, yourself included champ. Much like Dizzy although you decry my opinions YOU JUST CANT HELP but respond to them.
- If people CAN'T HELP but call you a cunt - That doesn't make you special...that makes you the biggest cunt
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If you are all arguing over the review score I'm going to set fire to something.
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Translates to -
Please, give me some attention, please, oh please, just a little bit of recognition, I know you'll never like me but at least if you hate me I know you have some feeling for me, I just want to be noticed Waaah! ;_;
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I'll try.
Arbiter is claiming that EG is biased against Sony and scores MS exclusives more generously because of said bias. We are making fun of him and calling him a nancy boy. That's about it.
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Of course the whole industry is biased as everyone is biased.
Furthermore, it would be more surprising if the average video game journalist didn't show a bias towards 360 as the video game journalist is part of the target demographic of the system. This should be pretty obvious from Wii critical vs. market success.
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TBH I find the current discussion more comforting that the mindless agreement with a review score none of the contributors could say anything about from personal experience...
Mindless disagreement at least has the theoretical possibility of advancing discussion, mindless agreement does not.
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Hehe, thanks. I like accusations of bias. They are funny. I'm confused though, I thought EG were biased against MS... or was that last week?
Didn't EG give LBP 9/10 recently? Which is only 1 point less. So really, this IS a pointless argument about minute differences between subject review scores.
/gets matches
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Like I said before (so you should have known better) you can't logically conclude from the data (or any metacritic sample for that matter) that EG are not biased towards 360. There's always the possibility that video game journalists in general tend to overrate 360 games and under-appreciate PS3 and Wii games (or overrate 360 and PS3 games and underrate Wii games or any other configuration). Not saying they do, not saying they don't, just saying your conclusion is unfounded.
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I've decided to rent it this weekend to formulate my own view on it.
.. I dont trust EG reviews when there's a full page ad on the site...
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Good.
".. I dont trust EG reviews when there's a full page ad on the site... "
Bad.
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I'm only responding as I saw something aimed at me. The others may read your comments, just to de-bunk it and make you look like an idiot - quite rightly too. I did not however, I can't really be bothered to entertain you normally, nor do I have the time - or feel your argument is even worth the time! - you always write the same old tired arguments, it only takes about 2 seconds to identify the word 'bias' littlered throughout your post, and I simply move on. Neither am I entertaining your 'theories' now btw, just making sure you know that I don't, or even need to, read your posts, thankyouverymuch.
I try my best to ignore all raving, foaming fanboys as much as possible. Sometimes though I admit, it does become more difficult to bite one's tongue, therefore my earlier comment.
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No...no that is not possible. There's no way in hell any library can be better than the PS3's.
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You must not trust a single one of their reviews then?
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wanna pay for eurogamer then?
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Great job and please you ignorant gaming freaks, keep spamming this thread. It's always fun.
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We're on an internet comments section so you're not talking to anyone. If you wanna be a dick I'm happy to return the favour.
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@Les
Here's the omnipresent, omnipotent Les giving us all his condescending lecture again.....yawn!
Maybe people are critical of the Wii because they have no fucking decent games to showcase this holiday season, Les, regardless of its market success.
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360 EXCLUSIVE GETS 10/10!!!!
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Impressions so far: pretty.
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And I really don't think that a professional journalist is going to score a game lower/higher because of being a fanboy, most people grow out of that a long time before adulthood.
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If so I would say you have given people the idea of "ill miss thanks", I love the eurogamer site but they need to sort out the reviews on this site they are fast becoming a place people go if they can not find a good review elsewhere.
I have fable and farcry btw both on 360 and farcy is an experience worth 9/10 From the 10 hours I have plaed of fable its an 8/10 from the 6 or so hours i have put in.
Also in the farcry review did they mention that the farcry game is between 50-86 hours long?
Just find it strange that they score some games so poorly, and everything with a Microsoft stamp on gets pushedso highly.
Then again all sites have certain developers or affiliates that they are "partial" to giving a good score etc, politics ruins this industry.
Myself and most of my mates that already have these games all agree Far cry is the better title if you need to have one, bare in mind that this is subjective so make your own choices and enjoy either game they are both very good.
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Hedbog.
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u r a punk, a fake a p**sy a hater, just because ur shitty game didn't get a 10 doesn't mean M$ exclusives can't get it. So far M$ is showing great work with exlcusives and even with 3th party games...so f**ck off Loser!
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YES
who thinks that If I SAY I'm not biased, that I actually am not
YES
'crying' about spilled milk/game reviews
OHH YES
I'm also so clever that I think I am above it all and make snide comments about other people i tis thread yet cant take it when others do the same to me!
YES
...There was actually some sense in that...the only thing you forgot was that you're a sad cunt who spends lots of time in a review thread for an exclusive on a console he hates....and that you have a shrunken penis and it makes you angry
I don't mean to stoop to your level of hurling playground insults around, but you really are a fucking cretin
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Its hard to bite the hand that feeds u...
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For gods sake will you just go away!
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Why do assume that just because someone finds your constant stream of soul destroying bullshit annoying they must be an xbot? I happen to just enjoy video games and I enjoy them regardless of the system they appear on as do a fair few others who frequent this site. Also you label anyone who doesn’t agree with you an xbot which is rich when you are without a doubt one of the biggest fanboys on this site. Why do you feel the need to spout your pro Sony propaganda in nearly every comment thread on a website you clearly dislike? I realise you are on some sort of misguided crusade to expose EG and its readership as an xbox worshiping cult but for love of god take a day off every once in a while and enjoy some video games!
