In Theory: PlayStation 4 in 2012

By Richard Leadbetter Published 4 July, 2011

Can Sony's new console really launch next year?

DigiTimes is citing Taiwanese manufacturing sources that suggest that Sony is actively working on PlayStation 4 and that the new console is set to be released in 2012 with an initial shipment of "at least" 20 million consoles. Amazingly, the report suggests that manufacturing will begin this year.

Little is being given away on the make-up of the new machine other than the idea that it boasts body-tracking technology along the lines of Microsoft's Kinect for Xbox 360. The source says that the console is being assembled by Foxconn and Pegatron Technologies in Taiwan, and reckons that the current PS3 is also being handled by the same manufacturers.

It's an interesting story, but on the face of it, the basic notion of a true next-gen PlayStation releasing within 18 months is ludicrous. PlayStation 3 has only become profitable for Sony relatively recently and the platform holder will be hoping for a substantial period of time in which to recoup the enormous losses they have incurred this console generation. In the here and now, PlayStation 3 has yet to dip below £199, where we would expect sales volumes to increase significantly. Closing this window of opportunity prematurely doesn't really make sense from any kind of commercial perspective.

The 2012 launch date also seems unrealistic for other reasons too. The video games business is notoriously indiscreet. We've known about PSP2 and a core part of its technical make-up since July 2009, and the new handheld has still yet to ship. Nintendo's E3 reveal for Wii U was spoiled extensively by developers and publishers talking to the press about the platform holder's own presentations, and in the here and now, information is slowly starting to trickle out about Microsoft's new console, set to be released no sooner than 2013.

On the flip-side, we have heard absolutely nothing about the development of PlayStation 3's successor. There have been no off-the-record briefings to journos, nothing of note emanating from developer sources and the contacts we have that work directly on PlayStation technology in terms of devtools and background software are still working on PSVita and PS3. To the best of our knowledge, nothing is happening right now that could see a major new hardware launch next year, and the basic idea that Sony's core engineering team having enough bandwidth to look after the development of PS4 so quickly after the lengthy gestation period of PSVita seems unlikely.

What gives the DigiTimes article some shred of credibility is its hints on a Kinect style interface. We know for a fact that SCEA research and development teams have spent a great deal of time and effort devising its own interpretation of Microsoft's "natural user interface", and indeed, there is even a patent describing Sony's ideas on body tracking, where a PlayStation Move-style controller is married up to a floor-based ultrasonic projector that can track players in 3D space. The idea is to introduce the core functionality that Kinect possesses, but at the same time make use of the inherent advantages that a handheld controller offers.

The other aspect that makes the report a touch more believable is the nature of the source itself. The Far East manufacturing base has become a major source for eerily accurate tech-based rumour-mongering: we knew about iPhone 4 and iPad 2 ahead of their obsessively-guarded reveals owing to leaks from the manufacturing facilities themselves, and of course, who can forget the fact that the PS3 Slim was on sale in a Philippines marketplace months before it was officially released, and many weeks before it made its official debut at gamescom 2009? In short, the Far East has offered up so many strange-but-true stories that it is difficult to readily discount anything from "manufacturing sources" so quickly.

Epic Games' Unreal Engine 3-powered next-gen vision required three GTX580 graphics cards to execute in real-time. Could a 2012 console match these visuals?

The question of whether Sony could - in theory - launch a new console so quickly is an interesting topic in its own right. There have been murmurings that PlayStation 4 could simply be an evolution of the existing architecture. Developers are finally getting to grips with what makes PS3 special, they're embracing the power of the SPUs, so why not simply beef up Cell with, say, a dual core version of the main PPU processing core and dramatically increase the SPU count? Combine that with a significant RAM boost and an appropriately modern GPU and that would easily work as a fiercely powerful next-gen console.

It may sound simple enough, and it could cut-down the investment required in developing the new machine but at the same time it does dramatically over-simplify the challenges Sony faces in getting a new PlayStation out in the 2012 timeframe. Extensive SPU engineering has resulted in technically brilliant games like Uncharted 2, Killzone 3 and God of War III, but at the same time, the use of SPUs as parallel graphics processors in this age of cross-platform development has only really become popular owing to the comparative weakness of the RSX. Getting the graphics core right is a really significant challenge for Sony, and it's not going to be easy bearing in mind that Microsoft, with its DirectX 11 technology, is a key partner in defining the landscape of next-gen graphics rendering.

With Nintendo having laid out its next-gen plans, and Microsoft widely tipped to follow suit at next year's E3, it stands to reason that Sony is also devising its own hardware for the second HD console generation. A 2012 launch has some merit: in the Japanese market, it would be one-upping arch-rival Nintendo which is releasing Wii U in the same window, while Sony would have around a year's head-start over Microsoft in other territories in the next round of the console battle.

But when we have a situation where leading industry engineers such as John Carmack are openly questioning just how much the next-gen can offer in terms of an identifiable, worthwhile advantage over what we have now, it strongly suggests that the platform holders either need a new approach (as per Nintendo's tablet gambit) or else a technological leap that so large that it makes current generation games look old and obsolete, or better yet a combination of the two.

Getting the product right is the key to long-term success here, not necessarily launching first. Microsoft is taking its time in devising its own next-gen console, and the chances are that Sony will follow a similar strategy. While 2012 seems wildly optimistic for a full-on launch from either party, we should fully expect next year's E3 press conferences to be a whole lot more exciting than 2011's efforts...