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well said Kryon.
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And his little big thoughts : "i hate 360 but i hate more ps3 for not getting games with score 10/10"
shame on you!
nway this article is about fable 2 which is a fantastic game, i'll recommend everyone to get a copy, is simply endless, well till now!
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Yeah, I was a bit hesitant at first, who knows, even idiots might say something useful once in a while. But now I have a very, very long list, adding to it every day and it actually makes the comments section better for all of us I guess, preventing fanboy flame wars from spinning out of control. At least I don't have to see the angry boys, I spare internet bandwith by reacting to the angry boys and I won't bother other guests with useless discussions with people beyond reason, though I probably do miss the occasional laugh when hedbog, Apologie, Kryon and TRUTH, c.s. spout some new crap.
Though if Kryon c.s. even take offense at my posts in this thread they're even more thick than I imagined. What is offensive about:
1) Commenting that Fable 2 reads like a very good game based on the review text
2) Pointing out that collectively celebrating a 10 without playing the game is about as stupid as arguing over review scores and intellectually even more fruitless
3) Addressing people's wrong conclusions based on a data set
4) Pointing out that it's very unlikely that a site like EG wouldn't be biased (consciously or not) towards a console aimed at hardcore gamers. EG staff are hardcore gamers, their readership consists of hardcore gamers. Do the math. Is there anything wrong with that (and with "that" I mean the bias, not the argument)? No, of course not.
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/ backs out slowly thinking "So what exactly is all the fuss with these Fable games?" and contemplates purchasing F1 and 2 for a look
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Yeah but you're my bitch so obviously you would say that.
"Eur360mer is now being deleted from my favourites. "
Kthxby! Hope to never see you again. (but you are expected to be back in here moaning within the hour)
"He has had me on ignore since forever cause he can't handle my remarks to his "know-it-all" ramblings
/highfives
"Don't worry DjFlex52, we all know Les is a paedophile* so it doesn't matter.
Please, just read that out loud and ponder the stupidity of posting that for a while.
"The number of weak namby pamby XBOTS in this forum is just staggeringly funny They can all go "Jump In' their collective MSanus and get the **** out of here. "
I was right. Oh well, it was a nice dream.
"Furthermore, it would be more surprising if the average video game journalist didn't show a bias towards 360 as the video game journalist is part of the target demographic of the system. This should be pretty obvious from Wii critical vs. market success."
The first part is very much true. The last line made me chuckle though. Obviously it's not that most wii games are shit is it? If anything, the wii has shown that good hardware sales are not in any way linked to good games. I mean, look at the Christmas line-up ffs! Obviously the wii has it's share of good games but your argument about the relation between the critical and market success is just bull.
"Like I said before (so you should have known better) you can't logically conclude from the data (or any metacritic sample for that matter) that EG are not biased towards 360. There's always the possibility that video game journalists in general tend to overrate 360 games and under-appreciate PS3 and Wii games (or overrate 360 and PS3 games and underrate Wii games or any other configuration). Not saying they do, not saying they don't, just saying your conclusion is unfounded."
Up to 2005, EG was about the biggest SDF outpost in europe (read some of the cringe worthy articles). They have balanced their views over in recent years but essentially they are still the same people.If personal preference would play parts, I most definitely doubt that it would sway in the 360's favour.
"Hey, Les, how's Maddie? "
WTF is that supposed to mean?! Seriously people! Get some fucking perspective, it's a game!
"Quite simply put, you are idiots. "
I think that quite simply put, the rest of the world thinks this of you.
"Wow, with all the XBOTS comming out the woodwork, this thread is disappearing rapidly as I hit IGNORE!!! "
/faceplam
"This thread is almost down to one page now! "
Me, myself and I!
===========
Seriously though people, it's not worth to hate things! Go play the games you love!
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Are you really that much of a cretin? Seriously? So you're pretending to have me on ignore, then commenting about me and wondering if I've taken offence to your insipidly boring amateur analysis and and your broken record-like fanboy rantings, and then you go on to ask me no less than four separate questions? What an absolute numpty you are (not to mention a paedophile).
Les, I know you're a bit 'slow' but the ignore button should be used to 'ignore' people. Not as some kind of childish 'nah ni nah ni nah nah, I can't hear you lulz" instrument of fuckwittery. What's the point of pretending to ignore some one when you're so desperate for their attention? You're so thick it's hilarious, "yeah, let me go and troll the 360 threads and then pretend to ignore anyone who calls me a cock". Great plan, MasterBrain.
Anyway, I live happily in the knowledge that everyone here thinks you're an absolute imbecile. Good day.
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I'd love that!
SHHHHHITTTTSTORM!!
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lolz Ow, you hurt me there! I'm obviously a cunt for putting a finger on your cuntish behaviour. Ow what will I do now?! Hedbog has me on ignore! My life is over! Oh cruel, cruel world! Why hast thy forsaken me!
Newsflash: between the two of us, you're the only one who was banned - several times - for being a cunt. Obviously this is all bias from EG, right? Tell me that I'm wrong.
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u r pathetic, go back to kindergarden!
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Much as I despise this kind of thread, I have to say that is the funniest retort of that type I have read in a fair old while
But I'm going now, before the rot sets in.
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Jesus wept man, why don't you give it a rest? You are an embarrasment.
Yeah, sure there are some 360 fans in this thread. What do you expect ? This thread relates to an exceptionally good (by all accounts) 360 game. How would you expect that your trolling would go down in this thread or any other Xbox thread for that matter?
And before you put me on ignore (as you did with Xerxes for what must be one of the most reasonable and fairminded posts in this thread), presumably for being an Xbot (your terminology), I'd just like to say that I am a PS3 owner.
FFS. Grow the fuck up.
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surely stand by your original arguement and have the dignity and self respect to actually do what you commit yourself to do!
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thing is, what better advert is there for Xbox than Arbiter and Hedbog....embedded paid bloggers couldn't work that kind of majic and these do it for free!
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@ Arbiter
At any point during these rants of yours, have you ever thought that perhaps the reason the PS3 games score less is because the 360 has the better exclusive games? I dunno, it's just a thought. All I know is I have one very dusty PS3, a totally over-used / almost abused 360 and a semi-dusty Wii having just completed Mario Galaxy.
Anyway, back to the topic in hand... Fable 2 10 / 10 - woohoo!
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trying my best to ignore the thread full of wankers...
my order for the collector's edition was posted by play today!! play always use pretty slow postage methods but i reckon it might just get here in time for the weekend. sweet!
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@SpaceMidget75 you're on ignore....to
@Arbiter also on ignore
this thread is a good one for the fanboy filter
on toipic:
i ordered fable2 from gamehubs, it got send out today
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Man, you must have a tough life then...
I argue because I love the intellectual stimulus of debate. A games site might not be the best suitable platform for that but what I like about this place is that at least the guests are varied. E.g. going to the forums of richarddawkins.net is no fun, pretty much everyone agrees.
If you weed out the weed with the ignore button you can have a remarkably good time around here.
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1. Not being able to bring in your character into a Co-Op game when playing on a friends sever, picking 'Henchmen' is not good enough.
2. 'Single' screen camera in Co-Op, even when your playing on Live....both players much stay on same screen.
Who the heck made these decisions.....shocking. Personally I'd have prefered being able to import my character into a Co-Op game and individual cameras per player on Live, alot more than a blooming Dog anyway!
Ik
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Man, you must have a tough life then...
ohhh, stewardess, bring me a sickbag
can you couple of homos please fuck off out of the Fable 2 review thread, it really isn't the place for you....see Ikari below you, raised a couple of actual genuine concerns about the game, that's how you do it, not directionless whinging and Arbiters poor attempts at maths (sample size of 20 - mmmm robust evidence)
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All I have to say is that data in itself proves nothing. Interpretation of data is where the magic happens.
I have to say, you highlight an interesting trend. But as has been referred to by ot6her posters, it could also be put down to coincidence, or indeed the 360 could just have better exclusive games overall.
The reference to gamerankings is interesting, but its not concrete as it presumes that no bias exists outside of EG. What if EG are on the level and a lot of other sites are bias? That would throw your gamerankings reference out of the window.
You do make some convincing points, but you cannot state any of it as fact as other perfectly plausible explanations (mentioned above) can also explain the same state of affairs equally well.
On another note, please can people stop saying who they have ignored.
It really is pompous in the extreme, as if anyone really gives a f*ck a) that they have been ignored or b) who else is ignoring who. To actually level "I have ignored you" at someone as an insult is actually pretty weird and says far more about the ignorer than the ignoree.
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in which of you are ignoring other and which of you are being ignored by others, and frankly I'm amazed any of you care either.
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Sample is probably too small to exclude coincidence I agree. But the 360 having 'better' exclusive games overall can never explain EG occasionally rating 360 games higher than their peers while they don't do the same for PS3 games. Unless you postulate EG as the truth with regards to rankings, ergo the others always being wrong.
"The reference to gamerankings is interesting, but its not concrete as it presumes that no bias exists outside of EG."
No it doesn't. It just compares EG's biased ratings with the ratings of other biased sources and therefore EG's bias variance as opposed to the average bias of the other sources can be measured.
"What if EG are on the level and a lot of other sites are bias? That would throw your gamerankings reference out of the window."
That would also be very unlikely.
Anyway, Arbiter's quick & dirty handywork probably won't survive scrutinous statistical analysis though it does point towards a rather obvious hypothesis: hardcore gamers that write reviews for other hardcore gamers tend to favour harcore games.
Maybe someone with SPSS or something and some free time might do a more thorough analysis. Could be fun.
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@Les & commenters who don't have me on ignore
Though I'm being ignored by Les, I would like to tell him that his argument still infers that EG is one reviewing entity and not different reviewers for different 360 games.
So I guess there is collusion between all EG reviewers to hike up 360 review scores compared to PS3 scores to defend his argument...o_0
edit: ++ @ kangarootoo's last paragraph
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@Arbiter
I agree with your first sentence. But it also doesn't prove it either.
So the point of discussion is relegated to PS3 & 360 fanboys taking the sides of their preferred console which then makes the discussion not so "legitimate".
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can you not just do nothing? no it seems you cannot,you go into reviews for exclusive games on a platform you clearly have massive hang ups about...and scream bias all day long, you clearly can't leave Xbox articles alone though because you're utterly fixated....spot me in the LBP thread...one comment, positive...you are just a sad whinger who wants to get his own way all the time, and thinks everyone should agree with your ill thought out comments
A small sample-size is better than making baseless statements
What i was saying (you calling people a moron is really odd considering you have the word assimilation skills of a lump of coal) is that by using such a useless sample you ARE making a baseless statement...are you unable to process plain english? it sure seems so..
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Wow, how mature. A homophobic remark. You must be popular on Live...
"not directionless whinging and Arbiters poor attempts at maths (sample size of 20 - mmmm robust evidence)"
Absolute sample size tells you nothing. It's about sample to group ratio. Please don't mingle in arguments you're too stupid to comprehend.