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

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Comments (102) Latest comment 11 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • chaywa #1 11 months ago

    You'll be lucky to see the performance of 3 x 580s in a console by 2022, let alone 2012...

  • Benno #2 11 months ago

    I wonder if the playstation 4 will have cross game voice chat? been waiting about 5 years

  • fongy #3 11 months ago

    I think once games graphics get the level of their current cut-scenes and intros - then developers can start using their to imagine and create and not wrestle with the technology...

  • jonbwfc #4 11 months ago

    Oh dear lord. More vacuous speculation. Please stop it. Just stop it.

  • ubergine #5 11 months ago

    PS4 in 2012 is ridiculous, but a PS3-SP could be a surprise announcement, imagine it as though Kinect only being compatible with the 360s.

    In other news, I don't see how Carmack doesn't think higher res textures wouldn't be a boon to console graphics, even before any other benefits are considered. Looking at Oblivion now (on 360) it is revolting.
    Edited by ubergine at 04/07/11 @ 17:13

  • Timotei #6 11 months ago

    Nowt wrong with speculation.

  • jablonski #7 11 months ago

    Hahahaha, you actually spun an article out of a DigiTimes rumour?

    They are so (provenly) full of shit, you are embarrassing yourselves royally

  • Stompy #8 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 23:13:35 17-04-2012

  • anthonypappa #9 11 months ago

    beefed up ps3 architecture makes sense. it would keep costs down for everyone, and why not... they could make it as powerful as it needs to be. no sense it developing a new chip.

    we aren't in dire need of a graphical update, but sony won't want to be left behind again. the end of 2013 sounds more like it.

  • Moz #10 11 months ago

    @Chaywa:

    It would take less then the power of 3 580s to produce those visual on a dedicated platform, I'd expect a console release in 2012 to have graphics power on par if not slightly better then a single 580 and at some point in its life cycle manage visual have games with visual similar to those in EPICs tech demo.

  • dunbain #11 11 months ago

    I think some Taiwanese guy mistook a slimmed down or modified PS3 with perhaps added features -- maybe even a new line of Move motion control -- and decided to blab online about the fourth 'coming' of playstation.

    I mean, compared to a PS4, a 'PSOne' style PS3 would generate a ton more sales, imo. Even a 720 might have a hard time competing with ultra-power packed in a super-tiny package.

    Gotta remember, one of the Wii's features that made its success was its slim aesthetic that blended into the living room background. The whole, 'doesn't look like a game machine' is really powerful for the non-core crowd especially.

    And I gotta be honest, not just from a business perspective, do I ever want a PSOne3. *Drool* + *Slurp*

  • Whizzo #12 11 months ago

    Silly season isn't just for Fleet Street then.

  • evild_edd #13 11 months ago

    / Looks at the image on the EG homepage for this article

    Of all the things Sony could've nicked from Microsoft for its next home console, I must admit that I'm surprised they chose the RRoD....!

    ;0)

  • StooMonster #14 11 months ago

    With IBM killing off its Cell server line the only customer for these chips in now Sony with current PlayStation, the once hailed chip is at EoL. Therefore I don't think we'll see Cell in PlayStation 4, rather I think we'll see Sony use Cell's CPU architecture -- PowerPC -- which is also used by Microsoft in Xbox 360 (and likely their new console) and Nintendo in Wii (and Wii U) as the basis for their CPU, but in a more standard multi-core multi-threaded approach and less exotic version than the Cell.

    IBM are doing very cool things with the latest PowerPC cores and I think Sony might well buy into a more advanced version than the other two manufactures.

    To solve any backwards compatibly with Cell (if they decide such a thing is desirable) they could emulate the SPUs on new GPU hardware.

    I think all three new consoles will be more similar than previous ones.

  • Snufkin #15 11 months ago

    Interesting speculative assessment of these rumours, and I see nothing inherently wrong in that. However, the more of these sorts of articles I see, the more worried I become that the Big 3 will see them and interpret them as the consuming masses clamouring for a new generation, when in fact I think most gamers are pretty content with the current gen (except maybe Wii owners...). Why rush? PS3 in particular feels like it has a lot left to give, and Xbox still has the power to surprise sometimes. If MS and Sony get the required support behind them, Kinect and Move could keep their respective consoles ticking over for a few years at least.

    However, I can't deny that the idea of a beefed up PS3 with awesome graphical power leaves me a little dry in the mouth and moist in the pants....

  • telboy007 #16 11 months ago

    Can Sony truly afford to do this though?

  • adzengland #17 11 months ago

    In the words of David Brent. "And if my Auntie had a dick she'd be my Uncle"

    Good old speculation. And cor, that Unreal tech demo made my timbers shiver!

  • pokota #18 11 months ago

    It is interesting to speculate about the architecture of the PS4. As the article mentioned, right now the main limitations of the PS3 are the RSX and small amount of RAM. Cell is hard to program for, yes, but I'm sure tools have progressed to a level where programming is much easier than it was five years ago.

    Honestly, I think the PS4 could go with a much more mundane architecture, one that uses PowerPC instruction sets like the 360's Xenon and the Wii U's POWER7 (supposedly). Sony's real ace is World Wide Studios and the exclusives they produce.

  • RawNinjaKid #19 11 months ago

    The above video shows to me that "Next Gen" is not a big leap at all.
    Long way to go.