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Now you may disagree with that, and EG may deny it, but historically speaking it cannot be disproved. I supplied the data in good faith. "
All that cannot be disproved is that Eurogamer has never scored a (retail) PS3 exclusive at least 10% above the (Gamerankings) average. Everything else is your own supposition. Ultimately, the score is a measure of the reviewers own subjective level of enjoyment with a game, and grading a game more or less 'harshly' only entails changing the review scale itself, not the value of the experience as measured that scale.
So if, for example, a 10 for a PS3 title is worth more than a 10 for a 360 title, and so fewer PS3 titles get 10s then you can criticise the transparency/consistency of the scoring system, but not the actual verdict of the reviewer as reflected in the text of the review. Which turns your argument into a technical criticism of Eurogamer's review scale, rather than a criticism of reviewers' own assessments of a game.
The only way to disagree with reviewers own assessments is to claim that they weren't even using their own scoring system correctly and were essentially lying about how much they enjoyed the game. But is that not simply a claim that they're somehow 'biased'?
And how does this relate to the requirement that multi-platform games be excluded? I mean if only the PS3 version of a title is reviewed, and yet the game is given an above average score (as was the case in Eurogamer's import reviews of Dynasty Warriors 6, Dynasty Warriors: Gundam and Armored Core 4) why does this not count as an assessment of a PS3 title? Do you think that when a reviewer gets a PS3 game, he checks too see if it's an exclusive (or alternatively if it's being sold on PSN) before deciding to treat it 'harshly' (whatever that means)? And that he does this without displaying any 'bias' at all?
You seem content to present a list of scores, with the claim that there's some hidden meaning behind those scores, but refuse to elaborate on what that meaning is. It's hard to criticise a position when you don't know what the position is, and when it keeps changing:
"All that being said, the evidence certainly doesn't absolve this site from the claim that PS3 titles are scored more stringently than 360 ones. It's a legitimate point of discussion. "
If your claim is just that the evidence doesn't disprove your theory, then you're in the same position as someone affirming the possibility that we were all created by the flying spaghetti monster.
You've watered down your claim to the point where it's just: "there is some possibility I'm right". It's pretty hard to disagree with those sorts of statements (arguably, outside of logic nothing can be disproved), but I don't think they make particularly interesting discussion points.
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why bother, at this point seriously why, you're the kind of guys who would fuck a dead donkey...even if you have to dig it out of it's grave
An xbox 360 game got a 10, and you whinge for days..pathetic
Well spotted on my poor use of a word Arbiter, i'm sure you understood what i was saying fairly plainly though...you're a joke
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Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.
"You've watered down your claim to the point where it's just: "there is some possibility I'm right". It's pretty hard to disagree with those sorts of statements (arguably, outside of logic nothing can be disproved)"
This does make sense, though it's inside logic nothing can be disproved. Outside of logic there's no proof...
I seriously don't get the people that are offended/scared or whatever as soon as the word 'bias' is mentioned with regard to review scores. Probably something to do with insecurity, wanting to be affirmed in one's opinion by other sources or something. Nobody is without bias, let alone professional reviewers. If you like hardcore games you go to EG, their scores are more likely to reflect your own. If they didn't, they would lose you as their audience pretty soon and with that advertising revenue. If you like Wii games, EG is not very likely to be your best source, so go consult Official Nintendo Magazine. It's similar to the more respected newspapers likely to give top marks to art house movies while tabloids will get more excited about the next Rambo, Pirates of the Caribbian or whatever. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.
If this thread does show anything, it's once again that review scores are rather pointless.
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Take it one step at a time. 1.) The review score is just a measure of the level of enjoyment a reviewer derives from a game. 2.) In this sense to give too low a score is either: A.) to miscommunicate how much you enjoyed the game or B.) to give the game a 'low score' relative to a different rating system (for example, a 7 from Eurogamer is worth more than a 70% rating at other sites, so some of Eurogamers 7s may seem inappropriate, even though they're not really).
"This does make sense, though it's inside logic nothing can be disproved. Outside of logic there's no proof...
I mean logic in the narrowest sense: Given premise X, and argument Y, Z is necessarily true, i.e true by definition. Within that context, statements can be proven categorically true or false. In the real world however, all we can do is supply evidence for a particular claim, with the knowledge that fresh evidence may disprove our theory (see: the 'white swan' example: http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiabil...
"If you like hardcore games you go to EG, their scores are more likely to reflect your own. If they didn't, they would lose you as their audience pretty soon and with that advertising revenue. If you like Wii games, EG is not very likely to be your best source, so go consult Official Nintendo Magazine. It's similar to the more respected newspapers likely to give top marks to art house movies while tabloids will get more excited about the next Rambo, Pirates of the Caribbian or whatever. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. "
I would simply call that having a different perspective, though. There's nothing wrong with that as long as the perspective taken is coherent. Platform loyalty is fine as long as its just a reflection of the perceived quality differences between platforms: for example if you prefer 360 games because of the Live integration, then that's fine, even in a review as long as that's communicated. On the other hand if you give a 360 game a higher score simply because you like Microsoft or like the developer, that's different.
"If this thread does show anything, it's once again that review scores are rather pointless."
As a tool to show how much the reviewer enjoys or appreciates a title, they're fine: it's when they're taken as 'objective' measure of quality, that things go wrong.
"To be brutally honest my opinion is that this site has been less than even-handed with its coverage. That's an opinion, not a statement of fact."