  • carrotcake #20 11 months ago

    "You'll be lucky to see the performance of 3 x 580s in a console by 2022, let alone 2012... "
    ah dude don't talk about a decade from now, that's a ridiculous amount of time in the tech world. compare what we had in 1995 with 2005. current nvidia cores aren't the be-all end-all, they will be rubbish in 2022..... talking about moore's law / exponential growth, if something gets twice as good each year, by the 10th year it is a thousand-fold increase in power compared to the 1st year. even when one kind of tech seems to plateau and hit a wall, along comes some paradigm shift to a different kind of tech that people would've never been able to predict years prior. 2022 will be a different world.

  • Timotei #21 11 months ago

    Epic comment fail.

  • Ahskay #22 11 months ago

    Seeing that explanation from DF it doesn't seem so strange. It would be an evolution of existing hardware and if it's backwards compatible with ps3 games then they would have something to take the wind out of the Ninty's sails. Announcement at E3 next year and with a release end 2012 in Japan, februari 2013 for US and April 2013 for Europe they're right on track imo.

    @Timotei; my dog jumped on my lap ;-)
    Edited by Ahskay at 04/07/11 @ 17:53

  • evnewell #23 11 months ago

    A few things then. Everyone seems properly skeptical and I agree with the skepticism. First rumors are rarely the best rumors. Sony can't afford to draw emphasis away from it's current console because it has only recently become profitable. 2012 doesn't seem to give nearly enough time to properly develop and market (not to mention launch lineup) a new console, and if they were already gearing up for that well, we'd know by now, wouldn't we?

    So the skepticism is warranted. And yet one thing still comes to mind. Can Sony afford to hold onto the PS3 era, while being equaled by Nintendo and surpassed by the nexbox? Can Sony afford not to release the PS4 ahead of the new MS console? No, they can't.

    If MS continues their ascent the way they have this generation, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Sony. If Sony wants to win back their losses to MS, they really have to release they new console first. They also have to make it Dev friendly. My two cents:

    "why not simply beef up Cell with, say, a dual core version of the main PPU processing core and dramatically increase the SPU count? Combine that with a significant RAM boost and an appropriately modern GPU and that would easily work as a fiercely powerful next-gen console."
    Edited by evnewell at 04/07/11 @ 17:54

  • coomber #24 11 months ago

    Sony 'lost' this gen because they took their time building a great piece of kit while Microsoft rushed out an inferior, cheaper machine and got it in the shops first. Considering recent changes at the top of Sony's management structure, it seems reasonable to me that PS4 will be arriving much quicker than expected. I hope that's not the case because I'd rather the next gen came later rather than sooner.

  • gruntboy #25 11 months ago

    "Can Sony's new console really launch next year?"

    Short answer to the subtext question would be "No" then.

  • layleeloo #26 11 months ago

    Said it before and I'll say it again. Who gives a shit until Sony say anything themselves. Im bored to death with unfounded speculation day after day. It's not news, if I could speculate it myself.

  • Miths #27 11 months ago

    I would love to see new consoles in 2012 (mainly interested in PS4, but assuming MS decide to add a Blu-ray drive and proper 3D support in their next console, I could certainly go for one of those as well).

    It's all well and fine that the PS3 and 360 are able to pull off some impressive visuals, but in nearly all cases they are doing so at 720p or less, and far too often at shaky framerates that are dipping well into the stuttering 20s on a frequent basis.
    Add 3D to the mix for the most graphics intensive games, and you end up with eg. a Killzone 3 that - despite it's spectacular 3D depth - looks far too much like a semi-ugly low resolution mess (the Uncharted 3 beta fares better in 3D, but still with some visible trade-offs, like more obvious aliasing).

  • Pulsar_t #28 11 months ago

    @RawNinjaKid
    I wasn't impressed by the demo either.

  • Vixremento #29 11 months ago

    While I love Mr. Carmack at the same time I have a little less respect for him with all his praise for handhelds (especially when we've yet to see anything significant released from his company for quite some time). I mean sure - he talks the talk...but seriously when was the last decent game released where he was involved (something that had real meat on the bones)? I love me some Doom (I was an absolute fan of the "mixed" reviews Doom 3) but at the same time I personally don't think of him as an "analyst" in the gaming market. Okay enough of that rant...

    At the same time I think a PS4 release next year is unlikely...they'd want to prep us all beforehand surely (or perhaps it's a clever plan to not affect their sales for the remainder of this year?) and make sure that we're all revved and ready to go to buy their next gen expensive (probably) console. To be honest the only one title I have on my must buy next list is the new SSX (perhaps Uncharted 3...but the MP aspect doesn't drive me like it drives others it seems) so a refresh is in order if they expect me to take notice of anything that isn't released on PC.

  • evnewell #30 11 months ago

    oh, one more thing. Team Trico must be kind of kicking themselves. I've never been a fan due to their unprofessional development times, but this is a little silly. A console exclusive that is struggling to reach completion within the lifespan of it's intended tech?

    Sure Nukem was in a different league, but this is an exclusive.

  • StooMonster #31 11 months ago

    coomber: Sony 'lost' this gen because they took their time building a great piece of kit while Microsoft rushed out an inferior, cheaper machine and got it in the shops first.