But my point is that opinions require qualification in the same way any logical argument does. People can't agree or disagree with you, and you can't determine the validity of your own views unless you can articulate them. To say a game 'deserves' a certain score for example can mean a lot of different things: that the reviewer himself was mistaken in the grade he gave (according to his own scale), that the score was correct 'for him', but not for most of the fanbase, that the score was correct for him, but not for you, the reader.
Unless you specifically state which one of these things you mean, it's hard to see where you're coming from. From my perspective though, review scores are simply the personal judgements of individual reviewers: they're not meant to be aggregated and stuck into some 'meta score', and every score only exists within the context of the piece of text justifying it.
So if the Eurogamer reviewers that played LBP or Uncharted, or Resistance, didn't like the game enough to give a higher score, then no great injustice has been committed, and there's no need to look for alternative explanations. And if there is a need for an alternative explanation it should arise because you see some actual inconsistency not because, for example you wish certain PS3 games had scored higher.
And in that regard you have to start with the data, consider that several exclusive PSN games have been given 'above average' scores, along with PS3 only reviews of multiplatform titles, and ask where's the pattern? I don't see a pattern, or a casual explanation that would explain away the four 360 10/10s, and supply four PS3 titles that would/should have been given 10 (most of the disparity is due to those 10/10 scores).
But it seems what you're saying is you don't have a theory, only a perception, or 'feeling', which means there isn't really much to discuss in the first place.
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IMO there's a C.) also in that bias (conciously or not) actually determines how much one enjoys the game. As I understand your A.) the reviewer enjoys the game as a 7 but communicates a 6 or an 8. That's why I protested against "and grading a game more or less 'harshly' only entails changing the review scale itself, not the value of the experience as measured that scale."
"As a tool to show how much the reviewer enjoys or appreciates a title, they're fine: it's when they're taken as 'objective' measure of quality, that things go wrong."
The review text should be that tool. The score is a quick and very dirty shortcut with in general a short shelf life (e.g. look at scores within a generation: Scores for the initial batch of 'next-gen' games tend to be inflated).
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[link url=http://news.teamxbox.co m/xbox/17931/PlayStation-3-Mag-Fallout-3-Looks-Better-on-Xbo x-360/
]http://ne ws.teamxbox.com/xbox/17931/Play...[/link]
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I know i should have saved it for the Fallout 3 review. Oh well done is done.
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You never bring down any flames, no one ever gets really upset...they mainly just call you a cunt ad finitum, because you clearly are one
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take a look at yourself in the mirror sometime, the dull eyed fatboy looking back is a big man and he's in bad shape, both mental and physical
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Henchman is apparently based on the look of your character, so if yours has ginge hair and is evil it will be 'broadly similar'....not your exact character but the game's best guess
Not sure re magic & co
...Hoever i suspect it possibly is too early for actual game discussion as someone who'se brain is far too far gone is bound to come in and spout his brain sweage everywhere...cannot help himself
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Do you get to use spells and items your own character has accumulated?
Do you get to keep items as well as monies and XP?
Nope
Nope
Nope
Still fun though.
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There are some good arguments in favour of that, but movies on DVD sell a lot cheaper and cost more to produce yet still make a profit.
Bring the prices of games down to DVD level and I'll support methods to stop them being reused on other machines.
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I do so love it when people try to prove that reviews, which are opinion pieces, are biased. That level of conception that is lacking there is mind boggling.
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How do you work that out? A movie may cost more than a game to produce (though given the costs now invested in some games that is far from true across the board) but the movie should have already made its money back on its theatrical run. Any money then made through DVD sales is therefore extra. Actually producing the DVD cost little extra from producing the movie. If movies were produced for sale direct to DVD then that might be true but generally that's only true of Steven Seagal features. And they don't necessarily cost more than a game to produce. Even once you factor his food bill into it.
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I like the chaps that post essays on Fable getting a 10.
What is the motivation there? You disagree with the score? That is pretty sad. Can't you make one succinct post highlighting your opinion rather than a wall of egotistical and poorly constructed prose?
With the amount you seem to be posting Arbiter I would suggest taking a valium and having a wank, you seem to be getting a bit carried away boy.
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As for being a 'usual suspect' I'd just like to point out that I've never slagged off a PS3 game (I have complemented though), and it's the games that I'm interested in. The ONLY time you'll see me in a argument on here is to counter Arbiters constant accusations of bias (which I obviously don't agree with) and Blig just generally being a horrible little boy. That doesn't make me a fanboy as I personally couldn't give a shit what console I own as long as it plays the games I love at a price I can afford. This gen it happens to be the 360, DS & PSP - last gen it was the PS2, DC & GC.
Back on topic, as soon as I can afford this I'll be getting it. It seems to me that I get to play something that gives me a great world to play in like WoW without it being a bloody MMO (which I don't like anymore).
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Delicious money is delicious.
Like somebody else said, I liked EG a lot better when they went out killing hypes.
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MGS4 was overhyped and they killed it with good reason. Fable 2 isnt hyped nearly as much and it delivers on all the promises too.
So they still kill hypes.
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"How do you work that out? A movie may cost more than a game to produce (though given the costs now invested in some games that is far from true across the board) but the movie should have already made its money back on its theatrical run. Any money then made through DVD sales is therefore extra. Actually producing the DVD cost little extra from producing the movie. If movies were produced for sale direct to DVD then that might be true but generally that's only true of Steven Seagal features"
WTF ? What have theatrical performances got to do with the profitable home enterainment business?