    Sony were due to launch at the same time as Microsoft, but the unforeseen lack of blue lasers in the global market (it was also the same launch time as Blu-ray and HD-DVD players) meant they couldn't get enough Blu-ray drives and had to delay a year while they built up enough inventory to launch the console.

  • BobbyDeNiro #32 11 months ago

    Wouldn't surprise me if this film is Epic's next gen game. I remember when they were showing Unreal engine tech demos for the current gen and a brumak from Gears was used

  • Doctor_What #33 11 months ago

    I'd just be pleased with 720p at 60fps from all games. 1080p would be nice but it's not such a big jump up from 720 as it is from 720 from 480. I just want a good solid framerate from everything next gen.

    Speaking as a developer, the biggest win would be a big boost in RAM. We don't want anything complicated or too new - the same as the PS3 architecture but with more capacity (especially the RAM) would be great for us.

  • Ged42 #34 11 months ago

    I think a big problem for the next generation of consoles will be keeping the consoles cool. The RROD/YLOD have been a major issue for MS and Sony, I wonder how they will cool the no doubt far more powerful processors without it sounding like you've got a Harrier JumpJet in the room.

  • thomaspower0 #35 11 months ago

    My god, that's real time? Holy shit. Well, that's probably a 4000 dollar PC, so probably a 4000 dollar playstation too.

  • thomaspower0 #36 11 months ago

    My god, that's real time? Holy shit. Well, that's probably a 4000 dollar PC, so probably a 4000 dollar playstation too.

  • Flipper79 #37 11 months ago

    '...information is slowly starting to trickle out about Microsoft's new console, set to be released no sooner than 2013. On the flip-side, we have heard absolutely nothing about the development of PlayStation 3's successor.'

    Does that not go completely against your argument? The 'information' about the 'new xbox console' is no less speculative than what has been suggested about the new PS.

    While I do think this is BS I could also see the sense in releasing a new console. Since the price point would likely be considerably higher than the current price of a PS3, and since the PS3 is still more than viable as current gen, it could allow a smoother transition between consoles and allow the developers more time with the hardware before it had a mass market. It makes more sense than with any other previous gen because the improvements aren't going to be as visual as before being more performance based, so the 2 could coexist pretty well.

  • Cjail #38 11 months ago

    If I were Sony I would wait for Microsoft console to show up at E3 to see if their machine can surpass it, then announce PS4: I don't wont Sony to deliver a lesser console on market because they are hasty!
    Anyway IF this is true Nintendo is screwed nice and easy!

    P.S.
    Who else thinks that they should announce the hypothetical new consoles even outside conferences, expos, game shows, etc...
    Edited by Cjail at 04/07/11 @ 19:12

  • Sid-Nice #39 11 months ago

    Waits for DigitalFoundry's article "Let's take a look inside The Wii U, Xbox Next and the PS4."

  • Red-Moose #40 11 months ago

    It's obvious really. 75 million PSN credit card numbers get stolen and a few weeks later a new PS4 is being built.

  • chaywa #41 11 months ago

    @Moz

    A single 580 is considered high end and rather expensive, costing over £300 itself for consumer purchase. Now I know with a bulk order the per unit cost would fall dramatically but it would be too risky for any of the major companies to have hardware with equipment THAT expensive in it. Sapphire released a revised version of the 5850 for around a hundred quid a few months ago, so if a new console was launched next year, then I'd expect something around about the 5830 mark (cheaper and fewer RoPS) to be in the included hardware, which even on a dedicated platform would hardly match the potential of a 580.

  • Grayvern #42 11 months ago

    Surely the harbinger of the Death of the PS3 will be that of the PS2 the release of a Persona game, but seriously isn't more honest speculation a hardware revision bundled with move.

    Besides that after having built my PC I'm inclined to believe that sony/ microsoft would be insane not to just simply stick a 560ti in their next console, enough power to finally deliver 1080/60p.

    The thing I'm most interested in isn't power but how standard the architecture is, how easy it is for developers to work with, looking back at the PS2 after using an emulator to play my old games in 1080p I was most struck by how much originality was killed of by the PS3 and how much was engendered by the PS2 which was the least powerful of the last 3 consoles.

  • RodHull #43 11 months ago

    PS4 with Kinect style gumpf in 2012? Very doubtful. PS3 Slimmer with built in Eye? Mebbee.

  • MrTeatime #44 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:16 09-05-2012

  • Tonka #45 11 months ago

    What a load of FUD

  • Tonka #46 11 months ago

    What a load of FUD

  • Xardan #47 11 months ago

    I hope not for developers sakes. Its taken them this long to get to grips with the PS3 and its crappy coding software.

  • WJF #48 11 months ago

    Bejesus - it's a Digitimes rumour! It's complete bullshit as with all of their rumours

    "Hey, look, some hit-hungry Tawainese site just did one on their pages again in the hope naive and equally hit-hungry websites link to them! WHEEL OUT THE FEATURE-BOT 3000!"

  • Recarnate #49 11 months ago

    TBH I cant wait for E3 2012. I hope MS shows a new XBOX that's at least 10x stronger then the 2005 X360 and a Major D-Pad improvement.

  • Alestes #50 11 months ago

    I don't think it will be a PS4 next year, but a PS3 slim slim with a noticeable price drop.

  • smelly #51 11 months ago

    >Oh dear lord. More vacuous speculation.

    At least it's not as bad as the hilarious people who think the Wii-U is going to run on DirectX!


    EDIT: 2 negatives! Must be from people who actually genuinely think nintendo is going to pay microsoft for the use of DX.. and that microsoft will let them!!!!
    Edited by smelly at 04/07/11 @ 21:22

  • smelly #52 11 months ago

    >least 10x stronger then the 2005 X360

    What does that even mean?!?

  • wizlon #53 11 months ago

    Whether this is true or not, I'm not interested. I'm a fairly hardcore gamer and just don't feel the need for a new system yet, the PS3 and 360 are pushing enough graphics and have enough features. As for a Kinect style interface, well, i'm yet to see anything for Kinect that would make me buy it so..... not interested.

  • Recarnate #54 11 months ago

    @smelly - By 2005 I really mean old. By old i really mean ancient. 6 year old tech is like 12 years IRL.

  • natureboy #55 11 months ago

    I don't think so. Just rumours. If not, we would have had images and leaks by know

  • Mister-Wario #56 11 months ago

    Even if a PS4 is coming out I wouldn't buy it for a few years, if at all. I have a massive backlog of games across both Wii and PS3 (and some on 360 too- eek!) so the last thing I need is more games. And besides, there's little in the way of new releases to excite me right now. Sony's E3 showing I found incredibly boring except for Sly Racoon and Bioshock: really, all the rest are sequels to violent shooter-type games which I only really like in small doses. Both the 3DS and PSV's lineups consist almost entirely of sequels to earlier works: we need more games like Sound Shapes, or at least I do.

  • MaxiSleep #57 11 months ago

    Do find the "current tech is enough" comments quite depressing. New hardware = good thing.

    My guess is they have an 8 core arm box with a good (say 5750 or so) class gpu and plenty of ram ready to go based on the psp2 hardware. Now that nintendo has played is underwhelming hand I am sure sony sense that an early move to market will knacker nintendo and scare microsoft.

  • bluetoothion #58 11 months ago

    Really about this Unreal tech demo even if it is rendered real time there is nothing in it about AI or Physics or some sort of game play esque. so 3 580s are bollock claims as well if you ask me... i might as well watch a transformers or any pixar movie.
    stop overrating things puuuulease.

  • DiamondIce #59 11 months ago

    @MaxiSleep

    My definition of depressing must be different to yours.

    I am happy with the current technology. My favourite games this generation haven't been hampered by the technology in any way that is big enough for me to give a damn about.

  • mbsfaridi #60 11 months ago

    WTF 3 580 gtx to run the new unreal engine that's sick

  • mbsfaridi #61 11 months ago

    WTF! three 580 gtx to run the new unreal 3 engine that's sick

  • customfirmware #62 11 months ago

    maybe this is why media molecule is moving on to another game, santa monica studios also???. but to be honest i'm happy with the playstation 3 at the moment, although i'm all for new technology so i dont mind what sony releases if i dont want it i'm not going to buy it, and if it's something that appeals to me i'm going to buy it.

  • Dogs-in-Hats #63 11 months ago

    I change of tact by Sony would be a good move.

  • Moonprince #64 11 months ago

    Would be funny...

    PSV + PS4 would likely be a better more power combo than wiiu and Kinect + Move controller would be a better fit than anything MS has. Would be many fanboy rage / tears; worth it just for those.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #65 11 months ago

    I don't think it will be a PS4 next year, but a PS3 slim slim with a noticeable price drop.

    Hmmm.... If this story were to read "Sony is actively working on a third model of PlayStation 3 and that the new console is set to be released in 2012 with an initial shipment of "at least" 20 million consoles", then it would be perfectly believable. Especially if the PS3-even-slimmer is due to herald a price drop to £100 territory to drive those sales. PS3 slim did arrive uncharacteristically early in PS3's lifecycle.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #66 11 months ago

    At least it's not as bad as the hilarious people who think the Wii-U is going to run on DirectX!

    Nobody thought Wii U would use DirectX, they were just using it as a mark of graphics card technology progress. What they meant was the full OpenGL 4 feature set, but that's not as widely publicised as DirectX. For example, Epic talk about DX11 technology for the demo videoed above.

  • alcides #67 11 months ago

    "The Far East manufacturing base has become a major source for eerily accurate tech-based rumour-mongering: we knew about iPhone 4 and iPad 2 ahead of their obsessively-guarded reveals owing to leaks from the manufacturing facilities themselves"

    and the drunk guy in that bar

  • Lucodeath #68 11 months ago

    Extensive SPU engineering has resulted in technically brilliant games

    720p is not technically brilliant although they are good games.

  • Collymilad #69 11 months ago

    Exciting!

  • Collymilad #70 11 months ago

    @coomber

    Really? If that was true the 360 would have died because people would have stopped buying it, the problems were widely publicised. The fact is it kept selling because from 2005-2008ish it was a far better console than the PS3 (now I'd say they are about even, depending on which exclusives you like), which only had a few stand-out games and inferior versions of multiplatform games.

  • NegativeZero #71 11 months ago

    I bet this will turn out to be that new PS3 SKU that we already know is coming out starting this month, with the new 40nm RSX.