DVD is still a profitable business, 7 billion in sales this year +8 million blu-ray, not quite the 50% DVD market Sony wanted
How do I work that out? WTF I looked at the stats.
Transfromers production budget $150 million, home sales $280 million
300 production budget $60 million , home sales $280 million
As for other arguments, I personally would buy a lot more games if they were cheaper, and shorter games would be more benificial to me, so long as they are still a rewarding experience. Slating a game because its only 10 hours gameplay is complete bollocks unless price is being brought into it, in which case it should be reviewd again in 6 months time.
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DVD is still a profitable business, 7 billion in sales this year +8 million blu-ray, not quite the 50% DVD market Sony wanted
How do I work that out? WTF I looked at the stats.
Transfromers production budget $150 million, home sales $280 million
300 production budget $60 million , home sales $280 million "
What on earth does that have to do with your previous statement which was as follows;
"There are some good arguments in favour of that, but movies on DVD sell a lot cheaper and cost more to produce yet still make a profit."
Once again, the cost to produce a DVD is NOT more than a game. The costs have already been born for its theatrical run. The cost incurred after that are minimal, merely producing and advertising the DVD.
So if you are trying to imply that games should cost less because DVDs do and yet cost more to make, it is based on a false premise.
And adding multiple WTFs to your statements don't make them more true.
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It's Lionhead's new game, it's great, and it's worthy of a bit of discussion
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What! No tearing whatsoever for me.
edit: If you find any reviews that mention this tearing you have been experiencing please let me know.
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You've totally fucking lost me mate.
The figures clearly show DVD would be profitable without theatres. Youve missed read me if you think I meant pressing and packaging DVDs cost a significant amount.
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So they still kill hypes.
Well that's true, but I still think it's fishy EG dishes out tens when getting the first exclusive, that's not the first time it happened. At first I didn't think much of it, in fact, the first thing I thought was zOMG didn't see that coming, must have this Christmas! But if genuine hype machine IGN gives it an 88, and known to be corrupt Gamespot an 85.. Well... Opinions differ of course.
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ect.
getting this tomorrow, going home and im going to jizz on the disc.
blah blah :@
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The current market for PC seems to be getting hit a bit by torrent sites though...i suspect it will come to PC but they probably won't be too bothered how quickly they do it..
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2nd impression (3-4 hrs of play) all of the above, but also: slow, potentially shallow, linear bite-sized chunks interspersed w/ long loading times, fast travel that excludes a perception of the geography as a whole, Sims-light content that really doesn't interest me much...
Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying this game, and may grow to love it. But it's definitely a game that takes its time unfolding, for better or for worse. Those of you convinced this is truly a 10/10 - how many hours did you play before the game really began to gel for you?
Glad I bought it, think it's beautiful, but haven't made up my mind yet. Will it be my favorite game ever (entirely possible) or will it be the next Bioshock - making an incredible first impression but ultimately a chore (also entirely possible.)
(And can we please discuss the game and leave the 360 bias nonsense for a while?)
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Moving right along
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Just like the original Fable, this is a game that's hugely likeable, but only if you put the effort in. Make no mistake, it's genuinely charming, but everything from unclear storytelling to rubbish mini-games to glitchy graphics to sluggish menus makes an appearance, and you've got to take it all with a smile.
EG 10/10 ?
So, EG does kiss Microsofts arse.
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how do you know which is the more accurate score?
I'm sure there are some issues with it as with all games, but there's also a lot of people wanting this to be bad, therefore gravitating to the lowest scores they can find
1 Up - 100
Fable 2 is filled with more great ideas than the last 10 years of "Final Fantasy" combined.
It really depends what you cherry pick...the overall avg seems to be coming in at 89% which is pretty darn good
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Namely I have just PS3 because of very bad 360 logistics in my land, and because a reliability of it, or better lack of it, is a fact.But despite that, it's on my wishlist, because of some exclusives, like Fable and some other games. I am very intrigued by the game, because I like such games, hell, I even like to play Oblivion very much.
Although this game is on my "would like to play it, but can't for now" list, regardless of rating, I must say, that I am totally surprised about high EG rating it received. Judging by the trailers and above all, other gaming sites reviews, I think this is no 10.
I was also surprised about Far Cry 2 review and rating on this site. Don't believe in conspiracy theories either, seeing Far Cry 2 banners all over this site. But I find also here great gap between multiple other reviews and review here.I personally think, that reviewer should posess enough knowledge and professionalism, that thiese two would not allow him, to judge a game solely by his personal preferences,but how the game reflects relatively against others. If a game is FPS, and I don't like the genre, should I dismiss it as bad?If I like to play Oblivion (with all the flaws, of which I am aware), and, oh my god, Assasin's creed, is it than a 10?
I liked the last one mentioned very much, and I still play it some time, but there is no way I would give a higher note as 7, the gaps of lost potentials being to big.
It was already noticed on this site, that EG is trying too hard to be different, sometime, the last example being LittleBigPlanet.
Even that I personally would and have already judged the game much more severe(my opinion being, that this is a wast and complicated level editor with playability for cretins, morons or retards, however you wanna call them), are professional media giving this game the higest notes, only EG isn't. And again we have the formula: (over)hyped game is coming out, lets wait on first few reviews and than be DIFFERENT. MGS4, anyone? I know, I know, it's a hard game, films and all, and not much fun for everyone, but it is a GREAT GAME, like some great films, over which you prefer some cheap action film sometimes (Couldn't play it myself for long either, but I got over Snake eater more than 5 times).
The frustrations which EG produces this way, than result in stupid fanwars, conspiracy theories, and aggression between gamers. EG gets its share of clicks, and all is well.