  • cjs #72 11 months ago

    I've wondered for a while if it would be worth making a "PS3+" that's basically just a PS3 with more of everything: a two-core (four-thread) PPE, 15 SPUs instead of 7, 1 GB of RAM, and a better (but still backward-compatible) GPU. The idea would be to have a system fully compatible with the PS3, but have enough extra capability that various cool new features could be added to the OS (cross-game chat, voice recognition, etc. etc.) and developers could easily produce a version of a PS3 game that would take advantage of the extra power (by providing better textures, resolution, frame rate, anti-aliasing, more features, etc.). For this to work, of course, the cost of making two versions would have to be as low as possible.

    Since Blu-rays are large, and games would share a lot of common code anyway, both the PS3 and PS3+ versions of the game could be put on the same disc, allowing those who don't find it worthwhile to upgrade immediately to build a games library that will show instant improvement if and when they upgrade later.

    This would be sort of a gradual bringing-in of the next generation; by co-existing with the current generation it would give Sony both continued access to a more mainstream market where low price is important and create and own the high-end console market (at least until the next Xbox comes out).

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #73 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:16 09-05-2012

  • smelly #74 11 months ago

    As someone who owns a 360 and wii.. and no ps3.. If i had the choice - i'd MUCH prefer a ps3 to a 360.

    The graphics snobs amongst you who jerk off over paused frames in digital foundry articles which show that side by side comparisions show the ps3 to look slightly worse if you look at the pixels zoomed in, etc - will scoff at that.

    But look at the GAMES.. All the decent 360 games are also on ps3.. but the ps3 has FAR FAR more REALLY REALLY good exclusives. The 360 on the other hand.. has halo.. And no amount of fanboy ranting will ever convince me that halo isnt a bag of overrated shite which is INCREDIBLY mediocre when compared to the far superior fps games which came before it (such as half life 2)

    (I've just upset a lot of people here havent i? Sorry!)

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #75 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:16 09-05-2012

  • MaxiSleep #76 11 months ago

    @DiamondIce

    How do you know it hasnt't?

    I presume you dont have a gaming pc, when you look at the difference 60hz 4xaa and 1080p makes to a driving or shooting game its night and day.

  • jarek98 #77 11 months ago

    So probably there will be just a new version of PS3. I'm still waiting for "really slim" model to replace my "fat".

  • Buran #78 11 months ago

    Man, Frostbite 2.0 truly wipes the floor with the Samaritan Tech demo from Epic. 64 players in huge landscapes with fully destructible environments powered in a smooth framerrate by a single GTX 580 vs barely 30 fps with a tri-SLI GTX 580 to render a scripted sequence in a tiny map with a half dozen characters surrounded by adamantium assets. And people using that demo as a tech demo exhibition... What a joke!

  • StooMonster #79 11 months ago

    @cjs

    Sega 32X waves "hello" to your idea.

    Fragmenting the user base never works, very simple business economics mean that you develop for the largest market; so if 10% of customers have a PS3+ and 90% have a PS3 then it is unlikely there would be any PS3+ features developed, there would be no profit in it and only cost.

  • Geordiemp #80 11 months ago

    @Benno.

    I play 360 mostly COD multiplayer, and X game chat is just useless. Crap, rubbish,

    I have Astro headset and mix amp, If in a party I turn down team mates to as low as possible, most you cannot hear clearly due to crap 360 headsets. I want to hear enemies direction and movement not crackles.

    Last thing I want is to listen to crackles and noise from someone playing another game.

    PS3 online is just fine, dont change it. I pay for live but only cos I got both machines, why miss out on games ?

    A typical 360 fan boy comment, if you played allot of multiplayer and were any good at it, you would agre x party chat is useless.
    Edited by Geordiemp at 05/07/11 @ 11:33

  • Geordiemp #81 11 months ago

    PS+ or 360+

    I would buy - and it would make sense.

    Many PC games allow you to select 720p or 1080p, and the game runs at 30 or 60 or higher FPS depending on your set up.

    Wouldn't it be great to have a 360+ or PS+, and play games on PSN or LIVE with 1080P and 60n FPS and no tearing ?

    The PC versions can do this many a time, and devs would just put an option in the set up screen for performance...

  • Uncompetative #82 11 months ago

    I want a console with a 1TB HDD and digital distribution. I am tired of swapping discs just to prove I have legitimately installed them and would download all my games from the Xbox LIVE Marketplace if I had the room for them and I wasn't forced to wait for their release - presumably, so GAME didn't lose sales.

    I'm not concerned about second-hand resale. GAME pays next to nothing for a trade-in and gives scratched games in return with its daft policy of removing all games from their boxes and then letting idiot shop assistants "spiral" the disk around onto the nub, buggering up the directory in the process. Every game I ever traded in I found I wanted to play for nostalgic reasons later, it just was easier to keep everything.

    This console would let you pause a game at any point, exit to the jukebox-style interface and resume any other. Why can iOS do this, but we are all stuck in the dark ages of spatially-located Save points and the complexities of file-management. All I am asking for is the convenience to jump in and out of games - and this applies to multiplayer too. Gauntlet did this in the arcade, but it is rare to allow people to join a battle late (and assume the role held by a bot), or drop out (and have a bot mimic their demonstrable skill to some degree - i.e. accurate fire will level-up that bot either until the end of that game or its (re)possession by a player). I'm not suggesting multiple quicksave slots that could be abused to make the game much easier, just one to allow pause at any time and switch to resume another, later pause that and resume the first.

    Crytek said consoles needed a lot more RAM. Which is relatively cheap.

    I also don't want to give up on the gamepad - you could move the face buttons underneath and have two sticks on the right to support 3rd / 1st person viewpoints implicitly as the camera would "be inside the avatar's head" of the "camera stick" if you were to use the 1st person look stick as its springs would automatically centre it for you. Hence a move towards general layouts for all genres, rather than entirely dissimilar layouts for every game.

    I'm not sold on motion control tech as the gestures seem imprecise and inarticulate, but I like the look of the TrackerIR 5 headset on the PC being used with ARMA II.

    I would rather have the HDD used to support persistent worlds and complex non-avatar focused NPC simulation than go nuts on flashier graphics - after all, AAA budgets are already maxed out supporting the current generation's requirements.

  • cjs #83 11 months ago

    @StooMonster: I agree that my idea is risky, but I think it's not as quite as far-fetched as you might think.

    First, I don't think the comparison with the Sega 32X is valid. The 32X was much more so a separate platform: you couldn't buy a 32X game and play it on a standard console (albeit with reduced beauty and functionality). With my proposal, you'd produce only one disc, and use it in either a PS3 or PS+ as you wished.

    Second--and this is very different from the state of the world in the 32X days--developers have gone multiplatform for many games already: studios regularly produce three or four versions of many games (PC, PS3, X360 and sometimes Wii as well--soon to be replaced far more frequently by WiiU.) Thus, the infrastructure for doing multiple versions from a single set of base content is already there.

    The real question comes down to just how much extra work it would be to add a PS3+ version to the PC/PS3/X360/WiiU versions already being produced. That's certainly open to debate, but given how much PS3 and PC work could be re-used for the PS3+ version, it's not too much of a stretch to think that it might add only 10-15% to the total cost of producing the game. One of the key factors here would be the PS3+ GPU and how compatible it would be with the PS3 GPU while still being significantly more powerful. But even there, developers are already producing versions for a number of different GPUs anyway.

    Clearly there's a market for this, as we've seen others on this thread (hi, Geordiemp!) besides me who would buy such a thing. That's not to say it's a big enough market, though; to know more about that would require market research that I don't have.

  • geeza2020 #84 11 months ago

    lets all close our eyes and imagine products we would like to buy!!

    oooooo I dont own that yet...... Wow check out the grafix on that beast...... OMG PS4 gives blowjobs!.....


    its fun to pretend :)

    (current gens got legs yet, new console gen can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.)

  • rickimalone #85 11 months ago

    @Chaywa

    "You'll be lucky to see the performance of 3 x 580s in a console by 2022, let alone 2012... "

    Rubbish, when the PS3 was announced the 6800 Ultra was Nvidia's highest performing GPU. I'm pretty sure that the PS3 outperforms 2nr 6800 Ultras and thereby it's not unreasonable to assume the same order of magnitude of performance will be delivered in Sony's next console..

  • BonzoBanana #86 11 months ago

    I really hope Sony forget about the Cell processor. Its powerful but needs heavy optimisation and thats time better spent designing games rather than trying to get the best out of hardware.

    I'd love to see a ps4 with a top end powervr chipset perhaps one of the new models that will use raytracing.

    [link url=http://caustic.com/gallery_images.php
    ]http://caustic.com/gallery_images.php
    [/link]

  • vizzini #87 11 months ago

    StooMonster: @ cjs

    Sega 32X waves "hello" to your idea.

    Fragmenting the user base never works, very simple business economics mean that you develop for the largest market; so if 10% of customers have a PS3+ and 90% have a PS3 then it is unlikely there would be any PS3+ features developed, there would be no profit in it and only cost.

    At the time of the 32X CPU frequency scaling and multi media instruction sets and PC capabilities(single sided CD-ROM ;)) were undergoing a massive change.

    Whereas today, we have a baseline user understanding and computing experience(email, browsing, DVD playback, flash games and Half life 2, picture/video editing, Office productivity suites, ripping/burning music) on a Single core x86 chipset with a CPU frequency below 3.5GHz with a shader capable GPU.

    And we also have well established programming middleware that scales from single core to multicore(OpenCL), and shader programmability that enumerates to being fully GPU compute capable with OpenCL.

    So it is scalability now that includes everyone, just like DVD-video works on a 1x speed player or 48x speed, it is not fragmentation like it was before.

    Not only that, we have at least 50Million tech savy console consumers as a by-product of Playstation 1 and Playstation 2's success and is growing via Wii/DS/PSP/iPod/iPhone successes which was previously a huge customer communication problem in the days of the 32x.

    The Sony Zego already existed at the PS3s launch and was sold by the Sony Pro AV division for DSP and contained 2GB of Ram, 2x Cell Broadband Engines CPUs and 128bit floating formats programmable Nvidia GPU (iirc), so it is not like a Playstation 3 X(as I would call it, with 3X Cells BE and 1.5GB ram) wouldn't be difficult to make; scalable to program for, and desirable to anyone that wants a little bit more from their PS3 in framerate/textures/aliasing, 3D resolution when 4k or 8k TVs arrive.

    But the real benefit of a PS3 X for Sony(Toshiba & IBM) would actually be to accelerate the fabrication and sales of Cell BE chips, and there by reduce their cost, reduce their size and electrical needs (and thermal output), so that when PS4 did arrive, they could realistically afford to put 8-16 in the console and maybe make it suitable for real-time photon/ray tracing games, that might be the required delta.