Wery cheap and morally questionable strategy, I think.
To you all, be aware of cheap manipulations and more open to other opinions, yes, to other consoles, even.
But I will still not touch a LittlebigPlanet with a pole or be seen in company of those who play it.
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The figures clearly show DVD would be profitable without theatres. Youve missed read me if you think I meant pressing and packaging DVDs cost a significant amount."
Perhaps it was because of this.
"There are some good arguments in favour of that, but movies on DVD sell a lot cheaper and COST MORE TO PRODUCE yet still make a profit."
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lower metacritic score than metal gear solid 4, and LBP
eurogamer biased? eurogamer lol!
If this is what you think of EG then why are you posting here? Wouldn't you be better off posting a PS3 site where everyone shares your views?
I really don't know why poeple still visit a site they hold in such low regard!
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I can't be arsed to read back the entire thread to see if anyone mentioned it, but can you actually kill a town guard? It seems a bit silly that you can't (at least, I spent a good twenty minutes whacking a guard and he didn't die) - which makes "being evil" a bit pointless because you'll always get pwned by a town guard. The bosses need to get some training off the invincible town guards,
other than that, gripes..
General floatiness of the big booted character - personal opinion but western character design is lame.
Graphics are nice.
I found some really odd collision problems, (like, right at the very start I couldn't walk into the "hero chamber" thing)
the menu's are Sssslllooowwww - And "digging" for treasure is a joke.
I could go on, but won't.
Thankfully, I didn't buy it (only because of the quantity of games coming out lately)
I'd give it an 8... (would probably grow to like it)
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If I were to round up all my complaints it would come down to a lack of cohesiveness. That's a very serious problem in an open-world RPG on this scale, and it applies to just about everything: The way the bits of geography are split up - with long, frequent load times - and are not complemented by effective maps, such that you always feel vaguely displaced. The way side quests will appear in your quest menu with obscure titles that don't seem to correspond with any conversations you've had, and indicate that you haven't yet discovered them when you try to fast-travel to them. (ie. "I have a quest I haven't encounted yet, whaaa?"
Even subtle things, like the way all sounds and music stop dead when you (frequently) have to go into the clunky old school menus to fish for a potion or whatever - this utterly breaks immersion. The fact that you can't compare your own equipment to equipment you're shopping for, and worse - you can't sell equipment you have equipped AND there is no way to un-equip a weapon. None of these are big problems on their own, but they begin to accumulate and grate on you and constantly remind you that you're playing an Xbox game. (It doesn't help that so much relies on the d-pad, which we all know sucks - but that's not Fable's fault...)
I still appreciate it. But I think history will reveal that it was over-rated immediately after release, as has been true of many of PM's games. Unless it gets much better, I'd call it a 7, maybe an 8 by virtue of scope and production, but I doubt I'll ever love this game. The fact is, the more I play it, the less impressed I am (the next-gen sheen wears off and it feels more and more like the original XBox version) and that's the wrong direction.
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Serious question for the rest of the people here... does anyone buy his excuse for coming here?
So his real reason is he comes here to pretend to be smart, getting into pointless debate after pointless debate(I wouldnt call them debates)...
"Ah! but is it though?... blah blah blah"(DAVID BRENT anyone? Just as cringe worthy to watch...)
Who are these people that he has interesting and insightfull debates with that dont degenerate into f***witery?(the other trolls? Oh right Smelly isnt a troll, ok.... NOT he might not be as dense as Hedbog or Apolol but his motives and predjudices are quite clear...) I havent seem them, has anyone else? I was under the impression most people find him an obnoxious, petty individual who is just to stubborn to admitt when he has been beaten(on and on and on) or had no point other than general hate of MS and the 360 to begin with.
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Anyway, I should be picking up my copy of Fable II tomorrow. Wasn't going to bother after Fable I (although I enjoyed it), but the review has gotten me interested.
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Anyway, been playing this all day, it's great but the single console co-op is a little dodgy, characters getting stuck and suchlike but nothing major or game breaking. I can understand why this game was given a 10/10 simply because of its charm, beauty and humour, it's genuinely a joyful experience to play.
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only thing is the camera in co op but tbh it's really the perfect game for solo play and the occasional chat with a friend when you see their orb about
great stuff
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Another kick in the nuts of ps3 imho - especially when you look at its RPG line up (lol).
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Bloody loving it so far though, one of the few RPGs I could actually get into, I guess like a poster above said it's almost like an 'RPG-lite, for dummies', but what the hell.
The big downer is that the Dog isn't more of a solid entity in the game world, he clips through things a lot, (At one point it was just literally his head poking out of a solid wall, the entire body was buried in it), and when you bare in mind the dog was a big talking point of the game before release it's all kind of dissapointing.
The sub menus could be slightly more intuitive too, but that doesn't bother me too much.
Ohh and tearing is most definitely there, not in the same league as something like Saints Row or Moto GP, but is noticeable if you pan the camera around your character in a detail filled area. Again, it's not troublesome enough to ruin the experience though.
Infact I'm going to get my ass back on it now whilst the missus is still in bed and not moaning
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First I bought a new house and proceeded to move my wife and child over there. Glitch kicked in and this counted as me having married a second time, in the menu it displayed me having two wives: Sally the Gypsy and Sally the Gypsy... yeah, great. Child then stopped responding to all outside influences and just stood in the corner of the garden as an immovable object. Then it locked up during a load and corrupted my save. Have had to start over after playing a good 10 hours.
I would suggest that people do not buy it until they fix it first, there are many claims of people getting various game ending glitches and/or very annoying bugs. I am probably shelving it until they sort out the issues first, I can't be arsed to play through it without the guarantee that it won't comletely fuck up again.
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In games like fable you play a role and everything shapes into that. In games like oblvion, you play a hack and slash with isolated story elements that really affect fuck all in the world or about you.
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The more I play, the more I also realise how clunky and sluggish the general control of the main character is and the battles are so bland/easy/uninteresting... I love the charm ,humour and lovely graphics of the game, it's definitely enchanting, and that's lovely (hence me wanting to play it through a second time) but it doesn't make up for the game being so broken (especially in co-op). In my previous post I said I thought this game was a solid 7/10. Now I'm not so sure. I would give it a 7 if it wasn't so glitchy, I actually don't think it's fair to score it in the state it's in though, it needs a serious patching imo and I hate the idea of patching console games, so I'm a little disappointed really. I guess I'll trade it in for Gears in a week or two...
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The hanging on scores dished out by EG is completely inane, not to mention the fact that someone's 10 is another man's 5.
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Only real problem I have is with online multi player.The multi player seems set up for local play, which is great, but when on line if the hero goes to the menu system the other player is left looking at a paused screen of the world. It would have been better if they could just see the heros menu screen, so that, when buying equipping or doing what ever the side kick character could have at least seen and commented on what was going on.
9/10
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The End.
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I bought the game without reading the reviews and played it happily without reading the manual. Yesterday I finished the Crucible bit, basically a multistage arena fight, and I was rather proud of myself having managed that without dying and with less than optimal equipment. During the match I was worried. What if I run out of potions? What if the latter stages bring out monsters that I can't shoot? It was exciting and really felt like running a gauntlet made to kill you. A desperate fight to the end.
Until today when I read the review and discovered I was actually faced with a challenge comparable to Second Life. Seriously, at least give us the option of dying. Real adventures need real challenges.
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I think the digging for treasure is ok but too frequent.
You have to forgive the loading times (its a system being pushed to its limits here) and i like the option of skipping the ardour of having to manually travel.
The dialogue "system" (read "Expressions"
All in all, i think the game is fantastic and it definitely FEELS like a 10/10.
I don't expect 10/10 games to be perfect and some game imperfections actually add character.
Fable 2 is a fantastic achievement
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How dod Eur360mer get it so wrong?
The usual suspects are praising it though.No surprise there.
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You seem obsessed with this Hedbog person, do you have a personal hatred for him?
Funny the XBOTS dont get banned though....
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@Hedbog
to be honest...it's possibly because they're not spending their time in PS3 threads constantly pissing people off....realise why you were banned and change your behaviour a little
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Go praise LBP, or Home or something....
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"You're all wrong! 360 is shit and MGS paid for all the critical acclaim they've recieved"
Well anyone who has bought a few from Microsoft Game Studios in recent years can tell you they have a deserved good reputation, for delivering quality titles at the very least... AAA classics at best. Im struggling to think of bad game theyve released even dating back to last gen... overhyped in some cases sure(like the infamous Brute Force but Sony have been more guilty of that this gen in particular and what publisher doesnt hype their games? Its their job... atleast MGS dont outright bullshit you and treat you like an idiot, you decide which games you buy... well unless you are someone like Apolol or Hedbog, in which case your platform holder decides everything for you) but there have been worse examples by the competition.
Im not sure if it will be a 10 for me but I'd be happy to be proved wrong, seems like most of the agreements with the score will come from people who where fans of the first game, no doubt there will be plenty to like about the game whether its your GOTY or not, so there shouldnt be much problem seeing why some might rate it so highly.
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I felt EXACTLY the same way, until about 6PM last night, when I was so bold as to press the power button. Lucky for me, I am JUST within warranty, and we were already considering a second XBox anyway.
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Also the art direction falls apart completely at the spire. And I thought the "comandant" might try to kill me by way of sheer boredom.
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10/10 well deserved for this masterpiece.
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That is comment number 666, it turns out. I'm just saying.
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Also, if you look around a bit (for instance here and there in the Fallout comments, or in the metacritic user reviews) you'll find that a few people do agree with me.
You might love it though!
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The funny thing is, I really liked the first game. To a point, you have to judge a game relative to the technology available at time of release. I thought Fable 1 was a real achievement for its time, but Fable 2 isn't really impressing me as standing out from its contemporaries. And in too many other ways, it's just annoying.
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Ending was very poor
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Not only is this the shortest RPG I have ever played, with a terrible central story and a finale which gives new meaning to the term 'anti-climax'(Where is the final boss fight? Lame beyond words.), but it has numerous technical hitches throughout, a deeply flawed gesture system and the melee combat plays identically to the awful Assassin's Creed.
How on Earth does something with such blatant flaws achieve a 'perfect score' when it very clearly fails to overcome it's many shortcomings to rise to greatness of any sort?
Too busy counting that fat Microsoft cash to worry about what the game was actually like, eh Eurogamer? Underhanded, deceitful twats.
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Quick you haven't posted a negative comment in an xbox 360 thread in over a day!!!!
I read somewhere that Bill Gates pays Eurogamer to touch PS3's in an inappropriate manner and this is why they underachieve in the multi-platform face offs!
I think you should look into this and expose Eurogamer for the bias PS3 fiddlers they really are!
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Overall i'd rate it at maybe 7/10.
It's also fairly short, but i'd say that's actually a good thing since if it were any longer i probably wouldn't have bothered to finish it, i was bored of it by the end.
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