  • peeps #88 11 months ago

    I'm gonna call this now,

    xbox 720 for 2013
    PS4 for 2014

  • Ka-blamo #89 11 months ago

    Tearing is here to stay!

  • 43n1m4 #90 11 months ago

    I don't think it's a coincidence that we heard the PS4 rumour so soon after the NextBox one. Its a matter of creating expectations and brand awareness. 2013 looks to be a release year for Sony and MS consoles.

  • smelly #91 11 months ago

    @Biker_Bob_1971: Im almost tempted to buy a ps3 to play shadow of the colussus alone...

    See nintendo and sony both make games.. Msoft rely on 3rd parties and advertising (!??!) to sell their machines.

    I've had ELEVEN replacements of my 360.. I definitely wont be touching the next msoft console with a barge pole. But then i find fps games boring and repetitive - so maybe the 360 wasnt the best machine for me?

  • teabagger #92 11 months ago

    "I think once games graphics get the level of their current cut-scenes and intros - then developers can start using their to imagine and create and not wrestle with the technology..."

    Not really, it just gives us a load of different early implementations of new technology to wrestle with!
    Edited by teabagger at 05/07/11 @ 15:49

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #93 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:16 09-05-2012

  • GI-Joel #94 11 months ago

    You have 20 seconds to comply your cigarette..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-yvmuGSQJ8 my guess is what happens to ED209 is what will happen to PS4 ;)
    Edited by GI-Joel at 05/07/11 @ 19:50

  • Tiberius_Gracchus #95 11 months ago

    " Well, been saying 2013/2014 timeframe at the earliest for a number of years now. I think we can all agree that 2012 isn't going to get the PS4.Of course the BD will be faster, that's a given, more importantly it support higher density BDs 100-200MB disks (BDXL)Solid State HDD is a maybe at best. I think they'd go w/ a standard HDD for the mass media and onboard Flash memory (which a SSD is just Flash memory w/ hodge podge glue logic for SATA access) for core game loads. They could toss in 64GB of Flash and a 1-2TB HDD for signifcantly less than the price of what a 256GB SSD would be, and 256GB SSD would be very undersized (thinking of 2013/2014 timeframe for prices.)Not just Bluetooth but support for more profiles such as A2DP for in game audio distribution and more.Not every game needs to be PS Move Compatible, nor ever Game needs to be DS Controller compatible, but they should ship with all systems.The Camera should be upgraded to an HD Camera at a minimum (dual camera's for stereoscopic images would be better.)Improved graphics engine w/ all games supporting 1080p & 720p w/o GPU autoscaling (can autoscale down to 480)PS3 BC nativeRemote Play w/ PSVitaFor the love of god have a minimum of 4 USB ports (2 in back and 2 in front) - USB 3.0 for that matter.802.11N is a forgone conclusion but we'll keep it on the list. Tag on 1GEthernet port as well.What would be really neat is if they could get the PSVita to work as a controller similar to the Wii U controller. Now that would be kickarse IMO. People will call it a rip, but I don't mind. Or simply make an optional controller that is straight up like the Wii U - mote w/ DS type layout of course."
    Fair enough??

  • sfp_noodle #96 11 months ago

    @smelly and biker_bob

    Whilst the 360 and PS3 have certainly had their problems, I'm calling MAJOR BULLSHIT on your failure numbers. ELEVEN failed 360s and SEVEN failed PS3s? Really guys!? If you want to emphasise your point fair enough, but at least make them realistic. I don't care how much bad luck you have, NO-ONE is that unlucky. All your statements show is that your talking utter crap or your just a bit dim in continuously buying the same console over and over when it keeps failing on you.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #97 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • Marshall2008 #98 11 months ago

    Easy to ship a PS4. Keep the same CPU upgrade the graphics slightly but stick with nvidia and add a bit more RAM.

    So, fully compatible with the PS3 but can boot graphics on PS4 titles. They could ship at the same price as the current hardware.

    Downsides? Microsoft release a new console with actual next gen graphics and spec 6 months later.

  • BamBamox #99 11 months ago

    Theres just no way. The PS3 is just now starting to hit some of its potential. It would be way to stupid to release a new console this early.

  • DAN.E.B #100 11 months ago

    If MS unveil the new xbox at e3 2012 it will be out by christmas 2012

  • bluetoothion #101 11 months ago

    While i think that 360 has slowed down a lot in game production and Wii U is remarkable in its own manner but unremarkable way to catch the last train wagon to the semi HD era it would be weird for Sony being the last of the bunch to have launched a console to follow ( and would surely hurt) any rushing strategy even if rivals do produce something worthwhile.

    allow me to be bitter... MS got away with killing her first box in 4 years ignoring every fan and consumer thinking to invest in a home console and ''forced'' us to buy the new one which was half the machine Elite is. MS practically forced us to buy 3 consoles for them to get it right.... ( i m surprised people ignore this fact )
    Had it not been for the hack and the brand/financial damage... that route would be open for sony too and an early PS4 ( probably easter 2013 though ) wouldn't be too suprising to show up on the shelves, now imo it seems far fetched but you can never know.

  • hesido #102 11 months ago

    There are lots of ps2's still being sold, Sony could start selling ps4's at 499-599 usd, and keep selling ps3's at the same price or at 199. There's still life and profitability in PS3, and PS4 wouldn't necessariliy kill that profitability. An early PS4 could let Sony achieve market dominance, if it plays its cards well.